Relating hips to the turn, Upper body/lower body separation, group think, PSIA, more
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- čas přidán 22. 01. 2024
- 30 minute ZOOM call geeking out with NASTC founder/director Chris Fellows, Paul Mannelin adult manager Big Sky snowsports school and L4 coach, Zoe Mavis training director Big Sky resort and PSIA National team member
- Sport
Love this chat!💖 As an instructor I see how when people start carving they tend to want to angulate too fast, leading to countering the hips and losing contact with the outside ski.
Keeping the hips square to the skis from the top of the turn into the apex is a great pointer to keep the pressure where you want it. Awesome topic. Thanks!
This is a fantastic conversation on a topic that in my experience is sometimes overlooked by trainers. Too often we get lost in details like position of the hands or ankle movements. In all problems, we must first get the big pieces of the puzzle right. In skiing there is no bigger piece than the hips. This applies to any of the kinetic chain sports as Coop was referrin to as well: golf, boxing, tennis, bowling, etc. Getting the hips to move with full momentum through a tennis or golf swing is key to achieving smooth controlled power that cannot be obtained if you swing only with shoulder and arm. Another interesting way to feel the power of hip momentum is when simulating slalom turns on a bike. You will feel the exact same hip dynamics as a high speed carve turn, when you throw the bike from one leaned turn into the next without braking and go for broke on the bike angle. The squareness of the hips to the direction of the momentum in all these applications is critical and logical. Misalign the hips through your tennis swing and your ball will have no power and direction. Get it right and you will produce a heavy, quality ball. Likewise, exting the turn in a clean straight line requires you to point the hips accurately and timely, the rest almost follows automatically if you just relax the feet and legs and let the hips carry the speed into the transition. Soft feet are fast feet, like in tennis the wrist and arm must not be tense. The core must not relax as it needs to bring the big upper body along for the ride. For me hips are definitely part of lower body. Legs and feet push from the ground to control the hip position. On top sits the core that carries the upper body, which can easily pull the hips out of the ideal line and cause a dirty exit or even a fall if the core fails to control it. That's maybe another big puzzle piece that is sometimes overlooked. Thanks again for your inspiring content that has really helped me organize my own narrative about what the hell is going on. Traders be like don't fight the fed, skiërs be like don't fight physics❤
Awesome!!
Every time I watch a video with Deb I can’t wait to get back out and implement what she is teaching. #NeverStopLearning
Critical analysis, independent thinking - OMG I love this Deb!!! ❤
Ha!!!💪💪👍😘
Didn't really mention how much FUN it it to feel the power of the hip. Thanks for bringing this out.
Great dialogue and exploration! Love the power of hip extension to square!
Great talk as always! Was out the other day and worked on carved turnes and having the hip not dropping behind, more square, giving more power to the outside ski in the turn. Then at the end of the day, I skied some bumps and as I trained to square my hips this I did in the bumps too. And gosh, what a great feeling! Just feeling in very good balance and the range of motion I could get.
Discussions about hip position is very interesting. So much of what happens and what can happen to a turn are based on hip position. Good stuff.
Ok, just finished watching this whole video and the Cooper Puckett one. What I'm feeling right now, honestly, is pride. I am incredibly proud of the snowsports coaching world that I belong to because we are able to have really open and honest discussions like this. Thank you to Deb Armstrong for being the leader that you are and challenging us to think and explore. And #respect to the Big Sky ski school for hosting this discussion with Deb. As someone who is on that Alpine 3 journey currently, I have felt the pain of taking things too literally in my learning process. I commented a while ago on one of Deb's videos asking about "ankle flexion" because I had failed an Alpine 2 exam and the feedback I got from the examiners was "too much ankle flexion." I got no feedback on the ski/snow interaction. Just body position. I then spent the next two years trying to learn to ski with open ankles. And my skiing got worse. I just finished a Precision Skiing 301 class with Francis Do (incredible teacher) and he noticed my misunderstanding and corrected it. My point is, it sounds like we are going away from coaching specific body positions and are instead focusing on how we affect ski/snow interaction. And I think that's an incredible step forward. If we, as instructors, understand the goal ... what the ski should be doing through the arc of the turn, and we have some movement patterns we can teach to accomplish that goal, I think all of this will become less of a mystery. If you say to me, Michael, I want you to bend the front of your outside ski at initiation. How would you do that? Well here's a way. Here's another way. Which way is better? Is one way better on groomed terrain? Is another way better in crud, pow, bumps? Really really good stuff. I'm excited to see where this goes. Keep up the good work Deb.
Awesome comment
And what a treat to see Chris & Jenny Fellows in the dialogue too! :)
Hi Rudy😉
Sovereign Thinking = BOOOOM!!! 💯💥💥💥
Hi, Deb! Great content! 🙏 You mentioned in one of your vids that you once had a student with stiff ankles and you found a way around it with tinkering with boots? I have a permanently stiff anke after injury. I try to compensate it with rising the heel with a pad under it. But it's not the best solution... If you have some insight what to do - I'd be very grateful! ⛷
Two thumbs up Deb! "Independant thinkers vs. dependent followers"
Here is something I noticed, watching some downhill runs and racers the past few weeks is that on some of the turns the racers are actually making their turn, which is high-speed on their inside ski,and dropping their hip on the inside ski and driving it leaves them no room for absorption when they hit a rut or unexpected change in the texture of the train ejecting them into a airborne catastrophe, just a sidenote😊
they flex insaide down to recenter from edged skis to flat skis to accelerate out of turn down fall laine not on edged skis on daiagnol.
The hips are the flexible coupling between the upper and lower body.
Nice!!!!!!
Sweet glasses!
Independent thinker here.... it's hard to explain our thought process to others!
I wish more coaches would talk about pelvic bone tilting / hip leveling. For my skiing, this is more important than any other hip movement, and it seems like it is not talked about much. It seems like everyone talks about not over angulating (hips to the side / inside the turn) or not hip dumping (twisting the hips in, which results in too much early counter) but no one talks about how much hiking the inside hip (tilting the pelvic bone) impacts the pressure distribution on the BOTTOM OF THE LOADED FOOT. Also, if you actively tilt your pelvic bone, it becomes almost mandatory to keep your hips square to the skis (direction of travel). It is really hard to make those other mistakes everyone worries about when you ACTIVELY hip level. So why not stop talking about those other things, and just teach skiers to actively raise their inside hip (tilt their pelvic bone) to start the turn? The pelvic bone and the skis form the short sides of a long parallelogram, and the legs form the lond sides. Want to tip your skis to start the turn, then tilt your pelvic bone. You can not do one without the other.
See here: czcams.com/video/DG_Dg7_NIt0/video.html
Watch 0:15-0:25 with Mikaela doing those pelvic bone "tilt switches" down the fall line. This perfectly illustrates how the pelvic bone and ski angles are completely tied together. It also shows how pellvic bone tilting requires you to stay square to the direciton of ski travel.
And here: czcams.com/video/ynNRGUaYQkM/video.html
Why was Mikaela practicing this motion so actively? I have never seen anyone else show a drill like this....or even talk about it much. Deb talked about it her video to her credit, but even then it was not really discussed as an active motion, more a complimentary one.
I love you added my video link🤣😉😉 thank for the comment
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong so what are your thoughts on pelvic bone tilting as an ACTIVE motion? In other words, feeling yourself RAISE the inside hip...like MS was doing in that vid? This requires the Gluteus Medius muscle to be active and strong.
I was REALLY struggling with my turn initiation on 30m GS skis with my left leg (right turn). I would try to ski exactly the same right to left, but the left ski would just NOT TURN...especially at lower speeds with less load to bend the ski. Coaches were telling me I was leaning in too much, and falling onto the inside ski. I could not find the root issue.
After watching that MS vid, I started ACTIVELY trying to hike my inside hip, and suddenly I could start my right turn. I could balance/stack over my outside ski. Then I recalled an injury I had decades ago. I tore a bunch of muscles in my lower back, any my pelvic bone will not "tilt" as much in one direction due to scar tissue. This was the underlying reason my turn initiation was poor on right turns I can over some this by ACTIVELY raising the inside of my pelvic bone, tilting the whole thing. When I do this, I can FEEL the pressure distribution on the bottom of my foot radically change to the inside / arch.
Then I started wondering, how many athletes are labeled as "less talented" simply because their pelvic bone will not tilt as much, or their gluteus medius muscles are not as strong, which limits their ability to tip the skis on edge, and no coach tells them...."hey...try actively raising your inside hip up!".
You can also watch Brandon Dyksterhouses "free skiing drills" video, and he is doing strongly carved Javelin turns in the second half of the video. You can see that these are enabled though strong active hip hiking. In fact, carved Javelin turns are really hard unless you actively hip hike, which makes them EASY.... ACTIVE hip leveling / pelvic bone tilt just seems like something that is not talked about.
This is interesting but I don’t agree with keeping the hips square through the control phase of the turn. I just watched Odermatt &Feller in the last GS and they both have an inside lead through the turn. They are square in the transition for sure. As in the interview the other day with the coach he said generating the inside lead does something. At turn initiation and it aligns the center of mass with the base of support.
I think the confusion you saw in those trying out for their team is due to the Stepping Stone Model. Yes, we need a Centerline 2.0.
Talk with Cooper Puckett about it😉😉 remember, the inside ski, knee lead through the turn as a result of flexion, that comes for free, and they are independent of the hips. All concepts to ponder. I certainly feel the balance and power that comes from a squaring off the hips through the turn. it’s difficult to deny something that has a positive effect.
nonnsens@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong
A little clarification. Do you mean square with the direction of travel or square with the line across the tips of the skis?
Folks are confused in this regard. The inside tip leads because the uphill knee is bent. It’s impossible for the uphill knee to be bent and not have the uphill ski lead yet that is entirely independent of the hips. The hips can be rotated or countered with uphill tip lead.
I am referring to the hips being square with the shaping of the arc, square with the skis, and yes, there is tip tip lead, the degree of tip lead depends on how much the knee is bent, also remember to maintain ankle flexion with that inside foot😉
OK. Thanks.
"Free your mind and your ass* will follow!" *hips in this case!
Ha!
23:55 When did PSIA remove pivot slip assessments from their exams?
I don’t know and it may depend on the division
Was this inspired by another of Deb's videos? And if so, can someone drop a link?
Was it this one? czcams.com/video/HBZ_ej8p82Q/video.html
Yes
The best thing I heard is “this is not fixed”!
Not a fan of the topic huh😉
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong I was referring to the fact that you are "pushing back" a little bit, in a good way! I love that!!!
@@artfunamori4442 ah, got it😉👍💪
Hey Deb, what is a "cat walk?"
A return trail, a flat road
Some people call it a “cat track.” It’s the “road” that the grooming equipment and other tracked utility vehicles use to get to different parts of the trail system. They’re found along ridge-lines, the bottom of trails and diagonally across long trails. The grade of the cat track is usually a pretty gentle slope and may be as narrow as one groomer’s track.
How do you relate your Josh Fogg equal ankle flexion video to bringing the hip square which will flex the outside ankle more when in a deep inclined angulated carved turn?
Ya, good question. I’m not smart enough to answer that here however when I ski it I have an independence of movement through the hips, a separation of sorts that allows for the squaring up I’m taking about. I skied it even more today with my rotary action and it also felt strong. It gave my core an entirely new kind of work out but my connectedness with the ski through all shaping was sweet.
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrongI’m thinking this… the equal ankle flexion is the basis for most of what we do and teach and the hip action from this video is a higher level law for those who are ready to experiment with it!
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong”Independence of movement”. So key! Not stuck but balanced enough to play with it!!!!
@@davidbeazer9799 sounds good to me David😉
Ultimately the skis are raced. And each racer is on a quest to discover what works best for them to go fast. Now go shred some boo.
Define square. Square to the ski or bottom of the hill.
Good question. Square to skis, direction skis are traveling through the arc
So parallel to the ski plane is the same as square?
@@alanbrown5802 I don’t fully understand your question sorry. This can be tricky describing important specifics over a text. I’m not good enough at it
Square is having your shoulders follow your ski tips.
Square is having no shoulder rotation when turning. Dropping your hip in a turn allows you to stay on your upper ski traversing.
Is Tommy Kirchhoff verboten?
??? Not following you, sorry
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Hi Deb - posted several comments referencing Tommy Kirchhoff...not affiliated with Tommy>>> CURIOUS ABOUT HIPS!!... he's presented his ideas on "waist steering".. and the overlap of his skiing with his study of tai chi.
The comments I posted in last 2 days referencing Tommy seem to keep disappearing.
● Tommy is an *independent thinker*.
● Gets a bit heated defending his explorations from skeptics.
● Does not have "high production values" in presenting his ideas.
That said...his explorations are right in the core of this conversation.
I LOVE your discussion/videos with Wilson about shortening the radius/driving the Inside Leg/Knee...also love your image of pushing a stuck car out of a rut...outside ski slightly back..leg flexed, knee forward, shin on the front of the boot, shovel biting...awesome channel.
Tommy original called his studyb" waist steering"...he seems now to have re- branded his ideas as
"race steering"...
"Is Ted Ligety Race Steering?" - youtube
m.czcams.com/video/PWv-PYEigSU/video.html&pp=ygUdSXMgdGVkIGxpZ2V0eSB3YWlzdCBzdGVlcmluZz8%3D
@@billtanch8273 thanks for the comment. I have not seen any of your other comments. Sorry
angulate is inclained legs hips insaide of turn durning laterl without flexing ankles knees to advance insaide hip ski dumping upper body uphill hip down meaning angulate legs hipsup hill upper body down hill seperadet waist not flexed knees