Avoiding the Touch - Return to Siula Grande
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- čas přidán 28. 01. 2017
- The making of the film Touching the Void throws up some interesting and possibly conflicting insights into what happened following the attempted rescue and subsequent survival of a young mountaineer on the west face of the Siula Grande.
I claim no ownership or copyright on this material and provide for educational purposes only.
Since added an 'Epilogue' post that appears in the revised version of the book.
These guys survived the impossible. Anyone who even remotely criticizes either man is an arm-chair coward. No one, but no one, could ever know what they experienced. Both have the absolute right to react and feel the way they do in spite of those who feel they should have acted or reacted differently. Cutting the rope saved both lives. Both were utterly spent by that time. This will go down in history as one of those events where the human spirit dug deep enough to survive, against all odds, and where 99.9% would have perished.
walt Durling VERY TRUE. NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO JUDGE. I see people who FREEZE just at the sight of blood.
walt Durling
Absolutely. It’s the reality of high altitude climbing. Both of them knew it before attempting the ascent. It’s why it’s one of the most dangerous sports around.
#1 rule of climbing: if you fuck up, never drag your partner(s) down with you. Joe lost his axe edge, fell and broke his leg, it had nothing to do with Simon. No honorable man then has the right to demand Simon die along with Joe, or in his place, and Joe would never have allowed him to do so. If he'd had a knife of his own, he'd have cut the line himself.
@ensayofr - Yes - you would. You would have cut the rope, as would anyone else. Simon took the only choice that was available to him and, before you melt down, listen to the man that was on the receiving end of that decision. He would have done the same.
my dad climbed with them during their preparation and he said it's a rational completely fair decision to make cutting the rope because of how incredibly dangerous it would be to attempt something like that, if he had attempted to help the guy down the mountain then most likely they would have both died definitely
I dont know why people think the critical point in the story is the cutting of the rope.
I think the story is about how Joe decides he'd rather die trying than to wait it out. Where he continues little step by little step inspite of how ridiculously impossible the task is. Where he goes down into the crevice because it's the only option to go on.
As he said, you don't die from a broken knee. In his case, you die from just sitting in a glacier and getting hypothermia. Keep making decisions, keep moving. Has the feel of 127 hours about it.
I love how both Simon and Joel are always absolutely honest with their answers. They don't try to sugar coat anything, or avoid telling things you might want to hide. This is something you can also see in the film
a time before people developed camera personas; a pair of short tempered, insular men, damaged and defined by the life they've chosen. The pecking order and mentality of the film crew would seem intolerably petty and pretencious to men who routinely make life or death decisions and actions.
So glad I watched this, touching the void changed my life completely, I was overwhelmed emotionally by Joe's experience and by both of their honesty. Joe's will to carry on regardless of his chances of survival was beyond incredible.
truly a life-changing story that sculpts so clearly in the mind just how precious life is and the extent we'd go to defend it and how we take it stupidly for granted.
Give 127hours a watch , better yet the documentary "desperate days in blue john canyon " - remarkable survival!
@wolfe8421 appreciate the recommendation thanks
Camera guy - why did you come back here?
Simon - you guys paid me
Why else would either of them want to go otherwise wouldnt be fun for either of them. All the physical and emotional hell they both went through
@@annashaw6538 I think they'd have rather gone on a fishing trip on a nice boat and given an interview.
"Bloody hell I'm gonna die to Boney M"
Bobby Pickett & the Crypt Kicker 5 might be my preference lol
I hate boney m "
I like to think it made him angrier so he kept going. It's why that song is now on my motivational playlist. It confuses the hell out of everybody who hasn't seen the movie. Those who have, "get it". It's now Joe Simpson's Survival Anthem. He owns that shit.
The sheer will to live on Joe Simpson makes him an uber-badass. Right up there with Aron Ralston (the guy who cut off his own arm with a pocket knife after 5 days under a boulder) and Hugh Glass (the 18th century frontiersman who got mauled by a bear, mistaken for dead and forced to crawl like 100 miles to find rescue).
@@jasoncarswell7458 I'm wondering why Boney allowed them to put it in their movie
@@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes maybe respect? More likely a record label owns their catalog and it was one of 100 licenses for the song they issued that month.
Joe, Simon, I'm so damn sorry that the making of this film was so hard for you. I'm so glad you both are alive and well. You too, Richard. You are extraordinary people, and I wish you all the very best life has to offer. Thank you for telling your story, even though I know that we can never EVER begin to understand how you felt during this time, or how it has affected your entire lives. Thank you.
Exactly . Nice that someone gets it 🙂❤
why are you sorry? what role did u play in the making of the film and how would you do it differently so that u wouldn't be sorry next time?
I selected Touching the Void for my A-Level English exam in 1999. It's an incredible book and everything pivots on what my teacher called the "existential moment" of cutting the rope.
I was also studying Hamlet and noted the contrast - I get the impression Simon wouldn't have procrastinated had he been tasked with Hamlet's decision.
In the end, Touching the Void had a happy ending - they both survived thanks to the decision, whereas Hamlet's indecision resulted in a Tarantino-like orgy of death at the end.
Conclusion - it's better to make a decision than create a world of indecision.
I think there is a truly existential moment for both Joe and Simon. Simon's moment is cutting the rope. Joe's moment is going "deeper" into the crevace to either die or find his way out. I can't even imagine making either decision. Not for a moment.
The "going deeper" bit was indeed totally fucking illogical. He didn't even bother knotting the rope because he knew he couldn't climb back up, so his plan was if it just kept going down into darkness he'd simply drop off the end and try to land on his head.
@@jasoncarswell7458 I don't think it is fully illogical. I remember thinking the same while I was watching the movie. I thought "If you can't go back up, why don't you try to go down and find a way out (maybe along the sides of the crevasse)?". And a minute later Joe did the same. I am pretty sure some other people had the same idea while watching the movie. Therefore, it shouldn't be so illogical. Of course, you would be playing dice with your life. But in that situation, Joe had no other chances.
I know someone who lives their life in indecision, I'm going to tell him this.
Indecision is always a poor decision.
@@jasoncarswell7458
Naw mate, if he was "dead" either way then he wouldn't be anymore or less dead trying to go down to get up.
Illogical would have been him staying put hoping for rescue which given after 4 days Simon had not sent help proved he would have died waiting.
While Joe was dangling some 100 foot on a rope with a broken leg, let us not forget that Simon stayed with him and tried his best to get Joe down off the mountain and back to base camp, and then on to some medical attention. In the dark, with a howling blizzard blowing all around them, no means of communication between them, Simon not fully knowing Joe's circumstance and condition having slipped over the edge, but yet, he held onto that rope for quite a while, growing more desperate and anxious with every passing minute.
Simon couldn't pull Joe back up, for such movement would've have made his own 'dug in' position weak, and the weight of Joe would have had them both slide over the edge. After an interminable amount of time, Simon eventually cut the rope because he had no choice. If your climbing companion falls and dies, it does not mean that you should then go and jump off the mountain out of sympathy. You do whatever it takes to stay alive, you live to tell the story, but nothing will beguile you of the guilt you will feel for surviving.
Once the rope was cut, Joe had the harder time, no doubt about it, but Simon was equally suffering on that mountain, trying to hold onto his climbing companion as long as he could against very severe elements. Was Simon supposed to die along with Joe? No, of course not, and Joe would agree he wasn't.
The actions taken by one man, while at the time could only be interpreted in one way, turned out to have have saved both them. That is a sure sign that throughout all the adversity, physically and psychologically, providence was always smiling on them both. It is good that both climbers made it through to live on.
non mountaineer/climber detected.
Need to be twice someone's size to have the strength to pull them up by a rope, and even in ideal circumstances its very hard.
I still regularly watch this with groups of students. Such a testament to survival and positive thinking. These guys are inspirationally brave. Any critsism of what they did is quite frankly absurd.
Both Simon and Joe are legends, settled in the mountaineering legacy from mallory and irvine to Rob Hall and Scott Fischer. Only they survived to tell their tale. They shouldn't have returned to Siule Grande.
The first time I seen touching the void, at first I didn't want to watch it. I watched it with my friend, I was obsessed. I can't believe how tough these guys are, how the human body and mind can do stuff like this. These guys are true warriors in my eyes!
The person who is filming and asking them questions is being so intrusive this really hurts to watch. I really don’t blame Simon for not wanting to be part of this after they finished filming.
Sometimes you have to go to the extremes to get to whats real. A more passive stance may not have garnered such honest replies. Whether this makes for good documentary making is opinion bearing in mind that Joe felt that 'Void' was a fair representation of what happened. What may be more disagreeable to some is the fact that the stand ins where mostly used for those long shots which Joe had been so uncomfortable doing. I wonder whether this was deliberate on behave of the director, to get the raw responses from Joe in this, the extras which I think provides as valuable a story as the main film.
cpcnw totally get that. It just seemed very reackless to go prodding at his emotions that way it was clear from the beginning that joe was not coping at all. Joe seems very forthcoming with his emotions so I don’t think it was necessary to be this hectic with the questions
I think it’s great they did that. It makes the documentary real and interesting! Some of the questions are probing, but they are not overly aggressive. Besides, they didn’t go there to feel good. They went there to make a documentary which they were paid for, and agreed to do.
The fact that this is just another experience for Simon shows how clear his concious regarding the cutting the rope thing is. He surely was surprised and glad that Joe made it out alive despite all these circumstances, but as a pragmatic person how would it alter his rope cutting decision.
Everybody in the professional community that I know of whole heartedly supports his decision and so he has nothing to worry about.
It is annoying that they reduce his achievements in a way that he is viewed as a "part" of Joe's experience while he had so many more great achievements by itself. I can understand his frustration with the constant framing about this experience.
My Aunt had the pleasure of meeting Simon Yates. I just watched the documentary again and still can't believe it they both made it.
Proper English spirit, keep calm and carry on.
This is a strange comment but I'd love to sit in on Joe's therapy sessions. He's got such a fantastically candid, honest approach, but so powerful in his vulnerability.
He's a "lone eagle" Alpha, very "strong silent type", cold, driven, incredibly strong willpower, very intelligent but not much of a talker, not easy to get along with, etc.
The pain and horror of this experience shook him to his roots. You'll notice he mentions he never had any temptation to call out to God (despite being raised a devout Catholic) or think of any of his loved ones: he was too wrapped up in the physical, tangible reality of that feral struggle for life. He knew in his heart that if he died, that was it: there was no heaven, there was only him vs. the mountain, and if he didn't make it than nobody would ever know or care.
A shoe-gazing emotional type wouldn't have been able to horsewhip themselves into taking that kind of pain just for the CHANCE that your buddies haven't done the logical thing and left you there. A cold, hard, Uberman, remarkable powerful individual willpower, for sure, and yet he was so broken by the end he didn't even hope to survive, but just to not die so fucking ALONE on that mountain. Just a chance to see another human face.
@@jasoncarswell7458 I would argue that the raw emotion of wanting to die with another human by his side also drove his determination. It's not strictly black and white. Logic and emotion can often work in sync to propel human beings forward in the midst of chaos.
Although I would certainly deem him the ' prickly' type, I find Joe Simpson absolutely captivating. His story telling, his vulnerability, his spirit ... An absolutely fascinating human.
Simon comes across a bit more of a surface dweller but also a strong mind & character. In my opinion those differences are more what drove a wedge between them and not the 'accident' in 85'. It's crazy that he was shamed for his actions as Simon wholeheartedly never did.
If you never stop fighting, you’re never really dying. You are alive until death. The fear is only useful for keeping terrible things from happening. Once stricken, there’s just the pain and the doing. Mine was in no way compared to this one, but I had a rough descent after a fall myself. Changed my life. 20yrs on, I am just now returning to climb baby mountains and it feels fantastic! 20 years of wisdom has already come in handy last summer. Picked bad summit exit, down-climbed into a trap, and had to hang in space for a few moves. I was able to choke down any panic and get the job done. Whew!
I've nearly died lots of times and survival I was told was a miracle, drug overdoses was what done it to me but both risky life things and both hoping to achieve the same feeling just some people don't have money to climb so take drugs to get the same feeling and survival really does change your life, the gratitude for life is something someone who isn't like us will never understand. I sometimes think Jesus why don't these adrenaline junkies just get some drugs! It's the same result
An amazing story and an amazing film. You can see the obvious emotion that Simon tries his best to contain.....one tough individual.
Lol, I love that Simon is 100% honest with everything, but people like you STILL try and paint your own notions on him. There's no "obvious emotion", he made a decision and doesn't let it define his life despite everyone trying to make it the thing that does. You did get one thing right, he's a tough individual. He's been matter of fact about everything. Go ahead and post a timestamp of his "obvious" hidden emotion....fucking ridiculous dude
@@joenobody5913 I agree. He was 21 when it happened. Like he never did anything else in his life after this.
@@joenobody5913 Stop punishing yourself for not having the emotions that you think you should or shouldn't have in life. Everyone is *highly* unique and individual.
As a psychologist I can only say that taking someone who lived through trauma back to the exact place of it and actually reconstructing the original situation to the point where they have to act out the very scenes that traumatised them in the first place is highly irresponsible. They could have at least taken a psychologist to give Joe some council when he experienced what is clearly identifiable as signs of PTSD. Moreover I can totally understand him getting pissed off about the situation, when he explains they filmed the shot so you couldn´t see it was him. They should have had an actor do the scenes and take Joe as an advisor. That would probably still have induced some PTSD symptoms but I can imagine it would have made it much less unbearable to at least not have to reenact the scenes himself.
love poeple who tell me what should thing feel like in my head.
is there a standard for feelings? idiot ...
JM Hey shut up you halfwit tell that to the people who's life's couldn't move on until the revisit this scenes of trauma go and read some more books you quack
JM Hey, thank you for your post. I am also a licensed psychologist, and after watching this film last night, I had a similar reaction, which even motivated me to return to these comments today to leave a similar message as you. If Joe was highly intent to do this film, I would support his autonomy after cautioning him strongly to consider not doing so. The possibility of retraumatizing himself was very real, and from my professional history of working with multiple patients with PTSD from various traumatic events, I found myself cringing with compassion for Joe. He is certainly a very admirable man, and I respect his courage in sharing his memories and vulnerability. His descriptions of shame and weakness are typical among people with trauma histories, and I think the filmmakers (although well-intentioned) naively exploited Joe (and even Simon, to a lesser degree) to ask him to reveal those vulnerable feelings--especially when they were not effectively using his face for recreation of the scenes. It just seems gratuitous. I'm not a CBT therapist, but my hope is that the filming ultimately served as a crude exposure (flooding) therapy, although I'm quite skeptical.
I wish all of the people who say it had no effect on him would read the fuuuucking book. He was highly traumatised by coming back here and that's pretty obvious by what he went through. I mean y'all have clearly fallen through glacial crevasses often with broken legs right?
Different personality types experience PTSD differently. Joe is an uber-Alpha, like the guys I served with in the paratroops. The kind of damage you get when you're a hard, mean young guy who prides himself on his mental toughness is very different from the kind a civilian gets. Sorry, but it's true.
You want to know what made ME feel "revictimized"? Being treated (and told) I was exactly the same thing as a kid who got diddled by their uncle or some accountant who's family died in a fire. It's not at all a matter of one being more or less than the other, but tough guys who made a choice and are suffering the consequences of that choice FUCKING DESPISE being told that it's not their fault and they're really just a victim of circumstance.
Bullshit to that. Grown ups own their fuck ups. I chose to go infantry and Joe chose to be an ice mountaineer. Hard men in a hard dangerous gig you take with your eyes open. NOT the same thing as somebody who never strived and yet suffered some involuntary loss. My sympathy's for them, because they didn't ask for it. Don't you GOD-DAMN dare show us that same kind of pity.
Both men did what they had to do to survive. Simon cutting the rope doesn’t disturb me, but his callous disregard for what Joe went through greatly disturbs me.
Probably because you don't understand what he actually went through.
If no one had criticised him for cutting the rope it's highly unlikely he would react the same way he does.
To have at and since 21 years of age and for over 15 years gotten criticism for the only choice he had in a situation most people can't understand that ended up with saving both their lives is extremely hard to live with.
To be as emotionless and cold and distancing yourself is a way of trying to cope.
Joe wouldn't even be alive at all if it wasn't for the decisions (no matter if he had a choice or not) that Simon made.
Also for Simon to be so extremely associated to this ONE thing in his life, to the ONLY choice he had with cutting the rope and the negative shit from others and then people think he also should react a certain way after it happened and after he's had to try and shut it out completely to actually be able to move forward with his life too.
The fact that people don't understand why he's had to deal with it like he has just baffles me honestly.
I've found this story fascinating and terrifying at the same time. I've wondered if I could have survived anything remotely like this and the answer to that question is a resounding NO I don't think I could have. I have a great deal of respect for Simon and Joe and admire their courage. Thanks for sharing the story with the world.
At the beginning of Touching The Void it says that Joe and Simon were friends who decided to climb together. But then Joe says no, we're not friends, we're climbing companions. Ouch.
Ouch indeed. Having said that - people change, circumstances change and I think Simon is right in that all too often later in life we end up with just a few close people we would truly call friends. I think a lot of that is to do with how much time we have. It seems to me that materialism, the housing market, personal transport would have us with a perceived 'quality of life' that is very 'time poor' - unless you are really lucky and born into privilege or win the lottery we are mostly using all our time to pay for it - and no time for what really matters; human relationships.
It's pretty common in the climbing community. There's a lot of young men who are obsessed with a singular goal, but you need a partner. This is how these relationships form. It would be hard to describe them as friends because you wouldn't call them out of the blue to chat... but you put your life 100% in their hands, sleep and shit next to them for a few weeks, so there's a level of trust that exceeds almost any normal friendship. Companion or comrade are probably better words than friend.
There are exceptions of course. I met some lifelong mates from climbing. I've also met the most selfish and unpleasant people in the world. Rare breed.
They were 25 and he left him for dead lmfao
And STILL forgave and defends his actions. Jesus y'all hate Joe.. why?
Joe's a very specific personality type you see in extreme solo athletes. They are the very definition of "lone eagles", and are honestly most happy when they are challenging nobody but themselves, surrounded by nobody but themselves. It invigorates them. They really don't have a lot of "friends", nor are they the kind of friend who ever shares anything personal. Cold, distant, hard as iron, etc. Joe is all these things. He's like George Leigh Mallory.
I remember it was filmed in Siula Grande region Huayhuash. I was one of the assistant of the climbers Joe Simpson , Simon Yates. we were there almost 20 days
if you are looking for to visit Base Camp of Siula Grande this is your oportunity
contact us Peruvian Mountains
I took a slide on a mountain; ice broke away on steep couloir in NZ and I tumbled to what I thought was my death. I woke up after 'joeing out' grabbed the gangling ice axe and self-arrested before going over a bluff. A week in hospital with 3rd degree burns to my ass and stuffed ankles, I find myself telling the story to others (when I do) in the third person, certainly, I don't get deep about it. I must have had PTSD for a year or more looking back on it. I would not like to go and reenact it. Like hell. What were the crew thinking? !
I get confronting it sure - I did more climbing after mine than before, - but, to do what I just watched here, reenact it, buggers me.
There is a Comfort and Trust in watching Joe. He SHARES the details of his Trauma. Both Factual, Professionally ..and Very Viscerally. The world could learn ALOT from this Man. He Never plays the VICTIM. He takes Accountability for his OWN actions. Anything he writes, or posts..I will watch.
There's a terrible assumption that Joe must have had the worse experience/psychological trauma because he was the one who fell, who was injured and endured the most physically. But think of this: people who kill because they are sociopaths or evil feel little in any regret for their actions. Any 'normal' person who is responsible for the 'death' of another person would be deeply traumatised by this action, especially because their actions were necessary to save their own life. Consider this: if Simon had NOT cut the rope, if he'd decided that he couldn't live with himself and committed himself to dying, he'd be dead and Joe would probably still be alive, since Joe would still have landed within the crevasse and Simon would have been likely thrown off the mountain completely. Then Joe would be the one experiencing what Simon is going through. Watching this video does nothing more than convince me that Simon remains deeply, deeply traumatised by the guilt and by the knowledge that he made a decision to end someone's life. His 'cold' and 'callous' attitude seems, to me, to be nothing more than a defence mechanism. I feel really sad for both men and what they've gone through. But Joe comes out like the hero of the tale, where as Simon is the villain who cut the rope. Must be so difficult to live with.
The 'washing' at base camp and burning Joe's clothes I agree are the actions of someone who is wrestling with their conscience / emotions.
Spot on analysis. I thought the same thing when they were asking him about the significance of that particular mountain and how it defines his life. He down played it so hard, as if he was trying to convince himself as well as the camera crew
Jo March Doubtful. Joe would not have survived without Simon. If he had made it to camp and Simon was dead, i.e, not there. Richard notwithstanding, he wouldnt have survived. So it renders that point moot. Imo
They're both amazing people but Joe fought much harder and there is no doubt. Simon made the hard choice to cut the rope but reading the book and Simon's honest recounts.. he was not feeling guilty.
cpcnw he stayed at the camp because he wanted to rest and eat and he was not remorseful at all. Read the book. If you don't read the book - which states both Simon and Joe's most recent thoughts in their disaster - and only watch the documentary it's a waste. These after videos aren't a good recollection of what actually happened.
Joe is incredibly humble and modest. Hopping around the snooker table in The Broadfield after his accident without any mention of his recent adventure. Nice guy
🙌 👏 🙏 🤝 👍 . . . been reading his books recently. GREAT guy . . .
Simon seemed so defensive here. He wasn't at all defensive in "Touching the Void," where I thought he seemed quite honest & somewhat vulnerable & really likeable. And in touch with what a fragile & loaded thing that decision was. Here he seemed like he was doggedly trying to convince everyone it was "just another place, just another adventure." When someone tries that hard to convince others of something, the person he's really trying to convince is himself.
I think there is an element of that however if you think of how years of being 'the guy who cut the rope' must affect you? Yeah, that's gonna change you for sure. Overall I think both came out of it as would be expected. It's a very tough / unique / bizarre mental position for both with deep mental scarring: to have nearly died but to have lived, to have nearly killed but to have saved a life?
Oh I agree. Mostly I'm just commenting on the contrast between his attitudes in TtV and this documentary. They seem like night & day. I suppose he had even more time to stew in it.
I think he was putting up a barrier for the film crew and didn't want to unpack all those memories again. I mean, he was thinking about how he was going to explain it to Joe's parents when it happened, and he was clearly not very open and friendly with the film crew upon returning. Who can blame him? It was such a personal experience.
Besides, I think a lot people confuse selfishness with pragmatism. Simon just did what he needed to do and Joe, if you think about it, should have been dead but Simon belayed him down pitch after pitch with no water and no hope at all. He could have easily left him right then and there because Joe getting injured jeopardized Simon's survival too. But a lot of people forget that he didn't leave Joe.
23:25 Did he seriously just ask that question!?? I had so much anxiety just from watching the film of everything that Joe went through. The thought of breaking my leg, HORRIFICALLY, being hurled down a mountain in a blizzard and then falling down a cravasse...pulling on the rope and ending up with the cut section between your fingers. Being completely alone in that cravasse...through the night.... Having the guts to lower yourself to what you think is the bottom.... with that horrifically broken leg...not knowing what other unholy terror awaits you....and, managing to heave yourself out from there only to be faced with a seemingly impossible epic journey to maybe get to a place where you might have the "luxury" of not dying alone. I understand the guys are making this movie but seriously have any of them truly thought about what he went through?? If you were making a movie about someone who was abducted and tortured in a basement, you wouldn't take the victim back there and shackle them up. Just because a place has an awesome vista, doesn't make it any less the place where a horror occurred. Kudos to Joe for going back there. The way he saved himself was nothing short of superhuman.
Edit: On reflection, if anyone has read all that, I guess the film makers did a good job, because it obviously stirred huge emotion, empathy and anxiety in me.
I'm really confused after hearing this question. What answer did they expect to get? I can't even imagine how this question is stupid. Of course Joe would answer "definitely no" after he'd nearly died here, that's amazing that he could reach the base camp being exhausted, scared and with very painful broken leg. That's incredible. I just can't imagine what he felt when answered it
@@tr_cesar I know...it's got to be in the top 10 of most ridiculous and thoughtless questions.
I know it's ridiculous! I've been through things like Joe through drug addiction and nearly died lots of times ànd would never want to be there again. Drug addiction is very similar to adrenaline junkies and apparently studies have show an addicts mind goes through more then people in wars with PTSD coz addicts are facing death every day and the brain doesn't no the difference
It's the best documentary I've watched.
its an incredible, amazing film, thank you for making it. It's life changing just to see it. Thank you for trying to make this beyond words human experience come alive for other people...the absolute limit of human experience...had to be shared...such an incredible journey of the one simple message: never give up. And it's ultimately such a beautiful story of luck and love. The guys shouldn't be afraid to recognize this.
Chapeau Joe and Simon.
Great book, wonderfull movie.
It is a pleasure to recall your books.
Touching the Void is my all time second most favourite film. Thanks for sharing this glimpse behind the scenes.
Damn you can't say that without naming your first choice
@@MrYAY100 easy, the only story which can handle this place is the story of John Krakauers book about the Everest incidents 1996 😉
@@MrYAY100 First place is the Karate Kid II
I was really disappointed when I watched into the void and they ended the film with all 3 men still on the mountain. They didnt even show Joe getting a drink of water once he made it back to the tent. I wanted to see what happened all the way up to his recovery. He was still in extreme danger of losing his life at the point the movie ended. And viewers are invested at that point in the movie, so nobody would call it tedious or boring to continue watching the mule ride, then the truck ride, then finally hospital scenes where he had to wait 2 days for his health insurance to clear in order for them to operate.
There is a video on CZcams called 'what happened next' about this story. It has all of the info that I was wondering about. I can't believe it took me 6 hours to find it after searching google for the rest of the story but I'm just glad it exists and I did eventually find what I was looking for.
its the most amazing story i have ever heard of, whenever i need inspiration i watch the film and try to think of what joe went through, if he can go through all of that i can surly do anything i want to.
Alive is another great triumph of the spirit movie.
Have you seen all of the movies and shows about the thai cave rescue? i am obsessed with that story. Perhaps the most perfect dramatic rescue story that will ever happen to the human race. It was truly miraculous.
Climbers at this level are risk-takers. It's the game.
It's especially high-risk with 2 people only, and nil backup in extreme circumstances.
One can question their general sense of responsibility by conventional standards, sure.
I would prefer to question the ethics, egos and motivations of the climbers who tackle Everest, and who continue to trudge painfully upwards, passing casualties en route to their summit aspirations, either as paying clients or guides.
As in "All bets are off above 26,000 ft and it's every man for himself....Bullshit!"
Humanity does not cease to apply. If you can still move upwards, you can still offer assistance. By definition.
David Sharp springs to mind. Some 40 climbers passed him by.
Let alone the 1996 "Into thin Air" episode, which was subject to controversial examination.
Beck Weathers was similarly "left for dead".
He survived.
Simon Yates has, nor ever had any case to answer.
He apparently did all that he was capable of, alone, and under extreme circumstances.
He didn't just "walk on by".
...Just a subjective opinion, obviously. I wasn't there!
Man, I gotta ask you - have you ever been above 8k?
AMAZING what the body can do when it NEEDS to! Nothing but respect for these kinda guys, honestly amazing stufF! Ty for the vid
Yeah I love the stories of people that defy the odds and persevere, Adrift is another movie based on a fantastic against all odds story.
It represents the life force in the world that never gives up.
A great story, glad you shared it
I don't know how he survived that. I broke my leg years ago and the pain was unreal. Ive had three kids and would rather go through labour again than that pain,seriously. What a brave,brave man and so lovely. Pity there aren't more men like him anymore. God bless you x
Anne Perry god what’s with this hating on men, there have been amazing and horrible men through all the years, I don’t see what the generation or gender really has to do with it, everyone’s very different
@@sunlightliquid8420I don’t think Anneperry is hating on men at all..quite the opposite..
This is heartbreaking to watch. So much hurt that will never go away in this lifetime.
Now I know what Frodo and Sam went through.
@Mr T lol
Have to remember they weren't even that close or even liked each other so much so the fact sinom even tried to help is brilliant
Greetings Joe, Simon and Richard from an Ecuadorian guy in Munich. If you come here I invite you two beers per person or in England if you want.
This experience is too much for one person too live. I’m convinced that many people prayed for you afterwards watching this story because somehow we are all connected and what happens to you, happens to me.
God bless,
Fran
The PTSD must have been awful
. . . you BET !!!
I didn't even go through their ordeal and seeing them back where it happened gave me a slight sense of panic. I can't imagine having gone back after that. It's a great film and an incredible story. I am grateful to them for having endured this experience. I hope after this they were able to set it aside once again and get on with life.
Thanks for sharing. I find it interesting that both climbers seem a bit aloof and put off by the filming.
It's clearly still pretty Traumatic for them both . You can just tell
watching joe standing there, looking at these rocks and refusing to go further in the beginning - every cell in my body felt it.
You've honestly got to feel sorry for him. Imagine the trauma of the situation that he had been through, that when he returns to the place where his life was literally saved he had no emotional attachment to it. I also sense a slight sense of hostility towards Simon there. As if going back brought back all the memories.
I know 'Touching the Void' is an old movie, but I'm watching it and realize that Simon had a reasonable way out of their predicament without just cutting his partner's rope. I'll try to explain.
Recall that they were lowering Joe with 2 50 meter ropes tied together, and they were in the middle of the rope with the knot just above the belay plate. Simon needed to take the belay plate off and replace it above the knot, but couldn't with weight on the rope. Joe was unable to get his weight off the rope because he was hanging in mid-air. Simon held him like this for over an hour at least. But there was a way he could have lowered him the remaining 150 feet, as follows:
Take a carabiner and put the rope ABOVE the knot on belay direct to his harness(not the belay loop) with a munter hitch. Hold the brake hand on this and then CUT THE BELAY LOOP from his harness. The belay plate would remain in place on the rope, but he would then be able to lower the remaining 150' on the munter hitch. Of course, he had no way to know if that would have solved their problem or not, but it was certainly worth a try before just cutting the rope.
I'm surprised that this hasn't been brought up before. I searched google but couldn't find anybody mentioning this. I am NOT saying this as a criticism of Simon. In a stressful situation like that, people are rarely able to think out of the box for creative solutions. The reason I bring it up is that it's a powerful technique that if people discussed it, would bring it 'in the box' so they would think of it when needed.
I think SImon's actions where fairly creative given the predicament. Plus, would another 150ft of rope made any difference? No, he would have still fell into the crevasse.
@@cpcnw Disagree. Joe would have been able to secure himself with his ice axes and unweight the rope on the edge of the crevasse rather than going down inside it. Again, not criticizing Simon. He went way above and beyond compared to what most would have done. But the fact remains that there was another solution that could have been executed.
@@FarmCraft101 You're saying this from the comfort of your bed. It's easy, isn't it?
@@ancaas7945 The point is to think through solutions in advance so you don't have to create them in the stress of the moment. There was a much better solution here than cutting the rope. And if I were ever in a similar situation, having thought through this "in the comfort of my bed" I would have that technique ready and available.
@Wayne Appreciate the reply. This solution is something I considered and there are a couple problems as I see it. First, it requires that Simon had a prussik available. He probably did, but we don't know that. More importantly, it requires some additional rope to lower the weight onto the prussik. In this video he does this at the 4 minute mark, calling it "load transfer is complete." After holding Joe for so long in a blizzard, with cold hands and miserable conditions, I would bet the house that the knot was tight up against the belay plate at that point. The fact that Simon was able to retrieve his knife from his pack is evidence that he had both hands free, and was no longer holding Joe by a brake hand. But you are correct, this IS a solution, assuming he had a prussik and still had some rope to work with. My proposed solution only requires a carabiner and the status of the knot doesn't matter.
Wow. How powerful is this? It was important to go back for them both. Simply burying a tragic happenstance and moving on is not recovery. I'm glad they went back. Imagine the gear they had to work with in 1985. I was 3 and am now almost 40. Tough men for sure 👍 💯.
Such respect for these man. I wish they’d bring a good trauma therapist with them when returning to this mountain. And that they did not bring a film crew before having emotionally worked through the memories.
Simon's real pain is he was a survivor in a near death situation, but he's not Joe, so his struggle is 'unimportant'
I think no matter what decision he had made he would never have been able to come out of it in a good light. A rock and a very very hard place.
Yes it is. He waited and didn't just leave when he got back to camp. he stayed n
'His struggle is unimportant '. That's not true !! To him , guys family , friends etc of course it's important . what a silly immature comment
Tim Sharpe i think Harry is implying that that is how most ppl perceive Simon (not him personally). His trauma was pushed to the side by most. He was also vilified by many in the climbing community so this event/location brings him anger and resentment.
@@kicker2511 I agree. The idea that Simon could be traumatised by his experiences just as badly as Joe is impossible for some people to comprehend. My heart goes out to both of them. Joe for the clear trauma of spending so many days in agony, fighting for his life. Simon for making the impossible decision and having to live with the consequences. I think too many people assume that Simon must be OK because Joe didn't die.
what's the point in having joe and simon play the role of essentially doubles for the actors? offering them to revisit I can understand, but having joe re-enact a past trauma, that's a pretty strong thing to ask someone to do and bribe them with a big pay day. the only things they needed to do were the interviews. this could have been done easily without them
I think the documentary maker wanted to create the most realistic representation of what actually happened. Joe and possibly Simon had forgotten a lot of the detail and needed strong reminders which was achieved by paying them to go back. Plus it made this a great 'extras' and insight. Joe said he was happy that they had done that.
Imagine asking a rape victim to re-enact the event.
@@nihility00 in what world were they forced to go there on either occasion?
@@rmcminiking he said "asked" not "forced"
@@richardschofield2201 And a rape victim is FORCED, by definition, when raped.
Do you understand now?
A really interesting documentary about mountaineering fame/infamy and the media’s fascination with things that some people would prefer be forgotten.
Their True Life Story is still one of my favourites.
I am not a qualified psychologist, .....
Listening to Joe here, I can see, that he was a broken man, after his major ordeal, there is something about him -
despite his inner strength- that is child like.
One can talk for ever
about Trauma in one’s Life, or the PTS accompanying the aftermath. It can give tools, to deal with it.
But
BEING there
Meeting the very people who were a central part in Joe’s experience, seeing the mountain, smelling the Air......
Would do more to his healing, than sitting in a white office with a plastic plant, and a box of tissues, an hour to speak and listen.....
But
He could have gone when he chose
And not due to being
Asked by a Film crew.
When not based on an authentic desire to retrospectively walk in his past footsteps, to heal....:
Joe would kick against the bricks.
“ how does it feel to be back here?”
Joe:
“ ...... I died here, you have not got the faintest idea, of what I went through - what it was like- do you?”....
To me,
It would be a waste of such a unimaginably hard experience, to “ wall it up and not think about it for another 15 years”.
Joe has been changed forever.
And of course
They want and need to move on.
The movie, I thought, was a fairly faithful to Joe and Simon ( and Richard ) account.
And their appearance in it, as themselves narrating from each of their perspectives, added
A solidity of substance.
All the very best to you All!
Thank you
Joe and Simon are heroes in my book.But private people as well,I have the utmost respect for both guys,especially for returning in the first place.I wish them well (I was climbing around the same time) and I enjoyed the book and resulting films.
I completely understand Joe, it must have been really difficult to go back. But I remember from the movie the Boney M. song, that played in his head and I'm sure, it came up for the line: "show me your motion"...He has a powerful guide in his life and came back for a reason. I hope he'll find it, every sh.t we're going through is for a reason, until we figure out, what it is, is a tough journey.
At just before 24.00 he said the most meaningful thing
That’s very traumatic to go back, and risky, given the uncertainty of the emotions it evokes.
I feel for Simon. He's tries very hard to not let an experience define his being and when his shared experience with Joe turned into entertainment/a story it really dehumanized him i think. Seems Simon wants to move on from that time but maybe without acknowledging it.
In the film perfect blue theres a scene where the actress has to recreate a traumatic event and she tries very hard to overcome the mental damage that it did to her. That's sort of who Simon reminds me of.
that week he was lost changed all his life and made him a totally different being, sometimes the only way to grow goes trough the hard way
If he didn’t cut the rope, neither of them would’ve survived. By cutting the rope, both lived to tell the tale
There was only one decision Simon could of made if he was to live. The fact that Joe survived too was an added bonus. But you could argue that Joe saved himself.
Absolute legend joe what a fighter seriously like a a pride lion in a mans body 1000% of people wouldnt of survived in that situation like he did massive respect to him 👍
My respects to you sir. Greetings from Belgium
This behind the scenes is really tough to watch, especially seeing Joe and his reaction to being back. I cannot imagine going back to a place where you nearly lost your life. It has to be completely traumatic to him. I also understand Simons point of view. People are unsympathetic but to be honest i wouldn't have gone back there, unless you paid me too! Who wants to go back to a place and revisit memories that are so mixed for so many? And the director is annoying by prodding him relentlessly as if he's Dr. Phil and he's going to get Simon to have some sort of sudden emotional breakthrough and wax poetically about his personal trials and tribulations. It makes me sick. Nobody has a right to judge Joe or Simon! Until it happens to you, THEN, maybe then you can talk.
May be the return back to that special place was a B I G challenge. And you know these tough guys LIKE challenges THE MOST !!!
Honestly this is bloody brilliant, my dad once climbed with these fine men whilst they were practicing the skills they needed for such an ascent, he's a very honest man and he said and declares to this day that he should have cut the rope. In a situation like that it's zero life vs one life, honestly it's so terrible the shit he got for cutting that rope coming from the son of a climber who helped in training with this peak.
Da's name is Paul Evans for anyone who is interested, he does art now but at the time he was a major climber
What's your Dad's name?
@@cpcnw Paul Evans
I cant figure out why anyone would criticize Simon.. if anything, blame Joe for not cutting the rope, he knew the inevitable, he had a perfectly clear understanding of what was happening both over and under him. i do not understand what the people blaming Simon would have wanted him to do instead.
Joe didn't have a pocket knife as far as I know, cause he commented on what the situation would have been like if the knife was in his rucksack. I think he did say he wouldn't have the means to cut it himself and would probably have inadvertently led Simon to his death.
I enjoyed this as much as the film as you get true personality.. Joe sounds like a bad ass angry fooker and I think that temperament got him through.. his sensitivity and vulnerable side nearly got him killed hence wall and bottle
I think it does mean a lot to Simon but you can’t expect it to mean the same as it does for Joe. Both men had different experiences there.
Richard Hawking is such a morbid weirdo. He heard the screams and didn't want to wake Simon
I don't know why the interviewer is giving Simon such a hard time -- its like he is dying to try to get Simon to make some sort of admission or statement of guilt. Which is stupid and heartless -- I think Simon is a complete honest professional about his climbing career and relatioship with Joe --- and he has nothing to be apologetic about. And Joe comes off as whiney....which he definitely isn't..stopped watching this three quarters of the way. The book was brilliant.
Joe has severe PTSD from this event as anyone would and he was constantly triggered with this trauma of coming back to this horrific place. As for Simon and what he’s had to endure from the gas lighting BBC and public, he has his own PTSD from this event. It’s enough that they lived through this let alone recreate it. There’s no comparison to what each man lives with and was forced to endure for every decision they made.
🙌 👏 🙏 🤝 👍. . . you are a very sensitive "pschologist" . . .
Adventure heros they are. And also the 2 guys are heros because they share the story as it probably was to all our others.
Any muppet who thinks less of Simon is just that. He pulled off the greatest single man rescue of all time lowering Joe down that face knowing he'd still have to get him through the glacier IF he got him down. The overhang at the end was cruel luck but even then he obviously made the right call as even if Joe had died, Simon would have got out and if he hadn't cut it, they both certainly would have died.
I like to see them together alive
Did the producers bring along a therapist to help any of them? It's really disgraceful..it's PTSD they're both going thru especially Joe...I'm really sad and angry for them watching this.
They called it "Bomb Alley" not "Death Alley". Jo was actually really struggling emotionally during this although you may not realise it. He talks about it in the newer edition of Touching The Void which I have also read as well as the original. Shame the camera guy was so in their faces with the questions
Funny how Simon was bunt about why they came back though.
The "perfect" climber would not have cut the rope and they both would have died. Its about as useful as a Captain going down with his ship instead of deciding to try to swim away and help his fellow sailors survive.
Just watched a video on Rob Hall who died on Everest because he didn't want to leave the other climber. Not even sure what's the right thing to do in that instance. I suppose it depends on your personality. Having to live with yourself afterwards is a tortuous thing. I always remember an account of a plane crash where a niece couldn't undo the seatbelt to free her aunt who was hanging upside down after the crash. Eventually the niece realised she couldn't free her aunt and said "Can I go now?" and the aunt said "if you want to." The aunt actually died hanging in the seat. Hard decisions in these situations
I randomly found the movie on HD-DVD -- excellent -- some of this video makes me sad though. I agree with other commenters that re-enacting this trauma for the climbers seems unnecessary at times.
Again with the Laura Croft Tibetan-esque music for a mountain in Peru.
I agree.. really crass..there is a great tradition of Quechua music in the Peruvian Andes....and I don’t mean pan pipes!
Should have never been a discussion about cutting the rope. 2 options, one logical. No need to think back, but years of unnecessary discussion. That would annoy the hell out of anyone. Also he didn’t have the spotlight for obvious reasons, and he doesn’t care about it. He moved on way faster than anyone else, but everyone just pulls him back to something that wasn;t as significant for him.
Yess Richard
These filmmakers are assholes for re-traumatizing Joe with no emotional support present or prepared. That’s careless and irresponsible. Did no one think to talk to a psychologist before putting him through weeks of recreations? I mean these guys are so disconnected from their subjects that they thought 1. Ya let’s totally get ppl back on that incredibly unsafe mountain and then make joe and Simon watch and 2. Let’s make joe recreate and relive the most horrible experience of his life over and over. Cool.
good documentary but an awkward watch - no love lost between all of the men
Probably there has never been "love" between them.
But sad no very special friendship has grown after all what happened. Perhaps they were to young. Or to egoistic though.
The movie was really well done. Very traumatic for them to go back there again though.
BratBusters Parenting the movie was terribly done. Did you read the book?
The movie ended with them still in the tent with a man on the brink of death. It should have continued the story up until Simon was stable in the hospital. They were in a precarious situation still and I want to know details about how they got out of it. A couple of sentences about a mule ride to the hospital isn't enough for me.
What a story... Bleas them
It's stunning that the others can't figure out why one feels strongly and the other not so much its easy one held the blade the other plummeted into hell one it was a moment the other an eternity one could justify the other hadn't the luxury
I have just watched touching the void again and wonder why people turned against Simon for the decision he made to cut the rope because they both came out of it alive and had he have not done so things could have been very different. I am not a mountaineer and do not know how else they could have both come out of it alive. Was there another method available to have got Joe up the rope - if not what else could simon have done? Maybe someone out there has a suggestion.
Susanna Reid I am not a mountaineer but in my viewing of the film there was no other way to get Simpson's body weight off the rope. Impression I get from some elements of the mountaineering community (as a layman) is that it would have been more honourable for them to have both died on the mountain. Work that one out!
I thought the very fact he didnt leave after Joe broke his leg all the way up the face was a super human feat of heroics. I do not have the fortitude to be a climber but I do know that at a certain point if you get hurt and can not walk you stay where you are and die. That is the deal you make when you attempt to summit. No one owes you their life and it makes no sense to both die if one has a chance. 90% of climber would have left him then and he was quite aware of that I believe. Simon went above and beyond and very nearly died for it. In fact if the rope hadnt been cut Joe would most likely have died from wind shear. He was protected in that crevas so as you said it makes NO sense to reidicule the man.
Read the book.
After watching this video about the production, it could also be just another attempt of the film crew to nodge public opinion against simon as if he had something to be ashamed for.
No doubt that experience would have to be a cause for PTSD. A brave man to go back there. A bit like war veterans going back to the place where they were shot or a mate had his head blown off in combat. Never an easy thing! Flashbacks obviously are very real and is a traumatic experience both in the initial experience and in returning to the site.
Joe Simpson is the Epitome of the Will to survive. Yates is a bold and reliable companion. 2 mountaineering role models to aspire too. Shakespeare; A nice subject to Study academically but the reality of comparing the characters of Hamlet with these factual events is merely pure fiction. Joe & Simon are true spirits who lived to climb.
Poor guy. He looked totally traumatized, as anyone would.
The price of a thrilling life MUST be paid anyway mate . . . .
How can documentary filmmakers who are supposed to have a certain sense of sensitiveness about people's emotions come up with the fatal idea of taking traumatized people back to the place of the trauma AND asking them to reenact these situations? I don't get that. The final film was pretty good actually, but the scenes where Joe played himself without even being recognizable were just not necessary.
So why the hell did they do that? Probably just for this making of video and for getting "real emotions" out of Joe? Shame on the filmmakers, seriously.
derHaseimPfeffer money
That's the media for you!!!!!
it must have been therapeutical to go back there
Did you watch the video?
Watching ''Touching the Void'' ....l can tell you that l am glad that those three came back for a bit to do that. l think cutting the rope was right. Joe himself _probably_ lived because Simon had done so! l have NO CLUE what it was like for Joe ...or Simon! lts a humbling story! :D
The guy who left his mate is a real see you next Tuesday
"see you next Tuesday" - what does that mean???
@@cpcnw it's slang for C-U-N-T
A psychologist was and is missing here!
I would never cut the rope on family, someone i loved or a best friend but just a climbing buddy that you knew wouldn't of even tried to get you down of course you would with no hesitation, im amazed it took his so long, hungry, thirsty, blizzards risk of death and knowing he is going to kill you. Obviously if he new that when he fell they would both miraculously land safe in the crevese you would fall with but no one would expect that and anyway he thought he was dead. Only thing im confused about and makes me suspicious is that they never reported it when he got to Richard and that he never needed medical attention straight away! Why didn't he call for rescue straight away or tell his family? Thats the only strange thing
No mobiles.
It’s a shame that the trip ended up being an unhealthy experience for Joe. He was pressured into going, and he never felt comfortable for a single moment. I really wish the filmmakers hadn’t pushed that on him.
You can understand the different perspectives that are going to clash. The doco team are going to get wrapped up in the minutiae of production and that is going to become intolerable especially to Joe, who has to open those dark memory recesses where everything was more or less safely deposited long ago. The doco team are thinking like the general public: from the outside these two guys went on an incredible journey of near death experience. But our fascination doesn't always warrant prodding these guys into recollection.