Skyrim - Is Necromancy Evil? - Elder Scrolls Lore
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- čas přidán 27. 02. 2018
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In our latest Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim video we go deep into the lore to answer the question, is Necromancy evil?
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is an open world action role-playing video game developed by Bethesda Game Studios and published by Bethesda Softworks. It is the fifth main installment in The Elder Scrolls series, following The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, and was released worldwide for Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 on November 11, 2011.
The game's main story revolves around the player character and their quest to defeat Alduin the World-Eater, a dragon who is prophesied to destroy the world. The videogame is set two hundred years after the events of Oblivion, and takes place in the fictional province of Skyrim. Over the course of the game, the player completes quests and develops the character by improving skills. The game continues the open world tradition of its predecessors by allowing the player to travel anywhere in the game world at any time, and to ignore or postpone the main storyline indefinitely.
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No, they're just healers that haven't givin up yet
I can't like your comments because of your name and profile picture but otherwise that a like for me
Magnus Andersen trust me, im just as sick of this meme as you are, but CZcams wont let me change it
Be glad you learned this lesson from a meme on youtube and not a tattoo
do you know de way? They're*
Ma Queen i no da wae
"Necromancy is evil" says the guy that soultrap everyone into gems to enchant his set
Well those people are evil
Evil can still know itself.
Michael Greenwell I agree
For others... what is a mirror?
I was okay with black soul gems till the dawnguard dlc. Now I use them sparingly on those I hate... like a serial killer... totally better than mass damnation.
Probably my most evil act in Skyrim was one time when I was doing the quest for the Ebony Mail. I decided that if I'm gonna be evil, might as well go full hog with it. I befriended Roggi Knot-Beard (a very nice guy, but a famously terrible follower), the quest for which involves bringing him back his family shield and he trains your Block skill as a reward. Then I sacrificed him to Boethiah, soul trapped him, looted his corpse, and enchanted a ring I looted off him with a Fortify Blocking enchantment using his own soul. I called it Roggi's Ring.
Unsurprisingly, this particular Dovahkiin was part of the Dark Brotherhood.
I consider Conjuration more hilarious than evil. Especially with the knowledge that bound weapons are daedra being forced into the shape of a sword
Amitamaru! INTO THE SWORD! doubt anyone will get that reference
@@XDKvlogs Shaman king my dude
@@XDKvlogs look around you look beyond you can make a unbreakable bond
@@kratosorokai1546 The world around you is not what it seems, all revealed beyond your wildest dreams
@@XDKvlogs sso many things i never could see so many choices falling on me could it be my destiny
“Remember kids, you’re only a necromancer if you mess up.”-Wandering Healer
Necromancers aren't bad people. They just want to make some friends....maybe 'raise' a family 😈
Raise... ha
Elliot Bishop it's really easy to rattle some bones when you try to wake the family from their not so pretty sleep.
I just hope that they have some backbone
they smell.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
for your comment 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
necromancy doesn't revive people, people revive people.
Genetix I love you.😂😂
Only stupid people wont get this lmao
Normies won't get this joke of a joke. Jokeception
I love candy 🍬🍭🍫
Perfect
"Necromancy, like any other magic, is a tool to be used." -Phinis Gestor
Well his name sounds like penis and shares a name with someone who has a dorito for a head so his opinion doesn't count.
@@zedkillerbros5685 bodied
Tell that to the many souls suffering in the soul cairn.
@@thewarden3554 soul trapping to enchant your gear sends them to the soul carin necromancy just takes a soul from the afterlife for a bit then sends it back
@@duckhathap763 thanks for the clarification. I still find it wrong since the soul still suffers pain and trauma in the process
from my point of view the jedi are evil
Ubeogesh then you are lost
To 100% ignore the practices of Dark. Those who master Light and Dark exceed those who only have mastered Light or Dark.
They just shortsighted... And kinda dumb
You underestimate my powah
Christian Swanson The Sith just wanted pussy!
well, this is a grave topic.
Matthew Chirino your pun just died it's a courpse of it's former self!
You really put that one in the dirt
God Damn it Barb
Your bad humour is killing me...
Matthew Chirino this comment has me coffin in disgust.
The dunmer ancestor spirit thing could actually be seen as the most "real" necromancy. In real life mythology and folklore, necromancy was almost purly to communicate with the dead in order to gain knowledge, or have a last chat with someone dear to you. "Necromancy" comes from the ancient Greek words "necros" which means "corpse", and "manteia" which means "divination". "Necromancy" is thus "divination of the dead".
Raising corpses as undead minions is actually more of a voodoo thing.
I remember reading something about caribean folks using a special drug and partially burying people to basically put them in a "trance" mode so they would take orders easily and thus giving birth to the whole zombie stuff, wether it was just a story or not
Yeah that whole mind control thing there also added to the zombie myth.
My guy its been a while. I subbed to you cus I liked your name like two years ago when you commented on one of minx's videos. How ya been?
Pretty good. Still frequent Minx's videos.
Especially in other fictional stories like D&D were it contains an undead known as "God Touch Undead", which the people of faith respect highly when compared to the other two types of undead created by Magic alone or Magic/Apothecary Accidents.
"I'm not a necromancer I'm just a really late cleric!" said by one of my players in my 'evil' d&d campaign
Bard: how cold you say somthing so controversial and yet so true.
@@meetthekitsune3973 I still don't understand why all clerics naturally have the ability to animate corpses when they have a specific ability that allows them to straight-up destroy weaker undead and make stronger undead run for their unlives.
@@thewonderfullymadejaraid7015 Clerics having necromancy spells is because some clerics might be devoted to gods of death, etc. Back in previous editions, some Cleric spells were alignment restricted. These days, you can have a good-aligned necromancy Cleric, but it also means a stereotypical goody-two shoes healer life Cleric has the ability to raise undead thralls if they want to.
Emperor Palpatine: "If one wishes to understand the great mystery, one must study all it's aspects." These fools only hinder themselves.
if one is to understand the great mystery*
Ah yes the guy who ordered a purge of the Jedi definitely most trustworthy
@@acat6145 doesn't have to be trustworthy to be correct in what he said.
I think Khajiit don't care about necromancy, because they are high af most of the time.
specially for securing their farms: skeevers eat moon sugar, farm tigers eat skeevers with moon sugar in them, tigers get lazy.
If you bring back a dead farm tiger from the dead you just need to train them once and they don't eat the skeevers, so they never get high on moon sugar, better crops, more moon sugar for the living... damn, I'd be a great farmer in TES.
Skooma's a helluva drug.
Damn it I'm not a doctor but
You're logic is sound
U so racist 😆
Replace Khajit with black.
Realize how badly you fucked up.
In one of my playthroughs of skyrim, My character was a blind dunmer mage, who used necromancy to see through his dead eyes.
That...is actually really cool
considering how fast eyes can rot I'm guessing your ripped a lot of eyes out of people's sockets: one day wearing the eyes of a bandit who tried to mug you, the other day having to hold the eyes of a deer in your hand because they don't fit in, plus you see the world all green and blurry... brilliant!
Umm. The dead don't use literal eyes. They see the same way the skeletons do, that little flame in their eyes. So technically dead vision is far greater than the vision of most living beings.
woah Nivag, whats your issue? I think its very creative, mine was more of a reply to the comment above mine...
Good character idea 😁
Raising Dead: Debatable.
Using Black Soul Gems: Evil.
What if you soul-trapped a bandit or evil magic user who was trying to murder you? Their soul isn't going to a nice place anyway. They could do a lot worse than the Soul Cairn.
@@plumsink like becoming one of Molag Bal's slaves
@@Plooooof Exactly.
Im of the philosophie that necromancy isnt evil in itself, the people who are using it may be, it goes the same for every magic, a Mad pyromancer can be as dangerous as an evil necromancer
NeverZ In the Elder Scrolls universe, there is some kind of driving force that turns Necromancers evil. The art in itself isn’t necessarily evil, but most of the people who practice it are corrupted in the search for power.
If necromancy is even a bit evil, Enchanting is Truly Villainous.
Agreed , imagine trading human souls to weird ass deities of another dimension to gain a little amount of power in small stones that will make your weapon a tiny bit stronger.
@@monsterhunter7424 definitely not a tiny bit but I get u
@@monsterhunter7424 Mmh, well the human souls you've manage to trap. Should probably get sent to hell anyway especially evil necromancers, vampires, and the occasional bandit.
@@jordantucker9799 since vamps get sent to coldharbor you could argue being sent to the soul cairn is a better fate
@@monsterhunter7424 You don't have to use human souls to enchant, at least not in Skyrim (it's been too many years since I've played the older ES to remember). In a more pious playthrough trying to serve the Nine as best I can I made a Breton battlemage vampire hunter. I make a small fortune with alchemy and enchanting crafted daggers with "white" soul gems I found in my travels. For my own gear I purchase grand soul gems from the many reputable mages throughout the land. I won't even touch a black soul gem unless it is already full with a grand soul out of superstition that it might take a part of my soul. I use the grand black gems on weapons I sell in hopes that if the weapon depletes it'll release, or dispatch their soul one day.
"Dangerous knowledge is still knowledge and therefore useful. Usually turns out to be the most useful in my experience"
-- Master Neloth
What do you call it when you bring dead jeans back to life?
Necropantsy.
I tried.
What do you call a skeleton in a bow-tie?
Necrofancy.
Rooster Floyd whats a skeletons favorite instrument?
Trom-bone
End my suffering
Man I thought it was a diet
give this guy a wishbone and hope he gets better
Rooster Floyd welp ... you tried
"There is no inherent villainy in any action. Only in the heart that performs it" Master Li, Jade Empire
Sun Li?... i can never bring myself to hate him even when i was still a child i couldn't hate him ( i was quite young when that game came out)
so RAPE..? also say Fathers selling their under age daughters to grown men for 1000's of years..?
rape no matter the culture or how they view it.. is OBJECTIVELY HARMING PEOPLE.. the INTENTIONS DO NOT MATTER...
u can BELIEVE RAPE IS OK and doing some GOOD.. butt its OBJECTIVELY NOT..
example.. the fact that men prevented women from working and having education and own property for 1000's of years... and yes all the religions believe it was "GOOD" so they intentions where seen as "GOOD" butt that act was OBJECTIVELY EXTREME BAD AND CRIPPLING FOR ALL OF HUMANITY... literally half the human population was EXCLUDED BY FORCE from contributing..
so that quote is bullshit.. just cause it "sounds" nice. . doesnt make it NOT STUPID.. xb
@@vexile12 It's very hard to hate someone who was just trying to do what seemed right to them. Even if they were entirely wrong.
@@InanisNihil I don't disagree with you on this. But, try not to take things so far out of the context they were used in. We were talking about necromancy. Not criminals
@@kylecollins3942 i think u deleted a comment...? only see bits of it in the notification and not all of it.. and when i open it up.. it aint there...
ngl.. it sounded stupid.. there's accusations and claims in it.. that y u deleted it...?
if u got some trash to say... speak up fool... let me see all of it...
I feel like it depends on the user. For example if you go kill an entire group of bandits who we’re terrorizing a town, then proceed to use necromancy to turn them into undead golems, THEN use them to help defend the area around said town which would protect the town and keep the reanimated bandits as well as any other undead or monsters away from the villagers. Magic is not inherently good or evil, it’s the user of said magic that makes the difference. You can use fire for warmth insted of burning down anything in your path, ice to cool insted of freezing soild, or lightning to power insted of disintegrating.
My personal opinion will probably be a bit controversial but here goes:
Black soul gems, while not technically "necromancy" as classified by the people of Tamriel, are definitely fucked up. You're feeding the Ideal Masters who are NOT particularly nice guys and condeming people to eternal suffering.
With that said though, I see performing necromancy on a corpse as not all that much different from killing that person in the first place. Necromancy is a means to an end, and while it causes suffering, burning people alive with fire magic, or mind controlling them to walk off a cliff, or turning them into a sweetroll and eating them, or just stabbing them with a sword, can be considered equivalent at least to some extent.
As long as you're not doing it unnecessarily, and not doing it on innocent people, I won't shed tears for some murderous bandit having to stick around the mortal realm for a few minutes longer.
Agreed. Eternity in the Soul Cairn is way worse of a fate than bringing someone back to life for a temporary amount of time.
but my sword needs its fancy fire effect
I'd agree that necromancing a bandit or some such isn't something I'd really lose sleep over, and one can definitely argue the use of necromancy as a means to an end, I'd still have to mention that two wrongs do not make something right.
The very least one can do is hold themselves accountable for any potential suffering they cause.
What's wrong with the Soul Cairn? I think it's quite pretty, and I wouldn't mind making friends with the other folks there. Is the some other, unseen torment there?
Never thought about that, interesting
Necromancy is canonically illegal in Skyrim. In the quest ‘The Savior of Selveni Nethri,’ we actually see one of the necromancers was going to be put to death for the ‘crime’ of necromancy & that’s why she ran to Southfringe Sanctum. That the College of Winterhold practices necromancy is more likely due to the weakness of the Winterhold government & less to do with its legal status.
Skyrim must not like Thanos or anyone with one of the Infinity Gauntlet power / similarly close to it. lol
And yet the Dovahkiin can walk around with undead thralls and Soul Cairn summons and none of the guards will bat an eye?
Astute Anansi well it's the dragon born and in your example the dragon born is a master at least conjunction and has survived the soul Cain so I think they at least let that pass since with the death thrall it's another person to fight. Basically Bethesda didn't program that as a crime that would affect the player character well in lore it's illegal.
She was accused of practicing necromancy illegally. Not that necromancy is illegal.
No like they said with the fall of the mages guild their rules were gone aswell, of course necromancy is still detested by many and necromancers are feared. The part where most necromancers are still being hunted is most likely due to the fact that they actively kill people for their studies, which is a major crime. For the part where the dragonborn is allowed to raise undead and it just being overlooked...when you killed the chicken in Riverwood everyone tried to murder you and you are telling me if necromancy was against the law they wouldnt kill yoo?
Why people who played as a necromancer, didn't have the choice to join nercomancers summoning the Potema spirit?
Imagine how immersive that would be, a real freedom of choice.
I hope elder scrolls 6 has ACTUAL choiches
Come join dnd, where there are people that literally seduce dragons instead of fighting them: if your dm allows it you can do it (basically it has to be phisically possible: you can't decide to jump over a 50m wall, but you can try to do anything possible, including asking those guys if you can join them or you can just imitate them and see if you can help that way)
Daldo X I wanna play a real game not one inside my mind and on a board lmao
@@poil0culs522 I mean... Technically it is a real game, and you can have a map (both board or on the pc) where you put houses and people...
But yeah, it isn't like a videogame
@@poil0culs522 > D&D came out many years before video games, so if we want to be technical, D&D is more akin to a "real" game than video games.
I'd also imagine if Tamriel were "modernized" up to the modern standards of real life, I would think Necromancy would be used for some kind of forensics
Murder mysteries would no longer exist. This is why necromancy is outlawed. Big Murder Mystery
Actually i think manual labour would be the nieche, why pay a worker when you can make a corpse unload and carry crates , they would probably fill the nieche of simple robots.
@@geegones9821 This is actually some of the 'true' lore behind 'Zombies'.
In Haitian and Voodoo culture, Zombies were people that were given an alchemical cocktail of roots and herbs. The first cocktail slowed the victims heartbeat enough to be considered dead (think the drink from Romeo and Juliet) and the second would revive them from their 'death'. Afterwards the victim would be continually drugged to make them more submissive and servant like.
This is explored in the 1932 film 'White Zombie' with the supernatural element being exaggerated. Bela Lugosi (Dracula) plays a Voodoo practitioner that turns locals into Zombies that work his sugar cane mill. During the film, a man asks Legosi's character to turn a woman into a Zombie so that he can take her as a wife.
This is also the gist of the Scooby Doo! Where Are You? episode 'Which Witch is Which?' where a Swamp Witch conjures a Zombie specifically as a servant.
You can largely thank George Romero for turning Zombies into flesh eating, decaying undead. Which, to me, is a little unfortunate as the idea of Zombies as normal people under the influence of drugs following the orders of a 'Priest' or 'Master' is very interesting.
They can't talk, I doubt it
@@alexanderfitzgerald4219 the corpses can't talk though. They seem pretty mindless
ES6 better have a branching necromatic faction from the normal "mage guild". More faction choices/ impact please!!!
wasn't the worm cult already some branch that built itself in the mages' guild and then separated?
CDgonePotatoes Lore-wise, yes. I think OP was talking roleplay-wise though.
Just revamp the magic back to oblivion or prior depth levels in general and I'd be happy. And making combat animations more varied, if not add a full on combat system.
Skyrim is....incredibly bland looking back now
The Mages Guild was disbanded in the Fourth Era, so...
They havent had opposing guilds since morrowind. It would be buce though
When you said skyrim is the perfect temperature for human bodies. I instantly remembered the man who kiddnapped women and reanimated them. He had a lovely harem, and he mostly likely fornicaed with those women inside his icy cave.
Sunny Bridges Oh man I forgot about that guy, even in Skyrim you can't escape the incels
+Jordan Bauman-Putnam "even in skyrim you can't escape the incels" that shit made me laugh man 😂
wait, that's a thing in Skyrim? What was the name of the character? Or the quest? Or the location?
@@sancturillore It's an island off the coast of winterhold, it will have a giant nordic archway on it and it should be visible from the map
Oh God, I'd forgotten about that.
There're flowers all over the bed, too....
*Dry Heaves*
0:25
Mannimarco notices the camera, and it made me laugh harder than it should have
3 years later it made me laugh harder than it should have
"The line between good and evil is so blurred that maybe it was never even there to begin with"
Even in the bible one cannot have knowledge of good without also having knowledge of evil. Kind of saying the exact same thing isn't it?
@@darrekworkman8685 you know what "good" and "evil" means, Biblically?
"Good? Bad? I'm the guy with a gun."
- one famous rookie necromancer
I like the idea of necromancers using their power to reanimate a recently fallen ally. This way they get a second life of sorts, and it's more likely the soul would be willing to be resurrected, because they are still fighting for a cause they believe in. So you could use healers to heal the wounded, and necromancers to heal the dead, greatly increasing the tenacity of a fighting force.
Which is why when I clear out an convenient of necro's. I try using raise dead on discovered corpses mostly to use them up as so they can't.
I have a character in mind(an altmer), who holds such hatred for the Thalmor, that he'll seek out as much power and influence as possible, to at least match them, if not overpower them. And because the Thalmor have come back again before, he believes they'll just keep coming back, so he'll even embrace vampirism to become the eternal bane of the Thalmor, an ever-unliving nightmare to what he deems a cancerous cell of the altmer. He has no problem with Talos(altmer worship their ancestors as gods, why not Man do the same?), and he views any enemy of the Thalmor as a potential ally to him. He respects and honors(to the extent he can), the *NINE* Divines(including Talos), and if possible, would gladly do what he can to unite as many forces against the Thalmor(but is willing to stand alone among his army of undead if need be). He prefers making zombies out of any Thalmor he ccomes across(and doesn't mind doing the same to pitiful brigands and bandit thugs, anyone who would prey on the weak, innocent, and lost).
His ultimate goal; to crush the Thalmor again, and again, and again, and again, and again, for as long as it takes. He'll be Nirn's vanguard against the tyranny of the Thalmor. And should the day come, that not a single person, Man or Mer, with their ideology and schemes, will ever darken Nirn again, he hopes to the Nine Divines, that he'd willingly lay down the curse of Bal he hopes he used for good, and try enjoy living once more(setting free any and all souls still trapped).
one of my characters is an Imperial Necromancer that became a Lich purely to spend his undeath killing as many thalmor as he pleases (Undeath Remastered and Immersive Lichdom mods used, would have Classical Lichdom as well but the mod author has hidden the mod on the Nexus)
Man it would be sweet if FudgeMuppet turned that into a character build and showcase it. I'd play the heck out of that!
Hey, what about a High Elf that was excommunicated from the Thalmor?
Otherwise, "fight meh"
@Declan Nathan That's your opinion.
I just thoufht of something.
What about raising an army of dremoras to conquer akavir. And THEN make a necro army from the corpses. And then comming back to tamriel to put up the empire of a thousand years
(I think i ve seen that somewhere but i m not sure... )(the goal of the empire would simply to crush any attempt at overthrowing it and unifying tamriel to avoid further war and resove conflicts)
With the redguard necromancy is so much shunned that if someone raises a corpse and attacks you with it, you are not allowed to fight back or you will commit a great sin against your ancestors. The clan that fight the undead take that sin knowingly as a sacrifice for their people. However, most dead in hammerfall are buried with certain rituals that makes it impossible to raise them. The only corpses people are fearful of are those that shipwreck at the shores of hammerfell and remain without their last rites.
Also, in Summerset, scholars are able to get corpses and experiment with them, but only in order to gain knowledge for their people and not as an army of corpses for combat.
Gotta cut off the head to make sure they dont come back.
@@gilgameshthetreasurehunter2750 redguards invoke Arkays Law when performing funerary rites which prevents the body from ever becoming undead
Raise an undead army to till the land and make food for people. Best method.
Then when you're done, use the bodies to fertilise the land the next time. Win win!
Unless they are carrying some sort of disease or plague that infects the food, animals, or people.
Groisu I forgot about that. I'd assume the ash would keep the nutrients, unless it turns to ash because of some magical energy destroying the corpse, in which case they have cow manure :p
Groisu True. I don't think there's any logical reason for it to turn into ash other than to stop you from spam reviving corpses. Like they don't burn up or anything. Maybe Fudgemuppet can explain it :p
Ash makes good fertilizer.
I love playing a inherently evil character, but then being the nicest person possible.
"Necromancy necessarily causes suffering"
So you're saying Thalmor are fair lab rats
Nah that’s the stormcloaks. The thalmor actually support them winning the war to further weaken the empire!
I love necromancy but c'mon, let's not beat around the bush. Regardless of how you use it you're still desecrating corpses and enslaving sometimes innocent souls. But I like being an edgelord. What's everyone else's excuse?
Nice profile pic. Is that Mei or am I tripping?
Hell yeah it is. I've been using her for profile pics for like three years now on various platforms. She has blue eyes in the pic because it's a black and white image from the manga I ran through an auto color program thing. The color reference use to do it was a girl with blue eyes so that's why it did that. Otherwise it came out a'ight I think.
Now that the anime is out I should start using screencaps.
You can just reanimate the corpse no need to do anything with the soul. Also many fictional cultures,(don't know a real life example) view a dead is just that a dead body it's dead. Hey once I die I'm donating my organs
9_Bucks You don't actually use the soul. Reanimated enemies can't be soul trapped.
I keep thinking of that old image macro.
*Go my undead minions! Go save the children!*
i have a dead thrall chicken that i raised to be my companion forever, cool pet i must say, now that i have have twin souls i'm looking for another fun character or animal to join the party.
I had a zombie mudcrab once. It was great.
Mudcrab is so cool, but i was thinking about a Netch in Solstheim, the little baby one, that would be cool to have
skyrim is love, skyrim is life... 😵
Maybe Mirrak. If the game let's you.
"Necromancy may be legal in Cyrodiil, but few will openly admit to practicing it now that the Mages Guild has banned it."
"Farewell"
Last words of a great man
Yes, but a bandit's soul is better put to use to add a chaos+paralysing enchantment to my sword than it would be otherwise.
Bandits are fair game necromancy!!!💀☠💀☠
I like to call it "free range necromancy."
And if you're a werewolf, eat their hearts, reanimate their corpses, and THEN bind their souls to a soul gem...
Oh no' death is just the beginning of the pain train for bandits
Selective justice is just hypocrisy.
I'm not judging, just noting.
you mean banditos right?
Funny when Skyrim is like "Necromancy is Evil" but in the Soul World. They say "If you can interact with the Dead or enter the Spirit Plane of Existence without the aid of Other Worldly Magic, then you are using Necromancy. For Death is only another state of Life until you cease to exist." lol
2:25
Bosmer have Australian humor confirmed.
cemetery: exist
nercomancys: it's free real estate
Ever since I entered the Soul Carn in Skyrim, I get extremely twitchy when thinking about the Soul Trap spell.
Same. I only use it on animals now.
I tried to use it on Ulfric but it didn’t work
Now I just use Thalmer
@@theomnissiah-9120 It didnt work because Ulfric is forcefully put into Sovengarde if the Empire wins the civil war. Why that moronic, violent, dumb, barbarian is put there is beyond me but I guess Nord standards are low. Regardless, they cant let you soultrap him because then seeing him in Sovengarde would make no sense.
@@MG-wx9ib don’t nords go there as long as they die valiantly in battle?
Hmm, now I want to see a fantasy world where necromancy is considered good and well respected. Diablo necromancers are quite like that, but they’re more close to neutral than good.
Diablo 2 was the first fantasy game I ever played and it got me hooked on playing good necromancers.
It is one of the most unique interpretations of necromancers and I love it to death. I wish more anything would look upon this aspect of necromancy
Skulduggery Pleasant.
Almost... Necromancy is just considered dangerous, not inherently bad.
And the titular character is a lich or revenant.
Jay K. sorry to revive this after 2 months but: in the dragon age games at least some cultures (specifically the nevarran people if you care to know) use necromancy in a religious sense to pay tribute to their dead ancestors. they have giant, elaborate necropolises where their dead reside, and becoming a necromancer to tend to & communicate with the dead is one of the highest positions a mage can aspire to within nevarra. also, there are more "neutral" types of necromancy all over the place because spirits can possess and communicate throught the dead autonomously.
idk if you still care, but maybe someone else in the comments does lol
Jay Tockstein I'll check it out. Thank you, kindly necromancer!
I wonder, can you soul trap a vampire to save their soul from Coldharbour? Despite being undead their soul is still in their body at full capacity. Only some of their corpse turns to ash so you could then still reanimate them, forcing part of their soul back in. Slaying them again after this turns their body completely into ash, but where does this part of their soul end up? Coldharbour or Soul Cairn?
Next up: Is enchanting evil? We know of the Soul Cairn as the player but in the lore, how many enchanters thing it is fine? Even Serena's mother didn't know about the Soul Cairn. She just felt like there was more to enchanting than it appeared
If me and my friends were fighting and I died. I would want to help them. I couldn't rest if I knew my friends were fighting and I died and couldn't someway protect them.
Oh yeah, you could solve their uninished business! Genius.
Necromancers are just really late healers
“The dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some may consider to be..... UnNaTUral” -Sheev
When playing a character that uses spells like soul trap and reanimation spells I often think go by the logic that they have a set of rules, for example, refusing to use certain spells or only using them on evil people and animals. This could, I think, be another possible justification for necromancy being used for good: preventing more harm than it causes. A necessary evil, if you prefer.
"Kill meeee!" Yeah, pretty evil.
8:32 I released the poor skeleton from the chains.
Love these longer videos
The Draugr are a very easy example of necromancy not being evil, same with the companion tomb as well as the twilight sepulcher. The Draugr are not tormented beings, when resting a lot of them actually have a home in sovngarde, such as Olaf One-Eye. You also get a shout to summon a spirit of the 3 nord heroes that you aid in defeating Alduin. Vahlok was considered a hero, but he's also a lich guarding the temple of Miraak; again an example of not evil. It is reasonable to assert that the dragon cult had necromancy down to a level that no other culture has and that Alduin is the best entity at this craft as he's capable of reviving full dragons restoring not only their full bodies permanently but also their free will (as seen with Ohdaviing). As such, necromancy in itself isn't necessarily evil, it's often the users of the craft that get greedy or lack the necessary understanding to fulfill the craft properly.
I remember reading a book in Skyrim on this exact topic. I forgot what it was called, but it had something to do with a debate between two people on whether or not necromancy is evil. The person who was arguing for necromancy happened to be a necromancer at the end. I forgot the title of the book though.
Black arts on trial
Well of course an actual practitioner of the art and someone who understands it the most would be the one to argue for it.
Lesbomancy is my favorite type of magic.
That's hot daddy
Zoltan
Hey, Michael. I rewatched this video, intently listening to the theory of how raising the recently deceased torments the soul of that individual, and I got to thinking...
If an individual is killed and soul trapped, and then their body is raised, whose soul is in the raised body? Would a connection linger between the now trapped soul and their body despite being trapped, or is another soul pulled from the surrounding and used?
An Idea for a “nice” necromancy bild: To skeleton you sommen is and old Friend/Lover how doesn’t want to be in the spirit world without you and ask you to make him/her stick around until die to
That's the plot of the blood on the ice quest, the murder investigation quest. if you read his notes it seems he's trying to revive his sister with whom he seemed to have an... Interesting relationship with her.
Fun fact: usually necromancy doesn't bring back someone's soul, but simply moves the body as if it was alive: you would need something on the higher end of the spectrum to interfere with a soul and it would probably fall under the resurrection spells, which are more restoration than necromancy...
Reminds me of one time when I played a Necromancer build. Would ONLY use the corpses of bandits/vampires/other necromancers. People who were evil would endure the suffering. Innocent civilians would never be used Basically he followed a weird code of Hammurabi thing.
That's what my dragonborn did with soul trapping. Only used it on people who didn't deserve to ascend to Aetherius.
Me, who soul traps left and right: * surprised pikachu face *
So then, whenever we recharge an enchanted weapon or staff, we are commiting necromancy?
you only really cause suffering when you do so using a black soul gem, as black souls persist after death and can enter an afterlife, dooming them to spend eternity in the osul cairn is unquestionably evil. (one of the reasons why i never make the black star in skyrim)
white souls are different, the moment they die, their suffering ends, their spirits don't persist after death, which is why using them for enchanting isn't considered immoral (still if you do have second thoughts about traping an animal soul i guess you shouldn't hold on to them for too long, as the soul probably still suffers until it is used)
Windhelm Guard But you can't put humans in white soul gems
Groisu That's not true at all. The quest for Azura's Star in Skyrim shows that the souls of people get trapped and they live on inside the soul gem. They do not get converted to energy.
I actually kinda think that there are two types of necromancy, necromancy that uses energy coming from the sorrounding world and necromancy that uses the energy of the soul linked to the corpse: of the first kind your reanimated corpses are just mindless drones, puppets you command at will with their authonomy growing lower and lower as their body decays, this type of necromancy requiring lots of energy the more complex the reanimated body and the commands given to the unit are; the second type of necromancy just pushes the soul back in the body, "shackles" it and then the soul is slowly eaten away to power the body, in this case the reanimated person can rebel against the necromancer but an additional spell forcing the will of others on the body that also taps in the soul's energy creating an immediately obedient although complaning minion (these are the ones that yell "go away", "I don't want to harm you" and "I can die in peace now" as you confront them).
Soul magic also has two ways of going like that with either willfull or forcefull intent, the first one that the Dunmer use since their ancestors brought back for questions are willing to give their information (it's like calling your grand as he's enjoying his pension and asking him how to fix a toilet because he worked as a plumber before, he can flip you off and tell you to find it out yourself or decides to help you anyway; the second type of soul magic is like the second necromancy I talked about above, the soul is unwilling and brought to submission but this time without a body (kind of, you can see in ESO's dunmer quests that the spirits still raise from the ashes of the person, maybe it just takes less energy to manifest themselves in the mortal realm using their deceased body as a vessel)
Jacen Solo yes but he tempered with it to basically immortal.
I always thought it was funny how Thonar and his wife get reanimated in The Forsworn Conspiracy
I want a story about a wood elf that interprets the green pact as them being required to practice necroromancy.
This is an interesting discussion. I like to think that you can roleplay a benevolent necromancer. If you believe that memory and experience is something that lives in the human or animals brain, then the soul itself cannot experience suffering. Think about the sorcerer who trapped himself in the black star. He didn't seem to be suffering though I'm sure the daedric prince of that quest would have probably preferred that. It seems to be an act of utility using the soul as raw material. If you believe that a soup exists then it must be energy and energy cannot feel. I like to headcannon that as a necromancer, I reanimate the body with magic flowing directly into the thrall's brain this controlling the body. Evil/dangerous necromancy would allowing the magic to awaken the memories of the brain which would be a corruption of death reminding the thrall that they are dead thus initiating their suffering and struggle. Though most of the time, if the memory of life does surface during the thrall's reanimation, then the body will remember that it's dead and it will simply fade. Memory/suffering live in the body thus the soul (energy) can't experience pain. Maybe I just don't know enough about elder scrolls lore but for necromancy in general it makes sense
Most players usually bring back enemies. Is it evil to reanimate someone who tried to kill you so you could protect yourself from other enemies?
gloomy Computation
The manipulation of souls and corpses is an evil act.
crownprince76 I don't think so. For every two people that try to kill me, one comes back to help me put down the other. Seems fair.
arrow to the head = good
knife to the throat = good
mace to the skull = good
burning people alive with fireball = good
making the town's blacksmith go crazy and kill his wife = good
joining the thieves guild = good
joining the dark brotherhood = good
joining harkon and the vampires = good
reviving an enemy you just killed = SUPER EVIL
@@findout2655 Denying ANYONE of their afterlife is always evil. Even more evil than what they tried to do to you. These are metaphysical crimes that go beyond the realms of mortals.
TheSuperRatt "These are metaphysical crimes that go beyond the realms of mortals."
not in skyrim's lore, as far as we know heroes are rewarded with sovngarde, evil dudes are rewarded with whatever happens to everyone else...
and practicing necromancy won't bring you to anywhere different unless you make a bad deal with a daedric prince or the ideal masters like some fools have, you could even be a necromancer and be rewarded with sovngarde if you were a "hero", there are a lot of mages there as we can see, no wonder some of them know conjuration, illusion, etc. (imoral spells)
No. I don't think Necromancy is Evil. I think Necromancy depends on The User. If i was to use Necromancy to Rob Graves and Terrorize Towns then yes it would be Evil but if i was to use Necromancy to save people and protect others then it would be good. I think if i just practised it in private and used my Undead to serve me it might be viewed as Neutral. This is just my two cents on Necromancy
true, but necromancy has the side effect of slowly turning you insane, you never use necromany is the base games, just mysticism and conjuration, as necromancy is a complete school like thalmaturgy. it's the ES version of blood magic, but if you can find away to keep your sanity and avoid the urge to cast ice magic at anyone who gets to close to you, you should be fine...
The Dark master Yeah...Thats the downside to it
"Necromancy as any other type of magic is a tool to be used,
of course non-mages not see it that way"
If you were able to commune with the dead and even raise a warrior or soldier that wanted you to do it for the chance of at least one last battle by your side (provided you had earned their respect in any way shape or form) or for another chance to help defeat a common enemy, then that'd be an exception.
there is wisdom in harnessing the strengths of your enemy
Shepard, isn't that what the reapers do
HunterKage Joestar this qoute is from the control ending where shepard takes control of the reapers and users them to rebuild
I meant the reapers under reaper control. The reapers use multiple races to create one reaper. The blue ending is also the best ending.
HunterKage Joestar i would say the blue ending has a lot of things that could go wrong
Like what, maybe if shepard is a dick
The only good necromancy is summoning souls from the soul cairn, since we know both Arvak and Durnehviir hate being trapped there, we can also assume the 3 boneman warriors you can summon also hate being stuck in the soul cairn, so making them come back to life to help you fight, even if it counts as necromancy it's still a noble action that brings some sort of pleasure to the Souls you summon
Your knowledge of all Skyrim and all its lore is astonishing awesome ..... or scary. Great knowledge and editing of video.
Well, the Bosmer would then, by default, love the idea of the dead being raised - so they are not wasted. Hence, the joy and fun they felt when their "lazy" ancestor was raised.
This coincides with their cannibalism. If a body, which could be used as food, is instead used for subjugation, it has become wasted as rather than serving the community as a whole, it serves but a single entity.
So, both depictions align and therefore make sense. An individual can find reanimation amusing, but the society will find it wastful.
The part about the Lich reminded me of Voldemort and his Horcruxes.
I'm not surprised. Voldemort is a lich.
So is Sauron. Funny how the two biggest fantasy villains in literature are both liches.
@@niallreid7664 Voldemort was quite possibly the stupidest Lich to ever exist in any setting. 7 Phylacteries and STILL got destroyed by some teenagers
@@JondarKorric lol
@@niallreid7664 i would say voldemort is a lich, just not in the traditional sense
Basically an horcrux is a philactery, though a portion of his soul is still inside his body, which doesn't make sense for a lich (the multiplie philactery thing doesn't either but whatever)
(a single philactery should contain the whole soul, not just a portion, and the body should be clinically dead and possessed by the soul, which i think halts the decomposition and rather mummifies it or something similar, though it's common foot a lich to be a skeleton)
Also in various settings a philactery creates a new body that is then possessed from the lich's soul every time the one currently in use "dies".
I always raise and bind criminals. Just seems proper punishment.
i agree. "community service"
Sentencing eternal damnation for mortal crimes is in itself, a crime.
@@TheSuperRatt According to who?
@@TheSuperRatt nah. Not really
@@MadamePianissima Yeah maybe not a crime, but it's immoral.
A finite crime is just never deserving of infinite punishment. No matter what abhorrent shit you do, it never even *compares* to eternal damnation. It's quite objective actually. Not really a matter of opinion.
Vastarie!!!! I love Vastarie, I'm so glad you mentioned her!!! I wish I had a quippy necro-joke, but my sense of humor is just DEAD today so forgive me for the joke, my humor is dry as a bone
You said something about draugr giving energy to dragon priests. Is that why you sometimes find dead draugr in the crypts (the ones i'm talking about are those who carry bonemeal and a few peaces on gold on their body, as well as laying in "bed" and seem to have died whilst sleeping)?
Necromancy isn't evil it's just used by evil people
Thomas Gedak
If your mother died and I resurrected her to be my personal slave, would you be willing to just say “Meh” and ignore it?
Ragyo Kiryuin the Glorious God-Tier Waifu that's a stupid argument. Oh my love one corpse is a slave oh no. Of course it would bother me because that makes it personal. Also my mom's cremated so no corpse. But complete utter stranger no not really. Also depends what form of necromancy your talking about. A lot of practices falls under necromancy. I care about the living not the dead
Thomas Gedak
You missed my point.
Everyone has loved ones. Someone’s resurrected corpse also belongs to someone who had loved ones.
Are you saying somebody can do anything wrong by other people as long as you personally are not affected?
So no, it’s not a stupid argument.
"Are you saying somebody can do anything wrong by other people as long as you personally are not affected?"
The answer to that question, is why people on Earth can suffer so much and the powers turn away and line their pockets
Thomas Gedak guns dont kill people... People kill people!
I would say it is. you're killing a person bringing them back and if you listen to the flavor chat you can hear them suffer and when the effect ends they say "sweet release"
burning people alive with fireball also makes them suffer
@@findout2655 Yeah, now imagine reviving them after.
Master vampires say weird shit, complaints of hunger, etc.
How do you know they're not just nutting?
@@findout2655 throwing a fireball at someone doesn’t send them to the soul cairn
Very good video. Really thorough analysis and sensible conclusion.
3:18 you my friend have just gave me a build idea.
Okay but what about someone who exclusively uses necromancy to temporarily raise those who have recently died because they were victims of kindnapping, vampires, the wild life, etc so their ashes left behind when the spell wares off can be given the proper burial rites after finding out who they were, where they lived and if there's anyone who'd miss them?
"Just because something is used for evil acts does not mean it is inherently evil"
Could you please tell this to the California State Government?
This is a terrible analogy though, did you even watch the video? Necromancy is still torture for the most part. Only that voluntary voodoo stuff seems to be more spiritual than necrotic
@@marisanya I can just see Mannimarco summoning *Spooky Scary Skeletons!* every time when it's the full moon where his altars will turn soul gems into black soul gems... QUICK! SOMEBODY MAKE A MOD FOR THAT!
One of my favorite videos on Skyrim. Thanks man
I just like the idea of a nearly endless supply of expendable warriors, never having to worry about taking as many casualties. If there was a way to reanimate the corpse without manipulating the corpse's soul, that would be cool. I wonder if there was a way to shape raw magicka into a false soul?
"Thou shalt not disfigure the soul." - Frank Herbert, _Dune_
I think my big question now is: would enchanting armor be considered evil or taboo? The enchantment itself may be protective, but who had to suffer and die to achieve it?
"just because orcs used axes to commit evil doesn't mean the axes are evil"
huh sounds oddly familiar
Loved the vid Michael. More please
I was thinking of making my Altmer Healer/Cleric seek out to become a Lich and researching on Necromancy not to bring harm to others, but in an attempt to become truly immortal himself, and possibly sharing the said immortality with others. Sadly, it seems that no matter how you look at it, Necromancy is clearly evil by it's nature. Kinda sucks how becoming immortal the "easy" way is only through an "evil" way like sacrafices and vampirism.
sometimes when you kill an undead person, the will groan "THANK.....YOUU....."
YES ITS EVIL
Well, my anti-hero type character only uses necromancy on bandits and the like and I think a murdering, pilaging, possible rapist bandit deserves some more suffering. Aside from that, he just summons Daedra.
good point lol
thats only the case if you kill ghosts but not undead
@@thefench1 no resurrected people also say it
Reanimated humans will also say something like "Finally, release"
Loved the video.
0:25 Hey, you there! I see you over there!
"...the axe isn't evil." Well, I mean most of them.
you need to make that woodelf build
Bosmer Necromancer upon questioning: WASTED! I haven’t Wasted a body in years! Look, here, this is Skelebones, the bone golem made of every deer my minions have killed for food!
In the Skyrim lore, the dragon preist "Hevnoraak" wanted to come back to life with the help of his own blood he drained and put in bottles for 1000s of years. And becoming a, (quote) "powerful lich".
i disapprove of the anti-orcish propaganda at the beginning of the video...
Orcs are friends, not fodder.
well just to let you know, the Orcs in the Elder Scroll universe are more akin to Elves...
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaahg
KELLSCAR the chosen WAAAAAAAAGGHH
The only way to stop a bad guy with a black soul gem is a good guy with a black soul gem. 😎
I read in one of the books (can't remember which) that necromancy could raise the dead by binding a lesser Daedra to the corpse instead of using the soul
One other thing about Redguards, is the fact that, at least in Elder Scrolls Online, it is mentioned that they do not dare to fight the undead, only the Ash'abah kill them. That's why necromancers are a huge threat to them, because almost no one in Hammerfell can fight them.
at least Necros do not get Orc hair cuts