What If Rhaenys Killed The Greens?
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- čas přidán 25. 12. 2023
- I'm sure we've all wondered what would have happened if Rhaenys said the magic word in episode 9. Would the conflict have ended or would something new have been born? Here's my take.
#breakdown #characteranalysis #explained #film #asoiaf #hotd #whatif #houseofthedragon #teamblack #teamgreen - Zábava
Only after I got done with this video did I realize I made a huge mistake. If Rhaenys killed the greens she wouldn’t have just killed Otto, Criston Cole, Alicent and her children but she also would have killed the entire green council as well who I forgot was also there during Aegons coronation. So for the sake of the story I came up with let’s just pretend they aren’t there so things make more sense when I use some them😅.
There is no war in Ba Sing Se.
And the high Septon. The south’s faith leader.
She wouldn’t have killed all the children. Daeron is on OldTown and Aegon/Helana’s children aren’t at the Dragon Pit. Think they’re at the Red Keep.
Yeah I was pretty sure I saw Larys there so I assume the remaining small council was too… rip lord beesbury
Oh dang I should’ve watched it thru before commenting… you actually did a still of Larys on the stage of the dragon pit lol
@fireandblood2919
As if Daemon would let them live? He's murderous, Kinslayer with no shame. They'd be assassinated, cause they have higher claims than Rhaenyra
Scenario 3 Dearon goes on exile and takes the name Bluefire. Generations of Bluefires terrorize the Targaryens in a series of bloody wars called the Bluefire Rebellions for many decades to come.
A possible scenario, really.
Like this idea
A Rhaenys kill the Greens AU where Daeron, Jaehaerys, Jaehaera, Maelor, and their dragons all flee in hiding to Essos for 2 or so decades and Daeron becomes this bitter, angry, and vengeful man who uses Jaehaerys claim as a means to finally get revenge for his family. Throw in some secret westeros alliance building and sellsword contracting in there as well.
Maybe you can even say some green agents managed to retrieve the conquerors crown and sword in the immediate aftermath of the murder and Daeron wields Blackfyre in honor of his brother.
So the Blackfyre Rebellions.
No chance. Tessarion, Shrykos and Morghul would still be way too small. The blacks would have Vhagar, Vermithor, Silverwing, Dreamfyre, Meleys, Caraxes, Syrax, Seasmoke, Vermax, Arrax, Tyraxes, Moondancer, Morning and all 3 wild dragons against the green 3 tiny dragons. 0% chance of a rebellion to take seriously.
The Bluefire Rebellion
Killing them (Viserys wife and children) wouldn’t have prevented a war at all. Not sure why people think killing them would’ve paved the way for a peaceful succession for Rhaenyra. Daeron still lives and Aegons children still live too.
The scale of the war would’ve been way smaller 100% and the dragons would’ve survived
You understand that if she killed Alicent and her children that it wouldn’t end there right? The kids would either become wards or die and Daeron would probably be killed had he tried anything
Without Vhagar, Sunfyre, or Dreamfyre, and with the only green targaryens too young to have any useful dragons, what kind of war would that even be?
@@rainbow_doglover8301 Rhaenyra had five dragons with her in KIng Landing and she allowed all five to get slaughtered by the small folk. The greens are already outnumbered 13 to their 4.Having more dragons in this world doesn’t guarantee you will prevent or even win a war.
@@rainbow_doglover8301 A bunch of pirates were giving two dragons and the Velayron fleet a war in the Step Stones for Years! Aegon had three dragons and six conquered kingdoms when he got his ass kicked by Dorne. The Blacks already outnumber the Greens 13/4 and we book readers know how that ends.
How well-chained were the dragonpit dragons? If Aegon and Helaena were killed in such close proximity to them, I can see Sunfyre and Dreamfyre storming out to attack Melys IMMEDIATELY, not to mention Vhagar wherever she is parked outside the city. I think it makes the most sense that Rhaenys had to retreat to Dragonstone because she was CHASED out of the Dragonpit by the mourning dragons. Luckily, Melys is the fastest dragon. I don't think Daemon and Rhaenys' return to King's Landing would be peaceful; I think there would be three powerful, riderless dragons rioting. I see a battle between Melys + Caraxes and Dreamfyre, Sunfyre, and Vhagar. Of the three riderless dragons, I think only Dreamfyre might surrender without being killed.
Sunfyre probably could not break free on his own probably not Dreamfyre either given that Dreamfyre was only able to break free after the Dragonpit had been burning for a long time and still died trying to escape... Regardless I think that Meleys could easily outspeed any of the three back to Dragonstone
Dreamfyre wasn't even a fighter dragon, well she is a dragon but in the books she's a mother dragon cuz she's always randomly lays clutches of eggs
It really would depend on the timeframe. I'm not sure that they would be fighting these other dragons without being set upon them. They're grieving, but that doesn't mean they'll stick around - many grieving dragons fly away at least for a time.
They won’t fight Dragons with riders without having riders themselves
The thought of most of the Greens being dead and Vhagar being free for Rhaena to claim brings me such joy even if it's only in my imagination.
If the greens were exterminated right then and there. Rt and Daemon would still look down upon by the rest of Westeros and be seen as the next Maegor. To me Daemon would wipe out or neutralize old town n Aegon kids would be kept hostage by Rhaenyra to prevent Daeron from pushes towards violence. As soon as Daeron is neutralized I doubt Daemon would let him live or Aegons kids.....
Not to mention if Daemon doesnt see Jace or Luke step up he will place his own kids on the iron throne and kill Jace, Luke, and Joffrey.
Daemon isn’t going to kill his wife’s kids, he’s violent not evil
@@RandomMackem3247 he ambushed n killed his first wife lol threatens that wife family, threatens to take that family land 😂 groomed Rt n ruined her reputation lol of course he is evil
That is an incredibly lazy character analysis. Daemon, of course, is not innocent. But still, he is shown to be a character that mostly values valyrian traditions (in ep1 he gifts nyra a valyrian steel necklace. He could have gifted her literally any jewelry but he chose this, it is very telling. In ep4, he asks for rhaenyra's hand in marriage, but not only any quick wedding to come in power but a valyrian wedding and says that they will bring the house of the dragon to its proper glory.) The point is, he values the valyrian and targaryen supremacy and why would he want to kill Targaryen children with dragons. It would make more sense for his character to kill whoever supported jahaerys' and maelor's claims (not that they really have any).
About Nyra's boys, that does not make sense either. Daemon raised those boys, and was involved in their education. We see Jace going in, confident enough to go to him and challenge him in episode 10. So your point does not stand
@@anagirbau3301 yes Daemon does value tradition the same as Oto but both characters hide behind the traditions to seek a greater glory of power. Daemon wanted to marry Rhaenyra because he wanted to be King and if he can get with his niece that he groomed and molded then thats a win win.
He literally put his hands on his wife the HEIR THE QUEEN because they had a difference of opinions. Do u honestly believe he wont hurt Jace, Luke, Joffrey if they dared challenge him? If any of Rt kids saw what Daemon did in that minute to their mother they would have gotten involved n the trust would be broken.
Let me ask u a question would Daemon still marry Rhaenyra if she wasnt the heir for the iron throne? N do u believe he wouldnt start a war to get his blood on the throne if Aegon was named heir?
Daemon would absolutely kill any potential threat to his family and would definitely kill kids if they were a threat later on to his bloodline.
@@jjosifovic he would have wanted to marry her regardless bc he wants a valyrian wife and he liked her, simple as that. And no, he would not have killed jace, luke and joff for a simple reason (besides raising them and acting like a father figure): they are targaryens. Daemon believes in Targaryen supremacy and we are shown in ep6 his inner turmoil about his identity. Making him out to be this cartoonish villian is stupid, especially by the show writers. If we are thinking logically about this, and let's imagine for a moment that your point stands: why didn't he get rid of jace, luke and joff while they were younger w little dragons? Why did he wait so long? It does not make sense. Also, back to episode 10, we are seeing Daemon acknowledging Jace as heir to the iron throne. About the choking scene, i am not excusing it and it was bad writing, but i can understand his point. People often forget that he was grieving too, he lost his brother, the last family he had from childhood and then lost his daughter. He was angry and wanted everyone dead. We can see in the scene that Rhaenyra was trying to talk him down out of his fit of rage but he was having none of it, he was furious that Rhaenyra was just like his brother, peaceful and lacking backbone to go all in. Should he have choked her? No, ofc not, it is bad but I can understand his point.
Daron is the only character who actually deserves to be king 👑 in the books
Love how Jace shines here. Still my favorite honorary Velaryon. But I love bastards
Rhaenys had no other exit from the pit!!! So many people think there’s another entrance/exit but it’s shown in ep 6 and even GoT Se7ep7 that the dragons are kept below the structure… perhaps if the boards were shown covering the staircase may have helped for some
seems like either a headcannon on your part or a bad design on the buildings part and didn't Rhaenyra in episode 1 enter from another entrance outside, where the dragon keepers took her dragon?
I mean Rhaenys would have probably died but there was another way out. Rhaenyra and Daemon both used the back entrance in episode 1. Not only that but the concept art shows a back entrance.
Even in canon the dragonpit had back entrances to every dragons enclosure. It’s how Tyraxes died. He burned so many bodies during the storming of the dragonpit that nobody could enter from the front. All the bodies piled up and blocked the doorway. Instead they entered from the back which made him freak out and he tangled himself in chains, making it easier for them to butcher him.
@@joshuaadams6565 I didn’t ask to be potentially spoiled 🤦♂️
I’m only going off what the show has presented, the books very unreliable source. I’m not going to repeat how the look of buildings can change over many years, guess just go with whatever you want to believe
Episode one they showed us a back exit 🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️
@ccronk The underlying issue with Rhaenys's actions was that she consigned herself to mass murdering countless smallfolk to escape the Dragonpit with Meleys, but couldn't just go ahead and torch the people knowingly provoking a civil war that would tear the continent in two. For all the talk that Rhaenys would have been a far better ruler than Viserys, she demonstrated in two distinct ways a pretty clear disregard for the lives of the people of the Seven Kingdoms at the Dragonpit.
You should honestly fo more “what ifs” like if viserys made aegon his heir or if rhaenys became queen
Rhaenys would have been a magnificent Queen with Corlys at her side. Power Couple!
I think Laenor and Rhaenyra would still marry to keep the bloodline pure. Laenor would still be gay and Rhaenyra would probably still have bastards. So the throne would pass to Rhaenyras bastards
When its part two comming?
People who think Daemon was right in wanting them dead clearly are as stupid as him. Daemon doesn't understand Politics at all, and if Rhaenys did what he wanted, their rule would've been tumultuous consistently.
She also would've been made a Kinslayer half a dozen times over, not a good look at all. Even Corlys would've told her how bad an idea that was.
The Blacks wouldn't have waltzed into power with no issue after they murdered;
The Queen
The Hand of the King
The Lord Commander of the Kingsguard (and other Kingsguard)
A Prince and a Princess of House Targaryen
A Septon of the Faith
So... yeah, terrible idea. Daeron would 100% definitely want the Blacks to pay, and the 3 kids of Aegon II also get support (Maelor was around in the books by the time this stuff happens so, maybe he is in the show, just not yet shown). Even with the largest Dragon alive, Maegor had a rough time with so many lords rebelling, so the Blacks having so many Lords they'll have to answer for.
Oh, and burning Oldtown is a TERRIBLE idea, and its wild how Aegon the Conqueror saw Oldtown and the Hightowers as great assets to the realm and allies to have, yet here we have Daemon who just thinks the most well off city in Westeros is... just another town to burn? Lmao yeah, go ahead Daemon, cripple that part of Westeros and we shall see what happens
(Not to mention, the Green Council being gone definitely means all the inner workings of Westeros and the past 6 years of the info they've gone through is gone now... so the Black's need to catch up with greater Westeros, which they've ignored for some time)
I enjoyed this video a lot. I died laughing when I started going thru the comments 30 mins in that pointed out that Larys would’ve also been killed in dragon fire in the beginning which makes this entire video null and void but I still enjoyed it 😂😂😂😂
For the sake of going along with the alternate storyline I just imagined Larys got away somehow in the confusion after Melys broke through the floor, which is entirely plausible given his slinkiness.
As long as Rhaenys made absolutely certain they were all dead, dead, dead. Then it would have dramatically reduced the impact of the war battles. And the dragons would be alive so really that would be a massive benefit.
Yeah ! No , Westeros wouldn't allow a woman to rule them ! The war stopped after Rhaenyra's son was crowned ! If she had only daughters , war would have continued !
@@Savage-nv6wr No because who would be there to oppose her if all the Greens were dead. Their dragons riderless. They might not have loved having a Queen but they’re not going to war against a Queen with a Daemon and dragons with no dragons of their own to fight with. Any lingering opponents could just be roasted. 🔥
This was the best video you've ever done I thoroughly enjoyed this thank you I can't wait to see the part 2
I prefer to say she was passed over not for being a woman but because Baelon had already been named the official heir, placing his line above her in the line of succession. That way Rhaenyra is still ahead of Aegon II.
I also hold that the Widow's Law forbid Viserys from disinheriting any child of his first marriage to let a child of his second marriage inherit, but that Aemon and Baelon having the same mother means there was nothing stopping Jaehaerys from disinheriting Aemon's line in favor of Baelon.
They would be forced to rule like meagor. Killing the greens would also cause a mass rebbelion inside the city and out aswell since the greens were loved by the people of king landing because they actually lived there. So yes theyvwould win but in time the people of kingslanding and the realm would hunt and kill all the dragon, it would be like crab feeder x100 a great war that would encompass the whole realm. Dorn and all the lords would rise up against theyre tyrant and kill the dragons woth scorpions which would be mass produced by dorn, in time all the blacks would die and i would guess that the kingdoms would become idependent once more since the targs are all dead
I'm sorry but there's absolutely no way daemon is letting Daeron live at all, no matter what rhaenyra says it's absolutely impossible for him not to just go ahead and kill Daeron especially seeing as rhaenys was barely punished in your scenario. Hell he'd probably rally people to his side and there'd become a faction solely opposed to letting the green twins live. The mere fact Daeron even stays in oldtown would be seen as an insult to daemon as that's literally the seat of green power and is sort of a cassus belli in daemons eye. Also realistically rhaenyra would instantly call for all lords to come bend the knee to her and her heirs which that alone is bound to either start or end the war depending on if green supporters choose to bend the knee.
I agree 100%
Ok man, so here’s the thing, I didn’t even pick this video. I was cooking and watching another of your what if videos when this one turned on, and BRO! I absolutely loved it. I loved all the avenues you went. This might be the best what if video
Rhaenys I believe would only kill the greens to protect her granddaughters. I thought it was so wild that they had this in the show how she almost had the chance to kill them. I was like wait are they gonna end it all here.
Hey keep doing these alternative/ what if theories.
Intriguing. Looking forward to part 2.
I guess you could say she was bitter but I think that'd be wrong. She was the only one that knew exactly what would happen while everyone else was blinded by whatever was their prize. What do you call the person thats always right, do you really call her bitter?? (Don't say "my wife")
How would any of the silent 5 claim dragons if they can't even talk anymore? Kinda difficult to yell "dracarys" if you can 't speak, let alone the commands needed to keep a new dragon from burnning you on sight. Regardless of any Targaryen blood in them, i really can't see mutes being able to claim dragons. I know they can basically communicate emotionally without verbal commands, but that's only after they've already been claimed and have a bond. Right? Someone please correct me if im wrong.
You are right! The only one we see w a bond beyond words with his dragon is Daemon. His connection to Caraxes is heartwarming. Ofc we have Rhaenys and Meleys too but she still made some moves suggesting what she should do.
Please do more what if’s
My babies 😭
I love Aemond and Helaena too much to be okay with their deaths
hopefully theres a part 2😍
This is all on the assumption that Larys is a Greens loyalist which he is, he's an opportunist and he's no Little Finger purposefully tryna create chaos. The book shows us as much
This was great 🎉
Can you make a part 2
bro Daeron's grandfather is Baelon the brave, he isn't Viserys grandson. His grandfather died nearly 60 years before smh
Baelon died 29 years before the dance and Jaehearys died 27 years before the dance
Pretty sure her counsel would've had Daeron and Aegon's twins killed one way or another.
How much do you believe in the Meister Conspiracy? Because if you assume that is a thing, I am sure there are other ways they could make a dragon civil war happen.
For example, do you think Daemon would be okay with having his bastard nephew Jace inherit after Rhyneara instead of his own trueborn child with her, Aegon the younger? Heck, you could argue that Daemon naming his son by Rhyneara Aegon is a declaration of intent. Same with Alicent naming her son Aegon.
That comment that rhaeneys made just gave me an idea 😊
What if Viserys never produced any sons Alicent just all girls?
Scenario 3: The Bluefire Rebellion
I think Deamon is right to kill Daeron because of the reasons you listed but I think it a stupid idea to kill the kids as well because unlike Daeron they probably wont even remember there parents there way to young, also I thought seen Rhaenyra lost her daughter she would take them in and rise them as her own because she a mother that lost a child and there kids that lost there mother it works doesnt it.
Also I Deamon would go alsong with it because he never like Otte so better way to insult Otte than riseing his great grandchildren in his image.
What if viserays let daemon marry rhaenyra instead of Lenore valareyon
Just thought of a what if . What if one of Rhaenyras sons by harwin is actually legitimate as fathered by Laenor.
Si esto hubiera pasado, yo creo que la guerra acababa en ese momento, Jaehaerys y Jaehaera eran simples niños tremendamente fáciles de remodelar y/o manipular, aunque no sin alguna dificultad, y Daeron por si solo no habría podido ganar una guerra, digo son un dragón contra siete, e incluso obteniendo algunos más a través de los Velaryon, todavía estaría en una inmensa desventaja con el Norte, el Valle, las Tierras de la Corona e incluso las Tierras de la Tormenta apoyando a Rhaenyra, al no haber propuesta de matrimonio entre Aemond y una hija de Borros.
Aparte, como tu bien notas, obvias que Larys y Tyland también habrían muerto si Rhaenys decía esas palabras, definitivamente no habría habido Danza de los Dragones aquí, aunque quizás si habría habido algún tipo de guerra, pero mucho menos devastadora y más fácil para los Negros/Targaryen, que probablemente solo hubieran enfrentado una alianza Daeron-Hightower-Lannister, casas poderosas esas dos, pero aún fáciles de vencer para siete dragones, o incluso más.
Part 2 pls great scenario
I don't hate the greens but they were usupers as Rhaenyra was the heir.
Even if Jace was a bastard.
Doing a darcarys would stop the war. You only would have Daeron with Tesarion in Old Town. So war would be over soon, and the dragons wouldn't died out.
Also Rhaenys is a mass-murder.
This scene I hate very much. I wanted the damn book scene. Whit Aegon, Refusing the crown frist, but fear of death of his childeren and siblings ans mother, sways him.
Then the crowning of him and Heleana flying in to be crowend. Criston crowing Aegon and Alicent Crowning her daughter.
Far better, and it wouldn't make Rhaenys look like a idot. But female impowernent.
Where is part 2
I love it!
Thank God she was never queen. Probably would just let the enemies go
Even in a "What if...," Rhaenyra is weak
I just caught it but Daemon says they have 3 dragons by his count. Which means the show never meant to have Daeron
He said three “adult” dragons, so Daeron is with a dragonling… they did include him in the intro bloodline, maybe he’s Cole’s bastard son instead so they sent him off to Oldtown as a baby so questions wouldn’t be asked about the colour of his hair?🤔🤪
He says at the end "Dragonstone has 13 to their 4" so he just didn't include Tessarion as the "three adult dragons"
@@RedMeleysMaybe he was referring to Morgoth, Jahaerys's dragon (he's the size of Drogon in season 2)
@@Teddy-zr8yv Morghul and Shrykos. So he’d actually mean 5 if he was talking about them.
He said 4 because they have 4 dragons and 2 hatchings.
@@ccronkhe wouldn't be able to ride a dragon if he weren't a targaryen, and why would the royal family give a dragon to bastard, be for real 🙄🙄🙄
your what if is off without context lannister would never ally with greyjoys, They casterly rock more than anywhere else
Such a stupid made for Twitter tv moment. It was a bad decision to write this scene, I hated it
Daeron is smart I think he would have figured out a way to stop the blacks or die trying possibly have kids too before then and it’s possible he could also sneak into dragons stone to steal the dragon eggs with the help of larys strongs and also old town is also one the wealthiest family and kingdom too so they probably could buy alliances and daeron is the most beloved Targaryen during this time so I think most of the seven would fight for him instead of the blacks and daeron can also find someone to claim the wild dragons so he can steal win this war and claim iron throne
MORE MORE MORE
definitely season 8. why!? just why!? what was the point of that!? just to take a good moment away from the greens, where aegon circles kingslanding on sunfyre 3 times just like jaehaerys did? he even named his twins after jaehaerys, he wanted to be like him. the greens were the good guys!!!!! fuq u ryan!!!
She couldn't because it's one of the many fan fiction scenes in HotD.....Rhaenys is not in Kings Landing at that time in the canon....
If she did, there would be no good guys left 😢
For a moment I thought that Jaecerys, Baela, Aegon and Viserys would die, I was gonna cry
Dew it
not gonna watch the video but i must say What if the writing was good and they stayed true to the books but boss girl stuff if she would have ended them no big war daeron had one small dragon aegon kids was just kids with small dragons they never rode it would have been over and we saw back exits in episode one🤦🏽♂️
The writing is good, the author of the books has more to do with the show, so your complaining about his entire series
@@RandomMackem3247 that doesn’t mean good writing just because he involved doesn’t mean he make all the decisions
some of it is good writing but episode 9 wasn’t at all especially what Rhaenys did it didn’t happen in the books only reason they did it was because it would look cool that’s what they said I swear and to make Rhaenys look like a boss girl and to completely step on the greens in favor of team black
Why didn’t she use the back exit why didn’t the rumble fall on her head why was it so easy to break it was built to hold dragons pointless if they can easily break it what was the dragon standing on it broke the floor why couldn’t they stay true the the books why didn’t she kill them because alicent of mother she just killed people whole family kinslaying? But not mass murder she could have easily ended the war where was the square rubies in aegon crown why didn’t alicent crown halaena like in the books where was cole speech? Why wasn’t her dragon protected from people getting to it that’s would be number one thing to do why was it so easy to even get to the dragons?? I could probably go on and on
Episode 9 was filled with bad writing a goose chase like come on and in the books Aegon demanded to be crowned not in the show
Rhaenyra and Rhaenys claiming they were to robbed doesn't make sense , their fathers were chosen Kings because they were the eldest male , Aemon Targaryen had 2 older sisters !
Aemon had 1 older sister Daenerys and she died qhen she was 7, Alyssane had two kids before Aemon, Aegon who died as an infant and Daenerys.
Jaehaerys was also chosen over his older sister Rhaena.
I mean it doesn't happen in yhe book soaybe thats why she doesn't and bad show
I really hated this scene ngl it was pretty obvious that she was team black because of her grandkids engagement to jace and luke. I get kinslaying is a sin but the greens just usurped the throne she should’ve killed them. It reminded me of S7&8 writing where action comes before the plot. Also they robbed aegon and helaena of a great moment flying sunfire and dreamfire around kings landing and then aegon sitting the throne.
I wish she did but the story wouldn't have been as good
Melys, syrax, caraxes would easily defeat tessarion. And the remaining council and aegon's small children have a claim i don't see anyone backing them against 3 grown dragons. Unless all major lords view Rhaenyra's faction as the new Maegor, stealing the thrown with murder, could they really do much against 3 adult black dragons with riders.
The pit blow up only happens in the show and Daeron doesn’t exist in the show. Sorry but that throws it out of wack
He does exist. He’s squiring in OldTown and will be in Season 2
I don’t know how nobody says this but .
We all know these regard their dragons lives more important then most humans. Especially small folk. So the only way to get her dragon out alive is by doing what she did but burning the greens was a choice. She had to kill the small folk to get her dragon out, it wasn’t a must to kill the greens so she chose not to
No there is another exit and entrance in the Dragon Pit. We see it in the first scene of the first episode. She didn’t have to leave via “smash the smallfolk.”