Roman Tactics - Training, Logistics, Evolution
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- čas přidán 18. 01. 2017
- In this video we shall explore Roman tactics learning also some interesting details.
Vegetius wrote that "every plan... is to be considered, every expedient tried and every method taken before matters are brought to this last extremity [general engagements]... Good officers decline general engagements where the odds are too great, and prefer the employment of stratagem and finesse to destroy the enemy as much as possible... without exposing their own forces."
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Music:
intro ES_Knights Templar 1 - Johannes Bornlöf
outro ES_Knights Templar 2 - Johannes Bornlöf
The paintings are amazing, i like it when they bring history to life with good art.
Dear god how much your videos make my day, especially since I watch them at work
Listening to all of Metatron's videos on Rome while playing total war Rome two and modern romans plays in the background.thanks for all the great content Metaman.
Aaaah Metatron. I always come back to your channel when I'm tired of graphics and video editing and just want to watch someone that loves history as much as I do. Thank you so much for your channel!
@Metatron Your videos really deserve more views than they get, your videos are such high quality! you're one of my favourite CZcamsrs :)
Hello Metatron,
Awesome vid thanks for taking the time to make this :)
Lots of great information, thank you, I always look forward to seeing what you do next!
another superb video metatron, keep 'em coming, and thank you
Just wishing for a new Metatron video and up pops a notification for a new video!
Question: Are the Romans with the drums and flags trained in combat
Probably yes.
Vjorp thnx
Grande Metatron, continua così, grazie a te ho imparato un bel pò di cose. Amo principalmente i tuoi video sull'impero romano e
sulla storia feudale giapponese, mi fa anche piacere vedere un siciliano come me ben informato ahah un abbraccio e buona fortuna per il futuro! :)
These kinds of videos are why this is my favourite channel :D
2:02 "They would carry five days worth of weed..."
Hot damn!
Gotta have something to settle you down after a long day on the road.
The best thing I like about these videos and you metatron, is you appearance and mannerisms. I would bet if I met you in real life you would act as you do in your videos, such a rare thing for youtubers behind the camera. Thank you for that. Keep up the hard work it's well received and enjoyed by us all.
Lots of great information! Thanks for sharing this.
I always love your Roman videos the best. you try to stick to the facts as we understand from classical writers and archaeology. Then you present the material in a great and coherent pattern.
I think i have seen all your videos, your work is great. I am a Roman fan too. Seriously i really appreciate someone like you explaining ancient civilizations as objective as you do. I want to be your friend, gooo work keep it up.
I'm glad to hear that :)
Magnificent video!
Very interesting, especially the fact that they took turns on the fighting frontline.
I really your opening title, logo, and music. Nicely put together!
Have you seen the video with the Korean police force using Roman Tactics ?
Another great video
Awesome video.
Metatron, in Total War: Rome II I seem to have installed a mod which has a function that is called 'Centurion Rotation', indeed rotating the ranks of soldiers to decrease fatigue.
so, not in the basic game, but a mod I think adds it. if you want I can look up which mod it is
Is there an animation for the rotation too? Or does it just make their stamina go fresh?
in R (I) TW they actually switch the ranks. But most of times is done defensively when the are really pressed. For example if they brace a cavalry charge and then the cavalry pushes forward, the legionnaires will fight switching the ranks while retreating.... The mod in RIITW is Caesar's Legions.
,
as always great video. As far as the whistles go it is quite possible that they were used . the trouble that often arises with the Classical period of time is that not everyone kept written records and people did would often leave out stuff that was considered common knowledge and so they didn't think it was worth writing down because everybody knew about it. and of course not today that information is lost because they didn't think to write it down.
very nice video, informative!
This my number one favorite channel.
Thank you!
Cool research, very detailed.
Maybe you could do a more detailed description on the evolution of their weapon and armor and why they changed / adapt thru time. You gave me the idea when you showed me those different classes in their different armor and weaponry.
Kinda interesting to see the changes from dory to sarissa / pilium, from xiphos to gladius, from hoplite shield to tower shield (or the other way around), from sling to more advanced bows/crossbows.
Would be great if you can start as old as the greek / spartan or older since the spartan is a popular topic in the internet. That way you'll have a bigger variety of armor / weaponry to compare against each other.
A whistle makes perfect sense. It is high pitched and unmistakable, whilst a shouted order can be drowned out by the noise of battle. It might be combined with a hand gesture.
The whistle could also be a "Eyes on me" or attention call and from there do the hand gesture.
If enemies tried to copy the whistle sound the romans would surely learn and make a series of calls and change them regularly.
... and what is even more interesting is the changing alignment of the bottom sound tiles, see up to 0:29 we have quite a big gap then it closes a bit and at 3:17 3rd quarter tile completely closes but leaves an L-shape to the left!
All without any whistle blow!
Really god video - more please :)
very interesting video i hope make more videos like this
Ehi Metatron, nice video!
Regarding the tactic of swiching ranks inside a manipulus you mentioned, i must say i've never found any roman source describing it, altough an eminent italian group of experimental archaeology called Ars dimicand has claimed this method was actually used...on the other hand we know for sure, since we have many roman sources mentioning it (Livius, for instance), that romans used to relief a whole manipulus from the battle line, replacing it with another one...I suggest anyone interested in this argoument to check the work of the aforementioned Ars dimicandi on youtube. They wrote a book as well, but i don't know if it's available in english.
As some one who enjoys ancient Roman history, I love your channel. Out of curiosity, have you ever considered talking about the military of the late Western (and/or Eastern) Roman Empire as this does not seem to be topic that is widely discussed.
I suspect the command to rotate the front line was initiated verbally, maybe with a whistle, and then everyone in the unit repeated it out loud so all got the word. They would need a loud way to convey the message in a battle that everyone would could here. They still do things like that in the military today--Like when everyone in an airborne unit yells "6 minutes", and rocks back and forth, as it is announced they are 6 minutes from the drop zone.
Would like to see more on Roman artillery, it was pretty effective but I've seen little on them especially vids of actual firing vs targets.
In Lithuanian, a word "armatūra" means metal bars for supporting insides of concrete constructions.
The whistle idea would make sense. It would be loud enough that it’s more likely to be heard over the din of battle & it would allow the centurions to more quickly & easily communicate the command to switch
It would be awesome if you make a video and compare western Roman empire and eastern Roman empire (militarily, politically and etc)
Hey Metatron, great video! I was curious where you get a lot of your source material for these videos? Furthermore, do you have any plans for making a video on the transition of the Roman Army into the later stage Roman Empire and the split into the Western and Eastern Roman Empires? I know tactics and equipment load outs changed around the 4th century C.E. but was curious to get your take on it! Thanks for all the great videos and keep it up!
From what I know of the British Army in the early 1800's is that 'commands' could be issued by trumpet, whistle or drum depending on the unit commander. "Calls" would be individualized to the unit to prevent soldiers from responding to commands being issued to other units (battlefields of the day were very smoky at times). It's perhaps possible that the Romans did something similar allowing units to decide for themselves (and drill) depending on unit commander preference. The only aspect of a whistle is it doesn't require a separate individual (drummer boy or bugler) to relay the order...
The Romans probably also used flags for signaling in battle besides horns. 📯
Hey, could you do a video about roman units outside the legion and praetorian guard(like the auxilia, vigiles, or the urban cohorts)
Raff, have you considered maybe discussing late Roman Empire tactics as I think there is a great deficit of content in that area of Roman history. Such as the Bucellarii Cavalry etc.
Ti auguro il meglio. Mantenere il buon lavoro!
the whistles could have been for scouts or sentries to give a signal that can reach farther than the human voice...
or for rallying the men at the fort for inspection or for organizing the battle formation so when they hear the whistle they know to immediatly prepare everything at the same time...
could just be used to sound the charge signal, which would send all the men forward at the same time so they dont hit the battle line in pockets or in a diagonal line
Maybe it's like this (I just thought of this, and posted it on Lindybeige's channel, but I'd like any & all peer-review if anyone wants to comment):
In a tight infantry block, only the first rank could throw pila before a charge (ranks 2+ couldn't effectively throw over or
through those in front of them), so if the maniple charged together in a solid formation (as tends to be assumed), everyone from rank 2 upwards would continue to carry their pila throughout the melee for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
Suppose only one rank charged the enemy at a time. They would then withdraw from melee, *flee through the gaps left between the maniples* (that's what they'ed be for!), and ultimately rejoin their unit in the back. While that first wave is in this process of withdrawal, the next rank throws it's pila and charges in. Withering javelin barrage and shock attack in wave after wave, on and on until all the pila are spent, and everyone in the unit has had a turn close-assaulting the enemy.
Then the principes move up.
Hope you contact HBO and ask them to sponsor your videos after if you give them viewers from the content you make.
Maybe they can give you more insight in to there work and give you props.
You are good.
Metatron, you should do a video of your top ten favorite weapons from history!
In Rome: Total War there is no soldier rotation inside a unit (as the unit collectively has a fatigue value) but you can withdraw fatigued units while attacking with a fresh unit if you want to.
@7:23 - I would also speculate that using the more realistically-weighted wooden weapons during sparring was critical in order to develop functional defensive maneuvers, as well. If your opponents' weapons in sparring are twice as heavy as they would be in a real combat situation (thus slower), then your reaction speed won't be developed properly when dealing with the real thing, which would likely prove to be a fatal flaw.
Hi Metatron, i was wondering if you could make a video about ballistas in a near future, why did they use it? What was so effective about them? how did they use it? when did they used it? They seem to me like a strange weapon, kinda like a giant crossbow. Love your vids man
Now one about the food of the legions :) spread the knowledge of the "posca" ;) Still the best drink in the summer
Great video as usual Rafa (hope I spelt that right, probably didn't) and yes, I called you that to look cool 😎
I used to be a scout and I believe that the Roman army did use whistles because we use them in scout training as a command tool.
This is giving me ideas for modding Dwarf Fortress...
Seems as if a loud "to the rear" with souldiers repeating would suffice. Also in combat it would be very fluid as to when you did this. I would imagine when soldiers saw a break in the action or someone tiring they would step in and the relieved souldier go to the rear as trained.
Like Mike Tyson said "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the jaw."
The guys in the back would be monitoring and correcting the line as battle raged on.
This was VERY interesting. Do you have a video about the Roman Navy? What was life like as a naval soldier?
cool vid, my only thinking on the use of whistles is it would be a louder more clear command vs trying to yell over others soldiers during battle, sort of like the bugle boy in the Civil War or even whistles used in WWI. So definitely plausible that Centurions used them.
btw was that a painting of Caesar on the Dover Cliffs?
I think Lindybeige had a video about the Romans swapping the front line like you talk about at the end of this video. He called it the "manipule swap" or something, and had some ideas about how it was actually carried out, though it seemed that noone really know
during basic training particularly riot training they always made a big deal about the Romans "These tactics have been in use since the Romans invented them don't fucking question it"
That amazes me for some reason even a basic barracks layout was created by the Romans i remember watching a documentary on them and it looked exactly like some of the Barracks ive been to
Does the wolf skin on the helmets represent some sort of rank, or is it purely cosmetic?
marcianito 100% real ayy interested in this as well
Telsion Remembering my Roman culture classes, I think it's supposed to be tied to the Vexillarius. I do have a bad memory though, so I can't say with certainty.
marcianito 100% real ayy what are the vexiliarus? :/
Telsion They were a type of signifer, their purpose was to carry the vexillus, which is a warbanner.
marcianito 100% real ayy signiferi? xD
I think a far more important reason to use normal weight weapons in sparring is that with heavier weapons both people are slower and have more time to react and that promotes different techniques making training less efective.
Whistle would be logical item, in a middle of the battle when there is screams, whine, shouting, metal crashing into each other etc , you wont hear centurion shouts, ecpecialy those soldiers who fighting at that moment, whislte high pitch can be heard from afar and clear. Also for shouting you need more energy than simple use of whistle. Take naval commands as example.
I think the main reason for 1:1 weight rated sparring weapons has more to do with experiencing full speed combat. If all training was heavy/slow paced the romans would be staggered the sheer unanticipated speed of wich the enemy executes their attacks, parrys and counters.
The training you describe does not only train for muscle strength, but for muscle memory. In other words, how to move their armament without having to think.
Hey Metatron, just noticed your pronouncation of Rations. id assume your always up for improvement in english :D
The pronunciation is more "Rashions". the t is sort of an s for some reason (dont ask why, english is wierd XD)
loving the videos, keep it up :D
7:55 if your sparring partner used heavier weapons than an actual opponent, his movements and timing would be quite different and you would waste the opportunity to train your reflexes to match actual combat speed. So it's not just learning about your own movement, but your potential enemy's as well.
Jesus christ !!! Is that you ?
haha
johno doh haven't you heard, Metatron is Jesus reincarnated..
Metatron - when you know, by just reading the title of the video, that you are going to put a biiig "like" :D
love the intro jingle/music. what song is it? great video btw
The 'a' in rations is pronounced the same as the 'a' in cat. ;) Keep up the good work.
Could you make another video about other units in the Roman army?
How did they use cavalerie compared to others (and later armies)?
Did they use archers? If not, why?
When did they use the Balistae? Against humans, they look like a ridiculous overkill.
Did they stop fighting with spears at some point?
Roman tactics and logistic operations are still used today in the modern US Army. Basic loads and march rate is direct from the legion.
EY!!! Rome Total War pictures
Hello Metatron, I have a question in relation to "dual wielding". I know you have already made a video on this and have mentionned that it is possible to effectively use two equaly short swords at the same time. I admire the Mainz Gladius and gladiator styles of martial arts. I saw the tv show Spartacus and one of the gladiators (Gannicus) is famous for using a dual gladius loadout, so is Spartacus at one point. I find it to be an interresting way to fight and was wondering what are your thaughts on the use of two gladie(not sure if I wrote this right) and if it would be worth investing time into such training? love your content!
I am curious about the camps of the roman soldiers and how often they would set up the full camp with the stockade when on the march. The focus question could be: "Did the Roman Soldiers really carry 60 pounds of gear and walk 18 miles, and then build a stockade and set up camp every day?"
I think another reason for practising armatura with battleweighted wooden swords would be to be used to the way opponents really fought. Otherwise they would just be used to a fighting style similar to the one in Bloodborne, where the weapons are so heavy that each swing has to be precise and blocking would be less energy efficient than simply riposting in the same tempo as the opponent, because of the combined weight of the shield and the sword striking at it. Of course different mechanics would be at play when thrusting, but ultimately the point is that they probably trained both their own feel for the weapon in armatura, but also the feel for their opponents.
One the use of whistles on the battlefield. I think it is plausible they did this but I think the main reason HBO's Rome shows the Roman officers using whistles to signal orders to their men, is because: most of the cast are British. Of course the viewing audience is primarily American and European, but anyone interested in historic warfare will remember the shrill sounds of whistles everytime British officers gave the order to "go over the top" in World War I. At least, when I hear whistles during a battlescene set in any time period, I will immediately think of the British trenches in World War I. Whistles in combat = grim determination to see it through. I think the Roman Centurions would have had some instrument or hornblower at their disposal because he is just one man and his voice would quickly get lost over the roar and screams of the men in combat.
The Roman army and 1980's era "Light" Infantry are quite similar in terms of marching abilities. The Romans didn't have radios, so with the inclusion of the "Prick 77" and extra batteries in my ruck sack, I actually carried slightly more weight. About 10 kilos more, to be exact. It ruined my back and much later my feet, so don't try this at home.
Holy cow, that hair Raph.
Its a long time since I played Vanilla Rome II. But I think ther rotaion of men to the frontline was simply done by giving the unit a better fatigue resistance in combat.
Metatron I wish to more about Roman Empire History and their culture, as a boy I became interested in Roman Soldiers. Does all of your videos only focus on this subject or do you have a playlist of it from the start?
A legate: nothing can Push Through our MOuntain SHIELD WALL!!!!!!
Enemy trooper: Fire The BAllista !!!!!.
The Legate:😮. We taking THAT.
i just started reading De Re Militari these coupledays
@00:42 Caesar invents the selfie on his first expedition to Britain.
Nice video! Where can i buy that nice romen armor?
Metatron. would you recommend steel or stainless steel for Lorica Segmenata sparing. And where did you get your Lorica Segmentata?
SPQR FTW.. i want more
Subbed
+Metatron
1) According to conquest TV show they used trumpets when givving orders
2) Are the romans with trumpets and horns trained in fighting, something tells me they arent
the scorpion, my favorite siege weapon in DAOC.
I liked the video, but where did you find those images/pics of Roman soldiers?
Please, make a video about the Pretorian Guard.
wow romans were amazing
Hi, can u do a video on the siege of Syracuse? I read about that only in math books, in discussion about Archimedes. It'll be great to know that from a millitary historical point of view.
It'll be great to learn about Archimedes as a millitary inventor as well.
I think they used whistles in battle for creating this rotation effect, it seem only logical. In a battle there must have been some incredible noise of screaming men, armor in movement and banging with swords, metal against metal, against shields and so on. Everyone who has been in an situation with lot of different sounds know that a low high pitch tone for some reason, mostly makes through all the other sounds. Imagine a centurion screaming orders in all this chaos, not likely that anyone would understand. A horn would be too bulky in this tight situation, also giving extra weight comparing o a little whistle that could make a high pitched sound that breaks through most other sounds, may I even say Piercing it ;). I cant come up with any other explanation to how they were able to communicating in that situation so it is most likely true. Also we have other historical examples of this method have been used in battle, to back it all up. In both world war one and two whistles were used because exactly this reason, it's piercing sound will likely make the men hear it.
I know nothing about Roman training but I would imagine they used the lighter wooden swords in sparring to reduce injuries also. It would make sense in my opinion
heavier wooden sword and shield because when they carried the actual weapon and shield it would feel lighter to carry.
Hey Metatron not sure if you will see this but im going to be visiting Rome this month with my wife and i was wondering where would be the best place to go to see ancient roman equipment, information and artifacts?
Hello Metatron so great viedos! But i have to ask for the rotational formation and testudo. I have read instagram posts of @roman.military.history and he says that there is no historical evidences of roman rotational formation and that they actually use testudo in combat. Can you please tell me your opinion of this, or pass some historical articles were can i read it for myself and take my conclusions? Again thank you very much for this amazing videos!
Where did you find that picture used @1:40 ?
when we don´t know for sure if something happened, but there is a possibility, I see no problem in a movie (it's actually a series) using it.
we also don´t know if the centurions shouted in latin... so...
the problem is when we KNOW it wasn´t a certain way and a movie or series do it the way we know to be wrong.