Tele saying that ABR was just looking to delay the win as much as possible to keep him woke during an entire night when he was the one who brought a full stall team is the most ironic thing ive ever seen
Followed by tele commenting "the battle drew so much interest because of the fact that one of the players, himself, is in fact one of the best players of this generation, and will be forever considered as such"; then followed by ABR becoming the best player in Smogon's history, and tele getting banned for being toxic.
It was true as he went on to show. And the length makes sense. Every time ABR attempted to make headway to winning, there was a risk that Tele guesses right and gets a big advantage. So the more time ABR put between such attempts, the less likely Tele was to predict it (and more likely to waste PP on failed predictions) and the more likely ABR was to win. ABR probably could have won a lot earlier if he went for it, but that would also increase his chances to lose.
I remember when this game was live. Smogon Twitter had tweeted out a link to the match, but then after like 500 turns in they replied to their own tweet with something along the lines of: "actually, nevermind - stay as far away from this match as humanly possible" I nearly died laughing when I saw that
ABR is the protagonist of his own anime. Out-stalls the villain of the community in a 1287-turn game without using a pure stall team like him, ends up becoming the greatest of all time while Tele malds and copes only to end up perma-banned. Absolute legend.
The greatest competitive pokemon match of all time came down to who could 'drain the most pp'. Beautiful. Truly the greatest pp measuring contest of all time.
I was facing a guy with a full stall team, and I had a full ditto team. He said boring at one point, and I was like, it's your team, it's your fault if you are bored. That has the same energy as that guy saying ABR was stalling for time
I played a defensive mega scissor team with ditto vs a heavy stall once that lasted until my ditto PP stalled a victory and took about 400 turns. I did not enjoy.
"ABR would go on to become the greatest player of all time, and unfortunately tele would go on to get permanently banned from smogon for issues related to harassment and trolling. He has not been seen since" ABR sent him to the shadow realm lmao
Although it is called Tele and is based on a "light" Pokémon that is Tapu Lele (Psychic/Fairy). He (Tele) really deserved to lose because he was too arrogant, rude, vain, annoying for no reason, somewhat hypocritical, selfish, narcissistic and self-centered.
@@ChocolateSoda1 he's extremely smart across many tiers, i see him around adv community, he always knows what he's talking about when it comes to mons. I don't know about his competitive skill but his skill on paper is clear just from seeing him talk about mons
This reminds me of the story behind the deck size limit for Yu-Gi-Oh because a pair of guys shows up at a tournament with the thickest stack of cards and played search effects. It is hilarious how Smogon did not see this coming. For the 'love' of competition, people will commit public displays of insanity.
@@gsgaming6976 the deck itself contained 2222 cards with mostly search to waste as much time as possible when they needed to shuffle, it took 2 people to carry it, though you could fit it on 3 shoulders (4 if you packed it in.) the deck itself played 1-2 rounds before they were asked to drop out due to how unmanageable the deck was.
@@megasora4 Yeah, I saw a video on it. It was really funny. I was mostly concerned with how long the thing was laid out end to end. I'm probably misremembering, but in my mind's eye it was like, as tall as a person or more when laid out end to end.
Tele saying it was completely unnecessary switching and simultaneously spraining his arm jerkin himself off as "one of the best players of this generation" proves to me that the 1000+ turns were completely required to beat him. Or at least deserved. He chose the playstyle, he slowed the game down in the first place. It was in ABR's best interest to wait for an opening and in Tele's to avoid giving him one.
It was in everyone's best intrest for ABR to force stealth rock's since as already established zapdos can't do anything to clebable due to the whole needing it's pp to kill skarmory thing. Unless that was actually part of his plan and it never came to fruition due to a lucky freeze on zapdos.
I love that teles compliant was that abr was just making the game needlessly long to make him stay up all night, when thats exactly what his strategy was, using a stall team
"How come Doubles became the main format for completive Pokemon?" It's a question I've heard a lot in the Pokemon community... I think this game perfectly answers that question.
@@diablotry5154 you dont have double the pokemons. You have double the pokemons ON THE FIELD. Over the course of a game you can even say to have less pokemon, with only 4 per team. Which is different. That distinction is inportant. There surely are tons of strategies that can be only employed in that format, no doubt. But there are also tons of strategies that can be only deployed in 6v6 singles. The entire concept of hazard control for example, a giant part of the game is just gone in VGC. The idea of a stall team is just unviable in vgc, yet thrives in 6v6 singles to the point that you can build team dealing almost exclusively passive damage.
the world will forget europe doThe idea of fighting nazi was "if we defeat Axis, who do both genocide on Africa and colonize the world, the world will forget that europe Ally also do the same as well
An absolutly amazing example of Game Theorie in Action. The Players knew exactly that every aggressive move would be worse then Defensive (Switch) No move became the best move for both Players. But ABR found a way to force his opponent to make a move (one may even call it "Zugzwang") which truly Shows the competetive understanding he has. And it resulted in a very deserved win
Ironic how, in that forum post after the battle, Tele said "the game drew so much interest because i'm one of the best players of this generation and will be forever considered as such", only for him to later get banned and for his opponent to become the GOAT lmao
That’s one of the most unexpected yet hilarious endings to a true story I’ve ever heard. The guy everyone hates gets banned and disappears from social media, losing to a guy who’d go on to become THE greatest trainer of all time 😂
Banning something slow is an interesting concept for competitive games. My point of reference is Magic: The Gathering where Sensei's Divining Top was banned largely because it made every single round at large enough tournaments go to time. It's a good strategy and didn't break the metagame but it was tossed out just to make everyone's tournament experience better.
ABR going into the top of the hall of fame whilst Tele becomes completely obsolete is one of the most incredible outcomes I have ever seen. ABR is always determined to win, no matter the cost, and that mindset just brings a massive advantage.
This battle reminds me a lot of the Delinquent Duo in Yugioh, a pair of players who brought a 2000+ card deck to a tournament with the intent of stalling out the opponent until they run out of cards to draw. In turn inspiring the 60 card limit for the main deck as to avoid another situation like such
In that case, the 2000 card deck was entirely intentional to showcase the need for such a rule, iirc. Whilst here, it was rather more a result of people doing what they felt they had to do to win, and the limitations of the game being shown as a result.
actually the intent of the 2222 card deck was to waste as much time as possible during the shuffling (hence it being mostly search cards.) it just happened to do more good as a result by forcing them to make a cap on how many cards you can run.
@@acevardon3094 Every source i can find on the 2222 card deck supports my claim and even the owner of the decks twitter claimed their goal was to "waste as much time as possible." you are right that both were judges, but they did not enter the tournament with a goal other then some friendly trolling, wich they only played 2 games before being asked to back out. in the end, what matters is the end result as without the change to the rules, their just guys who brought a large and annoying deck.
Similar issues plague the Smash Bros series. Viewers demand fast-paced, combo-heavy matches and LOATHE defensive strategies, but these defensive strategies are extremely powerful and will take over the meta given the chance. This is why so many stages get banned (large stages allow Fox and Sonic to run away, any any stage with hazards allows one player to camp and fish for grabs) and why Brawl took such a beating from the Melee fans (Meta Knight can camp in the air spamming down-airs or Tornado waiting for his opponent to trip)
this video also helps show why entry hazards, while a contentious mechanic, are so important for a the health of the Metagame: by punishing switching you prevent scenarios where the best tactic is to just constantly switch, while doing nothing yourself.
This game really feels like a chess endgame. You only have a few moves to make, and you can take potentially hundreds of turns converting a mere pawn advantage/positional advantage into an eventual checkmate.
it’s worse than that; at least in chess, endgames that can be converted by humans don’t last that long. For cases that aren’t as clear cut, the 50-move rule (which was added to pokemon in some way after this painful game), threefold repetition, and time controls will eventually force things. This feels like that mate in 549 moves found with the 7-piece tablebase, except it’s not gibberish to humans and is actually playable. And someone decided to play it out in full in a tournament game, with time controls that don’t drop increment entirely.
@@Paulo27 the resulting endgame is not static (board position also matters a lot) for pawnless complex endgames, the best way to attack or defend is not often clear. even for simple endgames like king and queen vs king and rook, novice players may find the winning method unintuitive
I remember seeing a OU ladder match around the same time with maybe 60 people watching. Went to turn 1362 I think. Was absolutely insane to watch and people lost their minds when slowbro mega’d on turn 1290
This match is the kind of match I love playing in, and mad respect for playing out those 1287 turns. This video also offers an amazingly good explanation of the nuances to competitive pokemon, where these tiny advantages many people wouldn't see play out.
In chess there is a rule that states that if no pawn has been moved and no piece has been captured for 50 moves then the game is a draw, it's called the 50 move rule. Maybe smogon should implement a similar rule, basically if no PP is being reduced over the course of X amount of turns, then the game is a draw, this rule could also kick in if PP is being reduced but regained somehow. If there isn't a net loss of pp throughout a match then progress is not being made
Freezai we NEED a series talking about some big events in the history of smogon. As someone who never played competitively but always liked watching, i would be giddy if I saw more vids like this in my sub box/suggested
Yes eventhough this one is a very special case it also allows unexperienced players an insight into the mindset CP players use aside from "Hit super effective move"
Really liked this video! You did a great job with pacing and word choice here as everything was explained clearly and without repetition, and as a long time spectator of competitive Pokemon this kind of video is what I love to see!
That was a great video, it's hard to find Showdown history online given how much of it is lost to the jumbled records of the internet. Please continue making videos like this!
I had a gen 5 uu game go for over 800 turns. Stall v Stall, only reason I won was that I ate a spore with gligar turn 1 or 2 and that preserved a pp advantage later. Yeah I’d rather have tied
The price for playing Pure Stall: mirror matches that last 6 hours and are hell to play, either resulting in a tie or a victory/loss depending on who has better PP management. Let this be a lesson to not play Pure Stall if you don't like overly long games that are over twice as long as a feature film, because unless your opponent also doesn't have the patience for the mirror match and is willing to tie with you, you will suffer until turn 978. Or you could just go next, forfeit, and hope you don't match into another Stall player again. Or you could just not play Pure Stall, and play Balance instead. Or Doubles.
@@asterlofts1565 On stall, that means having a setup sweeper behind to win through a soften team. In this case the obvious choice would be calm mind M-Latias.
This match is a complete anomoly. Couple of hundred turns at MOST for two decently skilled players. 50-60 when someone does ok then one player chokes badly
I almost never comment on CZcams videos, but I have to because I want to see more of these "greatest game" breakdowns. This stuff is fascinating and as a fan of--but not an active participant in--competitive pokemon, videos like this are amazing ways to learn about the history of the game. Excited for more :).
4:47 "Even if alot of damage is not going on, as long as PP is being consumed there is progress being made because it can lead to Struggle." *insert Roshi laugh here*
this is just as satoshi tajiri intended the game to be played. the only thing keeping them from forfeiting was the +5 ladder points to go from rank 1069 to 1068 on the ladder
1:30 Haven't watched the rest of the video, but thats an amazing outlook, and I just want you to know I massivly appreciate and applaud you for this stance.
The whole "psychological battle" with trash talking is why muting is optimal when playing games, unless of course you want to get into that battle yourself. When you're actually fighting someone it's an element you can't ignore to gain the upper hand, but in pretty much any other situation it's just poor sportsmanship to play "side games" other than the game itself.
Muting your opponent so they can't get in your head is the type of behavior you see from victims of abuse. "I am weak and cannot engage socially in case someone hurts me" is a state we should not will anyone toward.
@@jkid1134 Dude, you just heavily implied that victims of abuse are categorically weak. That's far more problematic than the idea of not wanting to chat with random strangers.
@@driftwisp2797 Oh! Well, I sure didn't mean to. I meant to imply that this is a mindset that victims of abuse often fall into, not that it accurately reflects the nature of abuse or even power, and furthermore that it is an unhealthy state of mind. I can see the confusion, but trust me, I don't think less of someone for having suffered.
@@jkid1134 Muting your opponent so they cannot get into your head is a perfectly valid strategy. It isn't about weakness or strength. If you can't play mind games through the medium of the game itself, then you're not really playing mind games, you're just throwing insults in the hope of distracting your opponent.
I’ve been playing Pokémon for over a decade. I’ve never played or even watched competitive battles, and this epic battle is the first time I’m seeing it 😲
im an idiot when it comes to pokemon, especially tournaments, but god damn did you explain this well. a really comprehensive and well executed vid :3 also! the point in the beginning about not covering negativity of people online was such a good perspective on it. someone else mentioned is but it was just really professional and chill. love the vid
I thought that was another battle involving stalling, healing the opponent with Heal Pulse, and assuring you'd never run out of PP with Leppa Berry and Recycle/Harvest/etc. Where the battle could literally never end without making severe misplays.
I never imagined listening to an explanation about a game with over 1.2k turns to be so interesting that it almost saddens me that the video ended so soon. great explanations on their movechoices/plans. I definetely would like to see more of that kind of content!
ABR feels like a whole Jojo istg, he stays so unbelievably persistent throughout the entire game. Tele feels morelike a villain who thinks they've won as soon as the game started.
The greatest battle of all time in Pokemon: **two pokemon masters fighting each other with legendary Pokemon** The greatest battle in Pokemon Showdown: **two trolls stalling each other out to the end of time**
It's reminiscent of ancient swordplay, two sides each cutting, feinting, positioning, each one jockeying around the other to make that one decisive cut that ends it all.
@@bongosmcdongos4190 Heck, modern fencing. It's pretty much just waiting for the other opponent to make a mistake and taking advantage of it. So usually no one makes the first move
ABR wasn't a troll, he played the game the way that Tele wanted to play so badly and read him throughout the entire match like a book, which took like 7 hours to finish lmao
ABR knew what he was doing. I've been in a similar boat where I was pretty much forced to hold a relatively stagnant game state in order to maintain my later win condition (in this case, using Roost on Togekiss to drain a Starmie's Ice Beam PP so that it couldn't kill my DD Salamence-Togekiss had been paralyzed earlier, so flinching it down via SereneSlash wasn't going to cut it). Your opponent will bellyache all day long about how you just dragged the game out, but that's because they don't want you to realize that such conservative play is the hole in their strategy. This is especially true of stall players, whose egos are far more fragile than their team compositions would lead you to believe.
It's so exhausting to do but feels sooo good when you finally get the win. Most i got to was almost 300 turns just to finally predict a stone edge on an incoming Mandibuzz. stubborn mf like me will gladly switch all day against stall 😌
@@bestaround3323 It's only the stall players who are playing stall to get their opponents to forfeit who are like that. They don't enjoy stalling itself as a strategy, they enjoy the feeling of making their opponent miserable, which is why they fall apart the second someone who knows how to pick apart their particular variety of stall comes along.
@@thewanderingmistnull2451 Yeah, they really shouldn't be playing stall then. If you don't have the sense to either forfeit if you know you probably won't win, or enjoy the struggle of clawing each and every power point to try and snatch victory, then you should play stall. As if an opponent can pick you apart to win, then they deserve some respect for their determination.
The 1000 turn rule after this game, reminds me of how the 60 card limit in Yugioh has been introduced. Basically it is optimal to run as few cards as possible, so there wasnt a hard upper limit by the rules, so two friends brought a 2222 card deck to a tournament, which ended up as a logistical nightmare, since every single hard had to be logged and checked for legality and the deck had to shuffled multiple times in game. After that an official upper limit of 60 cards has been introduced.
@@michaelx8486 Specifically, "Mischen Impossible". It was a German Tournament. "Shuffle" in German is Mischen, so the name is "Mischen Impossible" like "Mission Impossible"
Freezai, the way you mentioned how you don’t put players in a negative light and your explanation after was very well spoken, and is the most mature and professional thing I have ever heard from any sort of public figure. People could learn a thing or two from you
I will always remember this video because while I was watching this I caught my first ever shiny in Shield and then my game crashed before I could save it
This story reminds me to a 1024 turn Pokemon battle I had back in the Pokemon Netbattle years that also crashed the app lol. Let me know if you want to hear the story (there were no replays back in the day but I'm sure the battle log should be somewhere deep in the internet) EDIT: And no it wasnt wobbuffet vs wobbuffet lol
I like how he says tele is "harassing and trolling" while showing him saying slurs, he's being so polite even though tele deserves anything that could be said about them
HOW LONG was ABR vs. TELE ACTUALLY I love this idea and would love to see more of this because there are some amazing sets more people need to know about.
Honestly not having any bias to either was really hoping it was gonna be a dumb win like the world's slowest toxic kill but this was just as good and the ending tidbits was the icing on the cake lmao
I only heard about this game in passing a long time ago. Thank you so much for showing me how freaking hype Pokémon can be :) Would love to see some VGC tournament breakdowns 👍
I like learning about weird & exotic strategies! 1 of my favorite videos was about a competitive approach to a massive, Metronome only tournament, & seeing how that played out! Lots of people play Pokemon, & lots of people play it competitively, it's the cases where people do things few or no others have or where they play in unprecedent, fundamentally different ways that excites me! Anyway, nice analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
Tele saying that ABR was just looking to delay the win as much as possible to keep him woke during an entire night when he was the one who brought a full stall team is the most ironic thing ive ever seen
Followed by tele commenting "the battle drew so much interest because of the fact that one of the players, himself, is in fact one of the best players of this generation, and will be forever considered as such"; then followed by ABR becoming the best player in Smogon's history, and tele getting banned for being toxic.
@@Tomix4k i can’t imagine being so self absorbed to describe yourself as such what the hell lmao
@@EsquireNapalm nothing wrong with it when it's true
@@AyenLogic it wasnt true
@@AyenLogic bro lied💀
This battle has more turns than my ELO rating
Lol
Sad truth...
Lol same
How many turns DOES your ELO rating have though?
@@ijpete98 999
“I’m trying forever, tie is not an option.” What a raw line. Damn.
And I honestly believe it. I’m afraid of him
5:25
It was true as he went on to show.
And the length makes sense. Every time ABR attempted to make headway to winning, there was a risk that Tele guesses right and gets a big advantage. So the more time ABR put between such attempts, the less likely Tele was to predict it (and more likely to waste PP on failed predictions) and the more likely ABR was to win. ABR probably could have won a lot earlier if he went for it, but that would also increase his chances to lose.
@@88porpoiseplus with what I’ve seen from ABR in his other games he generally plays long safe games
Man was determined.
I remember when this game was live. Smogon Twitter had tweeted out a link to the match, but then after like 500 turns in they replied to their own tweet with something along the lines of: "actually, nevermind - stay as far away from this match as humanly possible" I nearly died laughing when I saw that
.
Wow so funny
*I confirm that OP nearly died laughing.*
@@ActuallyDeath yes I see his tombstone too
@@annettenebiolo6962 *With **_that_** profile picture you have there, I don't really think you can comment on **_us_** being cringe.*
ABR is the protagonist of his own anime. Out-stalls the villain of the community in a 1287-turn game without using a pure stall team like him, ends up becoming the greatest of all time while Tele malds and copes only to end up perma-banned. Absolute legend.
Tele malded and coped so hard
Ctc still better
this
@@gunkygod4031 you know ball
Then he had to fuck with sleep clause for no reason
“I’m trying forever, tie is not an option”
Such sheer will and determination, dang
such a fucking raw line, abr is my new hero
based abr
Honestly one of the coldest lines I've ever heard
And it came from a Showdown match ☠️
Ash Ketchum moment
"We will not accept less than a full victory."
The greatest competitive pokemon match of all time came down to who could 'drain the most pp'. Beautiful. Truly the greatest pp measuring contest of all time.
Ayo what 🤨
Most appropriate pun EVER!
@@zchaosemperor81 Better get that PP Up.
yeah, it was very cool seeing ABR draining Tele's pp
You've one the internet.
I was facing a guy with a full stall team, and I had a full ditto team. He said boring at one point, and I was like, it's your team, it's your fault if you are bored. That has the same energy as that guy saying ABR was stalling for time
stall players complaining about games taking too long is so funny to me like it's your fault?? If you want games to end don't play stall
I played a defensive mega scissor team with ditto vs a heavy stall once that lasted until my ditto PP stalled a victory and took about 400 turns. I did not enjoy.
nah bro, ditto teams fucking suck
"My brother in christ, you made the team"
Definition of “well well well. If it isn’t the consequences of my own actions.”
"ABR would go on to become the greatest player of all time, and unfortunately tele would go on to get permanently banned from smogon for issues related to harassment and trolling. He has not been seen since"
ABR sent him to the shadow realm lmao
Although it is called Tele and is based on a "light" Pokémon that is Tapu Lele (Psychic/Fairy). He (Tele) really deserved to lose because he was too arrogant, rude, vain, annoying for no reason, somewhat hypocritical, selfish, narcissistic and self-centered.
Deserved
undeserved
How good was ABR actually?
@@ChocolateSoda1 he's extremely smart across many tiers, i see him around adv community, he always knows what he's talking about when it comes to mons. I don't know about his competitive skill but his skill on paper is clear just from seeing him talk about mons
imagine being the staff member who was moderating for that battle, sitting in front of you monitor for at least an hour watching endless switching.
They have to submit replays, the mods don't *need* to be there at all times.
it was 8 hours pretty sure . That is what i heard was the length of the game. Since u heard tele complaining he needed to go somewhere
An hour is an understatement.
It wasn't just "1 hour" lmao
An hour? Lol
Not only did he smoke his ass in almost 1300 turns, but did so resulting in a 6-0
This reminds me of the story behind the deck size limit for Yu-Gi-Oh because a pair of guys shows up at a tournament with the thickest stack of cards and played search effects. It is hilarious how Smogon did not see this coming. For the 'love' of competition, people will commit public displays of insanity.
lol I think I remember hearing about that. Wasn't that deck carried in in like a 6 foot+ long case or something?
@@gsgaming6976 the deck itself contained 2222 cards with mostly search to waste as much time as possible when they needed to shuffle, it took 2 people to carry it, though you could fit it on 3 shoulders (4 if you packed it in.) the deck itself played 1-2 rounds before they were asked to drop out due to how unmanageable the deck was.
@@megasora4 Yeah, I saw a video on it. It was really funny. I was mostly concerned with how long the thing was laid out end to end.
I'm probably misremembering, but in my mind's eye it was like, as tall as a person or more when laid out end to end.
That's why in magic the rule used to be deck can be as big as you want as long as you can properly shuffle without assistance.
IIRC, the guys who did that were judges themselves and were essentially trolling and/or testing the limits of the rules.
The best battle of all time was definitely the ubers match with the Arceus Flying named “Arceus Steel”
That was indeed hilarious
I use it....
do u have a link to that?
Link?
Or the guy who brought a Mega Charizard Y plushie to a competitive event only to use Mega Charizard X
"Hostile armies may face each other for years, striving for the victory which is decided in a single day."
- Sun Tzu
"Did i say that?"
- also Sun Tzu
Wait that is an actual Sun tzu quote lol
"I shitted my pants" - Sun Tzu... probably
"And Soldier is the best at fights and also very cool."
- Sun Zoo
@@annettenebiolo6962 I don’t think it’s a kid
"No one is entirely represented by their worst moments."
That's a gem. Thank you.
Ikr that line took me out of an already great video and I wanted to appreciate it.
I mean that’s definitely true, but if a person consistently cusses others out for losing at Pokémon, it’s probably indicative of their character lol
@@Bluerock121 Weeeeellll....
@@Bluerock121 true but I’m a believer in growth 🔥
Hitler and Jack the Ripper shouldn't be defined by their worst moments, then.
Tele saying it was completely unnecessary switching and simultaneously spraining his arm jerkin himself off as "one of the best players of this generation" proves to me that the 1000+ turns were completely required to beat him. Or at least deserved. He chose the playstyle, he slowed the game down in the first place. It was in ABR's best interest to wait for an opening and in Tele's to avoid giving him one.
It was in everyone's best intrest for ABR to force stealth rock's since as already established zapdos can't do anything to clebable due to the whole needing it's pp to kill skarmory thing. Unless that was actually part of his plan and it never came to fruition due to a lucky freeze on zapdos.
ABR : it wasn't about winning anymore, it was about sending a message!
That bit was clearly a joke tho
If Tele really thought it was BM then he must have thought that a win for ABR was inevitable, so Tele should have just resigned in that case.
The man brought stall and he's the one to complain about the turn counter lol
I love learning about this battle and the “where are they now” for the players at the end was HILARIOUS! Would love to see more of this!!
I died laughing when he said tele got perma banned and hasn’t been heard from since
reply 2
I love that teles compliant was that abr was just making the game needlessly long to make him stay up all night, when thats exactly what his strategy was, using a stall team
"How come Doubles became the main format for completive Pokemon?"
It's a question I've heard a lot in the Pokemon community...
I think this game perfectly answers that question.
Doubles are not only faster paced, but require more strategy. It works out perfectly for official Pokémon tournaments
@@rouvoby1223 only half of that is true
@@rouvoby1223 they dont. They require different kinds of strategy.
@@panwp123 more strategy is definitely a valid thing to say when you have double the pokemon and exponentially more strats to consider as a result
@@diablotry5154 you dont have double the pokemons. You have double the pokemons ON THE FIELD. Over the course of a game you can even say to have less pokemon, with only 4 per team. Which is different. That distinction is inportant. There surely are tons of strategies that can be only employed in that format, no doubt. But there are also tons of strategies that can be only deployed in 6v6 singles. The entire concept of hazard control for example, a giant part of the game is just gone in VGC. The idea of a stall team is just unviable in vgc, yet thrives in 6v6 singles to the point that you can build team dealing almost exclusively passive damage.
ABR is like an anti-hero. Not someone you'd normally root for, but you still want to see him take down the villain
the world will forget europe doThe idea of fighting nazi was "if we defeat Axis, who do both genocide on Africa and colonize the world, the world will forget that europe Ally also do the same as well
Why? Is abr some kinda bad dude as well?
@@joaquimrietveld8297 Apparently he also trash talks a bunch, just to a lesser extent.
@@pooppooper9033 tbh what Smogon player isn't a trash talking asshole? lol.
Strange, I read elsewhere in this vid that abr became the top smogon player while tele got banned for being toxic.
great vid. the fact that abr ended a 1000+ game without losing a single mon makes him a legend to me
with balance no less. you'd expect that in stall v stall
I personaly think that just makes him a really boring player😂
@@nept5281 splash splash your opinion is trash
ABR 👑
As a non competitive player, i think it's even more impressive that he didn't lose a single one even after his garchomp was poisoned
@@nept5281 You still don't understand the beauty of it after watching this video huh smh
man, imagine trying to stall your opponent for almost 1300 turns and in the end losing with your opponent still having their six pokémons
the power of regenerator
An absolutly amazing example of Game Theorie in Action.
The Players knew exactly that every aggressive move would be worse then Defensive (Switch)
No move became the best move for both Players.
But ABR found a way to force his opponent to make a move (one may even call it "Zugzwang") which truly Shows the competetive understanding he has.
And it resulted in a very deserved win
Fun series. I wouldn't mind you going over other 'famous' battles like this.
If you don't mind more in depth analyses, BKC has some really good videos on big battles
Yeah.
Moxie Garchomp sweeps 11 Pokémon
Assist V create shenanigans
Would love to see a vid like it on the famous pachirisu game too
I would actually subscribe for more of those, I'm only subbed to freezai Live lol
Ironic how, in that forum post after the battle, Tele said "the game drew so much interest because i'm one of the best players of this generation and will be forever considered as such", only for him to later get banned and for his opponent to become the GOAT lmao
RIght? Poetic justice doesn't even begin to cover it.
Modern ozymandias
Surprised he didn’t talk about how humble he is
and his Team loses to Clefairy.
That’s one of the most unexpected yet hilarious endings to a true story I’ve ever heard. The guy everyone hates gets banned and disappears from social media, losing to a guy who’d go on to become THE greatest trainer of all time 😂
Having Slowpoke and Slowbro as my favorite pokemons, i'm proud that one played a part in this legendary game.
Same, my fav mon for sure
Fellow Slowbro fan
Imagine getting potentially 6-0ed in a 1.2k+ game 😂
I remember watching this live in a Discord call. Probably one of the most insane things I've ever seen
A showdown server?!
@@decodedbunny101 yeah pretty sure there is a smogon server.
It's a lot less fun than it sounds though from my experience.
the whole thing?!
@@sapnupua5 Whole thing
@@decodedbunny101 It was in a private call with a friend. WE followed Smogon Tours
Banning something slow is an interesting concept for competitive games. My point of reference is Magic: The Gathering where Sensei's Divining Top was banned largely because it made every single round at large enough tournaments go to time. It's a good strategy and didn't break the metagame but it was tossed out just to make everyone's tournament experience better.
ABR going into the top of the hall of fame whilst Tele becomes completely obsolete is one of the most incredible outcomes I have ever seen. ABR is always determined to win, no matter the cost, and that mindset just brings a massive advantage.
This battle reminds me a lot of the Delinquent Duo in Yugioh, a pair of players who brought a 2000+ card deck to a tournament with the intent of stalling out the opponent until they run out of cards to draw. In turn inspiring the 60 card limit for the main deck as to avoid another situation like such
In that case, the 2000 card deck was entirely intentional to showcase the need for such a rule, iirc. Whilst here, it was rather more a result of people doing what they felt they had to do to win, and the limitations of the game being shown as a result.
actually the intent of the 2222 card deck was to waste as much time as possible during the shuffling (hence it being mostly search cards.) it just happened to do more good as a result by forcing them to make a cap on how many cards you can run.
@@megasora4 no the main goal was to cause the rule to be put in place, the duo were official judges of the game who wanted a rule set in place
@@acevardon3094 Every source i can find on the 2222 card deck supports my claim and even the owner of the decks twitter claimed their goal was to "waste as much time as possible." you are right that both were judges, but they did not enter the tournament with a goal other then some friendly trolling, wich they only played 2 games before being asked to back out.
in the end, what matters is the end result as without the change to the rules, their just guys who brought a large and annoying deck.
Similar issues plague the Smash Bros series. Viewers demand fast-paced, combo-heavy matches and LOATHE defensive strategies, but these defensive strategies are extremely powerful and will take over the meta given the chance. This is why so many stages get banned (large stages allow Fox and Sonic to run away, any any stage with hazards allows one player to camp and fish for grabs) and why Brawl took such a beating from the Melee fans (Meta Knight can camp in the air spamming down-airs or Tornado waiting for his opponent to trip)
this video also helps show why entry hazards, while a contentious mechanic, are so important for a the health of the Metagame: by punishing switching you prevent scenarios where the best tactic is to just constantly switch, while doing nothing yourself.
unless you have 2 regenerators as he also showed in the vid
Yeah hazards r such an important mechanic and so useful especially against moms that r weak to it
Every there's literally mechanics that negate entry hazards, so really they're just annoying for most players
This. Sticky web 🕸 stealth rock 🪨 spikes toxic spikes. I've sacrificed half my team a few times to set hazards and bank on a blitzing glass cannon.
Which is why I hate magic bouncers on randbats
I’d love to see more videos like this. I always love hearing about the crazy stories that emerge from different gaming communities
"It becomes very clear that the game would not be about getting the most damage, but draining the most PP"
I spat out my drink
Drinking milk lmao
This game really feels like a chess endgame. You only have a few moves to make, and you can take potentially hundreds of turns converting a mere pawn advantage/positional advantage into an eventual checkmate.
it’s worse than that; at least in chess, endgames that can be converted by humans don’t last that long. For cases that aren’t as clear cut, the 50-move rule (which was added to pokemon in some way after this painful game), threefold repetition, and time controls will eventually force things.
This feels like that mate in 549 moves found with the 7-piece tablebase, except it’s not gibberish to humans and is actually playable. And someone decided to play it out in full in a tournament game, with time controls that don’t drop increment entirely.
@@TheOneWhoHasABadName what's the 50 move rule
@@airam1721 if 50 moves have passed without any piece capture or pawn moved, the game is drawn
The big difference is that in chess you have a static team, here you have a million.
@@Paulo27 the resulting endgame is not static (board position also matters a lot)
for pawnless complex endgames, the best way to attack or defend is not often clear. even for simple endgames like king and queen vs king and rook, novice players may find the winning method unintuitive
I remember seeing a OU ladder match around the same time with maybe 60 people watching. Went to turn 1362 I think. Was absolutely insane to watch and people lost their minds when slowbro mega’d on turn 1290
You got any idea where I could see that?
link?
Got the link saved on my old laptop which bricked a few months ago 🥲 it only exists in memory now
@@awesomalityness rip, my guy
For both; the link and the laptop
Imagine not using your Mega for 1300 moves till you had the board set for the Slowsweep
This match is the kind of match I love playing in, and mad respect for playing out those 1287 turns. This video also offers an amazingly good explanation of the nuances to competitive pokemon, where these tiny advantages many people wouldn't see play out.
In chess there is a rule that states that if no pawn has been moved and no piece has been captured for 50 moves then the game is a draw, it's called the 50 move rule. Maybe smogon should implement a similar rule, basically if no PP is being reduced over the course of X amount of turns, then the game is a draw, this rule could also kick in if PP is being reduced but regained somehow. If there isn't a net loss of pp throughout a match then progress is not being made
3:54 “It becomes very clear that the game would not be about getting the most damage, but draining the most pp”🤨
Sounds like a Hentai.
ayo
He said that in such a weird way I can't believe was an accident
4:50 "as long as pp is consumed there is some progress being made"
At my age every battle is a battle to drain my PP
Freezai we NEED a series talking about some big events in the history of smogon. As someone who never played competitively but always liked watching, i would be giddy if I saw more vids like this in my sub box/suggested
Absolutely. SOMALIA jellicent meltdown, anyone?
Energy ball for the win
Unfortunate does not begin to describe
We need competitive historians in general, man.
Yes eventhough this one is a very special case it also allows unexperienced players an insight into the mindset CP players use aside from "Hit super effective move"
Really liked this video! You did a great job with pacing and word choice here as everything was explained clearly and without repetition, and as a long time spectator of competitive Pokemon this kind of video is what I love to see!
This was great commentary. Ive not played competitive in a while, but this has me remembering the old meta fondly. Definitely want more
That was a great video, it's hard to find Showdown history online given how much of it is lost to the jumbled records of the internet. Please continue making videos like this!
There is a ton of Netbattle, Shoddy Battle, and Pokemon Online history (older battle sims) that is entirely lost. 😪
Check out BKC’s channel he has a lot of that content there, just did one on one of the biggest cheating scandals in tournament history
6-0's after 1287 turns. What a legend
11:06 nothing to do with Pokémon, but I loved the Morgiana custom avatar! Magi deserves lots more of attention, such an underrated anime/manga.
I had a gen 5 uu game go for over 800 turns. Stall v Stall, only reason I won was that I ate a spore with gligar turn 1 or 2 and that preserved a pp advantage later. Yeah I’d rather have tied
Ahahahahaha
my condolences
The price for playing Pure Stall: mirror matches that last 6 hours and are hell to play, either resulting in a tie or a victory/loss depending on who has better PP management.
Let this be a lesson to not play Pure Stall if you don't like overly long games that are over twice as long as a feature film, because unless your opponent also doesn't have the patience for the mirror match and is willing to tie with you, you will suffer until turn 978. Or you could just go next, forfeit, and hope you don't match into another Stall player again. Or you could just not play Pure Stall, and play Balance instead. Or Doubles.
But sleep is banned?
@@XxDannySniperZXxGOB there was once a time where it was not
@@XxDannySniperZXxGOB Wait Sleep is _completely_ banned? Is that just a Gen 5 UU thing???
Can’t believe I sat through that entire battle hahahahaha. It’s still crazy to me how Tele brought no real wincons and expected to win.
How many hours did the battle take?
What's means wincons?
@@asterlofts1565 On stall, that means having a setup sweeper behind to win through a soften team. In this case the obvious choice would be calm mind M-Latias.
@@asterlofts1565It is short term for a win condition. If thy condition is met, they are gonna win.
@@rajvirratia6703 I remember it being close to 7 hours. I could be off though
“As long as peeper is being consumed, progress is being made, because it can lead to struggle.”
-Abraham Lincoln
This is honestly a great representation of why I only play doubles. I don’t have the patience for a game lasting even 10% of this one
That is to say, big props to singles players you guys have more stamina than I ever could
This match is a complete anomoly. Couple of hundred turns at MOST for two decently skilled players. 50-60 when someone does ok then one player chokes badly
@@RinaShinomiyaVal then as another anomaly, both players load webs HO and it's over in 10 turns LOL
I almost never comment on CZcams videos, but I have to because I want to see more of these "greatest game" breakdowns. This stuff is fascinating and as a fan of--but not an active participant in--competitive pokemon, videos like this are amazing ways to learn about the history of the game.
Excited for more :).
If you want more analysis on greatest game in pokemon showdown I recommend you BKC,he makes great analysis on older games
word
4:47 "Even if alot of damage is not going on, as long as PP is being consumed there is progress being made because it can lead to Struggle."
*insert Roshi laugh here*
3:55
Truly the "State and Revolution" of our era.
this is just as satoshi tajiri intended the game to be played. the only thing keeping them from forfeiting was the +5 ladder points to go from rank 1069 to 1068 on the ladder
1:30 Haven't watched the rest of the video, but thats an amazing outlook, and I just want you to know I massivly appreciate and applaud you for this stance.
The whole "psychological battle" with trash talking is why muting is optimal when playing games, unless of course you want to get into that battle yourself. When you're actually fighting someone it's an element you can't ignore to gain the upper hand, but in pretty much any other situation it's just poor sportsmanship to play "side games" other than the game itself.
Muting your opponent so they can't get in your head is the type of behavior you see from victims of abuse. "I am weak and cannot engage socially in case someone hurts me" is a state we should not will anyone toward.
@@jkid1134 Dude, you just heavily implied that victims of abuse are categorically weak. That's far more problematic than the idea of not wanting to chat with random strangers.
@@driftwisp2797 Oh! Well, I sure didn't mean to. I meant to imply that this is a mindset that victims of abuse often fall into, not that it accurately reflects the nature of abuse or even power, and furthermore that it is an unhealthy state of mind. I can see the confusion, but trust me, I don't think less of someone for having suffered.
@@jkid1134 Muting your opponent so they cannot get into your head is a perfectly valid strategy. It isn't about weakness or strength. If you can't play mind games through the medium of the game itself, then you're not really playing mind games, you're just throwing insults in the hope of distracting your opponent.
I love saying gg before the game actually ends
this was the game of all time
this match was truly a moment ever
Tactics were made, switches existed and most importantly, both players played.
Pokemon were involved in the battle
This definitely was one of the games of all time
Truly the battle of all time, my favorite part was when clefable said "its clefabling time" and then proceeded to clefable on the opponent's faces.
I’ve been playing Pokémon for over a decade. I’ve never played or even watched competitive battles, and this epic battle is the first time I’m seeing it 😲
im an idiot when it comes to pokemon, especially tournaments, but god damn did you explain this well. a really comprehensive and well executed vid :3 also! the point in the beginning about not covering negativity of people online was such a good perspective on it. someone else mentioned is but it was just really professional and chill. love the vid
This reminded me of the notorious battle that gave us the "Endless Battle Clause".
Keep the great work, I love your vids
funbro go brrr
I thought that was another battle involving stalling, healing the opponent with Heal Pulse, and assuring you'd never run out of PP with Leppa Berry and Recycle/Harvest/etc. Where the battle could literally never end without making severe misplays.
@@TheGuyWhoIsSitting and you're totally right, they're just two different battles
thats not a battle that set was common knowledge for a long time
@@TheGuyWhoIsSitting thats exactly what funbro set is
ABR and tele is the definition of "Die as a villain or live long enough to see yourself become a hero"
the saying is mixed up. die as a hero or live long enough see yourself become the villain
@@imfamoushero yes, thats the point
@@socialistrepublicofvietnam1500 i see
Remember when “don’t feed the trolls” was an internet rule? ABR broke the rule by plying a troll for an eternity
It was a tournament, and ABR played to win
Feed them until they bust
@@simongail8428 🤨📸
@@simongail8428 😏
@@rbexcess 🤰🏽
I never imagined listening to an explanation about a game with over 1.2k turns to be so interesting that it almost saddens me that the video ended so soon. great explanations on their movechoices/plans.
I definetely would like to see more of that kind of content!
ABR feels like a whole Jojo istg, he stays so unbelievably persistent throughout the entire game. Tele feels morelike a villain who thinks they've won as soon as the game started.
istg?
@@rishabhanand4973 I swear to god
@@Chriscraft-ug3sz thanks
Touch grass.
@@lornemalvo4492 you too buddy
Love this kind of content. Bring me more history lessons!
The greatest battle of all time in Pokemon: **two pokemon masters fighting each other with legendary Pokemon**
The greatest battle in Pokemon Showdown: **two trolls stalling each other out to the end of time**
I don't think ABR is a troll.
It's reminiscent of ancient swordplay, two sides each cutting, feinting, positioning, each one jockeying around the other to make that one decisive cut that ends it all.
@@bongosmcdongos4190 Heck, modern fencing. It's pretty much just waiting for the other opponent to make a mistake and taking advantage of it. So usually no one makes the first move
ABR wasn't a troll, he played the game the way that Tele wanted to play so badly and read him throughout the entire match like a book, which took like 7 hours to finish lmao
Greatest Pokemon battle happens in episode 4 of the anime: Metapod vs. Metapod.
I love when people break their games so hard that the rules get modified. Just like the dude with a nearly infinite Yu-gi-oh deck
I cannot imagine being so hopelessly not self aware that I'd pick a stall team and then complain about the match going on longer than it needed to
I love how all of a sudden PP maxes become *very* important
Can you do a deep analysis on when blunder used black sludge on bisharp?
Omg🤣🤣🤣🤣
holy shit that was legendary
that was ctc bro
I love how that's still a big meme. XD
Or an analysis of the legendary zen mode darm 6-0
And I always thought 100 turns was too much to bear with...
Yeah stall truly is cancer
Dusk Legend Ngl stall hate is omega cringe
1:19 to 1:29 - such wise words.
Keep on spreading this amazing energy, Freezai!
Notice that’s technically a 6-0
ABR knew what he was doing. I've been in a similar boat where I was pretty much forced to hold a relatively stagnant game state in order to maintain my later win condition (in this case, using Roost on Togekiss to drain a Starmie's Ice Beam PP so that it couldn't kill my DD Salamence-Togekiss had been paralyzed earlier, so flinching it down via SereneSlash wasn't going to cut it). Your opponent will bellyache all day long about how you just dragged the game out, but that's because they don't want you to realize that such conservative play is the hole in their strategy. This is especially true of stall players, whose egos are far more fragile than their team compositions would lead you to believe.
It's so exhausting to do but feels sooo good when you finally get the win. Most i got to was almost 300 turns just to finally predict a stone edge on an incoming Mandibuzz. stubborn mf like me will gladly switch all day against stall 😌
If they hate the game going so long they shouldn't play stall teams honestly.
@@bestaround3323 It's only the stall players who are playing stall to get their opponents to forfeit who are like that. They don't enjoy stalling itself as a strategy, they enjoy the feeling of making their opponent miserable, which is why they fall apart the second someone who knows how to pick apart their particular variety of stall comes along.
@@thewanderingmistnull2451 Yeah, they really shouldn't be playing stall then. If you don't have the sense to either forfeit if you know you probably won't win, or enjoy the struggle of clawing each and every power point to try and snatch victory, then you should play stall. As if an opponent can pick you apart to win, then they deserve some respect for their determination.
Sick roast. Man's a savage
The 1000 turn rule after this game, reminds me of how the 60 card limit in Yugioh has been introduced.
Basically it is optimal to run as few cards as possible, so there wasnt a hard upper limit by the rules, so two friends brought a 2222 card deck to a tournament, which ended up as a logistical nightmare, since every single hard had to be logged and checked for legality and the deck had to shuffled multiple times in game.
After that an official upper limit of 60 cards has been introduced.
Wasn't it called shuffle impossible? Because there was an disproportionate amount of shuffle cards?
@@michaelx8486 It was!
@@michaelx8486 Specifically, "Mischen Impossible". It was a German Tournament. "Shuffle" in German is Mischen, so the name is "Mischen Impossible" like "Mission Impossible"
"ABR would go on to become the greatest player of all time, and unfortunately tele would go on to later get permanently banned." had me dying
"It became very clear the game would not be about dealing the most damage but draining the most pp" -freezai 2022
Freezai, the way you mentioned how you don’t put players in a negative light and your explanation after was very well spoken, and is the most mature and professional thing I have ever heard from any sort of public figure. People could learn a thing or two from you
Agreed. I think I'll forever be a regular watcher now.
Seriously that was the most respectful thing I've heard in a long time from anyone. Legend
Freezai a very nice person indeed
Ikr
That ending had me actually in tears laughing
My dude has a competitive Pokémon accent
I will always remember this video because while I was watching this I caught my first ever shiny in Shield and then my game crashed before I could save it
It's so weird seeing Slowbro not using Teleport. Those were weird times.
TobyBro didn't have Teleport either.
Reminded me of that legendary Wimbledon tennis game in 2010 that lasted 11 hours
This story reminds me to a 1024 turn Pokemon battle I had back in the Pokemon Netbattle years that also crashed the app lol. Let me know if you want to hear the story (there were no replays back in the day but I'm sure the battle log should be somewhere deep in the internet)
EDIT: And no it wasnt wobbuffet vs wobbuffet lol
Y, como fue?
Tell us I'm seated
Ready my man
Please, supply us with the story-milk fresh from the udder of your brain cow.
You can't just say "let me know if you want to hear the story" and then just not tell the story
I like how he says tele is "harassing and trolling" while showing him saying slurs, he's being so polite even though tele deserves anything that could be said about them
As a VGC player, this will give me nightmares
5:38
“He wanted to break through with sheer PP.”
Poetry in motion.
1:16 wow, that’s one of the top three most rational, sane, and positive statements I have ever heard on CZcams. Kudos to you!
My entire laptop crashed 3 times trying to open this replay 🤧
Absolutely do more of these, as a very low level competitive dabbler hearing the extent to which this game can be taken has me HOOKED.
I was thinking about getting into competitive pokemon. Thank you for changing my mind.
"But first, subscribe to the channel" with the subbed/not subbed bars=definitely no chance of subbing now
This gets a watch every time I see it on my feed
Yo, I had rewatched this game like 2 weeks ago, so glad I don’t have to burden my browser to watch it anymore, lol
HOW LONG was ABR vs. TELE ACTUALLY
I love this idea and would love to see more of this because there are some amazing sets more people need to know about.
I finally have a glimpse of this longest battle in smogon pokemon games, and it ends up much more surprising than I thought...
Honestly not having any bias to either was really hoping it was gonna be a dumb win like the world's slowest toxic kill but this was just as good and the ending tidbits was the icing on the cake lmao
I only heard about this game in passing a long time ago. Thank you so much for showing me how freaking hype Pokémon can be :) Would love to see some VGC tournament breakdowns 👍
I like learning about weird & exotic strategies! 1 of my favorite videos was about a competitive approach to a massive, Metronome only tournament, & seeing how that played out!
Lots of people play Pokemon, & lots of people play it competitively, it's the cases where people do things few or no others have or where they play in unprecedent, fundamentally different ways that excites me!
Anyway, nice analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
WOW, never thought the pokemon showdown iceberg was THAT deep
Why yes I do like listening to you explain battles, Sub