More on Doors - and why I don't make them this way...
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- čas přidán 9. 03. 2017
- Hi there. In this video I explain why I stopped making cabinet doors by planting mock-panelling onto a backing board. TLDR; it's a lot more work than it first seems to do it well, and hinges were always problematic. Enjoy!
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10/10. Perfectly explained. Step by step through the subtle but crucial drawbacks that would likely only become apparent after you gained some experience of making them this way. Been dipping into this channel for ages. Now doing a 'Netflix' style binge from the start to see what I've missed. Absolute gold. Paul Sellers, Peter Millard, Robin Clevett, and a good dollop of Charlie DIYte and you can figure out anything!
It's simple there is a right way to do things and a wrong way. This video shows that Mr.Millard is a very skilled and next level carpenter. The fact that these subtle nuances bother him is a great thing. It's about really caring for what you are doing and doing it to the fullest. "Integrity" is key. Great job sir!
+Nesley Heiney Thanks! 👍
Well said! Couldn't agree more.
Bravo
Peter you are correct to make the doos in the five pice way you do. All you reasons yo give are correct. Personally I prefer a tenon to a floating tenon. But the main reason to make the doors the way you do is if you glue the MDF on the face the door becomes unbalanced and can bow unless you balance it on the back
Thank you, Peter.
I love the "why" part. That's what makes it worthwhile for me. Thank you.
+mozismobile Thanks!
2:43 whilst I’m sure you’re absolutely right that the best way to make shaker doors is the way you did it, surely people are more likely to have a veneer Pinner or similar than a routing table!
Routing tables are quite cheap for a DIY version, or make your own easy enough
Sprinkle a little household salt on the glue before you assemble and clamp, it stops the movement!
That's many years of experience condensed in 14 min. As usual the solution is economical, reliable and quick to make Thanks for sharing.
We built our full kitchen like this, Ikea carcasses and doors like this, we didn't pin them just glued and painted, rebated euro hinges, they're still here 20 years later and I'm just about to repaint them. They are heavy but I like them like that.
I have always done shaker doors the mock panelling way for painted MDF and then for real wood I use the traditional method with a veneered MDF panel and real wood rails and styles. To stop the things moving about during the glue up I just add a few grains of fine sand onto the glued face before putting them together which bites into the surface as they are clamped preventing any movement. For a large door on a wardrobe for instance the traditional method is by far the best though, even for painted MDF.
I CNC machine also I cut a relief on the back and I making the front so the door doesn’t warp.
Can't beat a 10mm Dowelmax in 18mm green MDF for the frame, with a 6mm routed (stopped) panel groove. It's very simple, accurate and glues up nice and square.
All these years after this video was made and I'm embarking on a full kitchen build, starting from refurbishment of 100 year old hardwood floors. This video is a godsend and I'll be building the mock Victorian doors the exact way that you don't do them any more! Drilling the hinge body pilot holes 3mm into the 9mm "stiles" should fix the push-out problem. Thank you!
There’s a more recent version of this video where I edgeband the door; works well. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thank you, Peter, I'll definitely check it out. I'm going to break all the rules with mock shaker, Victorian or "heritage" beading to the inside of "rails" and "stiles" and country v-groove MDF panels off the shelf (or just plain if they clash with the beading). Will practice on direct replacement doors for my ultra-budget Kaboodle kitchen (flat pack from our Bunnings chain) at home before tackling the new big kitchen in my old house. If it's a disaster, I'll just chuck the old doors back on. Cheers from Australia and thanks for sharing your knowledge, even if it's stuff like this you just don't like to do any more.
I've got some 25mm mdf to make some doors to cover an electrical unit. Client wants a similar moulding to match their oak door panels. Basically shaker doors with mitred moulding.
You can make that type of door on a table saw. Use the blade as a router alternative, I made hundreds of doors on a cheap nutool table saw, even made fielded panels on it.
How about if you trying to use a contact cement instead.Simple jig in the middle will help placing all the rails on the right spot.In that case you don’t need to use any mechanical fixtures and you can achieve very strong joint with hardly visible seams.One of the benefit is very fast production time.I think you can try it ,works for me all the time.
Thanks. You stopped me making another set of mistakes. Thanks. Ian
Just made your style door. Excellent 👍👍👍
It was a good question posed by a keen observer.....explanation provided by you demonstrating the 'why' made this a 'worth my while' CZcams watch! Thank you for sharing. Cheers
Thank you! 👍👍
This kind of video really shows why experience matters... none of this would have even occurred to me
Thanks! 👍
Extremely helpful video.
I really appreciated this video! I’m going to be making doors for a cabinet for my van so this will help me greatly.
Just found the video. Very informative. Thank you
Another great video Peter, answering a commonly debated question as to why you do a thing a certain way. As always well explained and demonstrated
Love how you explain the logic of your reasoning.
If a DIYer is prepared to do it themselves, make mistakes and work in a less efficient manner to get to the route to victory they can, as long as it is at their own expense and not a customers expense if done by a tradesman.
You are very clear in your videos. The 15mm thick sheet material and nailing from the front panel and having to fill make sense too not much 15mm timber out there in the UK in the grand scheme. Also more holes to fill on the front and potential for more work to sand down and finish again.
Thanks for the effort you go to, all in the effort or logical and efficient working methods.
Thumbs up.
Wow!
Thank you very much for this eye-opener video.
Pleasure 👍👍
Thanks Peter and thanks Rachel. Very informative.
Simon Hopkins Thanks!
Thanks again Peter, very informative and well presented, I'm learning a lot from your videos please keep them coming
Christopher Reid My pleasure, thanks for watching! Lots more to come, stay tuned... 😄
Thanks Peter. Always good to see a pattern of thought. Makes understanding for us beginners all the easier.
+From this to that 👍
Nice video Peter. Many thanks
Andy M My pleasure, thank you!
hi peter your videos are very well made just like ur work. Love being informed by the video you make. thanks 😆😆
Matt Robertson Thanks!
Appreciate the review and explanation on door construction. You have helped me decide how I'm making my next set of doors. Thanks.
Adam Regan Thanks!
I do this door quite a lot 12mm ultralight for the panel and 9mm cut at 15 degrees for the stile rail element. I make them 1/2" big then saw them down eliminating the seam. I glue one stile on each with spring clamps, then the other 3 parts . Makes a great door.
Spot on, very informative. I've made doors for wardrobes and cupboards pretty much every way I could think over the last 15 years but until recently after watching your videos never considered loose tenons before, although in hindsight it makes perfect sense. I have gone down the route of pining and glueing 6mm mdf, also rebating 18mm mdf to fit a 12mm panel to the back to form a 6mm panel shaker style door but the time it takes to make and the unavoidable join lines to the back of the door, overtime with use, look an eyesore as well as being extremely time consuming. Ive got a few doors to make for a built in wardrobe so I'm giving the shaker style loose tenon style a go, albeit with a 1/2" router on the work bench (yet to invest in a router table). Many thanks for sharing your expertise with us, whole heartedly appreciated.
Thanks Paddy!Like yourself, I've made doors every way possible, and the loose tenon approach is far and away the fastest and easiest way that I've done it. My router's just slung under a bench with a home-made removable fence btw - doesn't need to be anything fancy to be effective.👍
Thank you for explaining so well and putting effort to show the downside of the options.
I was wondering and looking for answers for the technique to use for the doors and your one video answered all.
Thank you a ton.
My pleasure, and thanks for taking the time to comment! Good to hear these older videos are still providing useful info. 👍👍
Legends are forever!
Clearly a talented joiner , love your videos , I was very lucky serving my time where I did I have seen this very thing argued about on the floor of a workshop and the traditional ie jointed piece always held out to be stronger and once you have your tools set up its very simple and efficient to run the material and assemble
Thanks! 👍
I really like your approach to explaining why you do certain things in an order you consider best. Very nice perspective of how certain approaches lead to unforseen problems if using some hardware. I really like the way you addrrss this to your audience(such as myself). I really like ykur chanel.
Thank you! 👍
Great explanation Peter thank you
Glad it was helpful, thanks! 👍
Hi Peter I have watch a lot of doors being made as I am starting on my Owen kitchen soon and the doors you make seem so much simpler and it makes sense love watching 10 minute workshop great job👍👍👍👍
Thanks Brian! 👍
All great points, Peter. And also, much more satisfying to do the job 'properly'. Presently doing my own wardrobes using your loose tenon method, with great results. Thanks...
Stephen O Sullivan Thanks! Look forward to seeing your video of your wardrobes 😄👍
I've made the Shaker style doors for various projects. The rails and stiles were joined with mortise and tenon joints. Your doors are simpler but I liked the look as they were being left exposed. Your would be good for me if they were being painted in which case I would do iy your way. Cheers.
The traditional way is definitely the better way to do it, although on price I always use 18mm backs and 6/9 mm fronts. Use heavy set Blum insert hinges. Never had a problem, just need to sand the edges well.
Old vid. Try the more recent one - #405, Shaker panel doors; czcams.com/video/jwGvYsvdCg4/video.html 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Yeah great video, that how I normally make them on a customers driveway 😂. Only difference I use a 1.6 roundover router bit around all the edges I've even user two glues , normal PVA and mitre bond to fix the rails down. Good if you are in a rush to finish.
Great video
Great video! Thumbs up! I appreciate the well thought out information, brother. However, I have to disagree with something. The video calls the first method the 'easy option' and some of the comments even call it 'lazy', but that isn't always the case. A lot of people, especially DIY-ers, don't have router tables or other methods for making grooves (or tongue and grooves, which are better for styles and rails, imo), so they work elsewhere to make up for it.
Don't get me wrong, if someone has the ability to make true shaker style doors (especially if they're a professional), and not just the facade, then that will always be the best option. However, assuming that someone makes a facade just because it's 'easy' isn't always correct.
Hi, and thanks for taking the time to comment. As I say in the first video, and repeat here in this one, the loose tenon approach is the easy option *compared to other methods of jointing e.g. mortice & tenon* . And again, as I say in that video and this, I've made thousands of doors over the course of my 20-odd years as a cabinetmaker, using every possible method of construction, and this video simply spells out why I stopped making them using the 'planted-on' frame. I know lots of people who have fitted furniture businesses who make doors in this mock-panel method, often with a 9mm 'frame' over a 12mm backer to give a solid 21mm door - but they finish them with an edgebander that costs as much as a small car - something that's definitely beyond the reach of most DIY enthusiasts.
I've never stated that this method is wrong, I've simply explained why I don't do them like this any more, and that in my opinion the loose-tenon method is the easiest way to make panelled doors for cabinets because it requires no special fixings other than a couple of clamps.. Yes IMO a router in a table is the safest way to do the groove - we have *very* strict health & safety laws in the UK regarding eg unguarded tablesaw blades - but there are other ways, as I'm sure you're aware. Cheers, Peter
@@10MinuteWorkshop Thank you very much for taking the time to respond, brother. Much appreciated! I agree, if you're a professional or even a woodworking enthusiast with the right equipment, then loose tenons (for repeatability and decreased errors) or integral tenons (if you're like me) are the better approach. I just don't agree that facades are made simply because they're easy, at least not always. Sometimes they're done this way because it's more accessible.
Great video Peter! Explains how and why cutting corners isn't such a good idea!
Thanks David! 👍
Very Nice explanation. Thank you. And btw almost a 1000 subscribers. Thats great.
Harry Wever Thanks! And yes, creeping towards the 1000 subs landmark 👍😀
Great video thanks for posting!
+Skullmonkey456 👍
Great video,thanks,
Great video. When I made some alcove cupboards, I sized them so I could get exactly 4 doors, 2 surfaces and the trims from a single sheet of 2.4 x 1.2 x 22mm. So I went with the other option of routing out the inner part of the shaker doors to a depth of 5mm. Super, super messy and it needs quite a bit of sanding, but it looks great and doesn't suffer from weak hinges. Ideally I would have done it properly but it would have meant spending more on material.
Well done Peter. I didn't know anyone else built doors like this. I do a slight variant of the construction process here. But the same end result... Except I like to use a hardwood face on the doors. A little more durability on the edges. Just gotta make sure you use stable wood so the shrinkage doesn't affect the end result on that outer edge.
I have built cabinet doors many ways as well. And I still use many of those methods depending on the job. surprisingly, traditional cope and stick is my least common method. My preferred for Shaker is the style you showed here and dont prefer. My second common door is a stopped dado for the panel and using a domino... I use this mainly for stained or clear coated doors. If for some reason I can't use either of those 2 methods then I'll see if I can use your preferred method, If all else fails then I will do to traditional cope and stick.
I've actually restored a few traditional cope and stick furniture pieces that have failed, and I also have some cope and stick cabinet doors in my house that have failed way too easily. I'm not a huge fan of it for those reasons. The risk of the traditional cope and stick and your preferred method are the same. When that dado goes all the way through the door stiles, it gets easier to break even though you get more glue surface. The edges that extend over the cope or the floating tenon in your case can be more easily broken when force is applied to that area. Especially if you are using a partial frame on edge banded cabinetry and you slam the door without soft close hinges.
Keeping the integrity of that stile's full structure on the end grain seems to be the strongest way to keep the door frame solid.... Or just using a solid panel like you are discussing in this video lol
The lazy man's door, a lot of unnecessary work for a low quality end product. An excellent video! Thanks
You also use more material to make an inferior product which seems counterproductive to me.
I think there is a place for this type of construction when one has not got a large complement of tools....
As for the rails/stiles sliding on the backing panel from the slippery glue ?
Add a salt cellar to your tool kit, sprinkle on whilst applying the glue & no more sliding !
U could also drill the hinge screw position (if u are on the joint) & glue in a couple 6mm wooden dowels...
😎
Needs to put glue on door and face piece then it won't part !
Hi Peter just found your channel. Love your content buddy great work
Thanks! Lots of vids under the bridge since this one. 😂👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop haha ye. but its often the old ones you stumble across. You gained a new sub from me
Peter - Thanks, just about to start this journey, so watching this has helped my decision. The other factor that goes against the mock paneling system is 'construction in balance', particularly seen with MDF. To all intents, one side is different from the other side, whilst this doesn't matter with a conventionally made door ,when laminated like the mock door, it can cause this in balance. Whether it's the glue or just structure but this method can be prone to bowing over time. You could apply the same panels on the backside and glue them on, but by the time you have done this then you might well have made a properly constructed door. Thanks for the videos, I often check you out before running off, leveraging knowledge and information is so powerful.
Thanks! 👌
I've made plenty of door like this 3/8 glued to 3 /8 and there ok . I oversize them 1/16 on every side and then trim it off on my table saw. along with spring clamps and pin nails my side seems come out pretty seemless. The place I really like to use this concept is on end paneling on islands . Or on exposed ends of cabinets I can cover my screws and give the exposed ends a false panel look with having to make a whole door by just adding 3/8 mdf to the sides.
Apprentice joiner doing something similar for a homer soon, thanks a lot big help
Pleasure! Glad to hear it’s been some help! 👍👍
Thanks for video . I made some wardrobes doors that are 2.1 metres high using 12 mm backer with 6 mm stiles I just glued them no pins and used European hinges they’ve been great . I used 4 hinges using a jig similar to the Kreg jig . I know not as good as loose tenon method which Is why I’m going to do my Kitchen doors that way
Cheers Mark. I did an updated version of this and the shaker-style door video recently (#405, Two Easy Doors) and honestly, I struggled to see the difference between the gamer-shaker edges that were left and the bones that were edgebanded, so nothing wrong with the overall technique - hinge issues aside - but I do prefer the loose-tenon method. 👍👍
I am just about to tackle two cupboard doors using 12 mm MDF, and using the method you don’t recommend. I enjoyed your presentation, and I agree it’s a lot of work for an inferior finish. It’s just not practical for me to invest in a router, or a drill press for that matter. It’s going to be for myself,but here’s hoping it looks ok when the doors are fitted.
It’ll be fine. As I say in this vid I’ve made doors every way imaginable and never had a failure. But for me in a production environment the router/loose tenon method wins. BTW there’s a more recent version of this video here - Two Easy Doors - czcams.com/video/jwGvYsvdCg4/video.html 👍👍
Ha, ha ....all the things that frustrated me when I made my daughters L shaped wardrobe bed for a very small box room, where mentioned in this video.
The doors and bed, all still are going strong some 10 years later, but the hinge holes have had a few matchsticks pushed in to get the flush hinge holes to bite again. MDF sizes and flush hinges just dont match as you stated!
I cut all my panels with a hand saw, as i didnt have the cash for routers or chop saw, but my eyes and skills were good, so the end result was, in my humble opinion good.
Just catching up with all your videos and loving the channel, so lapping up the tips. Thanks.
Thanks Jason! Really pleased to hear the videos help! 👍👍
I make doors this way sometimes, and I apply edge banding all the way around to cover the seems. I always use soft close hidden hinges. Also, during the glue up, I find it is easiest for me to use two straight edges at 90 degrees so that I can line up the panel and the styles and rails getting a perfect edge. I do use a very small amount of wood glue for a long term hold, and I use a two part c a glue for an instant hold, I do not use clamps at all, the hold is pretty solid after only 3 seconds or so, Again, that is another reason I use the two straight edges to line it up on placement, because you really only have a second to slide it around before it grabs on and won't let go. I enjoy your videos, and tips. Hello from Kentucky!
Thanks Brian! Older vid this one - there's a much more recent one - Two Easy Doors - czcams.com/video/jwGvYsvdCg4/video.html - where I also demo the edgebanding trick. 👍
Thank you for this demonstration.
I was always taught by my father a very wise man. “If you’re going to do a job do it right or don’t do it at all.” Those were his words. I’ve stuck by it all my 40 years of being a woodworker/carpenter/contractor and Life in General... Good Video, Greg
Thanks Greg, 👍👍
another problem with this method arises when theres a difference in moisture content in the components, the door will curl when it all reaches the same moisture content. So yes always use mrmdf don't be tempted by the cheaper stuff in the diy stores. I love your vdeos btw and I've been chippying for 35 years!!!
Old vid, but thanks! 👌👍
I seem to be watching all of your older content now Peter 📺
😂👍👍
You could use a two part glue that instantly bonds. You don't need nails or clamps.
Another great video. I had a go at making a shaker style bath panel using the backing board method and was really disappointed in the results for many of the reasons you describe: tricky glue-up, filling and issues with the screws for the ball catches pushing the 6mm strip away. Version 2 was routed took the same amount of time and the results were way better. I think also for kitchens and bathrooms get moisture-proof flexibility built in.
Keep the videos coming. K.
+Karl 👍
+Karl 👍
I'm sold. And now I have my super sketchy Aldi router table and 'off the bootsale' routers I shall book my slot at AnE before I make a start :)
+Godshole 😂👍
I made a bunch of Shaker fakers for my own kitchen cabinets knowing it was the cheap and dirty way of doing it, but I didn't realize it actually wasn't that much cheaper than real Shaker style doors (and it was considerably dirtier!)
Great explanation. What about shaker doors with angled rails ie like under stair cupboard doors
Thanks. Angled doors are the same - I cover the process in the ‘my last build’ videos, full playlist here: My last build & Install - bit.ly/MyLastBuild
Hi Peter. Another good video. Thank you. A suggestion for someone doing the door that way and worried and putting the hinges at the seam. I recently repaired a large door made that way also made of mdf for a friend. And I used a domino but cut the slot so I could glue in the domino sideways. I used wood glue but you could also use epoxy. I left the domino protruding just a bit and hand planed it flush. It turned out great. It was a large wardrobe door and I added an extra cup/euro hinge to the door as they were concerned about how heavy the door was. Hope this helps someone out there.
Ron
Ron H Thanks! I've done that trick with dowels in the past, well worth remembering 👍
I’ve used MDF 16mm panel and 3mm build up on edge.
Peter, as always above and beyond! Many thanks - you covered it, but with your previous style its structurally solid as an 'object' (esp when glued up) - even though its 'only' in MDF vs a layered fascia stack, which is only secured with the glue/pins... Just my thoughts - and thanks :)
Thomas Kitchin Thank you! P
As the last comment, you know if it is properly made or not, if you want a reputation for making crap stuff then fine, go ahead. In my opinion you are perfectly correct doing it properly - how can you tell someone it is shaker when it is just nailed together.
Thank you! 👍👍
Peter great explanation. Where did you get that saw guide system from?
Thanks! It’s a standard, off-the-shelf Festool tracksaw system, and the bench with the hinged rail is a regular Festool MFT/1080 👍👍
Thanks for the video - would a shaker wardrobe door 21mm thick (15mm + 6mm) @ 2400 x 550mm be too heavy using the backing board method? (15mm backing board 6mm mock strips 100mm ish around no mid strips or anything) If not too heavy how many Euro hinges would you recommend?
A door that size would weigh about 14Kg, and I’d want 4 or maybe 5 hinges on that - mostly to keep everything in line, rather than for the weight. That’s a big old door. 👍
I can't normally criticise your logic but all the complications and problems you encounter can be eliminated simply by using plentiful 18mm mdd with readily available 4mm plant-on strips and a bench sander or electric plane sorts out the edges. Having said that I still thoroughly enjoyed the video. Different strokes etc.
This is a pretty old video, and to be fair it was in response to a specific question about laying 6mm over 12mm, but I do take your point, as long as you’re happy with a 4mm panel rebate. There’s a more recent video covering this approach and the loose-tenon shaker-style door here btw - czcams.com/video/jwGvYsvdCg4/video.html - and I also edgeband the ‘faker-shaker’ to see if it makes a difference. 👍👍
I know like you said that it make a weakness when drilling the hole for the hinge. But did you had a problem with that in the past. Let say that everything is really well bond together
Hi Peter,
Thanks for the great video, just found your channel the other day and subscribed 😀
Would you recommend using a FESTOOL domino as an alternative to the loose tennons?
Thanks,
Louis
Godfrey's Joinery Hi and thanks! Domino's a great tool - I use mine a lot - and I have used dominos to join the rail and stiles together, but honestly I find it easier just to run the groove all the way up the stile and use a loose tenon. If you use a domino, then you have to stop the groove before the end of the stile, and because I use a large/deep grooving bit it takes quite a chunk of the available space. But yes, dominos a good option if you want to keep the top surface of the door unbroken. 👍
Peter Millard thanks for the reply, I'll give it a go this way as I always like trying new techniques and report back.
Cheers,
Louis
Nice video as always, can I ask what is the electric pin nailer your using in this?
Thanks! Old vid this one! That's a spotnails 21g veneer pinner; I've had it a long time and it hasn't worn well tbh - don't think they make them any more! 👍
Hi Peter. have you had any problems with painting your shaker style doors .. like material skrinking and showing bare MDF around the inner edge ?
Hi. No, never. Are you using MR MDF, or regular?
Peter.
Great video, very helpful. Hope you can assist me with an issue I may have. I see you use 18mm MDF for the cupboard frames and 22mm for the doors. I have done the same for my frames but ordered 24mm for the doors. Will this cause a problem with the BLUM 7LB3550 hinges or a problem with the doors clashing with adjacent doors when open?
Thanks for any help you can offer.
Hi Graeme.I’m pretty sure those hinges are OK with doors up to 26mm thick, though as you say, you might find you need to make the gap between them slightly wider just to make sure they don’t clip each other - though the difference between 22mm and 24mm will be very slight tbh - just something to be aware of. HTH P. 👍👍
Hi Peter do you worry about hinge screws hold in MDF. I've had them pull out if the door is over-extended when opened by the client. What screws do you use?
Hi. I use spax screws, almost exclusively. I also only use MR MDF - it's quite a different material from regular fluffy MDF. In concealed/cup hinges? No, never had a failure in ~17 years or so... 👍
I mark out the hinge then drill and glue dowels where the screws will be. It has never failed my farther in law is very heavy handed but this method has held out for 7 years now on his cabinet doors.
Hi Peter
I have a large wardrobe in my bedroom (just finished) and need four 2300x800 sliding doors for it. My wife hates the flimsy thin metal ones you can buy so I thought about making them. Could I use the slot & panel technique for this?? The main concern I have is warping, would doors this big warp and what sort of thickness material would you recommend?
Thanks for the great video's, really useful.
Simon
Hi. Wow, 2300 x 800 is a pretty hefty door! The advantage of a groove and panel is that it's be lighter of course, and presumably hanging from a track, with just a guide-rail or slot of some kind at the base?? Funnily enough I've just quoted to replace a set of sliding doors around that size, and they were just 18mm, so I think 22mm thick rails and stiles would be fine, possibly with deeper rails; check what thickness doors the track can handle - that may be a limiting factor.
With larger doors I tend to have a deeper (~150mm-ish) bottom rail, but you may need that at the top as well for visual 'balance'. Haven't made one that large myself, I think I'd be inclined to make one as a test first. Good luck! P
Do they make board already pre groved from supplier . It seems like a massive time saver and all need to do is grove up ends and fill,plug the tops and bottoms joint
Hi Peter, bit of a long shot asking this on an old video but have just signed up on Patreon!
If I was to make doors like this, what's the minimum groove depth that would work? Could the grooving be done with a 1/4in trim router (thin kerf, 2 passes)? I don't have a router at all yet and can't see in general that I would need more than a small one for anything other than this kind of job.
Thanks if you're able to answer!
Hiya. All of my early doors were done with a 1/4” router tbh, though I used a grooving bit in them and it was bench-mounted. Not sure I’d recommend hand-holding for this kind of thing, so it would depend on the thickness of the materials. Minimum depth would be around 12mm for the grooves, I think. 👍👍
Hi Peter, great video and definitely going to be the way forward for me making this type of door. I have recently had a problem on a wardrobe project where I did it the cheating way and the pin holes and joints between the stuck on pieces are cracking over the course of a few months after spraying. In short I have got to replace the doors and will be doing it your way, now I have done the previous doors in 18mm thick. For a door 2200x500 do you think 18mm doing it your way would have any problems or should I be doing it out of 22mm?
Hi Damien, and thanks! To be fair, you can make the 'planted on' technique work, but you need to have a lot of clamps (so no pinholes) and an edgebander, which rules out most folks! With a door that size I'd always go for 22mm (or 25mm if you can't get 22) I switched to using 22mm because I had issues with a door of that size bowing, whereas I've never had the problem with doors in 22mm. 👍
@@10MinuteWorkshopThat's great, thanks Peter
yes indeed
Hey Peter,
Great video as always. I’m getting ready to make shaker doors and was wondering, have you ever done 12mm panel and 22mm stails?
I have 22mm stails and don’t know which panel to choose.
What is your reveal at the front?
Aren’t they to flimsy (22/6)?
Thanks for your help, much appreciate.
Hi Peter. Old vid, but thanks! No, I don't think I've ever done a 22/12 door. No reason not to, just never found the need. On bigger doors I tend to go 22/9, but 22/6 is fine for most. I tend to keep to a 7mm rebate, 6mm panel, 9mm inner reveal, as it's easy to flip it around and add a moulding if the client decides to go with a 'Victorian' look instead. But whatever works for you - no hard and fast rules here. 👍👍
Peter Millard thanks so much for your help and advise, much appreciate. Keep a great videos coming, always enjoy watching them. 😉
I would like to try that style of door but I don't have a router table. Can this be done with a normal router if you setup a fence for the depth...? a video on this would be good for the likes of us with basic gear........... Great video.....!
Thanks! I really wouldn’t recommend using a large grooving bit like this in a hand-held router I’m afraid, unless you can fit a sub-base to it to help with the stability. 👍👍
Concealed hinges are my only option on mdf, flush hinges in the mdf edge are never going to hold.
Hi Peter, Seems I have come a bit late to the party, but have some alcove wardrobe doors to make, which are size 2400 x 500 what thickness material would you recommend? I was going to use just a piece of 22m with a round over on the edge rather than a mock panel, any thoughts of decorative finishings? Material thickness, number of euro hinges etc? It is just a diy home project for the son's bedroom. Thank you, any input would be appreciated.
Answered on your other question. 👍👍
Hi peter. Recently started getting into watching your channel and stumbled upon this video. Great video I might add. I am in the process of building a very large wardrobe. 3.3m wide by 2.2 high. With doors 2.2 high and approx 500mm wide. I was going to go off of this style you are showing with the backboard of 18mm and the edging 12mm using the euro concealed hinges. But that has now made me wonder if this is good enough after seeing this. Bearing in mind I already have the 18mm cut to the height and width of the required door sizes(x4) and a full 12mm sheet ready to be cut down(x1). Could you please advise me on your recommendation on what is best option for me given the situation I have just told you that I am in. Your opinion will be highly valued. And look forward to your response. Thank you 😊
Hi Brett. A door made up of 18/12 is going to be very solid, and you shouldn’t have any problems with it. You’ll need to use concealed hinges designed for thicker doors - something like the Blum 71T9550 - and you’ll probably need a few as a door that size will weigh ~24 Kg, around there anyway, so be sure to spread the weight over several hinges. And pay attention to the edges to get a good clean finish 👍👍
Apologies for the late notice of your reply peter. My phone didn't notify me of your response. But it didn't the others. Technology eh 🙈🙉 and I will look into the blum hinges you suggested. It is for my own wardrobe so want soft close too. Maybe I could send you some pics by email or instagram whichever you prefer ? I was thinking due to the shear size of these doors of doing maybe 4 hinges per door ? Is there any chance you could send me a link to then blum hinges you recommend? As screwfix sell some but they do not include the model numbers. And I cannot find the model number on the blum website? Also, thank you so much for your response.
Hi peter, I noticed your headless pinner appears to be an electric one. What brand is it and where could I obtain one. My air model is fine in the workshop but it's a real beggar when you have to lug a compressor to do work in somebody's house.
+Clive Bashford I use a Spotnails SE30-08 21g veneer pinner; I bought mine direct from Spotnails.co.uk, but they don't seem to list it on their website any more. A quick Google threw up this one from a flooring supplier - www.carpetandflooringtools.co.uk/acatalog/Spotnail-Maestri-ME30-08-Pinner--Brad-Gun-343.html
Maestri also make a 21g electric pinner, though I haven't used it; my 18g Maestri is bulletproof though... 👍
if i jis want to use a plain piece of mdf and make a panel doo of it without having to join d 4 outer pieces ,wat is d name of d router bit i use
I was thinking of using this method to make some shaker style sliding doors 900 x 2200. Obviously hinges will not be involved. Would this be suitable or would you still recommend that I find a router table to use?
There’s a much more recent version of this video here - czcams.com/video/jwGvYsvdCg4/video.html - where I go into the two methods and compare the finished result. Bottom line is if you can edgeband the finished door and use concealed hinges, then the plant-on method will still work, just bear in mind that at that 900x2200 is a big old door, and you may have some issues with bowing. 👍👍
@@10MinuteWorkshop Hi, thank you for taking the time to respond. I think that I'll go for the stile and rail method as it will save weight and be a bit cheaper (I think) It's my daughter's bedroom and she is project managing but I'm doing all the work and paying for everything.
I like your work pants, mine are similar. What brand? Are there knee pads?
In the video description, as always! TuffStuff Extreme 700 trousers - amzn.to/2oqeBpq
Hi Peter , I once made some doors approximately 2 mtrs High by 500 mm wide. Using the backing board method you don't do anymore. These developed a slight curve later on. Any ideas to combat this? Thanks. Great work pal.
Possible make two doors for the opening. 1/4' or 1/8 gap between them, join them together on the back side so they open as one . I saw this done before.
Concealed cabinet hinges all the way. 😁
His Peter, I'm a relatively new subscriber to your channel and also to Gosforth handyman, and your combined podcast (trying to binge listen on the daily commute!) And I'm interested to know why some of the MDF you use is brown faced and some green faced? What's the difference if you don't mind explaining please? Thanks Colin,
Hi Colin & welcome. It’s all MR MDF, the thinner sheets (
@@10MinuteWorkshop thanks Peter, keep up the addictive work/videos!
Do you ever have any issues with the doors bending or bowing when you make them out of 18mm mdf with the loose tenons?
I did sometimes on taller doors, back in the early days, so I switched to only using 22mm and haven’t had a problems since 👍👍
Reason for asking is I'm having major issues with MDF door bending when making them the way you said not to by mounting 6mm onto 12mdf.
I was thinking about doing the rebate and mounting the board inside as you describe at the end but I've only 18mm to play with due to the recess the door goes into.
How big are the doors? Only ever had the odd issue on e.g. wardrobe doors ~1900mm tall. Are you using MR MDF?
I'm not using MR MDF, standard 18mm MDF.
The doors are 600mm wide and 1200mm tall.
I wouldn’t expect to be having issue at that size, even with 18mm; try using MR MDF if you can , it’s a much better board for not much more money 👍