What Really Bad Therapy Looks Like: Wednesday - Therapist Reacts!
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 28. 11. 2022
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Why does therapy in media get a bad wrap? Because it's portrayed really poorly! Psychotherapist Georgia Dow uses Wednesday Addams in "Wednesday" to showcase how many ways a therapy scene could be performed incorrectly.
#wednesday #therapy
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Sheâs the kind of therapist parents hire to break their âtroubledâ kids. Theyâre not paid to actually help bridge gaps or heal trauma in the kids, theyâre paid to break their spirit and mold their behavior so the parents are happy. The fact these therapists not only exist but are making bank is terrifying.
I had behavioral issues as a kid (4-9) and I was sent to two therapists who were like that to "fix" me. It was already difficult for me to be vulnerable with people, but those experiences made it 100% more difficult and I'm still trying to figure out how to feel comfortable with my negative emotions because I was taught to see them as a problem :/
My mother didn't need to hire a therapist for that, she was ruthless enough to do it on her own. To 5 children.
Just realized that that's the reason I've hated every single one of my therapists
My Mom and the therapist she hired convinced me that my interpretation of situations and tones of voices was biased toward exaggerated hostility.
I spent weeks telling myself that my stepdad's 'You're like a toddler,' comments were 'just' my mind overreacting.
How convenient for my parents that my perception of everything was incorrect, amIright? đ
you certainly fell victim to one
I was âsmartâ enough as a child to lie to my therapist instead of tell the truth. I told them something in great confidence, but then my parents mentioned it elsewhere. They couldnât possibly have known so the therapist had broken my trust. I knew it worked since my parents tried to help me with things that didnât actually bother me, which was an annoyance in and of itself.
People think children are dumber than they actually are. If you allow them, they can manipulate you better than any adult can.
This. People often underestimate how smart children really are. Especially children who gain âself-awarenessâ for a lack of a better term of how their actions and words effect everyone around them. Betrayal for these types of kids is really hard to gain trust back. It really messes them up. As one of those kids, even if my life was relatively normal, I developed severe trust issues because of what happens over a decade ago.
Kids learn from experience since itâs literally how they first learn the world, thatâs why they can be as smart as this
I did this too but it was because I over heard from her telling my parents that it was basically a counselor policy, Iâll tell you anything I think is worrying was her words. Not to mention our family therapy sessions turned into my dad telling my mom and I that it was all our faults, heâs done nothing, heâs never at fault. It also turned into basically couples therapy + me.
When I was a child I was the master of manipulation đ
@@Irina-zj3sd And now?
Not directly related, but after watching the first minute: when I was little, my mother transferred me from public school to private, and I had no idea until she was dressing me in the uniform. I'd never again see the friends I'd just made, never got to explain or say goodbye. Having no warning or choice in the matter had a lasting impact that I didn't even recognise for years.
that is really hard I am sorry you didnt get a chance to say goodbye
@@GeorgiaDow Not sure if you do second parts to character therapy breakdowns but I think it would be interesting if you make a video going into Wednesdays interest in pain and as hinted in the beginning of the show self harm.
I had a similar experience when my grandfather passed when I was in 2nd grade. I didn't learn whose funeral we were going to until I was getting dressed for it
@@apokalupsis116 that literally sounds like a nightmare I'd have. Sorry that your parents didn't find a way to explain what was going on to you
I also had a similar experience but my family moved half way across the world đ .
Not to mention later on when the therapist sees Wednesday outside of therapy and is like "hello person who's in therapy with me! Let me discuss these other people I'm treating as well!" I was physically startled by how she acted.
That is another point which is so pertinent, confidentiality. Thank you for mentioning this
When she did that I literally yelled "HIPA" at the screen
I had a therapist like that who openly talked to me about my friends problems (she was also a patient) and the other way around. We openly talked to each other about our problems, the therapist, what he said, etc. so at the time i thought it was fine. She was going to know everything anyways, probably even earlier than him, but deep down it really affected me. I didn't tell him things i should've told him, not because i wasn't ready to tell him, but because i wasn't ready to tell her. He also told me something my mom shared with him while talking alone, it wasn't even something super important but after that i wasn't sure how much he told her about me.
Patient confidentiality is super, super important for trust. If you mention even the smallest things about other patients it can mess up the whole therapy and your relationship with your patient. And future therapy too, i don't know if I'll ever have the same amount of trust as i had with that therapist, before my friend became a patient, again. I definitely don't have it with my new therapist even though she's great.
@@jsas2047 at least where I live, that's HELLA illegal. I'm so sorry that happened to you. And you're right, confidentiality is so important. I hope you can someday get to a place and are with someone where you can really trust them.
With that scene I was like wait a minute therapist arenât supposed to do this. I mostly only knew that bc I had heard from other ppl abt their therapist saying how the therapist wouldnât come up to the patient in a public place but if the patient wanted to talk to the therapist then she would talk and have a conversation
The way the therapist confronted Wednesday with her own writing was so uncomfortable. It felt like she was using some of the themes to justify opinions she had already formed about Wednesday, which is a reaction I fear from my own interactions with therapists. I liked that Wednesday felt strong enough to walk away from the conversation, rather than try to justify those choices in her work. It seems to speak to a lot of self-confidence.
Wednesday is extremely self confident. Writing is also a way to explore one's emotions.
It feelt so wrong. Why did they let the therapist read any of Wednesday's unpublished writings without her agreement? I understand that they told her "Wednesday is writing a book", but actually letting her read it? It would be much better, if the therapist asked, if she can read the books.
Yeah I felt the same way. Iâm super uncomfortable about people looking through my art and writing without permission cuz some of it is really personal.
@@annoyingfandragon yes. đŻ
@@Akuliszi fr, my ex therapist would ask my mom to send her pictures of my private sketchbook without my knowledge or consent, i felt so betrayed. my sketchbook is something that i don't let anyone touch because it's filled with my private vents and everything, and here she was telling my mom to send her pics of some drawings in it. absolutely disgusting coming from a therapist
Youâd think the therapist wouldâve recognized that Wednesday saw this as confrontational and realized that her best bet was to try and dispel that.
yes that would have been a good course of action
@@GeorgiaDow yeah body language is key and dare I say it attitude is key. Am I wrong? Not sure if so well in a therapy session cuz I have asd and I often misread social cues and etc and can be exhausting.
@@GeorgiaDow I know when she says,â weâre not done yet,â made me uncomfortable.
The problem is, the writers have no idea what that looks like or want the therapist to be confrontational so weâre not upset at Wensdayâs decision to escape
@@SerenityM16 There are therapists like that though. My wife had a bad experience on her first attempt at therapy. She literally ran away and now refuses to even consider therapy. That therapist was able to do a lot of damage in 15 minutes they talked.
When I saw this scene, the therapist just rubbed me the wrong way. Somehow, she didn't hit me as someone I'd be comfortable with if it had been me who sat in Wednesday's seat. I'm glad to see it wasn't just me. :)
I did feel the same way = ) at first I was thinking it was going well and then quickly it was confrontational
i think that unsettling feeling was deliberate because the director wanted us to sus the therapist
I think they were going for a very specific vibe with herâŠ
The Hey Arnold episode âHelga on the Couchâ still remains my gold standard for fictional mental health practitioners.
The therapist seemed to me like she was pushing Wednesday with the first question.
Yeah, I wouldn't want to have someone as judgemental as the one in this show as my therapist... I've had quite a few therapists and social workers in my life... Thankfully, none were like her at least. Though, they weren't the greatest either and had hurt my trust quite a bit and made it harder to open up quite a bit, so my feelings on therapists isn't exactly positive in the first place.
Also, fun fact: Wednesday only blinks a few times in the entire show and this is one of the scenes where she does. You see when the therapist starts talking about her books that she isn't ready for this and she's caught off guard and blinks and opens her mouth, I just thought that was really interesting
I just saw it too!
It's at 13:32
@@littlemixsaidhi202 13:29 more accurate
Yeah she blinked like 5 times she wasnât ready to talk about it
As a trainee therapist this scene was so interesting yet so uncomfortable. The therapist was so confrontational to Wednesday and didn't show empathy or non-judgement and unconditional positive regard. Maybe it was because they wanted to set up something in the series (I'm trying to keep this spoiler free) but 100% this is not a representation of what a proper therapy session looks like. Thank you for pointing these things. It was very illuminating
I hope you will have a lot of success in your career. Happy you enjoyed the video = )
@@GeorgiaDow thank you so much đ
it was definitely to set up the story. because if she had made Wednesday comfortable then she wouldn't have gone out the window and met that one guy and do that one thing to that group of guys and then see that one guy in that thing she has and the principal wouldn't know about that one thing she has.
if you catch my drift.
She reminded me of my old therapist, my first one i can remember. I chose to go to therapy cuz i heard it could help then the one i got made me feel off and bad about myself lol, so now i don't feel comfortable talking to any more of them
@@josephinehendrick1533 the show is about the plot, not realistically depicting therapy sessions. it's a netflix show written for teenagers, don't take it so seriously
As a writer it would terrify me if someone had send the (pretty dark) horror novel me and my friend wrote to my therapist. That's just something you don't do. And because of how personal writing sometimes is, it's a huge sign of trust if writers share their work with you. By just reading trough it uninvited you break that trust.
I agree with you. Writing is sometimes personal and sharing bits of my writing is anxiety-inducing.
Exactly! My best friend and I wrote an extremely twisted romance novel and to this day Iâm reluctant to actually talk about it or finish writing it cuz itâs makes me feel judged and crazy.
Wednesday attempted to get these published. I very much doubt she cared about privacy. I think it had more to do with the therapist forcing it to be some sort of inner wednesday.
I totally agree, it took me a lot of courage to even tell my closet friend that I write and even more before I could send her my best poem
You absolutely read my mind, Iâve always seen my writing as something I share or write with someone I really trust, I would have a nervous breakdown if someone read my writing without my permission or trust to look at
One time I went to a therapist who started assuming that my writing was something psycological. It was actually really frustrating, because the writing had nothing to do with my issues, and was more of a fun escape. Please, to all the therapists, if you ask about somebodies interests and start talking about it- Don't assume and make leaps from the story or art to the persons issues. ASK them about their inspiration, insisting to delve into art and writing is bad if the person doesn't want to, or believes it has nothing to do with why they're there.
Thank you for this
Same here! I think if someone along the likes of the therapist in Wednesday were to read/view all the stuff I've written/drawn and kept to myself (perish the thought) they'd get very much the wrong idea. I project and vent occasionally but the vast majority of my dark art and writing is just having fun exploring dark themes, character psychology, practicing drama, or just chasing whumperflies. It's been interesting and exciting to me, has been since I was like nine, no projection needed.
I sometimes write dark fanfics for fun or to vent my stress (how dark it gets determines my stress level)
Separate art from artist
The decor of her office felt very âtell us you liked âEat Pray Loveâ without telling us you liked âEat Pray Loveââ⊠they were clearly going for this privileged, corporate-mindfulness persona for her character. Personally, I think they nailed her character.
oh my goodness yes ! so much so hahaha
BINGO! Nailed it.
Lots of people who see or even, pride themselves on existing on the fringe of society would find that environment dishonest and hostile off the bat.
@@dinosaysrawr To me it felt Sterile. To neat to tidy, yes its a work space but it still feels hostile to life.
@@TheLastSane1 , agreed!
YES! Absolutely agree! The whole office screams âIâm think Iâm above youâ
And i also think they nailed the character
Jenna really slayed her role as Wednesday, she shone in all of her scenes. While I grew up with Christina's Wednesday more, Jenna showed that her star is surely on the rise. đ
She was great in Scream 5.
I totally agree, usually when I watch a tv show or movie, I know I'm just watching an actor in a role but Jenna was so convincing to me she ceased to be Jenna the actor and became Wednesday.
Was also awesome that Christina was in the show
Shined*
@@arisenspirit shone is correct too
After my therapist being way worse than her I thought "If I might share, I will get her to be nicer to me"
It backfired. I started a session by saying "I feel bad my friends don't want to invite me to things"
And she replied (relatively unprovoked) with: "I can absolutely tell why and it's obvious you will never be invited."
And later this session she was the one to bring it back up again, saying "See? This is why no one wants to invite you to the cinema."
.... If anyone talks to me like this? I will not want to share.
...Who gave that woman a degree to be a therapist, wow.
Holy that is terrifying im so sorry âčïž
@@ketokeko Its so scary how theres alot of therapist stories like this, how did they even pass? it really makes me wonder what the tests are like that people like THESE can get a degree and pass
Lol... was Wednesday your therapist?
On a serious note, that's horrible. I don't get why people without empathy become therapists.
Exactly.
I will never forget when I was forced to go to a psychiatrist when I was in fourth grade because I was having hormonal outbursts/depressions. The principal called me crazy and told my mother I was insane and needed serious help. And my mom then forced me once a week to go see this woman. Who quickly after one session told my mother said that I was in fact: not insane. But because I was going through early puberty while I was still growing that everything I was doing was normal and not âin her jurisdictionâ. She made a point to say I didnât even need those sessions because I would grow out of it sooner rather than later. My mom got mad and we never went there again because she didnât like what the therapist had said to her. đ I quite liked her though and always wanted to go back to her.
Never did though, the next therapist I had literally did all the things you said not to do in this video. Iâll never forget when I told her about my trauma as a young child and her response was, âBut it sounds like your fault though.â I never hated someone more than I did in that moment Iâm not gonna lie. Every session after that I literally sat there and only answered her questions with, âIâm not going to answer that questionâ She honestly looked ready to pop a blood vessel đ My parents didnât like her either because she constantly forced them to sit in sessions and answer questions about themselves and how they felt about me. While she constantly diminished everything I said to make my parents answers invalidate my feelings. It was the worst experience of my life
my mother went through therapy she asked, for basically to validate her opinions in regards to the family relationship (she wanted what she wanted and she wanted to validate that). so after a few sessions my mother dragged us all one by one into sessions with her and the therapist, the therapist quickly found out who the problem was and my mom found other therapists. i'm sorry you had to go through this i hope things have improved sense.
The worst thing is when they send you to terapists because of family problems, but who need terapy are your parents, not you, I totaly hated this.
@@shay5479 Narcissists flock to the profession. It allows them a massive amount of power to manipulate people and feed their own ego. Not much can be done about it with the current system either.
From your description, it's pretty obvious which of the two therapists got more money out of the situation. It's very unfortunate.
I'm sorry you had to go through that
Honestly, I love seeing the different takes on this subject. Therapy is something that can completely change one's life for the better. But how it is approached and the ability of the therapist itself are equally as important. If done incorrectly, it could completely mess up the person.
I just wish if the show commented on whether they were intentional about dr. Kinbott doing powerplays and being slightly judgemental. If they wanted to portray a bad therapy session, then kudos to them, they made it work. But the show is rated 12+. Many of the viewers will get their first impression of therapy from this very show. They should be told that therapy isn't supposed to look like that, and that they can actually trust in mental health professionals to help them in times of need.
"If done incorrectly, it could completely mess up the person."
Or also do nothing, I heard of cases where therapy did jack shit for the patient.
@@TheOmegaCloud true. But often, a session that doesnt improve anything for the person makes them subconsciously develop a view of therapy as "a waste of time" and maybe even "therapy doesnt work for me, im too broken". These thoughts can mature and evolve into much more extreme opinions and emotions, such as "therapists are just conartists" or "im just too useless" which is what a meh therapy session can enable.
@@hellfrozenphoenix13 Agreed, and also it doesn't help that in therapy, like in all professions, there's a lot of con artists waiting for their next victim.
@@hellfrozenphoenix13 exactly. that's what happened to me, after 8 years, I lost my trust in therapy and thoughts like that do come up... I still want nothing more than to get better.
Honestly, I was horrified when I heard the therapist tell Wednesday that she's read all of her books and manuscripts. I used to write stories a lot, as well as keep a diary, especially as a teenager, so that I could word-vomit across the pages. None of my family was ever allowed near my diaries and notebooks with my tales, and they all respected that. Even when I wrote next to them on the couch, they'd leave me alone, and not sneak a peak. To imagine someone reading those tales without express permission, would be a personal nightmare. Goodness, I remember sometimes only allowing myself to voice some of my thoughts to those pages, because no one would ever know, so I could finally let go of those imaginings and memories. If a therapist ever did that (worse, if they had access to those writings from my family) I would probably leave, and if I was not allowed to, silently ignore that person for the rest of my sessions. The entire first scene between the therapist and Wednesday was just menacing as hell. Like being stripped down naked and having every sore spot turned into a weapon to be used against you - how could one ever be okay with that? I'm glad Wednesday removed herself from the situation, to me that seemed like the only viable strategy: to get the hell out of there.
When I was in school one of my teachers confiscated my diary, (I wasn't even in class) and then a week later I was pulled out of class and told off by my head of year for the content of the diary, she even called my parents about it and read it to them. It was awful, I still remember it vividly over a decade later. I never kept a dairy, or did any non school required creative writing again
@@eilatanggoh693 I don't know what to say, I'm that appalled by what your teacher did. I'm sorry that happened to you.
iâm too scared to even write them down so i feel you lol
As an individuals who is obsessed with writing narratives and being overly creative, this is most certainly my worst nightmare.
To be fair, these were books that she had tried to have published. Having them weaponized is obviously not okay, but it's not the same thing as stealing her journals.
The second they showed everyone including the therapist going on about how horrible she is for defending her brother was when I was planted firmly on Wednesdayâs side. This therapist isnât intent on helping her, sheâs intent on forcing her to change in ways sheâs not comfortable with. Sheâs a glaring representation of the world thatâs screaming âwhy canât you just be normal??â
I love that Wednesday cares so much about family that she will go to great lengths to protect them. I love that Wednesday cares so much about keeping people safe that she shoulders a murder investigation. Sheâs fearless, confident, strong and caring, all traits the therapist completely missed because she didnât bother to get to know her.
I can't understand why topical, informative, and interesting content like this isn't more popular. The effort you seem to put into the cosplays is just icing on the cake!
Wow, thank you! I am hoping it will become more popular in time. = ) appreciate it
@@GeorgiaDow Ditto on hoping it catches on more. Content like this is extremely helpful on so many levels. Your video on oppositional defiance helped me realize why I keep getting into the fights I do and can't back out (short version: backing down is either too physically painful or too soul-sucking to manage). Not sure I'll ever be able to disarm it internally with all the components involved, but that doesn't mean I won't find some way to navigate it.
It was in my recommended so it's happening! It's spreading! The knowledge is spreading!! :D
@@lilpsyche6971 was in my recommended too but I watch other therapist-y stuff too so đ
I was forced into going into therapy by my mom. I was woken up one day by my mom saying âget dressed weâre going somewhereâ and while already in the car she told me we are going to a CHRISTIAN religious therapistâŠ. I have severe religious trauma from growing up Christian and being told that being LGBTQ+ is going to send me to hell. I went there not wanting to open up at all but I told the therapist my situation and I even told her I had religious trauma. After that she went on the give me BIBLE VERSES đ it was truly the most belittling thing I have ever gone through. Not only was I forced to go into a place I wasnât comfortable in, but afterwards when I told my mom I didnât want to go back, she was mad at ME⊠for not wanting to be tricked and go through more trauma. My mom full on yelled at me for being ungrateful and was mad that she payed $60 for that session which she didnât even ask how I felt about it.
That should be illegal.
Religious... therapy??? Odd. I feel bad for you, people don't deserve religious trauma
Religious therapy?? Tf??
A therapist with a Christian world view. As a Christian myself i go to a religious therapist, but sheâs not-like-thatđ
As someone who is in therapy, having a therapist who doesn't assume they know what's going on inside my head is huge. I'm a pretty open person, but I sometimes have trouble expressing my feelings in words. It takes time for me to figure out how to describe my emotional state, especially if the emotions are complex. Having someone come right out the gate saying that they think something is wrong with me because of what someone else told them would be one of the quickest ways to get me to completely shut down.
yes and allowing someone the space to think is important, though on a show I guess they want them to get right to it
I actually liked that they showed this therapist. Iâve had similar experiences with other therapists, and not all therapists are that helpful. I think itâs important to note that different therapists seem to have different approaches, and i feel that you need to find the one therapist who makes you feel safer to work on yourself.
Very well said
@@GeorgiaDow Hello!
So basically waste money on a bunch of different therapists that probably won't work for me? No thanks.
I don't have the money for that
@@oo8962 which is why there should be more support for mental health and it should be treated just like physical illnesses.
Say you are in physical pain, and the doctor prescribes you with medication, but it doesnt help and you keep going back to the same doctor who just cant seem to find the cause for it. Do you just live with it or find another practitioner for a second opinion? Most of the times a second or third opinion is extremely useful to diagnose and treat the cause of the illness, because the first doctor could have a bias or has tunnel visioned to your illness or blind sided by probable unrelated but potential causes.
@@oo8962 but of course, iâm speaking from a position of privileged. My country does subsidize on mental healthcare for citizens, and that has helped tremendously in people seeking help for it over the years. Itâs not that much and more can be done to help it being more accessible to others.
I remember having to see a therapist as a kid because my father made mine and my moms life a living hell. He was the scariest man I knew, I would often be dragged away from my mother to visit him on the weekends because of custody things. It was a really horrible time so I had to visit therapy when I was around 8-10, I cant really remember. Anyway instead of helping me, the therapist started to pressure me into "forgiving" my father, asking why I don't want to see him anymore and that I should continue visiting him because "every father loves his kids" DESPITE knowing what happened to me. needless to say my mom got me out of therapy really quickly when I told her everything
Thatâs horrible! Iâm so glad your mom got you out of there! It sounds awful
I swear some people (therapists) just donât get it, and shouldnât be doing that job. Like what.
terribly disgusting, i hope you heal properly
Are we twins? Also, Iâm so sorry that happened to you.
This actually fits so well with me, as recently school tracked my search history and found me searching up suicide and self harm because of a test i failed. I got called to me guidance office shortly after. Instead of support I was basically interrogated for 80 minutes. Either i was forced to spill out things i didnt want to say or they would try to track it down on their computer (by tracking my grades, asking teachers, etc.) it felt dehumanizing, as if they werent doing it for my own well being but to prevent another student associated with them from committing suicide. Iâve been searching these things up for years, and they didnt care. Why now? Even worse, they called my parents who dont believe in therapy. I got betated and guilt tripped after they were told
How are things now ?
Wait that's like super illegal though-
I was beyond nervous when my parents asked me about therapy. However, they didn't ask if I wanted to, but if I thought it would help. It really made me think harder on the possibility, because the question wasn't about me being comfortable with the idea, but if I thought the end would justify those uncomfortable feelings. And it really did help. I don't need it any longer and I am much better because of it.
what a wonderful way your parents asked you about it and so respectful as well. Good parenting = ) I am happy it helped you
I had pretty much the same experience therapy did help but it ended up stressing me out like crazy (not because the therapist was bad, tho she went a little faster than I anticipated because my mom said she was slow to the heavy stuff) and I'm glad I don't need it anymore, but it did help a lot.
@@infinityc2859 I'm glad it helped in the end!
I love how the Therapist at one point becomes a suspect because of course she does. Wednesday sees that she canât trust her through her own eyes. She doesnât trust anybody. And when even Enid leaves her, she sees it as proof that sheâs meant to be alone. Of course Enid comes back and Iâm glad she and Xavier is patient with her. To them, Wednesday is misunderstood but still deserving of love. I also love that they do get frustrated because it can be very frustrating to find someone that just wonât open up or show any emotions of caring. Thatâs why I love the hug she and Enid get in the end. Enid really cares for Wednesday and I love love love that.
As soon as Kinbott started speaking to Wednesday outside of their sessions I was shocked, because my own therapist said from Session 1 that unless I approached them first they wouldn't even acknowledge me in a public place. The very fact I was seeing a therapist at all was something confidential and I had full control over who knew and who didn't.
So it was baffling to me that Kinbott would openly speak to Wednesday out in the street, who for all she knew, didn't want her peers to know.
When I watched this I guess I felt like there was something a bit 'off' with the therapist, but I'd never considered even a tenth of the stuff you brought up... it's so interesting, hopefully it will help people know what red flags to look out for in their own therapy too!
Thanks I am happy that you found it gave it feom another angle
Besides the stuff in the video, I think they put contacts in her eyes to make her pupils much bigger than they should be, and directed the actress to widen her eyes. It makes her look like a predator.
with my last therapist i expressed to her that life felt like a set of three rings: the inner rings being the comfort zone, the middle ring being the learning zone, and the outer ring being the panic zone. i wasn't sure how else to describe this feeling. you stay in your comfort zone most of the time but if you branch out a little into the learning zone you can, as stated, learn and grow, but if you go too far into that learning zone, that middle ring, you can end up in the panic zone and everything you just tried to learn will be negated. she told me she loved the way i started that, and that she'd use that to help people down the line.
anyway, it was really nice hearing basically the same thing come from someone who knows more about what they're talking about than i do ! this video was a treat. there were so many things about wednesday's therapist that rubbed me the wrong way, and even had me feeling trapped.
Impressive you found those things on your own you must be very introspective. I am happy you enjoyed the video and rebooking at this scene. Lets enjoy our grow zones = )
What a great way to frame that idea, I'm definitely going to remember that, thank you!
It feels like my learning ring is constantly changing how large it is
That therapist is actually better than the one I had when I was 16. She was supposed to be a therapist to help with anxiety but she actually made it worse, firstly, the therapy sessions would be with my mum, someone I don't want to open up to about some things, after a couple weeks she said she would try to have a private session with me, which made me excited to finally be able to have a session where I could open up. One day I ended up crying during a session, and the day after that my mum told me she got a voice message from my therapist talking about the session and what happened and how I cried and basically telling her how she thought I had a hard time showing my emotions, which just made me lose all trust I had in her. When I confronted her about it the next day she told me that my mum had the right to know because she was paying for the sessions, I ended up yelling at her (which is something I rarely ever do), she defended herself saying she didn't out me as trans, and that she could tell my mum about me yelling at her or how I was trans if she wanted to but she didn't because she was a good person
Also she did end up accidentally outing me to my mum, which ended with my mum giving me a transphobic lecture.
that 'defense' feels more like a veiled threat. jesus, what a piece of work
Im pretty sure her telling ur mother is illegal, and could've gotten her fired. I'm sorry u had to deal with that :(
I got sent to a child therapist in sixth grade. The first thing she ever said to me was "Maybe they think you are the a*hole," when I opened up to her about feeling like an outsider. She followed that up by preaching god to me and then telling my mother everything that I'd said to her, despite being told that it would be confidential. Being the neurodivergent little sh*t that I was, I not only stopped opening up, I took it as a challenge to see how quickly I could "break" her. đ€Ł She stopped wanting to talk to me after about 5 sessions of me trying to convince her that I was a witch. đ€Ł Unfortunately though, because of her, it took me around 20 years before I was willing to trust another therapist enough to get the help I needed from the start.đ
LOL thatâs hilarious! As a fellow neurodivergent would do the the same thing! đ§đŒââïž
That was a pro gamer move right theređ€Ł
I wish you could have had a better first experience of therapy...but at the same time I love and respect your reaction đ
So... Small spoiler to those who didn't finish the show.
I really hoped that dr. Kinbott turns out to be a competent therapist, reaches her and that we can see a moment of genuine vulnerability from Wednesday. I think the showrunners might have had been afraid that an effective therapy might push Wednesday to be kinder or just more "normie", taking away her edge and her identity as this dark force of nature. But I think this is a missed chance. Dr. Kinbott could have helped Wednesday face her actual problems. Like her fear of being in the shadow of Morticia. Or the struggle to find her own way and define herself as something else than her parents' child. Wednesday could have had become a better version of herself - in the way she defines better. More dark and witty, more creative, more independent from her mother, even standing up more openly for her values. And this could have showcased that the therapy was not for the therapist or the court, but for Wednesday herself. And the "therapist can help you even if you are a dark rebel" message could have helped all those teenagers out there watching the show to find courage to seek help from mental health professionals if and when they need it.
Showing her vulnerable side would have made Wednesday more relatable and more interesting too. (To be honest, while Jenna Ortega did a terrific job with her portrayal of Wednesday, I found Enid much more interesting because we can see her genuine vulnerable self and her strugles.)
i was really hoping for them to have a breakthrough :/ the choices of the show were disappointing. i dont think im really satisfied with any parts of the story. the only thing i liked was jennaâs acting. and thing lol. i really wanted to like the show but it just fell flat for me
Agreed, wholeheartedly!
This is what I want for season 2 so bad. The mask has to break a little bit more and I know that kinda pushes the boundaries on Burtonâs aesthetics because it would make her more relatable to ânormiesâ but I feel like it would be honest character progression.
I don't think Wednesday opening up to the therapist would have worked for her character, imo. With the way the first therapy session went, it makes sense that Wednesday wouldn't trust or feel comfortable opening up to her at all. The therapist broke her trust before they even met. If a stranger read my writing without being given permission first, I would always be uncomfortable around them.
On the other hand, I think we saw plenty of small, vulnerable moments in how Wednesday reacted around her friends. She clearly shows she cares about Eugene and Enid even if she's still really reserved.
For example, when Wednesday and Enid are talking on their balcony and Enid is upset. Wednesday opens up and tells Enid about the last time she cried. And then, at the end of the season, she hugs Enid even though up until that point, she would step beck every time Enid tried.
I feel like having Wednesday open up to the therapist would be out of character, especially since she's learning to work through her emotions much better through her interactions with people she's beginning to care for :)
Edited to add: although Wednesday is very deadpan, I feel like Jenna still did a great job at showing how Wednesday is feeling through very small expression with her eyes. I felt like Wednesday was opening up and being more vulnerable throughout the series even if it wasn't to the therapist. She even did have a small vulnerable moment with Morticia when asked about her visions :)
â@@ashleymartin8093 I noticed those subtle vulnerable moments too.
One scene that even earned a chef's kiss from me was her interaction with her brother by the river. He doesn't expect her to be kind to him because of the way they've been treating each other over the years, and you see that Wednesday really holds back in that moment. She was actually getting use to people expecting some form of caring from her when they are upset that it was becoming part if her instincts to let slip/fake some concern. But her relationship with her brother doesn't look like that, they have a different understanding between them. She than shows she cares for her family not directly at Pugsley, but by stating how awful their parents would feel if either went to jail, and she even demands strength from Pugsley at that moment - not because she is usually cruel to him to the point of not acknowledging his suffering, but because she knows he can take it while dealing with his own suffering on his own terms. That's how he's probably always been - just like she had always been her own dark self, and she respects that.
I don't know if I just had a really bad and awkward upbringing with my siblings, but I found that scene very heartwarming.
I was so mad that she read Wednesday's books without her permission. It felt like she was weaponizing it against her even if her goal was to help Wednesday
jenna's acting at 12:55 when hhe therapist mentions her novels was just soooo good. the reaction is so subtle but says so much đ
Last therapist I went to, actually all of them, seemed to care more about getting paid than actually helping. I mentioned that I'd been diagnosed with ADHD as a child and they laughed at me and accused me of being a stoner. I mentioned that my parents religious beliefs was stressing me out, the f***ing therapist said to "pray more." Pretty sure that's not even professionally allowed. There's a reason I've been so weary about going back.
They don't care. It's like you say. They just want their paycheck. They'll try to force their beliefs on you and completely disregard professionalism.
I hear there's been an increase in therapists no longer accepting insurance. They really can't claim to care if they're actively blocking lower income people from accessing their services. And I hope you reported those jerks. They shouldn't be allowed to practice.
@Lucien Fortner yea...no, there is more money in not taking insurance. One reason they don't have to take insurance is because they don't have to there isnt a lot of them around accepting new patients in a timely manner, and people will pay a great deal of money to get their Rx filled. It is so much easier not accept insurance to, and they most likely get paid more without.
Psychiatrists (the ones that work with meds) are in such a short supply some visits are $100+ but they have openings so they can get that. Self pay patients require less back end paperwork so less support staff is needed too, that ups the profits. Plus just because they are sending a 100 charge to insurance, the insurance company may only allow $45 to be paid out. That $45 is reduced if the patient has a copay so if the patient is paying $25 per visit insurance will only be paying $20. Insurance companies also randomly deny claims to see if they can get away with not paying it because the cost of labor to get it fixed is more expensive than writing it off.
@@rachelh9071 You're literally proving our point here. Therapists refusing insurance to in order to maximize profits are actively harming the communities they're meant to be serving. Mental health care should never be treated as a luxury for the rich.
@@lucienfortner841 This
I like the way the cinematography was done for these scenes also. The heavy, slightly distorted close-ups help portray a claustrophobic ambiance, allowing the viewer to feel a little bit of that uneasiness/discomfort Wednesday is going through as she deals with the situation at hand. I think that was a interesting thing for the directors to do and it certainly achieved the intended effect! At least for me it did :)
This makes so much sense. Kinbott was way TOO aggressive and I can relate to Wednesday a lot here, I would feel paranoid and defensive too. The way you described Wednesday, "black sheep" and "everyone's against me, so why bother", that really resonated with my own experiences, and I didn't even realize that's why I relate to her, subconscious or not.
But like seriously, that makes so much sense. My therapist is super genuine and kind and I realize that she's not intrusive at all. Like letting me communicate and explain, and doesn't ever do this.
So this makes sense. What makes a good therapist and what is bad or unethical practices.
I've never had therapy one on one but as a kid in grade school through middle school I was in group therapy for "problem kids" and I am so grateful our therapist was nothing like that woman. The therapist in the show was the exact kind of authority figure I couldn't stand. As an adult, I still can't stand people like this. They are often hypocrites themselves
I love how she says "Everything in these sessions is strictly confidential" after leading with "I just read about you from your school counselor's notes". It just makes me personally feel like anyone else could read her notes and therefore it is actually not strictly confidential. I know there are different rules for different places, but it just feels like she should've switched the orders of those so Wednesday knew it was strictly confidential from the start.
i remember when i was a kid, my mom walked into my room and accused me of having depressive thoughts because i wouldn't talk or hangout with anyone, i say accused because she didn't sit me down and ask me if i was alright, she stood in front of the door so i couldn't walk out until i told her even when i said i wasn't ready to open up, before i even got to say anything she told me i' m going to therapy, when all this was happening i was crying cause i was overwhelmed and she tried hugging me and took it as me proving to her that i wasn't okay, in the end she took me to the doctor they told her i have ADHD and anxiety, as well as possibly having depression, i went to a therapy session once to try it out, and all the therapist would ever bring up was my recent attitude towards my mother, ( which was because of said incident) because her and my mother talked before and was told to BY MY MOTHER
Literally me
The "I've read about you and the books you've written" thing was like a nightmare for me to watch. Yesterday I saw on twitter that someone posted their own secret alphabet they did in order to encode their writings. You'd be amazed to know that thousands of people shared the keys to their own coded aplhabets as well. All did it to encode their writings so that others couldn't read them because they had no privacy or a sense of privacy in the house. I was surprised because I did the same, I write journals and stories, but the amount of people who also do that was astonishing.
It felt extremely disrespectful to watch that because writing is not like talking. You can lie when you speak but written language is genuine. I remember Wednesday wrote about a girl solving mysteries, she even described her personality to be like hers and her relationship with mother was similar to Wednesday and Morticia's. Sometimes writing stories may not be for the sole purpose of creative writing, but for a creative way of journaling. Even well-known writers admit that sometimes their own personalities are projected onto their characters subconsciously, so just imagine how personal it's gonna be such a story written with the intention of creative journalling.
Wednesday is a writer. A writer is not just someone who writes to publish and sell, but anyone who prefer and are better at conveying thoughts and emotions through writing is a writer. Some people vent through speaking to others or some draw how they feel, each are other ways of doing the same thing.
I went to therapy once and hated it. I have trust issues and to throw a person suddenly into a trust based situation did nothing but make my anxiety worse. The therapist was pushing Wednesday hard and trying to say "You feel this way because X" before even letting Wednesday speak for herself or open up at her own pace
I also wanna say that punishing someone for defending a person is just setting them up for disaster. Was violence okay? No but in Wednesday's mind she was protecting her brother.
This one hit a little close to home since I was given a few therapists and counselors to talk to when I was younger. I still don't know why. The one that sticks out the most in my head is one of the first ones that visited me. I didn't even know she was coming and my mom, who herself was against the idea of a counselor, couldn't do anything about it due to it being a state-sent thing. There was one part that really rankled me. She kept asking me why I thought a certain thing was and kept pressing me on it even though I said that I couldn't explain it. Some weeks later and I was diagnosed with Autism. Everyone that knew me was both shocked and skeptical about it. Some years later and more talks with people they decided that the counselor who said that was an idiot and struck it from my records. But for a few years there stood in my official documents that I was Autistic even though I obviously wasn't, or if I was not to a degree that is noticeable or extreme. All because of one bad therapist who thought they knew me better than I knew myself. Ever since I've had an instinctive distrust of any therapists and councelors I've talked with, though it is offset by being around those that actually care and know what they're talking about.
I hope some of the therapists were helpful
I know someone who's ex wife paid a therapist to tell him he was autistic and that was why he was so upset she was cheating on him.
Same here but Misdiagnosed as ADD/ADHD found out that she had Misdiagnosed a whole lot of people because Budgetary reasons and she was also the worst pick for Children I would say under the age of 16 because she Stuttered and Mumbled and Rambled/meandered through things. I ended Up not getting diagnosed properly until I was 19, Though My Graunty -In-Law (Great Aunt) who worked as Teacher for a certain group of Kids suggested I could have CAPD (Central Auditory Processing Disorder) Which I do have a Mild Case of .
I eventually got diagnosed with Asperger but to late to help with Schooling.
As someone with genuine autism, yeah, thats really weird
My favorite part of the therapist scenes are the decor. She has clown pictures and masks (things where people put on a âfaceâ) and a cuckoo clock đ. The close ups of the therapistâs face shows sheâs peering in and being intrusive. Her side hobby of taxidermy where sheâs attracted to posed scenes between animals was also a hilarious addition.
One thing I loved about the scene where the therapist tells Wednesday sheâs read her books is that this the (I think) only scene Wednesday blinks in. It shows just how deeply thrown and uncomfortable she is by this revelation and breach of trust.
As a clinical psychology doctoral student and someone who just binged all of Wednesday, I absolutely love this video haha
Congrats on your work! Wish you the best on your dissertation and thanks Iâm so happy you enjoyed it
Iâve just been ghosted by my therapist for the second time. At least this time it only happened two months in so it hurts less. But I am so tired of terrible therapists in this terrible system. I wish all therapists cared as much as you do.
I am sorry that they disappeared I hope you know that there are very thoughtful ones out there and I hope you find yours. Thank you for the compliment
I've switched therapists a couple times already, and these scenes in the series reminded me a lot of my two first ones: starting of as if I was supposed to completely trust them just because they were therapists, pushing constantly for answers I wasn't willing to give, telling me to express myself in ways I wasn't comfortable doing, completely disregarding what I wanted help with just to try and "fix" things I'd never had a problem with. Sessions with both of them were terrible to the point I would rather live with severe anxiety than continue the therapy.
And then I met my current therapist and pretty much my favourite person in the world. She helped me to understand that therapy was actually about me changing for myself and not to fit into whatever other people thought I should be. And most importantly: she showed me I'm not obligated to show anyone a part of myself I'm not ready for people to see, even in therapy. Sometimes I wish everyone had someone like you and my therapist, people like that can really change someone's direction in life.
To be honest there are A LOT of bad therapists out there. I'm happy that we're finally talking about this. From someone calling me sweetheart to someone (head of psychology in a clinic nonetheless) telling me I just *imagined* my abuse ~ I have seen it all. On that note: Stay away from betterhelp folks. Good analysisđđ»
This whole therapist creeped me out. From her smile to the fact she has read Wednesday's books without her knowledge I just got a bad feeling about this therapist throughout this entire scene. Loved your breakdown đ
Also your Wednesday costume looks great đ
I have zero training or experience as a mental health professional but even I can read body language well enough to know if you ask something and they react like you pulled a weapon on them it is time to back up and change your approach. Great video and very well explained. If it were not for some bad experiences of my own I would have a hard time believing someone in that profession could be so unaware of basic body language and social cues.
I was looking forward to your opinion on Wednesdayâs line: âYouâve already decided you donât believe meâ because Iâve been there and I still have no idea how to handle it the moment I realise the therapist in turn wonât believe me đ€
I always felt iffy with my first therapist. There was something about the way she would ask questions and respond to my answers that made me feel like I was being studied more than talked to. And it was particularly bad when I shared with her something private and personal, something about a boy, and she reacted by suggesting that I tell my Mom this, because "don't I want to share this important information with my Mom?" and I told her no way. It wasn't something even related to my Mom. My Mom did not need to know about it. It made me very uncomfortable that she said this. Then, after the session, she invited my Mom to talk to us and after some discussion, said that I HAD SOMETHING TO SAY TO MY MOM. She looked at me pointedly. I just said nah, I don't have anything to say. She violated my trust. :/
There's been a lot of talk recently about how Wednesday shows many signs of having autism. As a therapist, its crazy to me how she isn't aware of that part of Wednesday and never took it into account.
My first therapist was awful.
1) My family set it up and told her what they thought was wrong, making her presume my issues. 2) She assigned me homework, I was a student at a university. I don't want to do more homework.
3) Her room was cold. Black leather couch, white walls, all the light was natural but the window view was of a city parking lot. Doesn't help that it's winter so everything looked depressing.
4) When I talk about my life, I got to my first trauma, she immediately cut me off and started tackling that issue instead of letting me finish.
5) My mom (a worrier) called her one time when I was refusing to leave my bed or eat. When I visit the next time, she was really aggressive towards me. Telling me off that my mother should not call her for issue outside of session.
6) I witness a panhandler mistreating dogs in order to make money. It made my blood boil and I told her. Her attitude was, "it is what it is" and my reaction is not appropriate as there is nothing I can do.
When she cancel a session with me, I completely forgot about her and said good riddance. As I had more therapist, and learned more about mental health. I realize that she was probably new to the position and was just following the textbook.
Some good therapist was a man with a physical deformity (taught me to open up to people). A psychiatrist who help boost my confidence. A elderly Sigmund Freud type man who explored my dark side. And finally a young lady who helped me process grief and taught me self-love. If your new to therapy, don't be afraid to jump between therapist. Each has their own strength and weaknesses, just pick one you feel the most comfortable with.
This happened to me when I was 7 when my parents were trying to fix their problems with my father's alcoholism. I shut down every attempt to get to open me up. I hated going there, I hated being there I hated everything about it. When guy #1 didn't work, they moved on too another guy to try and pry me open, and all he wanted to do was to drug me up. I wasn't having any of it and I fought everything. It established my oppositional relationship to therapists and psychologists before the age of 10. This didn't help when the real depression hit me at 12. I fought everyone that might have wanted to help. Things got worse from there.
It wasn't until I was 14 and things had spiralled way out of control before I met the only therapist that I would talk to. I set my own ground rules. He explained his responsibilities to me and others. There was mutual respect, safety and space to be honest for once. That changed the next 4 years of my life and gave me options to go forward in life that weren't there before. It helped me understand why I keep people at a distance, my lack of willingness to trust, and recognize what my independence based mindset is good for.
i appreciate that you wouldnât read notes on the first session. iâve had a long run of bad doctors and been faced with a lot of corruption in the industry. just this year i was placed in an abusive psychiatric hospital for two months. in their notes, they went as far as to make offhand remarks about me faking my genetic disability that has been professionally diagnosed and treated for multiple years. the location aimed to make you complacent and quiet about your struggles, so the notes they provided were not actually intended to diagnose or treat me. my mother and i have moved to another state and are now incredibly selective about what documentation we provide, since so much of it was written by someone who was either unqualified or did not like me. it makes me feel a lot more hopeful to know that some professionals will leave notes for later and first actually meet someone. had my mother and i not went through the pain of reading those notes, and a doctor did not do a first appointment without reading them, i would have professionals immediately questioning the disability that literally ruins my life.
I am really sorry you went through a string of bad sessions it is a hard thing to trust again when that has happened. I hope you find someone who you can trust if ever you need it and know there are good therapists out there who care and want to help
Once the school psychologist trash talked students to a security guard infront of me while I was having an episode, when I pointed this out while she tried to call me crazy in our session with my guidance counselor she got up, started yelling and stormed out of the meeting, everyone in the room was silent
That woman wasn't a good psychologist, THATS why she left
Wednesday's guidance counselor may not have been "broken" by her, just challenged, and THATS why she left
I love how you evaluated it as an actual therapist. When I was watching it I felt severely judged and I didn't even do anything. The way she squinted her eyes and gave that smile just felt really snarky. "And if I can't leave or escape and your trying to pry information out of me why can't I hid in the bathroom? At least I'm safe. Do you think you could go into Tyler and his fathers conversation when he's loading Elvis into the truck? I really relate to that one a lot
My father was stealing from me when I got into his custody following my mom's death. The therapist was actually a drug and alcohol counselor approved for prison inmates where he worked. She was not a school counselor. I was not touching any such drugs and alcohol and never have. I was a minor. She asked me if I was lying, where my mother kept additional money, and she even ate during appointments. My school would call me into counseling over the PA. I never knew why I was there officially but it was clear my dad wanted money. During that time, his wife (my stepmom) spent a lot of money after pleading poverty all the time. My mom's accounts were drained during this time. I later found out my father was cheating on my stepmom with the therapist. My father and the therapist threatened me with a foster home when I crashed at my uncle's house one night. My uncle lived next door to my grandparent's place (where my father put me because his wife did not want any kid in her house except for the one she had with my father). I had become gaunt since my father's custody. The therapist said my father put me on a "diet." I was already a thin guy before his custody of me. It was no diet and this excuse came out of nowhere. I was gaunt because I was being denied food outright. I went to the appointment one day and a new therapist was present. She had no clue why I was on the appointment booking. She was also shocked at my gaunt frame. She was shocked to be doing therapy on a minor at a school by substituting for someone with no credentials in counseling minors. The first therapist? She continued to be a therapist and became a social work professor. Lynn Guerrin of Morehead KY. What a charletan.
This is _court_ _ordered_ therapy. Of course it's going to be a game and a confrontation. It couldn't possibly start out any other way.
Jenna barely moves, yet the smallest thought her character has is immediately clear. So delicious
I was hoping someone was gonna point out that it's court ordered cause nearly everyone here's taking the angle that it isn't and because they weren't thinking it's court ordered I think some people missed the point
It didn't have to be so aggressive and provocative though. She could've eased into it more and not been so judgmental
@@anaiyahluther They're literally setting her up as the antagonist here. To be used as a red-herring.
I think they were a little blunt and on the nose about it, but I can still see their intentions.
@@EndoScorpion I get that. I just think it's weird to say court ordered therapy can't go any other way
I actually had court ordered therapy back when I was in my adolescent years. It was healing and eye awakening. If the therapist is transparent with you and lets you know that they are an objective actor and not someone working against you, it becomes better.
Donât make sweeping generalizations, they usually arenât right.
I wish you were my therapist as a child in the 90âs. I definitely had some untrustworthy mental health care providers growing up. The emphasis was for me to not burden my parents, rather than to get my parents to learn healthier parenting techniques for their traumatized daughter who was also growing up with undiagnosed ADHD and struggling in school because of it (I just got diagnosed this year at 31).
I truly believe more children and adolescents would be better off with therapists like you. Even as an adult, your channel and content has been very healing and validating âšđ«¶đœ
Just started the show.
Wednesday is such a relatable (for the most part) mood.
With the caveat of that Iâve only seen the first episode, does the assessment here take into account that an aspect of the Addams Family is that they have an entirely different outlook and morality than the world around them (like not batting an eye at Wednesday and Pugsley committing homicidal acts against each other with encouragement from Morticia and Gomez)? Is that unique morality an element of the show?
They have a family session at some point... but no spoilers :)
My last second to last therapist was like the one in Wednesday. Prying, judgemental, prescriptive and snide. Every session quickly devolved into a cerebral game of three dimensional chess. That's how I ended up with a Sociopathic diagnosis. Now my current one is a member of my in law family (but so far removed that it's still ethical), and just being to able to chat and do it with my wife, trust was returned (and the diagnosis overturned).
I love seeing your takes on how therapy is represented in movies, excited to see more!
thank
@@GeorgiaDow yes do more plzđ
I remember this one counselor that on the second session she wanted to talk to me about a really traumatic event to me. I kept telling her that I didnât feel comfortable with doing so but she kept asking and asking. After the tenth time of asking I yelled at her because she didnât listen. I was in tears and then she yelled at me. She said I was disrespecting her and she wouldnât take it. It felt so wrong because she knew it was a sore subject for me, and she was the one trying to force me to talk about it. I will mention again that it was only the second session.
As someone who has been court-ordered to see therapists multiple times and some of them were with my abusive parent. These scenes in Wednesday were very uncomfortable, relatable, and frustrating. But thank you for pointing out these scenes and the issues in them
I had two major instances where my trust in my parents was significantly damaged. The biggest of which happened when I was about 13-14.
When I was about 13 and a half, I got diagnosed with autism. At the time, I didn't know much (or really anything) about what autism even is, so obviously that was pretty scary for me. This was halfway through the school year, so luckily I did have a pretty great support system of friends I was comfortable with and would hang out with often.
Turns out that my parents had been talking with the person who I was assigned to at the place I went to for help with homework (not quite a therapist, but kinda adjacent to it), and decided that it was apparently in my best interest to be sent to a special education school. Did they tell me? No. I spent the rest of the school year completely unaware of what my parents were doing behind my back, and when summer vacation rolled around I said a happy goodbye to my friends, fully expecting to see them again once the vacation ended. Well, two weeks before the end of summer vacation, I was just watching some youtube videos on my tablet, and my mom walked into the room. Translated as literally as I can, her words were "Iris, you're now going to a different school." I legitimately feel like my parents made sure everything was in order, and then told me as an afterthought so I wouldn't show up to the wrong school once the year started.
That was already a major loss of trust in my parents, especially when that school, despite apparently being 'better' for me, was only detrimental to my mental health instead of beneficial.
The second instance was on a lesser scale, and more to do with how I was told something instead of what thing actually happened. When I was almost 15, the rabbit that we'd had since I was 3 got sick. My mom went to take her to the vet, and although I wanted to go with her, I had an appointment at the hairdresser and thus couldn't go. Well, it turns out that the almost 12-year-old rabbit had an infection and due to her age, treatment would be extremely difficult and possibly even ineffective. So, my mom made the decision to have the rabbit euthanized. I understand the decision completely, but given that we'd had the rabbit since I was 3 and thus I could barely remember life without her, that loss hurt. A lot. And how did my parents decide to tell me that my closest animal companion was dead? By having my dad come by the hairdresser and tell me, translated word for word, "Iris, Nina is dead." I had my head in a sink because I was getting my dipdye redone, and that's how I was told. They didn't wait until I got home to sit me down and tell me in a comfortable environment, they didn't even wait for me to be done with my haircut, no. They told me in an environment where I was in full 'out in public' mask. I had to force tears to seem even a little normal.
Mind you my parents aren't bad parents, but they're both painfully neurotypical with two neurodivergent daughters (my sister has Tourette's). It's no surprise that my most comfortable and safe person growing up was my sister, and not one of my parents.
yeah neurotypical parents sometimes forget to think about how it comes across to us neurodivergent kids. and if you dont need a lot of extra help in school you should be able to go to your usual school.
@@makadoodledoo my issue was that I physically couldn't keep up with the amount of homework I was given. I'd spend all afternoon at that homework help place (usually until at least 5pm), and since it was every weekday, barely had a social life because of it. And even despite all that, I still couldn't get all my homework done on time.
What makes the whole 'not discussing the other school with me' thing even worse, is that when they did tell me I was going to the other school, they said that it was because of my issues with homework. They didn't tell me that it was a special education school, didn't even explain to me what special education is, and just expected me to go on as usual.
Why would you force tears? Thatâs very strange and definitely wouldnât make you seem ânormalâ
@@Belltogo3000 the pet that we'd had for almost as long as I can remember had died. I think that not crying would've been more concerning to my parents.
The therapist in this series reminds me of the school psychologist at my high school lol. I got put in there one time because people were spreading rumors about me self-harming that weren't true, and even though I proved that it wasn't true, he seemed to insist that I was in denial and just believed everyone else. I was just trying to figure out a way out of there because he was so annoying, so I was silent for a little while and then said something like, "Can I just go now?" and he literally said, "Oh, I thought you were about to share your life story or something." Like... do these people even study psychology? Other than the psychologist from my elementary school, every school psychologist that I've met has been the same amount of awful and they always expect the same thing out of everybody lol
One time in highschool, one time, I was put to talk to a psychologist, first thing she said "I can't solve your problems for you"
My answer? "Yeah I know", didn't want to talk anymore and ever since I have refused to seek any form of therapy, instead learned to deal with things on my own and with good friends that I've made.
Some people just like their title and what it implies to be a "Doctor"
19:13 The way your sitting stiffly forward and making direct & serious eye contact made my brain go !!! Demonstrated your point perfectly.
i remember that on of my old therapist forced me to describe one time that i nearly died well drowning and one time i watched my sister nearly drowned because she didn't believe that either of us "properly drowned". never went to her again
As a professional therapist myself I agree with your assessment of this scene 100%. Of course I'm sure it was intentionally written that way to move the plot along and not to be reflective of a real therapy session.
I told my kiddo went to therapy as it was recommended for a tough time, I told her that this is someone you can talk to about things you don't know how to talk to me about or don't want to talk to me about. Its the same as when mom goes and talks to *my therapists name*. If you do not want to do this anymore that is perfectly fine and if you do not feel comfortable with this person, I will find another that does make you feel comfortable.
I'm really glad you're talking about this because the first time I watched the show whenever this therapist was on screen I felt so uncomforatble and crowded probably because she reminded me of a therapist I had T-T
Both of the actors did amazing jobs potraying each of the characters
I have autism and right now, Iâm part of a transitional program that teaches me skills to living out in my own. Part of the program is a weekly therapy session. While my therapist is nowhere near as bad as the one Wednesday deals with, there are times where I feel like sheâs not helping. For instance, whenever I deal with a bad customer, her first instinct is to try to play devils advocate and get me to understand where theyâre coming from. On one had, fair point. But in some instances where theyâre particularly nasty (one had the audacity to claim that she was the reason I had my job) I feel like I shouldnât have to. And it feels like theyâre blaming me for not reacting a certain way. TLDR: I get where theyâre coming from, but sometimes it can feel a bit much. Do you have any thoughts?
Oh man, I have a lot of thoughts about this. Iâm still pursuing diagnosis but Iâve got suspected asd and/or add.
Societal norms used to include dominance and intimidation of âservantsâ and people (especially people with internalized white supremacy, misogyny, and judgments) take it out on âserversâ or people in helping roles. Roles in social settings where itâs expected one party be accommodating over the other. (Employer/employee, customer/clerk, teacher/student etc.)
I think their instinct as a therapist is to understand, because they're rarely in a position where that's a bad choice.
What I've been told instead, is that we need to establish healthy strategies to protect ourselves. For example, in my case, understanding what I can and can't control in the situation.
Another thing is that you can try to communicate as openly as possible with your therapist. If they do or say something that gives you bad vibes, try to ask first what they mean. For example: why do I need to empathize with this person? Why is that helpful for my goals? What is the purpose of you playing devil's advocate?
It might seem confrontational, but you're supposed to be a team, so it's better if they let you know the purpose of everything that's happening in the session.
As an autistic person who has worked customer service, idk I kindof learned to detach myself from rude customers but I know it can get to you if you have confidence issues. One thing I remind myself is that people are bold because of entitlement, but the reality is that they donât know you. People lash out because of their own life and stress, but you canât take it personally. I say this as someone who has struggled with this
What I like to do:
Just treat other people as NPCs. Don't bother understanding them to deeply, just accept that they behave in a certain way, have certain lines they say and behaviour they exhibit and offer your character a few options of interacting with them.
Ignore them, or choose an option with a favourable outcome for you.
Once you try to reason with them, trying to get them to understand the issue, your logic, your emotions or even question their own goals, you will break them. They are not meant to be interacted with in that way.
These are most people you encounter. The exceptions are the ones you'd like to have meaningful interactions with.
I'm a psych student in grad school and I'm currently working on my practicum and getting experience through an internship. I really appreciate Georgia's insights and things that she's thinking about when it comes to how the therapist treats Wednesday. For me, I saw a good opportunity to build rapport when Wednesday attempted to be confrontational frame the relationship as adversarial. I would have attempted to clarify what my job was in relationship to Wednesday. As far as I'm concerned, my clients are the ones directing their own therapy sessions. As Georgia says, the therapist is there to listen, to try to understand, to help the client gain insight on their own situation and to provide them with tools to improve their situation. So when Wednesday describes her previous therapist as "not a worthy adversary", I would have responded with "Well, I don't want to be your adversary" or something to that effect. I would want to signal to her that I'm not judgemental and I'm not threatening.
When I start working with a new client, I try to start off by trying to give off a sense of Karl Rogers' good ol' "unconditional positive regard". I want my client to feel like I care about them and I want them to succeed and flourish. I also allow them to kind of set the boundaries and the pace that they want to address their issues. Some people are very guarded. Other people will dive right to the heart of the issue and get very personal very quickly. As long as I can maintain some professional distance and appropriate boundaries, I'm kind of willing to go where the client wants to go with their therapy. I also try to provide empathetic statements without suggesting what my client should be feeling. If a client brings up a moment of trauma, I usually don't say something like "that must have been difficult or painful for you". I prefer to say "that is not an easy thing to deal with" or "that sounds like a difficult situation". I think sometimes, if therapists are overly concerned about making their clients anxious, they end up making them anxious. I think it's good to be sensitive and tactful, but I also think it's good to project a feeling of calm and suggest that the situation is manageable and that things can get better.
I've gotten some positive feedback from clients about my demeanor and they've commented that it's easy to talk to me or share things with me. Obviously, I'm still learning and I'm still getting experience, but I thought I would add my own thoughts and this has helped me think about my own approach and my own therapeutic philosophy. I think the things Georgia is saying are spot on. I'm not trying to challenge any of the things she said. I'm just offering my own perspective on this particular case.
As a point I think should be made is some of the therapist's comments and behaviors when Wednesday answers that she sent a thank you to the Editior (cuts to a scene where the editor opens a gift box and reaches in, pulling out a hand covered in sprung rat traps). So the therapist basically has lost all trust as by that point Wednesday was willing to lie outright.
We dont know if the therapist knows this and lying to your therapist is something common during the beginning phases of therapy and sometimes it is just a fear of judgement or feeling unsafe. It can still be worked through with time and patience.
Ive been in and out of therapy for about 13 years now, and it took a long time to come to trust professionals down the line when my initial experiences were so harmful. I remember talking about feeling hopeless, and like there was no point in living when I would just die like my dad at some point, and the therapist cut me off with "just a warning, if you say anything that implies you might be a danger to yourself, I am obligated to report it." I already knew that, we had established it from the get-go, but something about bringing it up mid conversation felt like he was telling me not to tell him. I lied about feeling suicidal for like 4 years because it felt like I would just be making the therapists job harder. That was the tip of the iceberg as far as bad therapy, but my only experience that related to the content of the video lol. It takes a bit to find them sometimes, but there are good, genuine therapists and psychiatrists out there that will do right by you.
As a therapist, this was healing. Thank you.
I wish I had a therapist like you, you seem so nice and like a really good therapist. every therapist I've ever had either retired or stopped contacting me after 1-3 sessions and never actually really helped with my problems.
As someone who's been in therapy since I was eleven, seeing all the clips of that therapist felt so scary and violent. Too far too fast even for me who commonly gives a run down of my situation to the therapists I see. Like wtf lady even looked creepy at times-
If you took insurance plans I would 100% sign up. Iâm not even joking. You really have a unique way of breaking things down. Awesome content đ
thanks so much = ) that is very kind of you to say.
@@GeorgiaDow youâre most welcome and thank you as well :)
We're at the point where as soon as a therapist turns up on screen, my son gets ready for the "Ouch, no, that's not how we do it..." By the end of Wednesday, he was beating me to the criticisms.
Impressive that he can do that !
Now that I think about it...the whole room seemed to put Wednesday in the spotlight, as if it was a trap. I wouldn't mind as much, since I'm on the grey area of things. However, the therapist, felt aggressive and invasive, that would of cause my threat assessment to go off.
I sometimes find it hard to guess what Wednesday is feeling by relying on her facial expressions & body language since her face looks so deadpan almost all the time & her body movement looks so rigid (well, at least according to my non-observant eyes, LOL)đ€ I honestly find it remarkable that Georgia is able to see Wed's micro-expressions and perceived what Wed's thinking! đ€ wow!! excellent work as always, Georgia!
P.S. You look cute in that black suit while cosplaying Wednesday Addams & I love those pigtails! â€â€
I was forced to meet up with a psychiatrist, a year ago. You see I'd finally told my parents about some of my problems and then with them panicking, they forced me. Which is why I never talked to him. We spent 3 or 4 sessions together, with me barely even talking.
I never felt comfortable because they'd forced me and hadn't even told me anything until the said day.
Now that I want to go to therapy to get a diagnosis that I believe is something relative to me, I've started going. Much happier and I trust her, at least more than my other. Don't force anyone to go to therapy. It might make it worse. Encourage them, but don't force them.
I was sent to a psychologist in elementary school due to problems I had with learning and bullying. My parents did tell me beforehand.
She was nice to me, made me feel comfortable around her and I came to like talking to her.
I was diagnosed with ADHD and she sent my school a list of suggestions to help me learn (a lot of teachers did not want to do it, but my parents asked for a meeting with them and they did apply what the list told them)
Tried therapy twice. It was horrendous. I am so happy when people find a good therapist and someone that truly wants to help them grow through whatever they need help with. This therapist has a very different disposition and is very insightful.
There are bad professionals in all occupations. People should never forget that.
I must say it is not just in the media that therapists get a bad rap. I have been seeing therapists for thirty years and have had exactly one which I felt really cared about my well-being. True it has been mostly those therapists whose clients are poorer in such settings as county hospitals. I always got the feeling that they were overworked and didn't have time to really help, nor any particular interest in doing so. Psychiatrists appear even more disinterested, I even had one who wore sunglasses during the sessions which made me very uncomfortable.
âHe lost a testicleâ Georgia, you trying not to laugh, made me laugh so much đđđ
So glad you covered this therapy session. I binged watched the show yesterday and was hoping youâd cover it.
My thoughts on Wednesdayâs therapist: Is she really a qualified therapist because YIKES! đ Watching the show I did wonder if the therapist was some kinda stooge in a way. Someone pretending to be a therapist to then relay information back to the Principal, but no, she was meant to be be an actual therapist as a character. đ
This âtherapyâ session was way too heavy for a first session and wasnât, in my opinion even therapy at all. There was no written agreement signed to explain the confidentiality agreement, nothing⊠but then thatâs what Tv shows etc skip usually for story purposes.
From the moment the therapist said âI read the notes from your school counsellorâ I knew she was going to be terrible. Not so much from what she said, but the way she said it. Her body language and vocal tone came off as one of those former âMean Girlsâ in High School. As the therapy session continued, the more I saw that High School Mean Girl persona come out.
At first it felt like she was infantilising Wednesday a little by speaking to her like an adult might speak to a 6 year old, and not the teenager she is. Then when Wednesday used the word âadversaryâ the therapist had that âclutching pearlsâ demeanour to her. Was almost like the old fable. I forget the name of⊠- âlet me help youâ said the monkey to the fish as he places the fish in the tree.
It was from the word âadversaryâ it seemed like the therapist needed some therapy of her own because it became a power play to her, and very personal. She seemed to be trying to dominate Wednesday by trying to make her feel less than human, different, unacceptable, weird etc just like a mean girl from High School would. My inner child felt uncomfortable for Wednesday and my inner teen and I wanted to save her. That said, Wednesday isnât the type of girl who would take offence at ânormiesâ having opinions of her. She also wouldnât be forced to change and assimilate to the ânormieâ way of being, nor should she be made to feel as though she has to change and assimilate - that kill or be killed instinct can apply to kill someone elseâs personality or have your personality killed when applied to bullying tactics.
Side note: Itâs interesting that as a therapist she was taking this approach and not meeting Wednesday as who she actually is but more how she [the therapist] wants Wednesday to be. It was like she wanted Wednesday to be a ânormieâ not who she was. This might be my own autistic experience as lens here but thatâs how it feels when allistic neurotypical people want autistic people to behave, think, and experience the world like they do when we canât. ABA therapy is abuse in that way and very different from the healthier interventions that work with the autistic as they are to help them cope in a world not built for them. Itâs that kinda attitude in a therapist that makes me think about colonialism too, how the colonisers wanted to strip away everything that made Indigenous, & African people they enslaved who they really were and replace it by forcing them to assimilate to their ways. And we see this referenced in Wednesdayâs understanding several times. Not just in this series but also throughout Wednesday as a character in the movies like Addams Family Values etc. So to me the therapist is giving very much a coloniser attitude in her Mean Girl from High School attitudes and behaviours.
Back to the session, when the therapist was noting Wednesdayâs story of Viper and her mother Dominica⊠it felt like she wasnât my getting anywhere with Wednesday and in frustration she weaponised Wednesdayâs stories - imagining myself in Wednesdayâs position, the therapists tone and body language felt like a stab to the heart and a twisting of the knife when sheâs implying that she is viper and her mother is Dominica. It felt like being exposed and wounded, and having her own works being the weapon wielded by someone else itâs no wonder Wednesday got up and escaped using the bathroom.
Loved this video, Georgia! Your takes on it are so accurate as always. I would be happy to have you as a therapist any day. Also love what you said about the room set up and how it was more obvious to the client where they sit with the tissues there. I noticed that it was a chaise long (not sure how to correctly spell that word) that Wednesday sat on and thatâs usually the stereotype that people hole of going to therapy - the client lays down and talks - so itâs more assumed that would be the chair for a client to go to. And I love the fact that as a therapist you consider the clients needs like taking a walk or sitting in nature to hold a session. Iâd love for that to be an option in the UK where I live. But therapists here are very⊠traditional.
hehe thanks so much
"it felt like she wasn't getting anywhere with Wednesday and in frustration she weaponised Wednesday's stories"
Really? Is that how you saw it? I just saw it as a different but still valid approach. Similar to how people use roleplaying games like D&D to look at parallels between themselves and their characters and see how the character's growth can influence their own. She may have gone about it in a less than ideal manner, but the tactic itself I don't think is weaponisation.
Now to be fair, considering that she couldn't get the books published, it may have been a breach of privacy to read them even though they were sent to her. That I understand. But I can also see from the point of view of wanting to be prepared for your client, knowing what to expect in a sense. I also feel like, especially in the case of people who are generally ostracised, I could see some of those people benefitting from having someone want to talk to them about things that make them "weird" to others. A bit like "Oh you're interested in my work/my thoughts? No one has ever cared to find those out before". And lots of people are more receptive or open as soon as the topic deviates from them to the things they love, like their creative outlet for example.
(I apologize if at any point during this I come off as belittling or condescending as that was not my intention. I wish you a wonderful day.)
@@chronosclaimsall You can be prepared without smacking the patient over the head by announcing that you have read them.
I love the idea of this episode; how you analyse Wednesday and psychotherapist - awesome đ makes you look at it from totally different angle đ perfect dress up - as always đ
Glad you enjoy it! thanks
12:57 I loved that detail in Wednesday's face. It's not only the mouth, but also it is the very first time that we get to see Wednesday blink in the series.
Never noticed
I went to therapy when i was having an anxiety attack. I donât remember that session much mostly me crying. And the second session we sit in silence. Idk if she want me to start talking first or what but it was uncomfortable especially i came here for my social anxiety and when i told stuff she pretty much judged me. So im trying to figure out things by myself now.
Wednesdayâs therapist remind me of her
I quit therapy because I had a therapist that did a lot of these things. I love how you explain how it should have been. You vocalized a lot of my thoughts.
I'm glad you brought up dark art and how it can be very healthy for people to make it. I tend to make art that people may find dark or even gross or cringe, and I like to say that it's "free therapy."
We're so happy we chose to go to therapy alone as a 11 years old, our therapist is so nice and being in therapy for years makes me (and everyone in the collective) analyze these sessions better. Your videos help us too :)
I've never been to a therapist, but I did have to go see a school guidance counselor because of a family death. I didn't feel like it was any of her business to be asking me questions on my home life, when it wasn't affecting myself, my relationships, or my school work.
On a different note, I really enjoy your videos and your analyst's. Please keep doing what your doing.