Boot fitting for the advanced, expert skier, considerations
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- čas přidán 28. 11. 2023
- Deb gets fitted in new boots. Covered - softening a boot, delta angle, zipfit vs a race liner, supination and pronation of the ankle, grip walk sole, articulation of the ankle in a boot
- Sport
Wow. The two videos you and Amanda have done on boots are excellent. Having finally found a boot fitter who can deal with my "problem" feet has been an adventure. What's even rarer is finding a boot fitter and a coach who can explain to a skier the relationship between boot stiffness and ramp/delta angle, and how to acheive what is necessary for that individual's body. I'm still shocked at how that knowledge is not more widespread in our sport.
Warren Witherell said the same around 1973 in his book How the Racers Ski. Alignment assessments are shown in pretty good ('73 era photos) demonstrative images, before and after alignment. His 2d book, The Athletic Skier, goes into similar assessments. Harald Harb's PMTS system emphasizes alignment as well. PSIA doesn't emphasize it as heavily but good PSIA pros know it's part of the toolbox.
Bootfitters who know alignment are pretty rare and if you find one that's who you should use! Folks who live near Amanda's shop would be lucky to have her as a resource. Brent Amsbury in Park City UT is very good, I can say from personal experience. So is Bud Heishman in Reno NV, I had Bud do some work for me a long time ago.
Most shops cater to recreational skiers who have a very recreational, leisurely approach to skiing. Even if alignment would benefit their improvement goals, they may not even have improvement goals. I know many, many skiers like that.
I actually worked with Bud at Footloose in Mammoth, back in the mid-80's, and had him do canting for me when his shop was at the GSR(?) I was able to work with a coach who is a PSIA examiner, some years ago, who with folded up trailmaps stuck under my boot toes, opened my eyes to the effects of delta angle.
@@1raceskier Bud was one of the coaches at the Epic Ski Academy in 2005 at Big Sky, he had his whole boot planing etc setup with him. He wasn't my coach -- that was Roger Kane from WI. Roger Dx'd my alignment with tape strips put between boot and AFD, then Bud did the boot work. Totally changed my skiing, my natural leg posture is little toe edge dominant by a huge margin, and it's nearly impossible to get any reasonable angle on the big toe side. Finding neutral is almost impossible. But canted flat, I can turn at will from nearly any posture.
I'd had alignment done in the mid 80s with cants between boot & binding, but then took 15 yrs off skiing and when I started back, I thought I'd try w/o alignment. I suffered for a couple seasons until Ric and Bud fixed things in 2005.
On ramp angle & delta, I discovered that at ESA 2004, we had video footage of me on 2 different setups, one with a flatter binding and one with more delta. Doing the same drills, we did them before & after lunch and I swapped setups at lunch out of curiosity. The whole team of coaches watched the vids and commented on what they saw, and 3 of them said "look at that difference!" in one way or another. Since then I've stuck with the same bindings that gave me a more neutral stance. Slightly heel-high works for me.
Within the boot, the ramp angle is yet another factor. Between the two, some enjoy that "gas pedal" sensation from a flat or slightly toe-high stance within the boot.
Wow, a 140 flex for CO snow would be too stiff for me. The key takeaway is that boot fitting is an iterative process -- you need to ski and refit a couple of times to dial it in. Expert boot fitters like Amanda are rare and worth every penny.
I just bought a pair of boots from them last week. I am super happy with them😀. Really awesome bootfitters.
This lady is AMAZING in boot fitting. I wish we had someone like this is PA
A good boot fitting makes a huge difference in your skiing ability. Last year season I used boot I bought which were not the right size and they were not fitting me right and I struggled so much. This season I got new boots which were properly fitting. Drivig your skis with your big toes is amazing.
omg!! I knew there was a difference with the grip walk boots!! thx for this!
Brilliant and informative.
Thats my dream boot, Deb. Looks great on you!
Love it!!!
Deb and Amanda, thanks for these videos. As a passionate bootfitter in Denver, I look forward to meeting Amanda some day. For the skier who is serious about ski boots, these two videos are a must.
Coincidentally, I had a skier from the Philly area come into the shop this week for new boots and learned she has participated in many of Deb's women's clinics (pre-COVID). She was blown away with the progression of ski boots since her last purchase 10 years ago. I also pulled her existing footbeds (custom insoles), assessed their integrity and never suggested making new ones. Come to find out, she likely had the footbeds made at Ski & Bike Kare during a visit to Steamboat some years ago.
I also had fun sharing my enthusiasm for the many ski instructional videos @DebArmstrongSkiStrong has produced. As an aging skier who would like to continue to drop into steep bowls and enjoy Steamboat Powdercats level 3 trips, I decided a few years ago to really critique and improve my fundamental skills. Thanks, Deb, for helping my continue to enjoy skiing and get after it on the slopes.
Thanks for the comment
Great video. Deb please do a video on these boots. I'd love to hear your impressions of a Rec Race boot vs your plug boots.
Excellent video, I found the conversation on delta angle very interesting. I have been using aftermarket Zipfit liners for years, For the recreational skier, I think they’re wonderful. They can take a couple of days to really adjust to your feet, even after an initial fitting. Not only can you add more material to the liner but you can actually take some out if need be. If the material is warm, you can actually adjust areas by working the material with your hands. I will say this, after fitting and skiing a couple of days on them, my heel is totally locked in and they are warm. As always thanks for the info. Regards
If nothing else, thank you for the verification that there’s an angle difference with the Grip Walk soles. My Nordicas came with GW installed and Alpine in the box. Something felt off until I switched to the Alpine. It’s all good now. Sketchier in the parking lot but better on the hill.
Deb, I love that woman😍 I'm so impressed with her knowledge of the equipment. Always your videos are so easy to understand them, good job. Thank you, indeed.
Hope you have a great season. I stayed in South America till next winter. Cheers from Chile 🇨🇱
Thanks for the comment!!!!
That's what I feel, too. I feel my feet are EVERYTHING and my hips, shoulders, knees and thighs are just sorta following their 'instructions". I dont know anything about this sport...but what you just said about the feet being the locus of all body movements is what I feel out there. I am VERY pleased with my Nordica Enforcers (I cannot recommend those things with adequate enthusiasm....provided, of course, you have the leg strength to make two sheets of metal do what they should). Also this week, I figured out what to do with your tips in moguls. Tips seem to be a very important part of the ski in lumpy terrain and moguls. Im almost to where I can make those Enforcers behave like springs in the mounds. Now that I figured out what tips can do, I no longer hunt a line through the mounds, I look for ways to make them into trampolines. It's SO awesome taking a line for about 15 yards then launching from one mound to the nextt....hippity-hopping along. Thats whats great about ski ing. It doesnt hurt at all to fall if youre in 'football mode'. Wanna know the secret of delivering spine crumpling pain in others in football without yourself feeling any pain? In fact, this lil secret they teach boys in pop warmer football (like pre teen) is the key to ALL contact sports. 1) square your shoulders at your target 2) get MEAN! 3) fully and completely commit to that impact....you gotta WANT it! 4) hit 'through' the target not at the target. 5) lower your helmet amd almost 'hope' (but not really) that you break neck...like every hit is your last.
And magically, it works. You not only feel NO pain, you feel an exhilaration Ive only found since then in skiing. But, lol, they prolly dont coach that way anymore. Our coach used to tell us that if you dont see stars (those lil flashes from minor brain injury), youre not really hitting. But we did win a lot of state championships. You may know a very dear friend of mine. Dr. Tim Greene (from Ga). He did his residency at Vail and was the US Olympic team orthopedic Dr for a while. He was captain of Princeton's football team. Tim was a good hitter. He's now an excellent skier. He lives in Greenwich now, tho.
THIS is a most excellent video. Every time I tell a boot fitter I don't want grip walk they try to convince me there's no difference, clearly when standing I immediately feel the difference. We need more people like this woman who understand. We need people like you and this boot fitter to work together to convince the industry what top level skiers really need based on their skiing, not what the boot companies dictate to us what they think we need, because they're not right.
Yes, the .01% like Deb who are olympic ski racers can probably say they feel a difference in GW. For the other 99.99% it’s the better option IMO.
Great videos as always Deb. You always bring on great guest stars. I'm curious how Deb Armstrong, an elite skier for the majority of her life, has dealt with changing and advancing ski and boot technology since you broke on to the world ski scene as a 17 year old. Do you ever dig out an old set of gear Lange (from the shin bang era) and a pair of 200cm straight Atomics and go for a rip or do you leave the nostalgia in the shed?
Thanks for this video, I just noticed both of my flex screws are removed from my boots!
Deb - I got myself a pair of RC4 Pro LV boots for this season so it’s cool to see someone like you looking at this design! I plan to tinker with them as needed but I took out the spoilers and the boot felt much better for my anatomy. I didn’t feel quite as locked in a forward position but still plenty snug. Excited to actually ski them and see if anything else needs adjusted. I am a heavy strong skier and at times was feeling like I was over flexing my 120s, so we’ll see if I can benefit from this 140 flex…fingers crossed.
Awesome!!
Love the hair Deb!
Ha!!!!!!! Really. Thank you😉
Thanks Deb & Amanda.
That corkflo around the ankle of the Fischer liner is very nice, don't have to get a ZipFit.
That inside ankle articulation -- seems to me that if the boot won't give you that, if you can't be in balance on a flexed inside ankle, then your inside hip is held back, timing wise. This opens up the turn, so it's counter productive. Am I correct on that?
Awesome to see this sequel. Looking forward to the result after first run, after you get your race plates. I so wish I had this level of boot fitter where I am. A question, if you don’t mind. Who do you think benefits from boot lifters (I’m not sure it’s is the right word for the plates 3 or 5 mm people put on the sole of the boots)?
@Deb nice video thx...so how are these zipfits on the snow?
Deb, if you're taking requests, more of this content please, talk about performance vs recreation retail gear and the retail race gear vs FIS race gear maybe add in the pros and cons of used race gear particularly as it pertains to the junior races. New gear is well new gear but with youth racers they are way more likely to outgrow gear before they wear it out so the used market is vast if you know what to look for. Thanks
I hate to keep bugging you, Deb. But this boot issue is particularly vexing for me. Believe it or not, I have a 113mm wide foot at the ball. Im not flat footed. High arches, in fact. To complicate matters, Im not a hefty framed guy (183cm and 175lbs). So i get slop in my shin area and an unpleasant squeeze at the ball of my feet. But, Deb, I am ripping it up! Pell mell to hell out there! We, very sadly, have a massive rainstorm coming sunday which will destroy every resort in new england for at least a week. But what a week we just had! I need lessons. I REALLY wanna level up
😊
Another great video. I've been teaching 14 years, and I still learn so much watching your videos. A good boot fitter is worth their weight in gold. The best thing you can do for yourself as a skier is to find a boot fitter you can trust and stick with them. I'm really interested to see how the boa boots are received in their inaugural season of wide spread availability. I'm going to stick it out one more year (the 5th) in my current boots, which I've got locked in pretty well now. I'm hoping for more options next season. I don't think there is a good high performance boa boot for a wider last and higher volume lower leg, which I require. One thing not addressed in the video, is canting. Would have been nice to see it at least talked about, even if you didn't need it.
I know very little about canting as I have never used any canting. Better to find that info from someone who knows more than I do
Deb, everything you do with the channel is incredibly inspiring! I love it!
Did you replace the griwalk sole at the end? Another point to note is that, in theory, you shouldn't use gripwalk soles on non-gripwalk bindings.
Yes I did replace the grip walk
Deb, how long you use pair your ski boots?
It depends on a lot but generally from 2-4 years ish.
How can one tell if a boot is too stiff and should be softened? I have been feeling like my boot is too stiff, but my bootfitter has looked at it multiple times and in the shop disagrees that I am not flexing the boot appropriately. I know anatomically there are reasons he wants to use the stiffness to hold my knee back as well..
I have been working most in bumps and tree skiing.. and just wonder if a little less stiffness would feel better off piste.
It doesn’t sound like the boot fitter is listening to you at all! If you can’t “flex the boot properly” (weird comment) in the shop how will you in the slope? Listen to your instinct. Sounds like you need a new boot fitter.
You should be able to flex the knees just past the toe. Often the OEM power strap gives the impression of a hard stop to the flex of the boot. Substituting this for an elastic Booster strap can work wonders, offering a more progressive, softer feeling flex.
You don't change to fit the the boot, the boot is modified to fit you (and your style).
@@Benzknees yes I do have a booster strap installed, and agree that this does feel better than the original power strap. Just still really stiff.
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong thank you! I will be in Steamboat in January, perhaps i will go pay Amanda a visit for an assessment.
So by now, I’m sure you have skied on your new Fischers with this Zipfit liner. What do you think? We’re all dying to know
Ok, have taken about 8 runs on the new zipfits today. I like them, I can not say I am in love with them. I realize they will need to break in some. Keep in mind, I am accustomed to my race liner. It’s the margins of foot articulation that I don’t feel I can access yet in the zipfit. By margins I mean the final degrees of movement, touch, savvy that I like. I am just a bit locked. As the zipfits break in this may change.
yes, the inside ski ankle flexion does feed back to the outside ski. referencing your previous video, josh talked about the austrian concept of "communication with snow", that requires some ankle flexion and forefoot volume. so, imo at least, the old performance concept of super stiff boots, and feet crammed into too small boots, that traumatized the racer is dead.....120
What is the best time of the day to have a boot fitting, morning or afternoon?
Are you a morning or an afternoon person 😉🤣 not sure if it makes a difference
Oh I heard different thoughts on your feet being swollen in the morning or shrinking in the afternoon from compression in the boots. @@DebArmstrongSkiStrong
I think those bladders are Zip Fit ...
The Boa is a solution to a problem that really doesn't exist; especially with a shell and liner fit for their purposes. Running it to the toe is nonsense given the toe buckle's function is to keep snow out. The real point is that this 'nice example' of an expert boot costs $1400US; or $1800Cdn; before any grinds or punches. And in the flex-realm of 140 boots; these are likely.
Really saavy lady boot fitter
Bought the same online
She should créera her CZcams channel
Ya she should!!