What If Jon Arryn Sacrificed Ned Stark & Robert Baratheon? (A Song of Ice and Fire)
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- čas přidán 4. 02. 2024
- Lord Jon of house Arryn was the foster Eddard and King Robert in the Vale
from a young age to manhood. In 281 AC, the Mad King Aerys Targaryen
commanded their heads be sent to him.
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Still looking into the youtube glitch from yesterday afternoon. This video went live with audio from the video linked in the endscreen. Insane considering the file was fine.
for the first minute of that video I thought I was going crazy
@@FrostbiteRepsame
@@whycreateyeah I thought I saw this yesterday on my recommendation list. Keep up the good work by the way
I thought it was just a super long intro about the context of ASOIAF. I was wondering when you’d get to Arryn 😂
Pro why just why lol
“What is the life of two orphan boys against a kingdom?”
“Everything.”
Especially since they're still orphan heirs to important seats
I love the Davos chapters. I’ve read the books so much, they were falling apart. Then I bought the audible versions and I listen to them every night to help me sleep.
@@YourGrace_06 That is very wise, YourGrace
It says something that even Ser Barristan questioned the morality of his actions during his rescue of the Mad King.
Barry called his best accomplishment but his worst moment
Why didn’t he doubt it when the usurper Robert drove the kingdom into huge debts or when he beat Cersei? Baristan the oathbreaker and traitor
4:40 I think it's helpful to understand Varys' motivations if the reader assumes the "Young Griff is a Blackfyre" theory is true... if YG is actually a Blackfyre by matrilineal descent, and Varys is working from the beginning to set up conditions for a Blackfyre invasion/revolution, then "Mad King Aerys" is the *perfect* candidate to have on the throne -- someone who will be *just* strong enough to keep his vassals in line, but NOT strong enough to command them decisively, someone who will breed resentment in his subjects and prime them for "conversion" to a "new" king, a "noble" king, a "man of the people"... a Blackfyre king
The Blackfyres are dead, the last one was a sick man with two heads. Young Griff Prince Aegon Targaryan
@@user-uf9lz5wz4n "the Blackfyres are dead" is only true if you think male-only primogeniture is the only way people can legally inherit titles [it is specifically only the male line that is confirmed dead], and the Targaryens themselves didn't believe that
“Robert would never be loyal” promptly runs off with a married man
It's different, he made her "feel special". 😂
@@michaeltrinh4394 she was lonely and he just made her feel so special! It’s really Robert’s fault anyway.
Lyanna loved Prince Rhaegar, but she despised Robert. Robert cheated on his wife Cersei and even beat her. He's a terrible husband
@@user-uf9lz5wz4n exactly everyone keeps focusing on the cheating part when it's obvious that wasn't the only reason she didn't want to be with Robert.
@@thatoneblackdude3333 But it is funny, that she ran from Robert with a justification, that he is a cheater, with a cheater.
It isn't so much we question her decision to leave Robert, it's more that we question his replacement. Cuz as attractive as Rhaegar probably was, that dude was a walking red flag and also an awful husband.
In this case, Benjen and Stannis rise up in rebellion, and have even more support after the horrendous murders of Eddard and Robert, both innocent of any crime and one is Aerys's kin thus making him a kinslayer, since Rhaelle was Aerys's aunt and she was Roberts grandmother, thus making Aerys his uncle.
With Hoster realising the marriage to a stark hinges on Benjen, he is much more decisive and it's likely the Reach stays out of the fight entirely, while the stormlands revolts at the murder of Robert, even if Rhaegar wins and Benjen lives, I'm sure the North and Benjen would hate Lyanna and Rhaegar after their actions got their liege lord, his heir, and second son killed and thousands of northmen, while the Arryn's would be punished severely for giving the two to Aerys, likely losing lord paramouncy altogether.
good to see asoiaf atill being kept alive, until George finishes Winds.
Varys manipulated, gaslit and lied to the mad king making his paranoia worse. Even encouraging his terrible ideas and delusions. Varys used this calculated chaos to make moves to his own advantage to benefit the realm. He was expert at playing the long game. He had the skill and cunning
Benefit the realm? He's a bloody blackfyre supporter in the book. Granted in the show he does work to benefit the realm albeit at the expense of said realm....
gaslighting is some stupid thing people just made up a few months ago so dumb
@@jamiewalker8493yeah it kind of looks a bit silly in the show but in the book it makes perfect sense.
@@stomper5432I’m really concerned if you think the term “gaslighting” was made up a few months ago. I think what you mean is that you feel more people are using that term unnecessarily or more often than usual :)
@@hi-ls6lt gas lighting was never a thing till recently
Thanks for re-uploading
wait this is old?
@@stomper5432 No, it was released a few hours ago but with a different audio. The audio was from his most recent video about grrm books, so he re-uploaded with the correct one
@@simbol5638 ooohhh gotcha
Interesting video but it’s hard to see a scenario where Jon Arryn does execute Ned and Robert. They were both like sons to him and his stronghold in the Vale is probably the most impregnable fortress in Westeros. Without dragons I doubt the Mad King could have taken the Vale especially with the north and Stormlands in rebellion too. So I doubt Aryyn was too worried about the Mad King’s threats.
You genuinely come up with the best GoT, HOTD, ASOIAF content. Thank you WhyCreate!
It will never make sense to me that Lyanna didn’t want to marry Robert because he was unfaithful. Then she runs off with a married man. Dafuq kind of logic is that
I will always think in the book she was still abducted or coerced. Show doesn’t make sense in that regard.
@@hi-ls6lt and we’ll probably never find out since it’s been 4592 days since his last book, and he’s not any closer to finishing it, nor healthy
Pretty dumb indeed
She was 14 when she met the 20 something rhaegar, 15 when she vanished and 16 when she died of childbirth. That doesn't seem romantic in any way possible and most likely coercion and manipulation was the way lyanna went with him. I mean she may be dumb, but she possibly could be THAT dumb enough to think that running away with the crown prince who's married to the princess of dorne and has two children while she herself is betrothed to another lord paramount would be a great idea
yall know that little girls loves knightly princes come to take them away and live happily ever after so look at this at 14 year old lyanna's perspective a real life prince come to take her away from a lustful 6'6 brute as robert is a dream come true for them
I gotta heavilly disagree on this one.
If Jon Arryn did that, then I'd wager that the Vale would decend into civil war, Ned and Robert had become friends with many Vale lords and heirs. Blood feuds would start with House Arryn against Houses Stark and Baratheon. There couldn't be peace here, he broke guests right. Not to mention that he had his nephew murdered also, no Valeman would respect Jon anymore, I'd say it's likely that Jon's other heir Ser Denys Arryn fights against Jon to try to claim the Vale and join the rebels.
Stannis also would've had to fight the war. Even with him being how he is, he couldn't lay down and accept his brother being murdered, along with the fact Robert committed no crime. None of his lords would've respected him at all. He would've fought against the Targs also, and House Arryn would've started a blood feud with House Baratheon. Also, since Stannis was already at Storm's End he'd be able to consolidate power faster and raise more men also.
While Benjen may be young, but he was around 14/15 the same age as Robb when he fought and Daeron I, Ned himself was only like 18. Benjen isn't gonna lay down and accept his father, and both elder brothers being murdered on the kings orders. House Stark and Arryn would once again have a blood feud with it. Benjen would have more time to raise men than Ned would.
Hoster Tully would also most likely side with the rebels also. Aerys had murdered Riverlander nobles also, Hoster would lose face with many of his bannermen if he didn't support them. So Catelyn would marry Benjen in this scenario.
As for the war, it might still end in victory. The Vale would be in Civil War, while the North would have more more men fielded, the Stormlands would also have more men fielded, also unlike Robert after Summerhall, Stannis most likely won't march into the Reach and instead most likely marches North directly to the Stoney Sept. So he won't lose troops at the Battle of Ashford. While he left Courtnay Penrose in charge of Storm's End.
Then at the Stoney Sept, Connington gets there but still gets beaten, by the arriving rebels and Stannis, however the rebels would've only fought more ruthlessly and wouldn't have allowed any Royal troops to escape.
From then on it depends on who prevails in the Vale or if the fighting is still occuring, but regardless if Jon Arryn prevailed, he wouldn't be able to aid in the fighting.
From that point on, it depends on who is better as a general. Hoster, Brynden, Stannis, Benjen or Rhaegar, and while the Rebels would most likely be more outnumbered, but they'd still have around 30k troops or so. So it is more than possible that they win on the Trident, and in this scenario Stannis becomes king and marries Cersei, while Rhaegar is most likely captured during the Trident.
-----------------------
Now, onto your descriptions of Rhaegar and his rule, it's just laughable. Rhaegar wasn't a uniter in any positive way, he united most of the realm against with his actions. He wouldn't be some popular ruler here, his actions caused the deaths multiple great lords and strong lesser houses. He wasn't in anyway "near-perfect" or "famously loveable" he was a fool, and you using him seducing Lyanna a 14/15 year old girl who upset at her betrothal match is insane to suggests he'd be a good ruler, especially when him doing that pissed most of the realm off. Especially when you say he'd prove them right by coming back North with Jon Snow and saying he's a Prince, polygamy isn't allowed and it just would've caused a war with the faith and drive more people over to the rebels. While he would've been forced to execute Jon Arryn for his murder of Ned and Robert if he wanted any hope of keeping the Baratheons/Starks somewhat loyal, and the same be for Aerys also.
Also, why would the North care about Rhaegar's bastard? He either graped him into Lyanna, or Lyanna was a harlot who ran of and abandoned her duties. Jon Snow would be more likely to end up dead on the way North instead of fixing anything.
Also, even if the Tully's stay neutral, and Stannis either gets beaten/can't fight/doesn't fight, then that just means that the North succeeds from the Iron Throne, and becomes independent and destroys any army the Targs tried to send North at Moat Cailin, he'd may even get the Ironborn to join him in his rebeliion.
The best case for Robert is a realm that was divided with a now independent North/Iron Isles possibly. While the realm he controlled was full of unrest, with most lords either angry at him, or not completely loyal to him.
That‘s a quite realistic perspective.
But maybe they would all have rebelled against Aerys and Jon Arryn. And then Rhegar can use this to take the power from his father. Then everyone one is happy except of Aerys and the probably dead Jon Arryn.
Perfect answer☑. Most people just assume that rhaegar would have been some great ruler lol. I can't see him be good ruler after the stunts he pulled.
@@durrangodsgrief_009I always think people are joking in real life when they suggest that but then I’m stunned when I realise they are being serious.
@@hi-ls6lt Exactly. Some fans genuinely like to believe that the man who gave fuel to the rebellion that ended his house would be a great ruler...by what means? They like to bring out so many excuses, 'he was in looove' ' he needed the ptwp' etc etc. Rhaegar was described as being a loner, and that even with close friends, no one knew his true nature. He spent his days roaming around summerhall with his harp, making songs and occasionally participating in tourneys. There's no indication of him being a great monarch other than the heavily biased words of barristan and Jon con. There was slight potential with gathering the tourney of harrenhal to overthrow aerys, but that turned into a disaster when he crowned the betrothed of a lord paramount after bypassing his heavily pregnant wife, offending everyone present 🙄
Thank you! I knew you'd upload it soon. Cant wait!
I’ve never understood why Lyanna says Robert would never be faithful to her but somehow she thinks Rhaegar, an already married man, would be? Can someone explain?😂
If I had to guess it just comes down to basic human bias and perception. Lyanna always loved Rheagar. That was made apparent in the flashback of Rheagar giving her the rose of beauty after a joust.
Where as she was never particularly fond of Robert. So she has a natural bias to ignore the fact that Rhaegar is married. There’s also the fact that Rhaegar portays himself as the knights of legend whereas Robert is openly an alcoholic, womanizer, and warmonger.
You should do more of what ifs it was actually pretty good
I don't believe The Mad King would've allow Rhaegar to take Lyanna and baby Jon to live in King's Landing, knowing Areys he probably would've freaked out and have Lyanna executed or at least locked up for "treason" and not recognize Jon as Rhaegar's legitimate son and have him kill or imprisoned too due to his northern heritage and would've started another Targaryen Civil War between Aerys and Rhaegar.
Why would he execute John? He can be sent to the night watch. There would be no Targaryen civil war
PLEASE MORE WHAT IFS FOR ASOIAF I’ve been dying for these types of videos and basically no one makes them
Finally watching a video of yours that isn’t years old
Thx algorithm
In the show thats supposed to be Ser Rodrik Cassel in the flashback, not Brandon Stark. The clues being that not only does he appear to be fulfilling the role of a master at arms but they gave him the sideburns to make it even more obvious
We cannot be sure Dany would exist as she was sired after Rhaegar died. Without long months of fighting and the Trident, the timeline would probably change and compress significantly. And Cersi and Jaime would not continue their relationship because Jaime would be in King's Landing, and Cersi would marry elsewhere and live there. And even if Rhaegar released Jaime from his vows, Tywin would marry him off too, so I cannot see how they would be together. Since Lannisters would still play the role of loyalists, I could see Rhaegar suggesting that Cersi marry Stannis to keep House Baratheon bound to their side by a marriage alliance. Which wouldn't be too bad for Tywin's plans too, especially if Jaime is freed to marry Lysa Tully as was intended. That leaves Cat to wait for Benjen Stark. If Hoster is fixed on getting Winterfell, or offered to Jaime instead- as she is the elder sister and now free. And the younger Lysa passed on to Benjen or to some other older lord - Hoster married her off to old Lord Arryn for a reason afterall.
It was before. Danys was conceived after Aerys burned Rockard Stark.
@Aaron_Guest I don't think so, Rickard was killed before the Rebellion which with calling the banners and all the battles took at least 9 months to a year. Jon was born at the end of the Rebellion and Dany 8-9 months later. Stannis had to rebuild the fleet in order to go to Dragonstone. Viserys and newborn Dany escaped him in the nick of time. So either Rhaella was pregnant for close to 2 years, or Dany was sired before the sack.
Thanks for the re-up lol that was a weird error.
“He’ll never be faithful to me…”
-Lyanna Stark
“Let me get raw dogged by the married Prince and abandon my father and brother to their deaths out of concern for me, then guilt my other brother to rear my bastard in shame… lol…”
-Also Lyanna Stark
Nice video.
It would definitely have been better for Westeros. But in the long run Rhegar might not have been that good of a king. He was so obsessed with prophecies and so on.
Yay! Love this🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤
Its a fun what if. I always wondered what would happen if Sansa caught Cersei and Jaime?
I thought it was weird that some of the kings guard was in Winterfeld and she wasn't fan girling over them. It would change everything.
Then Bran wouldn't have needed to be written in at all. Making the series easier for Grr Martin to write.
Quick fix
I'm still wondering why the hell would ANYONE come into their King's home with a host of hostile men, and then threaten and try to MURDER the King's child, their future King... without expecting their heads to be put to the chopping block⁉️⁉️⁉️🤣🤣
It was outside his home.
i have a question that been heavy on my mind if anyone have the answer please let me know.. so i get why Ned was a ward because he the second son but whywas Robert ? he the eldest son so why was he sent away
Lesgooo its normal!!
What if Lyanna Stark didn't die? That would be a great What if!
are you copying that other game of thrones youtuber with the "What If" Series? come on now your better then that.
@1:48 that isn't Brandon. That's a young Rodrik Cassel.
I agree it would’ve been better & the realm would’ve better better prepared for the long night under Rhaegar & Daenerys wouldn’t have went through ass she did. But would she still have been able to hatch dragons? & no stark kids & direwolves no Jon & ghost 😢 is kinda sad but I’m team Targ so I like this I’ll only really miss Arya & thank the gods there’s no joffery in this one as well
Book Varys is insane
I doubt that the Mad King remembered how Ned and Bobby looked like, so Jon could have sent the heads of two other recently executed men who resembled Ned and Bobby just enough to fool him. Whether or not Varys, who is very hard to fool if at all, would have uncovered the roose to the Mad King and how he would have reacted is anyone's guess.
Daenerys might not even have been conceived in this time line. Aerys burned one of his hands and whenever he burned someone, Rhaella would receive a visitor in the night. She was conceived a couple nights before the battle of the trident.
👍👍👍
Can someone please explain to me what leanna Shark's escorts was doing during the alleged kidnapping. There's no way she would have been traveling by herself.
Most likely they would've been killed.
The most positive outcome of this timeline would be Cersei without the crown.
And himself
WC!!!!!
I'm not usually one of those people but the AI thumbnail is fucking freaky, look at the guys in the back. And I think the sigil is wrong
Deute. 18:10-14,
Deute. 27:22,
Thats not Brandon stark you zoom in its ser Rodrik
Sweet Robin mama boy 😮would become 😂 king of Westeros that’s what.
Is the thumbnail AI generated?
Yeah, looks like it
It's sad that no matter the universe, Jon always gets raised by a step mom who resents him for the position he could usurp from their sons
👍🏾⭕️👌🏾
Maybe cersi and oberyn get married in this case
First
"Promo sm"
Whoh! Great video!! I’m gonna watch it a few more time just to make sure I soaked in all the details. The animation and presentation works really well too 🏄♂️🌊🪷