This TINY thing SOLVES Red Bull from PORPOISING
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- čas přidán 5. 05. 2022
- #f12022 #redbullracing #f1
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There has been loads of talk about the things that #RedBull have been doing to solve porpoising. After looking at photos of different teams' floors, it looks like RedBull found another genius addition to their car that is going to help solve the problem. If you told me you had guessed that RedBull would use ice skates to help solve the bouncing, then I would call you a liar. But that is exactly what they have done, so let me show you how.
📺 Watch the entire video for more information!
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The animation is immense, better then even what sky offers
Chronogp channel
Doesn't seem like the animations match up with the narration at all so drawings and animations must be appropriated from another source. Also makes me think this channel has no idea what's it's talking about.
I doubt its as simple as him having the answer already, but there's no question Newey will go down in history as one of the best engineers to ever work in motorsports. Even if not his own solutions, he is outstanding at managing others that can provide them and piece it all together!
He stolen the animations from ChronoGP and deriver61 channels
No surprise. Adrian Newey is the GOAT of aerodynamicists in F1. It was obvious Red Bull were going to ace these new Ground effect rules.
Also... Adrian Newey was working on pretty matured Ground Effect ideas when he came into F1
It wasn't obvious but yes it was likely. There's many talented engineers at other teams
How have they managed? Adrian Newey. This is his second stint with ground effect. So he already had the solution whilst some of the other teams are starting from scratch.
Massive cheat code
Newey is semi retired, it has nothing to do with him. Money is the reason. Lots of fucking money.
@@Malc180s He's still the chief technical officer at Red Bull and is still heavily involved in the development of the car. Not quite as much as he was during the early 2010's when they were dominant but he's hardly retired or semi-retired. When it comes down to it he's still THE guy there when it comes to aerodynamics and car development.
Also money isn't just the sole reason. First there's a cost cap and second Mercedes and Ferrari spend just as much as Red Bull. It was 145 million last year, it's 140 million this year, and then next year it goes down to 135 million a year and it continues on from there. So they're all in the same boat there.
RB already said that they essentially stumbled on the solution.
@@pnwwags1818 is it though? When Newey entered F1, there was no real Ground effect cars anyway. And don't forget about the many many very smart boys in his team
My guess would be those metal skates flex and bends the floor into a certain shape at high speeds. Otherwise, we would see sparks and damage on the tarmac.
i would presume mechanical bending of the floor is ilegal? wether it be from the contact of the floor or from anything else? if it was as simple as it seems mercedes would have already tried it. the method seems simple, but its probably not all that meets the eye. and has something to do with the way ferrari and red bull have been illegally flexing their plank 4mm more than allowed.
@@jjfreer I was watching another video, and there is a rule about that. The maximum flex allowed at two points (something like 2mm), but the idea behind the rule was that the floor is NOT supposed to flex. But one team said "Oh, 2mm max? Gee, let's see what we can do with that!"
I had the same thought about damage to the track.
WAlready at Bahrain we could see a massive amouznt of sparks come from the red bull when it hits its maximum speed (and also some bumps). You could actually see these skates grinding over the track to keep the car to high to porpoise
I think your idea just sounds like it makes sense but when it comes down to it, we would see sparks flying from out under those skates continuously at high speeds which… we don’t see. I believe that how it works, (if that piece is indeed their solution for porpoising) that when it gets so close to the ground, the holes actually let air in (due to the low pressure under the floor) to reduce the actual vacuum (downforce) created or essentially keeping the floor from getting sucked all the way down, bottoming out and starting a porpoising cycle. It could be that it’s effect only works when the floor gets to a certain point and as soon as it rises above that, it returns to standard downforce. Maybe? I just don’t things its there to ride on. That would actually create enormous drag if it was.
it would also destroy the road surface. And it does not look to be closer to the ground than the other parts of the floor.
@Rock MacConcharraigh there are already titanium skidblocks under every car on the wood floor plank, and they are absolutely the things that create sparks, haven't you noticed the sparks created from every car when it reaches high speed with slipstream and drs open and smashes the floor?
You sound very ignorant
Yep, I think those things over there are to keep or mantein some air under the floor, making a little bubble of air, similar as an air damper on a height range. I also think they are a kind of mass damper too... But who knows? Even they don't really know for sure.. 😅
AHEM!!!!
I .... 🧐 am a CZcams engineer. 😎
@Rock MacConcharraigh are you trolling? Titanium dosnt spark 😆
Also, the center of the RB car's floor is far wider and the shape more abrupt than the other's, making it relying more on lateral expansion and less on vertical expansion of the flow thus making their floor less sensible to ride hight changes
GP Culture be like: whatever Driver61 said.😂😂
I am pretty sure these "ice skates" are mainly there to keep the floor edge from flexing. Red Bull has done something clever with their rear suspension and that is what keeps the car from porpoising.
While the skate helps Red Bull almost eliminate the porpoising, we also have to note that RB18 is the lowest riding car, which means the car is naturally riding very close to the ground without any issues. Perhaps the skate is there to avoid the floor from hitting the floor for being too low.
i think thats it mate :D
Seems more a temporary band aid fix. Surely need to stop the bouncing entirely.
Seems like some large ball bearings could touch the ground and roll inside a socket stopping the floor from getting too low could work. No sparks, very low rolling resistance.
If the rear corner of the floor touches the ground the negative pressure in the tunnels ramps up exponentially, the skate is simply more effective at keeping the floor edge off the ground than the stays others are using. The big miss here is how completely different Red Bull's tunnels are compared to the rest we've seen .
Great video. I have noticed that the Red Bull tends to generate more sparks compared to the rest of the cars. Could it be the metal ice skate part you are talking about here that makes it happen?
So the skates act as a Bump Stop , cool idea 💡 !!
Their floor has no kick points. Keeping a more or less smooth and even pressure distribution under the floor also rescues bouncing. They also focus on working the air though the venturies sideways instead of upwards, which is not ride height dependent. The skates are part of the solution but not all of it.
Bruh and Newey did his thesis on ground effect aerodynamics, he's just having the time of his life rn...
The thing is that these structures are quasi-skirts and skirts are banned, so this is surely a regulatory grey area.
I imagine there are two outcomes, ether other teams complain in bulk or this will start being adopted throughout the grid
How are they 'quasi' skirts? Skirts are sited round the floor edge to seal it, this is just a set of skids at the rear, its not doing the job of a skirt in any way, shape or form.
Tbh.. these skids are so obvious and simple
I'd have thought this would have been the very first thing Merc would have tried.. If they somehow never thought of that and hadn't tested it, they sure know what to do now. This weekend is going to be interesting..
They are not quasi skirts, they never sealed the floor at all. They even have holes on them to let air through.
What happens to the driver (or indeed the car itself) when a skate hits a bump?
@@davidelliott5843 it prevents the car from totally bottoming out which would cause the floor to stalled and suddenly lose all the downforce.
@@paulhope3401 we have to wait for competitors and regulatory body to either do something about it or not. Our interpretation is worth nothing to the outcome
Great video, thanks for taking the time to make it
Newey also said they looked at Lemans LMP1 cars that have suffered from porpoising and found many solutions to that issue.
Why this solution if you can change suspension travel?
My opnion is that the "skates" do more then just limit the car going too the ground.
I think its whole purpose is to deform the floor at higher speeds
In such a way that the venturi effect becomes larger.
Ever heard of anti squat? This prevents Red Bull's car from falling to the trap of porpoising
The plank being flexible in different places to where the measurements are taken is the reason. Let’s see what happens at spa
Merc and Ferrari's floor were photographed in the wild, RB purposfully exposed the floor. For a part that is such a gaurded secret why would they expose the floor willingly. It might be a trick, to fool the others to go chasing ghosts
Exactly. These cars are so complex that a metal plate alone is useless. The floor itself is so much more elaborate than other top teams. F1 engineers (and drivers) are the highest form of tinkerers. They will adjust, add remove, drill holes in metal, add another air vein… never ends.
The question is when the other teams will begin using them or asking fia to ban it
They could argue that the steel is carving in the tarmac and that creates debris, something akin to the reasons they claimed back in the day when asked for banning Gordon Murray's fan
What a great video unreal. Very well made best ive seen defo have a big future in the F1 game.
He stolen the animations from ChronoGP and deriver61 channels
Not only the animations just the whole concept and build up of many videos
Nice video but after watching such videos I often think if it was so simple and we know about it, then why others have not been able to do it?
Toto Wolf didn't seen this video yet. :)
The car are design differently
this content is gem and subscribed. better than race and sky or anyone else for that matter
I don’t think you’ve got the whole picture here. Firstly, I don’t see those “skates” at work. Not enough sparks from the back of the car during the race. Secondly, I think the battle is won by two other systems, the actual floor geometry and the suspension. The geometry of the Ted Bull floor seems to rely more on horizontal “squeeze” to increase pressure down the length of the car, rather than vertical squeeze, which is enhanced as the car gets lower under increased speed. You have alluded to this, but maybe more attention is deserved here, because it is not height dependant on the Red Bull. So as the car does come down and pressure increases, the pressure has already been there all the time, just increasing with speed and height. The second system that is key to all of this is the suspension, and I think half the battle is won here. I don’t think the suspension allows the car to bottom out. This involves anti-dive and anti-squat features in both front and rear suspensions respectively. And again you have covered this, but I think the rear suspension on the Red Bull is far more efficient than any other. I think there is a point past which it will not go, not allowing the car to bottom out until the pressure passes “x” g’s. We know the car does bottom out as we see the sparks, but we also saw that, at Spa, the Red Bulls lifted on the way into and through Eau Rouge every lap, so they wouldn’t bottom out because of the g forces exceeding their suspension comfort zone.
All very interesting.
So essentially this skate is a bump stop.
Liked and subscribed because of this video!
I wonder if the idea will be allowed considering it’s piece of metal constantly digging into the track
Whole grid using these things...only redbull not propoising 🤣🤣🤣
what, you mean like the metal floor bits that are always hitting and causing sparks?
@@adityaramesh7565
McLaren has the least porpoising out of all the teams, they never had the issue.
But they also don't have enough downforce.
@@nathanielbellard9481 nope...skirts are used by everybody...
@@adityaramesh7565 yeah.....no shit Sherlock.
These animations are insane! I cannot imagine how much work this was
He stolen the animations from ChronoGP and derive61 channels.
The shock or mass damper makes a lot more sense and can't be seen by other teams
If mer and ferrari floor is a first addition and the red bull is already developed then I'd be worried. Means ferrari and merc have alot more pace to gain there
Counter point: Redbull unlike Merc and to a much lesser extent Ferrari don't have to worry about this issue and can bring further upgrades to this package to keep their advantage.
Didn't look like it was solved at Miami GP, Redbulls were still PORPOISING. Albiet the cars were fast and Max obviously won the race, but I noticed it was still bouncing a lot compared to the Ferrari's behind max.
Yeah, I noticed the same.
That fin is for controling the air flow so it won´t escape out through the sides of the car, just simple aero and I have an even simpler solution
If it's this simple then I'm surprised Mercedes aren't doing it already. Sounds like all you need is something to impose a minimum ride height to avoid stalling the ground effect, a skate or something in the suspension would do that. It sounds easy to fix but I'm sure its not.
I've wondered since the season started if somehow adding some sort of travel limiter to the shocks to limit their travel and stop the car going as low, to the point where it would start to porpoise, would be the simple solution. I mean, they probably thought this through, and I'm by no mean qualified in any way to say this can be the solution, but I'm really questioning why wouldn't it be.
Just: Newey. 😎
Best explanation I've seen on this issue
Well done sir very well done
Using "ice skates" is definitely not "exactly what Red Bull has done". Jeez.
Ya I don't buy it. A metal skate would create massive sparks and gouge the track surface. That definitely would not be allowed.
The race at Miami showed a porposing Red Bull (Max's) in the last 15 laps or so. It was clearly visible down the main straight. It was as bad as Merc ever was. I have never seen it that bad before. Was wandering if this had any impact on the fact that Max was totally exhausted after race. So I am guessing this upload needs a revamp.
You have no idea what you’re talking about
I was wondering why the redbull car was so much faster last weekend in Miami. Amazing
I literally thought why wouldn't they just do this but then I thought nah they'd probs catch on curbs or be banned somehow as it seems too obvious
I am surprised it is considered inovative ou genius ... that was the very first thing I can imagine to solve it.
Simple and efficient. Why is it genius?
But wouldn't metal skate destroy the track at such speeds? And wouldn't we see sparks due to extreme grinding?
All going so well then “air escaping”… nope, the vortices are to stop air being pulled in the the low pressure area under the floor from the side and thus reducing downforce, you want air to escape, that’s why they wash as much out as they can with the turning veins on the floor inlet. The rest was good though 👍
I dont think it is the metal plates. It would be illegal. the only thing touching the ground is the wooden board so the FIA can measure the down force after the race.
Best explanation of porpoising yet ...or the nearest ....
I have a good idea why it happens and I also have a potential solution. But no one is willing to pay the money to get it, so from now on I simply watch.
They would wear out within a few laps! It's most likely some trick suspension they've got
I don’t think they are skates because we would definitely see a lot of sparks from their cars. Though I think they are meant to reduce downforce at extremely high speeds by letting just enough air to get under the car when it reaches a certain speed so it’s on the edge of porpoising. And it somehow becomes effective when the ride height drops low enough. Just an uneducated guess.
What amazing content... 👏🏼 😯
The question i have is how is this different from a suspension travel limit?
Photographers are spying on each and every car then sell their captured pics 😂😂😂
These graphics 👌🏻 even up to date Mercedes no pod car
Adrian Newey earning his weight in diamonds again.
Thank you, this is glorious
Red Bull had bouncing in Miami as well.
i thought the lowest point of the floor had to be the wooden board. teams should just put those metal skates in front of the back wheels and forget the 'stay's' completely ??
I wonder if those 2 redbull employees that flipped the car tub in front of cameras are still employeed
And this solution is car specific, meaning it is nearly impossible, or takes long time for other team to implement it.
It is genius. Red bull is good.
I don’t see how adding a simple metal strip is ‘car specific.’ RB and McLaren’s pull-rod, Ferrari’s bathtub shaped sidepods, and Mercedes’ sidepodlets are car specific.
Those solutions are built into the car’s design, and are too complex, time consuming, and costly to just add to another car.
This is more like the double T-tray splitter that Aston had in testing, which has now been copied by Ferrari and RB.
Got to say I disagree, these are probably the simplest of the "innovations" over the last few years to copy.
Stabilizer deflection blade is what I call it, very interesting, and I like it, very innovative, functional, thats what you get when structural engineers and aerodynamisist work together, they used the air flow as the object not the car, mean aerodymic engineers looked at how the air behaves at certain conditions, long story short, opposing the wind tunnel effect
isn't the point of the barge board to stop a senna style accident? surely if part of the red bull floor is rubbing on the ground then it's illegal? the board is being monitored to make sure the car isn't running so low that it rubs on the floor so shouldn't these skates be monitored too?
I've had this solution since the season started. Like the video said. It's quite a simple. Doesn't take a genius to know that you must prevent the car from going lower than necessary.
Wouldn't a car riding on a metal skate create sparks and be very evident? I don't see that amount of sparks from the Red Bull.
@@bighaus224 Its actually there to prevent the floor from stalling only when the car is bottoming out. Probably most useful when going over kerbs and bumps, it prevents the car from suddenly losing all downforce.
Red Bull managed porpoising mostly with the design of the floor together with the car’s suspension.
Their floor utilise more on horizontal expansion to create downforce. So they are less relying on the height of the car. The slope of the floor is also very gentle to avoid any suction peaks. Then the car’s suspension is specifically designed to minimise the vertical movement.
I think Alonso once said, we're not only fighting the other team, we're also fighting Adrian Newey.
I’m no aerodynamicist but this explanation seems wrong to me. If the RB were ‘resting’ on these skates on the straights, they would have no control whatsoever. And in every corner they would lean on one of these skates, giving them absolutely no control to make the corner. Also like mentioned earlier in the comments, a lot of sparks should be visible coming from the rear. They are not, the sparks are coming from the titanium skid blocks at the front
Miami has the fuel got lighter the Red Bulls were porpoising too.
This tiny thing is one of the part that solve this problem. The biggest thing that solve it is rear suspension and pull-rod
Red Bull used pull rod at the front axle & push rod at the rear end geometry which is abnormal for F1 car also different from the rest of the grid push(front) & pull(rear). There must be some kind of reason why Red Bull opted to be against implementing normal suspension geometry only they knew the advantages of it🤷♂️🤷♂️
redbull are fast on the straights, ferrari are fast around the corners. that's what it'll boil down to. who's made the right choice.
i think team mates will be an important factor this season. it seems if you're out on your own then strategy call is more difficult.
Honestly, I believe that the RB has a slight advantage. Are they losing time on corners? Sure. But they're gaining so much time on the straights that they gain back the time loss with interest.
@@AlgeArid true, but it will be track dependant. but i agree there will be more tracks where the rb will be better.
Newey being in the heyday of GE F1 makes him the best asset for RB right now. With all the Ground Effect problems cropping up again, the older answers just needs to be touched up for the new era
So the 1000 IQ idea was just to put something on the floor so it can’t touch the ground ? I mean could well be but seems almost too simple to think that other teams haven’t tried it. I’m an armchair specialist though so what do I know lol.
Also I would feel like this could do some serious damage to the track if all teams adopted it
@@gavcom4060 fucking groves dug into the track right before heavy breaking zones wouldn’t make me happy as a track owner 😂 so you’re right on that
@@davidesposito1022 yeah especially if that track is also used as a road
Its adrian newey genious in designing the aerodynamic for redbull.
Wouldn't riding on a metal skate create sparks?
How stupid of me .. I thought that track polishing had been banned in the late 70s. Looking at the huge shower of sparks flying from the redbull of Max Verstappen's . Someone somewhere in the regulations enforcement is NOT doing his / her job .The Lotus 78 was banned for exactly that .
Adrian Newey. This year the rules are areo based and not just power based.
Max is still Dutch, from a nation that almost only wins winter sports medals on speedskates, coincidence?
what i don`t understand is...why do teams show what they have underneath their car to other teams? wtF?
Its always won by the design team
You need a fast wheel man yes
But that wheel man needs the right tools to do his job
I don't think that a team/driver be penalized for building a better mousetrap.
gonna send this video to merc admin lol
On jumbo jet from 60s you had a metal plate on tail so you wont damage it on start by aplying to much climbing angle.
Skates? Right brothers? History? Then you say RB is so genius?
those skates is decoy to whats really going on in the back
Explain these to mercerdes pls
Why would you they ask the minimum weight limit to be raised when you are dealing with too much weight? Logically the maximum weight limit is what matters there.
as you could clearly see during the later stages of the race in the US ... they have not solved anything ... still bouncing away on low fuel and without DRS
I wish you wouldn't know Red Bull secrets 😅
i feel like this is cheating ngl, not cuz it helps porpoising but because it sounds like Lotus's old ground effects on how it skates along the ground to seal the air under the bottom of the car. IDK how this is legal it's practically like the Lotus ground effects which is illegal.
You can't tell me F1 didn't know Newbie would be a big advantage then cutting testing down yet wanting racing to be closer to me they messed up a bit here if all teams had had more pre test time as wind tunnels don't work on ground effects cars at higher speeds where it's the most important they could of had a leveler playing feild seems really obvious now most teams don't really have a clue and stumble about next year they will be more even I'm sure
Red Bull’ solution looks like a mininskirt ot the ‘70. Is it legal?
Fascinating
Doesnt seem to be a correct assesment. The "skates" don't seem closer to the ground than the rest of the floor and I don't recall seeing continuous sparks from under the RedBull on straights?
Mercedes and Ferrari should be sent this video then😉
The British GP is next 😅
I bet they added these skates for the picture of the floor and they nothing to do with the floor !!!.
seems to me that red bull are blurring the line between cheating and the rules, they did this years ago with that flexible front spoiler which was later considered to be illegal, not surprising they get away with it when you consider last years questionable last race where once again the rules were broken on Red Bulls behalf.
The disrespect for max talent in these videos is unreal 😂
How about a wild theory from somebody with no engineering expertise? I think those skates trigger a change in the car's suspension on the first bounce when it starts porpoising hence stopping it from doing so. The their suspension mechanism may also be engineered to switch back to normal after a period of when the skates don't make contact to the ground.
Interesting thought. I doubt it would be legal on the long run though. Also, these skates don't look like they can go anywhere :P.
Redbull F1 is the master of aerodynamics, they help VW on Bugatti development
Sounds super easy for everyone else to copy though