1987: Meet the GOTHS | London Plus | Classic BBC Music Report | BBC Archive
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- čas přidán 23. 08. 2022
- "In a shrine to the worst excesses of Bram Stoker and Edgar Allan Poe, the goths congregate..."
London Plus reporter Antonia Higgs skulks around a graveyard to investigate a strange new youth subculture, the goths. She chats to Sean Cronin of The Screaming Marionettes, Dave Vanian of the Damned and fashion designer Laurie Vanian about the appeal of goth music, fashion and culture. Can goth survive in the mainstream, or is it inherently underground?
Originally broadcast 29 May, 1987.
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Old goths never die... they just...look like they have.
Funniest thing I ever saw, many years ago, was a load of Goths on the rides at a funfair. Not knocking them, I'm sure they were having a lot of fun - but it did look strange.
fat guy from cure
Ha! Fantastic! I loved being a goth, such fun.
The goths went to retail. That's what happened lol
I loved some of the band's, Banshees & Birthday Party...but like punk it was better as an underground thing...than everyone tryna look like Siouxie or Pete Murphy.
It warms my cold, dead heart that goth culture has persisted to this day.
Not a culture
@@marknewbold2583 what would you call it?
Unfortunately it hasnt i was interested (as i always loved GOTH MUSIC) instead i was greeted by a bunch of people listening to lil peep yung blud and a bunch of early 2000s rock and emo music.GOTH IS DEAD
@@poptart6210 It's alive and well, just a bit out of the public eye now... we still exist, plus, there's still new goth bands forming like Mystic Priestess, Lebanon Hanover, or Haunt Me
There is quite the epidemic of a misunderstanding of what Goth is, though, I must admit. A lot of people seem to think that goth is just being depressed and wearing black which it is not. And so many people get confused when I bring up that my favourite band is the Sisters of Mercy and not something like Billie Eilish or 21 Pilots or whatever.
But no, Goth is still alive, just a bit more spread out and smaller but still alive and well and I don't think it will die anytime soon
@@ladyvioletoftheravens2395 It started bcos all early punk bands sounded different, The Damned got a following, the Banshees etc then Bauhaus were probably a blueprint.
Some of the shite that passes for it nowadays...ld rather listen to skapunk & l never listen to skapunk...it's an abomination.
It took until the second wave of goth rock for the BBC to actually notice it as a cultural thing. And 1987 is well into the second wave, since the Sisters of Mercy, Fields of the Nephilim and the like had already released multiple LPs and the Damned had already gone full goth for at least two or more years.
Incorrect. John Peel had been playing Goth bands on his BBC Radio Shows since the beginning. Perhaps there were proper reports in previous years.
The Batcave opened in 1982.
@@pressureworks I was aware of the Peel sessions, but I was talking more about the news side. It's 1987, but they seem to be treating goth as if they just encountered some shocking new cultural trend.
@@julianhermanubis6800 silly trend yes, shocking, no.
@@pressureworks Regardless, goth is fun. It shares its flair for the melodramatic with certain types of metal music, and the vintage horror film esthetic is entertaining. I am sort of glad for people who carried the fashion side to its extremes, because I wouldn't want the entire world to be full of accountants.
things like this make me wish i was around in the 80s. i love the goth scene now so much but something about the 80s goth scene is just magical to me
I turned 50 a fortnight ago. I was a goth in the mid 80s in Belfast..Good times, despite it being in the midst of 'The Troubles'.
Magical? Hmm idkw it reminds me of scooby doo on one end so u could be right and on the other hand it's seems a but too much for me, ig it's not my cup of tea
@@nope4309 yeah, not for you then
@@donnasmyth45 Me too. I was a goth from the mid 80s onwards. I still only wear mostly black to this day.
There was no panopticon.
Dave Vanian is seriously one of the most beautiful human beings that ever lived. He was like movie star hot. lol
In my recent trip to London, I spotted more than a few aging goths trooping it out to the bitter end. You have to admire it. And Dave Vanian is still 🖤🔥
What they still dress up and look like that now at 50/60+ years old? lmao
@@brianmorecombe2726 Some even looked ln the 70's age group. I like to think I'd be down for another mohawk in my 70's. Pink and all.
@@ambrsanford3703 Each to their own,just a bit funny
Like Teddy Boys
@@brianmorecombe2726 Actually, if you're dressing up like you're in a Hammer horror film every day, it's timeless in a weird way. A lot of mainstream 1980s fashion looks more dated or retro than the goth stuff, which was always kind of "out there."
"Sorry, but I'm afraid your graveyard has a serious goth infestation."
Only five years too late. I was a Goth in 1982. Ah, well, you got(h) there eventually, BBC.
I’m proud to say it, but I’ve been a part of the Goth community for now over a decade and a half. I will always remember being in the car as a 6 year old listening to my moms CD’s and even being as young as I was, completely falling in love with the music immediately. The Cure, Echo and the Bunnymen, New Order, Depeche Mode, all of it just opened my eyes to what the world of music could be. I didn’t have to listen to Taylor Swift and Maroon 5 like all the other kids, I could fall in love with a sound that spoke to me. So, I grew up doing so, listening to the music, learning about the culture, and even adding in my other interests which fit themselves in quite nicely as well. Tim Burton and Literary Writing being two examples. So, now as an 18 year old, here I am studying English Literature, Creative Writing, Film, Poetry, and even Theatre. To think I could have told the small child I was back then, the child who was singing True Faith by New Order during 4th grade history class one day, that they would grow up to still love everything that made the others call them “weird” or a “freak” and continue to embrace it and love themselves, I know they would be so proud.🖤🥀
“You can’t allow other people to put a price on what you do, otherwise you don’t consider what you do to have any value at all, and that’s nonsense.”
-Robert Smith🕷🕸
you're awesome man
I was a fringe 'goth girl' in the 80s...and now that I'm years old, the majority of my wardrobe still consists of black, with many gothic touches (I do have a 'respectable' day job so I can't get too crazy). I've always been a night owl, so the goth look seemed to fit!
I love seeing elder Goths.
@@Mynnia Criinge word
lol
Are you a goth?
No, I’m a vampire.
What do you mean?
LOL
In 1987 I visited a shop that (had) sold mainly black, Goth oriented clothes. To my surprise Prince's Sign o' the Times album was being played in its entirety and the clothing had changed. Notably, that year The Cult had reorientated to an American rock audience. 1988, Siouxsie and the Banshee's released Peepshow which felt like the end of an era. I recall one or two 'alternative' clubs playing Pump up the Volume etc - rave and 'madchester' was about to happen.
"Notably, that year ('87) The Cult had reorientated to an American rock audience. 1988, Siouxsie and the Banshee's released Peepshow which felt like the end of an era." *Yup!*
Yeah, all of my favourite bands started releasing really commercialized albums around that time, not just Siouxsie Peepshow and The Cult Sonic Temple, but Echo and the Bunnymen, Love & Rockets, Depeche Mode, R.E.M., The Cure, Billy Idol all made bids for mainstream MTV success around then.
Lucky I was into both the goth scene and Madchester, remember buying Peepshow and Bummed (Happy Mondays) on the day of the release of Bummed. Peepshow came out a couple of months earlier but I didn't get round to buying it until a few months after. Good Times. 👍
!
And in the nineties it was the Normie imitators
Glad people are sharing what actually went on
Posting this kind of stuff for years and never, or rarely, seeing others posting the same
ha ha
The fantastic Patricia Morrison talking...the damned and from sisters of mercy......
Thank you for sharing this gem 🖤🕸🦇
Witching Hour UK is my favorite band
Awesome. Thanks for this 🦇
In defence of goths and there creepy repressed serial killer vibes I think there's a case to be made for the return of capes.
I really want to see the people in this video of how they are now & whether they’ve changed or not
Dave Vanian is still recording and touring with The Damned.
*Waves* Hiya! Well, from the people that are still alive (Wilf the vampire (the guy on the left in the cover pic) is no longer with us. At least three in the Marionettes audience are also gone. But, Sean pretty much looks the same (minus the hair). And Mikey Bean (the guy coming out from behind the gravestones with Marnie) is also bald, but sports a magnificent dyed-green beard now. My hair is no longer black and backcombed (grey and ponytailed), and I am down to just eyeliner now when clubbing, I look pretty much the same but about 50 pounds heavier (it happens when you love cheese!)
I miss reading poetry with the goths 🖤
you're looking in the wrong place if you can't find them *shudders* tiktok
Unleash the poetry 😊
@@corvideity lol lmitators and tiktok is not Goth
@@layditms2 i was being sarcastic
Frying Tonight! What a carry on!
Oh to be part of the goth scene in the mid 80’s in the UK…
I said it wasn't a phase!
Mum : David was always a soft soul growing up
Goth : muuuum...shut uuuuup!
Kinda jammed between punk new wave and right before new romantic movement. I suppose this caught on more so in recent years. Dave was ways a punk vampire. The swindle continues...this documentary is the height of it all and also if you went to a Depeche Mode and Cure concert you'd see the same goth peeps circa 1987.
Those wolf sounds at the beginning were used in quite a few bbc productions and the thunder sounds.
a strangely sympathetic portrayal
They are so SO cool... I wish i could look like them, to talk with them, drink something or idk... I love this culture so much, im so glad im part of it
Vampires aren’t real unless you Count Dracula 🤦🏻♂️🤣😆
Fangs ain't wot they used to be.😈
That took me a minute.
Haw haw haw🤣🤣🤟
See what you did there 👏 😂
Awesome music, incredible haircuts, clothes and make up 🖤
It has almost faded away in the end, but not quite, as in some parts of the world the gothic subculture is still a thing. Germany, for example.
@TUbIuyola dunno about imitation, but the average age of Wave Gotik Treffen visitors is about 35-40+ years old. So, the subculture is definitely dying, but still has enough followers to organize the parties and music festivals, some of which are big - WGT alone attracts about 20k people every year. And there are Orkus, Zillo and some others...
I know of teenagers, now, who are Goths.
@@Mistydazzle they must be rare breed then :)
It’s Emo posers now. Not the same at all
@@marsoblivi0n945 is Emo still a thing? I am shocked if it is :-[ ]
I wonder if “what we do in the shadows” got ideas from this 😂
The little fat fella is Wilf. He was a regular around London gigs, he'd always be at The Damned, Dr and the Medics, and Playn Jayn
Weird… I thought it was all over by 87… Marc had left his Mambas, the Love Cats had pooped in your shoe, Siouxsie had chopped her hair down and the Sisters had gotten lost in their own dry ice.
Nah, it limped on for about 5 more years, before Cybergoth took over. Never gonna be as good as it was then, Sweet spot!
@@PhoenixOne I have to say that whilst I no longer look (very) goth, my heart is forever goth... goth unto death? hahahahaha
Ha llovido mucho ya
Quite interesting.
that dog howl sound is classic. I'm wondering who recorded it. Anyone?
That old SNL skit "Goth Talk" they used to do in the 90's really got it right didn't they? With Molly Shannon and Chris Kittan and the theme song was Bauhaus "Bela Lugosi's Dead." Feckin' brilliant piss take.
I thought Goth had faded away & them i went on holiday to Whitby, it's the last bastion of Gothdom.
"We don't like fitting with the mainstream...aha, Duran Duran," said the most Duran Duran looking fellow in the video, lol!
In my defence, I was absolutely pissed by the time we got there. I was rambling to that Journalist for a straight 5 minutes, and they cut it down to that sound bite! Sheesh! And the make-up? We were asked by Sean to go overboard on the make-up and jewelry to look stranger than usual. But I'll take that Duran remark as a compliment! Cheers!
I was very, VERY, DRUNK at that point!
Simon Lebon and Nick Rhodes flirted with goth imagery when they did their Arcadia side project.
Enjoyed this, even if there was a bit too much of the kind of pretentious knobbery that got Goth a bad name.
See most any music documentary, especially the punk rock ones, and you will see nearly exactly the same foolishness.
I was 17 in 1987 :)
I love it )
The first wave of Gothic, hmmm, to me when I heard UK Decay and bought the album by the Dark.
" from the tombs of punk rock" dum dum dum.... not for the faint hearted. Hysterical
oooooooooooh dave
what he said about goth never hitting the mainstream is untrue Siouxsie and the banshees did it
On the whole; broadly speaking is what he was saying.
Siouxsie was never comfortable being labelled 'Goth' - being linked/associated with the 'hammer horror' crowd.
What can I say, I was wrong... And also very, very, drunk. But I must disagree with you on one point, The Banshees were punk, and only got 3 minutes on TOTP doing Dear Prudence, The Cure were not Goth either. Bauhaus, Love & Rockets, The Sisters and The Mission had stronger claims. Next time I shall make wilder claims, and be more drunk!
@@hazelwray4184 That was exactly what I was saying! Thank you Hazel!
@Personal Jesus Dark themed songs on the albums Black Celebration to Ultra doesn't make them Goth, besides, they slipped along from New Wave, Light Industrial Dance, Stadium Rock, and some brooding Bluesy AOR before ending back where they started, Stripped down electronic synth pop. Top band, great live, but NOT Goth
Definitely hit the mainstream
That intro 🤣. So stereotypical I can't. Also, we goths are beautiful ppl💜🖤
" OH MY GOD "...
Cool
The time Alternative Subculture was at it’s Prime Until After 1994 When it tragically became a fashionable look with more metal music influence. Old Punk Never Dies! Forever Undead
💀🪦🦇🕸🧷⛓
*Yup. "Net goths" came in and commandeered. And they mainstreamed everything.*
Lol It was the Normies who did it in the nineties
Goth scene in the 80s was OG
seventies
lmao
Goth scene in the 80's of the 5th century was OG
Anyone know the name of the "real" vampire at 1:44? he looks familiar.
That was Wilf, sadly my friend is no longer with us
❤️❤️❤️
Ooh, I do luv a good GOTH!
Awesome Dawson, Goth, then.., now.. forever and always. Good to see Dave and Patricia in their younger incarnation. The damned and sisters of mercy represented by those two. By the way I hate skulls, bats and all that Satan shite. Love velvet and the creative side of goth fashion.
I think you'll find that is Laurie vanian , Dave's first wife whom is a seamstress. Also American just as Patricia from the sister's of mercy whom Dave has been married to since the late 90's.
@@kirkgibson4502 : if you say so, no reason to doubt you. Not entirely convinced myself, either way great clip. Wonder what the vampires up to these days.?.
@@unkle_Enkil Kirk is 100% correct. That is Laurie not Patricia.
Guy's... let's not bicker over this issue. Had a poster on my wall of the goth goddess during my teenage years, must have knocked one out a couple of hundred if not thousands of times over her likeness, so I'm convinced it's her. But if I'm mistaken then so be it...Still have that poster somewhere, will have to dig it out at somepoint and er..well you know..☺
@@unkle_Enkil It's definitely Laurie not Patricia! Patricia was in the States at that time and never had a clothes shop.
Hey guys who was recording me?! 🧛🏼🧛🏻♀️
It seems the lines have always been blurred on what a Goth is, but one thing is true: we do lurk around cemeteries a lot.
❤
Boys don't cry
Being Goth myself, I’m hip!
Hahahaha ha sorry but I can't with 1 40 moment😂🤣
The irony of "their day is coming" 😄
This is literally a time machine. It looks like it could have been filmed present day. 🦇🦇🦇
song name?
Was the sisters of mercy not a 80s gothic rock band
Someone should show this video to "Gothic" KingCobraJFS.
I love gothic culture. What's ironic is that I'm a catholic and although I do pray and stuff, I'm not extremely religious so I'm able to balance my religion along with my love for gothic culture lol. 🖤
I would actually describe the atmosphere and aesthetic of the catholic religion as the epitome of gothic. The architecture of a cathedral, for example, the choir etc
Truth brother im sick of hearing people who belong in a music scene that dosen't know or understands what the music represent even do its obvious cheers...
🌹🕯️⚕️🕯️🌹Beautiful
i just love goths. go for it you spooky boys and girls
Living in a latin catholic country, I sometimes kind of envy the Protestant Lutheran and Anglican countries. They seems to tolerate more the sadness feeling and the Death topic, seems like they know how to deal with melancholy.
Death is taboo worldwide of course but in my opinion it is literally denied in latin catholic countries.
Happiness in Catholic countries is often childishly flaunted and it doesn't come from acceptance and tolerance but rather from denying melancholy and all its forms.
Is there anyone here who comes from Northern countries and can confirm that? I mean, do you feel free to feel sad and don't be afraid of showing that?
So.... You're showing me that there's still hope for us balding goths? Praise the Dark One, indeed!!
Oh definitely, especially in the cities where the industrial scene and goth scenes amalgamated, bald heads abound
@@Proxyy7 Oi I still have my hair, you cheeky git!
@@PhoenixOne Hey, it's not my fault half of the elder goths look like Nosferatu now, willingly or not
@@Proxyy7 '' elder ''
lol
Sisters of mercy is my favourite band
what's the band at 3:20 ?
The Damned or not?
I think The Marionettes.
@@leoadr Wow, cool. Thanks
@@MAKEDUMBSTUFF The song is Screaming Master.
@@leoadr 🤝😉
🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤🦇
odd that they don;t feature any known bands of the subculture.
I suppose they wanted to avoid licensing?
But in 87 copyright laws were still pretty lax.
They could have got away with a few snippets of Siouxsie, Bauhaus, Christian Death etc.
But to be honest, I think this was just part of your usual sensationalism of the time.
I remember a lot of similar stories on US TV about punk rockers.
Usually the typical pearl clutching about a society in decline.
Guy at 3:51 was hot
I’ve seen this video on Facebook from the BBC archives of a woman in the 80s getting a goth makeup. I can’t find it but it’s exactly what you would be looking for
Im still a still cold vampiress. Lavina Lilas,1985 only legal hidden former wife of Sebastian Bach@Skid Row.
🖤👁🖤👁🖤
Pfff~Hahahahahahaaaah! *snort* Oh my goth, I needed that. 🦇🦇🦇
See at first I thought this was a comedy segment because of the way it was so dramatically cheesy. When we used to drink and dress-up which was pretty much every weeknight, that's going to ship we used to joke about when there weren't club nights! When I first started going to goth clubs way back in BC (Before Computers) when I wasn't even old enough to be getting in I'll tell you that, we dressed up to the nines and did our black-and-white photos in the most beautiful and cinematic looking graveyards we could find. However we never lost our sense of humor. And in our minds we were hearing all that cheesy ridiculous music, coffins creaking when they opened up, while faking British accents picturing dramatic smoke machines that weren't there. You feel me right? The journalists who did this piece kept referring to goths as "Gothics", which I'm pretty sure is not proper English, but whatever. Perhaps this was just so Grand spanking new to her attention that she really was thrown off a bit? However that really doesn't explain the one guy when she asked him if he thought of himself again as "a Gothic" and he said, "No, I'm a vampire! You know vampire? Hisssss!" I thought for sure he had to be kidding?! Vampires I am quite sure are fictional creatures. Energy vampires, well, that's a different story. Sorry Ann Rice fans. Twilight Twinks? Oh you guys got a lot of therapy in front of you kids. I'm not going to touch that one. But then Davey Vanian was right on the money. What a great person to represent us like that? It's people like him that made me sign up for the scene in the first place and dedicate my entire life to it. I used to promote my own clubs, help other promoters and DJs who would be starting up their own clubs, and was proud to be DJ Jezzebella in the San Francisco goth scene for well over 25 years. This piece is very conflicting. However I am really hoping to at least talk to Davey Vanian tonight at the Belasco Theater since The Damned is playing in about an hour or two. Too bad my Phantasmagoria pressed white vinyl record limited edition that they only released less than 1000 of I think? Maybe 500 of? Too bad it's no longer in my possession! 'But maybe Davey's soul will be after dark!! Mooo-wahh-ha-ha!! That truly would be Grimly Fiendish! Mooo-wahh-ha-ha!!!'
Try to picture that last quote in a cheesy Transylvanian dramatic vampire voice, k? " Now you feel me on why I thought it was it was a comedy?
Mission accomplished. He's funny, he's nice, he's got a great sense of humor, and he's a very good listener actually! Didn't even know that he was married to Patricia Morrison (from Sisters of Mercy amongst other endeavors) She's another one of my phrickin' heroes! I saw the pretty lady in this piece listed as Mrs. Vanian, and all I could think was gosh she looks so much like Patricia Morrison! Huh? I guess everybody in England around that time was just pretty and look like her. Doy. It doesn't just look like her it is her. I'm fired.
Jesus Christ, it's Jerry Only.
Genial
There were great unique bands that influenced Goth Siouxsie and the Banshees Bauhaus The Birthday Party Joy Division and The Cure they filrted with dark imagery and subversive subtext in their lyrics and music.What came after was crap!
I agree. Those bands had a broader frame of reference.
OMG This is hilarious ! LoL
"Its links with black magic" 🤣
Radio Werewolf.......
Yeah A i never liked the sun
yeah Because Pony Plush, Anime and Gaming is so Goth
goth dammit!
♫ Old Mcdonald was a goth
E I E M O ♫
Richmond should have stayed in his room 😤
80s UK looks like modern day Eastern Europe.
Some parts of the (1970's/80's) UK looked like Eastern Europe. It's no coincidence that Bowie's 'Berlin period' resonated - Joy Division picked up on that vibe.
Trying be a ghost, much more fun
We are goths4u 😂
Everyone should be free and be allowed to be who they are and decide for themselves how they like to look and wear.
I think it’s over exaggerated really with the word goths and really just this video making them seem more darker with the man dressed up as Dracula as if goths rise from the dead every night when that’s not the case I think really and that they’re not trying to be scary or horrific and that’s just the way they choose to dress and the way they feel about themselves and what they believe in.
True Goths🌚
Picking curious fruit 💀
A bit old hat by 1987.
Uau
lol Why yall styled like how we grew up ?
vampires and goth are different....