Even then, while the game mechanic is a time limit, Sonic can still stay in his Super form as long as he still has enough rings. In the final battle of SA2, one of the things you can do mid fight is switch between Super Sonic and Super Shadow so that one can fight the Final Hazard while the other charges up on rings. In short, as long as Sonic keeps getting rings as Super Sonic, he can stay in his super form for as long as he so desires, and this applies to both lore and game mechanics.
@@Tyrecordslol There’s one thing that people don’t think about when talking about Super Sonic. Super Sonic is not invincible there are plenty of times we’ve seen Super Sonic take damage to something.
@@RaccoonThunderMario_Officialbrother I know what you mean because of frontiers but those hits were weak if sonic will still standing because no matter what sonic keeps on fighting
Wait. I just had a thought. If death battle made Mario win while including other versions of himself, doesn’t that mean Archie sonic should’ve been allowed for fairness?
Mario defeated dreamy bowser, who was amped by an infinite number of dreams. And thanks to mario party we know that dreams are universe… We also know mario is capable of piloting the star diver which travels several hundred lightyears in seconds. Hed be able to react to sonic.
@@chuckflash it's crazy how thats over looked even a base mario could fight a bowser who treanted to destroy the dream port that has infinite universes and paralle dimensions
6:39 A good thing worth considering is everytime sonic has a "limit" to how fast he goes. That's not his max speed, that's how fast he's willing to go safely. Imagine him going crazy fast through cities like in Unleashed and he constantly creates Sonic Booms because he'd break the sound barrier on multiple occasions. Given he's all about protecting and helping others from flickies to people, he definitely would limit how fast he should actually go.
I watched a video on even base sonic's speed at the max. as soon as he enters his max speed zone he ligit breaks a universe because of the force and friction of his step and even before sonic really runs the earth is obliterated and so is the solar system
@@xD4NNYx Yes but be careful according to some comments Mario beats Sonic in 1v1 and apparently hyper sonic can't do anything against superstar mario 🤣🤣
A small correction on the Super form. Since the Advance games are canon, the super form can easily last for a few days. The rings are a gameplay mechanic that don’t actually apply to him as a character. Also, faster than light is the BARE MINIMUM for his speed. But yeah, great video! I love that you give Mario his best stuff, and push him to his limits regardless of how it’d end the same way anyway.
Actually, that argument can be deflected… But, I do have one the is indisputably true. Death Egg Zone, Sonic the Hedgehog 2. Sonic runs out of the Death Egg and activates Super Sonic, saving himself from the fall. So, you may be thinking, he just used rings. But wait, THERE ARE NO RINGS ON THE DEATH EGG. In cannon, those fights are done damagless, Sonic has 0 rings. Meaning that he activated and maintained Super Sonic, with 0 rings. So yeah, ring limit is 100% just a game mechanic.
@@complete8423 He also survived a black hole with no rings. So it's ABSOLUTELY just a game mechanic. Not to mention some canon games don't even USE rings. Black Knight being the one that comes to mind. But yeah, Super Sonic FARRRR outlasts Mario.
That scene in Advance was off-screen. Considering the abundance of Rings in space, Super Sonic could’ve easily survived, and there are various cutscenes where Rings function like they do in gameplay. Mania scenes, Sonic having to knock the Rings out of SA2 Shadow to defeat him in Generations, Rings being brought up in numerous cutscenes like when Tails acknowledges Eggman using Rings to build his themepark or Silver stealing Tails’ Rings, etc.
@@How_to_Get_Soloed_101 Rings do exist in the lore, but they are not needed for Sonic to maintaing a Super Form or take a hit, they just help with both, but are not needed.
Some debates are fun it’s a good way to show knowledge and love for a series it’s only when the insults starts or the debates turn to shipping🤮 in franchises where romance is not the focus do they become unpleasant
As a Super Mario fan, I know damn well that Mario has no chance defeating Sonic at all, so I have to admit that Sonic takes the W Edit: this fucking war is still going on, HELP ME 😭
You do realize that White Tanooki Mario dying to lava has the same reasoning behind it as to why Hyper Sonic dies by being crushed right with it being a gameplay restriction since otherwise you can break a lot of the lava levels with it? Also Sonic has never escaped a black hole before only outrun it for a bit same as how Mario was able to swim from it in Mario Party
And to top it all off, sega had to remove hyper sonic from the series because it's so overpowered that it can literally destroy walls by just touching them (shown in game) and can even breathe underwater.
I disagree with the "SM64, Galaxy, Odyssey Mario are different Marios." because they are most likely the same Mario. Other than that this video is really accurate. Also if Mario had the white Tanooki Suit I would just teleport him into Marble Zone or somethin.
Yeah that was the one point I really didn't agree with. Obviously Paper Mario is the only real different Mario but the rest are the same character. Speaking of which, it's important to differentiate Paper Mario from regular Mario because Paper Mario is whooping Sonic's ass any day of the week. Which is why that specific version of Mario is often paired against Archie Sonic which is a much more fair fight.
@@SonicSwift99Shigeru Miyamoto literally confirmed that every mario is the SAME mario... Also, paper Mario references several things from the mainline games. Same goes for the rpg games.
@@CatfishMys Doesn’t matter what anybody says if the material shows otherwise. The head of Sonic Team wants Sonic Prime to be canon yet that show is impossible to place in the main canon thanks to the many inconsistencies. Same goes for the Archie and IDW comics, which also mention past games.
As an honorable mention and fun fact, there's a secret red star power up in Super Mario Galaxy 1 that basically lets Mario fly freely, unlike the wing cap that has that whole momentum flying system going on in SM64
Black holes actually don’t heat up unless they’ve eaten a star recently. Besides that, if you find a lone black hole with nothing around it, it’s a cold death from there.
I also find it funny too, a majority of kids games with the most bizzare and disturbing soundtracks are made by Nintendo, the most frightening and unnerving being the Giygas theme from Earthbound. Idk why they do it, either for fun or there is something far more sinister. Either way it's messed up. P.S, actually even SEGA US branch made a disturbing final boss theme in Sonic CD, and another bizzare soundtrack in SA2, idk what that was. But yeah, even SEGA has sometimes also added absurd soundtracks to kid-friendly games.
people discussing Mario vs sonic: "alright so no extra lives, broken power ups, and no abilities specific to one game" people discussing Mario vs sephiroth: "um dont you know Mario is multiverse level and can deflect supernova right back at him"
Ahh yeah i can see the fact that Sonic wins and as a fan as both of them I appreciate the fact that you took the time to actually specify the Mario you were using and and you bring up actual logic and fun fact did you know we where extremely close to getting an Archie Mario
I love both of them, but these were all facts for my childhood hero to come out on top, Everyone always does forgets about hyper sonic cause he was only in one game sadly but its imagine modern sonic being able to go hyper
@@AnotherScaleneTriangle thing is he wouldn’t even need to use super sonic, the 2nd comment said that in sonic 3 it lasts for 20 seconds so he could just stall out Mario’s superstar power up and speed blitz him
I feel like sonic would just run laps around mario as he could do nothing about it then he'd start beating mario like there's no future just to show he could.
8:42 another thing nobody brings up is that Sonic’s invincibility item needs to be stronger in order to surpass is base durability than Mario’s does for Mario
By the way, Sonic can survive the force when inside a black hole. In Zero Gravity, he just goes in, casually beats a god, and then its fin. And in base form too!
I totally agree. I have been a fan of mario but sonic is just better. The quote “Running around at the speed of sound” always got me when I was a kid and made me like sonic. The sonic vs mario debate is probably over because of this video.
As a massive Sonic fan, I'll give some benefit to Mario with powerscaling and say it's a close fight. I think Mario's power ups and durability can give him the win against base Sonic but Super Sonic would whoop him especially after the Frontiers' buffs.
@@SonicSwift99 It's still biased... from my pov, it just sounds like you don't know much of what Mario's actually capable of, like majority of the commenters in the comment section.
@@DJ792YT Well he didn't refer to the whole game mechanics, but only some of them. Time limit, death by falling, or travelling through the map weren't allowed. It's still valid
No joke, Sonic easily can take Mario in a death battle, even if Mario is in his golden tanooki suit, and sonic is in base form, sonic could grab and dump him into lava before Mario even realizes he’s moving
@@wubproductions9755 Super Sonic is the same thing so it would be a stalemate. But the golden tanooki suit is non standard in the first place as the only way Mario can obtain it is by dying first.
@@wubproductions9755 even if he manages to get this, Sonic can always use rocks or other objects that aren’t considered a living being, as Mario’ golden tanooki does not effect any non living objects, most notably being ground. Meaning sonic could use a large chunk of ground to work as gloves and shove him into lava
@@noob3702 now how am I being mad when I’m simply saying “this lowballed Mario and hella glazed Sonic” which it clearly did. And what does Mario’s “inconsistencies” have to do with the argument? Sonic has as much inconsistencies as Mario. I’m not letting someone who’s clearly biased to Sonic tell me off
@@Thing_of_somes no, ty just broke down why sonic solos, he only used game sonic because archie sonic is overkill, sonic can beat mario through sheer speed alone, he almost outran a blackhole in his base form and he didnt outrun it just because he was tired and had 0 rings sonic just negs
About comp Mario, while I agree that Paper Mario and Mario are different, I do think it is implied in the series that Mario from the mainline games (64, Galaxy, Sunshine, etc) is canonically the same Mario. Visual differences of the Marios is not canon, rather hardware limitations at the time, and there was never any implication in the games and lore that the different Marios across games were actually different people, unlike Sonic who has interacted with and fought alongside classic Sonic. No Marios have ever done this in the way Sonic has, and besides paper Mario there was never talk of timelines and a multiverse of Mario. I think for a fair fight we shouldn’t assume each mainline game is a different Mario in canon just because other franchises like Sonic or Spider Man do similar things. The only one who’s actually different is Paper Mario.
Just a correction about the hyper form it’s powered by the super emeralds not the master emerald (the super emeralds are the chaos emeralds in their peak power so sonic using them was able to ascend beyond his super forms power)
I would actually love to hear your takes on other Mario vs. Sonic match ups, like Luigi vs. Tails, Bowser vs. Eggman, ect. Also, I don't think rings will be a problem for Sonic, since he could always just summon more like in Frontiers.
Luigi isn’t expanded in enough really. I wish he was cause he’s my 2nd favourite Mario character but there’s just not enough info on him. Bowser vs Eggman would be cool but I think the egghead would win. Bowsers just brute strength while Eggman has workarounds to that
@@cirnosnumberfan6449 Dreamy bowser isn’t really a power-up. He had to inhale a stone to achieve that form and with eggmans machinery he would get to the stone first provided he knew what it did. He’s also come into contact with power like that before. In a game called sonic shuffle there are stones called precious stones that have the kind of same power. As for grandstars, have we actually seen what they can do. We’ve seen them be used to achieve light speed but that’s it Im pretty sure
I'm gonna split my response up into parts because the comment was so long that it crashed my CZcams. First of all, the Paper Mario and Mario aren't the same person argument is actually been proven wrong: In the original Paper Mario, Goombario's Tattle will state that Mario has been fighting Goombas ever since Super Mario Bros. This is a direct callback to the game itself. static.wikia.nocookie.net/debatesjungle/images/b/b1/Goombario-PaperMarioCanon.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20211027064505 Goombario is generally smart when it comes to his knowledge on things, as his Tattle demonstrates this. He's also a big fan of Mario, and the events of SMB are popular enough to be seen in plays or appear in Bowser's own realms. Thus, Goombario is a reliable source. static.wikia.nocookie.net/debatesjungle/images/e/ef/MarioFan.png/revision/latest?cb=20211027064926 Back to Paper Mario, we can read Luigi's Diary in his secret basement. Luigi writes about how the adventure stuff is difficult, and he enjoyed playing Golf, Tennis, and throw Parties. These are obvious callbacks to Mario Golf, Tennis, and Party. And while I am well aware that the Paper Mario series has referenced a sports title, mainly Mario Kart, it should be well noted that these were not intended to be their own paper versions, as at the time Paper Mario released, it was alongside the N64 era. Thus it's most likely they are direct callbacks to those N64 era games. This would also need to be the case for continuity sake. static.wikia.nocookie.net/debatesjungle/images/5/55/PaperMario_Sports.png/revision/latest?cb=20211027065911 Luigi also notes in his diary that he's afraid of ghosts, a personality trait that was established before Luigi's Mansion and later on used in other games. static.wikia.nocookie.net/debatesjungle/images/9/9c/PaperMarioLuigiScan.png/revision/latest?cb=20220111034622 Paper Mario is considered a sequel to Super Mario RPG, at least in terms of its lore and story. The general plot of Paper Mario is Bowser stealing the Star Rod to grant his own wishes. However, it just so happens that Super Mario RPG is also a game where wishing is its main focus. The general plot for RPG is that Smithy sent Exor to destroy Star Road (remember this location, it's important) in order to stop people from making wishes. So why are these two games connected? Well because the Star Rod is what is used to grant wishes in Super Mario RPG. How do we know this? Well we know that as Geno battles Bowyer, he mentions that he works for a "higher authority", and was sent to get back each Star Piece. static.wikia.nocookie.net/debatesjungle/images/0/01/GenoScan1.png/revision/latest?cb=20211027071234 static.wikia.nocookie.net/debatesjungle/images/b/b4/GenoScan2.png/revision/latest?cb=20211027071636 But who exactly are those higher authorities? This is where Paper Mario's Star Spirits come in. The Star Spirits are the watcher over the Star Rod, and are meant to be the protectors of it. static.wikia.nocookie.net/debatesjungle/images/3/33/StarSpiritScan1.png/revision/latest?cb=20211027072206 static.wikia.nocookie.net/debatesjungle/images/a/a3/StarSpiritScan2.png/revision/latest?cb=20211027072240 However, you might think this isn't enough. For further proof, let's go back to Geno. If you are unfamiliar with Super Mario RPG, Geno is actually just someone possessing a toy. You might notice something, and that is that Geno's true form is that of a star. static.wikia.nocookie.net/debatesjungle/images/6/6b/GenoScan3.png/revision/latest?cb=20211027072638 He's a star, just like the Star Spirits. You might think this is just some coincidence, however this further relates to Paper Mario. We know that Geno is a star who works for higher authorities, and Paper Mario just so happens to have someone similar. That being Twink. static.wikia.nocookie.net/debatesjungle/images/f/f8/TwinkScan1.png/revision/latest?cb=20211027073234 static.wikia.nocookie.net/debatesjungle/images/0/0e/TwinkScan2.png/revision/latest?cb=20211027073302 static.wikia.nocookie.net/debatesjungle/images/b/bb/TwinkScan3.png/revision/latest?cb=20211027073330 Twink is also a Star who was sent down to help others by higher authorities, just like Geno. Thus they share the same occupation and general roles, connecting themselves. It should be noted that Stars are just a general species within the Mario universe. We won't stop there, remember Star Road? I hope so, because the two locations are also the same. Star Road (also called Star World) actually first comes from Super Mario World, making a further connection of a mainline title to other games. Star Road in both Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario are stated to be above the clouds. Something Super Mario World also displays. (Sorry if the image is small) static.wikia.nocookie.net/debatesjungle/images/b/b4/SMW_Art_-_Star_World.png/revision/latest?cb=20211027074228 Both are star locations that are the location of were wishes are to be granted at. They both are star related locations (even if the names and place looks different, this is a general thing within Mario however). And they are both where Star-beings live at. If you're still not convinced, I present my final argument. How are the wishes granted? Wishes are described to take shape into a Wish Star, and become little shooting stars. Paper Mario directly says this is also how wishes are formed. static.wikia.nocookie.net/debatesjungle/images/8/88/WishScan1.png/revision/latest?cb=20211027075024 static.wikia.nocookie.net/debatesjungle/images/c/cc/WishScan2.png/revision/latest?cb=20211027075058 Additionally, if we fast forward to Paper Mario: Color Splash, we can also directly see Mario and Huey make a wish. Which is done as a shooting star. That was a lot of connections. I guess Paper Mario being a scrapped Super Mario RPG 2 makes far more sense now. Back to more connections using... the same two games. Kind of. In Paper Mario, we see Mario be able to take the form of his NES-self, an obvious callback to his older adventures. Super Mario RPG actually does the exact same thing. Side-note, but Mario looking pixel-like is a canon thing he has acknowledged himself (Super Mario All-Stars Japanese Manual, Pages 121 & 123) static.wikia.nocookie.net/debatesjungle/images/e/ea/NESMarioScan1.png/revision/latest?cb=20211027080558 static.wikia.nocookie.net/debatesjungle/images/7/73/NESMarioScan2.png/revision/latest?cb=20211027081237
And this is just from Paper Mario. There are other instances where his canonicity contradicts what happened in the game. And no, in terms of canon, yes, Paper Mario is the strongest Mario. But when you ignore that, it's actually Mario-Kun from the manga. And it should also be known that Time Eater can't be scaled to 11D while Super Dimentio can. "How?" You ask? Well, it's as simple as this. The Overwhere and Underwhere. Think of both of these realms as Heaven and Hell for example. What makes them scale to 11D is two things. Higher planes of existence, and String Theory Soup. The argument is Dimentio, who surpassed The Void, which was going to consume all existence--all worlds, all dimensions, all possibilities and all timelines. How did Dimentio surpass The Void? First off, Paper Mario and the others tanked The Void. But, that's not all that's important here. Mainly, look at Paper Mario's condition after The Void. He has been blasted interdimensionally back to Flipside, and is unconscious. Now, to compare, when Dimentio attacked, Paper Mario and his party was blasted--once again--interdimensionally to The Underwhere, and were once again rendered unconscious. The similarities definitely can't be ignored; Dimentio matched its power. But even then, he has points of surpassing it; his attack that he held back on, mind you, surpassed a tremor from The Void. He merely snapped his fingers without malicious intent, and his tremor shook Castle Bleck harder than all the tremors The Void caused; we know he was holding back because he didn't want to hurt Luigi; he needed him. And because String Theory Soup proves that the Marioverse's secrets reside within String Theory, which is a theory that supports 11-dimensionality, this feat was consuming eleven dimensions. cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072944646604476546/1086823304205176872/paper_mario_color_splash.jpg cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072944646604476546/1073725599400603738/Screenshot_20221231_000654.jpg
Now, there's even more evidence backing up several aspects of this; to start, let's address doubts about The Void destroying dimensions. Next, let's talk about odd occurrences that back up String Theory being valid; to start, aesthetic details indicate String Theory in affect in the Marioverse. And what with mathematical-like equations existing in worlds like "Lineland," we can determine--for certain--that The Void was going to destroy all mathematical dimensions. And what about String Theory Soup? Is it reliable? Yes. It's the narrator who talks about String Theory Soup's description; third-person omniscient narrator. That is intensely reliable. And now, to address its name "not being important." The last sentence means everything: "Drink not, lest you learn more than what man was ever meant to know." Whatever this soup houses is huge. The earlier sentence states, "All the secrets of the universe are contained within this soup." So, it's something huge and revealing--a secret that man was never meant to know--about the universe. And the name reveals what that secret is; which is consistent since, String Theory relates back to the universe. The scale goes that Dimentio can destroy these forms, due to scaling above the void with dimension D. And in Mario's time machine there is proof that these forms exist, as the theory of forms is shown to be more plausible. And in the bottom "the republic" is the theory of forms as shown at the bottom. And from all the red scans that are shown below, the theory of forms seems to be much more plausable, according to the omniscient narrator of the game which servers as the main game mechanic. And in this, Aristotle agrees with the republic head on, when in real life he was the only one to disagree. So if the republic is true in Mario, then dimentio, due to scaling to the void, he can destroy these forms easily. cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072944646604476546/1073716954835193967/Screenshot_20230207_212837_Chrome.jpg cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072944646604476546/1073716955053305946/Screenshot_20230207_212955_Chrome.jpg cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072944646604476546/1073716955279794206/WQygmnq_d.jpg cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072944646604476546/1073716956135428328/1X2RX63_d.webp cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072944646604476546/1073716956726833204/Screenshot_20230207_214052_Chrome.jpg cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072944646604476546/1073716956957515878/Screenshot_20230207_220549_Google.jpg cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072944646604476546/1073716957171421186/Screenshot_20230207_222545_Google.jpg cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072944646604476546/1073723385999274065/Screenshot_20230122_160316.jpg cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1072944646604476546/1073723386250919957/Screenshot_20230122_160425.jpg
Solaris can also be countered by that of Culex, who has a similar time and space devouring feat. Culex has these abilities: Matter Manipulation (Capable of devouring matter), Space-Time Manipulation (Is proclaimed as the master of Time and Space. Can consume Time), Precognition (can see tens of years into the future), Anti-Matter Manipulation (Claimed to be an entity made of pure anti-matter itself), Creation (Shaped the Elemental Crystals from nothing, which amplified his power), Life-Force Absorption (Drain & Mega Drain are able to draw out the life-force of a being), Omnipresence (He himself stated to be the inheritor of Space and Time.), etc. And before you say that each Mario is a different version, Miyamoto himself stated that Super Mario has no definitive canon. By this alone, we can say that any Mario game considered canon is indeed, the same Mario with a different appearance.
White Tanooki Mario, just like Super Sonic keeps all of his base abilities when transforming. If we list all of Mario's powers, you would see just how much it is, ranging from: Superhuman Physical Characteristics Acausality (Type 1. Can interact with and fight alongside his baby self[1]) Genius Intelligence Minor Fourth Wall Breaking (Thanked the player for playing his game) Telepathy (Shares a telepathic bond with Luigi, allowing the two to always know where the other is at[2]) Self-Sustenance (Type 1. Shown to consistently be unaffected by the vacuum of space[3] and being underwater for prolonged periods of time[4]) Toon Force and Elasticity (Can survive being flattened and is able to recover immediately) Hammerspace (Various power-ups and items) Expert Hand-to-Hand Combatant (Mario has shown master-levels of combat prowess throughout his tenure as the Mushroom Kingdom's hero. He has defeated a myriad of powerful enemies, mostly consisting of Bowser, a powerful tyrant hellbent on galactic conquest and the kidnapping of Princess Peach. Outside of nemeses, Mario has also bested Jinx[5], a dojo sensei and martial artist whom will challenge Mario up to 3 times and become more difficult with each fight, in direct combat. Mario's skills have impressed Jinx so much that they even incorporated his fighting style into his training. Alongside Luigi, Mario is capable of fighting both Bowser Memory M and Bowser Memory L, identical copies of the bros based on how Bowser "fondly" remembers them) Master Acrobat (Has[6] displayed countless[7] examples of being[8] an expert acrobatic[9], such as being able to perform numerous flips mid-air, as well as various moves if accompanied by a partner. Can jump from several stories to the sky, perform superhuman leaps, and gain extra air time by repeatedly fluttering his feet) Limited Enhanced Statistics Amplification (Via Triple Jump, which allows Mario to temporarily become invincible after the third consecutive jump[10]) Self-Perception Manipulation (Can slow down his perception of time normally, or with Zone Speed, to time attacks correctly) Attack Reflection (His Hammer and Spin can reflect projectiles) Status Effect Inducement (His Spin Jump can stun enemies. His Hammer can also cause dizziness to an enemy) Non-Physical Interaction (Can harm Boos and Cackletta's soul) Adaptation (Easily adapted to the gravities of different sized planets) Afterimage Creation (Naturally leaves behind afterimages when using Zone Speed, and even without it) Weapon Mastery (Has been shown to expertly utilize a wide array of tools and weapons at his disposal such as: hammers, swords, koopa shells, robots, blasters, and many more. His iconic weapon of choice, the Hammer, is a weapon he shows, arguably, the greatest proficiency in. With the Hammer, Mario can reflect projectiles, stun enemies, and even cause them to undergo dizziness) Weapon Creation and Energy Manipulation (Can summon a giant hammer[11], a fire flower, and a rocket. Can also create a weapon composed of pure energy) Vehicular Mastery (Mario can expertly drive and pilot a multitude of vehicles and aircrafts such as: go-karts, bikes, boats, planes, submarines, and much more. Mario's expertise with vehicles and aircrafts enables him to perform acrobatic moves when driving, and fight during these events as well) Fire Manipulation (Is fully capable of producing fire on his own after obtaining the Firebrand. He can shoot large balls of fire, barrages of fire balls, and set objects on fire) Explosion Manipulation (Can create fiery explosions) Status Effect Inducement (Can use the move "Fire Bros." to perform a First Strike. Doing so will result in the enemy being afflicted with the "Burn" status) Ice Manipulation (Made an ice tower grow taller and can throw snowballs to freeze an enemy[12]) Time Travel (Traveled through time, via unknown means, to help his past self[13]) Possibly Existence Erasure (Wiped Wendy's castle from existence. Should noted that this might most likely fall under Toon Force) Extreme Heat (Can withstand the heat of Bowser's artificial sun while battling him inside it. As a racer in Mario Kart Wii, he can survive falling into lava without harm) Extreme Cold and Cosmic Radiations (Can easily endure the coldness of space and its hazardous elements. Can navigate through World 6, which was stated to be sub-zero in temperature and can freeze Bowser's army[14]) Fire Manipulation (As a playable character in Mario Kart Arcade GP DX, he can easily endure being set on fire when eating a Flaming Tender[15]) Ice Manipulation (Can break free from ice by an Ice Bro) Electricity Manipulation (Isn't negatively affected by Luigi using Thunderhand on him, and like other characters in Mario Party 6, Mario can endure being electrocuted) Paralysis Inducement (Unaffected by Bowyer's arrows, which paralyzes anyone it hits[16])
Sleep Manipulation (Resisted the Dreambeats, which put all inhabitants of Pi'illo island to sleep[17]) Sealing, Mind Manipulation, and Corruption (Type 2. Is merely damaged by Fury Bowser's Black Paint, as opposed to being sealed away like the islands in Lake Lapcat. Mario was also unaffected by both the Black Paint and Fury Bowser's passive corruptive aura[18]) Petrification (Broke free from being turned to stone) Transmutation (Treats Kamek's magic as an ordinary attack, which can transmute objects into enemies. Can also fight as a scarecrow) Gravity Manipulation (Has adjusted his gravity to walk normally on hundreds of different sized planets and can resist the strong gravitational pull of black holes) Matter Manipulation, Poison Manipulation, and Disease Manipulation (Unaffected by the paint Shadow Mario used, which can morph the ground it was on, get rid of entire pieces of land, or make entire buildings disappear completely and reappear from nothing, as well as being consistently stated to be a toxic pollutant, and having inflicted fevers to the Chain Chomplets) Transformation and Statistics Amplification (Via multiple power-ups) Healing (With the Super Mushroom) Size Manipulation (With the Super Mushroom, Mini Mushroom, and Mega Mushroom) Greater Fire Manipulation (With the Fire Flower) Greater Ice Manipulation (With the Ice Flower) Enhanced Statistics Amplification (The Super Star, Rainbow Star, Mega Mushroom, Invincibility Leaf, and Invincibility Bell all grant this due to in-game showings where a character becomes impervious to all types of conventional damage, and statements from sources) Teleportation (With the P-wing and Warp Whistle) Flight (With the Cape Feather, Super Leaf (Raccoon), Invincibility Leaf (Raccoon), and P-Balloon) Vibration Manipulation (With the Mega Mushroom and Cape Feather) Extended Attack Reflection (With the Cape Feather) Extended Weapon Mastery (With the Hammer Suit, Superball Flower, and Boomerang Flower) Free Movement (Water Walking. The Mini Mushroom allows Mario to run on water) Surface Scaling and Shapeshifting (With the Super Bell and Lucky Bell, Mario can climb up vertical surfaces. Lucky Bell in particular can allow Mario to transform himself into a golden lucky cat statue, temporarily making him invincible[19]) Resurrection (With 1-Up Mushrooms) Mushrooms/Flowers/Stars: Earth Manipulation (Rock Mushroom) Cloud Manipulation and Platform Creation (Cloud Flower) Transmutation, Explosion Manipulation, and Greater Fire Manipulation (With the Gold Flower. The Gold Flower is also capable of taking out enemies/bosses who are normally resistant, or immune, to the Fire Flower's attacks) Invisibility and Intangibility (Boo Mushroom and Power Flower) Flight (True Flight. With the Red Star) Battle Cards: Accelerated Development (Battle; Physical Stats, with Bowser's Battle Cards. Mario can increase his power in proportion to the amount of damage he's taken during battle) Statistics Amplification (With Battle Cards. Mario can increase the power of his Boots and Hammer up to 50%, his defense up to 50%, and his speed, for a limited time, up to 35%) Fire Manipulation (With Bowser's Battle Cards. This adds fire to any of Mario's attacks) Purification (Type 3. With Battle Cards. Mario can remove status effects from himself) Healing (With Battle Cards. Mario can restore 30% of his Health, or fully) Damage Nullification (With any of his Battle Cards. Mario can nullify any damage that may be taken once) Resurrection (With Peach's and Bowser's Battle Cards. Mario can resurrect a fallen ally) Statistics Reduction (With Battle Cards. Mario can lower the defense of an enemy by 50% and their power by 30% for a limited time ) Transmutation (With Toad's Battle Cards. Mario can transform an enemy into a Mushroom, though this has a chance to fail) Gear/Items (Mario & Luigi Series): Accelerated Development (Battle; Physical Stats, with Knockout Boots, which increases Mario's striking power with each enemy he defeats. With Golden Hammer, Mario's power increases in proportion to the amount of coins he has) Passive Healing (With Doctor Socks, Nurse Socks, and Guardian Socks, all of which restore some of Mario's HP after a turn. He can also heal himself with Max Mushroom, Nut, Super Nut, Max Nut, Ultra Nut, and Star Candy) Extended Resurrection (Via 1-Up Gloves, Gumption Socks, and Retry Clock) Damage Nullification (With Guard Shell DX, Big Shell, Small Shell, and KO Shell, all of which can negate damage taken over the course of battle 6 times) Portal Creation (Via Magic Window[20]) Statistics Amplification (With Bye-Bye Gloves and Dent Gloves which is potent enough to instantly one-shot foes comparable to Mario himself. Cozy Wear and Guard Wear increase Mario's defense whenever he takes damage, or blocks an attack, respectively) Summoning (With the Zee Egg, Mario can summon the Zeekeeper to aid him in battle) Supernatural Luck (With Stache, which increases odds of critical hits and increases the chances of enemies dropping items after battle) Invisibility (With Boo Biscuit, which can turn Mario temporarily invisible) Purification (Type 3. With Refreshing Herb and Star Candy, Mario can remove status effects from himself) Caps: Shapeshifting and Power Mimicry (Luigi and Wario caps) Flight (True Flight. With the Wing Cap) Intangibility and Invisibility (Vanish Cap) Metal Manipulation (Metal Cap) Possession (Via Cappy)
@@bigprogaymer6923 Well I just recently found out that Ty took the "race swap Mario's" out of context. I found out he got that footage from the Gameboy game called "Qix" and according to its manual on page 16 it says: At the end of a 1 PLAYER game, Mario will give you a performance which changes depending on your score. See how many different ones you can achieve. The manual claims those "Mario's" to be the SAME Mario.
Mario defeated dreamy bowser, who was amped by an infinite number of dreams. And thanks to mario party we know that dreams are universe… We also know mario is capable of piloting the star diver which travels several hundred lightyears in seconds. Hed be able to react to sonic.
@@user-rw5xg4vt9u Don't bring up Mario party, it's not canon. Literally every single character in the roster can escape the black hole then, making this feat not impressive. Moreover, he just dies in Mario galaxy if he falls into a black hole lmao
@@paulo547lets keep in mind base mario defeated bowser whom survived being sucked into an exploded black hole. Sonic had to be saved by the wisp after being sucked up by a black hole. Mario party is confirmed to detail cannon events aswell
@@chuckflashtbf the black hole sonic ran from was charged by alien energy and knowing Eggman he would have gone for a damn powerful and merry source. I mean the chaos emeralds literally blew up half the moon so who knows what the alien energy can do
Sonics speed is pretty much auto win for him against mario, I don't even understand why this is a debate bc while mario can be a lot more powerful than most people perceive him the only advantage he has in this fight is raw strength & durability which even then isn't too much since sonic can withstand his limbs moving at lightspeed
Hey. Gonna chime in here with my 2 cents. You're ABSOLUTELY right in saying that Sonic would win the fight. He's all that and teaches people to be very kind to each other, so he wins in that area as well, like when did Mario ever have a "Mario Says" or an equivalent of that in one of his cartoons? Never. Anyway, I am very glad to have Sonic in my life as I am an extreme Sonic fan.
Nah Mario could win too. Mario always teaches people to be kind to each other and he's pretty kind to everyone and he isn't snarky like Sonic is at times. He didn't, but he also wasn't an asshole in the comics either.
6:44 In fact the sonic ceo in a difficult interview said that sonic speed is relative to the flash, which is mind boggling cause he’s taking about modern sonic not archie sonic, even though this statement needs to be proven in canon, but still people underestimate sonic’s actual speed.
How is talking about these two characters fighting “Console Wars” Are you that stupid? Also, using bold doesn’t make your argument any better. Sonic wins over Mario, end of conversation.
This has been a debate for like 30 years, me and you will die before this debate is finished. And bro this ain’t PlayStation and Xbox we all know Nintendo slammed sonic and bitched him, literally bought sega. Crazy
being a fan of both mario and sonic i'm aware of what both can do, and with all of the credit that sonic gets it's also kinda weird that people overlook when compairing feats and stuff like solaris which people don't tend to give 06 a second thought, sonic defeating gods and beings beyond time and space it's self i mean mario has done the same if not for the games that are canon to the storyline as each indiviaul mario has been recently confirmed it's just mario like the ones in the canon story are from super mario bros. through 64 up to sunshine and odyseey also having mario party 5 being canon being linked to dream team and paper mario since the dream port holds infinite amount of dreams and universes and parrelle universes which a dreamy bowser had control of and mario fought him on the same turf with luigi in the dream world. lets also not forget that in galaxy mario has survived a universe level hell even multiversal event with bowsers's star reactor and even fighting a grand star bowser in base form who was moving at the center of the universe with a black hole consuming stuff. and with mario party 5 being canon and them having minigames in there with out running a black hole that obviously gives mario atleast a leg up despite sonic being way faster. and mario is also strong too in base form from majority of his fights with bowser and or in the rpg games. but honestly ignoring game mechanics and junk like that mario dying to lava same could be said for sonic being super but drowning and or being crushed. it can honestly go either way for mario or sonic because they're both stacked up on abilities. it's good video but i'm noticing a slight bias abit
@@nithinshakthithiruppathi4028 Story books series is canon to sonic's timeline too so not even mention how broken the excaliber sonic and dark spine are
@@TCBlueFire it is sadly like mainly sonic bais and thats a constant trend i see, like no disrespect to this person but honestly i'm sick and tired people not doing extentive research on both characters for it to be a valid arguement. because mario and sonic are just as powerful if not equals in strength and junk. Mario has fast the same amount of threats that sonic also faces. Especially with begins like Erazer Jin,Solaris, Chaos, and The END and the Time eater and Dark gaia. along with eggman doing stuff. same could be said for Antasma,Culex,Super Dimenio,Fawful,Cackletta, Count Bleck and his Goons, not to mention Bowser on multiple occassions who progressively gets stronger and more powerful each time he fights him. like put some actual respect on mario for once instead of selling him short
This plumber can go toe to toe with a being that can survive black holes, lava, and a dip in the sun. He can even throw him far away with just his base power. He's basically similar to knuckles when fighting sonic. Meaning he's not weak without power ups.
@@AnotherScaleneTriangleIDK why I have to explain this. “Cannon” does not mean main series or Main Cannon. Paper Mario isn’t the same as Main Cannon Mario, RPG Mario I’m pretty sure has been directly stated to be non-cannon, And Superstar Saga is DEFINITELY not the same as Cannon Mario.
@@complete8423 LMAO. First of all, it's "canon". Second of all, Miyamoto himself stated in a The Legend Zelda Breath Of The Wild interview that every Mario from the games is the same Mario unlike Link. And third there is a LOT of hints that games are connected like Mario & Luigi referencing Paper Mario and the first Mario and The Seven Star Children from Yoshi's Island DS and The Seven Star Spirits from Paper Mario 64.
Super Sonic is not invincible? Explain why Knuckles punch Super Sonic out of his body. Form in "Sonic & Knuckles" beginning of the cutscene. It's true That we all see Knuckles did the same thing with Doctor Robotnik while using the Master Emerald in the Sonic movie 2. Edit: Yall, just remember. He either got hit and loses his super from by those giant robots in Sonic Frontiers.
The conclusion is that it’s been stated in the games before that the master emerald neutralises the power of the chaos emeralds and so when Eggman told knuckles that a super powers sonic was coming to steal the emerald, knuckles used the power of the master emerald to neutralise super sonic. As for frontiers I have no clue how lasers beat him however it’s ancient tech and the ancients were from a different planet so we don’t know what resources they could have used to build that laser
@@gsm4919 knuckles didnt know how to use it till adventure 1, your info is invalid. also the lasers are apparently slightly weaker than the eclipse canon
@@Reset2150676 what gave you the idea that knuckles didn’t know how to use the emeralds. I would say he did since he can harness the power of the super emeralds which are like master emeralds themself
Sonic speed can be used against sonic himself because Mario has reflexes, if sonic run so fast and mario hit him with his ultra hammer on his head, it's like a car that driving at high speed and crashing into a wall
You make an excellent point of characters different versions, but I don't think it's really like that I think that the mainline games all have the same Mario (From SMB to Wonder, including Donkey Kong and Mario Bros), while the Mario & Luigi games have different Marios, so do the spin-offs (I know some characters like Toadette were introduced in spin-offs, but I don't think it really matters), while Paper Mario (And debatably Dr. Mario) Are completely different characters, I do agree that Sonic would win by just existing and people that keep talking about who would win just don't get what makes Mario and Sonic special Also some corrections 9:10 99 seconds? 13:14 Mario isn't that bad against black holes, I know this is probably gameplay mechanics being gameplay mechanics but in Galaxy he can stand a decent distance away from black holes before being consumed by them Also, I'm not very sure about Sonic teleporting or cloning himself, I think that he just moves so fast he just tricks the eye into believing that
I would say he can still make clones. The grand slam animation does show that the clones are see through, just like every other energy attack that Super Sonic has. So base form Sonic can't really create clones, but Super Sonic can. And if base form Sonic has at least one emerald, he could very easily teleport using Chaos Control. It is normally Shadow's thing, but he has used it before. So Sonic can do both, but they also aren't really essential in his kit, especially when Sonic can already go fast enough to deal as much damage as those clones and he can also just run wherever he wants most of the time.
Which game is that again? Melee, or brawl? Anyways, Sonic's super form is TOO powerful. Sure, in some games, is pretty much just speed monitor and invincibility monitor, but in other ones like Generations or Frontiers, it can defeat gods with JUST that form. Sure, you could also say "Oh, but in generations, there's two of him, so he's two times stronge-" SHUT UP. It wasn't the help of the past and present versions of himself that allowed him to defeat the Time Eater, but it was his friends cheering him on. All of them, both timelines. And this is without even MENTIONING some other forms that could questionably be stronger than Super, like maybe the unused potential o f the TIME STONES. Like, what could those things do? could they make Sonic so fast that he exists in the past, present and future? different timelines, all at once. And another thing, what about HYPER SONIC?? He was used in one game alone. We don't even know what he can do, because like I said earlier, it was kind of like a stacked speed monitor and invincibility with sort of like a flash step. Think about that.
@@MintflameThe2nd And don't even forget Dark sonic, Darkspine sonic,Super Sonic 2 (in frontiers DLC) and Ultra sonic who can literally destroy timelines because as The force formula relies on speed with more speed being more power And since sonic can travel 329 Octillion or 329 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 times the speed of light, and light speed is near 300million Kilometers per second, if you were to put this speed into the formula it would be able to end Galaxies and even A portion of the observable universe and one more thing, The speed I just told you was of sonic base form and since super sonic has infinite speed that means sonic can destroy reality itself, screw universes and multiverses bro can end reality as we know it
Honestly, with this video. There are multiple things that I disagree with. I'm going to deliver a few counterarguments. If anyone wants to respond to this, don't be a toxic jerk like the people on Twitter. 1. COMPOSITE MARIO In Death Battle's defense, Mario as a universe is fairly inconsistent. One minute, Yoshi speaks complete sentences, and the next minute, he's simply saying his own name over and over like a pokemon. One minute, Cranky Kong is DK's grandfather, the next, he's simply his father. Also, it's not outlandish to say that other media like the Manga or the 2023 Movie can be used (with the exception of Paper Mario and the 1993 film, of course), let alone all of the video games, especially when later games like Super Mario Odyssey reference past media as early as Super Mario Bros on the nes. Put it this way, Sonic is more similar to that of anime or comic book characters like Goku or Spider Man, meanwhile Mario is more comparable to your Saturday morning cartoon character that can be put in any situation imaginable. Shigeru Miyamoto states in an interview that Mario as a character is similar to Mickey Mouse, a character whose backgrounds are also fairly inconsistent. However, to say that each Mario is an entire different person in each installment of the main game series, because of how the game is played, is absolutely ridiculous. Meanwhile, Sonic is given basically everything he has, which is blatantly unfair on Mario's end, especially when considering Mario and other characters have always had the same personalities and basic abilities in the main series. 2. SONIC ADVANCE Advance Sonic is Classic Sonic? Then why is Sonic notably lankier. Why does he have green eyes, why is his fur much darker when compared to Sonic 1 and other classic games? In fact, Sonic Advance was released several months after Sonic Adventure 2, in which the actual classic era of Sonic officially ended a few years prior. 3. WEAKENING BOSSES Actually, the Time Eater has been shown weak to the Chaos Emeralds. As made evident by its reaction when bumping into the red emerald in one scene. So, technically, the Time Eater might be in the same boat. 4. SOLARIS Honestly, I think scaling Super Sonic to Solaris is wayyy too dubious for multiple reasons. First off, Solaris is drawing from powers that Super Sonic doesn't possess. Second, Sonic needed to exploit weak points all over Solaris' body in order to defeat Solaris. 5. SPEED Looking over at Mario Odyssey (yes I am using Odyssey), Mario has been shown quick enough to maneuver through electric wires. Electricity moves through wires at about 880,991 times faster than sound, or just over the speed of light. However, Sonic still takes this. In Sonic Prime, Sonic makes an incredible move between two lasers. In order to make these movements possible, he needed to move at over 9 times the speed of light. While it is faster than Mario, it's not as fast as Ty is making it out to be. Both could be increased even further with speed boosting power ups like the Super Star, Super Bell, Super Sneakers, or Super Sonic (phew, lotta super in one sentence). It does also go without saying that Sonic blows Mario outta the water in terms of travel speed. So there's that. 6. INVINCIBILITY As far as I'm seeing these things, the Invincibility Shield doesn't give an exact stat increase either unlike the Super Star. Even then, Mario has the rainbow star too, which also allows invincibility, though it doesn't offer a stat increase like the super star does. This is noticable in the Super Show cartoons, the Super Mario Bros Movie, and the Manga. On top of this, Mario has the Bottomless Gloves, which basically means he can pull as many power ups outta his butt as many times as he wants. The same can't be said for Sonic, who's basically stuck with whatever he's got. Though, Sonic's Cyloop can be used to pull more Rings out of the ground, which can be used to keep Super/Hyper Sonic sustained. So, both can just keep constantly feeding themselves Stars and Rings to outlast each other. So yeah, that alone? Not that much of a factor. 7. TIME LIMITS Sonic could have 999 rings... assuming that he just happens to have that many at the start of the fight. 8. POWER UP COMBOS Now, technically Mario can combine various power ups in the Manga. Of course, that is if you want to use the manga, there is debate over that, but the Manga arcs are general adaptations of the video games. Kinda like how Sonic X is an anime adaptation of various Sonic games from that era like Adventure or Battle. 9. TANOOKI MARIO CAN'T FLY There are instances where Mario can fly with the Super Leaf. The Tanooki leaf in-game can be upgraded with a P-wing, which does allow for infinite flight. Additionally, in other media like the Super Mario Bros Movie, Mario is capable of actual flight. 10. TAGGING SONIC Of course, you can argue this for Sonic as well, but Mario can use the stopwatch and freeze time on Sonic, which is something that he shows no immunity to. That's made especially clear in his fights against Shadow. Of course, Sonic can likely use Chaos Control to freeze time, but he's never used it in canon, unlike Shadow. 11. LAVA Actually, Mario can still take lava based abilities and moves. Though in the Manga, it is shown that the White Tanooki form doesn't make Mario completely invincible. It also doesn't help that Mario can stand inside of a burning sun while fighting Bowser in Galaxy. Furthermore, Hyper Sonic isn't that much better given that he can still get crushed by moving platforms. This is the problem. I'm seeing Mario being downplayed through common game mechanics with Sonic not being given the same treatment. 12. DURABILITY Looking at what both Mario and Sonic has pulled off and what they can scale to. Mario is durable enough to take hits from Donkey Kong who could punch the moon down to Earth, given the mass of the moon and the speed of which it moved, DK must've hit it with a force equal to 41 ninatons of TNT. Heck, he was taking hits from him back to back, and has even defeated him multiple times. Super Sonic draws power from the Chaos Emeralds. In Sonic Unleashed, the Emeralds were so powerful that they could move pieces of the Earth around. Given the mass of the Earth and the speed of which each piece was moved, this would require about 2.8 yottatons of TNT. So, Mario surprisingly has a huge edge in durability, even over Super Sonic, and that's not including items that can increase his durability further, like the Metal box, the Mega Mushroom. But again, Hyper Sonic is completely invincible like the Super Star, and I've already talked about that. 13. SONIC CAN CREATE BLACK HOLES Sure, he does have abilities like the violet wisp, which allows Sonic to suck objects and enemies in and take them out via bfr (even though Mario can use the retry clock or earlier times to reset the fight with a clearer picture on how big of a threat Sonic actually is). However, outright summoning a black hole through sheer speed alone, is not something that Sonic, or even Super Sonic has ever performed. These are the kind of things that don't make a lot of sense in the context of a vs debate. Super Mario Bros and Sonic the Hedgehog don't follow the same laws of physics as our world. That's why Sonic doesn't blow up the planet every time he takes a step. It's Fiction. That being said, I don't hate Ty for making this. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I just have different views on how this would play out. For the record, Sonic could take the fight a few times out of a hundred. It's not like Mario wins 100% of the time. ...And yes Archie Sonic practically solos.
I agree with your points I also found this video kind of bias towards Sonic when he says that every Mario in each of his games is an entirely different Mario and his only reasoning for believing this is to base it all on the art style of the games (What I mean is him saying Mario from 64, Galaxy, and Odyssey are entirely different Mario’s). In fact, I can very easily debunk this theory by pointing towards Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Odyssey. In Sunshine when FLUDD is scanning Mario there’s a little video that shows Mario’s past adventures (Such as SMB1 and Super Mario 64 for example) and in Odyssey when Mario captures Bowser we see his memories which show the events of SMB1, SMB3, SMW, and SM64. Need more proof? Ok then look at Galaxy 2 in that game there’s a level called Throwback Galaxy and in this galaxy it’s Whomp’s Fortress and in that level you’ll notice that the walls that had a star in it that you needed the cannon to break are now gone. Which means Mario has been to this place before.
@@Duke-the-crow sonic in his base has immeasurable speed in sonic forces, archie sonic on the other hand speed is above game sonic speed, xeno goku speed is inaccruate and get debunked
If you finished the video Summary: The speed gap between sonic and Mario is so wide, that most of the fight would just be sonic landing multiple attacks, while Mario would have some problems trying to even defend himself. Both their arsenal of power ups are somewhat similar, and while Mario’s might last longer, sonic speed might make it difficult for Mario to even use them on sonic and land a good hit. Even at their best, sonic would have wider ray of abilities to utilize and with his speed, he could probably put Mario in a disadvantageous position.
@@friendlyneighborhoodnoobYeah like half of them are, but there are some different ones like the skateboard monitor in generations, the S monitor, etc.
No the speed gap is easily debunkable Mario has dodged lasers in the RPG games easily Lowballed FTL but he easily has Inaccessible speed because he was able to move in Tick tock Clock where time doesn't exist And his attempt at saying every single mario game is a different mario is A horrible attempt at the debunking mario
Adding something for sonic hax is that sonic is capable of using chaos control in super as shown in SA2. This would mean that he can instantly teleport,time travel on whim, stop time,etc
@@jaredwong-bynoe2750 Shadow is more experienced in using it than Sonic + the only time Sonic used Chaos Control was to teleport out of the Colony ark. Sonic only uses Chaos Control to time travel with Silver's emerald.
Archie Sonic casually survives and undoes the erasure of his universe with chaos control. Paper Mario casually lifting about 18,138.5 tons. Archie has speed, Paper has strength, and they both are durable because of the things they can do.
Mario fans really cant say anything thats why i dont say "mario vs sonic" someone is going to be bad so even if you just say facts they still going to say something back so thats why i dont like the frase
some of sonic's abilites Indomitable Will (His unbreakable spirit made Sage question his ability to persist despite being in a state where he could barely stand, allowing her to realize his drive comes from protecting those precious to him. Despite the various challenges and threats he faced during his time on the Starfall Islands, be it enduring his Cyber Corruption to hazardous encounters with the Titans, The End stated that Sonic's courage had never wavered) Accelerated Development (Training, Battle, Passive; Physical Stats, Abilities. Same as his Adventure Era-self. Defeated Metal Sonic in an Extreme Gear race even while the later had gathered everyone's data, having callibrated his style perfectly making him unbeatable on Gear by Eggman's own word. Became much faster after Colors as he could casually steal a chili dog without Tails being able to react to it. Kept exceeding Zig and Zavok's expectations after seeing him in action before. The Zeti even when teaming up continued to lose to Sonic despite being in confident in defeaing him when their power was overflowing thanks to Eggman's invention. Sonic grew stronger after six months of imprisonment in the Death Egg with his hands and knees bound. Was later stated to exceed previous data by Infinite during their second encounter, and stated himself to grow stronger every second[7] before later quickly overwhelming Infinite despite previously being on even ground minutes ago) Enhanced Non-Physical Interaction (Is able to naturally hit Vector's musical notes)[8] Pocket Reality Manipulation & Enhanced Dimensional Travel (Was able to break through Null Space and return to Earth using a Double Boost[9]) Enhanced Extrasensory Perception (Sonic can sense the attacks of his enemies) Void Manipulation (Conversion to Existence), Life Manipulation, & Space-Time Manipulation (Limited - Through his running. It’s noted by Classic Tails that when the Time Eater travels through time, it tears space apart and results in said locations being left as a void that leaves them "empty and dead". As stated by Modern Tails, both Sonics are able to accelerate through time to repair space as a consequence of their running; something he describes as “returning color and life”. In the JP script, the Sonics are noted to be restoring the flow of time by them running[10]) Activated: Greater Acrobatics (Consistently displays varying kinds of acrobatics; this ranges from leaping hundreds of meters in a single bound to differed methods of traversal. Sonic's entire movement and fighting style hones into doubling down on his athleticism combined with his speed, allowing him to employ it both in and out of combat. Even being in an environment with shifting gravity fails to slow him down so long as there are objects or enemies nearby for him to interact with)[11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22] Greater Afterimage Creation (Can create afterimages through sheer speed. Faster than Surge who can do the same)[20] Greater Air Manipulation (Capable of creating tornadoes both similar and larger than what he's shown prior)[23][24][21] Greater Attack Reflection and Self-Perception Amplification (Through his Parry, which slows things to a crawl without affecting Sonic himself should he parry an attack) Aura, Light Manipulation, Forcefield Negation, Telekinesis, and Limited Creation (Ability; All with his Cyloop. Sonic can encircle his enemy with it to shatter defenses which are impervious to his other attacks, can use his Cyloop as a way to grasp things without coming into physical contact with them, can spawn Rings with it) Danmaku and Shockwave Generation (Ability; With the Sonic Boom attack, which unleashes a flurry of powerful shockwaves at the enemy. Can knock opponents off their feet by slamming into the ground)[12] Energy Manipulation and Homing Attack (Ability; With the Homing Shot, Sonic can launch a volley of energy spheres that home in on his target) Hacking (Skills; Capable of hacking into Eggman's technology) Flight (Space Flight; Can use his Boost to freely propel himself through outer space) Time Manipulation (Ability; With Time Break, allowing him to slow down time for his opponents without repercussion to himself) Mind Restoration (Able to restore the minds of the Time Eater's victims with his speed) Chi Manipulation (Ability; Capable of manipulating his "Soul" Energy to achieve several affects, such as increasing his strength or speed) Damage Transferal, Energy Absorption, & Forcefield Creation (With his Guard Skill, Sonic Guard, Sonic can defend himself by creating a pulsing purple barrier that transfers half the damage received as energy for his Ichikoro Gauge; a gauge that will build up energy from being struck, guarding against attacks, and healing himself) Statistics Amplification(The Ichikoro Gauge allows Sonic to knock out comparable opponents in one hit once enough energy is transferred to it) Healing (Ability; With Sonic Heal, he can heal from any damage he may have taken by vibrating his molecules at high speeds Momentum Manipulation (Ability; When performing the Drop Dash, Sonic stores up momentum before releasing it all in one instant to propel himself in a specific direction) Explosion Manipulation (Ability; With Sonic Crackers, which are landmines) Invulnerability (Ability; With Sonic Boom) Status Effect Inducement (Ability; With Somersault Kick) Darkness Manipulation Transmutation (Ability; Via Ring Time) Statistics Amplification (Ability; With Phantom Rush, Color Powers, Soul Surge, Drop Dash, Sonic Boom, Speed Up, Acceleration Up, Attack Support, Boost Mode, and Shahra's Ring) Damage Reduction (Ability; Passively increases his defense to take less damage from attacks with Strength Support) Resurrection (Ability; Can resurrect to be brought back after death at the cost of Soul Energy) Limited Spatial Manipulation (Ability; Sonic's speed can "fix space")
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i mean like, technically if a sonic vs mario game comes out it really just depends on who is making the game
Ty quick question who would win Minecraft Steve or sonic?🤔🤔
your bias and sonic would win he has hyper sonic super sonic and god boom sonic we have not even seen in the show
Unless Steve went creative mode
Finnaly a person who agrees with me
To be honest Super Sonic can stay in tht form for days its shown in Sonic advance. The ring limit is just a game mechanic.
Even then, while the game mechanic is a time limit, Sonic can still stay in his Super form as long as he still has enough rings. In the final battle of SA2, one of the things you can do mid fight is switch between Super Sonic and Super Shadow so that one can fight the Final Hazard while the other charges up on rings. In short, as long as Sonic keeps getting rings as Super Sonic, he can stay in his super form for as long as he so desires, and this applies to both lore and game mechanics.
It wouldn't matter anyway, even if it wasn't a game mechanic but actually part of the lore, sonic can just cyloop and restore his rings
Makes sense because in Sonic X they Dont need rings.
@@Tyrecordslol There’s one thing that people don’t think about when talking about Super Sonic. Super Sonic is not invincible there are plenty of times we’ve seen Super Sonic take damage to something.
@@RaccoonThunderMario_Officialbrother I know what you mean because of frontiers but those hits were weak if sonic will still standing because no matter what sonic keeps on fighting
I’m a hardcore Mario fan, but even I agree that Sonic wins, no questions asked
Wait. I just had a thought. If death battle made Mario win while including other versions of himself, doesn’t that mean Archie sonic should’ve been allowed for fairness?
Mario defeated dreamy bowser, who was amped by an infinite number of dreams. And thanks to mario party we know that dreams are universe…
We also know mario is capable of piloting the star diver which travels several hundred lightyears in seconds. Hed be able to react to sonic.
@@awesomeblacka4423 They specifically said they weren’t including Archie Sonic in that fight
He doesn’t win
@@chuckflash it's crazy how thats over looked even a base mario could fight a bowser who treanted to destroy the dream port that has infinite universes and paralle dimensions
👇sonic team
6:39 A good thing worth considering is everytime sonic has a "limit" to how fast he goes. That's not his max speed, that's how fast he's willing to go safely. Imagine him going crazy fast through cities like in Unleashed and he constantly creates Sonic Booms because he'd break the sound barrier on multiple occasions. Given he's all about protecting and helping others from flickies to people, he definitely would limit how fast he should actually go.
In this battle there’s likely gonna be no flickeys or anything
I watched a video on even base sonic's speed at the max. as soon as he enters his max speed zone he ligit breaks a universe because of the force and friction of his step and even before sonic really runs the earth is obliterated and so is the solar system
SONIC ADVANCE LORE
@@xD4NNYx Yes but be careful according to some comments Mario beats Sonic in 1v1 and apparently hyper sonic can't do anything against superstar mario 🤣🤣
That’s why sonic runs faster in the movies he still doesn’t know how dangerous his speed could be
Finally, this guy understands that Mario couldn’t beat Sonic
A small correction on the Super form. Since the Advance games are canon, the super form can easily last for a few days. The rings are a gameplay mechanic that don’t actually apply to him as a character. Also, faster than light is the BARE MINIMUM for his speed.
But yeah, great video! I love that you give Mario his best stuff, and push him to his limits regardless of how it’d end the same way anyway.
Actually, that argument can be deflected… But, I do have one the is indisputably true.
Death Egg Zone, Sonic the Hedgehog 2.
Sonic runs out of the Death Egg and activates Super Sonic, saving himself from the fall. So, you may be thinking, he just used rings. But wait, THERE ARE NO RINGS ON THE DEATH EGG. In cannon, those fights are done damagless, Sonic has 0 rings. Meaning that he activated and maintained Super Sonic, with 0 rings.
So yeah, ring limit is 100% just a game mechanic.
@@complete8423 He also survived a black hole with no rings. So it's ABSOLUTELY just a game mechanic.
Not to mention some canon games don't even USE rings. Black Knight being the one that comes to mind.
But yeah, Super Sonic FARRRR outlasts Mario.
That scene in Advance was off-screen. Considering the abundance of Rings in space, Super Sonic could’ve easily survived, and there are various cutscenes where Rings function like they do in gameplay. Mania scenes, Sonic having to knock the Rings out of SA2 Shadow to defeat him in Generations, Rings being brought up in numerous cutscenes like when Tails acknowledges Eggman using Rings to build his themepark or Silver stealing Tails’ Rings, etc.
@@How_to_Get_Soloed_101
Rings do exist in the lore, but they are not needed for Sonic to maintaing a Super Form or take a hit, they just help with both, but are not needed.
Rings are literally a shield for sonic until he’s hurt has anyone watched sonic prime??
Honestly at this point, comparing Mario to Sonic is like comparing a grenade to a hydrogen bomb.
com Mario vs com sonic
Paper Mario and Mario kun Carrys
@@chris1229sonic Ah yes, paper figures "carry". Argument of all time
@@Corvolet5 strength wise
@@chris1229sonicwater:
@@Plurbi he doesn’t die from water
loving the videos bro, actually stopped what i was working on to finish watching this, keep it up!
Damn I didn't think a guy who thinks Peppa pig is a serial killer would make a power scaling video and give good points
I know right😅
Peppa pig is like 7 feet tall and she's a kid
@@miguelmendoza854imagine daddy pig
He really lowballed mario tho
@@Darkdesires186 Exactly. He doesn't know how to scale.
This debate is probably never gonna end. Not mad tho.😂
“possibilities are never ending”
@@laurenmcfarlane6490”I see it, I see it and now it's all within my reach”
@@Remag-mt2xv "Endless possibilityyyyyyy!"
@@DankMemeKing “I see it, I see it now; it’s always been inside of me”
Some debates are fun it’s a good way to show knowledge and love for a series it’s only when the insults starts or the debates turn to shipping🤮 in franchises where romance is not the focus do they become unpleasant
this debate have been going on for 30 years and i dont think people would stop
10 years shouldve already been a red flag 💀
Probably cause Mario fans love to debate
EXCELLENT WORK.
Sonic fans are miffed that the GameCube/GBA era was when the series was at its pinnacle. So they’ve gotta extract their untapped aggression on Mario.
@@paulgilbert5278 what
My Sunday was interrupted by this beautiful science lesson
As a Super Mario fan, I know damn well that Mario has no chance defeating Sonic at all, so I have to admit that Sonic takes the W
Edit: this fucking war is still going on, HELP ME 😭
(Mario out swimming a black hole in Mario party): am I a joke to you?
You do realize that White Tanooki Mario dying to lava has the same reasoning behind it as to why Hyper Sonic dies by being crushed right with it being a gameplay restriction since otherwise you can break a lot of the lava levels with it? Also Sonic has never escaped a black hole before only outrun it for a bit same as how Mario was able to swim from it in Mario Party
@@RaccoonThunderMario_Official oh, okay. But I really don't remember when Mario swimming out of a black hole tho 😂
@@trixx_w now that had me 😂
@@AnthonyMarioGamer64_YT Type in “Mario Party Black Hole Boogie”
And to top it all off, sega had to remove hyper sonic from the series because it's so overpowered that it can literally destroy walls by just touching them (shown in game) and can even breathe underwater.
Plus being able to flash an entire screen, killing anything in sight
It's so strong, it can even kill some of the players
Fax
Mario can breathe underwater in base
@@haloboy3349 then how can he drown in the 3d games?
Even though I’ve seen like 1 million videos this one has to be my favourite
When u really think about it as long as sonic has rings he’s technically invulnerable
Sometimes as a Mario and Sonic fan, I really absolutely despise the two fighting.
The two are basically friends nowadays
Red midget and his alien blue friend... wait... that's just Lilo and Stitch...
@@mikedanielespeja6128 wouldn't even be suprised if Disney took inspiration from them
An italian vietnam veteran and a furry with blue hair and pronouns.... that sounds like an amazing friendship!
@@friendlyneighborhoodnoob indeed
@@friendlyneighborhoodnoobThat fury who once used to be a Cosmo warrior and a MMA fighter.
dam worth it watching his long term vids he is actually really observative
Now that’s what I call accurate
I disagree with the "SM64, Galaxy, Odyssey Mario are different Marios." because they are most likely the same Mario.
Other than that this video is really accurate. Also if Mario had the white Tanooki Suit I would just teleport him into Marble Zone or somethin.
Yeah that was the one point I really didn't agree with. Obviously Paper Mario is the only real different Mario but the rest are the same character. Speaking of which, it's important to differentiate Paper Mario from regular Mario because Paper Mario is whooping Sonic's ass any day of the week. Which is why that specific version of Mario is often paired against Archie Sonic which is a much more fair fight.
@@SonicSwift99Shigeru Miyamoto literally confirmed that every mario is the SAME mario... Also, paper Mario references several things from the mainline games. Same goes for the rpg games.
@@CatfishMys EXACTLY
@@CatfishMys Doesn’t matter what anybody says if the material shows otherwise. The head of Sonic Team wants Sonic Prime to be canon yet that show is impossible to place in the main canon thanks to the many inconsistencies. Same goes for the Archie and IDW comics, which also mention past games.
@@CatfishMys so i guess movie mario is the same as video game mario by your logic
Interesting video. You have really good points honestly
Nah
@@paulgilbert5278man sthu 💀
As an honorable mention and fun fact, there's a secret red star power up in Super Mario Galaxy 1 that basically lets Mario fly freely, unlike the wing cap that has that whole momentum flying system going on in SM64
im pretty sure sonic would be able to steal any powerup that mario uses
@@noob3702
Correct brother
Every canon Mario is the same Mario
Black holes actually don’t heat up unless they’ve eaten a star recently. Besides that, if you find a lone black hole with nothing around it, it’s a cold death from there.
Actually a good video with good points. Finally. Didnt even mention archie comics scaling cuz he doesnt even need it
Some of the points he makes aren’t actually true
@@quikskoprbro968Cope
@@Shonin23you cope
Sonic is built to be that guy in a fight
"Mario is spear-chuckin' black-" 💀
Nintendo is drunk, wanna know why? They made a disturbing music in Super Paper Mario named "River Twygz Bed"
I also find it funny too, a majority of kids games with the most bizzare and disturbing soundtracks are made by Nintendo, the most frightening and unnerving being the Giygas theme from Earthbound. Idk why they do it, either for fun or there is something far more sinister. Either way it's messed up.
P.S, actually even SEGA US branch made a disturbing final boss theme in Sonic CD, and another bizzare soundtrack in SA2, idk what that was. But yeah, even SEGA has sometimes also added absurd soundtracks to kid-friendly games.
people discussing Mario vs sonic: "alright so no extra lives, broken power ups, and no abilities specific to one game"
people discussing Mario vs sephiroth: "um dont you know Mario is multiverse level and can deflect supernova right back at him"
This comment is just cringe💀
Without game mechanics mario is actually stronger 💀💀
@@thelegendarymarioman8461if we’re talking about no game mechanics, that’s sonic. Or not could be wrong.
Why do people forget M&L? Mario doesn’t need game mechanics to clap Sonic
@@paulgilbert5278im pretty sure that isnt cannon because of marios inconsistencies and the fact that its extremely different compared to other games
Bruh you forgot Archie sonic which can punch someone one so hard that it deletes over 3 billion dimensions and runs faster than the cameraman🗿🗿
Not cameraman
The Archie comics on a canon only the IDW comics
Ahh yeah i can see the fact that Sonic wins and as a fan as both of them I appreciate the fact that you took the time to actually specify the Mario you were using and and you bring up actual logic and fun fact did you know we where extremely close to getting an Archie Mario
we already have a mario kun, we don't need an archie mario
we already have a mario kun, we don't need an archie mario
That's actually a theory
I love both of them, but these were all facts for my childhood hero to come out on top, Everyone always does forgets about hyper sonic cause he was only in one game sadly but its imagine modern sonic being able to go hyper
Well, Ian Flynn stated that hyper sonic would've been in frontiers, but due Sega not liking the idea, it was scrapped.
@@leiftoons5644 Lets be fr Hyper Sonic was gonna be too op
@@tankmoneyz2035 ehh I guess
I love Mario, and it dosent bother me at all that Sonic stomps Mario.
This is the first time I’ve seen anyone bring up the fact sonic has his own super star power up, makes you wonder why no one talks about it
No one talks about it because the super star is better because it lasts longer
@@trixx_wnot really. Sonics invincibility power up lasts 20 seconds in sonic 3 which would beat Mario’s 15 seconds
Because of Super Sonic which is clearly better?
@@AnotherScaleneTriangle thing is he wouldn’t even need to use super sonic, the 2nd comment said that in sonic 3 it lasts for 20 seconds so he could just stall out Mario’s superstar power up and speed blitz him
@@wubproductions9755 Star Mario isn't even close to the Pure Hearts
I feel like sonic would just run laps around mario as he could do nothing about it then he'd start beating mario like there's no future just to show he could.
If we factor in personality, I'd say Sonic would go easy on Mario to do a buncha quips.
yea mario gets soloed so easily that sonic can just form a tornado and fling mario 💀
8:42 another thing nobody brings up is that Sonic’s invincibility item needs to be stronger in order to surpass is base durability than Mario’s does for Mario
By the way, Sonic can survive the force when inside a black hole. In Zero Gravity, he just goes in, casually beats a god, and then its fin. And in base form too!
I totally agree. I have been a fan of mario but sonic is just better. The quote “Running around at the speed of sound” always got me when I was a kid and made me like sonic. The sonic vs mario debate is probably over because of this video.
👆🤓
Trust me, this debate will probably never end, and I don’t think this video would end it.
So you admit sonic wins because you like sonic better 💀💀
@@thelegendarymarioman8461 Exactly.
@BehemothOrga21445 so ur being biased?
As a massive Sonic fan, I'll give some benefit to Mario with powerscaling and say it's a close fight. I think Mario's power ups and durability can give him the win against base Sonic but Super Sonic would whoop him especially after the Frontiers' buffs.
But not enough to beat shadow
Literally biased.
Sonic has gained durability in Frontiers, considering he can parry any attacks and can do a pseodo chaos control for a few seconds.
@@CatfishMys How? A lot of people here are saying that Mario stands no chance while I said that Mario actually has a win con.
@@SonicSwift99 It's still biased... from my pov, it just sounds like you don't know much of what Mario's actually capable of, like majority of the commenters in the comment section.
Sonic could beat Mario on a Monday morning without even leaving his house and without a chilly dog
Yeah Mario Lopez maybe. But the Mario of Nintendo can solo him.
Man this video was awesome! Can you do mario vs Goku???
"Game mechanics won't be used"
10:48
12:13
am i the only one that actually see this
@@squidzytispog No you are not, friend
Tell me in which part of the video he says this, 'cuz i can' t really find it
@@paulo547 0:31
@@DJ792YT Well he didn't refer to the whole game mechanics, but only some of them. Time limit, death by falling, or travelling through the map weren't allowed. It's still valid
No joke, Sonic easily can take Mario in a death battle, even if Mario is in his golden tanooki suit, and sonic is in base form, sonic could grab and dump him into lava before Mario even realizes he’s moving
ye right and let's be real sonic has more strength than mario in any of his forms even the golden tanooki
Thing is wouldn’t base sonic die the moment he touches Mario due to the golden tanooki suit auto killing anything Mario touches
@@wubproductions9755 well what if sonic boosted into him that will kill mario ofc
@@wubproductions9755 Super Sonic is the same thing so it would be a stalemate. But the golden tanooki suit is non standard in the first place as the only way Mario can obtain it is by dying first.
@@wubproductions9755 even if he manages to get this, Sonic can always use rocks or other objects that aren’t considered a living being, as Mario’ golden tanooki does not effect any non living objects, most notably being ground. Meaning sonic could use a large chunk of ground to work as gloves and shove him into lava
Paper Mario vs Classic Sonic would be a perfect fight
It would be cool to see a Sonic vs Wally West video (I think Sonic wins but I want to see your thoughts on it)
Finally someone who understands both of the worlds
Bro literally lowballed Mario beyond comprehension. Saying “not all Mario’s are the same Mario” was already a huge red flag 💀
@JugularJohn For real. If he knew about Mario he’d bring up the RPGS specifically Mario and Luigi
@@JugularJohnquit being mad, we all know marios inconsistencies
@@noob3702 now how am I being mad when I’m simply saying “this lowballed Mario and hella glazed Sonic” which it clearly did. And what does Mario’s “inconsistencies” have to do with the argument? Sonic has as much inconsistencies as Mario. I’m not letting someone who’s clearly biased to Sonic tell me off
I do love mario and sonic tho but sonic solos tho❤
I have to agree
Yeah but tiny detail that is sometimes overlooked is that Mario and sonic are friends
@@TOS_563. fr fr
Game mario and sonic = mario wins
Movie mario and sonic = sonic win
Strongest forms of mario and sonic = sonic
@@Thing_of_somes no, ty just broke down why sonic solos, he only used game sonic because archie sonic is overkill, sonic can beat mario through sheer speed alone, he almost outran a blackhole in his base form and he didnt outrun it just because he was tired and had 0 rings sonic just negs
We need Mario into the Mario verse and Mario across the Mario verse
Mario threw a baseball so fast it overloaded a speed gun.
Sonic trow a water so fast it turn solid
And sonic ran so fast he outrun the rain without a single drop on him
About comp Mario, while I agree that Paper Mario and Mario are different, I do think it is implied in the series that Mario from the mainline games (64, Galaxy, Sunshine, etc) is canonically the same Mario. Visual differences of the Marios is not canon, rather hardware limitations at the time, and there was never any implication in the games and lore that the different Marios across games were actually different people, unlike Sonic who has interacted with and fought alongside classic Sonic. No Marios have ever done this in the way Sonic has, and besides paper Mario there was never talk of timelines and a multiverse of Mario. I think for a fair fight we shouldn’t assume each mainline game is a different Mario in canon just because other franchises like Sonic or Spider Man do similar things. The only one who’s actually different is Paper Mario.
Just a correction about the hyper form it’s powered by the super emeralds not the master emerald (the super emeralds are the chaos emeralds in their peak power so sonic using them was able to ascend beyond his super forms power)
The master emerald can allow hyper because it’s the most powerful emerald
@@stale0610 when mecha sonic used the master emerald he turned super not hyper
@@adamsalt9459the master emerald powers the chaos emeralds into super emeralds and without that, hyper form wouldnt exist
Bro turned into a DEATH BATTLE channel lol
Well he’s got the poor research skills so yeah you’re on to something
We need Bowser vs eggman
I would actually love to hear your takes on other Mario vs. Sonic match ups, like Luigi vs. Tails, Bowser vs. Eggman, ect.
Also, I don't think rings will be a problem for Sonic, since he could always just summon more like in Frontiers.
or in nazo unleased where shadic grabs rings from all over the world
Luigi isn’t expanded in enough really.
I wish he was cause he’s my 2nd favourite Mario character but there’s just not enough info on him. Bowser vs Eggman would be cool but I think the egghead would win. Bowsers just brute strength while Eggman has workarounds to that
@@gsm4919 I mean, Bowser does have a few power ups like Grand Star and Dreamy.
@@lucygardiner7594 Nazo Unleashed it's fanom bruh, like SMBZ.
@@cirnosnumberfan6449 Dreamy bowser isn’t really a power-up. He had to inhale a stone to achieve that form and with eggmans machinery he would get to the stone first provided he knew what it did. He’s also come into contact with power like that before. In a game called sonic shuffle there are stones called precious stones that have the kind of same power. As for grandstars, have we actually seen what they can do. We’ve seen them be used to achieve light speed but that’s it Im pretty sure
This man did a better video on this debate than death battle
Facts
True
Pure facts
He didn’t
“Oh boo who the character I think loses won”
Deathbatte did a great animation and imo, more accurate victor with less accurate research
@@cupoochie4374 just because they did a good animation doesn’t make it automatically better
Bros is combining science and game logic 😮😂
I ain’t ever knew sonic scaled higher then Bill Cipher
Bro literally unlocked unforseen brain power we never thought he could unleash like all these calculations are just insane
I'm gonna split my response up into parts because the comment was so long that it crashed my CZcams.
First of all, the Paper Mario and Mario aren't the same person argument is actually been proven wrong: In the original Paper Mario, Goombario's Tattle will state that Mario has been fighting Goombas ever since Super Mario Bros. This is a direct callback to the game itself. static.wikia.nocookie.net/debatesjungle/images/b/b1/Goombario-PaperMarioCanon.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20211027064505
Goombario is generally smart when it comes to his knowledge on things, as his Tattle demonstrates this. He's also a big fan of Mario, and the events of SMB are popular enough to be seen in plays or appear in Bowser's own realms. Thus, Goombario is a reliable source.
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Back to Paper Mario, we can read Luigi's Diary in his secret basement. Luigi writes about how the adventure stuff is difficult, and he enjoyed playing Golf, Tennis, and throw Parties. These are obvious callbacks to Mario Golf, Tennis, and Party. And while I am well aware that the Paper Mario series has referenced a sports title, mainly Mario Kart, it should be well noted that these were not intended to be their own paper versions, as at the time Paper Mario released, it was alongside the N64 era. Thus it's most likely they are direct callbacks to those N64 era games. This would also need to be the case for continuity sake.
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Luigi also notes in his diary that he's afraid of ghosts, a personality trait that was established before Luigi's Mansion and later on used in other games.
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Paper Mario is considered a sequel to Super Mario RPG, at least in terms of its lore and story. The general plot of Paper Mario is Bowser stealing the Star Rod to grant his own wishes. However, it just so happens that Super Mario RPG is also a game where wishing is its main focus. The general plot for RPG is that Smithy sent Exor to destroy Star Road (remember this location, it's important) in order to stop people from making wishes. So why are these two games connected? Well because the Star Rod is what is used to grant wishes in Super Mario RPG. How do we know this? Well we know that as Geno battles Bowyer, he mentions that he works for a "higher authority", and was sent to get back each Star Piece.
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But who exactly are those higher authorities? This is where Paper Mario's Star Spirits come in. The Star Spirits are the watcher over the Star Rod, and are meant to be the protectors of it.
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However, you might think this isn't enough. For further proof, let's go back to Geno. If you are unfamiliar with Super Mario RPG, Geno is actually just someone possessing a toy. You might notice something, and that is that Geno's true form is that of a star.
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He's a star, just like the Star Spirits. You might think this is just some coincidence, however this further relates to Paper Mario. We know that Geno is a star who works for higher authorities, and Paper Mario just so happens to have someone similar. That being Twink.
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Twink is also a Star who was sent down to help others by higher authorities, just like Geno. Thus they share the same occupation and general roles, connecting themselves. It should be noted that Stars are just a general species within the Mario universe. We won't stop there, remember Star Road? I hope so, because the two locations are also the same.
Star Road (also called Star World) actually first comes from Super Mario World, making a further connection of a mainline title to other games. Star Road in both Super Mario RPG and Paper Mario are stated to be above the clouds. Something Super Mario World also displays. (Sorry if the image is small)
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Both are star locations that are the location of were wishes are to be granted at. They both are star related locations (even if the names and place looks different, this is a general thing within Mario however). And they are both where Star-beings live at. If you're still not convinced, I present my final argument. How are the wishes granted? Wishes are described to take shape into a Wish Star, and become little shooting stars. Paper Mario directly says this is also how wishes are formed.
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Additionally, if we fast forward to Paper Mario: Color Splash, we can also directly see Mario and Huey make a wish. Which is done as a shooting star.
That was a lot of connections. I guess Paper Mario being a scrapped Super Mario RPG 2 makes far more sense now. Back to more connections using... the same two games. Kind of.
In Paper Mario, we see Mario be able to take the form of his NES-self, an obvious callback to his older adventures. Super Mario RPG actually does the exact same thing. Side-note, but Mario looking pixel-like is a canon thing he has acknowledged himself
(Super Mario All-Stars Japanese Manual, Pages 121 & 123)
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And this is just from Paper Mario. There are other instances where his canonicity contradicts what happened in the game. And no, in terms of canon, yes, Paper Mario is the strongest Mario. But when you ignore that, it's actually Mario-Kun from the manga. And it should also be known that Time Eater can't be scaled to 11D while Super Dimentio can. "How?" You ask? Well, it's as simple as this. The Overwhere and Underwhere. Think of both of these realms as Heaven and Hell for example. What makes them scale to 11D is two things. Higher planes of existence, and String Theory Soup. The argument is Dimentio, who surpassed The Void, which was going to consume all existence--all worlds, all dimensions, all possibilities and all timelines. How did Dimentio surpass The Void? First off, Paper Mario and the others tanked The Void. But, that's not all that's important here. Mainly, look at Paper Mario's condition after The Void. He has been blasted interdimensionally back to Flipside, and is unconscious. Now, to compare, when Dimentio attacked, Paper Mario and his party was blasted--once again--interdimensionally to The Underwhere, and were once again rendered unconscious. The similarities definitely can't be ignored; Dimentio matched its power. But even then, he has points of surpassing it; his attack that he held back on, mind you, surpassed a tremor from The Void. He merely snapped his fingers without malicious intent, and his tremor shook Castle Bleck harder than all the tremors The Void caused; we know he was holding back because he didn't want to hurt Luigi; he needed him. And because String Theory Soup proves that the Marioverse's secrets reside within String Theory, which is a theory that supports 11-dimensionality, this feat was consuming eleven dimensions.
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Now, there's even more evidence backing up several aspects of this; to start, let's address doubts about The Void destroying dimensions. Next, let's talk about odd occurrences that back up String Theory being valid; to start, aesthetic details indicate String Theory in affect in the Marioverse. And what with mathematical-like equations existing in worlds like "Lineland," we can determine--for certain--that The Void was going to destroy all mathematical dimensions. And what about String Theory Soup? Is it reliable? Yes. It's the narrator who talks about String Theory Soup's description; third-person omniscient narrator. That is intensely reliable. And now, to address its name "not being important." The last sentence means everything: "Drink not, lest you learn more than what man was ever meant to know." Whatever this soup houses is huge. The earlier sentence states, "All the secrets of the universe are contained within this soup." So, it's something huge and revealing--a secret that man was never meant to know--about the universe. And the name reveals what that secret is; which is consistent since, String Theory relates back to the universe.
The scale goes that Dimentio can destroy these forms, due to scaling above the void with dimension D.
And in Mario's time machine there is proof that these forms exist, as the theory of forms is shown to be more plausible. And in the bottom "the republic" is the theory of forms as shown at the bottom. And from all the red scans that are shown below, the theory of forms seems to be much more plausable, according to the omniscient narrator of the game which servers as the main game mechanic. And in this, Aristotle agrees with the republic head on, when in real life he was the only one to disagree. So if the republic is true in Mario, then dimentio, due to scaling to the void, he can destroy these forms easily.
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Solaris can also be countered by that of Culex, who has a similar time and space devouring feat. Culex has these abilities: Matter Manipulation (Capable of devouring matter), Space-Time Manipulation (Is proclaimed as the master of Time and Space. Can consume Time), Precognition (can see tens of years into the future), Anti-Matter Manipulation (Claimed to be an entity made of pure anti-matter itself), Creation (Shaped the Elemental Crystals from nothing, which amplified his power), Life-Force Absorption (Drain & Mega Drain are able to draw out the life-force of a being), Omnipresence (He himself stated to be the inheritor of Space and Time.), etc.
And before you say that each Mario is a different version, Miyamoto himself stated that Super Mario has no definitive canon. By this alone, we can say that any Mario game considered canon is indeed, the same Mario with a different appearance.
White Tanooki Mario, just like Super Sonic keeps all of his base abilities when transforming. If we list all of Mario's powers, you would see just how much it is, ranging from: Superhuman Physical Characteristics
Acausality (Type 1. Can interact with and fight alongside his baby self[1])
Genius Intelligence
Minor Fourth Wall Breaking (Thanked the player for playing his game)
Telepathy (Shares a telepathic bond with Luigi, allowing the two to always know where the other is at[2])
Self-Sustenance (Type 1. Shown to consistently be unaffected by the vacuum of space[3] and being underwater for prolonged periods of time[4])
Toon Force and Elasticity (Can survive being flattened and is able to recover immediately)
Hammerspace (Various power-ups and items)
Expert Hand-to-Hand Combatant (Mario has shown master-levels of combat prowess throughout his tenure as the Mushroom Kingdom's hero. He has defeated a myriad of powerful enemies, mostly consisting of Bowser, a powerful tyrant hellbent on galactic conquest and the kidnapping of Princess Peach. Outside of nemeses, Mario has also bested Jinx[5], a dojo sensei and martial artist whom will challenge Mario up to 3 times and become more difficult with each fight, in direct combat. Mario's skills have impressed Jinx so much that they even incorporated his fighting style into his training. Alongside Luigi, Mario is capable of fighting both Bowser Memory M and Bowser Memory L, identical copies of the bros based on how Bowser "fondly" remembers them)
Master Acrobat (Has[6] displayed countless[7] examples of being[8] an expert acrobatic[9], such as being able to perform numerous flips mid-air, as well as various moves if accompanied by a partner. Can jump from several stories to the sky, perform superhuman leaps, and gain extra air time by repeatedly fluttering his feet)
Limited Enhanced Statistics Amplification (Via Triple Jump, which allows Mario to temporarily become invincible after the third consecutive jump[10])
Self-Perception Manipulation (Can slow down his perception of time normally, or with Zone Speed, to time attacks correctly)
Attack Reflection (His Hammer and Spin can reflect projectiles)
Status Effect Inducement (His Spin Jump can stun enemies. His Hammer can also cause dizziness to an enemy)
Non-Physical Interaction (Can harm Boos and Cackletta's soul)
Adaptation (Easily adapted to the gravities of different sized planets)
Afterimage Creation (Naturally leaves behind afterimages when using Zone Speed, and even without it)
Weapon Mastery (Has been shown to expertly utilize a wide array of tools and weapons at his disposal such as: hammers, swords, koopa shells, robots, blasters, and many more. His iconic weapon of choice, the Hammer, is a weapon he shows, arguably, the greatest proficiency in. With the Hammer, Mario can reflect projectiles, stun enemies, and even cause them to undergo dizziness)
Weapon Creation and Energy Manipulation (Can summon a giant hammer[11], a fire flower, and a rocket. Can also create a weapon composed of pure energy)
Vehicular Mastery (Mario can expertly drive and pilot a multitude of vehicles and aircrafts such as: go-karts, bikes, boats, planes, submarines, and much more. Mario's expertise with vehicles and aircrafts enables him to perform acrobatic moves when driving, and fight during these events as well)
Fire Manipulation (Is fully capable of producing fire on his own after obtaining the Firebrand. He can shoot large balls of fire, barrages of fire balls, and set objects on fire)
Explosion Manipulation (Can create fiery explosions)
Status Effect Inducement (Can use the move "Fire Bros." to perform a First Strike. Doing so will result in the enemy being afflicted with the "Burn" status)
Ice Manipulation (Made an ice tower grow taller and can throw snowballs to freeze an enemy[12])
Time Travel (Traveled through time, via unknown means, to help his past self[13])
Possibly Existence Erasure (Wiped Wendy's castle from existence. Should noted that this might most likely fall under Toon Force)
Extreme Heat (Can withstand the heat of Bowser's artificial sun while battling him inside it. As a racer in Mario Kart Wii, he can survive falling into lava without harm)
Extreme Cold and Cosmic Radiations (Can easily endure the coldness of space and its hazardous elements. Can navigate through World 6, which was stated to be sub-zero in temperature and can freeze Bowser's army[14])
Fire Manipulation (As a playable character in Mario Kart Arcade GP DX, he can easily endure being set on fire when eating a Flaming Tender[15])
Ice Manipulation (Can break free from ice by an Ice Bro)
Electricity Manipulation (Isn't negatively affected by Luigi using Thunderhand on him, and like other characters in Mario Party 6, Mario can endure being electrocuted)
Paralysis Inducement (Unaffected by Bowyer's arrows, which paralyzes anyone it hits[16])
Sleep Manipulation (Resisted the Dreambeats, which put all inhabitants of Pi'illo island to sleep[17])
Sealing, Mind Manipulation, and Corruption (Type 2. Is merely damaged by Fury Bowser's Black Paint, as opposed to being sealed away like the islands in Lake Lapcat. Mario was also unaffected by both the Black Paint and Fury Bowser's passive corruptive aura[18])
Petrification (Broke free from being turned to stone)
Transmutation (Treats Kamek's magic as an ordinary attack, which can transmute objects into enemies. Can also fight as a scarecrow)
Gravity Manipulation (Has adjusted his gravity to walk normally on hundreds of different sized planets and can resist the strong gravitational pull of black holes)
Matter Manipulation, Poison Manipulation, and Disease Manipulation (Unaffected by the paint Shadow Mario used, which can morph the ground it was on, get rid of entire pieces of land, or make entire buildings disappear completely and reappear from nothing, as well as being consistently stated to be a toxic pollutant, and having inflicted fevers to the Chain Chomplets)
Transformation and Statistics Amplification (Via multiple power-ups)
Healing (With the Super Mushroom)
Size Manipulation (With the Super Mushroom, Mini Mushroom, and Mega Mushroom)
Greater Fire Manipulation (With the Fire Flower)
Greater Ice Manipulation (With the Ice Flower)
Enhanced Statistics Amplification (The Super Star, Rainbow Star, Mega Mushroom, Invincibility Leaf, and Invincibility Bell all grant this due to in-game showings where a character becomes impervious to all types of conventional damage, and statements from sources)
Teleportation (With the P-wing and Warp Whistle)
Flight (With the Cape Feather, Super Leaf (Raccoon), Invincibility Leaf (Raccoon), and P-Balloon)
Vibration Manipulation (With the Mega Mushroom and Cape Feather)
Extended Attack Reflection (With the Cape Feather)
Extended Weapon Mastery (With the Hammer Suit, Superball Flower, and Boomerang Flower)
Free Movement (Water Walking. The Mini Mushroom allows Mario to run on water)
Surface Scaling and Shapeshifting (With the Super Bell and Lucky Bell, Mario can climb up vertical surfaces. Lucky Bell in particular can allow Mario to transform himself into a golden lucky cat statue, temporarily making him invincible[19])
Resurrection (With 1-Up Mushrooms)
Mushrooms/Flowers/Stars:
Earth Manipulation (Rock Mushroom)
Cloud Manipulation and Platform Creation (Cloud Flower)
Transmutation, Explosion Manipulation, and Greater Fire Manipulation (With the Gold Flower. The Gold Flower is also capable of taking out enemies/bosses who are normally resistant, or immune, to the Fire Flower's attacks)
Invisibility and Intangibility (Boo Mushroom and Power Flower)
Flight (True Flight. With the Red Star)
Battle Cards:
Accelerated Development (Battle; Physical Stats, with Bowser's Battle Cards. Mario can increase his power in proportion to the amount of damage he's taken during battle)
Statistics Amplification (With Battle Cards. Mario can increase the power of his Boots and Hammer up to 50%, his defense up to 50%, and his speed, for a limited time, up to 35%)
Fire Manipulation (With Bowser's Battle Cards. This adds fire to any of Mario's attacks)
Purification (Type 3. With Battle Cards. Mario can remove status effects from himself)
Healing (With Battle Cards. Mario can restore 30% of his Health, or fully)
Damage Nullification (With any of his Battle Cards. Mario can nullify any damage that may be taken once)
Resurrection (With Peach's and Bowser's Battle Cards. Mario can resurrect a fallen ally)
Statistics Reduction (With Battle Cards. Mario can lower the defense of an enemy by 50% and their power by 30% for a limited time )
Transmutation (With Toad's Battle Cards. Mario can transform an enemy into a Mushroom, though this has a chance to fail)
Gear/Items (Mario & Luigi Series):
Accelerated Development (Battle; Physical Stats, with Knockout Boots, which increases Mario's striking power with each enemy he defeats. With Golden Hammer, Mario's power increases in proportion to the amount of coins he has)
Passive Healing (With Doctor Socks, Nurse Socks, and Guardian Socks, all of which restore some of Mario's HP after a turn. He can also heal himself with Max Mushroom, Nut, Super Nut, Max Nut, Ultra Nut, and Star Candy)
Extended Resurrection (Via 1-Up Gloves, Gumption Socks, and Retry Clock)
Damage Nullification (With Guard Shell DX, Big Shell, Small Shell, and KO Shell, all of which can negate damage taken over the course of battle 6 times)
Portal Creation (Via Magic Window[20])
Statistics Amplification (With Bye-Bye Gloves and Dent Gloves which is potent enough to instantly one-shot foes comparable to Mario himself. Cozy Wear and Guard Wear increase Mario's defense whenever he takes damage, or blocks an attack, respectively)
Summoning (With the Zee Egg, Mario can summon the Zeekeeper to aid him in battle)
Supernatural Luck (With Stache, which increases odds of critical hits and increases the chances of enemies dropping items after battle)
Invisibility (With Boo Biscuit, which can turn Mario temporarily invisible)
Purification (Type 3. With Refreshing Herb and Star Candy, Mario can remove status effects from himself)
Caps:
Shapeshifting and Power Mimicry (Luigi and Wario caps)
Flight (True Flight. With the Wing Cap)
Intangibility and Invisibility (Vanish Cap)
Metal Manipulation (Metal Cap)
Possession (Via Cappy)
This is the definition of facts. You accounted everything I’ve been saying. This is canon!
Fax no its bias
Ik bro this is fax
@@thelegendarymarioman8461 just accept the fat plomber takes this L
@@thelegendarymarioman8461proof?
@@bigprogaymer6923 Well I just recently found out that Ty took the "race swap Mario's" out of context. I found out he got that footage from the Gameboy game called "Qix" and according to its manual on page 16 it says:
At the end of a 1 PLAYER game, Mario will give you a performance which changes depending on your score. See how many different ones you can achieve.
The manual claims those "Mario's" to be the SAME Mario.
Mario's reaction time is ftl
He can ride on stars and dodge lasers
@@TheLadKC Sonic can react to a gun bullet. And Sonic can dodge attack that he really not on to it when on a mission.
I was waiting for u to say hyper sonic
Sonic in the at form hon WHOOP HIS PLUMBER AHH
Mario defeated dreamy bowser, who was amped by an infinite number of dreams. And thanks to mario party we know that dreams are universe…
We also know mario is capable of piloting the star diver which travels several hundred lightyears in seconds. Hed be able to react to sonic.
Mario is also capable of swimming out of black holes lmao
@@user-rw5xg4vt9u Don't bring up Mario party, it's not canon. Literally every single character in the roster can escape the black hole then, making this feat not impressive. Moreover, he just dies in Mario galaxy if he falls into a black hole lmao
@@paulo547lets keep in mind base mario defeated bowser whom survived being sucked into an exploded black hole. Sonic had to be saved by the wisp after being sucked up by a black hole. Mario party is confirmed to detail cannon events aswell
Keep crying Mario fan 😂
@@chuckflashtbf the black hole sonic ran from was charged by alien energy and knowing Eggman he would have gone for a damn powerful and merry source. I mean the chaos emeralds literally blew up half the moon so who knows what the alien energy can do
Sonics speed is pretty much auto win for him against mario, I don't even understand why this is a debate bc while mario can be a lot more powerful than most people perceive him the only advantage he has in this fight is raw strength & durability which even then isn't too much since sonic can withstand his limbs moving at lightspeed
Let’s freaking go literal fire🔥
Sonic blows up Mario in a nanosecond
Tyrecordslol gotta be the biggest w ever
Hey. Gonna chime in here with my 2 cents. You're ABSOLUTELY right in saying that Sonic would win the fight. He's all that and teaches people to be very kind to each other, so he wins in that area as well, like when did Mario ever have a "Mario Says" or an equivalent of that in one of his cartoons? Never. Anyway, I am very glad to have Sonic in my life as I am an extreme Sonic fan.
Nah Mario could win too. Mario always teaches people to be kind to each other and he's pretty kind to everyone and he isn't snarky like Sonic is at times. He didn't, but he also wasn't an asshole in the comics either.
@@jaydenc367 Archie Comics and Fleetway comics aren't canon.
@@jaydenc367how many times can mario get hit in base with collectibles before dying
@@WeakestSinkThePorkEnjoyer In the rpgs a lot really.
@@leticianeal9147 I know
Maybe something like samus VS link next? Id 100% watch as they are some of my fav video game characters
Knowing sonic, he wouldn’t go full speed during the fight because you know, hes sonic.
Next fight, Spongebob vs Uncle Grandpa
6:44 In fact the sonic ceo in a difficult interview said that sonic speed is relative to the flash, which is mind boggling cause he’s taking about modern sonic not archie sonic, even though this statement needs to be proven in canon, but still people underestimate sonic’s actual speed.
No. WAY! O_O
He prolly means either JLU Flash or DCEU Flash
@@mikedanielespeja6128 Or Comics Flash
well he is going faster than time itself in Sonic gens
@darknightsproanecdotes8190 and Sonic Is Called "The Fastest Thing Alive" For A Reason ^^
*Both are strong, both are equal and y'all need to shut up about this Console Wars shit.*
How is talking about these two characters fighting “Console Wars” Are you that stupid? Also, using bold doesn’t make your argument any better. Sonic wins over Mario, end of conversation.
Fr They need to shut the fuck up with this shit!!
I agree....
This has been a debate for like 30 years, me and you will die before this debate is finished. And bro this ain’t PlayStation and Xbox we all know Nintendo slammed sonic and bitched him, literally bought sega. Crazy
@@Whoxps I don't care, they're canonically friends now and that's what important. All this toxic rivalry bullshit is annoying at this point.
Nothing can escape a black hole. No one wins.
Mario: Across the Mario-verse
being a fan of both mario and sonic i'm aware of what both can do, and with all of the credit that sonic gets it's also kinda weird that people overlook when compairing feats and stuff like solaris which people don't tend to give 06 a second thought, sonic defeating gods and beings beyond time and space it's self i mean mario has done the same if not for the games that are canon to the storyline as each indiviaul mario has been recently confirmed it's just mario like the ones in the canon story are from super mario bros. through 64 up to sunshine and odyseey also having mario party 5 being canon being linked to dream team and paper mario since the dream port holds infinite amount of dreams and universes and parrelle universes which a dreamy bowser had control of and mario fought him on the same turf with luigi in the dream world. lets also not forget that in galaxy mario has survived a universe level hell even multiversal event with bowsers's star reactor and even fighting a grand star bowser in base form who was moving at the center of the universe with a black hole consuming stuff. and with mario party 5 being canon and them having minigames in there with out running a black hole that obviously gives mario atleast a leg up despite sonic being way faster. and mario is also strong too in base form from majority of his fights with bowser and or in the rpg games. but honestly ignoring game mechanics and junk like that mario dying to lava same could be said for sonic being super but drowning and or being crushed.
it can honestly go either way for mario or sonic because they're both stacked up on abilities. it's good video but i'm noticing a slight bias abit
all the paper mario games and rpgs being canon to one another meaning mario universes are connected as well.
Dude, forgot about the storybooks and Sonic Shuffle.
@@SqueezeableLemonsthis video was extremely biased it not even funny lmao
@@nithinshakthithiruppathi4028 Story books series is canon to sonic's timeline too so not even mention how broken the excaliber sonic and dark spine are
@@TCBlueFire it is sadly like mainly sonic bais and thats a constant trend i see, like no disrespect to this person but honestly i'm sick and tired people not doing extentive research on both characters for it to be a valid arguement. because mario and sonic are just as powerful if not equals in strength and junk.
Mario has fast the same amount of threats that sonic also faces. Especially with begins like Erazer Jin,Solaris, Chaos, and The END and the Time eater and Dark gaia.
along with eggman doing stuff.
same could be said for Antasma,Culex,Super Dimenio,Fawful,Cackletta, Count Bleck and his Goons, not to mention Bowser on multiple occassions who progressively gets stronger and more powerful each time he fights him.
like put some actual respect on mario for once instead of selling him short
This plumber can go toe to toe with a being that can survive black holes, lava, and a dip in the sun. He can even throw him far away with just his base power. He's basically similar to knuckles when fighting sonic. Meaning he's not weak without power ups.
"Black Holes" What you talking about pal. And we barely see him going to the sun. You just bringing uncanny feats from your pointless brain pal 💀💀
If he CAN pick up King Bomb Omb and spin Bowser around, then it clearly just shows how strong he can be. He can also breath in outer space
Remember fellas, Mario didn’t survive the black hole without help. Stop using that fact when it simply it isn’t true.
@@friendlyneighborhoodnoobYet Sonic is too fast for him.
@@patrickdixon7202 Mario's reflexes can help him dodge things that are going at the speed of light
Ya know, i always see Sonic vs Mario, but Sonic AND Mario is unstoppable.
true!!!!!
lego sonic solos both
I love that he did a hole math exam but sonic for the win
Paper Mario is canon, in Yoshi's Island DS there is a clear hint of it. Also, bro forgot to talk about RPGs and tried to sneak in In-game mechanics.
But prompts to him for at least trying to do a good power scale video without repeating himself and giving vague arguments
bruh
@@AnotherScaleneTriangleIDK why I have to explain this. “Cannon” does not mean main series or Main Cannon. Paper Mario isn’t the same as Main Cannon Mario, RPG Mario I’m pretty sure has been directly stated to be non-cannon, And Superstar Saga is DEFINITELY not the same as Cannon Mario.
@@complete8423 LMAO. First of all, it's "canon". Second of all, Miyamoto himself stated in a The Legend Zelda Breath Of The Wild interview that every Mario from the games is the same Mario unlike Link. And third there is a LOT of hints that games are connected like Mario & Luigi referencing Paper Mario and the first Mario and The Seven Star Children from Yoshi's Island DS and The Seven Star Spirits from Paper Mario 64.
@@AnotherScaleneTriangle Just because they ‘reference’ other games, doesn’t make ‘em the same guy.
Super Sonic is not invincible?
Explain why Knuckles punch Super Sonic out of his body. Form in "Sonic & Knuckles" beginning of the cutscene.
It's true
That we all see Knuckles did the same thing with Doctor Robotnik while using the Master Emerald in the Sonic movie 2.
Edit: Yall, just remember. He either got hit and loses his super from by those giant robots in Sonic Frontiers.
That's what I'm saying
The conclusion is that it’s been stated in the games before that the master emerald neutralises the power of the chaos emeralds and so when Eggman told knuckles that a super powers sonic was coming to steal the emerald, knuckles used the power of the master emerald to neutralise super sonic. As for frontiers I have no clue how lasers beat him however it’s ancient tech and the ancients were from a different planet so we don’t know what resources they could have used to build that laser
@@gsm4919 knuckles didnt know how to use it till adventure 1, your info is invalid. also the lasers are apparently slightly weaker than the eclipse canon
according to a manual, it was simply "a cheap shot" also super sonic has gotten way stronger since sonic 3
@@Reset2150676 what gave you the idea that knuckles didn’t know how to use the emeralds. I would say he did since he can harness the power of the super emeralds which are like master emeralds themself
The whole Mario series is NOT outlandish
Sonic being the writer explains everything
That's actually Archie Sonic. Game Sonic lacks plot manipulation. But don't worry, he has Excalibur form for Mario.
Sonic speed can be used against sonic himself because Mario has reflexes, if sonic run so fast and mario hit him with his ultra hammer on his head, it's like a car that driving at high speed and crashing into a wall
Exactly
And how is mario gonna hit something going faster than light?
You make an excellent point of characters different versions, but I don't think it's really like that
I think that the mainline games all have the same Mario (From SMB to Wonder, including Donkey Kong and Mario Bros), while the Mario & Luigi games have different Marios, so do the spin-offs (I know some characters like Toadette were introduced in spin-offs, but I don't think it really matters), while Paper Mario (And debatably Dr. Mario) Are completely different characters, I do agree that Sonic would win by just existing and people that keep talking about who would win just don't get what makes Mario and Sonic special
Also some corrections
9:10 99 seconds?
13:14 Mario isn't that bad against black holes, I know this is probably gameplay mechanics being gameplay mechanics but in Galaxy he can stand a decent distance away from black holes before being consumed by them
Also, I'm not very sure about Sonic teleporting or cloning himself, I think that he just moves so fast he just tricks the eye into believing that
I would say he can still make clones. The grand slam animation does show that the clones are see through, just like every other energy attack that Super Sonic has. So base form Sonic can't really create clones, but Super Sonic can. And if base form Sonic has at least one emerald, he could very easily teleport using Chaos Control. It is normally Shadow's thing, but he has used it before. So Sonic can do both, but they also aren't really essential in his kit, especially when Sonic can already go fast enough to deal as much damage as those clones and he can also just run wherever he wants most of the time.
in Itself Mario don't have a proper timeline, pretty much no continuity, You can haver your own canon for Mario, but Mario in itself has no canon.
@@banjo9158you don’t know what canon is
@@ihatebilly4675 i think you're the one that don't.
@@banjo9158 Then what about Bowser's flashbacks at the end of Odyssey
Or just, Odyssey in general
Even CLASSIC sonic was able to go so fast he could go to the future or past
Game mechanics I never taken into account in a VS battle anyway. Thats whats tricky about some video game vs macth ups.
And less not forget, Sonic defeated the STRONGEST villain in super smash bros. Mario couldn’t even do that.
Which game is that again? Melee, or brawl? Anyways, Sonic's super form is TOO powerful. Sure, in some games, is pretty much just speed monitor and invincibility monitor, but in other ones like Generations or Frontiers, it can defeat gods with JUST that form. Sure, you could also say "Oh, but in generations, there's two of him, so he's two times stronge-" SHUT UP. It wasn't the help of the past and present versions of himself that allowed him to defeat the Time Eater, but it was his friends cheering him on. All of them, both timelines. And this is without even MENTIONING some other forms that could questionably be stronger than Super, like maybe the unused potential o f the TIME STONES. Like, what could those things do? could they make Sonic so fast that he exists in the past, present and future? different timelines, all at once. And another thing, what about HYPER SONIC?? He was used in one game alone. We don't even know what he can do, because like I said earlier, it was kind of like a stacked speed monitor and invincibility with sort of like a flash step. Think about that.
@@MintflameThe2nd And don't even forget Dark sonic, Darkspine sonic,Super Sonic 2 (in frontiers DLC) and Ultra sonic who can literally destroy timelines because as The force formula relies on speed with more speed being more power And since sonic can travel 329 Octillion or 329 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 times the speed of light, and light speed is near 300million Kilometers per second, if you were to put this speed into the formula it would be able to end Galaxies and even A portion of the observable universe and one more thing, The speed I just told you was of sonic base form and since super sonic has infinite speed that means sonic can destroy reality itself, screw universes and multiverses bro can end reality as we know it
Honestly, with this video. There are multiple things that I disagree with. I'm going to deliver a few counterarguments. If anyone wants to respond to this, don't be a toxic jerk like the people on Twitter.
1. COMPOSITE MARIO
In Death Battle's defense, Mario as a universe is fairly inconsistent. One minute, Yoshi speaks complete sentences, and the next minute, he's simply saying his own name over and over like a pokemon. One minute, Cranky Kong is DK's grandfather, the next, he's simply his father. Also, it's not outlandish to say that other media like the Manga or the 2023 Movie can be used (with the exception of Paper Mario and the 1993 film, of course), let alone all of the video games, especially when later games like Super Mario Odyssey reference past media as early as Super Mario Bros on the nes. Put it this way, Sonic is more similar to that of anime or comic book characters like Goku or Spider Man, meanwhile Mario is more comparable to your Saturday morning cartoon character that can be put in any situation imaginable. Shigeru Miyamoto states in an interview that Mario as a character is similar to Mickey Mouse, a character whose backgrounds are also fairly inconsistent. However, to say that each Mario is an entire different person in each installment of the main game series, because of how the game is played, is absolutely ridiculous. Meanwhile, Sonic is given basically everything he has, which is blatantly unfair on Mario's end, especially when considering Mario and other characters have always had the same personalities and basic abilities in the main series.
2. SONIC ADVANCE
Advance Sonic is Classic Sonic? Then why is Sonic notably lankier. Why does he have green eyes, why is his fur much darker when compared to Sonic 1 and other classic games? In fact, Sonic Advance was released several months after Sonic Adventure 2, in which the actual classic era of Sonic officially ended a few years prior.
3. WEAKENING BOSSES
Actually, the Time Eater has been shown weak to the Chaos Emeralds. As made evident by its reaction when bumping into the red emerald in one scene. So, technically, the Time Eater might be in the same boat.
4. SOLARIS
Honestly, I think scaling Super Sonic to Solaris is wayyy too dubious for multiple reasons. First off, Solaris is drawing from powers that Super Sonic doesn't possess. Second, Sonic needed to exploit weak points all over Solaris' body in order to defeat Solaris.
5. SPEED
Looking over at Mario Odyssey (yes I am using Odyssey), Mario has been shown quick enough to maneuver through electric wires. Electricity moves through wires at about 880,991 times faster than sound, or just over the speed of light. However, Sonic still takes this. In Sonic Prime, Sonic makes an incredible move between two lasers. In order to make these movements possible, he needed to move at over 9 times the speed of light. While it is faster than Mario, it's not as fast as Ty is making it out to be. Both could be increased even further with speed boosting power ups like the Super Star, Super Bell, Super Sneakers, or Super Sonic (phew, lotta super in one sentence). It does also go without saying that Sonic blows Mario outta the water in terms of travel speed. So there's that.
6. INVINCIBILITY
As far as I'm seeing these things, the Invincibility Shield doesn't give an exact stat increase either unlike the Super Star. Even then, Mario has the rainbow star too, which also allows invincibility, though it doesn't offer a stat increase like the super star does. This is noticable in the Super Show cartoons, the Super Mario Bros Movie, and the Manga. On top of this, Mario has the Bottomless Gloves, which basically means he can pull as many power ups outta his butt as many times as he wants. The same can't be said for Sonic, who's basically stuck with whatever he's got. Though, Sonic's Cyloop can be used to pull more Rings out of the ground, which can be used to keep Super/Hyper Sonic sustained. So, both can just keep constantly feeding themselves Stars and Rings to outlast each other. So yeah, that alone? Not that much of a factor.
7. TIME LIMITS
Sonic could have 999 rings... assuming that he just happens to have that many at the start of the fight.
8. POWER UP COMBOS
Now, technically Mario can combine various power ups in the Manga. Of course, that is if you want to use the manga, there is debate over that, but the Manga arcs are general adaptations of the video games. Kinda like how Sonic X is an anime adaptation of various Sonic games from that era like Adventure or Battle.
9. TANOOKI MARIO CAN'T FLY
There are instances where Mario can fly with the Super Leaf. The Tanooki leaf in-game can be upgraded with a P-wing, which does allow for infinite flight. Additionally, in other media like the Super Mario Bros Movie, Mario is capable of actual flight.
10. TAGGING SONIC
Of course, you can argue this for Sonic as well, but Mario can use the stopwatch and freeze time on Sonic, which is something that he shows no immunity to. That's made especially clear in his fights against Shadow. Of course, Sonic can likely use Chaos Control to freeze time, but he's never used it in canon, unlike Shadow.
11. LAVA
Actually, Mario can still take lava based abilities and moves. Though in the Manga, it is shown that the White Tanooki form doesn't make Mario completely invincible. It also doesn't help that Mario can stand inside of a burning sun while fighting Bowser in Galaxy. Furthermore, Hyper Sonic isn't that much better given that he can still get crushed by moving platforms. This is the problem. I'm seeing Mario being downplayed through common game mechanics with Sonic not being given the same treatment.
12. DURABILITY
Looking at what both Mario and Sonic has pulled off and what they can scale to. Mario is durable enough to take hits from Donkey Kong who could punch the moon down to Earth, given the mass of the moon and the speed of which it moved, DK must've hit it with a force equal to 41 ninatons of TNT. Heck, he was taking hits from him back to back, and has even defeated him multiple times. Super Sonic draws power from the Chaos Emeralds. In Sonic Unleashed, the Emeralds were so powerful that they could move pieces of the Earth around. Given the mass of the Earth and the speed of which each piece was moved, this would require about 2.8 yottatons of TNT. So, Mario surprisingly has a huge edge in durability, even over Super Sonic, and that's not including items that can increase his durability further, like the Metal box, the Mega Mushroom. But again, Hyper Sonic is completely invincible like the Super Star, and I've already talked about that.
13. SONIC CAN CREATE BLACK HOLES
Sure, he does have abilities like the violet wisp, which allows Sonic to suck objects and enemies in and take them out via bfr (even though Mario can use the retry clock or earlier times to reset the fight with a clearer picture on how big of a threat Sonic actually is). However, outright summoning a black hole through sheer speed alone, is not something that Sonic, or even Super Sonic has ever performed. These are the kind of things that don't make a lot of sense in the context of a vs debate. Super Mario Bros and Sonic the Hedgehog don't follow the same laws of physics as our world. That's why Sonic doesn't blow up the planet every time he takes a step. It's Fiction.
That being said, I don't hate Ty for making this. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I just have different views on how this would play out. For the record, Sonic could take the fight a few times out of a hundred. It's not like Mario wins 100% of the time.
...And yes Archie Sonic practically solos.
I agree with your points I also found this video kind of bias towards Sonic when he says that every Mario in each of his games is an entirely different Mario and his only reasoning for believing this is to base it all on the art style of the games (What I mean is him saying Mario from 64, Galaxy, and Odyssey are entirely different Mario’s). In fact, I can very easily debunk this theory by pointing towards Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario Odyssey. In Sunshine when FLUDD is scanning Mario there’s a little video that shows Mario’s past adventures (Such as SMB1 and Super Mario 64 for example) and in Odyssey when Mario captures Bowser we see his memories which show the events of SMB1, SMB3, SMW, and SM64.
Need more proof? Ok then look at Galaxy 2 in that game there’s a level called Throwback Galaxy and in this galaxy it’s Whomp’s Fortress and in that level you’ll notice that the walls that had a star in it that you needed the cannon to break are now gone. Which means Mario has been to this place before.
@@Duke-the-crow sonic in his base has immeasurable speed in sonic forces, archie sonic on the other hand speed is above game sonic speed, xeno goku speed is inaccruate and get debunked
@Hapless-Horse Fr. Mario Kun easily solos and Marioplex transcends that
Bruh why does this sound so cool with the song great outro man 14:07
Bruh the no difficulty got me like DAMN BRO YOU THOUGHT HIM A LESSON
It’s all fun and games until Lego sonic pulls up 🥶🥶🥶
If you finished the video
Summary:
The speed gap between sonic and Mario is so wide, that most of the fight would just be sonic landing multiple attacks, while Mario would have some problems trying to even defend himself.
Both their arsenal of power ups are somewhat similar, and while Mario’s might last longer, sonic speed might make it difficult for Mario to even use them on sonic and land a good hit. Even at their best, sonic would have wider ray of abilities to utilize and with his speed, he could probably put Mario in a disadvantageous position.
My man's spitting facts
Aren't most of Sonic's powerups elemental barriers?
@@friendlyneighborhoodnoobYeah like half of them are, but there are some different ones like the skateboard monitor in generations, the S monitor, etc.
@@TETANUS. the skateboard is pretty neat
No the speed gap is easily debunkable
Mario has dodged lasers in the RPG games easily Lowballed FTL but he easily has Inaccessible speed because he was able to move in Tick tock Clock where time doesn't exist
And his attempt at saying every single mario game is a different mario is A horrible attempt at the debunking mario
Adding something for sonic hax is that sonic is capable of using chaos control in super as shown in SA2. This would mean that he can instantly teleport,time travel on whim, stop time,etc
He is not experienced in using it like Shadow's.
@@speedosound4262 except sonic’s more experience with emeralds in general + he seen and used chaos control
@@jaredwong-bynoe2750 Shadow is more experienced in using it than Sonic + the only time Sonic used Chaos Control was to teleport out of the Colony ark.
Sonic only uses Chaos Control to time travel with Silver's emerald.
@@speedosound4262 Ok , but what’s the point of bringing shadow into this? He still has shown the hax
@@jaredwong-bynoe2750 Because Sonic usage of Chaos Control, he can't pull it off like Shadow can.
Archie Sonic: *laughs in fast*
(Watch the Game Theory)
I was like when is hyper sonic coming then he just came at the end
Archie Sonic casually survives and undoes the erasure of his universe with chaos control.
Paper Mario casually lifting about 18,138.5 tons.
Archie has speed, Paper has strength, and they both are durable because of the things they can do.
Wow, when did Paper Mario lift that?
For a piece of paper, he could surely beat scissors
Sonic has strength
Mario fans really cant say anything thats why i dont say "mario vs sonic" someone is going to be bad so even if you just say facts they still going to say something back so thats why i dont like the frase
It’s on both sides.
It doesn’t matter who is winning sonic and Mario are both the goats
some of sonic's abilites Indomitable Will (His unbreakable spirit made Sage question his ability to persist despite being in a state where he could barely stand, allowing her to realize his drive comes from protecting those precious to him. Despite the various challenges and threats he faced during his time on the Starfall Islands, be it enduring his Cyber Corruption to hazardous encounters with the Titans, The End stated that Sonic's courage had never wavered)
Accelerated Development (Training, Battle, Passive; Physical Stats, Abilities. Same as his Adventure Era-self. Defeated Metal Sonic in an Extreme Gear race even while the later had gathered everyone's data, having callibrated his style perfectly making him unbeatable on Gear by Eggman's own word. Became much faster after Colors as he could casually steal a chili dog without Tails being able to react to it. Kept exceeding Zig and Zavok's expectations after seeing him in action before. The Zeti even when teaming up continued to lose to Sonic despite being in confident in defeaing him when their power was overflowing thanks to Eggman's invention. Sonic grew stronger after six months of imprisonment in the Death Egg with his hands and knees bound. Was later stated to exceed previous data by Infinite during their second encounter, and stated himself to grow stronger every second[7] before later quickly overwhelming Infinite despite previously being on even ground minutes ago)
Enhanced Non-Physical Interaction (Is able to naturally hit Vector's musical notes)[8]
Pocket Reality Manipulation & Enhanced Dimensional Travel (Was able to break through Null Space and return to Earth using a Double Boost[9])
Enhanced Extrasensory Perception (Sonic can sense the attacks of his enemies)
Void Manipulation (Conversion to Existence), Life Manipulation, & Space-Time Manipulation (Limited - Through his running. It’s noted by Classic Tails that when the Time Eater travels through time, it tears space apart and results in said locations being left as a void that leaves them "empty and dead". As stated by Modern Tails, both Sonics are able to accelerate through time to repair space as a consequence of their running; something he describes as “returning color and life”. In the JP script, the Sonics are noted to be restoring the flow of time by them running[10])
Activated:
Greater Acrobatics (Consistently displays varying kinds of acrobatics; this ranges from leaping hundreds of meters in a single bound to differed methods of traversal. Sonic's entire movement and fighting style hones into doubling down on his athleticism combined with his speed, allowing him to employ it both in and out of combat. Even being in an environment with shifting gravity fails to slow him down so long as there are objects or enemies nearby for him to interact with)[11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21][22]
Greater Afterimage Creation (Can create afterimages through sheer speed. Faster than Surge who can do the same)[20]
Greater Air Manipulation (Capable of creating tornadoes both similar and larger than what he's shown prior)[23][24][21]
Greater Attack Reflection and Self-Perception Amplification (Through his Parry, which slows things to a crawl without affecting Sonic himself should he parry an attack)
Aura, Light Manipulation, Forcefield Negation, Telekinesis, and Limited Creation (Ability; All with his Cyloop. Sonic can encircle his enemy with it to shatter defenses which are impervious to his other attacks, can use his Cyloop as a way to grasp things without coming into physical contact with them, can spawn Rings with it)
Danmaku and Shockwave Generation (Ability; With the Sonic Boom attack, which unleashes a flurry of powerful shockwaves at the enemy. Can knock opponents off their feet by slamming into the ground)[12]
Energy Manipulation and Homing Attack (Ability; With the Homing Shot, Sonic can launch a volley of energy spheres that home in on his target)
Hacking (Skills; Capable of hacking into Eggman's technology)
Flight (Space Flight; Can use his Boost to freely propel himself through outer space)
Time Manipulation (Ability; With Time Break, allowing him to slow down time for his opponents without repercussion to himself)
Mind Restoration (Able to restore the minds of the Time Eater's victims with his speed)
Chi Manipulation (Ability; Capable of manipulating his "Soul" Energy to achieve several affects, such as increasing his strength or speed)
Damage Transferal, Energy Absorption, & Forcefield Creation (With his Guard Skill, Sonic Guard, Sonic can defend himself by creating a pulsing purple barrier that transfers half the damage received as energy for his Ichikoro Gauge; a gauge that will build up energy from being struck, guarding against attacks, and healing himself)
Statistics Amplification(The Ichikoro Gauge allows Sonic to knock out comparable opponents in one hit once enough energy is transferred to it)
Healing (Ability; With Sonic Heal, he can heal from any damage he may have taken by vibrating his molecules at high speeds
Momentum Manipulation (Ability; When performing the Drop Dash, Sonic stores up momentum before releasing it all in one instant to propel himself in a specific direction)
Explosion Manipulation (Ability; With Sonic Crackers, which are landmines)
Invulnerability (Ability; With Sonic Boom)
Status Effect Inducement (Ability; With Somersault Kick)
Darkness Manipulation
Transmutation (Ability; Via Ring Time)
Statistics Amplification (Ability; With Phantom Rush, Color Powers, Soul Surge, Drop Dash, Sonic Boom, Speed Up, Acceleration Up, Attack Support, Boost Mode, and Shahra's Ring)
Damage Reduction (Ability; Passively increases his defense to take less damage from attacks with Strength Support)
Resurrection (Ability; Can resurrect to be brought back after death at the cost of Soul Energy)
Limited Spatial Manipulation (Ability; Sonic's speed can "fix space")