Why Turnabout Beginnings Used to be my Least Favorite AA Trilogy Case (And How I Feel About it Now)
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- čas přidán 24. 08. 2024
- Hello everyone! This is the fourth video of the Ace Attorney Trials and Tribulations reviews.Today we will be discussing Turnabout Beginnings. We will discuss why it used to be my least favorite case in the Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney Trilogy and how I feel about the case now. Then I will rate the case out of 10.
Footage credits:
Cyime
/ @cyime
Great analysis, as always!
I can definitely appreciate this case for what it is, but aside from Terry’s death at the very end, not many moments stick out to me. I think a lot of it comes down to how Dahlia is utilized. When Melissa Foster is revealed to be Dahlia, I just can’t really feel all that much impact from the scene, even though this is a huge shock for the characters in-universe, since the entirety of her role the trial I’m thinking, “alright, when’s the part where she drops that fake name of hers?”
My gut instinct would be to simply have Dahlia wear some sort of disguise in her Foster persona, like a large coat or some sort of hat to obscure most of her face- I think that’d make for a more memorable reveal for the player. In-universe, though, that wouldn’t really make any sense for her to need to do, so I understand why the developers simply used her appearance from Memories.
All in all, you summed up my thoughts pretty well, this is a fine case as is, but really is meant to bolster 3-5 as opposed to being able to stand on its own merits. Turnabout Memories walked to Bridge to the Turnabout could run, I suppose.
Whilst I like case 1 ad 4 of this game just fine, I share the sentiment that the investigation sections add a lot to the cases.
What I like most about this case is the setting, it manages to feel like it's an older case than it actually is, with the dreary noire aesthetic.
honestly, the most frustrating thing about this case to me is basically everyone sexually harassing mia for basically the entire case. diego, a coworker with seniority, is calling her kitten over and over; gumshoe stopping to lust over her is written as a joke, i think, but it's out of line in this setting; edgeworth calls her a bimbo and the judge does not take her seriously and gets on her case about being too aggressive. in some ways, i can understand the storytelling benefits of having this character who seemingly always has the answers throughout the trilogy forced to find her way out of a jam despite everyone posing some sort of challenge, but i wish they had found a better way of doing that than "mia gets almost every type of workplace harassment on essentially her first day on the job"
I mean, with Diego it's not really harassment because we learn from Grossberg in case 1 that he was her boyfriend. Also, apparently the Edgeworth line was a mistranslation (though honestly could still fit his character at this point as the piece of shit apprentice of von Karma, we definetely are not supposed to like this version of him as a contrast to how we see that he's changed by 3-5, though obviously they could have done it more tactfully). Gumshoe is just an idiot, and does at least get threatened by Edgeworth. There's no excuse I can give for the Judge, both Judges are wildly incompetent.
but this case happened before 3-1in the timeline. when this case starts, it's clear that mia doesn't know him personally yet, meaning they started dating between the two, before diego's poisoning. if that's the case, i still think it's pretty weird of him to be calling her kitten, even if they did eventually get together. also i don't think that the edgeworth line being mistranslated or gumshoe being an idiot makes up for the fact that they do say those things in the english version, and it doesn't make it not uncomfortable for me as a player.
I don't think Diego calling her kitten is sexually harassing her considering he's her boyfriend and that he calls people kitten randomly, like he calls Ron Delite kitten too.
Edgeworth is also supposed to be an unlikable piece of shit at this point, and Gumshoe is just dumb as always, I don't think him liking Mia (and getting actually called out for it) is sexual harassment. I think the Judge just letting Edgeworth's weird comments slide is very weird, specially considering that Judge is supposed to be the more competent one
@@PoisonAllison I was under the impression they did know each other based on how they interacted. If they weren't a thing yet, it seems like it was just flirting - obviously not okay to do to a stranger but I don't think they were, and also not okay to do to someone who is uncomfortable with it, but Mia doesn't react to it.
Again, not trying to say your feelings aren't valid about the gumshoe and edgeworth lines, though at least with Edgeworth it's by design to show how shitty of a person he is at this point in time. Mia should definitely have a stronger reaction at this point, but given it's her first case I can see why she wasn't (also probably the fault of it being a mistranslation, if it was intentional Mia may have called him out more). I also don't think it's out of character for Gumshoe, but obviously still way out of line (one of the few salary cuts that's justified I guess). I guess my point is that while this is shitty behaviour all round, it's not entirely out of character (and with Edgeworth's line there's a bit of humour in the shock value, at least it was that way for me when I was first playing.
On the one hand, I totally get how frustrating that is, I didn't like it either.
On the other hand, considering that dudes who play the game might get a taste of being a woman who isn't taken seriously and is sexualized *on the job* could be an eye opener. Mia is dressed professionally, she's helped Phoenix several times, and is a badass in her own right.
To step into her shoes and see that she started out having trouble with just about everyone really making it harder, you just get the most sympathy for her and women like her.
why did people stop watching you after that 3rd case syndrome video?? ur underrated dude
Thank you! I assume these are probably just not the type of videos that most people enjoy watching
I love this case. It feels scary, a lot of questionable characters, a really dark ending, a tense atmosphere bc you know neither mia or edgeworth had ever lost a case at this point
I personally like this case, I think is because I always associate as if it were the 1st part of the last case, but it was interesting to hear it's flaws that I honestly hadn't thought about
this one of my favorite cases
At least when I played, I felt bad not much for Terry death itself but more for the situation Mia was, in your first case seeing someone dying in front of you (maybe even considering yourself the cause of the death) must not be easy, and to make it even worse the one guilty of the crime walked freely. I was the entire case waiting to see what made Mia stay 1 year out of action but I was not expecting a suicide (all cases involve murder but watching someone loss a life right in fornt of my eyes still shocked me). In general this case is good, but for me the weakest of the Third game, as almost everyone said it is a way to improve Bridge to a Turnabout (and for me personally it also makes a replay of Turnabout Memories a lot better)
For me this case is better than recipe but only a little
Idk if I enjoy memories or this one better but I think this one is Tiny bit better
This case good solid this case is between 6/10 or 7/10
this case was the most boring case in T&T for me cause as you said nothing interesting really happens
Also it is the easiest for me which also brings it down cause there was no challenge
With Terry Im indifferent
Mia went up for me in this case
With Godot I have to agree he went down
Terry death was schocking and tragic sure, but not emotional for me to care
Dahlia well she was fine
Edgeworth went up the most for me
Seeing him Like this was refreshing honestly
So I agree with you but not with the difficulty
Good case but overrated honestly by fans
Ive never heard anyone say that Fawles' death is emotional, I always got so uncomfortable by his existance, so I guess I thought it was fair for him to die or something, i didnt get attached to him AT ALL.
I do like that their "relationship" was probably just Dahlia manipulating him and he clearly has some mental health issues but idk. I don't think it was necessary for him to be an adult dating a child for the manipulation story to happen
But I do like the case, I think it works for what it is, and it's clearly not meant to be a standalone case, and seeing Mia is always a treat
I thought people feeling emotional about Terry's death was really common. I've heard many say it's among the saddest moments in the entire franchise
@@DerpyHiro I'm guessing we're just in different sides of the fandom because I've barely seen people even discuss that case
When i was a teen first watching a playthrough i thought it was sad because I didn't realize Dahlia was 14 then, I used to think she was around Mia's age for some reason
I love it when CZcamsrs act like I can't see the title.
I remember half a decade ago everyone calling Terry the most tragic character in the trilogy, an innocent victim being taken advantaged off by a manipulative backstabbing snake. However, now a days public opinion has changed and view Dahlia as a girl who was abused and neglegted by her dad and put into situation where she was falling victim to a prediter that was trying to groom her and so she conspired with her steb-sister to get escape her abusive life that she was suffering under. In fact, a lot people I've spoken with really dispise this case, because your defending a pedofile again, however unlike with Turnabout Big Top, rasing the age of the girl who the defendent is in love with is imposible. 14 year olds and 19 year olds look completely different, which means that when Dahlia jumped off that bridge and dissapaired, any and all pictures that were taken of her before she, Terry and Valarie desided to rob Dahlia's dad became outdated as her phisical appearince changed with age.
I wanted to have your opinion on a youtuber who utterly hate apollo justice which is gamingmagic13 if possible.
I did watch some of his videos a while back. From what I remember, I felt like his logic critiques of AJ were a bit extreme, especially in comparison to some of the other games. Still I think his opinion on AJ is understandable given that he doesn't like the characterization of Phoenix and other characters like Ema
@@DerpyHiroYeah but call this the worst thing is a little exagerated, I wonder what you also think of his danganronpa hate.
@@maxicheese4609 Kind of the same thing. I respect his opinion but feel like the hate is a bit too extreme at points. But if that's how he feels, then so be it
I always felt like this case didn't feel like the rest of the game. It felt especially bleak and depressing since we already know that Mia loses. Also, I hate seeing this version of Edgeworth. I would have much rather had von Karma here. Seeing my boy like this was just infuriating.
I don't like it either, it's boring, slow, and what substance it there just isn't that good. Yes, us knowing who the killer is from the start but Mia doesn't is clever, but does not make an interesting case. Nearly all contradictions you point out are very mundane details are nothing interesting, I replayed this case last week and already forgot it. And the defendant is awful, easy top three worst. Even removed from his creepy infatuation with "his teen angel", he has no likable traits, no development, and if it weren't for the end of this case, nobody would remember this guy. Maybe if Mia had more of a relationship with him, it would have had more impact when he's gone, but to be honest, I really don't want to see more of this guy. I didn't like Canadian Judge insulting Mia and flirting with Dahlia, Edgeworth and Armando aren't particularly interesting aside from the surprise of seeing them that wears off after about ten minutes, and Dahlia has better appearances. Not terrible, but it's not one I am excited to come back to on T&T replays.
I feel this case sums up a lot of the issues with Trials and Tribulations's main story honestly. A LOT of mainline mystery games actually. Truth first narratives are kind of ridiculous. Dahlia is unquestionably a villain. This whole story sets her up as despicable, cunning, and ruthless. You know, the issue with the culprit in Turnabout Big Top, just if he was actually right. At the ripe age of 14 she's got some crazy master plans and schemes. The franchise offers no weight to the morality of these sorts of situations because the morality doesn't matter so long as the truth of the case comes to light. Truth-first is just plainly hard to work with, and that leads into possibly the dumbest trope in these sorts of stories, "the truth isn't always pretty." That theme almost NEVER sits right in these stories, and crosses as disgustingly selective. "Oh, it's tragic that so-and-so killed the actual biggest asshole in the case." Yeah, and it's tragic in some other cases that I'm supposed to be the good guy defending a pedophile, but I need to find the truth. It only KIND OF works in story contexts that are stupidly extreme and demand characters make difficult choices, so like Danganronpa or Master Detective Archives. In fact, I'm pretty sure MDA itself is supposed to be a deconstruction of Truth First stories, where we actually are very often forced to confront and face the idea of "judgement" the story presents.
What we're left with is that the only other way to make a truth first narrative work in terms of compelling answers is that one of the major characters has to be a mustache twirling cartoon villain. Or, y'know, we could actually address the morality sized question mark in the room. Or perhaps have us play someone more questionable, and while we're looking for the truth for narrative reasons, make us question the character's methods of pursuit or intentions.
I personally enjoyed the case but I agree it's overrated lmao. Memories was the better case where you played as Mia.