Honda CR250R 2 Stroke Top End Tear Down!! How Bad Was It?
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- čas přidán 15. 07. 2024
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In today’s video, we show you a little bit about the tear down of this 2 stroke Honda CR250R. As many of you know, this bike seized up the last time out riding it. Today, we get to see what happened and make a plan of action for getting it up and running again. Of course, I need to get this bike up and going as soon as possible since I plan on giving away to a lucky viewer in connection with the dirt bike sweepstakes I will be putting on starting March 1st and going through April 30th of 2019.
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Been working on bikes for over 40 years. Can't say I've ever warped head on a bike by not removing the bolts in a cross pattern gradually. Actually I never heard of that before.
I mean its kind of ridiculous but its a safety precaution so why not. Still not gonna do it because I would rather do it much faster
Connor Clark I learned it in my previous automotive life... you’re probably right about it being a non-issue but preventative practices are hard to lose.
See the streak below the exhaust port. That's where the problem is. That's a ring hanging up on the port ramp. Just got through going through the same thing on my 03 cr 250. It's all because of the exhaust bridge.
It may or may not cause issues to not reverse torque machined parts but a real professional will use these practices and as far as I am concerned if you are not doing this you are an amateur and you shouldn't be touching an engine.
@@Zach-ju5vi humm, what about all the ones that pulled a couple of studs lose in the jug and DIDN'T warp the head. Sounds like you have no experience and shouldn't be changing a spark plug.
Props to the tech for letting you stand over his shoulder. Must not be a flat rate guy...lol I am glad all the years I spent in the car dealership, nobody tried to film their frame replacement or head headgasket recalls.
Its that darn 100:1 amsoil sabre oil ratio that killed it. I ran amsoil dominator 32:1 in my 2001 Cr250 and it ripped. No smoke, no splooge, never fouled a plug and a top end would last 175 hours. Thats riding in deep florida sugar sand as well.
MrWalkerds no the piston was to big for the cylinder and the piston expanded faster than the cylinder could witch cause seizure
Looking at the piston top and the head, whatever he was using in whatever ratio sure burned clean. I didn't see any signs of detonation but the plug looked a bit more grey than what I am used to with non synthetic 2 smoke oil. Lots of people saying 100:1 in the comments. I think that is an awfully high ratio for a motocross bike. Trials guys would run that ratio but their piston speed is much much lower on average. I reckon amsoil has done all the testing to prove that ratio is capable and if Kyle truly was running that high a ratio, he has his reasons.
I only came up with the 32:1 ratio because its what the honda owners manual said. Amsoil says go with 50:1 with dominator but I had an inclination to go with my bikes manual rather then the back of the oil bottle.
Oil technology has changed and with the advent of pure synthetic oils, that ratio can be adjusted carefully. If you have an older bike, the manual states the ratio to use with their recommended oil which might still be caster or petroleum based. I myself don't stray much from that recommendation myself, still running 40:1 yamalube 2R with good service. I would be very leery of 100:1 since I ride more sustained high RPM stuff.
Ok I have a motor that I run in my mini sprint at 310 psi 76.58 269.95 cc on alcohol in a mini sprint Gran Castor 927 in my Pistons never look like his. At .045 squash. 20/1
I hate this happened but I’m glad your keeping us up to date on it. I sent a sleeved cylinder and new piston to US Chrome so they could match it, had no issues with it.
Almost learned this lesson too when I didn’t send my piston with my cylinder when it got replated. I have a 2011 yz250 and the cylinder got bored to a “A” piston and I put a “B” and luckily didn’t have anything happen except for some vertical discoloration streaks on the cylinder but were not scrapes or indents. If you look at the clearance difference it’s .01 difference. Bike has 40 hard hours on it and hasn’t skipped a beat. Send your piston when getting replated though.
My 03 cr250 still has the stock cylinder and it looks great, cross hatching looks perfect still. I cant even remember how many top ends I did but it has to have been close to a dozen. I've always put oem piston, rings, bearing, clips, and gaskets. 32:1 honda hp2. And with the kehin airstriker it runs crisp and clean.
same thing happened to my buddies gasgas. put a cylinder that was too big and seized. he did it himself, but good learning opportunity. looking to get a 2T soon so trying to learn as much as i can. thanks for putting these out
If your going to do these maintenance jobs yourself I suggest getting some decent measuring equipment.telescopic bore gauges,feeler gagues and a vernier caliper,I've even got micrometers but you can get away without them.all the specs are in the manual,these kinds of failures can easily be avoided
@@barra245t2 thanks man! appreciate it! definitely will once I get my 2 stroke. I normally would send it to a shop, but i just want to learn how to work on my own bike and just become a bit more knowledgeable
Another great video Kyle! Thanks 👌🏼
As I become smarter not just with this but with the understanding of mechanics and how people communicate in a shop and then come back to this video I understand more and more what’s going on entirely good video 👍
glad to see it running again and that it was a simple fix. simple, not cheap lol
Great vid! Do more "shop vids" with guest experts.
Nice video mate keep it up !
100:1 baby!
When you build an engine....you should always check you clearances... cylinder to wall,,end ring gap,valve etc etc etc...let this be a lesson Kyle....you never trust a place to do it right ...so you always check
When I was a kid racing 80's, I blew up my kx80 and it had identical damage to this. It was because I put the wrong fuel in it that wasn't mixed. Also had a cr125 I put the wrong size piston in and it blew up within 2 minutes after starting.
My ktm 200 after 260 hours we did a rebuild, we thought that it needed a b size piston, but the b was slightly too big so we went with the a size, I read about people going to the next letter every rebuild but surprisingly it needed the same piston it had before
holy crap! im surprised that got by Scott !! theres a tool that calculates all that...he musta been in a rush lol
Keep an eye out for a power valve if that ever goes out you could have trouble trying to find one like I did.
I just got my Gasgas cylinder replated and I had to bring in the exact piston that I was going to use with the cylinder. I assume it’s to prevent this from happening
Hope you guys do heat cycles on the new piston and cylinder so the expand evenly.
Removing heads on all motors needs to be done this way. On larger motors like out a car you go from outside in.
I know it’s probably not a necessary practice on these smaller cylinders but it’s hard to break old automotive habits. Better safe than sorry I say 👍🏼
That just sucks. I have never had that issue besides a race long ago when we forgot to shake the gas can after we added oil.
That sucks right after a nice rebuild. Looks like a cold seizure that got worse when you restarted the bike. Running at moderate pace, where the wind cools it, I doubt the water-cooled engine's iron liner expanded quickly enough for a drag race with a tight forged piston. Forged pistons need more clearance in iron liners and don't take on the cylinders shape like a cast piston can. Also the 40*F weather add power but requires a main jet bump or power jet dialed out to avoid dangerous lean-out and to cool it with more mixture at WFO. Was that with your 100-1 premix? Do some 2-stroke plug chops on a cold day and see how lean it can get.
grate vid]
In car motors we like .010 - .012 for a forged piston, and .08 for a cast piston
With that Milwaukee Fuel, you can dial down.. or UP. the drive pressure... love mine.. But typically use a hand tool when I am wanting to be delicate.. (no mared heads)...
Captain Sam Wilson there’s two settings - 1 & 2. I generally keep it on the higher setting and only use it to remove bolts. Love it!
Hi guys wanna ask a wee bit of advice use to do mx and mtb a few years ago had a cr125 but was in car bad accident broken shoulder and server whiplash and cracked ribs just now healed up minus the sore back, shoulder, and neck plus constant pins and needle in right arm took me a year to ride mtb again but only short periods of time before pain r my mx days done want to get back on the horse but don't know what bike to start again on am I best on getting a 2 stroke 85cc kx yz rm Sx cr whatever brand or a good high end pit bike to get comfortable on or go straight for a 125 2 Stroke cheers guys
This is functionally similar to a cold seize except the cylinder shrinks onto the piston instead of the piston expanding into the cylinder. It's from not warming up enough. Then when the thermostat opens up it dumps a bunch of cold water in the jacket around the cylinder while you're hot rodding it. Shrinking cylinder + expanding piston = oh shit
I own a 2002 CR250. By the KZ3W markings on the Rod I can see that you're running an OEM Crank, has it ever been rebuilt? Also I think a possibility is that whoever built your motor made a common mistake which is that with most bike and parts manufacturers size A is the smallest bore/piston with B and C sizes getting bigger. On last gen CR250's size A OEM cylinder/piston equates to a size B aftermarket piston/bore. Also if you were indeed running amsoil saber at 80-100 to 1 that would also be not great given that this is an MX bike. 40 to 1 is all I run in a 250 2t. 32:1 if a 200 or smaller.
Also, where did you find a new OEM 03 CR250 cylinder?
So did having a proper clearance on the cylinder change how it ran? More bottom and/or top end without so much friction?
Jeez this project bike cost just went up even more.
Hey Kyle, What if you got an old kdx 200 and compared it to a ktm 200 xc. Ive been riding my kdx for about 4 months now and I feel like it would be a better competitor than a mx bike
Why put a different piston in when plating was done for a specific one? All pistons come with specs including clearance tolerance.
You should be running Maxim 927 this will will not leave all the black deposits on your gum or your cylinder. Then 927 piston will still look clean. in that bike and you probably should have stuck with the Mikuni carburetor. I don't recommend using millennium to fix your cylinder. I recommend Tower Salina Pennsylvania way better job .
I've rebuilt over 30 CR250 Motors. That's who I've always sent my cylinders to.
My KX250 touch’s the crankcase when the head is off when I manually turn the crank, will this change when I put the cylinder back on?
Please explain to me why it took 10 hrs or so for this to happen. Seen happen back in the 80’s when bored out Cylinders went wrong but it didn’t take 10 hrs just minutes after start up. Have had 4 cr 250’s never have had any motor issues thank god ! Great channel!
Not an expert here but I assume the riding up to the time of the drag race was his usual lower speed technical riding. Break in riding, low piston speed, cool weather, and very little high rpm running, which were short bursts when they happened. The drag race was the first sustained high RPM action on that motor and it generated a lot of heat which caused the piston to expand.
Either he didn't warm up the engine properly before he run it or the clearance was just to tight for high RPM. A two stroke can run with tight clearances but you have to be careful how you treat the engine. Best to have sufficient clearance and you won't have to worry as much but you still should be warming up your engine before you ride it.
Got the brand new snap on dead blow
Who did you send your cylinder off to?
So it was your fault it seized . and we're supposed to listen to you ? Lol
@@jaybo3687 He's a beginner rider, guys. Go easy on him. He doesn't claim to be an expert rider, nor an expert mechanic. He is a youtuber who enjoys riding.
What mix ratio do you run in that bike
Hello. Could you please review a Kawasaki KLX250 2018 or 2019 bike. Cheapest Japan Dual Sport Road Legal bike as far as I know. Thanks!
My 2002 cr250r takes like 40+ kicks to start its horrible, I changed the spark plug and put in a lectron carb and that did nothing. Any ideas of what it might be? There’s no possible way It needs to be kicked any harder than what I’m kicking it and I’m even finding top dead center everytime
I want to know what the Piston to cylinder clearance actually was?
If the needle valve in that lektron came from China which is a cheap needle valve that would have caused the seizure on that bike. I recommend you to contact electron and get a brand new needle valve from them a $15 part.
Most replating shops require you to send in the new piston with the cylinder so they can size it correctly, if in fact they plated it to the wrong size and that it's definitely why it seized I would send it back and them you want it fixed for free new piston included! and oh ya run 32:1.....80-100:1 is for morons
Exactly
Name calling aside 32:1 is outdated newer synthetic oils are 50:1 and has worked flawlessly for me for many years.
@@robh3267 yep and 80:1 worked for years for dirt bike channel until it this happened, personally i prefer castor based oils over synthetics because i want maximum protection. And lets not get into this oh "but synthetics burn cleaner" i have been running castor for 33 years and have yet to have any excessive carbon or an engine seize or have any kind of oil related failure ever but i ride hard. This Excess carbon that people talk about with castor based oils only happens with overly rich jetting and/or slow riders and for that very reason i do recommend synthetic oils to new or slow riders that constantly lug the engine and never rev it out because they do burn cleaner in that specific scenario but for more aggressive riders you can not beat the protection of a castor based oil period. There is no one perfect oil or ratio for everybody you need to use the right oil and ratio for what your doing and we learned that 80:1 while doing a drag race in the desert is not it lmao
Seriously doubt it can be replated.
@@Bryan-Hensley usually what you see on the cylinder is aluminum from the Piston smeared onto the cylinder walls, if it wasn't for the Piston to cylinder clearance issue I would say try removing the smeared aluminum off the cylinder walls with acid, lots of times the cylinder walls themselves are actually undamaged underneath the smeared aluminum.
So who put the piston in? At my shop I send the piston we will be running to the cylinder chrome shop with the cylinder and than measure everything before install. I'm very surprised you got 10 hours out of it, must have been ridding iv very easy.
We (MotoXperts) did not do the initial rebuild. My understanding is that a mechanic friend of Kyle’s helped do the rebuild and they sent the cylinder to the re-plater and the piston was provided by someone else. Piston was a 66.35mm (B piston) and the cylinder as plated to 66.39 (.04mm piston - cylinder clearance). The spec clearance from Honda is .06mm.
The new Honda cylinder that I installed in this video measured 66.40mm and we installed a 66.34 piston so this top end should be perfect 👌🏼
lateral connecting rod movement is side to side?
I was joking about the oil mix being 100:1, but I will run 32:1 until I die
I always run 40:1, never let me down.
I run 40:1 i never have issues. Yamaha calls for 20:1 for break in and that seems way to rich, it spits oil out the exhaust and just makes a mess so I go 32:1 for the first tank on a new engine.
Use a feeler gauge and don't just check side to side check for defection yeah it's a thing look it up.
Kyle, it would be good to tell the oil ratio used just for us to know what is this low oil ratio we all suspect to be enough to still have a good oil film, as stated in the video. I am not doubting your explanation about the cause of the seizure. Just curious like everyone else here. I have often used Saber oil at 70:1 (staying on the safe side) and had no problem at all. Now I run Lucas oil at 50:1, and still no problem either. Same thing with Amsoil Dominator.
Couldn't you have figured this out when installation of new piston and checking ring end gap?
Not exactly. You can have the same ring gap on two different sized pistons using the same rings , because ring gap is mostly dependent on the cylinder size. Ring gap is checked using the cylinder.
@@Matismo88 bullshit. New wiseco piston comes with matching rings. If he checked ring end gap before installation it would have been too tight. Letting you know that your cylinder is too small for the piston due to replating
@@justindwyer3832 your right I have no idea what I'm talking about, I only build engines. I guess I also missed the huge warning that comes with a new wiseco piston telling you to check ring gap because it may need to be adjusted. Ring gap doesnt tell you the size of the piston or the size of your cylinder, it tells you your ring gap.
Dang, was it 0.10 or 0.25 too big? Dang that was a namura or wiseco wasn't it? It was he'll on the coating huh?
So how much extra clearance does the piston need to accommodate for the expansion?
Dodek72 on this bike it is .06mm. Less for 125s, more for larger displacement bikes. Always best to consult the manual. If you’re going to a forged piston like a CP or Wiseco you should follow piston manufacturer’s specs since forged pistons will expand at different rates compared to cast or hypereutectic pistons.
Wiseco puts the piston-to-wall clearance on the outside of the box
The skirt on my 250sx cracked and broke off and pretty much sabotaged the bottom end ._.
What oil? What ratio? What air fuel ratio? What piston?
Ring end gap. 0.16 - 0.18 on my YZ250 32:1
after a rechrome don't they supply the piston that needs to be used, that was my understanding.
Bigals. ktms. That is generally how it works. We ended up installing a brand new cylinder from Honda this time and spec’d a new piston accordingly. Millenium and PowerSeal both do great jobs of sizing pistons to the cylinders they replate.
This time around please use an oem piston will save you in the long run
alexei fedoroschuktait OEM pistons are no longer shipping for this model. We used a Pro X piston this time around.
My favorite customers are the ones that stand over my shoulder and film me while I work 😆😀
Patrick Darling right! Lol
Plus, Kyle smells very nice 👍🏼
Kevin Egbert lmfao! 😂
What is the correct piston to cylinder clearance for a nickel silicon carbide cylinder and what is the correct piston to cylinder clearance for a steel liner cylindered?
Gavin Barham best place to find that answer for a specific application is either your service manual or the re-plater you are using. Millenium and PowerSeal are both great companies to work with and they stand behind their work.
Loosen bolts carefully but then smacks with mallet?
Okay I've thought about this for a while I run the micro sprints since 2005 with the pwk 40.5 mm ESR carb on alcohol we have a high speed tube. We run these in 4th gear at 10000 RPMs on a dirt oval. You're running the electron with a metering rod and a high-speed tube. you're not allowing enough fuel in your high speed tube. Lack of fuel will burn a motor up. Besides the garbage oil that you're running.
It clearly shows you season the motor up from the lack of fuel oil. Call Eddie Sanders racing up in California. Or dby Motorsports in Pennsylvania and let him explain Wire season the motor up how you mean taking your exhaust side. It's from lack of fuel and oil.
Better yet look up Wes Hastings
On Facebook this man is a wizard in the 250 / 270 mine sprint
From the 90's
He has won a shit load of races over the 30 year as a driver, car owner or just motor builder.
He will tell you what is going on here
Did you use a Wiseco piston? and if so that was your problem you should have used a stock piston..
The piston that came out of it was a Vertex but the failure wasn’t fault of the manufacturer. A lesser quality piston would have likely cracked a skirt and dropped it into the bottom end. This was purely install error and not sizing the piston to the cylinder.
On this rebuild we used a Pro X piston.
Vertex is basically the same piston ktm uses as out of the box on every bike. It's a quality piston. I'm still wondering why you guys put a prox low quality piston wich is known to seize up more easily?
Hypixc where are you reading that the ProX pistons seize up more easily? We’ve had good luck with all popular piston manufacturers. Wiseco gets a bad reputation due to installer error in most cases. The forged pistons require greater cylinder to piston clearance than hypereutectic pistons.
@@kevinegbert1251 ProX parts are made pretty poorly, I have had so many cases where ProX pistons have seized up in the first 10-20h of riding. I'm not even kidding, about 10 friends of mine have gotten their engines seized up by them. Also their other parts like bearings and crankshafts usually break way before other brands like Vertex do.
Hypixc that’s really weird. What bikes have you had the failures with using ProX parts? We’ve never seen or used a ProX complete crank assembly (not aware they made them) but we’ve used the ProX rod assemblies and we haven’t experienced any related failures or had comebacks caused by them. If there was a major quality issue with the ProX pistons, wristpin bearings, rods, top end gaskets, valves, etc. I hope we would’ve been alerted to it.
I’m not saying you’re wrong at all! Just saying it’s weird. Have you had these failures recently or was this several years ago?
Where my Honda family at ?
What type of 2 cycle oil did you use and what was the mix ratio?
100:1
How many hours did you do on that fresh motor before she shit the bed
I think he said 12hrs
Also 1st like 😆
Twostrokes only need piston when they blow up usualy do
100:1? jesus.
Should have used a stock piston
just saw you had it replated and they were supposed to match the cylinder to the new piston.... after market piston was too big for the after market replated cylinder. I always try to stick with stock parts, may cost a little more but saves a lot of grief!! worth it to me for the peace of mind.
BC Offroad riding the stock pistons are no longer available but we did manage to find a new cylinder at a decent price and a Pro X piston with the correct sizing.
How bad is it? About $300.
I am reeeeaaaallllyyyu curious to know how much mony your generating from this channel and from the merchandise your selling that you can afford to do 2!!! Bike give away?? (If thats not too much of a personal question, also i absolutely dont mean this in a mean way or anything im just fascinated).
Geart job on the bike👍👏
Looks like dirt ingestion look at the intake
haven't finished your video just explaining what he thinks is wrong I bet broke the rod
Maybe, if people just used a little commonsense, they wouldn't have to keep saying the same thing over, and over again.
Try using your head.
Kyle runs the same gas to Amsoil oil mixture in all his bikes, but has no problems.
Many, many other people run the same gas to Amsoil oil mixture in their bikes and have no problems.
Could it be possible that when this motor was rebuilt the wrong size piston was used, and during the drag race the friction was more intense then just previous 10 hours of trail riding, and a failure that was bound to show up eventually, came to a head.
Or, do you think Kyle and his mechanic are lying, and for what reason?
And maybe everyone is lying that uses the recommended Amsoil ratio, and they keep scouring cylinders and keep using the same oil because it is their plan to get you to buy a product they make nothing, to very little off of.
I think people keep saying it because it is not brought up in the videos. I missed the part he asked the mechanic about the manual saying 30:1 ratio but I run 80:1 could that have contributed? An oversize piston would have definitely been a concern big time too. But those videos where his buddies are all testing the CR out you can't tell me none of them opened it up to see what it could do, I know I would. The channel is great and I enjoy the videos. premix ratios are always a controversial subject I just think this is a notch for the 30 to 40:1 on race bikes.
The problem is the exhaust port is catching a ring. Look at the deep streak at the exhaust port. I just went through the same thing.
Bryan Hensley both intake and exhaust sides of the piston were badly scuffed. The ring looks like it started to catch the exhaust port but that was really just a symptom of the oversized piston being installed in a standard sized cylinder. Always measure your piston to cylinder wall clearance and make sure if you run a forged piston that you’re following the piston manufacturer’s spec, not the service manual.
@@kevinegbert1251 the damages the ring causes pushes the piston against the cylinder on the opposite side and the ring itself is pushed hard into the opposite side. That's why it's worn more evenly. You can see the debris scratches on the intake side from the ring damage.
@@kevinegbert1251 if it was a clearance issue the scuffs would be around the wrist pin areas too..
All these 100:1 comments, do you people even watch the video before you comment?
My take away...
Wow, lasted pretty long for having the wrong slug in the jug.
Dude is using the incorrect bore gauges. Lol. They're supposed to be dome shaped.
So you're saying that your old mate, who charges God knows how much to build bikes, has put together an engine and not bothered to check the clearances?
second 2
moto kid and you didnt like the video too😀
@@soulguitarist-ms4vv i did like it dude but there was already likek 17 likes
Bore it out and thrown in vforce Reeds.
Every CZcams video I see is about someone’s dirtbike engine seizing up that’s because these bikes are owned by 16 year-olds who’s daddy just bought them it and they have 0 grasp on how to take care of something that someone els spent hard earned money on
try watching other you tube videos maybe some about anger management issues
1st
Price Fortner and you didnt even like the video!!😀
Can’t believe I was actually 1st video came out 23 min ago I was here 23 min ago 😂 but I guess when u got the best content on CZcams people get here quick
Hmmm 12 hours on a wrong sized piston before it blows up? I call bullshit. And the whole more oil in your gas makes your bike run leaner is bull crap also. You go run a bike at 100:1 and then check the plug and do the same on a bike running 40:1. I guarantee the plug that is 100:1 will look like a white/super light grey which is LEAN and you check the plug 40:1 and it will be a much darker color which means it’s RICHER. I know this because I do this with my bike for the last 25 year when I ride at glamis vs hard packed. In the sand I run 30:1 vs 40:1 and the plug is a darker wetter plug which means RICHER. The spark Plug tells the whole story on how the bike is running.And also the head getting warped with no heat sounds liked bs also. I liked this channel a lot,lately just a lot of bullshit has been going on. Kyle must have certain sponsors he might not want to upset or loose.
I’ve had the same bike for 6 years how do people beat these bikes up so bad? Why when it comes to dirt bikes am I always hearing the word rebuild if you take care of your bike you should not have to rebuild it all I’ve ever had to do is oil change,These bikes are brand new 2017’s 18s you shouldn’t be wrenching on bikes like that this is not 1989 how can you put a piston and that’s to big Y would you mess around with it the engineers at Honda who built this bike had a pretty good idea of what they were doing HahahahaYou shouldn’t even be messing with the bike if it’s only been ridden in 10 hours it should be under warranty
It's not a new bike it's from early 2000s it's a cr250 they have not been made for more then 10 years. He fully rebuilt the bike and obviously made a mistake. Know what your talking about before starting to put your useless comments on videos. Bet you dont even own a bike, maybe your daddy does...
@@thanosbustedinyourmum then how do you still know fuck all about bikes?
@@JD-mj6wj he might buy them but his daddy wrenches them !
I wanna know how he's had the same bike 6 years when he says both bikes he owns are 2017 models ??? 🤔🤔🤔
@@codenamenel I would also really like to know how he has had a 2017 for 6 years that's crazy
codenamenel I have several bikes you idiot I have a dirtbike and a street bike I didn’t know I had to explain my entire life story to you in a comment section the guy above me try to act like I didn’t know anything about bikes I know you’re taking my comment out of context