I've always had problems using push saws, struggled with them for 30 years, got my first Japanese pull saw three years ago and after one use I gave away all my western saws, I finally found a saw that seemed like it didn't want to fight me every single step of the way, I'm not an emotional man but I could have cried.
To the point and very helpful. I had relegated my western-style rip saw and even crosscut saw to wall decorations and relied entirely on power saws. I had never bought a western style dovetail saw, used band saw or table saw to cut dovetails. Based on your advice I bought a dozuki and a ryoba. What a revelation! They are so sharp and fast cutting even in white oak and walnut, and leave narrow kerfs. Now I don't mind cutting a few dovetails and even doing a bit of ripping by hand. Thanks, Tom.
As a kid I always thought it would be better to have a saw that worked when pulling back, and I didn't understand why they only worked on the push. The first time I used a Japanese I knew that I found the perfect saw for me.
You hit the nail right on the head. It's not really the ease of use but it is about the engineering standards of the makers. If the Japanese were making the push saws I doubt whether we would see much difference in the quality of the cut or the ease of use. Japanese saws are built to last because they take pride in tools.
Japanese ones are good for delicate work and are as sharp as they for clean cuts in softwoods which the japanese mainly use. For bigger cuts though western ones can be worked harder without worrying about the blade binding and then bending your blade. Personally I like the a full handle grip more than the shaft of japanese though I don't doubt you can achieve accurate cuts with either.
Can you elaborate on your comment about working the blade harder without binding and then binding the blade? How do you bind and bend a blade on a pull saw more easily than a push saw? It seems to me like the binding should be the same and if anything the pushing action is more likely to bend a bound blade than pulling (like a rope).
Thank you for your great demonstration video. It's very easy to understand the difference between the Japanese and Western handsaws by watching your video.
Most western hand saws are push/pull with straight teeth. If anyone uses a push saw they are borderline retarded... lol.. Push/Pull is the best overall because a good saw and good technique wont cause binding. For cheap saws you want to just pull though. Also.. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-man_saw Westerners have used pull saws since the 15th century.... Two man pull saws are very common for cutting down trees as a push saw would bind ALOT doing this. Kinda annoying when you see "Carpenters" talking about western and eastern saws when they do not mention the fact that pull saws are not an eastern thing they are just a saw thing and have been used all around the world not just in the east. "The handsaw was used in Egypt as far back as 1500 B.C. It had a broad blade, some as long as 20 inches, curved wooden handles, and irregular metal teeth. Since the blades were copper, a soft metal, they had to be pulled, not pushed. Because the carpenter could not bear down on the cutting stroke, sawing wood must have been a slow, tedious process." journeymansjournel.wordpress.com/2016/11/27/ancient-tools-history-of-woodworking/ Pull saws are just the better saw and they are not inherently eastern unless you consider 1500bc Egypt to be Asia. Also check this out czcams.com/video/Oxq1gCxICmY/video.html The history of tools we use is amazing and changed as the cultures changed
Oddly we have a sharpening service that will do hand saws that comes through my local woodworking store a couple times a week. I'm new to woodworking so not sure if that is a rarity. Doesn't really matter I picked up a pull saw and very much prefer it.
Logic dictates that pulling a blade is just better for cutting as it puts the blade under tension which strengthens it whilst the pushing literally causes the blade to want to bend.
Hi, just found you and subbed. I've been hearing a lot about the Japanese saws lately and would like to get a few. Could you possibly recommend brands and maybe sources to order from? I would prefer to buy on recommendation from experienced people than trial and error.
I prefer Western saws because of their ability to BE sharpened. It is a quickly acquired skill and makes a carpenter just way more self reliant. If you love be in a little village in the middle of nowhere how do you get spare Japanese blades whereas you can sharpen your own Western saws
I have to disagree with your conclusions. a saw I can buy once and sharpen myself whenever I need to refine my edge is worth more to me than a throwaway blade I might have to wait a week for a new blade to arrive. Cutting on the push allows me to follow my marking lines that are visible giving me greater control where the saw cuts. The kerf on both saws seemed about the same, you just showed the back side where a push saw has the fibers come out, flip that board around and I bet the push saw cut looks just as good. Try an old Disston D8 that you yourself have sharpened and tell me Its not as good. Sure you might need a magnifying glass if your as old as Tom to sharpen, but is that worth buying a new saw every time it gets dull? The west tended towards better ideas because there was more competition, whether woodworking or swords. Check out Paul Sellers if you want another masters opinion. Have a great day and keep making beautiful things!!!
on the cutting straight comment, it is already been proven that on the pull a cut is straighter. you are simply use to using your Western saw, that is a product of practice not nature (as is with the pull). on the sharpening comment, more people still have the very same blade years later on their Japanese saws. under certain situations the edge could go to a Western saw, however because you can sharpen them I am pretty sure there are more wrecked saws of this type. West tended towards better ideas, Japan is pretty much the holy land of woodworking, all wooden structures have far surpassed those of the West. Japan was still pretty much traditional carpentry until WWII, with which allowed simple fire bombing air raids to take place. Swords? Come now Japan also takes this crown as craftsmanship (folded steel) and functionality were of the highest importance to bladesmithing.
Andrew McAlpin pull saws generally are much more accurate, however you can't deny the fact that everyone in this trade has different styles and preferences. And on the sharpening vs buying a new blade, keep in mind Japanese tools are always very high quality, especially when it comes to blades. The Japanese have most certainly perfected the art of blade making, and whether it's a knife, plane, or saw, it'll last for quite a while.
Are we going to address the elephant in the room? Stop making push saws. They are inferior in every way. Perhaps for 'large' lumber in certain circumstances..even then I hear lumberjacks saying they prefer pull saws. I have continually searched for the benefit of push saws and have yet to find it. ..Except they can be sharpened. Good luck sharpening your 150 tooth framing saw that you despise. It can be sharpened because it will need to be! And the inferior steel can be sharpened. Ever since I used a western push saw when I was about 7 years old, I have despised them. First cut with a pull saw(think garden 'green' saw) and I never looked back. Western culture/tradition is laughable. I'm proud to not say I'm a proud American! We are dumber than a crate of push saws:)
I can sharpen my saw in 10 minutes. Can japan ship a new blade to rural America in a shorter time frame? When you've got your work on a low sawhorse and you're pulling both the work and your body up with each stroke, your back will thank you for moving to a push saw. Grandpas rusty framing saw in a 7 year old's hands probably couldn't cut through butter. Both my hand sharpened western panel saws cut faster than my new ryoba even without adding any downward pressure. Quality of a saw matters in the east and west
@@cheetoman23 Hi CheetoMan, that is an interesting insight...however, I don't understand why you would be "pulling the work..."..please explain. As far as sharpening, large pull saw teeth could just as easily be sharpened as a push saw teeth. You can't compare a tiny Japanese pull saw with complex teeth, to grandpas push saw with large teeth... But I do see a possible advantage with using body weight to push down through lumber on larger wood..that makes sense. So let's agree that push saw is beneficial when cutting through large boards👍 ..so in THIS case, cheeto man is not lying😉
I've always had problems using push saws, struggled with them for 30 years, got my first Japanese pull saw three years ago and after one use I gave away all my western saws, I finally found a saw that seemed like it didn't want to fight me every single step of the way, I'm not an emotional man but I could have cried.
To the point and very helpful. I had relegated my western-style rip saw and even crosscut saw to wall decorations and relied entirely on power saws. I had never bought a western style dovetail saw, used band saw or table saw to cut dovetails. Based on your advice I bought a dozuki and a ryoba. What a revelation! They are so sharp and fast cutting even in white oak and walnut, and leave narrow kerfs. Now I don't mind cutting a few dovetails and even doing a bit of ripping by hand. Thanks, Tom.
As a kid I always thought it would be better to have a saw that worked when pulling back, and I didn't understand why they only worked on the push. The first time I used a Japanese I knew that I found the perfect saw for me.
I just saw your comment after I commented. Love it!
Rockin the Bernie Sanders windstorm hairdo.
I can't watch this without looking at it
Much respect tho sir I appreciate your work!
@@radish8742 I was born with it.
Very good explanation on the difference between Japanese and Western handsaws from professional view.
thanks for the info it really helped me
Many thanks for this clear description!
You hit the nail right on the head. It's not really the ease of use but it is about the engineering standards of the makers.
If the Japanese were making the push saws I doubt whether we would see much difference in the quality of the cut or the ease of use.
Japanese saws are built to last because they take pride in tools.
lol fucking what..
Japanese ones are good for delicate work and are as sharp as they for clean cuts in softwoods which the japanese mainly use.
For bigger cuts though western ones can be worked harder without worrying about the blade binding and then bending your blade.
Personally I like the a full handle grip more than the shaft of japanese though I don't doubt you can achieve accurate cuts with either.
Can you elaborate on your comment about working the blade harder without binding and then binding the blade? How do you bind and bend a blade on a pull saw more easily than a push saw? It seems to me like the binding should be the same and if anything the pushing action is more likely to bend a bound blade than pulling (like a rope).
Thank you for your great demonstration video. It's very easy to understand the difference between the Japanese and Western handsaws by watching your video.
Most western hand saws are push/pull with straight teeth.
If anyone uses a push saw they are borderline retarded... lol..
Push/Pull is the best overall because a good saw and good technique wont cause binding.
For cheap saws you want to just pull though.
Also..
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-man_saw
Westerners have used pull saws since the 15th century.... Two man pull saws are very common for cutting down trees as a push saw would bind ALOT doing this.
Kinda annoying when you see "Carpenters" talking about western and eastern saws when they do not mention the fact that pull saws are not an eastern thing they are just a saw thing and have been used all around the world not just in the east.
"The handsaw was used in Egypt as far back as 1500 B.C. It had a broad blade, some as long as 20 inches, curved wooden handles, and irregular metal teeth. Since the blades were copper, a soft metal, they had to be pulled, not pushed. Because the carpenter could not bear down on the cutting stroke, sawing wood must have been a slow, tedious process."
journeymansjournel.wordpress.com/2016/11/27/ancient-tools-history-of-woodworking/
Pull saws are just the better saw and they are not inherently eastern unless you consider 1500bc Egypt to be Asia.
Also check this out
czcams.com/video/Oxq1gCxICmY/video.html
The history of tools we use is amazing and changed as the cultures changed
Excellent video! Thanks!
Blades get straight when tensed, curved when compressed.
just purchased my first Ryobe and found it very difficult to cut a straight line and even a straight cut. Any tips other than just lots of practice?
I have tried Japanese saws and got me I hate the feel of the handles
I'm happy to know that...Thankyou
Oddly we have a sharpening service that will do hand saws that comes through my local woodworking store a couple times a week. I'm new to woodworking so not sure if that is a rarity. Doesn't really matter I picked up a pull saw and very much prefer it.
Logic dictates that pulling a blade is just better for cutting as it puts the blade under tension which strengthens it whilst the pushing literally causes the blade to want to bend.
0:06 I love you
Its hard to find original japanese ryoba saw here, lot of chinese brand but it sharp and really handy enough
I am left handed I prefer pull saw
All saws should cut on the pull stroke. :D
I hate hand saws so much I can't remember the last time I used one (years). I'm getting a Japanese saw to try.
Thanks.
Hi, just found you and subbed. I've been hearing a lot about the Japanese saws lately and would like to get a few. Could you possibly recommend brands and maybe sources to order from? I would prefer to buy on recommendation from experienced people than trial and error.
The Self Sufficient Life Did you ever find out what brands you like?
I prefer Western saws because of their ability to BE sharpened. It is a quickly acquired skill and makes a carpenter just way more self reliant. If you love be in a little village in the middle of nowhere how do you get spare Japanese blades whereas you can sharpen your own Western saws
I just saw this video about saws
The Japanese really now their blades....
“I too will something make and glory in the making” - wtf?
Above your mental pay grade huh.
I'd rather have a saw that I could sharpen myself.
Push saw = When you have no understanding physics.
Pull Saw = When you understand physics.
I have to disagree with your conclusions. a saw I can buy once and sharpen myself whenever I need to refine my edge is worth more to me than a throwaway blade I might have to wait a week for a new blade to arrive. Cutting on the push allows me to follow my marking lines that are visible giving me greater control where the saw cuts. The kerf on both saws seemed about the same, you just showed the back side where a push saw has the fibers come out, flip that board around and I bet the push saw cut looks just as good. Try an old Disston D8 that you yourself have sharpened and tell me Its not as good. Sure you might need a magnifying glass if your as old as Tom to sharpen, but is that worth buying a new saw every time it gets dull? The west tended towards better ideas because there was more competition, whether woodworking or swords. Check out Paul Sellers if you want another masters opinion. Have a great day and keep making beautiful things!!!
on the cutting straight comment, it is already been proven that on the pull a cut is straighter. you are simply use to using your Western saw, that is a product of practice not nature (as is with the pull). on the sharpening comment, more people still have the very same blade years later on their Japanese saws. under certain situations the edge could go to a Western saw, however because you can sharpen them I am pretty sure there are more wrecked saws of this type. West tended towards better ideas, Japan is pretty much the holy land of woodworking, all wooden structures have far surpassed those of the West. Japan was still pretty much traditional carpentry until WWII, with which allowed simple fire bombing air raids to take place. Swords? Come now Japan also takes this crown as craftsmanship (folded steel) and functionality were of the highest importance to bladesmithing.
Andrew McAlpin pull saws generally are much more accurate, however you can't deny the fact that everyone in this trade has different styles and preferences. And on the sharpening vs buying a new blade, keep in mind Japanese tools are always very high quality, especially when it comes to blades. The Japanese have most certainly perfected the art of blade making, and whether it's a knife, plane, or saw, it'll last for quite a while.
Western saw....is TRASH....JAPANESE SAW....AWESOME..!
Are we going to address the elephant in the room?
Stop making push saws. They are inferior in every way. Perhaps for 'large' lumber in certain circumstances..even then I hear lumberjacks saying they prefer pull saws. I have continually searched for the benefit of push saws and have yet to find it. ..Except they can be sharpened. Good luck sharpening your 150 tooth framing saw that you despise. It can be sharpened because it will need to be! And the inferior steel can be sharpened. Ever since I used a western push saw when I was about 7 years old, I have despised them. First cut with a pull saw(think garden 'green' saw) and I never looked back. Western culture/tradition is laughable. I'm proud to not say I'm a proud American! We are dumber than a crate of push saws:)
I can sharpen my saw in 10 minutes. Can japan ship a new blade to rural America in a shorter time frame? When you've got your work on a low sawhorse and you're pulling both the work and your body up with each stroke, your back will thank you for moving to a push saw. Grandpas rusty framing saw in a 7 year old's hands probably couldn't cut through butter. Both my hand sharpened western panel saws cut faster than my new ryoba even without adding any downward pressure. Quality of a saw matters in the east and west
@@cheetoman23 Hi CheetoMan, that is an interesting insight...however, I don't understand why you would be "pulling the work..."..please explain.
As far as sharpening, large pull saw teeth could just as easily be sharpened as a push saw teeth. You can't compare a tiny Japanese pull saw with complex teeth, to grandpas push saw with large teeth...
But I do see a possible advantage with using body weight to push down through lumber on larger wood..that makes sense. So let's agree that push saw is beneficial when cutting through large boards👍
..so in THIS case, cheeto man is not lying😉
You are awesome, but you know we have electricity Now?;)
what a biased video! rush with the western saw and take your time with the Japanese saw.do the same video on real hardwoods