NOS Anti-Lag | How it works on a 800HP Hill Climb Car On Pikes Peak [TECH TOUR]
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- čas přidán 11. 02. 2018
- This 800HP & sub 1000kg VR38 powered Pike Peak hill climb car suffered from turbo lag at last years race, so owner and driver Tony Quinn of Highlands Motorsport Park got Andre on the case to fix it.
Despite the smaller size of the twin Garrett GT30 based turbos the car runs, turbo lag was a prevalent at Pikes Peak in the slow speed sections of the run due to the ‘extreme’ altitude. To combat this we've installed a NOS Cheater system which is controlled by both the MoTeC ECU and C125 dash.
The MoTeC C125 dash monitors both manifold and boost pressures and triggers a dry injection of nitrous once the car has over 90% throttle and at least 3500 RPMS. Using nitrous like this increases the exhaust flow which helps spool the turbos faster and in order to make sure the bottle lasts the entire run, the nitrous is then cut off again once a desired boost pressure is reached.
With our location being 2500m lower than the start line, and 4000m lower than the finish we can’t test what the exact difference in power will be beforehand, but we’ll be sure to go through the data logs and post the results later in the year.
Want to learn how to tune something like this? Take the first step by coming along to our next FREE live dyno lesson - bit.ly/LiveEFILesson - Auta a dopravní prostředky
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You guys deserve way more that 29k subscribers! Videos are always well edited!
I usually feel a lot smarter after I watch this guy talk. Top notch channel and people.
We're up to 35k now a month or so later. Slowly slowly! =) - Taz.
Hector is going to be running 3 Honda Civics with spoon engines. And on top of that, he just went into Harry's, and he ordered 3 T66 turbos, with NOS. And a Motec exhaust!
Ive seen this comment so many fucking times that I know it by heart.....
Hector's bought about 250,000 T66 turbos to date. Get with the times Hector.
The line of recent tech videos have be great and super informative! Thanks HP
Thanks Brandon! Stoked you're enjoying them. Still have lots of great ones for PRI ready to roll over the coming weeks too =) - Taz.
all the BRoll shots makes this way easyer to understand! keep it up !
Another great video, Andre! Definitely looking forward to showcasing my build to you when it's up and running.
Amazing vid. As always! Love your channel and info..makes me comfortable taking more ASE certs
I love seeing the CAH all tore down like that. :) You get to see all the engineering that goes into it.
Another Excellent video !
Hey Andre, love your content. It's interesting to me how motec is so highly regarded, yet one has to resort to using a dashlogger and canbus to set a simple activation condition for the nitrous (boost pressure and rotary dial). I was able to replicate this setup (at least on paper; not tested!) purely within the haltech ESP (elite) software with only a Nitrous Stage 1 function (settings are right there for min/max load (boost pressure), rpm, tps etc) and Nitrous Enable function (for the rotary dial position). I haven't worked extensively with motec/haltech yet but through playing with the respective tuning software suites, I feel like haltech has a bunch of functionality that can be enabled and setup very easily versus the motec looking a bit more complicated and in this case, even missing some of this functionality. Interested to see what you have to say about this. Thanks!
0:01 so funny 😂
15 gears in a 30 second 1/4 mile🤣
Now that is innovative!
its def an interesting setup to run along side the twin turbos on the VR38.
some tuning house also tried other methods of reducing turbo lag.
namely twin charging basically running a super charger to aid the turbo chargers to spool up faster and the super charger to assist the engine at low rpms. Once the turbos are up to speed and engine reached certain engine speed, will the supercharger cut off.
There are electric superchargers and no its not those ebay junk air chargers but superchargers with an actual compressor section much like a pro-charger system but its electric rather than engine driven unit. Audi, Volvo, BMW all employed tri charging systems in the engines to get a smooth power band and torque curve.
NOS if not correctly tuned and used = blown engine and lots of fried piston rings and worst case is you have to junk the whole block when the cylinder walls are damaged.
Yes a lot of people assume NOS is a really easy power adder, and the product name of 'Cheater' doesn't help that image!
Realistically you need to take as much consideration as you would when fitting a turbo or supercharger to have a reliable and effective setup - Taz.
well like you said Fast and Furious and racing games like Need For Speed excessive use of NOS makes everyone think you can add NOS to a normal car and expect instant speed and acceleration. Until the engine goes kaboom
Pretty sure I saw a documentary that said the only risk of too much nos is "danger to manifold"
Awesome video as usual. Sub.
Very informative
I'm interested in knowing two details: how effective is the heater pad given it is a carbon fiber bottle (non-conductive) vs an aluminum bottle (conductive)?
Why not consider a NANO system instead of the heater? In my experience it's much more consistent at keeping the pressure up and consistent.
Excellent Chanel!
Cheers! - Taz.
Informative video. Thanks! Curious what the total weight add to the vehicle was. Also be interested to know how you manage heat from engine on the bottle. Is there a scenario where you need a bottle cooler due to radiant heat of engine (Ive not used NOS myself but have toyed with the idea to spool large frame turbo applications)?
buzzedo1 Total weight is not much at all. My standard bottle is 22 lbs empty and just under 45 lbs full. I use it to adjust power based on competition.
I assume OEMs can vary the amount of oxygen in the dyno chamber.
With a large enough air feeder tank I would think one could do the same.
Another path you could go is to drop the turbine housings down one size and possibly bigger turbine wheels ? Or the new garrett gen 2 turbos
Are those really Infiniti G35 coil packs on rb? or am I misunderstanding something?
Megasquirt (ms3x) can shut off the nitrous at a predefined boost pressure
Is it possible to make a 3D nitrous map based on RPM and TPS to control the solenoid duty cycle? So there could be a situation where nitrous would be at a duty cycle of say %30 at 3000RPM but modified by TPS to half of that duty cycle?
basically this thing is a Group B car for modern day
What about co2 injected into the turbo?
Have you considered injecting the jet of nitrous at a tangent at the turbo compressor wheel? This would use the energy of the compressed gas to assist in spinning up the turbo.
And it should cool down the air in the housing which would make it act like a bigger turbo too
15 gears 🤦🏿♂️😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭🤣🤣🤣🤣 Classic.
If the bottle runs dry during the very end of the hill does the bottle heater keep trying to up the pressure or is there a point where it stops heating. Just asking because it is probably very hard to estimate just how much NO2 will be required for a full power run.
We can set a pressure below which the bottle heater will give up and abandon all hope :)
I'll take one!
A Vr38dett in a Ford Focus wait a whole minute here...
i always tought that nitrous needs to be sprayed individyally to each cylinder to get even afr on all cylinders. or is this false?
It depends on your setup. If your intake design is good, the nitrous should be evenly distributed to all cylinders if you inject at a single point. Of course, port injection enables more control. On a race setup like this, they are probably measuring exhaust gas temperatures of the individual ports when tuning, allowing them to even out the afr across the cylinders.
Nah, when I think of nitrous oxide I think of the dentist.
nang power inside
What is the advantage of NOS anti-lag vs a traditional anti-lag system?
Nitrous built boost more faster.
Curious as to why the nos injection is set to start at 3000rpm and not at say 1000rpm or 1500rpm?
I highly doubt it'd get that low in the rev range going around the hairpins in 1st gear. Plus it's a flying start, so having the nitrous active that low would unnecessarily waste the nitrous and stress the engine.
turbos wouldnt spool even at those low rpm and even in tight corners the revs wont drop that low so there isnt a need for the nos to come on that early
playandpay I believe the risk of backfire is the main reason.
Avoiding to high cylinder pressures. Nitrous backfires are related to fuel puddles in the intake AFAIK, and wouldn't occur on a dry system.
The reason NO2 isnt injected at very low engine rpms is because the power increase is the same no matter the rpm, ie a 100hp shot would increase the power output by 100 all the way through the rev range. This is a problem at low rpm because horsepower is a function of torque and rpm. What this means is that there is a larger increase in torque at lower rpm than at higher rpms. To put things in perspective, 100hp of Nitrous at 1000 rpm is equal to 525.2 lbft of torque. That would certainly cause engine failure.
Has anybody played with pre-turbo nitrous injection, similar to pre-turbo methanol injection? The meth functions as octane on demand, but also broadens the compressor map. My idea is that nitrous would further broaden the compressor map and... well... hit the nawz hahaha.
Should try megasquirt pro
For what specific reason related to anti-lag and racing at altitude? - Taz.
@@hpa101 how about a series comparing all ecu's
There are simply too many to do that with and also everyone has different requirements and budgets so what is best for us might be useless for you, however, we have created content that tackles that from another angle and helps you find the right ECU for you - www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/which-standalone-ecu-is-the-best/
y not just run a supercharger?
lol 15 gears hahahahah
ikr...? i keep returning to this video just to hear Dre crack that joke, 99% of the time he's all business. LOL
You only achieve this on motec
What an accent
Thank you.
@@hpa101 thank u for your vídeos:)
@@tegogolo3 thank you for putting up with our accent and watching them 😅
@@hpa101 OFC i will !! & i wasn't trying to be rude, srry!Gretings from mexico
help me tune my 88 ford ltd. lol.
That's a cool car, but that is not a Ford Focus.
As intended it looks more Ford Focus than it does Fiat Panda/anything else, hence the label :) - Taz.
Agreed, but it's kinda like me saying my mustache makes me look like Tom Selleck. Great car though.
Not a carbon fiber bottle its fiber glass
No, it's not a fibreglass bottle Jesse =) - Taz.
dumbass, its clearly carbon.
No it’s not lol
it is fiber but not glass fiber