How Much Power Do You Really Need? | Mid-Assist Vs Full Power eBike!
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- čas přidán 9. 12. 2023
- E-bikes are great! They act as your own personal uplift, turn gruelling climbs into fun technical ascents, and in general, you will have more fun on your rides. But how much power do you really need? We've got two brand new Whyte Bikes EMTBs to find out, the E-Lyte, a 50nm lightweight trail bike, and the E-160 with its 85nm of power and heavyweight Enduro capable build kit.
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im a total novice with my e-bike scott 950 aspect bosch motor had it a week now reason for getting it was a suggestion from my physio- had a stroke in 2022 and was house bound and missed going out missed my freedom this bike has turned a bad situation into a brilliant way for me to go out and ride i live in cannock chase a massive forrest with loads of deer and love seeing them and now i can its sunday today rode for 6hrs got home not even out of breath love it
Funny thing, I bought an ebike recently, I went for a full power one (Kenevo) but spend 90% of the time in eco mode! Lol. I still prefer having the full 90nm there as a "just in case" though and I find the heavier bike feels nice and stable which I also like.
Very true about the superb grip factor with full fat eebs, you just feel confident on sketchy grounds, going up & going down 💪🏾
I work in the bike industry, and I've been lucky enough to get to ride just about everything out there. My personal bike is the Pole Voima 190mm travel with an 85nm Bosch motor. I ride everywhere in the USA, but I live in Colorado. We have flow trails, techy rocky trails, and everything in between. I can use the power how and when I want. The SLs and Mids just don't have the grip and grunt, that is required, when the terrain gets serious. I am fortunate to be able to ride almost 5000 miles (500,000 feet of climbing) every year, and I can't imagine being able to do that on anything other than a full-fatty. On a side note, my wife (5'3") loves her full-fatty Trek Rail as well. Cheers.
Great info ... but you all clearly demonstrated that no matter what kind of bike you're riding, rider skill ultimately determines what kind of terrain you can tackle. I love the cinematography in your newer videos!
World class video !!! The production values are simply the best !!!
Agreed, movie level.
Sunday morning perfection , home cooked breakfast , double expresso and more excellent EMTB content featuring another Steve Jones hike a bike adventure 😂 . 3 rides in from changing from a mid range trek exe to a full fat turbo levo here 👍
First I want to say that I watch a minimal 98% of these vids in my living room on my 80” 4k TV and that the quality of the video, editing and even presentation are next level.
I ALWAYS enjoy Steve’s perspective, although I might not always agree.
The quality, the content….such a waste for just 18 min…I mean not really a waste (poor choice of word) but this video is no different than the rest of the videos this channel puts out….everything is in place for MUCH longer vids. They are just so next level. I’m always sad the time ends so quick with the content and delivery SO good. I am always amazed by the full quality. These are all prime time, high end production shows ( at least that’s how they look and hit).
So GREAT JOB everyone!!!
I would like to see the orange spoked wheels, the orange Fork on the bike Steve was riding in the video…such good colors. And speaking of colors, everyone’s helmets looked fantastic! I really like the satin or flat finish and the colors!
The opening when Chris rode to the peak….that was badass. Amy and Chris kept blowing me away with their riding abilities.
Anyway to get a long show??! Maybe a Christmas or New Years Special?! 🤞
Merry Christmas 🎄🇺🇸
What a nice comment! I hope you're having a great day 😊
Excellent video! I love going on 40-50mile all day rides on my full power, full fat, big battery Giant Reign E+0, no half measures.
Absolutely! My Spectral ON is my playbike! Full power all the way. I get a work out on it, but I ride my amish road and gravel bikes most of the time. 50NM and little battery is limiting.
I got to demo the new Levo SL and was impressed at what it was capable of riding up. Pointed it at a hill thats on the limit of what I thought a full power could do where you are on the verge of breaking traction but it cleaned it. The battery life definitely felt more limited though. I think for generally flatter terrain (such as undulating trails without significant elevation change like a mountain) then lighter lower powered bikes excel. Once there are much larger hills with long climbs the benefits of a larger battery start to outweigh any weight advantage. Personally I'd rather they just made batteries modular do you could pop in 100wh segments at a time into your full power bike to suit the ride length.
Test rode a levo SL loved it had the range extender on it, But it didnt feel any lighter than my 2018 focus jam thats 378wh and has 70nm
Great to see a variety of riders on this episode. Please more of this
I can't imagine a bike with less than 85NM now. It allows you to get up stuff you never thought was possible. Although, technique plays a huge part. I like the techy trials stuff.
Coming from normal MTB 60nm does the same for me though - its all relative, sure 85nm is more but whether its 50 or 60 its a completely different ball game from non-e bikes.
Interesting, I may get an e-bike and tempted by an sl. I should perhaps rent a full fat and sl before I buy one.
@neverasks 100% try both... Not on flat ground though, as you'll not feel the real benefit to what a full fat offers. I've had people in our group with SL's wishing they had a full fat. They get left behind.
@neverasks Si vous n'avez jamais essayé un emtb alors je vous assure que vous allez aimer. j'ai un Rail 9.8 depuis 2021 et je l'apprécie à mesure que mon habileté s'accroit. J'adore le Vélo !
I'm gonna buy one it's got last 5 hours go anywhere help my riding ime rubbish I'm thinking full power
Steve loves his kick turns doesn’t he, great video everyone involved.
That was epic! Really enjoyed that! I love my trance e+0 advanced! Just a joy to ride and can handle everything I chuck at it with ease!!
Good info that answers all the questions I had about mid vs full power. My first first e-mtb would be mid-assist.
Great film Steve. Loving the adventure content. Inspired to visit Stwlan dam area on my 2020 turbo levo comp 👍
Freaking awesome visuals!!!!
Great video...will love to see this done again but on the kind of trails most people ride on...
From time-to-time I consider a light e-bike, but then I realise I mostly use my e-bike to self-shuttle in bike parks. Half-way into the day I use more and more "boost" on the steeper stuff and often times I empty my 630Wh battery completely. I have an extra in the car, but usually I don't over-last a (new) 630Wh. My 2 year old 630Wh drains much faster (has about 2000km on it).
I regularly ride my "normal" bike though. If I didn't, I would probably get a light e-bike. But having normal bikes as well, if I want a nimble, fast, light bike, I just take my motor-less bike out.
On steep climbs I often times find, that the best technique is a slammed seat, boost mode and sitting down. Standing up on wet roots/rocks is a fast-track to losing traction :), unless in a lower assist. Really depends on the terrain. Costa Rica can get rally slippery during the 5 months of rainy season. Not unlike UK weather.
EMBN: Good editing, interesting, picturesque, funny.
GMBN: another nonsense video about hardtails
key point: "Everyone is different"
On top of that your trails may be radically different from mine.
Up side now is I think it would be hard to make a truly regrettable choice in the mainstream eMTB with the current battery/motor combos.
White chocolate macadamia nut! One of the best but not when it is hot! (I found out the melty way)
Oi, that’s my backyard you’re playing in 😂……shared with many others. The eMTB has been a brilliant boost for my riding as the aging process steals the power from my legs. I’ve gone back to the joy of trials riding without an engine. I prefer my full-fat Levo over the SL for adventurous & tech riding, like the lost path you walked. Uphill is the new downhill 🎉🎉🎉
Once I was slim and fit as. Didn’t need any power assist. Now, full fat is a great choice haha. Happy though, as my white e160 full fat is cheaper than the new lightweight less power Whyte. Less is more? Well, not in this case.
EMBN seems to have better music choices that work and fit better for the videos than GMBN, GMBN Tech or GCN......
The new whyte lyte design looks amazing!
Those rocks look sharp!
Great looking country to ride, very similar to our South Island high country in NZ, love my E160mx, 64 yrs young so need that extra power
Quel bel endroit pour une randonnée, merci au photographe et à la production pour la réalisation d'une vidéo qui nous montre les artéfacts d'une vie antérieure. J'ai été totalement confondu par la beauté des images, panoramas et le reste...
J'aimerais bien savoir où c'est sur la planète ?
Merci à l'Équipe et au commentateur expert Steve pour son excellent reportage 👍
SL's are ace but it's nice to have both to pick & choose your day I feel ?
I mostly ride in emtb on my full power e-bike. I have it on 6 assist and dial Ed it down to 70nm
Some is good, more is better and too much is just enough.
Can always dial it back with a full power to increase range when it suits.
I think your question is a little pointless. It's not what you need, it's what you want surely? For me more is always better as you can always turn it down. Who wouldn't want the option to turn it up occasionally? The only real question is "Does the trade off (essentially just more weight) really compromise much?" For me it doesn't.
I agree - if you like to go on long and varied rides, then having the [typically] additional range and option of some 'extra' boost outweighs a modest weight penalty - while the lighter weight of a mid-power bike is something which I suspect most eMTB riders are not fully exploiting anyway?
I was in school with Amy. Mad seeing her on here
What is the name of the reservoir and are you all using tubeless and why? I've had a short break and just purchased a new bike cant decide if tubeless was still the way forward.
More power is always better. Always. Always. Always.
Beautiful scenery, and beautifully narrated.
But I believe you’ve forgotten the merits of walk mode.
No need to carry the bike over head in most situations with walk mode
I love a full power. But they are heavy! Stay in 8th gear and the cadence is good for no motor, heavy bike peddling
I have question, where has Adam been with you doing these great rides?
NM is a measure of torque, not power. The motors in both of these bikes have the same power (600w peak). The greater torque means you get more assistance at a lower cadence. On the E-Lyte you have to spin your legs slightly faster (e.g. choose a lower gear) to get the same level of assistance. But the power is the same.
I've been to most of the eBike shops in Arizona. Most are owned by a few owners who seem hell-bent on profit over selling good quality bikes.
Beautiful views, but so much "water", hard to retrieve the information. Very few specifics, hate it. Simple question, does 55Nm make climbing or allow it as easy (or almost) as 85Nm?
So for an example if a fitter than average rider is on both does power take over? There will obviously be some point it does ie gradient/terrain. Another thing (after talking to quite a few good full power riders) is that on steep off piste the grip is fantastic, but when they go, ie lose traction it’s in a blink of an eye and you are on the deck before you know it, all that weight has to go somewhere. Spoken as someone who’s mulling over what type to get 🤔🤔🤔
I pick up my E160 RSX next week, my first ebike. I think ultimately I’d prefer a lightweight with a range extender but bikes on the market now are either not suitable for the riding I do or they are out of my price range (like the whytes). I prob would have bought the base model heckler sl if it had range extending capabilities, it probably will soon but I couldn’t wait any longer as my knees are super painful after riding these days. I think in a few years, when it’s new bike time again, I’ll prob get a lightweight.
So, add the weight of the range extender and now what does it weigh. You can’t suddenly decide you need the extender and it magics itself onto your bike when you need it. So, do you leave it off and risk it, or always carry it ? That was my dilemma.
@@douglasalexander4348 horses for courses. I know what I’m going to do in advance. I’m either midweek quick blast, or full day Sunday (or Sunday quick blast if the weather is bogging or I’m not feeling up to it). I’m often not that far from the car where I ride so I suppose I’d always keep the range extender handy just in case my plans changed. I hope we eventually get more versatile bikes. Motors with 2 settings for example where you could use either a 350wh with low Nm setting or slap a big 900wh in and motor to 90Nm.
@@The9009username Yes, that’s a great idea, I really liked the Orbea rise and it’s flexibility, but being on the heavy side, a full fat worked out better. It pairs with my non e bike Trek ex 8, both ends of the spectrum. Not sure why e bikes don’t have a variable gear like my old 2 stroke scooter though.
Wow where is this filmed please
Haha i think most of us over a certain age can relate to trying to fix our bikes on the trail without reading glasses.
I wish they compared the difference in drag after reaching 25 km/h. If there is noticeably less drag in case of SX
I'd say the only difference is weight. Heavier the bike, harder it is to pedal 😬 iv found don't go past 8th gear. Best cadence when no motor
where i rode this weekend…100nm or a dirtbike
Rider skill is a big factor I will always prefer full fat bike bigger battery always a plus but if you do a lot of hike a bike then yeah light weight will make all the difference
Silent is the key.
What's the legal limit for a Ebike in the UK at the moment? and can they have throttles or just pedal assist only.
It's quite complicated, but you can't buy a new ebike with a twist and go throttle unless it has been type approved like some of the Wisper models. However that is using the 250W LPM certification and is for UK use only. It may also be restricted to 250W. Despite the EU certification stating 250W many are actually around 900W (23Ax36V) at full power hill climbing. They aren't actually 250W in real terms. I honestly don't understand why these e-mountain bikes are called 250W which only allows 7A at 36V. It's all a bit weird and makes no sense.
I'm in Canada and the limit is different in each province, where I am it is 500W max to still be a push bike, and throttles are allowed. @@bonzobanana1
Yesterday in a race i I actually used turbo in the mud, without it i wouldn't have got up the really muddy up hills, and thats 85nm.
SL 35 mm hasn't failed me yet
You must be fit mate, SL riders usually are
@@megane230f1 I need to be too keep up
Great video but whats the story in the ruins?
Old Welsh slate mines are a bit of a playground for Jones!
Epic
It's all personal preference, for me these off the shelf bikes don't do it for me, and I prefer something I have put together myself , where I can set it up how I want it
What area is this filmed in ?
Looks like Stwlan dam behind Blaenau Ffestiniog
Do electric motors have more torque? Kawasaki klx 250 cc 21Nm i think you don't need more than 30 Nm buth buth my heart says more power Mclaren 130 Nm from 250 watt motor aaaaaa
Why do those rocks look like that???
I love my full power.
130 Nm engine and 1000+Wh battery, will be decent😂 Bosch and german quality are a joke , the struts on the motor case broke like wood splinters.
If they know their freaking struts are so fragile, why they don't go titanium ??? bike: Cube 120 Hybrid
F uckin price of em..😂
Derestricted full fat 85nm for the win, braaaaaap
Love the channel most of the time, except when you do these comparisons, it almost seems like you are bias or trying to push one brand or bike. There is not one situation that a full fat bike would be in second place to one of the current lineup of super lite bikes. Don’t get me wrong. Super lights are done well good quality, A dedicated analog bike rider would think these are all anyone should need.. That’s not how we should look at it. It should be compared to total performance Especially when you consider bikes cost nearly as much in top spec as the full fat bikes, if you’re not a racer, 7 or 8 pounds is not enough to tip the scales in my opinion. Your hard work is certainly appreciated in your attempt of analysis and comparison 95% of the time you guys do a great job and I love the channel.
This is true - although as they do point out in the video, it does tend to depend on where you intend to ride... unless you live somewhere where 1000m (3000+ft) climbs are common, then the new range of 50Nm bikes are a realistic alternative now, as long as their overall range is comparable. Still nice to have the option to dial up your boost another 35Nm though when conditions dictate!
Honestly you lot are the most beige bunch when it comes to emtb , every single review or video gives zero conclusion because i guess its more important to keep everyone happy …… trouble with that is its just becomes incredibly boring a bit like watching the Antiques Roadshow……. Steve you’re ace on a bike please for god sake man say what you actually think once in a while rather than always sitting on the fence and giving both sides of the story…. Emtb in the uk already has a rep for a pass time for old people and this sort of thing just exaggerates that, Ebikes are cool and they need better and stronger marketing to appeal to young / cool people rather than just pensioners (sorry if thats sounds harsh)
I get what you're saying, but equally all the current crop of eMTBs are excellent - so you'd end up just nit-picking over the smallest details (which is only really subjective anyway) in an effort to proclaim a 'winner'... I think what EMBN do is show how much fun these bikes are, regardless of which brand or components you choose.
@@jmo2752 definitely understand what your saying but there is a massive difference in the motors thats always talked about in riddles , truth is the Shimano is weak compared to with the Bosch and Yam and anyone who’s ridden all three could not see it any other way yet there just sugar coat that for example by saying its more to do with line choice , tyres , terrain etc which to be fair is bollox if all scenarios were the same….. they just need to stop going for the old biddy approach and give it some beans as they are certainly more than capable of doing so
It all depends on how overweight and lazy you are 😂
Age and physical limitations are another factor don't forget. I'm 62 and I just don't have the strength that I used to have. Some sort of eMTB is looking more and more likely in my future. While this content doesn't particularly help with the decision on full vs. mid, it IS a question I have myself.
Luna Cycle and High Powered Cycles will spank every bike you guys have ever tested when it comes to power….and they both have throttles. So when a Sur Ron would get you busted because it’s not a bicycle, the Luna and HPC fill the gap. Cause come on --some of us need that power to hit them jumps
If you need a throttle, might just get a dirtbike. 46 HP KTM 300 is really fun!
Yeah but theyre like 15-20kg heavier, ive rode a frey beast and it was nearly 35kg, was fast but thats about it, it seriously wouldnt touch an SL bike on a run down a bike park
Can't imagine myself buying a all incompatible, unrapairable mess of a branded ebike, just like buying a crappy iPhone,
Steve you must have the best job in the world look at that view incredible
Whichever bike you choose you shouldn’t be riding all over the countryside. Show some responsibility guys