Machining Round Stock to Square -- A Time Saving Technique !!!
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- čas přidán 1. 04. 2022
- Occasionally it saves time to use the waste material before you remove it. Creating a grip rail reduces the number of times you need to reposition your part in the vise, and is a useful way to save time. Take a Look !!
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Hey Joe, your super troll has called this video a hoax and claimed it has over 70 operations as shown. I watched it a bunch of times and can't see where that number comes from. Care to comment?
With pleasure. First, super trolls, regular trolls, average trolls, below average trolls, or the lowest life forms online....Maggots, don't deserve a reply. Or any type of attention for that matter. I'm not sure what universe my secret admirer is living in, but 70 operations is a bit exaggerated. Perhaps its an unconscious demonstration of their inability to count. Who knows? I had actually forgotten about my maggot admirer, but do appreciate them watching my channel. Thanks for the heads up. I needed a laugh. By the way, to anyone reading this.....if anybody can count 70 operations to complete this demo part, please let me know how you arrived at that number.
@@joepie221 Well said my friend!!!
Probably counting footsteps, breaths that he takes, pressing the on and off buttons etc. Clearly someone hasn't got much else to do. :)
@@joepie221 If I lose count, I just add six for good measure. I lost count of how many times I lost count. (Does that make it exponential?)
@@joepie221 I reckon I know what he's applying 70 operations to but he didn't need to come here to be abused - he could have stayed at home - and abused himself! 🤣🤣🤣
hi Joe, you among others have inspired me to go to college at 41 to do a diploma in advanced mechanical engineering. I could've just learned the basic machining but instead opted for learning the theory too, including the physics, maths and electrical. thanks and get well soon
Knowing why is just as important as knowing how. Keep an open mind and always listen to the FOG's.
@@joepie221 I want to build my own mini 4 stroke engine so definitely need the know how I've already done much research. sorta on a time crunch because of cancer... not imminently terminal as its controllable with chemo. Also 70711 is now imprinted on my brain
@@joepie221 fog?
@@NewsNowFortWorth f*** old guys
@@NewsNowFortWorth Fu#king Old Guys
Hint: Pythagorean theorem. The magic factor is 1/√2.
30°, 45°, and 60° angles all have simple formulas for sine, cosine, and tangent, and it's worthwhile committing them to memory. They were pounded into me in 8th and 9th grade and stick ever since.
tan 45° = 1
sin 45° = cos 45° = 1/√2
sin 30° = cos 60° = ½
cos 30° = sin 60° = √3/2
tan 30° = 1/√3
tan 60° = √3
Thanks Paul.
Correct.
@@joepie221 Which reminds me: as much as you love to teach trig, you ought to do a collaboration with 3blue1brown. He does some wonderful math videos. Maybe Ruger could get some animation time with the pi brothers 😁
As a general rule. My go to end mill is a .375 3 flute carbide.. my machine does most of its work with that size(unless bulk removal is in order, or smaller is required) so you using your preferred size instead of a bigger one is perfectly understandable.
Bang for the buck 3/8 or 1/2 depending whats on sale.
a² + b² = c² assuming c=1 and a=b this becomes 2*a² = 1 which can be rewritten as a² = 1/2 and finally a = sqrt(1/2) = 0.7071
Hey Joe, i am a certified electronics technician holding a degree in Electronics Engineering Technology. In my field, it is a must to know trig functions. We use the sine of 45 deg. Very often, because the rms value (voltage in your shop) is .70711 x peak. However, i have always been interested in machining and spent as much time as possible in the shop with some very good machinests. Since retiring, i now spend a lot of time in my small home shop working with my mini lathe and mini milling machine. Thank you for all your great info. I use it often and you are truly a blessing to me.
If your stock is longer, you can turn a reduced diameter (inscribed circle to the finished square) on one end so you just touch this diameter region when the square is finished. If the finished piece is a rectangle, turn 2 diameters, each determining 2 opposite sides. Saves trig, saves a lot is you have no readout.
I've had lathes and mills for about 28 years now to do my own equipment repairs and every time I watch Joe I learn something new. I really enjoy watching your videos sir.
Thank you very much. I believe we can all learn something new from each other.
Always wanted to be a machinist, got to be a salesman, and later a steel fabricator, instead. I envy your wonderful knowledge and skill, and thanks for lesson. I'm 82 and going to buy a mill unit.
Good luck.
I might never get to do machining but you are making me a better engineer and designer with the knowledge.
Thats good to hear. Knowing how parts are made does make an engineer better. I know the guys on the floor notice.
I can’t express enough how much I’d have loved to have you as a teacher. And thank you for teaching me now.
Thanks. I hope to continue.
Been using this method for a number of years now. It actually came about as a result of the cost of square shaped stock in some of the harder materials I generally work with being needed in larger sizes. Being that most of my work is in a larger 50 taper machine, I will also go as far as dovetailing the grip rail in heavier pieces (500-800 pound) to make sure they stay put. I even go as far as cutting the grip rail in the 12 foot lengths before they go in the rack on certain materials just so they are ready to go when needed. Glad to see someone else had the same idea and is able to share it with others!
I've seen the dovetail grip rail used with success on some very heavy stock. It has great grip integrity.
This brings me back full circle to the first Joe Pie video I ever watched, the "the best mill tip you'll ever get" on squaring stock. I've used that tip countless times, but until now, hadn't made the connection to how it could be used on non-square'ish stock. Thanks for another informative video.
My pleasure.
@@joepie221 My benefit. I think I'm getting the better end of the deal. ;-)
In your diagram, the diameter of the stock is also the hypotenuse of the triangle. If you assume the length of the sides are 1 unit (inch, mm, mile, furlong - doesn't matter), then the length of the hypotenuse is the square root of the sum of the squares of the sides - 1 squared is 1, so the hypotenuse is the square root of 2, or roughly 1.41428 units long. Flipping this on its head, if the hypotenuse is 1 unit long, the sum of the squares of the sides is 1. The square root of 1 is 1, so the squares of the sides are each 1/2 unit long. This means that the sides are the square root of 1/2, or 0.70711
👌
Correct. The hypotenuse will always be the round stock diameter. Also, There are several ways to calculate the max square size. I though just cutting to the end and presenting the most useful value would be the easiest to remember.
Can only get round cast iron and need to make a gib. Exactly the thing I need to know. Bloody Brilliant. Thank you from Australia.
Good luck.
Hi there. Yeah Keith from Michigan. What a kicking process from round stock to square. I primarily round material for the Lathe projects. The ability to change via to square, great Joe 👍..
Its good to use the material on the shelf if you can.
Great to have you back Joe, you’ve definitely been missed.
Thanks. Doing these is very hard for me right now, but I have to reach out as I can. I'll be back up to speed in a few weeks.
Quick, easy and to the point......Teacher gets an apple........and 5 thumbs up !!!!!
The trick to finding the largest square is that a 45-45-90 degree triangle has a known relationship between the hypotenuse and the two identical legs. The hypotenuse is the length of a leg times the square root of 2. So by using the diameter as your hypotenuse you just have to solve for a leg and that's where you can either divide by the square root of 2 or multiply by .70711 (relationship/ratio between a leg and the hypotenuse).
I hope someone finds this explanation of the math behind this useful.
That works, in my head it was multiply by sqrt(0.5) which also gives the same answer.😊
omg i just want to mill and cut stuff do i have to know all this lol?
@@NewsNowFortWorth nah, just crank the rpm and make some chips
Always a helpful tip. Don't overdo the standing stuff until you are totally well. My plans arrived and I am making a bill of materials.
Good luck Harold. Thanks for the purchase.
Hi Joe, thanks for the video, another learning experience! And a little light relief with all that's going on in the world. Regards from Wales
My heart breaks for the Ukrainian people. I'm limping around with a busted foot but have no room to complain by comparison. We are all truly blessed. Thanks for checking in.
My "Joe Pi" bag-o-tricks is overflowing! Cheers!
I suggest a bigger bag. :)
I put a square peg in a round hole once.
It took 300 tons of pressure 😉
Good to see you again, Joe.
Someday I'll show how to plug a square hole with a round plug. It can be done.
Your videos on different techniques are all awesome, but I particularly like the ones on setup tricks like this. They usually safe time, improve workholding so safety, and usually precision and finish, too. I think I've watched this one about 4 times over the past year. Thanks for giving back to the community with your knowledge! As to any negative comments, I've found that people that couldn't do OR teach usually just sit around and whine.
I’ve also seen some guys divide the diameter by the square root of 2 ( 1.414 ). Love your channel, thanks for all you do!!
It's pythagorus - hypotonus squared equals sum of the squares of the other two sides. Using the diagram shown near the start of the vid, the diameter of the stock is the hypotonus, and each side of the required square bar will be the other two sides. Make each side equal 1 unit, then the diameter will be the square root of 1 squared + 1 squared units. Which equals the square root of 2 = approx (1.414) So dividing the diameter by 1.414 will give you the size of each side of the square. Or instead of dividing, multiply by the reciprocal of 1.414 (mathematicall the same operation) which is 0.707. Or you can multiply by either the cos or sin of 45 degrees (both are .707, because both adjacent and opposite sides are the same length, and cos and sin of 45 deg can also be derived by pythagorus in the same way).
I just use .707. Unless I use 1.414. But another magic number for the machinist is 0.866 (sine cosine 30 degrees). I use it for making hexagons. Also multiplied by a diameter it is the distance between jaws of a three jaw chuck.
Hex size across the flats X 1.155 for round stock required.
Hope you have a speedy recovery
"....standing on one foot". Me smiles.... Heal fast and heal well Joe. Always a good hint for the shops from your videos.
EVERYTHING takes longer when you only have the use of one foot. I'd like to say its a pain in the ass, but I'd be about 36" too high.
Neat trick never would have thought of it, that's why you're the man, continue getting well...
Thanks. Working on it.
Love it when you show techniques like this, it's brain food for me. Or another slice of Pie 😁
Take it easy with the leg. It may be 6 weeks but if you push that tendon will pop. No consolation but the wife's still got her foot up too and she only has half your troubles.
Best wishes Neil
Thanks Neil. Unless I want to scuba dive in circles for the rest of my life, I'll do exactly what the doctor says. Its coming along well.
It's both the sine and cosine of 45 degrees. :D Like knowing pi out to five places, knowing co/sine of 45 out to five places (like you've got there) is just one of those things we wind up memorizing because it's so handy. :D
i know. Joe said "a function of 45 deg" he could have literally guessed either sin or cos and he would have still been correct!
Or half the square root of 2, though the 5 decimal olaces is a bit reckless.
@@olderasdirt Reckless??? I'm not sure you understand the meaning of that word.
@@DiffEQ Can you please share with us a picture of your mill that will repeatibly hold tolerances better than 1 part in 100,000 ? (and your temperature controlled workshop)
Came here to say this. I have a plumber friend that always uses 1.41 x a distance between two points. Or 1.5 to be safe. He uses this to get a total length of pipe between those two point but running it one leg, then a 90 and the second leg. Again just a trig function because the hypothesis on a 45 degree iso triangle in relation to the other sides.
Welcome back Joe!!! Good to see you up and about!!
I'm moving slow, but at least I'm moving.
Good to see you back in action
I'm faking it. I have a long way to go to be back.
Excellent video/information! This has became the go-to channel on YT for machining tips & tricks-
Hope you continue on the mend & are 100% soon.
This is the kind of video that is worth rewatching several times.
Thanks again!
I use this a lot. Its great for long strips of material.
Your great. Tks!! You always show us the tricks to improve our work. Can't think you enough!
Happy to help!
Thanks Joe. I have a project coming up where I need to make a square bar out of some round stock so this has saved me a ton of work. Thankyou Sir!
Glad to help.
Great to see you back!!
If only for a moment. I have a bunch of mini machines to complete and a beautiful Stuart vertical twin. I have to get better.
Good to see you back in the shop! I also have been tinkering I’m my shop at six weeks after neck surgery.
I'm very restless.
@@joepie221 my problem was after having two disks replaced with spacers and three vertebrae fused together with a plate and six screws, I came out of recovery with no pain at all, not even the incision! The most I was allowed to do was watch tv and CZcams for six weeks. To be honest CZcams probably saved my sanity! And I missed yours. I hope you are doing well.
I've been using grip stock in all sorts of operations since your earlier vid about it, this is another useful addition to the armoury, like the earlier tip about five-face squaring in a single setup that I now use all the time. Pure gold and a bonus break-edge tip as well. Useful as always.
Glad you like them.
Always great to watch! think its great you are passing on all these trade tips. I always have a smile on my face as I learnt so many of these things off the older tradesman while I was an apprentice and young toolmaker. Keep up the wonderful work! I hope your videos inspire more people to take up machining as a hobby and also keep the manual skills alive in the trade. As a model engineer building live steam models I'm always referring fellow hobbyists to your videos, thanks for providing a great resource Joe!
I appreciate the trust and referrals. Thank you.
Nice Joe, glad to see you back 🙏
Much appreciated
Hey Joe, Good to hear your voice. Great tip I will use this technique a lot thank you sir. Be Safe
Hi David, thanks for checking in.
I just wanted to say thank you! I really appreciate you sharing your experience!
Thanks Joe, another great tip from you having years of trials and errors and the experience you gained and learned to help others learn and save time without having to go through as many failures.
Hope you get healed up and back to good health soon, I enjoyed as always 👍
Thank you.
Every video I see from you. I have learned something new to machining practices. Plus some easier ways to solve a problem.
Excellent. Pass it on.
Also can be defined as diameter divided by square root of 2
Thanks so much Joe, hope you are healing well! take care bud.
I'm almost half way there. Its a slow road.
Great tip....positively Joe. Hope you continue to mend faster than planned!
I hope so too! Thanks.
The grip rail idea is brilliant!
Thanks. When needed, its a real time saver.
Great tip Joe. I thought about doing something like that some time ago, but I got cold feet and did it the conventional way. Wishing would a continued speedy recovery
Thank you.
Joe, I am always impressed by your machining and approach, shows a real master craftsman at work…
Thanks Joe, I’ll keep that technique along with the one you showed us for squaring stock. Sin 45° = Cos 45° = 0.7071.
Alternative: It's square root of 2 divided by 2.
Length of the cube side = a. Diameter of the round stock = D.
So a² + a² = D² 2 * a² = D² a² = 1/2 * D² a = sqr(1/2) * sqr(D²) = sqr(1/2) * D = 0.7071 * D
Your videos are useful with very good tips. Thank you for taking the time to make them and put them on CZcams.
My pleasure. Thanks for watching.
@@joepie221 You always reply to comments, that weighs heavy for me.
Glad to see you back, good trick.I'll use this one often, have lots of round tool steel.
That’s a great technique Joe love it , that’s filed in my “mental tool box” under another game changing technique from Joe pie!
Hope you make a full recovery soon 👍🏻
Thanks. I'm on the mend.
Genius Joe. Thanks.
That full-contact touch-off technique is genius, thank you.
Thanks Joe, been doing this most of my life, never saw this technique before, but it makes good sense. I've got one year of "machine shop" education, everything else learned by the seat of my pants. Quite often a logical tool path can greatly reduce times of work handling. Very well demonstrated.
Great trick! Thanks for sharing. I hope your recovery is going well, and you are back to 100% asap. Also, I used another trick of yours the other day and it worked flawlessly. The one you showed about picking up an internal thread on the lathe where you but your tool into the thread with the boring bar loose, then use an indicator on the the end of the shank to see how much it moves so you can put your tool right in the correct spot. So slick, this was a large specialty nut for a valve where I work, with a buggered up thread on the end. Worked great, thanks for sharing all your knowledge!!
Go in and ask for a raise. :)
@@joepie221 😂
Nice tip. Thank you.
I love this channel! I always learn something new or at the very least learn a better order of operations. Thank you Joe, your knowledge it is invaluable!👍👍
Glad you like them! Thanks for the comment.
Thanks Professor, much appreciated.
Once again a great work holding tip - thank you.
Some useful triangles for angles and proportion, thanks to old pythagoras:
1-1-sqrt(2) 45 deg this exmpl
1-2-sqrt(3) 30/60 deg
3-4-5 90 deg the old favourite
5-12-13 90 deg tricky spots!
7 24 25 ?
If a spot is that tricky, it’s time for a DFM review.
@@Amerikanin2numarali_ustasi
Thank you - VG
@@troglokev
No Manufacturing ...
Just playing!
@@crjpetersutube yup you the only one who can manufacture we all are players of VG
Perfect timing Professor Joe! I was just pondering this exact thing.
Perfect!
Thanks helped my youngest son out with a school project Joe! I guess he is a little advanced having his grandpas Lathe and Mill to work with.
He'll talk about the opportunity forever. Cherish every minute.
Nice one Joe, I have a chunk of round stock that I need to square up for a job, so the timing of this video has been most serendipitous.👍
Outstanding Joe! Thanks for improving my knowledge base.
Good shortcut. Thanks for the look.
No problem 👍
Masterful. Thanks for the vid
Glad you enjoyed it
As always, great info…. Here’s to a full and speedy recovery
Thanks.
Great tip! Thanks Joe!
Very Smart and quick way of doing this. Thanks for sharing, Joe!
Always excellent. Thanks Joe! 👍🏻
Thanks Joe
Nice job 👍👍👍 hope you're on the mend 👍👍👍
glad to see you back Joe, did you recover already?
Great tip Joe. I have a project I am working on and will give this a try. Thanks get well soon.
Good luck.
Thanks for another interesting video Joe.
Joe ,you are an inspirational teacher .love the videos have picked up a load of your tips and tried to put them to use with a certain amount of success .Makes my amateur machine work fun ! Great to see you again.
very good video joe..thanks for your time
Glad you enjoyed it
Great tip. Goes to show your never to old to learn something new.
This has worked well for me on many occasions.
Always a good tip found in one of Joe’s videos. That was a really good one!
Glad you liked it!
Thanks for the tip!! Nice to see you again! wish you a fast recovery!!
Superb,the grip rail seems like common sense itself... now you've pointed it out.😅 Cheers Joe,brilliant tutorial as always,helped me so much in my baby steps into machining.Many thanks sir,& wishing you a speedy recovery!🏆
Glad you enjoyed it
Thank you sir from Canada for more GREAT FREE Advice / tips
Glad you like them.
Thanks Joe, clever as always.
Nice trick, many alloy steels can only be purchased in round bar.
Thanks for sharing.
Another Gem! Thanks for the Tip!
Nice part, looks good and enjoyable video. Thanks.
Tat is a great little shop gem...
Smart stuff, Joe. I will be using this one!
Great info Joe, thanks for sharing..
Thanks for watching!
Excellent as always, thankyou so much for continuing to share your wisdom and knowledge!
My pleasure!
Hey Joe. Thanks for this useful tidbit for sure. It is a keeper need to know thing. Indeed !
Thanks for checking in.
@@joepie221 You are a master of time management and accuracy my friend.
Another good teaching piece. Thanks Joe. Hope your foot gets better.
Thanks very explaining the tip to avoid burrs!! Good luck from Spain!!
Thanks Guys.
Great tip as usual. You need to write a book of machining tips and tricks, I'd buy it.
Maybe one day!
Great video! Heal quickly!!
Thanks!
Thanks for sharing, this will definitely come in handy. Get well!
Thank you.
Joe really like your video, get well stay safe
Thank you.
Awesome technique Joe, thank you!