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Did Roman Soldiers Wear Red Tunics?
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- čas přidán 15. 08. 2024
- What is the colour of Roman soldiers' tunics? Are they really all red like we see in the movies and in many videogames? Is there any
evidence for other colours like blue tunics and blue shield like we
sometimes see in Rome total war? What about the Green tunics worn by the Romans in Asterix and Obelix? Was yellow ever a colour for the Romans? And how about white?
PS: When I say "polybius" I ment "Plutarch", sorry for that, both with a "p" ;)
here is what historians say
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Well the answer depends on whether they fought for the Julii, Brutii, or Scipii ;)
Cole .S u know that's just in Rome total war it's not really historically accurate it's just for video game purposes because every faction in the game has their special colors to make battles easier
Arvos Crusader nah dude, I'm studying classics in college and let me tell you that is historical fact
Cole .S haven't actually heard that anywhere but I trust u
Cole .S though I'll probably do some research
I'm almost certain he is joking.
At first they were wearing red, but then - Aiooo, wololooo, and they wore blue.
That is actually not a bad money scheme. Have piece of cloth in yellow or somesuch. Have monk dressed in purple go "WOLOLOO" towards it. Sell the now purple cloth. repeat. Profit.
Ham Brügger Rogan?
Age of Empires reference.
Step 1: Wear purple toga.
Step 2: AIOOO, WOOLOLOOO!
Step 3: Prophet.
They were not barbarians! They dressed for dinner.
'Did Roman soldiers wear red tunics?'
'Yeah sure, some did.'
Clearly, Roman soldiers wore white so they could dye it red with the blood of their enemies!
Blood as a dye produces a dark brown colour, not red.
jeremiaas15 you're a party pooper.
Tolunay Avci nahh hes just not a dumbass
+jeremiaas15 as every girl knows.
Actually when i was a kid i red in a history book that tunics were dyed red because by doing so, blood spilling from the wounds wouldn't be noticed. That might be bullshit because i haven't found anyone else saying this.
As a German I find the irony of Caesar's name quite funny.
When you pronounced his name it sounds like the German word Kaiser meaning emperor yet we pronounce his name "tsezar".
It is fascinating to me the name Caesar made it into the German language as the word for emperor.
I recently saw a show about this, the "C" has always been pronounced as "K" by Romans and those who prefer historical correctness but some ignorant Brits started pronouncing it "Seezer" and it stuck.
@@yoursotruly Not ignorant, its just how Latin evolved over 2700 years
The name didn't make it into the German language per se, though.
It was already used in Latin as a word for emperor. It entered the names, or titulature of imperators of Rome.
Gaius Caesar Augustus Germanicus
Tiberius Caesar Augustus
And so on.
From there, it entered proto Germanic, Greek, and so on.
Russian Tsar (царь) comes from Ceasar as well, too, for example.
Imagine learning about the tetrarchy in German
Not just german, for example Tsar is also derived from caesar. And the word emperor comes from imperator
12:43 i think i would prefer a white tunic in Egypt, too.
I would prefer a sort of mustard yellow, so that it would not show sweat stains so badly.
or piss stains
a brown tunic for you!
And a cloth cover for my metal helmet.
Where not the white tunics not made from linen rather than wool and so would not readily take dye?
As someone with some natural dye experience, I'd like to add a few things.
As far as these other substances are concerned, I believe your referring to mordants. The reality is, a single dye plant, as it's called, can produce a range of dyes and tones, and a vast amount. A lot of factors go into determining what color you get. For example, PH, whether the water is acidic or alkaline, or more neutral, will alter the colors. The specific mordant chosen will also alter the colors. If you use a modifier, that will also alter the colors. How hot the water is can also produce interesting colors. Madder will be browner if it goes above a certain temperature.
Mordants can be produced from plants (oak galls, rhubarb leaf, for example), it can be salt, or something with certain metals in it, like copper, iron, or aluminum (although Iron can also be used as a modifier). Alum is a common mordant nowadays. Some say vinegar or lemon juice is a mordant, other say no. People's stance on that differs. But it can be used in dyeing.
That said, some plants don't need a mordant added to them. You can still alter the color with modifiers.
The dye process will also influence the color. Were things mordanted cold or hot? How many times was it mordanted? Did you use a variety of mordant combinations (alum, oak galls, alum combo)? Was it a fermentation dye (fermentation dyes are not just for blue colors such as indigo and woad). Was it dyed hot or cold? Solar dyed? Did you premordant the skein/fiber/fabric, or did you mordant and dye it at the same time? Post mordant? Use a pot as mordant? And how was the dye extracted? Was it extracted cold or hot? If hot, what temperature was it extracted?
How much dye was added? All dye stuff needs to be weighed as a percentage of the weight of what is being dyed. That can influence whether the item ends up pale or deep colored. This will also determine color.
That's not on top of the possibility of over dying, (dyeing blue on yellow dyed fabric, for example).
And what was dyed? Was it dyed in the fiber then spun? Or was it dyed in the yarn, then woven? Was it the cloth that was dyed? Was it spun woolen or worsted? These can effect the perception of the color.
Kermes is interesting. Eventually, it was superseded by cochineal. Between the two, cochineal is more popular nowadays.
Just thought I'd add some info!
Thanks for the video!
Thank you for this informative video. As a native speaker of Persian from Iran I found two interesting things I wanted to share:
- Saffron is most widely found in eastern Iran nowadays and Iran is the biggest producer worldwide. There’s still some debate about the place of origin of the plant but it’s most widely believed to be originated from Iran. If this origin theory is indeed true, maybe the Romans decided to import it and cultivate the plant in regions with somewhat similar climates to eastern Persia, namely Greece and Spain, just like what happened with domestic silk production during the time of Justinian. It would be really nice if further excavations and research could reveal the history of saffron in Europe.
- The word for color red in Modern Persian is "قرمز /ɢeɾmez/" which comes from Middle Persian "Kermest". "کرم /kerm/" in Modern Persian means "worm" and it is believed the color was named as such because of the fact it was produced from the insect you mentioned. It was really interesting when you mentioned the color name in Latin, it shows that the words most probably have a common ancestor from the earlier Proto Indo-European language.
What a thoroughly fascinating and intelligent contribution your comment was. Iran, I would argue is most likely the origin of saffron with highest production and consumption. This is identical to 20th century apple cultivars, where their origin nation is nearly always the main consumer. There are exceptions ie "granny smith" apples but the exceptions prove the rule, did they not?
I would disagree cochineal was a dye source because it is a New World or outer Old World dye source, when much cheaper, more plentiful and weedlike 'madder' (rubia tinctorum). Saffron may have been used for orange-tan-yellow but I would also argue the Iranians kept such a valuable product to themselves- doubtless there was some trade in "used saffron" for the lower classes to savour something the upper classes probably used to excess (as a display of wealth- everyone loved to clothe, eat and consume as ostentatious displays of wealth- only later more Stoic influenced Catholic monks would have lectured against "luxuria" and God's preference of ascetic lifestyles (live as Jesus did as a pauper among the poor; the meek and poor over wealthy as Christ said "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man enter heaven". Obviously Christ and society back then were far less naive than us today about the moral scruples of the wealthy and the plethora of sins they either engaged in to attained their wealth or indulged in while wealthy.
It's quite easy to see how Christianity as an ascetic and Stoic faith converted so many of the poor, the military classes and so on- much the same I imagine Muhammad (SAW) had such a normalities, culture and moral lightning strike among the polytheistic tribes of His time. With Muhammad (SAW) like Christ, their testament was so other worldly especially blaming poverty on society especially social lack of mirality and compassion completely differently to Hindu-Buddhist blaming the pauper for his poverty as punishmebt for past lives' sins. This attitude very much continues in India with its anti-Christian, anti-Islam caste discrimination and Thailand, Laos and Cambodia blaming victims of landmines as an untouchable or justly punished caste, their horrific maiming being considered punishment in this life for their previous incarnations' sins- whereas Islam-Christianity (fastest growing religions in these areas) says no- it was clearly an horrific accident caused by the stupidity and inhumanity of those who landmined the area and their soul has unequivocal equality in society with full chance, no different to others', of total Redemption especially through charity.
I remember hearing this is why the British uniform was red in the time of the empire as it was the cheapest colour to dye a uniform.
Doesn’t hurt that when you’ve been shot you’re friends can’t tell.
The color was known as "Venetian Red" and was indeed the cheapest.
@@RangerHouston If your comrades are paying attention, however, it might be a giveaway when you groan and keel over.
I thought it was for if they get hurt when they bleed they look like there immortal since u can’t see blood
I know its been years. But does anyone have any source for this because it might help an essay im working on
So....are you saying there is a chance,even if it is small, that some roman soldiers wore pink tunics ? Even due to fading?
"Quintilius Varus, give me back my pink legions!"
Omg this made me laugh out loud.
Quote of the Year definitely!
Up untill early 20th century pink was considered to be a pretty butch colour.
Still want them back low "Quintilius Varus, give me back my pink legions"
Lmfao
Hmm what would pink signify?
Red meaning Mars, military and martial power.
White meaning well read, intelligence, patience
Pink meaning someone similar to Marcus Aurelias? A Warrior Poet?
I guess we tend to assume ancient soldiers had a uniform because that *has* been the case in the last few centuries
Agreed, I would go as far to say a lot of people don't realize how incredibly costly war was in those times. The early Roman legions were members of the upper crust because only they could afford the horses/armor/weapons needed to fight in battle. It was only since the Marian reforms that equipment was provided to the legions for free and ranks opened up to anyone.
It would make sense then if everyone was buying their own equipment the army would come out looking less than uniform, pun intended. In fact, it used to be a point of pride to say you could afford to fight in Rome's wars.
Been proven through the years that depending on who the soldier served if try was navy cav or foot and what era and post.
Soldier
Red
Brown
Yellow
White
Cav
Light brown
White
Red
Brownie green
Navy
Blue
Moss green
Orange
Well at least we are definitely certain they didn't wear Green. Since Green isn't a creative color.
They also probably didn't use orange, they wouldn't want their enemies thinking creatively and seeing a silly face walking along and smiling at them.
Nathaniel Jernigan True warrior always wears pink. 😏
qwerty qwerty they typically slip into their pink before and after battle. Only the truly brash do *it* during. 😉
qwerty qwerty PRAETORIANS!
pink? we are not talking about Thebens here.
Who would like to see metatron playing mount and blade warband? :)
qwerty qwerty Nah... immersion scientists say that mount and blade is not....... ammersive
Who would like to see Metattron playing Warband... Multiplayer xD
Man, it would take a huge amount of time to get used to that...
The_Shinigami Pixelated Apollo did that and plays with his subscribers against other youtubers. :D
I never trust immersion scientists, they're not very convincing.
enoughofyourkoicarp What eaven are they? 😅
Love how your accent is quite well spoken British But with Italian bits here and there :)
Keep up the great work metatron. You keep my work days interesting (I listen to your videos in the background). You answer questions I never thought to ask.
Why metatron why so early in the morning now i have to loose my university lesson
Nikos Dikelas lol. Its afternoon here
The Aussie Bogan 10:17 here and my lesson starts at 10:20😂
Nikos Dikelas it's 2 am here lol
You can't say under a professor's video that you will lose an university lesson LMAO
orsettomorbido sadly i did XD
Red is the best color! Too bad in fiction it usually means you're the bad guy.
"All wings report in."
"Red 10 standing by."
"Red 7 standing by."
"Red 3 standing by."
"Red 6 standing by."
"Red 9 standing by."
"Red 2 standing by."
"Red 11 standing by."
"Red 5 standing by."
germanvisitor2 I said usually dammnit!
Daredevil, Red Tornado, Captain Marvel, Iron Man, Red Riding Hood, Red Robin, Mario :-)
germanvisitor2 Krauts never give up do they? lol
Red Skull!
... Oh wait!
Awww Asterix o/ As a French guy, thank you for the reference xD
;)
I remember watching Asterix when I was a tiny thing. Good stuff for sure.
When my father was stationed in Germany, I watched Asterix a lot. It brings back so many fond memories. I do forget, however, His big friend's name. Nonetheless, my favorite was Asterix Vs. the bureaucracy.
coucou
Read every single one of the Stories (yes they're comics before anything else). ^^
Jeffery -> Obélix is the name of the big friend.
Et salut ^^
You look and sound real tired in this one. I know you promised yourself to do a new video every day, but if it's getting to the point of harming your health, don't be shy to take a day or two off. Your health is more important than any given video; take care of yourself first, videos second!
Thank you very much for your concern :)
I am inclined to agree with sststr, go for quality of qunatity and keep yourself sane, even if that means skipping a day or two. We arn't going anywhere ;]
fuck you Metatron
this did crack me up a bit, completely out of the blue lol
This Mr.Chickennuget surely is a true gentleman and a bright example to us all ;)
When Metatron fixes you with his steely gaze, you know you're just wrong, about everything, and there's no point even trying to argue. It's a powerful thing.
I'm in awe at how interesting and informative this video is!
I could listen to you pronounce Latin binomials all day.
If some historians think it's impossible to understand the Roman army without having been in it then why are they wasting their time?
Because they think being in a reenactment club is just as good as having been in the actual Roman army. Of course there are records of Vegetius never having been in a reenactment club.
Historians are ALWAYS writing about peoples, places, and events they have no personal experience of. It's ridiculous to pretend anyone has to serve in an army to understand it. Most military historians have never been in combat and I guarantee you none living today ever fought in an ancient battle.
A big problem with 'history' is that you don't have to know what you are talking about to write and sell books to other people who don't know what you're writing about.
I have a section in my personal library of trash history books. Mostly on military history.
Tomartyr mabey some of those kinds of historian are wannabe renacters.
It's the historical version of saying "Bro have you even served?!" when someone tries to comment on military matters and you get those angry veterans who "gatekeep" the military like you can only know if you've experienced it or something.
I really enjoy the Roman content the most. Excellent video, thanks Metatron!
In the pre-marian legion there would be no uniform tunic color at all (it being a citizen militia). And after the marian reforms and in the Imperial era it seems one should not assume that there were uniform tunics. I do think it's certain that post-marian legionairies got standard issue cloaks and belts from the government. The soldier's belt was his uniform? At least I've read that the belt of a legionairy was the most important sign of him being a soldier.
Very true, infact they would wear the belt on the tunic when not wearint armour, but it's still far from being a uniform.
Oh very true! Military uniforms as we know them are a fairly new thing that only really became standard in the 17th century
The nearest contemporary I can cite is Cromwell's New Model Army. The original Redcoats.
I'd contend that the Romans had the finance and capability to equip their men better than Cromwell ever could, yet he was able to establish uniformity and consistency of arms, armour and equipment. Granted he didn't need to make more than breastplates and helmets, far easier than making mail. And he didn't have such long distances or supply lines to worry about. But otherwise, why shouldn't Rome have been as good?
A certain amount of uniformity is required to make a unit work. Issuing weapons makes sense so they can share the same reach, or all be equipped to throw pilae. Having a mix of various weapons in a unit would have a poor effect on its capabilities. It leaves you with a feudal peasant mob. Chances are that Rome at least issued weapons.
Having a uniform colour would help ensure that similarly equipped soldiers in a melee could identify who was on which side (think of pre-imperial times, Sulla, Caesar, Pompey, Octavian, Antony). Lose unit coherency for any reason and how to tell who's who? From a practical point of view, you'd want roughly the same colour in your unit. However, why not just paint your shields to do this? Way cheaper, and the tunics would be mostly obscured by the mail being worn. Again, it would make sense to have a certain amount of centralised control over this even if it's just issuing paint...
Yes, and the professional military mind has always favored uniformity, when achievable. Rome spent much on its army and I doubt they skimped on dyes. Contractors for supplies and equipment could easily have supplied batches of cloth in uniform colors, or even made up the garments themselves.
Actually many indigenous peoples even had uniforms, complete with "metals" for prestigious acts of service. The concept of uniformity is ancient. Every people wanted to be readily identifiable as one of the tribe/of the warband so to not to be mistaken as an enemy.
I remember when you had less than 5k subscribers! Congratulations! I wish you continued success.
I love how the plants used for cheap dyes are literary called tinctoria or "to dye."
"Purple was expensive"
Understatement of the century
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that if you choke a bloke enough he'll be just the right shade, that's for free.... Shame you can't put that color on a fabric... That'd be neat.
Great video, as always!
Just a few things, Polybius was long dead by Caesar's time, so he wouldn't be describing his campaigns. Also the problem with Vegetius isn't so much that he wasn't in the army but that he lived right at the very end of the empire by which time, as you no doubt already know, the Legions had changed profoundly.
Grazie mille per il tuo lavoro and per l'informazione, l'ho trovata molto interessante.
Bravo, ottimo inglese! Hai pensato a realizzare questi video anche in italiano? Argomenti sempre intetessanti e di buon livell culturale: bravo!
Can you make a video about Roman exploration? Where did they go? Did they ever trade with Chinese?
Slashplite I think I have heard in a TV documentary that in China they even had a mercenary army from Rome, described as "they fight like the scales of a snake " in referral to their testudo. Also they have found some roman coins in China. I could be wrong because I don't have the exact source, but the TV program was from a famous Italian documentarist (Alberto Angela), known to be quite serious 😁
The Romans most defiantly traded with the Chinese and Indians, whether they went there or not I have no idea..
not directly. They knew about China, but not very many Romans ever went there. They also didn't have a clear idea of where it was, and certainly no idea how big it was. On maps it occasionally appears as a small nation just east of "Sogdia": but obviously this is not at all accurate. If there were Romans who had been to China, they obviously weren't divulging what they knew. More likely, for the most part, the Chinese came to the Romans.
Sophie Jones But was China a United nation at that time?
I don't know much Chinese history, so I'm not 100% sure how politically united they were. The region was vaguely known as "Chin" or "China" to the Persians, Seleucids and Romans. This might have represented an economic confederation rather than a political entity though, I'm not sure.
+Metatron, do you know what was up in China circa the 1st Century BC?
If blue and red are cheap why can't you mix them up to make purple? Or does my first grade science not apply here
My guess would be that it just makes brown because of the different materials.
Gloin79 they may not mix well being made of different substances and dyes set differently so they won't wash out.
well we all know everyone wore brown in the past, you can see it in all the movies :p
Mixing blue and red would give them dull violet instead of vibrant purple. Close but the difference would be visible and mocked at a posh party :-)
Mixing blue and red gives violet? Only in a RGB screen world.
polybius couln't have possible written about julius caesar as he was dead at that time. u mixed up some other writer
as for vegetius - the main problem is being him a later author so his description of earlier periods might be compromised
I have also wondered about the Polybius mix-up. Maybe he meant Tacitus or Livy.
@@Thetarget1
I immediately thought there must be a mistake when Metatron quoted "Polybios", which couldn't possibly be right. I thought he must have meant correctly either Plutarch or Cassius Dio, as my first two bets.
kinda random but metatron dude youre awesome. I love when I see true honest people who have great intentions like yourself. knowledge is the most priceless of all our resources. thank you. and its kinda weird huh like. that one saying . u either got it or u don't for a lot of things in life. and you got it. u got something that just makes you so charismatic and addictive to watch
Metatron your videos are absolutely wonderful. I have received such a great insight into the Roman world and culture by watching your videos. I admire the depth of your knowledge about this age in history as well as your mastery of ancient Latin spoken and written. I consider your videos a must see for anyone who wants an in depth crash course about all facets of the time of this great Roman civilization. I am curious if you are English or Italian? Thank You Very Much for Great Works!
I'm redy to hear what you red about roman tunics.
Aite, I'll see myself out.
Jonathan Fischer -_-
Jonathan Fischer You're the reason that The Bronze Bull was invented.
*slow clap*
Nail him to a foking cross.
Jonathan Fischer I'm a god gremmer
1.40 am looks at subscription box a Metatron video and about Rome no less. BTW hello from Canada.
I'm so glad I came across you channel....so informative, interesting, and delivered in such a wonderful speaking voice......
Metatron, Good video. Colors were complicated back then because some of them were reserved as marks of distinction and some were appropriate at certain times and places. Mark Anthony was criticized for entering the Senate wearing a red military cloak. I've read a lot of ancient Roman histories- a hobby of mine- and the impression I got was that scarlet was a color reserved for the nobility and the purple for the Imperial family, at least as far as stripes on formal wear like a toga was concerned. This was by law. Over time there was a lot of variance in the width of the stripe(s) until that too was controlled eventually by a law limiting the stripe width. Though not certain, I think the same laws regarding color also governed tunic color, scarlet for nobles and purple for Imperials. Of course they could wear other colors as they wished, unless prohibited by law.
I also got the impression that different units had what they considered their standard look, like shield shape, type, colors and patterns. I do know that later on regulations or requirements were made for auxiliary units as to what standard equipment they should have and what arms they were to bear, and the Romans had already been organized.. I can't help but think that at least in the Roman army, different units had things like individual legion colors and that their tunics would match, especially if dyes for the colors were cheap and clothing affordable by the legionary soldiers. Such things make it easier to identify friend or foe in battle, and the Romans were practical. Plus it enhances unit cohesion, the group identity. For units the size of a legion it wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility that a merchant who could provide just such colored tunics would travel with them. 5,000 plus soldiers would make a good customer base for such a specialized merchant
I think this specific video is about the late Republic period, so there was no imperial family to wear purple yet. To be honest, it is a bad question to ask: "what color did the Roman soldiers wear?" If I asked you "what color did the American soldiers wear", you wouldn't know how to answer, because it's changed, significantly, more than a dozen times in the last 200 years. And the "Roman soldier" existed for 2000.
But then again, everyone asking about "Roman soldiers" is only asking about legionaries from 55-34BC, because that's the only "Rome" anyone cares about. So maybe it's not so bad a question.
6:37 I think the word you are looking for is “tribunes”
The idea that there was a uniform military garb for the Roman army seems to have come about from Trajan's column, which shows Roman soldiers wearing identical Lorica Segmentata while fighting the very diversely attired Dacians. The problem of course is that Trajan's column is rather propagandastic triumphant iconography and can't be trusted to provide a realistic view of the Roman army.
_diversely attired Dacians_ ...? Not really. Noblemen wear "pileus" that Phrygian style cap and the rest did not. The other clothing elements were the same.
Another great segment. I learned quite alot, thank you
Really great video as always! I've actually been interested in finding out about ancient dyes for a while, so that was also an unexpected surprise :D
I find it hard to believe that with all the frescos in Pompeii that there isn't a single image of a soldier wearing a tunic of some color.
The quote about Caesar ordering the purple tunic to be hung in front of his tent is very interesting. Are you completely sure that it is from Polybius? I have read his Historia and can't remember that he referred to any Caesar. Seing as the most famous Caesar, being Gaius Julius, lived some 40 years after Polybius it would be rather strange if Polybius mentioned him or any of his successors.
I would like to know the answer to this as well.
Rickard Öberg He made a mistake, it was Plutarch. There is a clarification in the video description.
I didn't notice that. Thanks for letting me know :)
"They never mention bibliography" vs I just quote a random author.
@Sam Percy that is correct as far as I know aswell :)
This video: 10/10
Your channel in general: 10/10
Now let's continue binge watching. :D
Many thanks to Author for the very interesting and detailed explanation for the topic! I subscribed :)
Just wanted to comment 16:00 for the crimson dye source. The Ukrainian, Belorussian, Polish languages use traditional Slavic names for the months, not the Roman ones like Russian does. These Slavic names all reflect seasonal natural changes and agricultural seasonal works. In particular, the name for 'June' is 'Cherven'. This is exactly because in June there was a time to collect chervets insects to make crimson dye. Old Slavic and modern Ukrainian 'chervets' is Latin 'cermes'. Moreover, the color 'red' in Ukrainian is 'chervony' due to this insect (well, going further in ethyology, the word 'chervets' comes from the Slavic root 'cherv' which means simply 'worm' :)
16:30 Latin 'reseda' is Ukrainian 'rezeda'; 16:40 Latin 'lichen' is Ukrainian 'lishay'; Latin 'rubia' is Ukrainian 'marena'; 17:30 Latin 'isatis' is Ukrainian 'wayda', and, yes - all of them were (and still are) used in Ukrainian traditional crafts to produce corresponding dyes.
Turns out the Romans were wearing green
I just had a realization. Mr Metatron, is there a connection between Mars and MARtial arts? Was the term "martial" derived from Mars?
demomanchaos Yes It was
A lot of English words have Latin roots (either directly from Latin or via old French).
demomanchaos Yes, the Latin root of martial is "martialis", which means "of, or pertaining to, Mars" which, with Mars being the God of War, implies "of, or pertaining to, War". Hence the modern meaning of "martial".
Actually, it comes from MARSupial. Think "Perry the Platypus".
There is also a connection to March (or Mars in French), as it was the start of the campaign season after a winter's rest.
This was an excellent and thorough exposition on a fascinating subject. Since I am a fine artist painting one thing occurred to me. In your mention of a painting in Pompei, you described three soldiers, one red and two with white tunics. It has been for centuries in modern time a convention to use red color to draw the eye to an object that is most significant in the painting as well as to draw that object forward. And the color red is reserved for that purpose. Is it possible that the artist in Pompei was using colors for an esthtic reason and not to describe reality? Perhaps, what do you think.
Another proof and exemple why you're in my eyes the best reviewing historian on CZcams. This video again was full with clear information. Wich we can use for our reenactment clothing and color selection. Thank you Metatron!
Pfff, did they wear red? Everybody knows even in WW I everything was black and white 🤔😉
Excellent vid! One of the best you've done.
One thing though; the plural of armour is armour - not "armours". It is an irregular plural noun; so armour, not armours.
So I should say "here we have two armour?"
Metatron Here we have two sets of armour
Incorrect. It would be, "men wearing different _types of_ armour, such as Milanese or Gothic plate". It is an irregular plural noun that is unchanged in its use, ergo the spelling does not change in plural form. For example, you would not say (or write) "the different deers, such as Mule or White Tail", you'd say (or write), "the different deer, such as Mule or White Tail". or, "the different types of deer, such as Mule or White Tail".
A few more examples of unchanged irregular plural nouns would be: sheep, offspring and aircraft.
You guys are mixing up mass nouns and irregular plurals
Deer is a different case than armor, which works like other words like pants, grass, information, with a "type of", "set of", "pair of", "patch of" whatever, before it. Deer, fish, chicken, doesn't require that construction because those nouns are inherited from an old neuter plural pattern in Old English. These words are differentiated by articles, "I see a deer", "I see deer" (note that "the deer" is ambiguous).
English is such a fucked up language...
It is great to have found this living History Channel on CZcams. I will be instigating his videos further. Great Work, Sir!!!
This is the first Metatron video I've seen. Heard the channels name in list referring to similar channels such as Shadiversity and Skallagrim.
Really enjoyed the video and love the proper latin pronunciations of Caesar and v words. As well as the accent.
"If it works, it just- it just works."
Red is cooler, that's the point.
Red attracts bulls
Red goes fastaaa!
Curse you Danish
Meta, here I am watching an old video. and look at this you got 350k subscribers now. good on you brother!
I remember a reference of Caesar wearing a red cape at some time during the final siege against Vercingetorix on the War of the Gaul. But could be an invention, also the way it's mentioned led me to think, at the time, that this red cape was a sort of special thing.
what colour was the tunic before applying any dye?
A slightly darker/dirty shade of white which would vary depending on the fabric used either wool or linen.
A-ha...
most pure things are white
Lime bleach was used to make fabric white. fabrics are not "pure" until bleached and dyed.
I have a white tunic I purchased at a medieval Faire, it’s quality.
What could I use to dye it red ??!!
Any good dyes to get the Roman color red ?
Would you be able to do a video about the Roman soldiers that were used by the Parthians against the ancient Han empire? I recently read a little about this and I wondered what your thoughts on it were?
You are amazing! And i need to say, a love the videos about Elder Scrolls. Hello from Brazil.
I don't think I've ever finished one of your videos. I think I'm hooked but then I click on another video I find interesting.
So was there a standardisation of Roman equipment at any time? I know there was a military reform in later Roman history, but wasn't there any army standard, any piece of equipment provided by the state?
I used to know about swords , shields and pillum being issued by the state.... , but now I am not so sure ... hm , indeed how was the equipment provided ? good question !
oh ok cool , good to know Thanks :D
The belts
it is a common misconception to think the Roman's opened trade routes to China, in truth there is little evidence that any trader would travel any significant distance across the silk road, it was not economical to go from China even all the way to Persia let alone Mediterranean.. it was more a relay system of many merchants traveling short distances, it is also why the price and value of good went up so much as they moved because there were a great deal of middle men. a few Chinese explorers and monks did go all the way to India and often to Persia but the Parthians and Sassanids acted as a middle man between Han China and Roman Mediterranean guarding there position jealously as there was great wealth to be made
the sogdians are the best example of a silk road empire based purely on trade, check them out if you are interested in silk road economics the word sogdian even became the word for merchant across the silk road as they were so prevalent in the trade
Yeah, I was taught it during studies in vexilology that crimson was expensive but red was cheap. So I have to second this idea.
BTW, I do appreciate the effort you make to read and check on your ideas. So far, I find your interpretations make sense, and I like that you remind people that Rome existed for long period, and its customs and actions differed over time. I like that you remind people that history is complex and that true certainty is rare.
Imagine romans wearing pink ... or rainbow colours ... that would make them a fabulous army :P
aleš Matoh +
There are actually pics showing them in pink shades tunics .-)...however it was only in late 19th century that pink started to be associated with females in western world.
aleš Matoh be one amazing sight before they rekt your culture and religion xD
+David Quezada worth it :P
the Bi empire
How would the colour white be produced? Or rather, how did the process of making white tunics go? Would that have been cheaper than any other colour?
When we say white we mean the natural colour of wool, so a kind of dirty white, and yes that's the cheapest option for sure.
Thanks, so really we should imagine legionaries(?) wearing a mixture of tunic colours, but mostly grey/yellowish white?
Why you think that legionaries should wear the cheapest possible option??? What are they, the army of hobos? Have you ever seen what happens with soldier looks when the uniform discipline relaxes? Have you ever seen the pictures of soldiers of the past? Bling of war! If you look dirty cheap you are either a rookie or on a very hard campaign or a loser...
I wasn't suggesting they were a bunch of unwashed, unshaven extras from a Conan movie. Rather that it wouldn't have looked like Hollywood where everyone has the same armour and tunic. I just considered that the economics of investing in amour and equipment vs investing in a fancy tunic, a recruit might prefer to skimp on the latter. Then again it's very possible commanders would like to have all their men wearing the same colour, we don't know.
I believe historically the easiest way to produce bleach was from urine. I'm not sure about the Roman Empire specifically though
Finally a good video to watch about roman soldiers and their colours. Thank you, Metatron!
G'day,
Yay Team !
I am possessed of an aged matriarch who studied fashion & design for 4 years back in the 1950s, then taught it in Schools & Technical Colleges... ; and when I was a child (1970) she started getting into Spinning & Weaving, so of course dyeing the Yarn which she'd spun, before or after weaving it, was "all part of the trip".
For years, we had a set of Floor-to-Ceiling Curtains in the Dining-room in which the Warp was handspun wool dyed Green with boiled-up dried Seaweed, and the Weft was handspun & dyed Yellow with boiled-up Onion-Skins...; it's quite a production to grow up around, it goes on for days for each batch/colour.
An easier way of getting Colour-Contrast is to shear black Sheep as well as white ones.
I have a "Sports-Jacket" made of homemade Tweed woven from Black & White Merino, and a matching Tie in Black & White Merino woven in Houndstooth pattern on a 4-Shaft Loom...; the Tweed Jacket - including being hand-tailored - took 1,000 Hours of skilled work from Fleece to first wearing..., and the Houndstooth Tie took 100 (she got 9 Ties out of the Swatch of cloth, 4 went to family-members & 5 to Sheepfarmers who had been donating Fleeces).
The old girl is 80 these days, still spinning & weaving, and she has 9 or a dozen 60 year-old women all learning different kinds of weaving on different Looms, simultaneously ; we joke that she's cloning her Skillset into separate Brains, in parallel, so that when she "falls off the perch" the knowledge isn't lost to the community, at a functional level.
We live in interesting times ,
;-p
Ciao !
Dear metatron
I really enjoy your videos. I feel your debunking ones are a bit harsh as those videos are clearly made for a more casual audience. All the same really enjoy your work, and was wondering what's your opinion on the movie the last sumarai both in historic accuracy and just as a movie in general.
I think I will make a video about that film eventually ;)
Metatron I'd like to see a video on it!
Be prepared for a little bit of rage from it when he does lol.
"Fragments of surviving clothing and wall paintings indicate that the basic tunic of the Roman soldier was of red or undyed (off-white) wool". - Sumner, Graham (2009). Roman Military Dress. Stroud: The History Press.
Very interesting video. Can you do a video regarding legionnaires from the Egyptian province. I am very curious how the Theban legion (Christian legion that was martyred) looked like?
Great work as always, love your videos! As a biologist however I feel I must correct you on the definition of lichen. They're in fact not plants but rather complex organisms formed of mycobionts (fungi) and photobionts (algae or cyanobacteria).
Did Roman soldiers need to buy their armour after the Marian reforms, or were they given their equipment by the state/general?
Because if you have to buy the equipment - what's the point of allowing the poor into the legions?
dIRECT0R equipment was a statal duty si ce the times of Furius Camillus.
No, the Marian reforms allowed the poor into the legions. Before that everybody had to have their own equipment. AFTER the Marian reforms (which were obviously instituted for the manpower), did soldiers still need to buy their equipment? I don't think so, it doesn't make much sense - what's the point if you still had to have enough money.
Why is Metatron talking about legionnaires buying their armour??
dIRECT0R no, the "census" was a form of warranty for the state. If i give you an armour and you die in the first battle, i loose my investment. With census rules your assets could indemnify the Republica.
With Marian reform the warranty is only the stipendium, and the Republica accepts to loose money in equipment which will never refund in order to recruit more people.
I don't understand your English... and its Res Publica. That wasn't the name of the state either.
But how the fuck did they know Mars was red if the telescope wasn't invented yet?
They Call Me Vern Mars was the name of the Roman god of war, similar to Greek Ares.
Brendan Lewis Mars and Ares were the same i think because the romans copied the greek pantheon Although i am not sure
so did they name the planet mars after they discovered it was red?
br5ooksrwally No... people could observe with bare eyes that Mars was Red and even the Greeks were calling this planet Ares
They looked up and saw it.
@Metatron just a quick question, but how did you learn classic Latin and pronunciation? What’s the best way to learn?
This is one of the few channels I watch where I am willing to watch every ad.
05:43 Caesar wasn't wearing what we today call "purple", which can be seen in your images, he was wearing Tyrian purple, which is reddish-purple and is also called "Tyrian red".
Are you implying that blue was exclusive to naval forces ?
How about blue tunics of Tiberius Gracchus army in 2015 Jackie Chan's movie "Dragon Blade" ?
Oh and I really want to know more about the Roman's lost legion !!! PLZ !!!!
Not really implying it was exclusive, I'm only saying that Vegetius mentions naval only, but that doesn't mean other units chose blue considering it was cheap. ;)
what about tehe airforce?
Tim/Pol/ I just got a picture in my head of Roman soldiers launching each other out of catapults...
Very little is know of that army coz it was wiped from history so its said ! .
The Roman's lost legions Scotland one about an eagle , Germany dumb one of Varus , China .
The terrain best them in Germany tree all over the place not for unit fighting really same with Scotland tree and hills ! .
Roman solders was open filed fighting mostly the field of Mars field of battle ! .
So interesting! Thank you again.
I am learning so much from you.
I've been dyeing to know this information! XD Great video!
What do you personally think about how the Greek painted their sculptures compared to the romans who kept them raw white.
Jouri Wiemes The romans also had colors... Most of the colors went away because of how old it was. Pompeii had colors.
Some of the Roman statues of the wives of Emperors were made in such a way that the hair could be replaced as styles changed. You can rest assured that these beauties were properly colored at least until after her ladyship had be replaced.
I know c is pronounced like a k but it’s weird to my ears to hear Julius keye-sar
Excellent channel, I subscribed and recommend that you do so as well.
Nice video! i gotta say one thing, though! Many researchres believe today that it was "standard practice" for the "Legionarii" to COVER THEIR RIGHT HAND (the hand that held the gladius) AND FOREARM with some sort (or ANY sort) of protection, like layers of wool pressed together, binded with leather strings - something they got from the gladiators. Sticking out a short, stabbing sword from behind the scutum may have resulted in chopping your hand off or at least - in very heavy injuries to your hand and fore-arm-bones. ...and a wounded legionaire was NO "legionaire", so it would have been highly recommended, especially since the gladius didn't have any protections for the hands -not even a "cross-guard", so leather or wool&leather "protections" may have saved your ass in the battle.
...and THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS ALMOST NEVER SHOWN...
"All wight. I will give you one more chance. This time, I want to hear no 'Weuben's, no 'Weginald's, no 'Wudolph the Wed-nosed Weindeer's"
"Vewy well then I shall welease bwian"
Soldiers and officers wore red.
In hard dry land wore white.
Marines wore blue.
End.
Definitely one of my new favourite channels
Concerning the colors, I can’t remember if I read or heard in class that early on to get the royalty color of purple one of the key ingredients was urine...causing a very distinctive smell. Have you or anyone else heard of this to be true. Great channel, thank you.
I must know from where is the intro song
Theya Alexandru Peanci agreed I have absolutely love it
Theya Alexandru Peanci I believe he has made a dedicated video about this. Try searching in his chanel (:
jeharnes I will you noble one
+Theya Alexandru Peanci I had the same question not so long ago. He uses Knights Templar 1 and 2 by Johannas Bornlöf
Sultan Thx Sultan, I shall remember it
So they were called the RED army. *USSR anthem intensifies*
Ok,i'll get out.
Ironically no single Red Army soldier has ever worn any piece of cloth that was dyed red...
In Soviet Russia you don’t wear red.
Red wears you.
Wargamers try to be historically accurate but you are so right. Uniformity was not a military concept until relatively modern times. I just hate mixing tunic colors and armor types on the table top but, again, you are right. Very helpful, Metatron, and useful for historical gamers. Thank you. (And when it comes to dyes as late as WWII there was a wide variation of colors based on who made them) Cheers
Loved this video. Also one of the things I would have imagined is that colour would have also varied, especially in the Imperil times, depending on where in the empire you were stationed. Say for example being stationed in the hot deserts of Egypt, North Africa, and other hot parts of the empire such as Spain, Southern Italy, and Anatolia, I'd imagine lighter colours would be in demand to help fight off the sun, while in colder parts of the empire, say Britain, Southern Germania, and the various mountain regions of their territory the opposite would be true. Of course this is only me guessing, and odds are high that I am talking out my ass. Anyway, great video.
Joshua The Unready i guess it would have to do to where the troop came from, for example iberian warriors used a white tunic with a red line, numantians wore black cloaks of wool, so i guess it will make sense to romans adapt those clothings, because worked in that regiom, or because it was a tradition in the main land of that soldier
I'd especially imagine this if said soldiers were auxiliaries from the fringe provinces, turned into full Roman citizens after some time. They may keep to their homeland's clothing for sentiment's sake.
Joshua The Unready thats what i exactly mean :P
Basically, everybody keeps their security blankets. x3
Did you mean Polybius, or Plutarch?
I knew it couldn´t be Polybius so I was wondering who else it could have been. Plutarch seems like reasonable suggestion. Thanks.
It's Plutarch, The Life of Pompey, chapter 68
yeah I know, I was trying to hint to metatron but don't think he ever saw my message. Polybius lived a long time but not THAT long...
SPQR!
I have your profile picture as my wallpaper.
Is there a link to the painting that I could have?
Great video !
But we do know the Praetorian guards wore violet ? Don’t we ?
Could you make a video about the origin of camouflage used by the military ???
Also a Praetorian Vs Legionnaire?
In the battle of the Alesia siege, from the De Bello Gallico, Caesar reaches the first line of the battle, and the legionaries "recognising him from the crimson cloak" gather all around him.
...Just to share a clue from that book (assuming that I remember it correctly).