Twitch Needs to Stop Gambling Streamers
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2022
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edited by: fifty take freddy (it was late leave me alone)
Reason 3: If he does it while live, he can gamble his businesses' money and all gains/losses are counted on corporate tax instead of personal. Expenses from the gambling can be used as tax write offs.
this
big brain
and hes still earning more money from the sponsorship on top of that
Correct me if im wrong but I think you can only write of losses only upto the amount you win. I still agree gambling should not be allowed on general entertainment platforms.
@@mk7893 then completely ban the csgo community no more case openings no more loot boxes of any kind cancel the nfl collaborations and the sports betting sponsors that come with them this idea that gambling is a small section or it’s relatively new is so dumb the majority of the platform has some form of gambling in it he’ll even most chats let you gamble with CHANNEL POINTS
never liked the fact that gambling was allowed on twitch, cause they get sponsored and it’s really scummy imo
Get over it the platform can have whatever content they allow on their
@@Arbitrary_Martyr Get over it people can shit on the platform as much as they are allow
@@Arbitrary_Martyr no
@ХХХТЕNТАСlON Shorts 🅥 I don't know what "it" is referring to but it sure isn't your father
@@Arbitrary_Martyr FR if you don't like it don't watch it
Every single dollar, that xQc gets paid out, is a dollar someone from his community lost gambling on that website. Otherwise they would not pay him that much.
That’s the simple math that I can’t believe that those streamers don’t see.
it is fake cash because those apps dont pay these guys 10 mill a month that is a a load of garbage they use streamers to funnel 10 mill a month through that streamer back into their own casino / FAKE CASH period these guys act like oh im getting "pAiD" it's like NO NO your fing Not they do Not intend for you to keep 10 mill a month NO they are funneling that cash through you back to themselves / FAKE MONEY so NO your Not getting "pAiD" to do this it is fake cash
@@MatheusVenti lol they see it but choose to ignore it
Whats wrong with gambling? Just because you gamble doesn't mean you are addicted.
@@benh1047 the fact that you asked a question like that just shows you choose to be ignorant to the obvious. You know
Mogul Mail is one of the reasons I’ve come to really enjoy and respect Ludwig both as a content creator and person. Keep keeping it real Lud.
He knows Slime is a gambling addict, streams the biggest poker game Slime is ever going to be in, and then tries to say xqc is a problem because he promotes gambling to gambling addicts...
I've lived with drug addicts and ludwig is 100% acting the way that some addicts do. No accountability for what they've done wrong and when they start to feel guilty about what they've done they point the finger at someone else and say they're worse.
@@dudestolemyname69 It was a singular poker event. It only happened once, and they played poker, that although is still gambling envolves skill. And they played on an official casino, not something shady. You can't compare both.
I enjoy it more the main channel if I am being honest. It shows just how smart he actually is.
@@Patinhazz Why invite a recovering gambling addict to the event though? Thats like giving a beer to an ex-alcoholic that usually drinks liquor. Yes poker is more skill based than slots or roulette but its still giving an addict their fix even if it is not as strong as the other forms of that addiction
@@stonedmason614 You're talking like he aint his friend. Besides, again, single event. Theyre not activelly promoting a poker company hours on end, they went to a cool, one time thing, and left. And the event was the most laid back thing ever.
As an Juicer, I feel that him promoting gambling to such a huge audience is honestly pretty bad and ALSO (not to be game complain andy) gamba content in general is something i was never fond of, it always seemed like repetitive & low-effort content *to me.*
yeah, last night was so boring, just watching the slots for literally 5 hours, can't understand how that is entertaining if you are not one of the ones winning the money
@don't be surprised who asked
he literally says dont gamble?
@@danksouls6128 “just one hour of gamba” he said…. Aware
@@lahecoq2417 Just saying ‘don’t gamble’ doesn’t reverse the effect of streaming gambling for hours with huge numbers and bright flashing colours and crazy reactions to thousands of impressionable kids who absorb shit like that very easily.
The whole "don't gamble" blurb these guys give is laughable to me because they _know_ nobody pays attention to that. The reason these gambling services are paying them millions of dollars is because those streamers are making them far more than their investment. The streamers are knowingly selling their viewers to the devil for a bigger check.
"drink responsibly" lol
Yeah and they’re not saying that bc they’re actually concerned about the safety of their audience; they’re doing it to cover their behinds if one of their audience loses big and then points to the streamer as encouraging them to play
@@JediMaestr0 luckily in some states that won't cover their asses if someone decided to sue.
Absolutely agreed pal. They might speak loud, but their actions show completely different things.
Yup and the "if you dont like it dont watch" ya I may not watch it but I know how many people you are negatively influencing and I dont think it's right
I think children need to be protected from this type of content. Not because they will spend any money now, but because they are the next wave of potential addicts. If they are subjected to this content from a young age, their own stance on gambling will be affected in the future.
Video game addiction is a real thing. Should we ban people from streaming video games then?
@@benh1047 there's a huge difference between staying up all night playing cod and being cripplingly addicted to gambling you goober .
@@jimjam4627 There's a huge difference between staying up all night playing slots and being cripplingly addicted to video games you goober.
Just because you have a gambling addiction doesn't mean its "cripplingly addicted"
@@benh1047 ....are a few screws loose in that noggin of yours bruv?
@@Masonia_ No. I just can actually think logically unlike people like you who can't explain any of their positions, other than saying something is good or bad, because good is good and bad is bad.
As a 32 year old dude I'll have to put it out there. Yesterday I lost it all. I lost everything I had on my bank account. Which was like 5000$. I had a shit ton of things to do with that money and I out of nowhere lost it all. To be complete honest I thought watching gambling streams didnt make me do this shit but watching them did trigger me to do it. Yesterday i lost it all without even knowing why. Now I have to work so much to recover that money and it is not worth it. Luckily I didnt lose someone elses money but mine. I hope I never go back to it. Cause yes, sometimes you can win big, but when you lose, all I did yesterday was to think about ending everything. It is hard guys. Dont think you can "stop" whenever you want, cause you'll end up on one day not giving a fuck and trying to win that big one. And you'll probably wont. Stay safe from it.
Im glad you didnt end it! Addiction is a mf but I think you can make it!
Thank you for sharing that--I am really sorry this happened to you. (By the way, I'm 35--and with these tough times we seem to be entering right now, I know losing that money had to hurt.) You'll make it back! Best wishes to you.
I wish you well on your road to recovery, good luck! Gambling really is horrible, no one ever wins in the long run
If this isn’t the most bullshit story I’ve ever seen
lol
It's just sad to watch someone be actively addicted, even if it's not something like drugs or alcohol. I hope xqc and other streamers can get help and these scummy companies stop targeting these people
It’s annoying because comments like yours mostly get ignored and everyone is just shitting on xqc and calling him a horrible person.
Suicide rates are extremely high for gambling addiction and people are shitting on someone that’s very obviously addicted just because they’re a streamer.
Not trying to be tasteless but when Etika went “crazy” and people just made fun of him, using him as entertainment and when it turned out he took his own life those same people were suddenly surprised and extremely saddened.
My hope is that history doesn’t repeat itself again.
agree, it's sad watching an addict person
I agree. I can't really blame XQC and in fact I think he is right. It's his choice and it's stupid to think of him as a rolemodel. I just don't think celebrities are the ones that should teach morals. It's Twitchs responsibility to ban this type of content and I hope they do. I have a love//hate relationship with gambling. I enjoy watching it but I hate doing so. Why? Because it's bad, you can't win and I never gambled for money but it makes me want to. I start to think "just once for fun, maybe it's the lucky one, you don't know if you never tried it" and it annoys me. That's the most honest I can be about it
Nope. It's entertainment. Get off your high horse
@@user-bn3yy8qf5g okay Andrew.
As someone with an insanely addictive personality, I have vowed to never gamble. I went to rehab a few years back for substance abuse. One of the things I learned is that the first time doing something is the easiest to avoid and the most dangerous if done. If there is any doubt in your head about trying something for fear of overdoing it after, DONT DO IT. Because stopping gets much much harder the further you go. Avoidance is the best cure.
Edit: with that said, environment is a major factor towards decision making. If you’re on the fence about gambling for example, and you spend 10 hours watching your favorite streamer gamble. You’ve just exponentially increased your chances of trying your first slot pull. Addiction is the most slippery slope in the world and I promise you that you don’t want to see how far down the slope goes. I’m begging you guys. Getting sober was the hardest thing I’ve ever done and I still face challenges 3 1/2 years later I could have avoided with better decisions 10 years ago
There's a reason why they say battling addiction is an endless battle.
I have had problems with gambling fake currency in games and then spending real money for more fake currency to gamble more such as Maplestory scrolling back in the pre-2010’s.
The only way I’ve gotten out of gambling is repeating in my head, I have gambling problems. Thankfully, when gacha came around, I already learned my lesson so I’ve spent little money on any gacha games.
I did spend about 120 dollars on Genshin but that was after a year of having spent nothing in the game and playing the game at least a couple hours, every day prior. I definitely got more than my money’s worth from Genshin but have friends who are in the thousands for FGO.
If you’re embarrassed with how much you spent in a game, maybe there’s a reason for it. Part of it is on addictive mechanics but part of it on the gambler. Overcoming that itch to roll is tough but I feel way better about myself being able to say no to gamba.
I personally had this with self-harming and witnessed a friend go through it with gambling, drug addiction and nicotine addiction. The gambling started when he was 14 with csgo betting websites. All these addictions are still problems to this day. What The Lott Cast is saying is true, don't dismiss it
Just wanted to say congrats on your sobriety!
Only people with weak minds already would get into shit with addictions after watching content of it. If someone gets a gambling addiction off a twitch stream then they deserve it. Trying to go back and blame it on some random guy across the world talking to a computer is mentally insane
If they’re paying a streamer 4 million a month think of how they’re making all of that money, those poor people who got suckered in….. I feel for anyone who has lost everything to gambling
it is fake cash because those apps dont pay these guys 10 mill a month that is a a load of garbage they use streamers to funnel 10 mill a month through that streamer back into their own casino / FAKE CASH period these guys act like oh im getting "pAiD" it's like NO NO your fing Not they do Not intend for you to keep 10 mill a month NO they are funneling that cash through you back to themselves / FAKE MONEY so NO your Not getting "pAiD" to do this it is fake cash
and yet streamers have the audacity to tell people they are down millions
So I agree with 99% of what you said, but I still dislike the streamers who do this. "With great power comes great responsibility"; these people made their careers off the backs of their fans, and while they don't owe them much, I believe that they do need to, at the very least, not promote harmful stuff. Not everyone needs to feel that way, but I do, I do think it's super scummy. Yes, primarily this is on Twitch for allowing sponsored gambling content, and the Canadian and Mexican governments for not cracking down (I'm still not sure why they can't do this in the US). Still I hold these streamers responsible, they *know* bad stuff is gonna happen, they don't care. There's a difference between saying Streamers need to be *positive* role models, vs. what I'm saying, which is that they shouldn't actively endorse bad stuff.
So people also shouldn't drink alcohol or do drugs/ be on drugs on stream or in videos? Cause although you may not want to admit it that is also promoting harmful stuff which Lud himself has done on his stream and on the yard. I personally don't have a problem with any of it cause I think the viewers should be able to use their brain and take responsibility for their own actions. I just think their is a bit of a double standard when it comes to gambling over other potentially harmful things.
You got a point, but you can see xqc losing a lot of money and you would be an idiot if you gamble after seeing how much xqc is losing his shit. I like to think of it as showing them how much you'll lose if you gamble
Hi jrose!
@@Damennn you also shouldn’t play violent video games because they obviously cause violence irl.
@@Damennn you make a good point, however, gambling *seems* to be more prevalent than drugs or alcohol. plus I think the way it is presented on stream (I.e. if it is the focus of the content or is it just in the background) and how people tend to react differently when seeing gambling vs substances. regardless, I do still thing there is *some* responsibility the streamer has when it comes to the content they put out (I.e. having warnings) but if due diligence is taken then it really then falls into the individual and the platform
I read the title wrong and thought "How does one gamble a streamer?"
Finally the bots are here
english major
thought it said*
I think the problem with these streams with online gamba games is that it inherently promotes an easy to access, specific website. It's not the same as promoting gambling in general, ie by making bets with friends on stream or opening pokemon cards. In the same way that promoting a risky nft or whatever is met with disdain, encouraging viewers to risk their money online with little barrier to entry while the streamer benefits in a privileged position is scummy imo, regardless of disclaimers.
Yeah this is a very clean line. It's not super wishy washy. The more enabling you are too harmful behavior the worse it is
that makes sense
yeah, and besides, the casinos wouldn't be willing to give them big payouts if the disclaimers were actually effective at discouraging the viewers from gambling, because otherwise theyd probably demand streamers didnt do the disclaimers to maximise profits
@@horrorterrorharvey Well put. They know what's going on, they know that the disclaimers are the nice window dressing that will let them abuse the system as long as possible.
@@horrorterrorharvey The disclaimers are only there because they are required to. But you bet if they would have carte blanche they would sell their own mother out.
Had a gambling issue for 11 years. My relationship ended due to my gambling addiction, which made me quit gambling. I managed to stay away from gambling completely for 2 full years, until I came across a Twitch streamer who streamed slots. Seeing the gambling content, and how easy it was to deposit and withdraw on crypto casinos, was such a trigger for me. I'm now back deep in my addiction.
I don't blame the streamer, I know it's my own fault that I'm gambling. But man, I wish I never came across the gambling content on Twitch.
The big thing is I can't ban myself from crypto websites like I can from casinos so it makes it even harder to beat the addiction.
@@waaghghazghkull6362 exactly, that's a really big issue, i know in my country you can in 2 minutes get yourself permenantly locked out of all official gambling sites, that's possible because all official gambling sites has to use goverment login, so theres no bypass to it. where as even if crypto gambling sites got something like that you can always use a vpn or make new accounts. getting locked out of those sites never works. gambling addicts will always find a way
witch i'm sure is intentional...
@@Skaar01 sounds like you're from Sweden? :)
@@lahtin3n Denmark
When I tell you I literally spent the last week and a half writing a sociology thesis around gambling disorder because I know damn well I have it myself. I watch this literally around 3 hours after I submitted it, and I am very grateful, as I knew damn well that while I was writing this paper, it was because of my own problems. Thank you for this.
Respect homie! I'm about to submit my MS in human rights thesis. Good luck with yours
Finally, someone said it. These streamers make more money off their sponsorships than they do gambling, but it lets the sponsor win since so many people join. Like they say, House always wins.
Well technically I make more money from my 0 gambling sponsorships than from gambling.
Because gambling is always losing, there is no making money gambling.
You know, I don't think that's quite true, Hasan has been very vocal about this for a while
Obviously they make more money from sponsorships, you can't win anything from gambling, doesn't everyone know that?
@@nathansw0rld not always losing, its that over a long period of time you are mathematically likely to lose, and that the house will win from the combination of many losses compared to a few wins. It doesn't make it impossible to win- its not the lottery- which is why so many people think they have a chance
@@sneezemachine well not everyone, otherwise the gambling sponsor would be out of business. this is true in a lot of places besides gambling- ricegums infamous video about lucky crates for example- people just are drawn to gambling/luck especially at younger ages. the solution would be to stop these streams or make them age restricted: studies show younger audiences cant tell the difference between sponsored and unsponsored content, especially before adulthood
What I respect about Ludwig is that he’s introspective. He always seems to worry that he’s at moral fault even when he’s fine, which is better than people who deny moral fault even when they’re up to their neck in it.
LOL, what
@@sprendinea hahaha omg no way
Did you AND him forget that he hosted a $1,000,000 poker game just like 2 weeks ago?
@@noahstoner851 I think poker is generally seen in a better light than slots type games. While luck is involved, skill and strategy are also a part of it vs the dumb luck of slots. It also made for great colab content while these other streams are a dude clicking a button over and over again. It’s just different in my opinion
Ludwig is awesome you can tell he cares about more than just the money
I respect the hell out of lud for being able and willing to talk about the dark stuff like this.
Every time xQc does something bad and his audience shows concern on a base human level, he acts like an edgelord about it and doubles down, literally, and acts like a bigger asshole.
The way xQc doubled down and got super defensive when called out is clear cut typical addictive behavior. "You all act like you're perfect how about you stop worrying about me and worry about your own lives" I've seen it all to many times before
Its really sad to see gambling making a comback. Never liked it after the first 3 days that was just hype because of a big win. Twitch really has to do something about this. Its not an Influencer problem its a Twitch problem. I think Lud is right with the no sponsored gambling but no gambling at all would be the best.
The depressing part is to see people who are actually addicted and not just moneyhungry, immoral scammers stoop so low.
I agree, I would rather Twitch just ban gambling overall. Since xQc and Train are self-admitted gambling addicts, they can just do it off-stream. Like, I don't see why they NEED to do it on-stream, except for the fact they're getting sponsored and receiving huge amounts of money
I have a friend with aspergers who is easily influenced and it was a shame to see him fall for gambling streams and card unboxing streams which was just gambling for kids. No matter how much we would tell him that he had a problem he would say "its okay im $500 up" without telling how much hes actually lost until he finally got lucky.
@@UmarTahir doing it on stream means it can be written off taxes as losses according to a viewer
@@tix3027 i hope he manages to stop man it's hard but he'll lose more than gain. sad
@@emeraldbonsai i do wish it would push the game to be less gambling directed but it is a gacha. im unsure bc ure right its the same problem there
I think the issue is playing slots on stream, as they get sponsored by the casino. I'd argue games like Poker aren't nearly as dangerous to the viewers of the community. But I do think regardless, livestreams like that should have some sort of age restriction if at all possible.
I think the biggest thing is poker has a winner. The casino isn’t walking away with any money won, you sit at a table with 5 ppl with 50k someone or multiple walk out up. I think it matters a human walks away with it
Literally they have age restrictions
@@EJassassin1530 I am pretty sure that the casino takes a cut
@@liamrivers3283 the casino takes a fixed percentage of every pot, but at that point it’s a fixed cost on a service they offer; there is no chance or gambling as they take it win or lose
@@liamrivers3283 So does Twitch. People playing each other is totally different from slots or roulette.
I have friends that started gambling and haven't stopped since this gambling thing started on twitch. I can't speak to how well they are doing financially but it does at least prove to me that no matter how much they say they shouldn't be taken as role models, they are and are influencing others to gamble with them.
The role model excuse is bs, its in the job description, like it or not you are litterally an "influencer."
Damn this take aged like fine wine
Either stop the gambling streams, or make it age restricted, add disclaimers and helpline numbers for addicts. There are essentially gambling addict help centers all over the world, make a big site where you add links to a few centers from every state, every country. And help centers should be able to submit themselves to the list.
Gambling can and will ruin lives, so if you want to promote it, you should promote self help for addiction too.
Age restriction on the stream? They already have that. All you have to do us lie and say you're 18.
@@robinlaszlo that's why twitch needs to add an age verification method.
age restriction isnt the problem like lud explained the children dont really have a way to get their hands on that type of money anyway. Its more about people with addiction being able to watch this type of content and the platform not doing anything about this type of harmful content going live. Its like drugs, its not that people cant get it its just that its not showed to you 10 times a day so the incentives to try it isnt as atractive.
I’m 21 years old & i review weed products on my CZcams channel as my job👀, tryna make if out the hood, it’s crazy out here fam
@@jonahthrane812 I mean they should have that on all social media I think we'd be surprised how much underage people are lying and starting shit on there. They just won't do that though.
This is exactly my view. Lud you have perfectly explained my feelings on this situation. I am a terrible gambling addict, like I’ve spent everything I have earned on CZcams at one point gambling. And the way I got into gambling was through sponsored csgo gaming videos (which I didnt know were sponsored at that time). Seeing people quadruple their money every video prompted me in putting large sums of money into skins in order to play on these csgo gambling websites. But then, these websites transitioned more into slot & table games websites. And that was the point where I couldn’t stop. Seeing people all in on roulette or buy several thousand dollar bonus buys, cost me all my hard work on CZcams. This is why when I see some of my favorite streamers or creators promote these websites I feel particularly bad. As I know there will be people in my shoes who get into gambling and get quickly addicted… and if you are addicted you will always lose regardless. Also, as Lud mentioned, I can’t even bare to watch these gambling streams as I KNOW they will get me back into the terrible loop of gambling addiction. I really hope Twitch puts a stop to this…
I’m very sorry you went through all of that, and now again have to deal with it. Stay strong and keep your head up, and reach out of help if you need it dude. The laughs from a streamer aren’t worth it if it can cost you your life. Good to hear you’re staying away from it. Wishing the best for you man
you fee bad cause you lost dude lol. and thats ok but be honest with yourself about it.
@@lvl5charmander an addict will always lose. they cant stop when they're up. that's the point.
@@parmesanshaman9019 dont get it twisted you will not win
@@lvl5charmander bait comment good effort tho
I appreciate you sharing your issues with gambling in the past. I remember hearing you talk about it before at some point as well.
I found online gambling about a year ago from Twitch and got hooked on it for about a month. This was in the middle of summer right before I would be finally moving out in my second year of college. I got hooked and lost about 3 grand in a couple weeks. It made my life significantly harder for the following year and I never would have even gotten into that mess if I had not been exposed to slot streams. Yes, it was my fault, however, I do not think that justifies advertising gambling to such a young audience.
I was one of the lucky ones who stopped before it got too serious, but it still fucked me over for awhile. I can only imagine how much of a mess others get into; I also wonder how some streamers continue to gamble knowing the impact it has on their audience. Even if it's 1% of their audience getting hooked, that still has to feel absolutely terrible to think about.
I applaud you for staying away from gambling and will always support you!
P.S: I'm a mizzy viewer first though mizkifHug
The level of censorship and hostility from X in his stream and chat today (including only letting gamba positive dono’s play on stream), gaslighting longtime supporters and fans who have made his career what it is today, and knowingly passing over legitimate concerns and posts on his Reddit only to read the one or two posts which he has pre-read to support his fallacy is just crazy. I didn’t think this day would ever come but here we are. Sad day to be a juicer
The most preparation he’s done for any piece of content is for *self preservation* . He can’t be bothered to do anything that actually takes a lot of effort (most streamers are guilty of that), but to make such an effort to stop your fans, knowing that you’re going to get money out of them one way or another, from expressing how fucked up it is, is just scummy. If anything this has really just shown to everyone more directly than ever that Felix just simply has no morals, no ethics, no empathy for hurting others. And that’s hard to say because he seems like a nice guy. But here he is showing us his true self through his actions. Sadge man
summed up my view perfectly, I enjoyed my stay
Yeah dude been subscribed for years. Now I think I am unsubscribing
I mean, X has always been immature, disrespectful, doesn't think about what he says and acts impulsively. Now you just disagree with him so you take it more seriously.
@@SocialistFinn1the difference is what he is doing now is legitimately harmful
I worked in a casino for over a decade. Gambling is like cocaine. Rich man's dream, poor man's nightmare. Everybody wants to win big on $100. 99.98% of you will never get that lucky. You need money to break even and then it's through comps and free stuff. Give the casino long enough and they will always win.
The way xqc did it is why his community feels back stabbed. It was like grooming, with the gamba jokes starting in mario kart to the csgo boxes, all trying to normalize it to his stream. and then he takes a flight to canada, 2 days in, sponsor streamed. Kinda disgusting IMO.
I dont think x tried to "groom" viewers into gambling as MK bets have been a staple for atleast a year and a half and csgo crates are cosmetics used in game but the move to canada was 100% intentional imo.
@@BroMomento69 I'm kinda lost on him moving onto Canada part, people kept saying it, but no one says why he moved to Canada, can you feel it for my dudes?
Is there like a law on Canada or in America about gambling?
@@Jaxv3r online gambling is illegal in the US but not Canada
I felt like him gamba in other games wasn’t grooming for viewers but more of his addiction showing. It is pretty sad to see tho :/
As an ex fan, i agree. He's killed all positive thoughts i had on the guy. I hope it ruins him
I’ve never really considered how wide spread or the scary gambling addiction is until you put a face to the problem. Good video and solid awareness
Bro, you just have to think about it for a second. How much money do you think gambling websites make when they pay a content creator 4 Million $. To spend this much on an ad you gotta be making a whole lot more than that
@@p529. It really is and must be within the 10x to 50x digits... It takes a few players that are hooked completely.
What I find really interesting is how this is even allowed on the platform. In my country (and the state I live in especially) it is super illegal to promote gambling in that way. I think the platform really should take responsibility here… but as if that would ever happen.
Rumor is the recent ban on casino's is only to guarantee twitch percentage on gambling advertisement. You can still promote but it has to be legal.
The top streamers really do make too much money when they can just casual gamble so much of it away like it's kind of ridiculous.
A lot of the time the gambling company actually gives content creators money so they don’t even use their own money.
@@lololololololol2012 oh I know that I just still personally count it as making money. It either way still just insane.
After just purchasing a McLaren and losing nearly $2 million in the last month alone, it sounds like gambling finally caught up to him. It's very likely that he took this deal to fund his addiction.
Between this and the react meta, this is sort of the problem I realized with streamers and their platform. At the end of the day, streamers are "normal people" and normal people don't like being told what to do, even if what they want to do is a danger to themselves, their audience, and their platform. People always set the bar for what's morally okay, just below what their doing, and get really massive success makes it hard for people to admit their wrong lol.
@@sugar262 It's not just you who's guilty of doing this. Every single person does this at one point or another. It's an inherent flaw that humans have, that you need to come to recognize yourself. It's biases like this towards yourself that allows people to rationalize their own actions, while still maintaining the belief of moral superiority towards others.
"People always set the bar for what's morally okay"
This 100%, I like ludwigs videos but it's not like him losing 50k$ gambling in Vegas and hosting a 1M Poker event is a morally good thing to do
Thank god. Someone needed to say this.
Yup, I'm a gambling addict myself. I tend to get addicted to a lot of things. Nowadays I use an anti-gambling service to block sites across my devices, and it's helped quite a bit. It hasn't always been able to stop me though, as an addict will always find a way to feed its addictions - but now I'm down to relapsing/playing maybe once or twice a year, and it's steadily decreasing. It truly is really really hard...
Oh, and to add: YES, online casinos do add "streamer money" onto their accounts for streams. They top up their account for each stream, but the streamer is not allowed (in most instances) to withdraw any funds. Some streamer are allowed to withdraw, but only an x amount of money (example, casino tops up 5K for a streamer to play with, they are allowed to withdraw but only like 30K max), it depends on the contract they have with the streamer. I know this for a fact because I worked in two different major online gambling companies for 3 years.
Any details on scummy practices they do?
@@W-G I can't speak for all casinos, especially not the ones hosting their in-house games but it's a common belief that casinos rig their games for streamers. If you have your own built (in-house) games then sure, technically you could tweak the odds, but casinos that rent slots for their websites from various providers (the studio/company names you see when launching a slot game) cannot actually change the odds and such.
As for scummy practices, I don't like the VIP aspect. Companies do not only have rakeback systems to get you money back depending on how much you spend, they also have VIP departments. If you spend a lot of money, you'll get your own account manager that will send you some free cash at times, they'll call you, check up on you, send you iPhones, tickets to football games, pay for flights and shit like that. Makes an addict feel very special for spending their money and will prompt them to continue spending money.
I have a question
What gets you in any addictive activity?
I think it has to be exposure. Easy exposure to everything is the main reason.
So isn't it a streamers responsibility to not expose multiple harmful things to their young audience?
Iv literally watched streams where stevewilldoit texts a roobet employee and gets a reload
the craziest thing about that $4 million figure, is that the gambling site believes that they will make that money back, PLUS extra profits. you can't tell me that it's not harmful to viewers
The house ALWAY wins.
It’s hard to tell how many individual viewer’s xQc gets over a stream but lets just say that 10% of his viewers at any one time (~10000) spend $400 in a month then they have already broke even.
underrated comment. Your thought proofs the effect.
4M was for Aiden Ross xQc would've 100% demanded more than that ,that's the scary part. That much money for just one month than most people make in their entire lives that's crazy.
When I was 18 and allowed to gamble (in germany it's at 18 years, I think America is 21?) I immediately fell into the trap.
Got a job and immediately gambled all my money away. At the start it wasn't that bad for me, but it only got worse. Me and 2 other friends were really sucked in to it together. I was down bad and owed money to my bank. I was lucky that my dad paid the debt for me and I slowly paid him back over time, but after that scare of having big negative numbers pop up on my bank account I completely cut out gambling.
I've tried once or twice to go back to see if I can control myself and I set myself a limit on how much I'd put in to the machine but I haven't been gambling for years now.
It's scary how much you actually lose control and minimize your own brain telling you that you should stop. "50€ more won't hurt.... right...?"
Foreshadowing…
I like that you say what's right even if it might upset your friends. That's hard to do.
Streamers can put the warnings out there not to start gambling but by accepting the $4m a month they know the only reason the gambling company is giving them that huge amount is because they will make it back from the streamers viewers.
I dont know how a streamer can do a sponsored gambling stream in good morals
not defending him but if anyone is offer 4m a month to play slots on stream, 99% of people will take it. the only people who wouldnt are those who are offer 5m to not do it. people literally kill for alot less.
@@demoth XQC already makes millions a month. It’s not like you or me getting offered that
I agree with this take but didn't Ludwig literally host a huge Poker gambling stream a few weeks ago? Then on two separate videos + his podcast he spoke about how a guy he met in Vegas was making him a bunch of money he lost from gambling? I guess that doesn't really nullify the point that the video is making though but I don't know if Ludwig can say that he hasn't "promoted" it as much as XQC has.
I think this whole drama of streaming gambling on twitch is always emphasized as a problem way too much. At some point in everyones life they will be introduced to gambling and will either ignore it or gamble and lose. It is what it is, the fact that its on twitch wont stop anyone who will become an addict from being an addict
@@FunkehMelon Yes i was thinking that too. He mentioned the poker slightly but didn't explain why that he was okay with doing it. But to quote Lud everyone draws the line just below them self at what they deem acceptable
At 5:15 when he says "we shouldn't rely on humans we should rely on the platforms" ignores a fundamental issue. The platforms are run by humans trying to make money as well.
They are just as tempted to retain high viewership as the individual streamers are tempted to take big deals.
Honestly platforms have gone too long avoiding the responsibility for the content they host.
As the business it is their responsibility to ensure that the content and people they are paying out aren't doing being excessively immoral (that that this is) or dangerous (again not that this is). Freedom to test the boundaries is fine, twitching not adequately setting them is not
His point is a platform has a bunch of people running it that are not going to really profit much from a person streaming them gambling vs a single person who streams it getting millions to do it. The platform job is to moderate the streamers if the streamers won't moderate themselves.
I think the point is that they should be the ones u should hold accountable.
sure, but he really meant that as streamers, they are meant to be "human" . personable.
The platform is a business, they should care about their employees and their customers enough to regulate harmful content
@@bobhanson1037 I don’t think that was his point at all lol
I remember when similar stuff like this was going on with CSGO gambling streamers. Turns out that the odds were often somewhat tweaked for streamers as well, which I do think is true in some cases here as well, even if the streamers themselves are not aware of it. Gambling sites in general are pretty much always shady, and its clear that these streams create an insane amount of new gamblers, since online casinos are willing to pay 4m a month to promote their sites on twitch.
I believe there's a certain "luck" factor to accounts who do not withdrawl. However when a streamer does withdrawl you can be assured to have cold streaks all over the place which nobody wants to see obviously.
I genuinely congratulate the way you structure your videos with the tabes of websites you keep as a checklist. It is really organized and i have started doing them myself
A few years ago, I had at least 3 classmates who got casino apps where they could play “for free”. One of those three even had his own accounts on real gambling sites under his father's name (I don't even know if his father knew anything about it). They were all around 14 to 16 years old.
Everyone of my 3 classmates started with it, because of a very large streamer who was gambling on his stream. This streamer also always said that you shouldn't start with it and that he wasn't a role model.
Saying "I'm not a role model" doesn't make it true. Because being a role model isn't defined by what you choose to be but by the fact that, as a popular and well-liked figure, people (especially young and impressionable people) WILL look up to you, listen to what you say, want to be like you and do the things you do. *Old man voice* back in my day, all the schoolkids wanted to be actors, singers and sports stars, and now all the young kids want to be streamers and influencers.
XQC is a role model whether he wants to be or not, because he's one of the biggest streamers in the world. All he can do is accept that, or deny it, but that'#s just a lazy way of ducking his responsibility for his actions.
Yes, people fail to realize how much of an addiction gambling is. My father has been a gambling addict my whole life so I know the destruction this disease can cause, and to have it marketed on Twitch constantly is irresponsible. For me, it's the same as if the streamer was doing hard drugs on stream. Honestly, it makes me lose respect for the streamers in question, as I don't expect Twitch to give a fuck, but I expect the streamers to have some human decency.
Ludwig did poker Tournaments on stream tho no?
I personally feel like twitch allowing it is the problem. Not the actual streamers. XQC and train literally say “DONT GAMBLE, YOU WILL LOSE” that’s literally the complete opposite of promoting it. I’ve seen the struggles of gambling addiction first hand but I still feel like if you wanna do it then that is your choice. Just like smoking or drinking, it’s not good but it’s still your choice to do it or not. They allow drinking on twitch so I can see why they allow gamba but in my opinion they shouldn’t allow streamers to do either while being live on stream. But as long as twitch allows it then I can’t blame the streamers for doing it, especially since they literally say “DONT GAMBA” to there audience.
Telling people to not gamble because you will lose will not mean anything if they are also watching the streamers getting excited or having fun with the gambling at the same time
@@ConnoisseurPNM the streamer can’t be responsible for millions of peoples actions. Which is why I think the platform itself should be the ones to ban drinking, gambling, and stuff like that. You can’t rely on every single streamer to be responsible for every single audience member.
I'm just saying that whatever theyre doing theyre not helping
So dont act like they are, theyre just doing their thing
@@ConnoisseurPNM well obviously they don’t see it as a problem and you can’t force personal views upon someone. So as long as twitch allows it then they’re not really doing anything wrong.
It may not go against the twitch guidelines but I'd say what they're doing is still ethically wrong just for the fact that they are in a way part of the problem not the problem itself tho
Even though streamers/CZcamsrs shouldn’t really be seen as rolemodels by anyone, they still have to try and be one. Be sensible, be nice to other people, maybe encourage people to work out/be healthy, but don’t promote gambling and other addictive traps.... jesus. (Especially if your audience is young.) Unacceptable.
It gets worse when you consider that X and other streamers fully know why they are being sponsored. Their audience generates money be loosing it, essentially paying for the sponsorship with their own money. +the risk of getting addicted. Streamers know this/the business model behind those sites and still do it...
They shouldn't, but they absolutely will be. Especially to younger kids, teenagers, etc. They're called influencers for a reason. Anything anyone says against that is just a cop out excuse. They influence people, and that's something they're responsible for.
@@ReasonMakes that falls onto parents, not the random people making content on the internet. If you are gambling because XQC does it, I’m guessing you also eat your own toenails with a side of McDonald’s and slam farts right? People need to learn from their parents and role models in real life. Not some twitch streamer
It's not even an issue of being a role model, people need to understand that these kind of casino style games they are promoting are essentially scams and shouldn't even be legal to promote. It's kinda funny how this kind of content flies under the radar so to speak when everybody knows that every single casino style game is made to systematically be unfavorable for the player and profitable for the casino. It's not poker or even betting on teams where you at least can have favorable odds, slots and other casino games are specifically made to always have losing odds. I think the online community didn't quite catch up to this fact. And didn't even mention the fact that his audience is primarily the most vulnerable population group for this bs.
@@HighHatOG eating your toenails and farting aren’t highly addicting, life altering “activities”
And sure, for the smart alek Andy’s that will come after me, McDonald’s CAN be addicting, but I’m guessing it takes a bit more work to get addicted to McDonald’s than gambling.
My dad left when I was 8 because of his gambling debts. It’s not an issue of being parasocial, gambling just ruins way too many lives to excuse it being streamed on twitch. I hope xQc can see that.
He doesnt care and thats why he is losing fans. Its literally the same thing, your dad chose his addiction over you, xqc is doing the same.
Keep the people around you believe you deserve, stop supporting him.
Honestly gambling is one of the worst vices to have, so addictive it completely ruins lives
thx for covering this
Twitch's current policy is really half-assed. They know linking to gambling sites is harmful, but they are okay with showing the website and prompting you to type in the name into Google and finding the url yourself.
Coupled with the fact that all the big streamers are getting their stake comped it gives the false image of only having an upside when streamers occasionally win big, without the reality that most of the time you will lose all your money.
Every slots streamer (except Train from what i've seen) also dances around the no codes/bonuses policy by having their own website or discord that's filled with those same offers Twitch wanted to get rid of. Just check DeuceAce, the slot streamer with most viewers at time of writing. His "website" is a short blurb, a few news articles of winning big then like 4 pages of casino bonus offers and that's it. It's messed up.
They just get you in their discord then promote the shit out of it. Only way to enter a giveaway is to signup with the casino and tag the affilaite/streamer.... who then gets 40% of your loses
I do think you're going too easy on them. We can't expect streamers to be a beacon of morality but when scummy behavior becomes borderline systemic and the streamers are able to brush it off we *can* expect them to look in the mirror. A platform ban on sponsored streams would be something, but it doesn't actually address the problem. As you said, knowing that reality of the situation doesn't matter. People still fall into the trap in hopes of winning, and seeing these millionaires gamble millions is attractive regardless. X admitted to gambling off-stream and being addicted. Maybe the sponsor got him back online with it, but that doesn't mean he can't decide to go online without the sponsor. His addiction becomes a business either way. It is more morally bankrupt to do it sponsored, of course, and I wouldn't put the onus on the streamer so much if they weren't sponsored. But it is harmful to the viewer either way.
I'm not here to tell people what to do. They're free to choose what they support and I'm not going on a personal vendetta for it. But I'm also not going to support them if they do something which seems to knowingly harm people with an unrealistic image of addiction. Not that I've ever been a fan of anybody listed here to begin with. X and company *should* look in the mirror and be honest about this. Twitch should also ban it altogether, if we feel it's a substantial issue.
For the record, I don't find this issue in Poker. Slots are designed to keep you hooked while draining your money. Poker is part luck, part skill, and it pits players against each other on equal terms without being explicitly designed to make them lose at the benefit of the house. Slots are designed to be an addiction machine. Poker is a fun game that we can trust adults to be responsible with.
I agree to most of what you're saying, except that last sentence, that's some pure bullshit lmao
100%, this is scummy behaviour but I think the fact that it is a systemic issue means "expecting them to look in the mirror" is absolutely nothing near close enough. We should be disappointed in streamers who do this, but inevitably the incentive of maybe $4mil is far far too high to be counteracted by any behaviour of the audience -- even if it was, the incentive is so high that there will always be new people doing sponsored gambling streams.
A structural issue requires a structural solution, and I think a sponsored gambling ban is a soft but effective way to reduce the impact of gambling addiction on an audience. I would prefer a complete ban but I don't think that's realistic, and sponsored gambling should at least remove the external incentive; plus like Ludwig was saying, if they don't have that massive injection of sponsored cash it's less sustainable of a stream concept.
@@gamerzss the sentence about poker? not all adults are responsible with it but it isn't a rigged system like slots.
@@ninuvids yeah, but I also think thats why its easier to get hooked, like I know if I leave the table right now I can afford a cheeseburger, but if I perform well for just one game I can get an entire combo meal, but instead I end up not eating that day
@@gamerzss sure it can be addicting, but so can anything, right? Alcohol, social media, sex… it’s about being responsible. I differentiate slots because they’re designed to prey on you. Poker is a genuine game that can be played with or without money, and you can actually get good at it. You can play it with your buds. Slots is just a way to lose money over time. I don’t think you can put them on the same level, but if you draw the line below poker then I can respect that. I personally disagree, but I respect the opinion
Man this hit me so hard. Not the part about twitch but just your story and your piece about addicts. I’ve lost it all, known how stupid it was and still went back on my next paycheck. It’s insane how addictive it is. I’m 1 week clean of gambling and I still watch streams to keep myself realistic about things. Seeing these guys lose 1mil balances and even more some how makes me want to gamble less. ❤️ you big homie
Why is the pity focused on the streamers here? They are not the victims in this situation? They don't have much at stake. Often enough they don't invest their own money and even if they do they have enough safety. Why wasn't there more talk about how the platforming and semi-glorification of gambling on stream will affect some vulnerable percentage of the audience to ruin at least some of their lifes?
I get that the main point of the video is how we should go about this issue and that the burden should not be on the streamer and I agree.
But I take issue with the degree of how the streamers themselves were victimised here without shining much light on the broader gambling demographic.
it kinda feels like "I'm not your moral compass" is the line people use when they don't want the responsibilities that are tied to having influence
Bingo
I can understand why they feel that way though. Not all of them became popular to have influence over others. Streaming Overwatch for years and then having the standard of perfect placed upon them later on is a lot. They are normal people in a relatively degenerate job of streaming. They arent teachers or cops, they stream games from their bedroom.
That said, it does not permit them to do scummy shit and then say, hey, dont be like me because they should realize that whether they like it not, there is responsibility in their visibility and access to a wide audience.
@@ElyskeTheDonut Big agree. I find it’s people in places of more visibility and popularity who tend to sorta wanna turn away from the innate influence their job has? If that makes sense? Either way, you worded it well!!
I gotta disagree tbh.
They provide entertainment online, that’s it.
If you find yourself influenced by entertainers you are an absolute moron and if anything negative comes to you I’m not saying you don’t deserve it.
*That sounds hostile lmao.
“you” was reffering to people in general, not actually you.
@@katon.9893 I dunno, I feel like humans are moldable and our brains are intaking things we don’t even always consciously recognize. I feel like it’s an unfair generalization to say everyone is an idiot for being influenced. I’ve definitely bought clothes before simply because I saw it on someone I admired in the entertainment industry, so 🤷🏻♀️ fair is fair, I’m an absolute moron too.
Train needs to realize that there is a lot of people out there that dont care about breaking even or going positive, they just want to feel the excitement that comes with winning. Like you cant get super pumped up, excited and full of joy and then say "dont do this guys" because they see how excited and happy you got and they want to feel that too. And you know whats the one way they now know how to fell happy and excited? Doing the exact thing youre doing
Train literally gambles for that exact reason of feeling excitement. He's down millions, and fully believes that gambling will always make you go down money, and you will never go positive.
@@adriansayshi4227 Yeah he's very aware that he's always going to lose money in the long run. The issue is stake is paying him such a huge amount of money that it doesn't really matter. He always talks about how he's down 10s of millions but never mentions that stake is likely paying him more than enough to make up for it.
@@adriansayshi4227 You know train doesn’t gamble real money right
@@gierno4828 Then is the money he gives away real? That's the dumbest shit I've heard. Even Ludwig said Train gambles with real money. what are you on about
@@adriansayshi4227 Ludwig also presents half the argument
I think what he means by fake money is that they are reimbursed by the company for the amount they spend as stated by coffee zila.(over and above the 4M)
But Ludwig in order to support his argument gave some random clip with some emotional weight.
Idk he should have explained or given a proper argument instead of some random clip
I had a friend who got into a gambling problem, so bad that he started to steal money from his company, when he was caught and fired, not even a week afterwards he committed suicide. It’s a big problem….
I don’t have a problem with gambling in general and agree streamers should not have to be a moral compass. That said, gambling gets boring to watch after 10-15 minutes of the same exact thing. More so, it’s UNCOMFORTABLE to watch when you know that person has a problem.
Good luck with your addiction.
BASED
When it's Poker theres a element of gamesmanship and entertainment. These endless slot machines are so fucking boring
@@TheMortalKomic yeah but games like Poker has an element of skill and experience involved and anyone can appreciate that. Slot machines are just dumb.
@@Hemestal the problem is not involvement of skill but promoting an unsafe activity to a young audience. Be a gacha, poker, gambling all are the same.
They are inciting people into bankruptcy without even holding themselves responsible for anything.
smoking on stream, being completely drunk on stream, promoting violence, doing drugs on stream are morally incorrect and people are allowed to say it's wrong just because it's law.
So what's so better about promoting this life destroying activity to a young audience. It's just the same. Costs are the only different things here.
I turned 100 to 3k, lost it all and lost a few more hundred to get it back and that money could have gone a long ways for me. I got off easy compared to most, but that failure is stuck on my mind. Even then I get the urge to put more in knowing fully that it would lead to even more anguish. That's the most fucked up thing with gambling and other major addictions, you can know/imagine how destructive it can be for you and your relationships but you'll still badly wanna do it. You can notice all the lives it's destroyed, and still wanna do it. Gambling streams do scratch the itch for many people, but seeing how much money these sites are willing to splurge on these streamers you can't help but know that some major fucked up shit is going on.
Having worked in a gas station for years, I've developped an extreme distaste for gambling. Most of what I see are normie boomers buy scratch or Powerball, but it's still insane how addicted people become to that. I've had customers spend $300+ on scratch in a single day, just to be in the next day complaining they can't make their car payments. These people are desperate too, they've convinced themselves that wasting thousands of dollars each month is their own chance at ever retiring instead of just saving all that money instead. They tell themselves "you can't take it with you when you die, so may as well spend it" as if they're a terminal cancer patient with a prognosis of half a week left, and not someone with multiple decades of life to live. And the worst part is how normalized child gambling is for boomers. Lud says that kids probably aren't gonna be able to get their hands on the money to be able to ruin their lives, but I bet you can think of multiple times that you've either seen or received a scratch ticket as a gift for a young child; typically stocking stuffers for Christmas or whatever. It's not hard for kids to convince either their parents or grandparents to buy them a scratch ticket, cuz most of those older generations see nothing wrong with "letting a kid have some fun with it", as if it's not the equivalent of giving the kid half a line of coke.
In short, gambling streams should all be DDOS'd, and I wish every gambling streamer a very merry lose all your money and sell your equipment to survive so you can't stream again and infect the minds of 12 y/o's.
Great video. With regards to the "think of the kids" part however I think rather than the problem being about how much money they can get their hands on to lose right now, but the impact it's going to have on them later in life. If they start gambling now even with smaller amounts of money it could develop into a much bigger addiction when they're older. Kids seeing their favourite streamers partake in online gambling is a gateway for them into that world.
I fear what happened to me is going to happen to make of the young impressionable viewers that watch these gambling streams. When I was 14 years old I got CSGO. Within a month I had opened up my first case and became obsessed with skins. Shortly after I saw these big youtubers promoting these gambling sites where I could not only win better skins, but also win money. I didn't have a job at the time so my only way of buying skins was through birthday money or other holiday gifts. I would pour any money I had into skins and after that week trade ban was up I immediately put them on gambling sites. When I would win it would be no bigger than $10-$20, mostly $5 and below. Looking back now that's not much but as a 14 year old, I thought I was on top of the world. Each win gave me the feeling as if I had just accomplished something great. I was so happy with winning a $10 coin flip that the other $40 I lost didn't even matter. I ran out of money very soon and had no way to buy more skins. I was looking for any way to scratch that itch, any way to feel what I felt when id get a win. My parents gave me $20 at the beginning of the week for school lunch and that quickly became my source of income. I went on for 2 years not eating lunch and spending that $20 on steam cards to buy CSGO skins. 6 years later I have over $7400 spent on CSGO skins and not a single dollar in profit to show for it. Every week I go down to the gas station and will throw $40 bucks on some scratch off's, still trying to chase that itch I developed when I was 14.
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck thats bread
Its a dangerous rabbit hole, conventional legislation has put barriers for entry into traditional gambling establishments. these rules and regulations are not sufficient however given the new property cryptocurrencies.
I remember back in the day as a wee lad i played Csgo lounge match gambling service, to this day i bet on the ufc every saturday.
I think most people just don't understand addiction. Doing a gambling stream is no different that promoting cigarettes, coke, or any other thing that can easily ruin someone's life.
I think it might be worse. Gambling irl slots, people lose their families house.
@@sadmermaid there's only so much you can shove up your nose, drink or smoke... gambling you could do for 10 hours straight then go to work for 8 hours and nobody would know. It's a horrific addiction. And these streamers punt signup codes to profit off them. Ok not the top ones who think they are different because the monthly pay out ways what they would earn on a signup link.
@@PUNKslots agreed
gambling is arguably worse because its not as looked down upon and is seen as a more "fun" throw in a few hundred dollars with some frIends type thing. its also kind of a silent addiction, no one would know if u gambled everything away because theres no visual sign of it like alcohol or drugs. my dad was a terrible gambler, alcoholic, and drug addict and it comepletely destroyed our family, we got evicted because he gambled our mortgage and savings away, the entire time we didnt really know until my mom realized money was missing, but at the same time u would never think that someone close to u could fall victim or do this to u, its a terrible trap that needs a lot of restraint and self control if u want to do it
@@purpleguy3924 I'm so sorry to hear that man, hope you and your family are doing better. I think it truly is a vicious addiction, and the impact seems to be extra tough on the families as what you said, its more silent and easier to hide, and I can't imagine losing your home because of it, jfc. Where I live has one of the worlds highest rates of pokies/slot machines in the world, and sports is huge here and online sports betting is inescapable. I'm lucky enough to have not known anyone who personally has suffered too bad from it, but the stats and public health PSAs are grim. At the pub on pension day seeing old people sit there for hours is soo bleak. Thank you for sharing.
Appreciate the video Mr. Ludwig o7! I would say my Pokémon cards addiction is sort of similar where we all 'believe' we could win that 'one' chase card and we just keep dumping loads and loads of money (maybe not as much as gambling) but the reason why we 'gamble' is because we enjoy the Dopamine rush at that moment, and we get to release stress when spending money on them. Still trying to get rid of my own 'gambling' addiction and I hope others can too!
the 10 second DO NOT GAMBLE video in a gambling stream is literally " are u above 18" on a porn site.
It does genuinely make me very sad that a lot of people blame gambling addicts for their addiction and possible losses/debt. You can have a genetic predisposition to developing an addiction, not to mention that gambling companies and gacha games LITERALLY capitalize on variable ratio intermittent reinforcement! It is scientifically the most effective way to promote a continued behavior. I can say with almost absolute certainty that no one desires an addiction. Some (which is still a lot) fall victim to predatory practices.
Lud, I really appreciate you bringing this topic to a greater scope. I hope you and anyone in your life who seeks help about gambling addiction gets it. It is admirable that you're transparent about this topic considering you have employees. Please continue to keep them in mind.
Platforms have a responsibility to discourage gambling! Banning sponsored gambling is such a fantastic step forward that I hope they make. People can't sub on twitch if they don't have any money lol so it's in their best interest! Offshore crypto casinos have no obligation to uphold self-bans like regulated casinos do so many gambling addicts can re-enter a triggering space.
" Offshore crypto casinos have no obligation to uphold self-bans like regulated casinos"
Stuff like that makes this much worse. If the sites were regulated, had a good self-ban system and a max loss amount like $2000 a month instead infinite. There would be much fewer people that gambled away their life savings.
I'm sorry but you should be focusing on the victims who end up falling for this promotions by their favourite streamers and ruin their lives, instead of the sponsored gambling addicts who promote it on stream and never lose anything because the sponsors pays them millions per month.
@@LeonardoTheMomo None of those streamers have any financial loss or risk. When a streamer is saying "Im doing a 5 million bonus hunt" do you really believe they are staking their own 5 million or is the 5 million paid by the casino?
You have to look a bit deeper. You dont have to have a addictive personality to become a gambling addict. The games are designed in such a matter it will get you hooked in weeks.
Did Ludwig not upload a video glorifying his gambling in Vegas recently? How exactly is that different?
I’m trying to figure out aswell?
it is not different, they see xqc streaming gamba too 100k people again and they can't deal with it again, i don't get it
Wow, I never thought I would hear a discussion on individual vs systemic responsibility on a Ludwig video about gambling, but I'm so happy this happened. This is a really interesting discussion about how much individual responsibility a person has for their actions. How much of someone is just a product of their circumstances, and how much is their "own character"? Further, should the responsibility of rehabilitation be on them? If we recognise that circumstances can affect someone's choices, then shouldn't part of the responsibility of the consequences of those choices be on the systems that enabled them?
My point being, a throwaway comment on this video about human morality is very interesting, and is a great, lengthy and important discussion for the future of our society. It bleeds into topics such as, "Should people be punished for their crimes?". I do hope you can keep talking about topics such as these, as I think these are important for us to discuss and understand, so we can better shape our social and ethical structure.
If someone wants further discussion about this, there's a great CZcamsr Big Joel, who discusses these topics very well. Although it is politically entrenched, I do think the discussions in the videos are extremely interesting and insightful, even if you disagree with the overall message.
This is also a large discussion on policy making in general. Recycling, managing waste, has become an issue largely passed on to consumers. "Don't buy brands who have wasteful packaging". Some people can't afford the luxury of that choice. What we need is systemic change. Corporations pollute more than any human could. But they also have a lot of "lobbying power" (read bribes) so no effective policies are being pushed, and instead we, as the people, are being told to make those changes happen ourselves.
I started watching the gambling streams toward the end of 2021. I have an addictive personality. I know how low-odds it is. Within a few weeks I had convinced myself it was a good idea to start playing online poker.
Only lost $100, but I can see how these streams are dangerous especially with how normalized it's become on the platform. Kids and young adults predisposed to addiction issues are slowly being teased down a very treacherous path.
To add to this, not just Twitch, but CZcams too, if they get banned from the platform, they would just move to the next biggest one
I know that expecting CZcams to react to such (lets be honest) small scale news for them is highly unlikely, but both platforms need to do this
When you upload content (and when you go live I believe on CZcams) you have the say if the video contains a sponsorship and if the video is for kids or not. So I think CZcams has a much better system to track this kind of stuff than twitch does.
@@JUICEfromtheBOX The sponsorship thing is borderline optional and "Made for kids" Applies to 13 and under, making it pretty useless
Honestly one of the best mogul mail. Ludwig has a great take on gambling.
5:22 “We shouldn’t rely on humans to have the morality we’re looking for.” He says that as if twitch is solely run by models and algorithms with no human leadership in decision making. I kinda get where he’s coming from, but Twitch’s choice to ban or allow gambling streams doesn’t determine whether gambling is healthy or not. We know it’s dangerous through our own experience and the data. If twitch hypothetically stated that they’re ok with gambling on their platform, then the viewers are just supposed to accept that as the moral standard? That wouldn’t happen. Twitch should be restricting certain types of content on their platform in a way which they see fit, but if a streamer chooses to promote something that it harmful to his viewers he has full agency in accepting that sponsor $.
The craziest part about this as well is that people are WILLINGLY throwing their money at the streamers to fuel the pot. It's mind blowing to me that people are willing to chuck their money at someone who is completely upfront that they'll be wasting it on gambling actions, when we could be donating it to little streamers putting in hard effort to create content to achieve livable wages doing what they love, or people around the world who could be using it to build their business or changing their ways of life. The world, where people living paycheck to paycheck are comfortable donating their hard earned money to someone like Kylie Jenner to help her become a "self-made" billionaire while causing themselves to struggle is just an ass backwards nightmare of a socially distorted populace.
I definitely feel bad for x fans rn seeing someone who is addicted feeding into their addiction its hurtful b/c in some aspects u care about these personalities and not in a parasocial way either. Gambling is something I feel is just easy to get addicted to especially online gambling. I think its important to speak up about this to try and limit the harm gambling can cause to the public and streamers. Sure the streamers might be better off since they get sponsored and thats also a problem. But the streams definitely encourage young adults who watch to want to make it big like the streamer and probably waste their savings or get addicted. Its just better for the general public to limit that content overall
It's scarry to think that 4mio per month is an investment those companies get their money back on. And obviously they do or they wouldn't pay that much.
Systems will always make you think the problem is one person to avoid facing changes
Gambling is one of the top ways adults destroy their lives.
I agree, I feel like the issue going forward is both Twitch and CZcams need to do this because now Twitch has the whiff of a competing platform now and CZcams definitely doesn't mind hosting the most rancid content imaginable as long as it's not sexual or violates copyright.
CZcams hosting rancid content? I feel like twitch is more mature while CZcams has more younger people. What do you think?
I’m more of a Mogul Mail man myself
“Oh dude they’re racist here? I thought it was a costume party” 🤣
I have to imagine that, on top of the return these companies are getting from fans, they have the stats to know that a lot of what they're paying out to these streamers is coming right back to them. It goes a long way to explaining the huge, recurring, payments. I have trouble imagining that the return on their advertising would be large enough without getting a bunch of that advertising spend back.
I like that Lud addressed this problem, but I don't fully agree with the way he kinda absolved all streamers of responsibility and just put it on twitch.
Should Twitch definitely be preventing sponsored gambling on their platform? Yes. But that doesn't absolve streamers from any sort of responsibility. I feel like this is another one of those things where people blame everyone but themself.
Streamers blame Twitch for allowing this type of content in the first place or viewers. In their eyes, their job as a streamer is just to entertain people. Twitch might blame streamers or even the government for allowing online gambling in the first place. In the eyes of Twitch execs, their job as a company is just to make money for their owners and pay their employees.
I think that both parties do hold some responsibility for this problem. Twitch knows damn well that banning gamba streams would mean a slight loss in revenue as well as an increase in employees needed to monitor the type of content being streamed. To a company that's already in the red, they obviously don't want to do that.
Gamba streamers also know damn well that their streaming will directly cause some of their viewers to bet (that's why those gamba sites would sponsor them in the first place). When I hear these streamers say that viewers just shouldn't watch their streams, it baffles me. These streamers that suffer from gambling addiction know damn well that's not how addiction works.
Look, Twitch definitely needs to monitor their platform better, and I would even say that they hold the lion's share of the responsibility, but I don't think that means that streamers shouldn't be held accountable. These streamers are knowingly getting rich off the act of dragging some of their viewers back into addiction, whether they want to admit it or not.
Sorry for the long-ass essay
It isnt the responsibility of the streamer to make sure viewers arent stupid
@@josephhetzenauer1890 Your right, it isnt the streamers responsiblity to actually give a fuck about the same people who gives them money out of support for their favorite streamer, to only see said streamer gamble it away.
Be sure to use MLA format with cited sources btw.
@@timeless1882 No just the same as with any entertainer it isn't their responsibility. People can make their own choices. As well as if they don't want to contribute anymore they can stop. They can also not complain.
@@adriansayshi4227 apa
Gambling has long been considered a problem. Allowing gambling on stream is just such wild to me.
One of my peers at school was wealthy, like mega wealthy, mega mega wealthy. His grandfather was in the top50 for the richlist, and his father in the top200.
In year 9 (14yrs old for non UK peeps) his father would take him to casinos and log him into online gambling website giving him 2grand a month to spend in a separate bank account (although he was rich he wasn't super spoilt so 2k was still a significant sum for him at the time). Over the year he saw that 2k reduced to nothing each month, until eventually he stopped gambling it all together and kept it. To this day I don't think he gambles. His parents did a few things like this, sure they were expensive lessons, but a drop in the ocean for them, and provided invaluable learnings. In my opinion they did an excellent job at raising their three kids into nice and respectful young adults (especially in comparison to a few other wealthy kids at the school!)
This reminds me of a Mr. Jeremy 985 that owed a debt of 2.5 billion dollars to his viewers, spent millions of dollars on limes as his alternate ego Mr. Green, and still finds ways to gamble in his streams. An absolute PSYCHO that REFUSES to learn.
as a person who avoided ever gambling for these exact reasons I can say right now that gambling content / streaming is boring. I find ZERO entertainment from watching a person hit a slot machine for 38 hours. Poker is fun cause of the socialization and the fact that you are playing against other humans in what is an element of competition but these streams provide absolutely no entertainment for anyone who doesn't have the urge to gamble themselves. with this perspective i think it's fair to say that the only audience of these streams are people who want to gamble, meaning this content is ONLY preying on these viewers and effectively forcing them to gamble unhealthily themselves. the streamers are caught by their addiction and the deal, and the viewers are caught by the former. it's such an inescapable trap for both creators and viewers made by the casino that the only possible fix is twitch banning these streams in their entirety.
Actually quite a smart point, I'm curious how many people legit enjoy watching a slots stream
like you said, the responsibility is on these companies that sponsor streamers. there's a profit incentive to pay somebody $4m a month because they know if even a percentage of those viewers sign up for their company, they'll make their money back. these high margins also allow the companies to lobby against gambling regulation (on streaming & government levels) because it directly threatens their survival as a company, so i'm afraid the problem is going to persist until either twitch (lol), streamers (lmao), or the government (lmfao) have the willpower to stop accepting money from these companies that directly harm its consumers
I personally don’t believe anything is going to come of it. Maybe, if something happens that costs the people in charge a good amount of money, we’d see something like a disclaimer added to certain streams. Remember, we’re all the little guy. Nothing any nameless commenter online does is going to tug at an executive’s heartstrings enough to cost their company millions of dollars in revenue. The best we can hope for is that enough people eventually find these streams boring, and drop the viewer count by a considerable amount.
thanks for sharing your struggle you're a real one
I could see a problem with catching sponsored deals for gambling is like... How to audit that. That'd be a process that takes effort, which CZcams and Twitch are allergic to effort.
Maybe just the threat of 'no sponsored gambling' would have them hide it atleast.
But maybe they're gonna have to set an actual dollar amount limit instead since that can be tracked. Like 'cant gamble more than a million dollars per month' or something.
Like using that Poker tournament ya did as an example, Alan losing a million dollars is absurd. Any of these sponsored deals can be easily sniffed out if they are down -3 million after a day.
This is an interesting conversation to be had; gambling addiction is definitely affecting kids too, but like you said it's not really based off big streamers. This isn't related to streaming but Genshin Impact is "the thing" right now and plenty of teens are getting gambling/gacha addictions from it because it's a new thing to be popularized in the west.
Genuinely I think the next few generations are kind of screwed, old people in Congress won't do anything about it bc it doesn't affect them, and platforms aren't going to do anything about it because it makes them money. It will probably take until our generation is making the rules for anything to be done about gambling on any platform or level.
I tried to play Genshin Impact before but got bored in the first couple of minutes, and now that i learn that’s it’s basically a gacha machine game, i’m glad i didn’t get into it.
"haven't talked about this much" I've watched the yard you've talked about it PLENTY
Gambling is so life ruining it’s insane. My mom was an addict and stole my brothers and I’s savings bonds, made us sign them when we were young and didn’t know better. Pawned our stuff, embezzled. my brother and I were signed up for financial trauma for the rest of our lives. It also got so bad that my mom ran away when I was 12 to try and unalive herself because of how deep in financial and legal trouble she got into.
I hope he realizes and gets help and quits shaming fans who don’t want to watch him anymore. It’s hard for anyone to see anyone they look up to self destruct. Also I remember years ago a boss of mine had a younger brother only 19 years old in debt over micro transactions in gaming which I think is also severely immoral
near the end, even thinking youll make profit is room for disaster
I've always thought sponsored gambling, and even to an extent "entertainment gambling" like gacha games, is completely bogus and is fake gambling. Being paid 4 million to gamble away 1 million is complete nonsense and as a way to shill a product it's a borderline scam. XQC has some real self reflecting to do if he thinks the problem is people treating him as a role-model. He's completely missing what an "influencer" is.
I think the problem is not for adults that watch the gambling streams, its for the kids and teens. It desensitizes the young audience that has not yet reached the age of legal gambling. It shows them a picture of someone spending an absurd amount of money with (often) rigged stakes. What they see is funny and not at all reflects the harsh reality of what gambling is or can lead to for "normal people" - thus making it seem way more harmless than it actually is.
Just ask the simple questions of how they can sponsor multiple big streamers and pay them MILLIONS A MONTH. How much value do they get from this sponsorship if the investment is so high?
There must be so many people losing and falling deeper into the black hole that is gambling addiction, while the streamers show only a funny site to it all.
(I know they lose from time to time, but in no way are they close to having existential dread because of it, like the average viewer would. Look at the clip lud showed from xqc, casually saying he lost over 1 Million in a month. That is more money than a lot of people on this earth will make in a life.)
i think its bad cause it in a way targets the 18-21 year olds who are young and dont have the money to gamble
Well they dont actually pay that mcuh because the streamers ofc as it goes lose a shit ton of money during the gambling streams so the company doesnt lose as much as it seems with sponsoring them
I love how they casually just throw the word "million" around so much lol
i disagree that streamers shouldn't be held to a moral standard- I think every single person should be held to a high moral standard, role model or not. However, I do believe addiction is a severe illness and deserves compassion and help. I'm not surprised xqc gave into the temptation of a gambling sponsorship as a gambling addict. That's where I DO agree that is immoral for both the gambling companies and twitch to allow those sponsorships.
I mean sure xqc is an addict. But like, his actions here can’t just be attributed to addictive impulses. Like, the choice to do these streams and double down on them is a pretty fucking conscious decision. So sure, compassion and all that. But still, dude is also actively being immoral here.
Also don’t know why it seems like all the commenters here are specifically so against “telling people what to do”. Shitty actions can (and should be imo) be called out ON TOP of not being supported.
@@ZaqZiemba Oh, absolutely! I don't think xqc should be excused for his actions by any means, just that he does deserve compassion (like Lud is giving him). I just meant it in the context of the morality question.
I think you're spot on
Something that could be hard for Twitch to moderate (unless they ban it all) is the differentiation between gacha and real money gambling. They're both problematic, but someone at Twitch would need to make decisions about it.
The line confuses me, gambling is somehow worse then watching full copyrighted materials