Fences and Stops - My ultimate solutions (after trying many designs)
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
- I have had a number of questions about my various fences and stops that I use on both my tracksaw cutting station and my Kapex mitre station. In this video I described some fence options and then show the ones that I use every day. These are my ultimate fence solutions having tried many other designs in the past.
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A Man who is incredibility Talents; and willing to share it to Others; with a very kind Narrative; is none, but our Peter Parfitt! The "Cut-Above" for sure.Thank you kind Sir. It's always a joy; to see new things thar you teach. Cheerio! None Finer, and remember, we❤you.
Hi Pat, You are a true and faithful friend. Thank you so much. Peter
Peter -- I, too, prefer having the fence to the right of the track. However, as others have pointed out, it's not the way Festool designed the track to be used. Because the splinter guard protects the wood to the left of the right edge of the track, and not the wood to the right of the track, the portion to the right is supposed to be the offcut.
Nor is having the fence to the right of the track necessary to prevent the 'two-step' process of squaring up the edge of the board and then flipping it end for end to have the 'good edge' against the stop. Simply have the piece you're cutting to the right of the track, slide the left end/edge of the wood under the track a few millimeters, trim the end/edge, and then move the squared up edge against the stop to cut the piece to length/width. The problem with this approach is the sliver of wood cut off to square up the piece will be trapped under the track. And, this squaring cut will not be protected by the splinter guard.
So, why do I prefer to have the fence on the right? I like to be able to see what I'm cutting. That's particularly true if the 'keeper piece' will be completely covered by the track. In such a case, I cannot visually verify that the work is tight against the fence/dogs. Sure, it works, but it just feels uncomfortable.
First of all let me say, I absolutely enjoy listening to you explain things. I have watched dozens of your videos now and can say you are an excellent presenter. Wish there were more like you on CZcams. Very articulate, informative and straight to the point. No loud annoying music, trying to be funny while failing or a bunch of fluff. And your British accent doesn't hurt either. 😄I think you pretty much have me sold on the parf system now. Also, I was wondering the whole time why you had the fence on the right side and then you explained it. Make a perfect sense now. Thank you!
Thank you so much - it is much appreciated. Cheers. Peter
Very well explained Peter. Thank you. I guess the only possible advantage to having the fence on the other side of the track and therefore rotating the work piece is that both finish cuts are completed under the splinter guard. As always with your videos I enjoy the resulting thought process. Cheers. Take care. Dave
Hi Dave, That is true but the tear out with a well maintained blade (sharp and clean) is not really an issue. Cheers. Peter
Hi Peter, thanks so much for sharing this video. I was one of the people who asked you a question about fences recently. You said you'd be getting it done "very soon" and this was definitely very soon! Really appreciate it.
Hi Brian, I am sorry that I did not credit you but I get so many comments, and I try to respond to them all, that I lost track of your original message. Thank you for getting me to do this. Cheers. Peter
@@NewBritWorkshop No credit needed. Thanks again for the video.
I am in the process of building my own MFT, and I think that you had pointed a serious flow in the "standard" MFT crosscutting configuration in a combination with a fence: The fens scale running to the left of the table, with a small area to the right of the fence for the waste side. In this configuration, if you want to crosscut a 250cm X 60 cm board to lets say 80cm L X 60cm W sections, you have to first trim the edge with the board feeding from the left side of the table, than flip the board end to end, and feed it from the right side with the fence stop set to 80cm. This means that you need another support table on the right side, no matter how long your table is. It makes much more sense to setup the track in the middle of the table, or biased to the left leaving a grater length for the waste/feeding side to the right.
thanks for this. Peter
Thank you Peter, very helpful and clearly articulated
Glad it was helpful!
Hello, Peter, I like your track saw Ax fence design. I use the Festool wings & guides all the time- they are absolutely remarkable: life before them is mind boggling in retrospect, as they do exactly what you explained at the Kapex.
Another wonderfully helpful explanation Peter.
Thank you so much. Cheers. Peter
Love the set up! Once again you thought everything out for us! Thanks Peter
Hi Gary, I have had so many questions about fences and stops on fences that this video was long overdue. Cheers. Peter
Hi Peter, a good set up you have got there, and I like it as it all falls in to place for that perfect fit. As always well explained and good video. Take care
Hi Shaun, Thank you so much. Cheers. Peter
Good evening thank you for a very interesting video. I liked your set up and also the excellent explanation.
Glad you enjoyed it. Cheers. Peter
I was just thinking the other day that a right side fence would be more useful for an upcoming project that will require multiple 2 and 3 inch strips off a piece of plywood. Now I have a better idea how to make it happen. Thanks.
Hi Peter, I have my fence on the other side and I have it there for two reasons. 1 - When setting the fence with my story stick I can push the story stick up to the rail, I don't need to leave a 2.2mm gap to allow for the kerf of the blade. 2 - By doing it as you do, you're using the waste side as your good side. That's probably not a big issue with the quality of blades and cuts but the splinter guard on the rail is preventing and tear out , so the further your cut is from it the more likely you'll get tear out. If you think about the Festool Parallel guides they're all designed to work so that the waste side is the waste side. Also the same is true for all the rail squares with fences
Hi Stuart, Noted, many thanks. Peter
Yet another great video. Like the fence on the outfeed side, makes for parallel cuts. If the table is not 100% or made with parf guide system.
Yes great UJK, for me the best dogs/system on the market.
Hi Barry, Brilliant - many thanks. Peter
Simplistic genius.... Peter Perfect... Thanks matey
Hi Paul, Thank you so much. Cheers. Peter
This is just Fabulous Peter. I think the Kreg ACS and saw set up with the track saw being a left side waste cut Vs festool right side waste cut makes sense and would compliment your system/design. Unfortunately not sold in the UK.
Thank you so much. Peter
Thanks Peter, got a few bits and bobs from Axminster/ink over years here in NZ.
However the way you have done it doesn’t let you use the anti chip guide on the track and for me cutting melamine all time it’s not practical.
However will look at options
Thanks for the video
Thanks Peter, very well explained 👍🏼
Useful overview. Two issues with the right hand fence. Having calibrated using aTS55, you will get a slight error if you switch to a TSC55 because of the thinner blade. More significantly the splinter strip will not be protecting the finished piece because it is on the “waste” side. That noted, Peter’s proposal is an easier way of dealing with narrow cuts and less cumbersome than using parallel guides like TSO’s worthy narrow stock option.
So sad I bought the UJK Parf System Fence & Stop Kit and not this, so much easier. The fence and stop kit has some cool uses but man, this is 100% more versatile.
Great setup - however I like a pair of the flat parf system fences as they support the stock under the track and have more versatility as you have demonstrated in other videos when used perpendicularly with routers or domino. I actually have three as sometimes I will use the third for a first cut and then the other two at another level to do the second cut with the piece flipped so splinter guard does its job esp if I have a stop set for multiple repeat cuts on the pair
Yes, I used them for a long time for that exact reason. However, with the Fence and Length Stop there is (not shown in the video) another one of those circular pucks under the track against which the wood will be pushed. Cheers. Peter
Putting the fence on the right, you have to remember to allow for the blade thickness when calibrating the fence & stopblock, once done it does seem to make more sense
Absolutely. Cheers. Peter
Hi Peter, I have a question about the fence & length stop. In this video you demonstrate simply pulling it up off the table and relocating it. In another video you made a couple of years ago you show tightening the bench dogs down from underneath the table top to insure a tight fit. Has the fence been redesigned? Is it still necessary to tighten it down?
Well Spotted - I no longer bother to tighten them down as it only make a very tiny difference to the accuracy which is well within the expectations of good quality cabinet work. Cheers. Peter
Fence is on the left as guide rail splinter guard is on top of work piece needed. If you have it on the right it will splinter. Maybe a rail on both sides is what is needed 😂👍🏼
If you keep your blades sharp there is no problem at all - try it. Peter
Very helpful, Thank You 🙏
I think Festool generally call the piece that is not under the track the off-cut because it is more prone to tear-out without the splinter strip supporting the top of it!
That said, I've come to a similar conclusion as you have that the right hand side of the cut is more pleasant to use, especially for thinner rips. I use various sizes of combo squares to set the strip a consistent distance (+2mm) away from the edge at the front and back of the workpiece. This ensures parallel cuts which are the hardest to nail with an MFT-like setup.
Happy New Year Peter. As always a very well, clear and concise presentation. One query though, with your fence to the right, does your saw not hit the fence before you can complete your cut? Len (Devon 🇬🇧)
I absolutely love your content! I have made many purchases based soupy on your recommendations and almost entirely with Axminister Tools. They are excellent to deal with and have fantastic customer service. I am not sure how they do this, but they are the fast company to ship to here in Newfoundland Canada, even when compared to Canadian companies. Problem/question: I have the orange track clips from Axminister but the metal ring keeps coming out of the plastic holder. It would be awesome to have a more robust solution. Perhaps they have another device for this or you have some suggestions? You can get away with using nothing but ensuring they are snug, but I prefer a more positive solution. I also purchased the dogs with the track t-nut in the top that goes under the track, but they make it quite awkward to place and remove the track. Any advice? Much appreciated.
Hi Dan, I have not had any issues with my rail clips but from what you describe you can either contact the fantastic Axminster Customer Services or put something in the hole to make it a snug fit. I am not sure about the second part of your message about the track. Peter
Excellent
Thank you! Cheers!
Hi Peter, another great video, succinctly explained, how do I obtain a cutting/layout drawing for your new Cutting Station? Thank you
Steve
Hi Steve, Thank you for the kind comments. In order to get plans I need your email address. To find my email address go to my main CZcams page, click the "About" tab and that leads to my email address. I am told this has to be done on a PC. Cheers. Peter
A very clear video, thanks.
The only query that I have is how do you allow for the thickness of the saw blade when using your right hand fence? You appear to have used your 'story stick' up against the splinter guard, which would I assume leave your cut short by the thickness of the saw kerf?
Or did I miss something.
Hi Stephen, No the story stick was on the outer (away from the guide rail splinter guard) edge of the kerf line. The alternate way, and more accurate, is to position the tracksaw on the rail, drop the blade and push the story stick against the teeth. Cheers. Peter
Many thanks for clarifying. Appreciated.
Or just calculate 2.2 mm into the equation. There are wasteside jigs available also that represent the blade offset.
@@coreywells9498I think the newer Festool saws all now come with 1.8mm kerf blades (and there are shims for those as well). Though it seems like using the kerf in the table top would be the most accurate since that's what the saw is actually doing.
Wow! Great videos!! I’m new to the channel, so please forgive my questions if they’ve been answered elsewhere. If money were no object, what material would you make the top out of? I’m considering making mine from “Delrin” or perhaps euro ply with HPL in both sides. I’m also considering making it closer to 40mm thick. Would you or any viewers care to offer some advice or opinions?
Thanks for the great content. Looking forward to making my own.
Hi Jason, Do not waste your money on tops thicker than 22 mm. Also, use good quality MDF (Medite Moisture Resistant 18 mm is excellent) and then replacement tops are more likely to be within budget. Plywood is not the best material for tracksaw cutiing stations. Peter
Thank you for the reply! I should have offered a bit more info. The main use will be as a fixture table for assembly of large casework. (Similar to a welding fixture table) It will get covered in all sorts of adhesives and gunk. I’ve got a panel saw and CNC for the majority of the sawing. I’ll only replace the top every 5-6 years. I’m looking to make it thicker to minimize deflection with fully assembled casework especially while clamping. I just ordered a few of your stops and gigs to get me started. I can’t wait to tap into the potential of a proper table. Again, thank you for the input and time you give to the community. 👍🏽
Hi Jason, The maximum depth that the 3 mm and 20 mm drills can manage is about 25 mm. In order to go the 15 mm further you have to take the 3 mm hole all the way through the material as the 20 mm cutter has to have that 3 mm hole for the spike to follow. The 20 mm holes in that go down 25 mm will be super accurate to allow for your sawing and so on. The rest of each hole (beyond 25 mm in depth) can be (say) 25 mm in diameter without affecting the accuracy of what goes on above. So....
Create your 3 mm hole pattern in the normal way to the maximum depth that the drill can manage. Then, really carefully, extend several reference holes all the way through the top. Then flip the top and (again carefully) use the normal method to create the 3 mm hole pattern on the underside. This time try and set the 3 mm drill so that it will not go deeper than 16 mm so that it just connects to where the top set should be. Then, flip the top back to the right way up and do the 20 mm holes to their max depth in the normal way. Flip the top back again and drill out (no more than 16 mm) the underside with a 25 mm cutter. Fingers crossed !!
Hi Peter, another great tutorial as usual, I watched your video on the low profile UJK Parf system and stop , I would appreciate your thoughts on what do you think are the advantages of this new fence system over the low profile one ?
Regards
Dave.
Hi Dave, It really is about personal preferences. For me I have firmly settled on the advantages of the Parf Guide Systems and, in particular, the accuracy of the holes that it creates. So, I can move the Fence and Length Stop (with its two dogs that hold it in place) to any position that suits me on my tracksaw cutting station. If I move it away because I need the whole surface for something then when I put it back it needs no adjustment and gives perfect measurements for cutting time after time. The same is true with the second one that I keep at the Kapex. Cheers. Peter
Thanks Peter, Good point. Well made.@@NewBritWorkshop
Hi Peter, just a thought do you mention in the video allowance for the kerf of the blade when making your say 300mm cut?
Steve
Hi Steve, Yes, it is measured from the off cut side of the kerf. A more accurate way is to place the saw on the track and measure to the tooth of the blade. Cheers. Peter
@@NewBritWorkshop 👍🏻
As to why people often use the fence on the other side, could it be that the “keeper piece” of the material will have a nicer edge because it’s protected from tear out by the lip of the track?
That may be the case but with a well maintained saw and a sharp blade that tear out will be minimal. Cheers. Peter
Peter, you may have covered this in other videos but if one had an existing MFT/3 top ( Festool does not guarantee the hole pattern to be square), the fence and guide rail might not be square. Does this imply that the only way to use this system is to make a DIY top with the Parf guide sticks? Also, does this system allow for rip cuts along the length of the saw cutting station (I don't have a table saw)?
In my experience the majority of MFT3 hole patterns are square enough for most woodworking tasks. My MFT3 and also the MW1000 had pretty good hole patterns that most woodworkers would be happy with but neither are as accurate as my own tracksaw cutting station. The holes are a different matter and I have read, some time ago, on the Festool Owners Group (FOG), that the hole size can vary. But again, for most woodworkers it is acceptable. Yes, you can turn things around by 90 degrees to use on the MFT3. Cheers. Peter
Hi, Peter, I have the earlier, low profile version of your fence and just bought the new, higher version as well. I was hoping to use them on both sides of the track, but there’s about 12mm difference in their alignment. Do you have a fix to align them?
Thanks for all the great videos, it’s really appreciated.
That is a tricky one - I will take a look at it this evening. Peter
Yes, 12 mm is the difference. You could have a 12 mm distance strip (simplest) or find a way to create a separate row of 20 mm holes. Peter
Thank you
Peter, with the fence on the right side of your track saw did you have to find a new ruler/scale strip that counts from left to right? From the product photos, the included scale seems to count from right to left.
Yes, there is only one tape scale in the kit which I believe is the left handed one. For my setup you need the 105389 tape. Peter
Hey, It is probably a stupid questions from someone who is far less expirienced than you, but does depth gauge on the tracksaw is enounough to keep that table unharmed whille cuting? Or am i missing something underneath?
It is possible, with luck, to cut through a work piece with barely a scratch on the tracksaw cutting station but in reality a shallow kerf line will be scored on the tracksaw cutting station top. This is not an issue for most people but some want to avoid this. One method it to have a sheet of a sacrificial material under the cut line - for me that is a waste of time and effort. Cheers. Peter
Nooice!
I think the other reason why people have the fence on the other side is because the way you have it their is more likely to have chip out, as the curf cut is exposed not protected by the track. so more likely to create chips. how do you find it? (Hope that makes sence)
As I have said below, I have no issues with chip-out but it does pay to keep your saw blades sharp and clean. Peter
Hullo Peter,
May I ask how level are your kapex tables. I heard that they have a problem with the middle revolving table being lower than the two outside ones.
Mine is perfect and I have not heard of any issues before. Peter
Peter, did you account for the kerf with the 300mm stick and set it up with the stop?
Yes, see the (several) comments below. Peter
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Many thanks. Peter
Very well explained Peter. Thank you. I guess the only possible advantage to having the fence on the other side of the track and therefore rotating the work piece is that both finish cuts are completed under the splinter guard. As always with your videos I enjoy the resulting thought process. Cheers. Take care. Dave