This VTuber Got Cancelled for Talking to a Boy
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- čas přidán 10. 02. 2022
- only vtuber i hate is lofi girl COME AT ME
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edited by: one take jake
#ludwig #vtuber #rushia
Going through some tweets from people that are legit heartbroken that they can’t date their favorite vtuber because they might be in a relationship made me realize how deranged some people are
Its the idol culture in japan that make it way worse and thats just how it is, especially if you're signing up to be an idol
Soyboys lmao
People have always seemed to be deranged on the internet but it’s hard to determine if they’re joking or not sometimes.. 🤔
sounds about right
@@X3GoldenOfficial This idol culture and adoration is just part of Japanese pop culture, even before Vtubers, so it's not just an online/internet thing sadly (Though I'd assume it's gotten worse with the availability of idol culture online and the anonymity of the internet)
“They Got lost in the parasocial sauce”
What a banger line, this is why Ludwig is my best friend and knows me personally and is my favorite person ever.
what a coincidence Ludwig is also my bestest friend
@@mrkncd Both of you are wrong Ludwig is my friend and as everyone knows you can only have one friend and mine is Ludwig as I am his
The joke's on all of you. We are dating.. he just doesn't know it yet
See this is why he doesn’t like parasocial relationships
Because my best friend Ludwig would never meet up with people like you guys but one day when he returns my msgs he will hangout with me
@@ItsJohnBomb jokes on you I’m married to him, he does know it… once I tell him.
I didn't expect Ludwig to cover this, but I'm glad he did. There is a very toxic part of the vtuber community that need to be addressed.
Idol culture is fucking wild dude. It’s ridiculous
@@TheKingsPride There is nothing ridiculous. This isn't 'Idol Culture'. This is the fanbase Rushia cultivated. It's obvious 99% of the people watching this can't understand Rushia and have never watched Rushia before.
This is her fanbase, she cultivated it the way it is, she squeezed them dry out of millions of dollars and has had constant breakdowns over her fans loyalty to her. This is Rushia, go learn a bit before posting nonsense.
@@victorpresti What a lie. This sickness corrupts not just Japanese Idol culture but Korean Idol culture as well. It's hardly something Rushia created. I'm not going to pretend to be a Rushia superfan(more of a Korone/Miko/Pekora fan myself) but your victim blaming attitude is really gross regardless. You're a real piece of work tbqh.
@@victorpresti you're the type of person Lud is talking about by the way....
@@BrandonHeat243 I'm not Rushia's fanbase, but I can totally understand her Fandead being upset and wanting answers. Besides, those three you mentioned go extremely heavy on the idol side.
Miko, once she got out of the hell of growing 2k subs in months, promised her fanbase she'd never collab with a male ever again, she's heavy into GFE.
Pekora commands absolute loyalty from her fanbase, and has some of the heaviest veiled GFE in Hololive.
Korone probably doesn't even know what a man is for the past 6 or so years of her life.
So you may say one thing, but your preferences dictate something else.
And Rushia is not a victim, she's the cause. Of course, it doesn't justify harassment, but again people being angry and demanding answer is justified. Basically she's never recovering from this, even if was a honest mistake.
Reminds me of the time a Kpop or JPop star (don't remember which) was forced to shave her head and apologize on live tv for dating a male star and visiting his hotel.
Some reporters asked people on the street whether she deserved it and a overwhelming majority said she did which is absolutely insane to me in the very least.
If you are reffering to the Minegishi Minami incident, she wasn't really forced to shave her head. She knew she wasn't supposed to date anyone as long as she was in the group, but after the incident she wanted to stay in the group at any cost, so she decided to do that thing. I am not saying this is good thing, just that she knew what she was signing up for and desperately wanted to stay after she screwed up.
@@Pravdik918 Being barred from being in a relationship shouldn't be legally allowed to be put in a contract in the first place. Even if it was contractual that contract should be voided legally as well. Plus most these contracts are signed when the person is a child around the age of 9 when they don't understand what they were getting into.
If anything I hope one day laws in Korea change and they go back to these contracts and arrest the people who made them as there have been cases where things put into contract were deemed too far and people were arrested for them in the US. So it is possible that happens in other countries as well
@@inditiva6203 Minami is Japanese, joined the Japanese idol group AKB48 at 13.
Japanese and korean idol culture and laws are similar in some aspects and different in others. Just adding info.
@@asum7213 Just shows how messed up it is
@@Pravdik918 her shaving her head on her own initiative does change it a bit, but I’ll be honest, I still thought of Circi being paraded through the street naked after shaving her head. Obviously the idol’s situation is not to the same degree of crazy as that but it still feels like they’re parallel to each other.
Ah yes, my favorite VTuber news channel.
Time to rebrand Mogul Mail
It's a news/drama channel now
@@WanderTheNomad im down for it
Ah yes, my favorite Filipino artist youtuber
@@vic_710 *Mogul Manga Mail*
the character arc of ludwig going from "weebs get out" to covering vtuber drama is wild lmao
WARNING I am the unprettiest human YTer worldwide. Take the hint, dear jee
@@AxxLAfriku
Park your car in your garage, turn it on, and cover up all ventilation. Deeply inhale the exhaust fumes until you become light-headed.
@@monkeymoment6478 The spam is annoying, but telling someone to kill themselves over self promotion seems pretty out of hand.
I mean he’s technically a vtuber himself tbf
@@SeeMyDolphin no it's not, it's quite low-key actually, should be even worse
Breaking News: a VTuber talks to a boy, and it doesnt fucking matter.
The people who are genuinely in love with what is effectively an animated picture do really need some help. Whether a VTuber is indie, or part of an organisation, they're still human. They need to be treated as such.
welcome to the dark side of vtuber/idol world. Where a select small portion of fans are insane, and actually think they're in/have a chance of being in a relationship with their beloved idol that they spent millions of yen in merch for. Oh they might also stalk, harass, or stab the idol depending on circumstances.
@@gerald5603 @Gerald I'm reminded of the anime movie Perfect Blue, about an idol that wants to act instead but some fans want her to keep singing and are pretty insistent on it...
breaking news: warehouses are overflown with unsellable v tuber merch due to basement dwellers getting upset
Mafumafu is known to be introverted in the community and he once said he was scared of talking to women because he could get "canceled" . So i was so so so glad he has a female friend but then the endless backlash of this is simply terrifying. Dating or not, I hope they could still have a casual relationship in the end.
Damn I really like his music. Poor dude
Female wife as it turns out the fans were right.
I love this guy, I hope he doesn't have a girlfriend.
that would be scandal
Lmao
xDDDD
could you imagine if he kept something like that secret from his fans?
Lmao
No joke, if she is dating mafumafu, good for her. Hey, she bagged a goddamn legend.
Facts
Actual facts man... Mafumafu is goddamn awesome
Man, i wish i could date mafumafu. Good on her
Actual power couple
Dont take this the wrong way but I thought mafumafu was gay?
I really love how Ludwig's open-minded and actually understands what's going on
Sure, as we can see now. This was exactly what happened :)
Mogul mail needs to make an update video about this😂
Me: Well, you didn't fuck up the pronunciation of Rushia that much to the point you gotta apologi-
Lud: Mufa
Lol
Also tawa
mustafa
@@arcstar8337 that was the biggest crime
gwar gura
It’s crazy that a single message between two friends could cause certain people to emerge from their mothers basements guns blazing towards someone they don’t even know personally. Even if they are dating they don’t deserve such backlash. My heart goes out to both Mafu Mafu and Rushia.
This is why i dont watch vtubers.
✅ lives in mothers basement
✅ rarely takes showers
✅is lonely and depressed
✅doesnt work out and drinks root beer
✅ wears hoodies like its a part of everyday attire
Because i know that if i do watch vtubers, download tic tok, play genshin impact, or get even slightly involed with the furry community. I will go down a dark path that i will not go back from. fuck im already stuck in the DND community, and im being bullyed enough as it is cause of that.
Why did i post this no one asked
@@trashamedly2794 if you dislike your behaviors or hobbies try and take some small steps to change them, but if you think you’re gonna enjoy something but stop yourself cuz you’re gonna get judged then that’s also dumb.
Do what you enjoy man, life’s too short. That being said try and take a shower everyday and go for a walk. As for your depression that’s not easy to deal with but seek out professional help and talk to any friends or family in your support network if you have one. And if you want to leave your mom’s basement talk to your parents about helping you find a job in something you’re interested in, search websites like indeed, etc.
You speak like your life is resigned away to being a certain way, and while there’s always going to be things out of our control we also shouldn’t just give up either. Hope things work out for you man, best of luck
@@Holthis someone give this saint a winning lottery ticket because i dont deserve such kindness and genuinely good advice.
@@trashamedly2794 damn u ok bro?
The way Lud explained the concept of vtubers and Hololive, and how they're marketed and the parasocial relationship it creates (god the idol industry is so complicated) is so concise and clear and well-put for non-vtuber fans. It makes it so much easier for non fans and non weebs to understand what holo and stuff is all about, kudos to Lud and that English degree
I used to watch some vtubers but holy shit the realisation that this was their means of making revenue permanently altered how I see them
@@Missing-Ace It's not just VTubers in japan, if you go on Twitch and go down a bit in the VTuber category you will see a ton of female VTubers on Twitch doing the same damn thing, just more overtly and more sexual than in Japan. I'm not talking Numi, who is just a train wreck but you have as an example Goddess Vexoria, who now has a stalker, someone she had to ban is now stalking her all because she is all about the sexuality.
On the flip side you have Haruka Karibu, Girl DM, and Bo Sheep. none of which get involved in farming parasocials.
Haruka has a huge following largely because of who she is as a person, someone very relatable - she did get a bit more popular with the autistic crowd since she came out as autistic, that said she doesn't want to be treated differently at all. Someone asked her to be an advocate and she said no because for her being a Vtuber is all about her just having fun.
Girm DM is also very relatable, makes lots of dad jokes and puns, and refuses to swear, she is strictly "PG-13" - the worst you hear from her is "Heccin"
Bo Sheep is very family oriented and is a voice actress (she actually has different models for different characters and for her these are blatantly characters like in a cartoon).
Fellow tea, hi
Main issue that Rushia did:
She attempted to "bridge" a parasocial relationship with her viewers in the worst way possible, even for a vtuber (if you know her, she has stuff like wedding merches and calls her viewers in married pronouns). This of course attracted the lonely, obsessive shut ins who used their money to simp instead of going to a therapist. Then they felt "betrayed" when the incident happened.
Another main issue is that Rushia is a jumpy person. She panics quicky and a lot. The moment when the "leaks" were revealed, shit happened and she tried to "fix" everything. This included UNINTENTIONALLY compromising private company information to a third party. This was the main reason she was fired.
This was to say, it was all a series of unfortunate events and it all resulted wirh Rushia accidentally detonating the bomb that are her obsessive simps in the deep end of a parasocial relationship.
She was providing a "Girlfriend Experience" which explained a lot. Idk who came up with that, but I'm assuming the agency.
@@TheElectricRaichu Nah, it was just her. If it was the agency, then every member inside the agency would be giving that gf experience.
That a sure fire way to attract weirdos. Although it is a bit like being disappointed that your hooker isn't a virgin.
@@blitzm4nn511 With Hololive, everything has to be approved, Rushia might have come up with the idea but she has to sell the idea to management perhaps do a trial run and see if it pulls in more superchats.
I'm hoping the past doesn't repeat itself as some of the indicators are there again.
@@TheElectricRaichu they make their content, if hololive forced them to do then why not every single members cater to it since it make a lot of money , think pls.
Did not expect to see Lud talk about this but seeing as how it's literally just parasocial relationships gone wrong it makes sense
Virgins mad cause their idols has a boyfriend lmaooo can't make that shit up
@@TheWalf999 Not even that they're mad that she *might* have a boyfriend xddd
Lud the parasocial relationship streamer.
most of the hate is actually coming from the fujo fans of the guy rushia is dating as he is a super popular male singer that sells BFE
@@johndave117 And if you looked up who the guy is on Google, no wonder those Fujoshis are so crazy on him lol.
Wasn’t expecting this lol
Me too
Same!
Yuh
Specially the korone clip lol
You could probably comment this on most other mogul mail videos and it wouldn’t be that out of place
It’s sad going back to this after she was fired for disclosing company information. It seems like it was just a mistake she made confiding to a friend, but I’m not too sure. Either way, it sucks this girl’s life was turned upside down in two weeks
She did not confide to a friend, she went to the Japanese equivalent of Keemstar. Her actions were despicable. I'm not saying the "fans" had any better behaviour, but she unlike her "fans" backstabbed her friends
@@HarbingerOfTruth1 how did she back stabbed her friends, elaborate please
@@ZX-bq9nr I'm not fully aware of everything that happen in the JP side of things, but there where some rumors about her shearing some discord screenshots to a "friend" (drama youtuber) and some others things which ended up in her breaking the contract and getting fired
@@ZX-bq9nr TL: DR (most of this is heavy speculation)
Rushia goes to JP dramatuber to clear her name, without permission. Management, understandably upset by this, possibly start to go through her accounts and stuff to see what else she might've said, and find worse stuff such as leaking private info about talents and the company itself.
@@ZX-bq9nr In order to "prove" that she's not dating mafu, our girl leaked a shittons of private DM from management and ended up doxxing a bunch of hololive girls on Japanese Keemstar's channel. The reason she panicked so hard is because her gachikoi pays her a LOT (she's literally the number 1 on CZcams's superchat ranking) and this will have a huge impact on her income. Rushia herself farms parasocial relationship like crazy, if you've ever tuned into her stream you will see she leans very hard into selling herself as an overly attached girlfriend.
Hololive dont just randomly come up with merch idea, the girls themselves come up with merch and then ask for company approval. This means that Rushia herself came up with the idea of selling lifetime engagement rings and certificate, and hololive approved it. A big chunk of this drama is self inflicted.
PART 2 PART 2. DAMN HOW THIS AGED CRAZILY
Ludwig and Hololive. What a strange timeline we live in.
Deadass
I was not expecting this, but it happened lol
Never expected to hear about this drama here of all places
Samee
yoo facts
Big updates today. Rushia and mafumafu have gotten divorced in may 2022 after a year of marriage
Divorced, and Rushia was the abuser in the marriage.
CZcams recommendations having a great sense of humour as always
Hearing Ludwig use and understand the terms 'Gachikoi' and 'Oshi' is some good shit lmao
Cringe
Now I wish he'll read Oshi no Ko when it comes out in English
@@victor-oh I don't know if him reading it on stream is a good idea, but I do like the idea of somebody getting him to read it.
@@altrivotzck6565 oh yeah, definitely not on stream. Maybe read it and then comment on it whenever
@@victor-oh Now I'm not even 0.5% done with learning Japanese but I have a slight feeling that if he said that on stream he would have the FBI knocking on his door...
The worst part is the guy that she supposedly dating have much much worst and toxic fanbase. Any female that he have any contact with in the past have been attacked for no reason, which makes me extremely worried about rushia and mafumafu safety.
What mafumafu is vtuber?? I dunno that..i jst know a singer name mafu2..😧
@@midgelionhart Mafumafu recently started vtubing as well. But his psycho female fans have been harrassing any girl he talks to since way before then.
@@Shaehl oh..so its the same one..he is already big name utaite..thanks for the info..
here the worst part is what if mafumafu is Rushia brother who she love to talk about.
@@paybacksuper3670 preety unlikely but that will be the biggest IRL plot twist I would have witnessed in my life
I think that the WWE comparison is the most accurate one that can be made to Hololive and VTubers in general. It’s fake, we know it’s fake, you don’t have to tell us. We enjoy the culture, the story, and the characters. The kayfabe is part of it. The only issue is that there are genuine crazies out there who willfully ignore the kayfabe and convince themselves that it’s real.
She wasn't sacked because of the Mafuafu situation, she was canned for leaking personal details about fellow co-workers to the Japanese equivalents of Keemstar which violated her contract. Covercorp has publicly stated that they don't care what their Talents do in their private lives afterall. She got lucky she didn't get sued by covercorp for it, because if the wrong person got ahold of those leaks from her then many people could have been put in danger due to their toxic Idol culture. Not to mention she had been leaking information LONG before this incident. Other than that, cool vid man.
Doesnt matter. she got isolated. fk Hololive
It was not Sabaki this time, surprisingly. Credit to him, he actually stepped up to defend her, but backed out when he found out she was being terminated for leaking information.
Probably probably maybe maybe.
"please take a shower immediately" actually cracked me up
SAME
He should reply I did and it didn't change shit.
Omg the virtual woman I spent my life savings on interacted with another man who actually showers? Disgusting, I feel betrayed. Canceling all my subscription and throwing out my coomer pillows.
I swear I remember reading that Mafumafu wanted to be a girl which is why he does so much high pitched music. Maybe I’m wrong tho.
@@undauntedtheoni probably because of this song czcams.com/video/ucbx9we6EHk/video.html
but um mafumafu said in a livestream that it's just a song^^ hope I helped! I really like that song+his other songs^
Probably a good thing for them such person isn't pouring their life savings anymore? Blessings in disguise?
This is just amplified because both fandoms, the female vtuber and male 'vtuber' (he only started recently) has equally toxic fan base (i.e. passionate fans).
Mafumafu has a female fanbase that would attack any woman he'd talk with and stalk him during his college days. Basically the kpop fanbase but for him.
I fear for both of their safety.
god I miss Filthy Frank he'd be shitting on this situation if he was still around
Specially his weeb videos being scarily relevant till today
Hololive was originally intended to be similar to an idol group, however most of them act nothing like idols so the whole idol thing has become a meme within the hololive fan base. These vtubers are more properly defined as entertainers but they are still called idols frequently. Also hololive tends to treat their talents pretty well and while having certain restrictions on them to protect their identities, hololive did release a statement saying that Rushia’s personal life is her personal life and they don’t intend to intervene and neither should others. They also are looking into maintaining private information such as messages so something like this doesn’t happen again. Just thought I’d throw this out there for people who aren’t familiar with hololive, I’ve seen lots of comments and posts about the situation and I’ve not seen a single person that’s unreasonable - everyone is supportive of Rushia. The people that are genuinely upset at the situation are as Ludwig said extreme minority, probably far lower than even he thinks; overall the hololive community is actually a really positive and passionate community, do t let a few idiots shape your opinions
This is probably why creating avatars through VTubers became popular in Japan. Some people may not want others to see their own personal lives or judge them IRL because some fans/critics really go deep like WAY DEEP.
Really weird how people can get so attached to these virtual youtubers to the point where they feel like they are part of their personal life.
Anyways great video bestie
I think it really has to do with money. You put in money to something and you want to feel some attachment, a game, a figure, a toy, you paid for it so you have a higher attachment to it than a frog. I only ever paid for one membership on Twitch and that was only to support a creator I thought needed it while the rest were prime subs (Not really my money), and I did feel a bit more attachment once I did donate and felt the need to watch their streams a bit more than I would have normally. Not to know about them, but to show my extended support even if they didn't need it. Had any of them did bad, i wouldn't have gone as far as a lot of the vtuber community did, but I also wasn't as attached (monetarily) as some of them.
Just a thought of mine.
@@Dkgow Didn't expect to get such a serious response seeing as I mostly wanted to joke with the "Bestie" part
But yeah I can definitly see in that sense, people would get more attached. It reminds me a lot about the ideas of hobbies. The moments when you spend enough time with a specific activity, it could turn into a hobby, at which point you're generally more inclined to spend money, or atleast to give something back. And so a bigger importance is created subconsciencly
That's the fans fault for started from all of this blame all these toxic people
@@akibablackfrostfox2183 YEEEEEESSSS THANK YOU!! All these people i saw in the comment section replying to people and blaming Rushia, and I'm thinking to my head " then why the fuck would you fall for that trick? " Even if it was not a trick, only a fool would deliberately send money to imagine a future with that specific catfish... Degens I tell ya lol.
@@Rejjis exactly lad first of all I feel so damn sorry for her even she really didn't have a GF but some people who always jump shit without thinking
Holy shit, coming from a Hololive fan, Ludwig take is actually so educated and nuanced.
This reminds me of when Ludwig learned about the history of Ireland. Just diving into something he knows nearly nothing about and attempting to learn about it well enough to explain to his audience.
Not actually a ridiculously hard thing to research. I’m not a Vtuber fan or anything, they’re cool, just not for me personally. This is just base level knowledge paired with actually having basic human decency that A LOT of weebs and vtuber fans seem to lack for some reason 😒
It’s a very eloquent, based take of “Don’t be Cringe, be POG”
@@youngrootv nah you'd be surprised at how easily western creators misunderstand certain aspects of idol and vtuber culture, I've seen it happen a loot. Especially considering Ludwig doesn't even watch anime, I'd say he did a pretty good job
@@ericzhang7658 I think he does watch anime, just not regularly
I really like this video. He barely knows anything about hololive but managed to explain this situation without blowing anything out of proportion. I think the reason why this video hit so many positive marks is because of Ludwigs ability to explain complex issues in a digestable manner. He definitely did his research
Ludwig is so smart
I hope he doesn’t have a girlfriend…..
"Please take a shower" is such a based insult i am totally behind it HAHA
Good synopsis for someone that doesn't know much about this field. To add some details, Rushia would go hard into the parasocial stuff, which netted her the top superchat spot of all time on CZcams. And when I say hard, I mean HARD. The wedding ring merch is covered in the video, but it goes so much farther than that. Rushia would straight up stalk even small donators on social media and get mad if there was any indication that they were watching other women. It wasn't just the whales either, it included people that donated very little.
She would also go extremely far to keep up the illusion of being "not good with men". There is a male branch of Hololive called Holostars. One day, Rushia was checking the schedules of all the talent on the official website and one of the Holostar's schedule showed up. She panicked, apologized profusely, and reiterated that she's not good with men and would never collab with them. It was pretty uncomfortable for fans of Holostars since they're kind of seen as the black sheep of the company due to being completely isolated from the more successful main branch, and people accused her of throwing them under the bus for no reason.
Of course NONE of this justifies the harassment she's gotten over this whole ordeal. Now Ludwig is right here that probably 95% of her fanbase doesn't actually care that much, with some trying to counteract the hate that led to a hashtag "We love Rushia" or something like that (it ended up turning into its own controversy because people in Japan thought they were actually talking about Russia and figured Japan wanted to take Putin's side over the whole Ukraine thing). Of course, the hate is always going to seem louder, especially to someone like Rushia who has some pretty significant mental health issues from what I've read.
On top of all that, Mafumafu's female fanbase is apparently even MORE parasocial and vicious than Rushia's. Some speculated one would try to find her and throw acid at her (something that has happened before when it came to similar situations with idols in Japan and Korea).
So yeah, not a good situation that hopefully blows over.
Edit: Oh, and the thing with Towa led to an interesting sort of "rebranding". You see, not all of the Hololive JP girls cater to the parasocial crowd, at least not to the same extent as Rushia. Several will regularly interact and collab with men without much issue. Towa effectively became one after the controversy from 2020. She would basically become an Apex streamer (very popular among Japanese vtubers) and generally had men on her team. She's now bigger than ever, but the controversy also happened before Hololive REALLY blew up, so who knows how it'll go with Rushia.
There is a reason why shes so popular, even when other big GFE scandals would happen, she alone would stand atop all of them as a shining beacon to unicorns. Rushia especially catered to unicorns, rushias always been saying trust her and saying said that would probably make you cringe. Thats not even counting her own personal twitter and streams that arent hololive where she said shes saving herself for her fans. She breaks down when her fans say shes changed or stop interacting with her. I remember even recently she had a breakdown where one of her fandead said she changed, even wrote about it in her youtube blog. People act like vtubers only play a character, when youve been doing vtubing/streaming for a long time that wall breaks down little by little. Vtuber change alot when they go into members mode, they cater to their real fans. People do no know this since fucking 95% the EN fanbase cant understand japanese or even watch a stream, they'd rather watch clips where they only show the entertaining parts of public streams. They should remember where hololives roots were built off of and why its popular, these people stood by her through everything. Unless you have a time machine and somehow get in management, the catering towards males started in 3rd gen. Hell it was even called the cabaret gen. Management is fucking incompetent but they arent pushing these girls to do anything either, they even have more freedom because of coco (my oishi) leaving. Rushia was at the top of GFE and she fell, its the whole reason why this mess is bigger then it should be. I cant blame mentally ill fans when shes like this in hololive and not in hololive, they are the backbone of why shes #1 in sales revenue. They are both cause for blame especially when she actively pushes no males and the fans accept no males.
@@sleepspacee Sheeesh sounds like this issue runs deep. Thanks for the in-depth explanation chief.
@@Mikaa5454 Do keep in mind antis are pushing a "congrats on your boyfriend" message and its reached the uninformed audience because its so easy to turn it around and say "so what if she has a boyfriend" like its a fact. Imagine you get accused for something you didnt do and people say its okay you did something when you actually didnt. That shit is eating her alive even more because of comments bashing her fanbase.
@@sleepspacee So are the fans you are describing insane enough to think she actually has magical abilities or do they hold to some sort of rationality and realize that she can't possibly be her chracter?
@@sleepspacee Huh good point. I didn't even consider that angle.
As someone who has spent a LOT of time in the rabbit hole that is Hololive, I can honestly say that I was positively surprised by this video. Even though you are new to the Vtuber sphere you really managed to understand and describe the situation without throwing the more rational fans under the bus which I was worried about when this video first popped up. It really isn't easy to have THIS as your first impression of the Hololive Vtubing world and still provide such a reasonable and unbiased perspective on what happened + some useful thoughts that even the more ingrained news channels didn't give. My respect for you has grown Lud, not in a parasocial way tho of course 👍
+1
Well he's kind of friends with some vtubers
You nailed it with this comment
@@Despotic_Waffle more than any of the fans will ever be
Also as this is pretty much one of my first glimpses into hololive, it fucking sucks. i couldnt imagine working for a spineless agency that conforms to toxic fans (like dream). although with the nature of the content idk what you would expect.
You're missing a few pieces here. The technical reason given for Towa's (pronounced like "Toe-uh") suspension, was that she lied. When the voice was heard on her stream, she panicked and claimed it was management talking. So, technically, that's what they suspended her for. Towa was still new at the time and the incident impacted her channel growth. It depends on how the talent is presenting themself, but most generally follow a no males policy. Only the older talents with longer established audiences have broken the barrier and interacted with males, and it's usually other vtubers, or HoloStars (Hololive's male branch).
In the case of Rushia, she has modeled herself as selling a "girlfriend experience." She's also taken this to the extreme. A simple search will turn up clips where she gets mad that her viewers are watching other girl vtubers, or that they talk to other girls on discord. Check out the clip where a viewer broke up with his girlfriend. This is on top of the engagement ring and other stuff like it. And as with most holos, she's said she has no interaction with men. Disregarding that there's no possible way that can be true, (staff alone would be male, cashiers at stores, etc.) that's the type of thing that's floated, and that's the character she was modeling herself as. So I think it's understandable that after she's basically groomed that type of audience, they would be a little upset to find out she lied. Keep in mind she's made over $3.2 million in superchats alone. IIRC, $1.6 million was from last year by itself.
In reality, you can never know if a vtuber is telling the truth or lying, whether they're lying about 5% of things or 95%. They rely on trust, and until that trust is broken, everything is taken as fact. Like you, I don't think everything is made up. It would be hard to keep up a fake persona on screen without slipping. Especially for the 8, 12, 14, or 24 hour streams. Part of what makes them successful is that, for the most part, they aren't playing a character at all. It's their real personality. Sure, some aspects are downplayed, some are exaggerated, some details have to be changed or hidden just to keep them from doxxing themselves. But for the most part it's true. Most of them don't sell GFE, but they unintentionally wind up becoming parasocial anyway. For the fans, it's someone you really like, both in personality and content. For the talent, it's having a very supportive fanbase who actually likes you for who you are as a person. Neverminding if you happen to be going through some rough times. Some have had family members pass away, or been depressed about other things and so naturally that support has helped fuel a parasocial relationship.
Also, on the JP side of things, going by tweets made by Mafumafu and Rushia's personal accounts....they have a few household items in common. Plates, mugs, plushies, etc. Which is almost surely fueling things more than 「たったい生放送終わって、帰る準備してるよ٩(ˊᗜˋ*)وみーちゃん」
Which is the point. He calls her 「みーちゃん」, the name of her personal handle. That doesn't actually mean they're dating or living together, there's plausible deniability, but it's no surprise that people would assume that they are.
Great comment, i hope this gets more visibility
@@DespairNemesis hey I saw it! Thanks for the context
epic 🐙
@@DespairNemesis yup, it won't because people are too concerned with the fact that the drama started because it was leaked Rushia was talking to a man. They're looking at this through a westerner lens, because they don't really know, nor understand the whole thing about her performance and idol culture. They're just imposing their own culture and views to bash a company and a culture because they don't understand how it works.
It's like blaming the WWE and concerned parents pressure, for firing a fighter after they've been found drunk in public doing illegal or questionable stuff.
@@rRekko Cultural relativism is a cancer; people can and should criticize toxic elements of other place's cultures. Idol culture is toxic, in and out, and this is coming from a half-Japanese person who's somewhat familiar with Japanese culture (not completely). Idol agencies often ban idols from having relationships, for example. The entire industry is built upon catering to their sweaty, loser men in their fanbase and as a direct result creates this toxicity which then gets the idol in trouble when it's not their fault.
The agencies are the ones who create the circumstances which lead to toxicity being thrown at the idols.
In terms of Rushia, whether or not it's true that she leans heavy into the GFE thing, that's her catering to her fanbase. It doesn't justify shit, if people are actually throwing a fit, or even worse, harassing and sending death threats to her because she's dating someone else. The parasocial relationship was gonna be built anyways; she just played into it.
Really good talk Lud. I've only started watching you, but this is the most genuine and real talk I've seen about the internet. CZcams and Twitch culture gets too weird and invested sometimes and I'm glad you try to give people a reality check.
The whole idol culture in Japan, South Korea, and other Asian countries, is really sad. It stems from the greed of these agencies that hold a monopoly over the entertainment industry, since it's extremely difficult to gain popularity as, say a Vtuber or Singer, without their help. The whole Vtuber space is dominated by female talents, for whom thousands of male watchers donate an immense amount of money. The agencies know this, and they're obviously going to cash in on it. The same goes for singer idols. Imagine someone like, say Harry Styles, in the Asian Entertainment Industry. If it's made public that he's in a relationship, female fans who idolise him become "heartbroken" and are going to spend less money on him/his merchandise; something the agencies don't want. It's sad, but just how it is.
The thing is the idol culture here is not really different either. Look at how people act and talk about Ariana Grande, Harry Styles, Zendaya, etc. Etc. I think that it's just more monopolized (as in the take advantage of it more) in these Asian countries. But yeah people worshipping celebrities is fucked and insanely pathetic.
V-tuber idol culture has potential to be a healthier version of this kind of business model, because it allows the streamer to completely separate themselves from the character, the majority of fans aren't mad that she has a boyfriend, their mad that it appeared on stream
People have been doing this since Elvis and the Beatles. Michael Jackson would have crowds of thousands outside his hotels
@@chahinehamitouche3294 theres a diffrence though, zendaya for example the overwhelming coverage I saw of her rumored relation with tom holland was postive and we can see this all over the place in twitch too. Amercian and commonwealth nations seem to pefer celebrities dating over not
@【a forgotten friend】 until... Emma Stone and Andrew Garfield. Tfw people are forcing them to marry when Emma is already married
I've been in the Hololive rabbit hole for the longest time, and I do appreciate all the entertainment it's brought me over the years. This is the dark side of the industry and it's been here for an even longer time, and it's one of the things that's made me shy away a bit from the whole thing. It's very easy to fall into either extreme of the parasocial spectrum as a viewer and it's just become exhausting. The whole "Ludwig Parasocial Enlightenment Era" a while back honestly helped me become a more responsible consumer of content in general, so that's cool. Also, nice Korone clip.
A turtle approves of your based take
mmh yes
@@just_a_turtle_chad + ur probably bald
if not, then soon balding
Some People Are just Crazy when it comes to That. If its a Vtuber or a microphone licker in the West, some People get way too into it.
You put it really well. It's basically just the same as regular simp culture. But for the weebs who love anime girls, a V-Tuber is the best of both worlds and offers a real person who's got lots of personality and talent, and the cute 2d waifu model to make it like 2d came to life. As much as I know they don't deserve this, they're designed to make people feel this way and prey on what people like. Whether by companies, or by some V-Tubers just trying to compete in the overflowing competition now.
PLEASE MAKE A PART 2 LOL
As a fan of both hololive and Mafumafu(lol "moofa"), I just wish the best for them. No one deserves something like this for having any kind of relationship with the opposite/same sex :(
Moofasa😂
I wasn't aware of the drama so when he said moofa I was extremely confused and then surprised when he said Mafumafu 😂
The both of them denied having relationship with each other though based on Mafumafu's tweet and Rushia's "letter" to Korekore. Just the fans being their usual obsessive self.
Edit : added quotation marks on letter cuz it's not really a letter
@@hiddencatpaws Sorry. It's not exactly a letter, I was struggling to pick a better word, I'm not a native. So it's more like Korekore said he got contacted with Rushia and she told him some things, and he wrote the summary of it.
czcams.com/video/dBlDJTC09SU/video.html here you go. I haven't watched all of it. But this video is hella spicy, I don't really want to take all of this into the truth though.
@@fifiannisa9639 Yeah, this isn't the first time it's happened with these two either. They got flamed back in 2018 because they had the same table cloth(or something similar) so it looked like they were living together. But, it was just from fans who gave it to them so they both had it by coincidence.
As far as I know, they're only friends and had met because Rushia had asked Mafumafu to play/help her with Apex and other games.
@@dazuru6407 Yep. It was plate and couple mug(?) too. Korekore's video actually mentioned it again and that one thing became big again.
i like how the dude doubled down on "please take a shower immediately" because i agree
we're gunna need a follow up vid now
Thanks Ludwig you cover things so differently! It makes me feel like I know you like a brother. I just don’t know what I’d do without you and your personal talks! Glad to know you so well!
Yeah, I'm in the 5% of Hololive Ludwig fanbase crossover, and idol culture can be messed up. I'm glad that Lud doesn't make every viewer of these channels out to be a weirdo that doesn't shower, etc., etc. It sucks being in a community everybody points and laughs at. I don't even interact in chat or talk to anyone else that watches vtubers, yet I still feel ashamed sometimes because I see another post about Holo fans being cringe. I'm just tired of feeling unwelcome everywhere else on the internet
I remember when liking anime/being part of a geek fandom was considered cringe. Or watching Let's Play VODs or livestreams were cringe. Ironic that these tribes have started to laugh at fans of Vtubers when they were the receiving end just a decade or so ago.
@@HandleToBeDetermined Being part of a minority that is discriminated against does not stop that minority from discriminating against other minorities. I think it's just part of human nature to dislike/be averse to whatever is different from us.
@@HandleToBeDetermined Weebs making fun of vtuber fans is one of the dumbest things I've seen
You like what you like. No need for shame. People will always be divisive.
Considering holofans being so adamant about 'protecting' the holomems, I'm not surprised at all.
Just to add more context, the mafumafu guy is also actually pretty big in japan and he also caters toward the same kind of viewers like rushia except for female, he made the same kind of Paracosial merch (engagement ring, etc). Also i think you underestimate how big idol culture in east asia especially japan. Sure maybe the Western fans aren't making this a big deal but i can assure you, the Japanese domt think the same.
Yeah he also has an equally as toxic female fan base from what I heard. To the point where they'd attack any woman he'd talk to, as well as, stalk him during his college days
Mafumafu rarely actually does fanservice for his fans. The rings were purely regular merch. He's honestly a chill guy who's just trying to enjoy himself on the internet, too bad his fanbase is ass.
Very well said and explained for an audience not involved with vtubers. I myself learned stuff about the situation I did not know prior. Would love to see more videos on vtubers in the future!
Ludwig enjoying watching Korone play is probably the most wholesome thing I've seen for this entire year
As a proud member of the vtuber/Hololive community, seeing a video of Ludwig covering the Rushia drama (and having an educated take on it) gave me a good case of whiplash
ikr i saw the thumbnail and thought it was a hololive drama channel but seeing mogul mail made me do a mad double take
@@eZaFVulcan i thought youtube was bugged or something lmao
I think the piece of the puzzle I’d feel is missing here is the separation between the virtual avatar and the actual human being.
Idol culture has its fanaticsm and toxicity which is why I was kinda happy to see it trend more towards fictional idols in the form of games/anime etc.
I feel like Vtubers are kinda a confound in that case because although people are aware that Rushia and co don’t truthfully actually exist, there still seems to be a possessiveness over essentially the actress who plays Rushia.
I think the actor who played Draco Malfoy talked about getting bullied because of that role - same kinda vibe. People see the thing on the screen and all you are is the thing they last saw you as.
There was a “trend” that’s probably still gonna persist of people just doxxing vtubers- posting their face, saying some “I’m disappointed” type shit, and it’s all so weird and cringe and whack and stupid. But again not that dissimilar to people going into a frenzied panick that hey maybe Dream might be fat
Creating anonymously or having this distinctly separated identity to create under felt like it’d solve a lot of parasocial problems; let people project their delusions freely while allowing the creator to live a normal life offline
which is why it’s so interesting that it instead seemed to be like dousing a fire with gasoline. Audiences get so ravenous when things are kept from them there’s this cloying insatiable need to violate boundaries.
The proposed Hololive mission statement of trying to give second chances to talent who were burned by traditional media as well as give opportunity to those who couldn’t participate in the industry due to factors outside of their control does feel like a net good, However the attachment to the idol culture and it’s baggage is a bit harder make sense of but I might just be too NA-pilled.
It’s hard to see the good when trying to stomach the bad but there’s occasionally these little glimmers that make me go “oh I kinda get it”.
The subtitled version of Fansa by Honeyworks gave me some of those feels (truthfully the kiryu coco cover version but same deal). As a shining impossible ideal there’s a lot of strength to be found in everyone gathering together in a shared love. And like, a real allure as a young entertainer to want to aspire to be that sort of beacon.
But then you get into the “eternally 17 virginal maidens who must never interact with a male” and I’m all the way back out again.
It feels like this is mostly getting left in the past, the same way “seiso” turned into more of a meme or like the idol vs comedian distinction
…but god is it still so fucking sad seeing clips of talent sheepishly asking their fans for permission to collab with male colleagues.
It’s so sad it’s like a controlling dad having to approve a girl’s friends before they can hang out. Plus I’m sure these girls have hella stalkers.
@@AleksandarBell im sure most of these ppl going crazy right now, are said stalkers.
I also just want to say that it’s a lot worse than you think in how people are unable to distinguish the line between fiction and reality. I know an actor who after a one episode role on a show was inundated with dick pics and sexual messages and stuff. It’s scary.
I can't tell from your comment how much you are into Hololive Vtubers, but the separation between character and actor is largely not there because they are much closer to your regular streamer than to an actor playing a role in that regard. Obviously we have no way of knowing for sure, but the experience of watching them is about the same as your regular streamer when it comes to that: they talk about their daily lives, their family, childhood stories, shit like that, just like a regular streamer would, except they leave out more details because less info about them is publicly known to begin with and kind of "dress it up" thematically (like the reaper themed vtuber calling her mom "mama reaper" and referring to her job/activity outside of Hololive as "scythe swinging lessons", but not anymore than that really, meaning even if the character is supposed to be a 9000 year old shark girl from Atlantis they will tell a childhood story that is obviously from the person behind the screen). You could argue that all of it might be made up as part of a character, but really, the same thing can be said about regular streamers as well. And obviously, they are different people off-stream. But again, regular streamers are like that as well.
But yeah, watching Kiara nervously asking chat's permission to potentially have a sponsored collab with a guy made me cringe so hard, I almost unsubscribed from all of them then and there.
Edit: Then again, Kiara is probably the most parasocial of the EN branch, and there is at least Calli appearing on the Trash Taste podcast twice, which is a step removed from a collab on her channel but is something. Come to think of it, there was that Shadowverse thing where both of them were in a tournament and Calli even took some lessons from Gigguk on her channel, but that was kind of a one off.
One positive thing about the vtubing is that if something were to happen, you are not operating using your own identity so it's much easier for you to disappear and it's harder to doxx you. That's about the extent of protection their character gives them though, and that's only if you leave streaming/CZcams completely, otherwise people will recognize you.
Rushia is literally the worst one at drawing the line between character and real personality lol
Both she and her gachikoi were on some weird parasocial stuff
Also you can't bash idol culture for this. Hololive was literally built off of this toxic, parasocial environment. You can argue all you want against it but we all know they are told not to talk about their IRL relationships ever, and they agreed to that. They went with the whole idol shit themselves.
and now shes lost her job
Bruh 🤣🤣🤣
"Modeled after..the idol groups"
Even with the small amount I do know about Japanese idols, hearing that ruined my mood a little
I just found a funny comment on reddit about the situation.
"『This is what happens when Rushia fans
and mfmf fans met unfortunately』
On one side we got a bunch of lonely virgin men, on the other side a bunch of lonely virgin women.
By all rights, this should be a problem that solves itself, I just hope that these people can see the obvious solution."
lmfao, if only they had social skills
As a mafumafu fan, I'm intrigued.
But unfortunately, I'm only in for the catboy's songs.
Maybe in another universe somewhere that solution was introduced and people just go "good idea"
@@TrulyAndasen the key way to fix Japan's declining birthrate
That's why I hate calling VTubers "Idols", so much shit is caused because of it since it normalizes behavior like these, I prefer calling them talents, because it's the best way to describe the person behind the art, talented people who are just people, they have the right to live their lives how they want and some randoms on the internet don't have any say in it.
Well, the Hololive company pretty much strives to have the idol image. They actively encourage it. Nijisanji is a bit tamer, but they're still more idol-like than Vshoujo or indie vtubers, who are much more similar to regular streamers.
TL;DR: the big vtuber companies based in Japan often TRY to get their talents seen as idols.
Edit: I accidentally said "the big idol companies"... that just proves my point lol.
I use "idol" since it's their job title and in respect to their work, but that's where my definition stops.
I have always not been a big fan of the word idol
They advertise them as idols, but changing the word won't change anything.
The problem is created due as Ludwig says they are farming parasocial relations
I see the hololive group as talents and comedians.. never really cared for the whole idol side.
Hello!! You are mostly right with everything you have mentioned in this. The problem with this whole situation is the audience, which is how they make their money and everything. Whenever one of them gets found out about a personal situation, the audience flips shit and loses their mind about it. These come and go so much for hololive and it's getting ridiculous. A few basic ones that have happened in the past were: noel and flare dating, calli and Connor situation, towa situation ( that clip you mentioned and the rpr moment) rushia situation. I actually started to watch hololive bc I was told to try and listen to different music so I could try and focus on classes ( plus 8bitdrummer helped). I like watching the hololive girls but I won't go that far into the rabbit hole with membership and stuff bc I don't want to be associated with that crowd. For the idol aspect yes that's true, but they are human as well so they have relationships. The relationship that certain vids give is what attracts people like your mogul mail. For hololive it's them talking to chat and then explaining their heart felt stories
lud please, my timeline feed talks about this ALMOST EVERYDAY this week and i never thought you also talk about this in a video lmao
amazing
This is an issue in kpop as well, there have been times where a kpop idol will reveal that they are dating someone and many fans will leave the fanbase and even protest the company to remove the idol from the company. Some idols have been removed from their company simply for having a partner. Interesting that this is an issue in other spheres as well. Hopefully we can collectively realize how harmful this is!
Sex sells I guess. People want to buy the chance to hook up with their idols. They should take a shower
it's the sad thing about the structure of Vtubing, the idol group industry, and even just casual creators in general - people get fixated on this entity being solely for the people, yet not for themselves.
Not understanding that they probably have more outside of their online life is just ignorance of the so called fans that felt betrayed (not everything that goes on in their personal life needs to be said)
Here's the thing though, it's less of the structure of vtubing as a whole and more about how hololive brands their talents specifically as idols. I saw an earlier comment talking about how Nijisanji Japan has a lot more sane viewers because they're not branded as idol, but rather as just entertainers
@@thebattlerocker4338 that comment was full of shit nijisanji had similar drama in the past and being branded as "idol" or whatever had little to do with anything, last year Suzuhara lulu had to graduate because of stalkers, Roa is on hiatus for more than a year now after her discord messages were exposed by known drama Vtuber (apparently she's suing him) it was done by another member she had a dispute with and was fired in the process (search for Roa/Meiro drama if you're interested it was covered on reddit rather extensively).
@@ciapatyciapacz5354 oh goodness, didn't know about this! Im not a Nijisanji fan so I'm not quite in the scoop
@@thebattlerocker4338 It's nonsense.
Lulu Suzuhara WAS harassed by Antis and stalkers but that does not change the fact that Nijisanji has 100+ other members who are also not branded as idols (except one, who is literally an idol) that have received no such issue.
Yuzuki Roa did not have her Discord messages leaked by a drama V-Tuber, she posted them herself on her own twitter in an attempt to clear her name of accusation coming from another V-Tuber in the company, whose conduct resulted in her graduating. Plenty of Niji members openly discuss the fact they've had sex, or are in relationships/married, or explicitly say they do not want Gachikoi with no repercussions from their fans or managers.
Parasocials and weirdos exist everywhere, but that is not the audience Nijisanji targeted. They have like 3x the members but 1/3 of the drama revolving around this stuff.
E: Making an edit to say that I may be misremembering whether Discord messages were also leaked to the drama V-Tuber, bit those messages came from the person accusing her and not some Anti or Gachikoi etc so that entire debacle is irrelevant.
@@ItsCassius It happened with Kuzuha, it's literally never been a fucking idol thing. It's literally internet culture. It's been happening since before Vtubers were a thing
"please take a shower immediately"
I love this man
thank you for doing your best to understand the situation and explaining perfectly even to people who would know nothing about this otherwise
I respect Ludwig for covering this and actually trying to understand what happened
As someone who watches a lot of these vtubers (korone, fubuki, gura etc) you will find, as you said, a large majority of people who accept they're just normal people living normal lives but with a cute anime avatar and a good personality. My time around places like Twitter, 4ch and Reddit you can really see how these types of relationships vt's push like Rushia and Nene (possibly more but they're the 2 strong ones I notice) who give out this so called "girlfriend experience". It's hard to tell who is at fault or even if it's the vt's fault at all but it is a serious game to play to tell these lonely people and possibly on the spectrum in some way to not understand what is actually being said that they love them and would marry them, then to push things like fake engagement rings really does rock the boat imo.
It's a shame because the whole situation with Nene saying she has millions of husbands around the world is funny but vt's like Fubuki who have strong stances and telling people "No! No wife! We are friends!" and laughs it off that I think is a perfect stance to have because she knows the repercussions and understands it is a dangerous game to play with peoples loneliness and some peoples lack of social prowess or understanding of what those words really mean.
That is exactly my problem with the whole situation and people defending person's in question grave mistake of potentially losing a lot of money for a business (and themselves). It is clear that there were predatory steps taken to monetize misfortune of others (loneliness and/or mental disorders) and now it is being glossed over like it is nothing.
The way nene and fbk handle it is the best. Entertaining, yet leaves distance. While I think cover can take some blame, Rushia definitely hams up the GFE more than anyone. Thats how you maintain #1 superchatted person out there
i wish Twitter knows this
@@johnlake2545 yeah I agree but this is the problem with parasocial relationships. I can very clearly understand that these people aren't my friends and definitely in no kind of relationship so when they joke about this type of situation I can get a laugh out of it as can many others, the issue then becomes of the 5% who can't read between the lines who genuinely think that they are in a friendship or relationship.
For Twitter to take the hard stance of "if you think that way you're retarded" is typical of the people who use that site that you should only think this one way and see no other side. Like I said it's hard to tell who is at fault (Rushia, Cover, obsessive fans) but something like this was always bound to happen
I wouldn't say Nene gives a GFE, everyone knows her Husband thing is a funny joke, and it's even better that she actively tries to get her viewers to see her as lewd when they just see her as like a cute kid
I never watched anything from you until I started getting recommended these mogul mail videos and it's the only content of yours I can really get into, but great videos and I always appreciate your perspective
part 2 of this video is going to be twice as many views for sure.
Great video, really even balanced take from what I could tell and I think you captured the perspective of a vtuber fan well.
Just a note of correction: Mafu didn't even say "I'm coming over", he just said "I'm coming home". And people took that and stretched it to mean that they are living together, so the whole "they must be in a relationship" narrative is even more of a reach.
A reach her whales couldn't afford, so instead they reached for their wallets and cancelled their memberships LOL.
using a nickname with her makes them pretty close at least. imo i dont think its a huge stretch if they were dating or not. power to them either way for finding happiness behind the scenes. i just hope all this hasnt negatively affected their relationship, whatever that may be in reality.
The crossover I've been waiting for since I got into Ludwig and Hololive around the same time (July 2020). Glad to see Lud being profound towards this! Plus seeing Lud reacting/showing new ppl Korone is the chef's kiss
Yeah, some people project or live vicariously through other people's relationships and there is certainly a point where that crosses the line into crazy town.
It happens a lot even with groups of friends too, like it doesn't even need to be with a celebrity or vertical relationship.
It's also a fine line between being supportive of people getting together, giving encouraging advice, and shipping them with force, with backlash and venom if they break up or don't get together. Like there is a chill end of the spectrum and a crazy end of the spectrum.
I think it's important just to remeber if it is one sided, it is parasocial. If it is mutual and recprocated between only the people in the actual relationship, it's a whole other thing... one might even call it an actual relationship.
Update: her contract has been terminated, she tried to do sth to cool off the drama and ended up breaking ndas o7
Thank you for making this videos, I always forget to take showers because of my parasocial relationships with you and this is the only way to remember that I should wash myself
watch this video everyday then
It was actually really cool to hear you talk about this considering I got into hololive recently. You kinda had a small taste of how the company deals with these kinda big drama situations by looking at what happened with towa, but I recommend looking at the aloe and coco situations. It’s really interesting to see how those things went down.
Oh Boy, ive gone down that rabbit hole before while homeschooling and dont want to go down there again
Thanks for this video. Despite not being into the culture, you had a level-headed and great response to the whole thing. Even more wholesome and understanding than the people within the fandom, which really says a lot. Cheers, and I hope everything about this calms down soon.
Lud does have a very good take on this. A few more things just to add about Rushia and Hololive in general- Rushia is _the largest superchat earner on all of youtube_, and her fanbase is one of the most dedicated fan groups out there, especially evident in money. Her limited character goods have sold out in under 40 seconds before, and she has grown immensely through fostering her community closely, for better or for worse. One of the big things that makes Rushia stand out in this regard is how she does content, and she will put in a lot of time and thought to personally read and thank every single superchat, with dozens of streams several hours long specifically dedicated to thanking superchats. Among Hololive, she probably has the most interaction and engagement with her chat, which definitely does not help in a situation like this. I am deep in the vtuber hole myself and even stayed up until 5am reloading and resetting webpages to snag one of those limited edition goods, and can see how some people unfortunately take it the wrong way. Ideally, noone should be to blame at all, but it should definitely fall on COVER (they own hololive) to set up better guidelines to protect their talents and avoid fostering this sort of community.
This is not the first time a Hololive member has fallen under controversies (Mano Aloe, Akai Haato, Kiryu Coco), and in the past COVER has also done a pretty poor job at protecting them and has not made any active efforts to improve their guidelines. ANYCOLOR, the owners of Nijisanji (the other largest Vtuber corporation) has put in an active effort to protect their talents more. They have set up extensive reporting systems, safety guidelines and codes of conduct for how they intend for people to act and actively avoid fostering a strong idol culture. Just last week even they put out a public statement discouraging goods purchases and superchats from minors and the financially unstable. COVER should really look to try and fix these issues.
What's with the ANYCOLOR shills in the comments? As we speak 2 nijisanji Korea livers are graduating, likely due to bullying and shit management (whole branch is pretty much in shambles), last year Suzuhara lulu graduated because of stalkers just a day before Coco, Roa is still on hiatus since her discord leak (it was more than a year now) nijisanji India was closed with 3 Vtubers having to graduate because ichikara made no market research whatsoever and they pretty much had no local audience etc. there is no proof that ANYCOLOR is doing a better job at all despite having bigger investors behind them like SONY music.
@@ciapatyciapacz5354 Thank you. I've been telling people there's been WWAAAAYYY more graduation from Nijisanji than Hololive cos people keep on saying to me that Nijisanji just manages their people better and that's just BS yo. Nijisanji has just as much problems as Hololive does and maybe even more.
@@ciapatyciapacz5354 Yeah, both companies underestimate how much this affects their talents
@@ciapatyciapacz5354 People need to stop making direct comparisons between the two. Hololive will announce a new wave and they will have 300k subs before they ever stream once, Niji EN has been popping the fuck off and has seen Nijisanji make incredible growth and they're only hitting that 300k mark after months and months. But views and subs are not indicators of quality, both Hololive and Nijisanji make incredibly high quality content for similar, but different audiences. Cover will continue to entrench itself in idol culture because that is the type of content they want to deliver (idol culture has a shit ton of issues, but at its base is not inherently bad), while Nijisanji continues to drift away from it.
Despite having twice the members, Nijisajnji has this stuff happen considerably less than hololive. Part of the reason is 100% because they have less eyes on them, but they cultivate a different type of audience too. I find Nijisanji livers and its community to be much more funny, chill and relatable than Hololive), and its less restrictive nature is refreshing. Holostars and Hololive do not get to interact in the way Niji boys and girls get to because their fans don't give a shit. I still really enjoy a lot of Hololive, but their fans are definitely not chill in the same way. To act like either Cover or Anycolor don't respect and care greatly for their talent is wrong, to act like their problems are similar in nature or comparable is also wrong
@@ciapatyciapacz5354
I'm not particularly keen on defending a company but:
Lulu graduated because Anycolour did too much actually. The stalkers were constantly coming AND constantly being dealt with, even with police involvement. However, every time that happened she had to stop streaming until the situation was dealt with and that is what got her to "quit" (she's streaming elsewhere now). Roa had a personal clash with another member, who iirc is the one who leaked, which was even taken to court for slander and that court case is the reason she isn't streaming. She did goods in the meanwhile (like voicepacks) and recently made a statement that she's going to be back soon (court stuff is still going). KR livers I don't really follow but from what I've heard it's more likely they're busy with school etc. Asian exam times seem to be hell so that'd be understandable. The india branch is hopefully a mistake Anycolour learned from.
a lot of utaites and vtubers are at the very least acquainted so it really wouldnt be weird for them to hang out let alone date. ive been a fan of mafumafu before vtubers were a thing, so seeing some of his fans being relieved it was a misunderstanding also rubs me the wrong way.
edit: mafumafu is taking a break, but he'll probably come back fine from this since he definitely has more casual fans of his music who wont care about all of this compared to his wife fans. feel bad for them :/
we will definitely need an update video now regarding current events
My small bit on the “why do you watch someone” yeah sometimes it is loneliness but I didn’t even realize that until a year ago, but mainly to me it’s for entertainment cause I cannot stand tv stuff. Creators are more genuine and real and make interesting things that I can enjoy because the content is so specific. It’s also inspiring to see someone I’ve seen enough of to relate to in some ways grow or be successful or just be doing what I’d want to be doing. Some creators that encourage parasocial stuff turn me off to the content, I do not vibe with it
Lmao!! Facts, I use vtubers for entertainment. I only watch youtube because everything else has no meaning to watch so I feel you.
I honestly love this channel and I'm glad Ludwig started doing this types of video since most youtubers or streamers tend to stay in their own lane and ignore the rest of the content creation scene but Ludwig is aware of it and kinda talk about it without it being bias.
I think this video is pretty informative although there's a bit of lack of information about the roles of the talents from hololive, and, in specific, the idea of the "Yandere-gf" role that Rushia has been depicting ever since she debuted.
Most of the talents like Korone, Pekora, etc. don't really have a "character" to follow after the first few weeks of them debuting, they do exaggerate the "quirkiness" of their personalities I'm sure, but other than that they are pretty much themselves in camera, there have been some talents before that have come out with the idea of them having a bf, or some kind of love interest, and even though there has always been a decline in viewership after, they are in no way comparable to Rushia's drama.
Rushia has kept her character of yandere ever since she debuted, she commonly guilt trips viewers when they go see other vtubers and/or for having real life gfs, even in some cases showing "breakdowns" off character because of the idea of the viewers "leaving her forever", I'm sure you can see how this has cause a large amount of lonely viewers to think of her as a pseudo-girlfriend or something like that; also, she's the most super-chatted of all hololive talents, being most of super-chats "love letters" ; plus the merch that lud showed in the video (the wedding ring) , was also a limited edition sale.
I don't want to sound like an anti or an incel, and I really hope nothing bad happens to Rushia because of the drama, but she has done some exploitative tactics of her more sensitive viewers, and she's to blame at least a little for appealing to that kind of audience.
Thank you for reading and I hope I made myself clear, I'm not native in the english language so please tell me if I made some typos, just wanted to shed some light in some of the more moral grey-areas of the situation.
Nothing wrong with your message and no typos from what I notice! Completely agree with your comment and think that she has made some mistakes of being unable to hide her Discord message. As for the engagement rings and other exploitative tactics, it may be a difference in culture of how parasocial relationships are perceived in Japan vs the rest of the world but I definitely think she made a dumb mistake of letting her IRL intrude into her character when she is employing such tactics.
@@DannyKim101 I don’t think that the problem is that she didn’t control this stuff, it’s that she created this persona. Maybe it is the culture in Japan but if it is… it’s even worse? You know acting like someones love to get money from them i think is morally wrong in the first place. But still, if you get hooked into this stuff, you should probably rethink some things.
@@franekkkkk That's definitely the problem that's in my mind since I've heard plenty of JP people that are essentially no-lives enjoy giving their time and energy into an idol GF like Rushia but there are obviously some serious flaws with such relationships with how toxic it becomes with such talks of betrayal and how much money is being farmed from them with the egregious amount of superchats and things like wedding rings
I'm glad others also feel that way. I've been watching Hololive since early 2019 and been a "fan" of Rushia since then. She genuinely enjoys making her viewers' days better but she failed to draw the line between herself and her audience. Some of the other girls have done it in order to minimize the damage a controversy like this would cause for their careers (example: Fubuki correcting people when they call her "wife" instead of "friend").
While others have done the opposite (like Nene saying she is married to everyone lol). I believe the responsability does fall a little on the streamer for not setting boundaries and for thinking that being everybody's online girlfriend would create healthy relationships between Viewer-Streamer
Yeah, I don’t know. I feel as if this argument falls slightly under the “girl was wearing slutty clothes, so I thought it was okay to grope her.”
No matter how she acts on the internet, getting upset at a male’s presence is strictly a problem within the viewer. Saying she fostered this type of community kinda undermines her and her community, and still falls under the victim blaming scale in my opinion. People can choose to dislike her persona or not, but the person herself is not in the wrong here. And in the day, the average viewer understands that the persona itself, is still a real person. It is still reality, and not a fully fictional character. People who complain are obsessed with virginity to an unhealthy amount, so nobody should give them any sort of ammo.
There are morally grey situations, but I’m 100% on one end in this situation.
getting this in my feed a bit late, but i'm glad i saw it. i'm glad people outside the vtuber space are talking about this, because when people outside of a space start talking bad about something inside the space, you know it's some shit.
the worst part is, for those who are not aware, this led to rushia being fired and having her contract cut. she did an interview with a japanese youtube channel trying to defend herself in this situation, and in doing so, apparently shared confidential information from cover corp, the company that runs hololive. if not for idol culture, and that discord message meaning what it means in the idol space, she would still be doing what she loved. mind you, this was not only one of cover's largest moneymakers, but one of the highest superchatted channels on all of youtube.
tl;dr
rushia was then fired shortly after this situation went viral because she tried to defend herself and accidentally leaked private company info.
“Lost in the parasocial sauce”
-Lud
Thanks for covering this, it’s absolutely insane.
Thank you for your take as well! Your video was the first one I saw and I think it did a great job in giving people like me credible info on the situation even if it did not cover all the nuances
Pog u are here
wow Lud covering this is giving me whiplash; my worlds are colliding
Great video, you really open minded the entire fiasco.
I would just argue that the number of people that fall too deep into that para social mentality is a lot higher then you think for the "Idol" community. A lot of the "Idols" or "Vtubers" sell themselves on the para social behavior and over sexualize themselves and provide the mentality that you are their boyfriend. (Rushia in this case told chat they are all her boyfriend and thats her thing)
Some blame the people who develop the parasocial mentality but I'd blame the people who implement it into their minds.
It's actually genuinely becoming a terrible thing to where it's increasing and makes it incredibly unhealthy for those that fall victim to it.
In my experience I had to comfort a friend that wanted to end his life because of his favorite vtuber was "graduating". I did end up guiding him to a therapist to get help over it but it goes to show the true damage companies like hololive and independent vtubers can have if they farm those kind of relationships for income.
*Note, I write this comment to spread awareness since I've experienced first hand how bad and low it can make someone. It's too spread awareness of how terrible companies and independent vtubers can be by spreading such a relationship to farm revenue. I hope it gets realized how bad this problem can be and spread awareness for people to learn not to get into that type of mentality or the streamer in question not to feed such thoughts*
Wow I’m impressed by your take on vtubers especially since you learned that all today. The reason why I like watching vtubers (I mostly watch English ‘vtubers’ on twitch though) is pretty much for the reason you described.
i’m surprised that ludwig decided to cover this but i am happy to see that he seemed to take some effort into learning about what he was talking about rather than going in blindly for clicks
I think the Rushia shit is dumb but i do just want to point out just in case he doesn’t go over it in the video that her entire brand is GFE (girlfriend experience, aka pretending to be viewers’ gfs) and she literally just released bridal-themed merch so this could not have been timed worse
I've been watching hololive since 2018 and I can say that the only thing you got wrong persay was the fact that hololive as a whole does not farm para-social relationships. It's more up to the streamer how they handle their fanbase and that was just how rushia handled her fanbase. Thanks by the way, you covered this better than most people even in the hololive Fandom.
@Jamie Last bruh that just streaming in general. Parasocial is not exclusive to Hololive or Vtuber
@Jamie Last you watching mogul mail, you already parasocial to begin with
proud of ludwigs take on the thing. it is vissible he took lot of time to understand and explain whole situation.
“this will be in new york times” lud that’s a newspaper.. i think you mean times square
I really like these videos because I think you're actually a smart, invested expert with online culture. You spend probably more of your life dealing with presence online than most, and when you speak to how a creator engages with an audience, how a parasocial relationship can take place, specifically from a creators pov, it comes across as more valid than most. You've got skin in the game when it comes to it, moreso than most. That's why I like this channel, it's not "lud is my friend he's so smart" it's more, Here's someone with a wealth of experience, cultivated over multiple years in a field where there's no education for it. It's found by hard work and effort. I really do hope you keep making this content, I really enjoy watching someone speak with what feels like authority about something they obviously care about.
Thank you ludwig for this channel for i have been looking to binge
TW: Suicide, stalking, harassment.
English is not my first language.
As a japanese person i can confirm how toxic these “expectations” can be. Even tho most people are lovely some aspects of the japanese mindset are horrible. But instead of talking about my life, id like to talk about my childhood best friends.
Ayaka was one of the most wonderful, loving, funny, caring personalities out there and that didnt stop at her personal life, she was a small VTuber throughout 2017-2019, she’d stream and make videos from her room and even tho she was small she was always hard working, and when she picked up the tiniest bit of traction (a couple hundred follower) i was thrilled for her.
Unfortunately, within the tiny community she had created, she had caught the eyes of a vile man. He took advantage of her kindness and exploited her, going as far as to come to our small town to find her. It got so bad that she moved to Wakayama City, the closest city to our town.
He came up with a narrative in his head, that they were together, and that she had run of with her new boyfriend and that he was just there to talk some sense into her.
He stalked her relentlessly, he came to our school, he came to our club activities, he would find and take paparazzi style pictures of her then slide them into her mail box with lude captions which roughly translated to "I want to fuck you brains out" "you are mine" "my toy" then more threatening ones such as "I’m going to find you and kill you" "I’m coming for your family" "i know where your friends live" along with my address.
Ayaka later told me that that was what pushed her over the edge, the fact that he was now targeting her friends to get to her, and so she quit content creation and moved away.
In march of 2020 Ayaka return to our town and i was so happy to see her, we met up with all our friends and went to the small donut shop nearby. She looked so much better then the last time i saw her. She didnt look as sad as the last time we called each other, she told me she was doing better, that she had it all under control. Apparently the stalker had stopped soon after she quit and moved and i breathed a sigh oh relief. Finally, this nightmare was over. After that, she said goodbye and a letter. When i opened it, it was a picture of our friendship from our first day of kindergarten to a couple day prior. All there, tangible in my hands. I hugged her goodbye and told her to call me when she got home. She didnt.
That was the last time i ever saw Ayaka. She killed herself 24 hours after our last interaction.
She left me a last note, a final goodbye. In it she said that she had lied. It hadnt stopped, it never stopped. The same man had found her again, gone to her school to reveal nude drawings he had made of them together having sexual intercorse.
He followed her everywhere, he didnt leave her alone, not even after she quit content creation. She told me that I was the greatest friend that she'd ever have and that she was sorry she couldnt pull through but she couldnt see a future for herself anymore.
She told me she loved me, and to remember her well. And told me it was ok to cry. That was such and Ayaka thing to do.
Think about my feelings before her own.
This man killed my best friend. He stalked her relentlessly. He took everything from her, her happiness, her innocence, her laughter and smile, her everything. He took her from me, her family. He robbed the world of a kind soul. And he didnt stop. He kept taking and taking until she was nothing but a corpse hanging from her roof.
This man killed my best friend.
He tied the noose around her neck.
Ayaka I miss you everyday, Rest In Peace.
nice book
@@penggrin it’s the story of my best friends suicide, I’d write a fucking novel to say goodbye one more time
I am so sorry for your loss... I know that it's bbetter for you and hope that the man is found and if the v tuber still has the account please tell!
This is actually so sad. I hope you are doing well.
God damn, I was not expecting this when I went into the comment section. So sorry for your loss, this kind of shit gets me
When I thought I wanted a Lud + Hololive collab, this wasn't what I expected lmao
He collaborated with Ironmouse so thats something
People can get the same entertainement(even imagine-relationship-wise) when watching someone who is openly in a relationship, or watching them interact so, in my opinion, hololive pushing so much of this imagine-you're-my-boyfriend type of business is just plain evil and unecessary
I think you need an update about this
Damn, to think there was so much sht going on behind the scenes with their relationship. And I thought they were so innocent.