The Anti-Trads Are Getting Desperate
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- čas přidán 1. 04. 2024
- This whole anti trad movement is getting out of hand
Part of me thinks
This is nothing more than a lame attempt at damage control.
To prevent people who are sick and tired of the novus ordo from looking to tradition and traditional groups as a remedy
Because mass attendance has declined in the novus ordo over the last several years and the trad groups are growing.
So they set up this scare tactic giving people the most fringe stories that could happen in any religious group, making it look like they are the norm for trad groups
Am I saying that I believe this is a coordinated effort and not a genuine grass roots movement.
Well, That's what I suspect.
And I have for a long time. Although I can't say that for sure
If the TLM is abuse, consider me a masochist
"Thank you, Sir. May I have another?"
Hello fellow masochist
The Latin Mass is what converted me. The Novus Ordo is a fruitless mass. Most bad ideas in the Church don't last more than 100 years. The NO is only 54 years old, and it's dying along with the boomers that created it with the exception of a few that ,for whatever reason, like it. I doubt it will last another 50 years.
The Latin Mass saved me. I converted to Catholicism three years ago. Two years later our church closed. We went to other churches and many reminded me of the Methodist Church I grew up in or other Protestant churches I attended over the years. The Norvus Ordo is lackluster and I feel hanging on by a thread trying to bring in a lot of hoopla that just does not resonate with me. I like the reverence demonstrated by all at the Latin Mass.
Jesus is on the altar at the novus ordo. Are you saying He is fruitless? The boomers did not create the Mass.
The ordinary mass is not going anywhere. The amount of Catholic faithful as exponentially increased since the NO was introduced. Do you honestly think Jesus is more or less present in the Eucharist at a Latin Mass compared to a Novus Ordo? The Latin Mass isn't what the apostles practiced, and it isn't what many Catholics today practice. It is merely one of many practices of the Church that has been instituted and later changed over time. You should worship Jesus, not worship the mass itself.
I wouldn't say it is "fruitless." I attend the NO masses, and it has seen the conversion of myself, my grown sons, my wife getting back into her cradle faith, regular full attendances and recent conirmations this Easter. Yes, it has its problems, but I wouldn't say it hasn't had its 'fruits' with which to celebrate.
Baby Boomers did not create the Novus Ordo.
The general propaganda of anti-Traditionalism among Novus Ordo attendees around me (yes, I admit I go to NO, I am an organist for my local parish), only leads me to believe that Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre was right to do what he did, and the general disproval of his “schismatic” consecrations…it only leads me to believe the Good Archbishop was motivated by love of the Catholic Faith and Tradition, and he passed that on to the next generation. How can one NOT be moved to tears by this?
I also attend N.O., though I am very supportive Traditionalists. I occasionally go to TLM in another diocese, and was surprised when friends in my parish do the same!
I wonder how many stealth TLM people there are...
@JackFalltrades , I'm from the MCSPX recognize and resist.
And NFP is a mortal sin. That's for sure.
@@X.Z.-Qutewhat's mcspx?
@@JackFalltradesIt seems to be a growing a phenomenon in light of how disillusioned people are becoming with establishment systems, people are “testing the waters” while trying to figure out the mess we’re going through. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are quite a number that are going through this.
Sir, your channel has helped me a lot in my faith journey, keep up the good work.
Please pray for my family to attend the traditional Latin mass, they refuse to even go and try it. 🛐✝️
I would be more concerned about sacramental validity in the NO.
Yikes
Good point. I went to a N.O. Mass a while back where the priest inserted his own words during the Consecration! He said all the right words, but added his own!
I was horrified, the woman in front of me loved it. She turned to me and said, "I want to move to _his_ parish!
It's mind boggling how that doesn't bother her but the growing number of trads do?? It's just bad will from them at this point.
Thank you for speaking up for those of us who have had our faith strengthened and enriched by the TLM. The TLM and the traditional practices have been my “pearl of great price”.
Just like the Na zis. They have to keep repeating the lie.
Belladicta Thank you for sharing Kim 🙏🏻♥️✝️🛐
@@themechanic7625 yw. Thx for watching
The only group I've encountered in the Church that thinks itself superior is the Charismatic Movement. Maybe she needs a Charismatic Recovery group.
This right here, the Charismatics are probably THE most volatile and dangerous current within the church today.
She's a bitter lib
They’ve been desperate since the original modernists like Tyrrell SJ
I think there wouldn't be so much tension if TLM was allowed instead of being banned in more and more dioceses.
Let both masses freely exist and a lot of the rancor will diminish.
Novas Ordo mass goer here. This woman does not represent all of us.
I think her job is to frighten NO goers from ever considering going to a traditional mass and switching parishes. That this fairly-obvious astroturf movement is being proped up as fiducia supplicans and more documents that are on the way is pretty telling.
I've gone to multiple latin masses of all types. There are 7 within an hour drive of me of nearly all kinds (no cmri etc, only 1 sede parish). None were cultish or anything weird. In most cases, people attend some chat a bit outside & then go home.
I think there's beauty in the NO and in the Latin mass, if the priest knows how to celebrate the mass well and has good homilies.
The best way I can think of to fight this isn’t necessarily to join the debate. I think it would be much more effective to just keep attending the TLM. Keep praying the rosary. Keep wearing the brown scapular. Invite your friends and family to the TLM. The point being, keep living your life as Christ instructed, and utilize the church he gave to us. Most importantly, be the light the Christ sent us to be. That’s how we win.
Excellent advice 👍
Yes this whole thing its sad, and i dont think its traditionalists bashing modernism, its the other way around, we now have youtubers whose only focus is to bash traditional catolicism and most precisely the fsspx, theres that Salza guy that seems to be the champion of anti sspx retoric, well his a former(?) high degree freemason, and this is exactly the critique that Marcel Lefebvre did to this new church, so in my eyes this only reenforces the message that Marcel Lefebre was and his rigth.
Me: So going to the SSPX is sinful and I should confess that?
Them: YES get out of there man
Me: Can I confess that sin to my SSPX priest whom I go to for spiritual direction? He has "valid" jurisdiction now via the pope.
Them: ......
😂
Well they would believe a novus ordo is sinful so you’d probably have to confess that
😂😂😂
@@okj9060 I've never heard that the Society thinks the Missal of Paul VI is sinful on its face but moreso an occasion for sin and potential spiritual harm for some, to which I would agree. They do include attendance at those Masses to be a subject of their examination of conscience in their prayer books, but those books in particular were developed for lay people attending SSPX lead retreats. It's understandable they would caution the Faithful on regular attendance to a liturgy that could retard one's spiritual progress.
@@PiusPaladinThe SSPX advises you not to attend TLM's said by the FSSP, Institute, and Diocesan. I left the SSPX and now attend a Diocesan TLM. My brother was also wanting to go but my mom made him ask a priest, one priest said it was fine and another said it wasn't so now my mom won't let my brother go
I am a happy rad trad. Thank you.
Tradition is the future
I challenge these anti-Latin Mass critics to go and attend the Latin Mass for at least a month. Make sure to attend both the Low and the High Masses. And then come back and tell us honestly in our faces your experience if we are crazy.
Alot of them don't like the idea of veiling or dressing appropriately, in the first place , so they'll rather tell you it's oppressive to women like the true liberals they are
Dude, many of us still go to the TLM
there is a chasm , a world apart from each other. One is holy , one is not as much. One is quiet and reverent with time to pray. The other is definitely NOT quiet, with very little time to contemplate.
The only reason I'm in NO is because it's simply near me and convient to go to. I pray one day I can attend a TLM at least once.
She is running an unlicensed “therapy” program. I’ve yet to see any evidence that the “Trad recovery program” provides services from licensed therapists, counselors, psychologists or social workers.
Pray for her and others who say these things
i always read your channel name as "I miss chrysostom" and I'm like me too! and then I realize it's "i miss christendom" and I'm still like me too! haha nice channel name all in all
Yes. We miss him too. 😊
This stuff is ridiculous. My home parish is a NO albeit traditional with all of the smells/bells, communion rails, ad orientum, communion on the tongue, beautiful gregorian chant, all of it. I also go to a diocesan TLM, a FSSP, an ICKSP for daily mass depending upon my schedule. Our priest literally goes to an SSPX chapel for confession as a way of fostering communion. The ICKSP canon will come to our parish for confession, a local byzantine parish priest will come to our parish for confession, etc. We're all on the same team, we're all moving towards the same direction. Though one celebrates the NO, a few others the TLM, and then the other the divine liturgy we are ALL trad, love the faith and want to save souls. Enough with the painting the trads as evil of course there are schismatics but most just want to get to heaven, get their families to heaven and evangelize others.
Unfortunately, your "unicorn" NO is not what happens in the other 99.99% of NO parishes.
@@analog_joe I am sorry you're this angry where it seems like you're lashing out at me while I am saying I am for the TLM. In other words... I am on your side.
@@jacobwoods6153 not angry, just saying that the whole concept of the reverent NO is an exception to the rule..
@@analog_joe That's fine just reconsider how you type things on YT comment sections because it comes across as you're just a pissed off trad and that plays right into the stereotypical view of the trads (and I'm more of a trad btw). I grant that they're the exception to the rule, but I would say that things are moving in the right direction. I know of other NO's that have ad orientum and more reverence. My roommate travels all over the country he's literally hit 98% of the counties in the U.S. including Alaska and Hawaii lol, he is also Catholic and he's saying that he is coming across a lot more reverent NO's then what is assumed out there. Coupled with the fact that the young priests/seminarians are orthodox/conservative/trad things are going to look good when they replace the current hierarchy. We are called to suffer, like Fr Ripperger says, we get the hierarchy that we deserve, so keep praying, keep sacrificing, etc and things will get better (I've given concrete examples). Complaining will not do you any good, it'll just piss you off, it won't change a thing where prayer and sacrifice actually does plus complaining is effeminate behavior (ive been one to complain about the situation in the Church).
@@jacobwoods6153 The reverent NO is an exception to what is prescribed in the General Instruction on The Roman Missal (GI). Actually, the irreverence and the liturgical abuses are implicitly, and I want to stress out the word implicitly, codified in the GI. There is no reverent NO because it wasn't designed to be reverent in the first place; any reverent NO Masses that occur out there are an anomaly and no the other way around. In fact, the priests who celebrate a NO Mass as you described are not doing what the GI stipulates: there are no hard rubrics and improvisation is explicitly promoted. Read Fr. Cekada's book for irrefutable evidence on this. On the other hand, I could care less if people like "Ms. Happy Catholic" think that I am a stereotypical angry rad-trad; they are one of the reasons why we are in this mess, and they already think we are all angry rad-trads, hence the the nickname "Happy Catholic" as a mockery of us traditionalists. In fact, I've noticed even more vitriolic hatred from liberal Catholics who throw out slurs like "schismatic" or "disobedient" at us and who chastise us every time. So, again, don't care if I am perceived as an angry rad-trad stereotype.
She's happy with her Protestant songs being sung in the Novus Ordo Mass?
I think it really depends upon the protestant song.
@@catforhire2931:
There should not be any Protestant songs at all in a Catholic Church we have so many beautiful Catholic hymns and chants already!
Martin Luther was a deranged lustful heretic, but I'll take "I am the Bread of Life" or "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God" over an insipid song like "On Eagles Wings" written by a Jesuit, any day
@@alhilford2345 Most of the songs I hear were composed by a homosexual ex-Jesuit, Dan Schutte.
Honestly I go to a NO Mass that is very traditional. They use incense, the women wear veils, they have traditional music, and they even say the Saint Michael the archangel prayer at the end of every mass.. It's actually beautiful. I was shocked when I found this mass. I believe this is the way that the NO mass was meant to be.
The Bible says the church would be but a remnant in latter days. Our lady of Fatima told the pope to read the letter in 1960 (2 years before Vatican 2). And she came again in 1961 in Garabandal to warn them again of the terrible council and how it would lead souls to hell. The TLM is the remnant church.
Its criminal someone would scanadize the church like this.
Viva Cristo Rey 👑
Very nicely summarized sir. Great points with honesty. Pax Christi.
Oh my! I think it's the reverse. I get shocked by what my more modernist Catholic brothers and sisters say and do. I have no Latin Mass to go to because it is not offered near me. I would be lost in it anyway because I only went to one and did not know the Latin responses. I'm a convert after Vatican II. I wish I had a Catholic friend to help me with the Latin Mass but I moved to a small town and don't know a soul. Anyway, I think we all get hurt at times by fellow parishioners. I did and by a priest too and that was at a Novus Ordo. We are all human and just need to be kind no matter what Mass a person prefers. I have a traditional Catholic mindset. I always wear a veil to Mass and get stared at but I think it is the right thing to do.
Good for you. I'm a UK octogenarian and can no longer reach the church I started going to over 60 years ago, so I have to go to a nearby parish church. At first I was disturbed by some of the things there. But I now try to see them as a new form of everyday-life mortification that can be endured and offered to the greater glory of God. A possible disadvantage of this is that although I shall continue to prefer that some things were not so, at some stage they may cease to provide any element of suffering. I may have to look for a hairshirt instead.
@@christopher4192 Thank you for telling me what you do with what you have to suffer through at your nearby parish church. I will offer up the suffering I have to endure at my parish church, the stares because I am the only one wearing a veil, the feeling of loneliness at that parish, the lack of a spiritual director, and so on. I will offer up what I endure for
God's glory. I wish I had thought of that before. Thank you.
@@candaceorr7517 Thank you very much for your reply. It's good to know that I can still do something useful! I can't now remember where I first came across this general idea, but you would certainly find it in a series of daily meditations with the title 'In Conversation with God' by Francis Fernandez, published by Scepter. There are seven books in all, but I think they can be bought separately. Book 2 (for Lent and Eastertide) is the one that's relevant at tthe moment. It will take you up to Pentecost Sunday. After that, Book 3 takes over for Ordinary Time, weeks 1-12. What's most impressive about the whole series is its attention to traditional beliefs and its thoroughly practical approach. Happy reading! I hope you find them useful.
Outstanding video! I’m SO glad you pointed out each and every mischaracterization and downright misrepresentation/possible willful lie.
Miss Happy Catholic wants people to think leaving a traditional Catholic community is similar to the experience of ex-Muslims in Afghanistan.
If this woman would read first Timothy she wouldn't be talking at all "But I suufer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence" 1 Timothy 2:12. She needs confession and prayers and to stop throwing stones.
Oh boy this poor woman. Terrible things in these groups!! You mean sexual abuse? What the heck is she talking about.
Why oh why are we all divided and bickering one another? Just causes anger confusion and a further divide. Do what we Catholics do best and pray for one another. God Bless
Thumbs up on this vid just for calling out " MrsHappyCatholic". She is in league with Andrew Bartell, John Salza, Michael Lofton, etc. They are the "boots on the ground " doing the work of upending true Catholic tradition/faith in the name of love of the Church. They make up the mouthpiece of great pretenders' club as the Apostasy roles on. The only road to restoration = restoring Catholic Tradition. May the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary reign forever!
The Novus Ordo *is* spiritual trauma.
Have you ever been to a novus ordi
I think if you ban her from mentioning the words "Traditional Latin Mass" she would have no content at all. Almost all her videos are about the TLM
The SSPX did not possess jurisdiction for Confession or Marriages until Pope Francis granted them those faculties (conditionally, in the case of Marriage) very recently. Up until that time they used the argument of Supplied Jurisdiction to claim that they had the capacity to celebrate those sacraments validly (which they did not have). They have still never publicly acknowledged that for 40 years they pretended to be absolving and marrying people, knowing the whole time that those sacraments were not valid, yet now they point to the permission of the Pope and say, "What doubts can you have on our account now? We are fully legitimized." as if there is nothing further to be said! The other sacraments they exercise validly, but illicitly and consequently sacrilegiously. To participate/communicate in their sacraments, offered against the permission of the Church and with no mission - either ordinary or extraordinary - and directly contrary to their state of clerical suspension which has never been lifted, is a mortal sin on the part of the faithful.
Isn't that a serious problem that we should speak up against?
Yes, the liberals are causing serious problems on their side, and abuses happen within their ranks. No one is denying that - but we see grave dangers on the ultra-conservative side, as well. Different people are called to counter varying problems that they see hurting the souls and lives of others, and in my case that is helping people who have been damaged in their time in Traditionalism. That doesn't level a judgment against anyone else's ministry, or allege that the only important problems are those extant within Trad groups.
My friend Andy M and I - in the video you mentioned - were not intending to spread misinformation. Because of my own immersion in these issues I sometimes forget to clarify things and assume the listener is acquainted with the basic facts of the case, for which I apologize in that case for not having made things more clear as to what the present state of affairs is in the case of the SSPX and jurisdiction. But the point of bringing that into our discussion was to show the strange attempts of the SSPX used to justify themselves, which do not actually hold water. We encourage people to question the logic of what they are told and not just to imbibe it without further analysis, as in a case like the one we are discussing that can be a very dangerous thing to do.
I get being so immersed that you think everyone has the same info you do. So I can understand. But what's the point?
It's like you guys have this nostalgia for the time when the sspx was in trouble. So you act like nothing's changed since the 90s until you're forced to.
Ecclesia Dei afflicta has been abrogated. So it doesn't matter what JP2 said. I'm sorry but it doesn't. The excommunications were lifted yet critics constantly bring it up.
Suspended priests can not recieve faculties
The sspx does have faculties.
As far as those faculties being "conditional"
The faculties of every priest are conditional and be revoked.
As far as the SSPX “ pretending” in the past, putting other people's souls in danger, the code of canon law makes it clear this is not the case.
Code of canon law 844
§2. Whenever necessity requires it or true spiritual advantage suggests it, and provided that danger of error or of indifferentism is avoided, the Christian faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a Catholic minister are permitted to receive the sacraments of penance, Eucharist, and anointing of the sick from non-
Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid
Canon 1335 says:
2. If a censure prohibits the celebration of the sacraments or sacramentals or the performing of acts of the power of governance, the prohibition is suspended whenever this is necessary to provide for the faithful who are in danger of death. If a latae sententiae censure has not been declared, the prohibition is also suspended whenever one of the faithful requests a sacrament or sacramental or an act of the power of governance; for any just reason it is lawful to make such a request.
I think they call that Supplied jurisdiction
Laura, I deleted your last post because you linked to other peoples work, and I do not allow that
I made a video about you, and I believe you had the right to respond. Which you have. I will not get into an endless debate with you.
I usually dont allow lengthy comments, but I did make an exception in your case for the above stated reason.
I will address one objection you brought up in the deleted post.
" how can I say that ecclesia dei adflicta was abrogated"
Well, the same document that lifted the excommunications of the 4 bishops also says this:
"At the same time I declare that, as of today's date, the Decree issued at that time (ecclesia dei adflicta) no longer has juridical effect."
Perhaps abrogated is the wrong term. But its clear that ecclesia dei adflicta is no longer binding
I watched a video of yours for the first time today. It was interesting and so I clicked on the next suggestion which is this video.
In reading these comments my mind is spinning. Looks like you started something that you are unwilling to finish, controlling the narrative lest perhaps you are put in a mode of surrender. I wonder, is it Truth you seek?
You're motivés are unclear.
@@thepriorpost24 Thanks. I can tell when I'm not getting anywhere in a discussion, so I stopped responding. Also, I had an informative comment in response to the above thread that was deleted by the channel owner. Since I'm not allowed to make a response in full (because I included a link in my answer, not knowing that wasn't allowed in comments on this channel) part of my response was censored. If you want to understand further, you can find my email address on my video descriptions over at my channel, misshappycatholic
@@mrshappycatholic my comment was intended for the maker of this video not you Laura. I was mind blown that he was censoring your responses and controlling the discussion, red flags are waiving
MrsHappyCatholic doesn't really seem that happy.
6:08... What?????? Are we even in the same planet?
I recently have been wondering if we should consider Popes who do heretical things such as allow Hindus and Muslims to worship in the Vatican, are they still Popes or did they abandon their faith. Is Pope Francis the Pope I wonder?
They are validly ordained popes. Jesus said the gates of hell won’t prevail against the church. So they are popes. Don’t be a sede
@okj9060 good point, but let's say the Pope denies the resurrection? At what point do we say the Pope abandoned their faith
@@AM-iy6qe If he manifests a heresy and infallibly states a heresy in public via Ex cathedra, than yes, he would have to be removed. The Pope has not done that. He has made poor decisions, but there are no doctrinal changes that were made that are heretical from an infallible position.
As a brand new catholic I am becoming increasingly aware of (and saddened by) the seeming "tribalization" of the church. Why can't we just concentrate on mass/confession/rosary (or other devotion)/fasting/reparation - you know, the basic "catholic" things our Lady suggested in many, many apparitions.
Well that's the very issue...what IS the Mass? And thus, is the Novus Ordo problematic? It's a very basic but important question. It's not about tribalism, it's about truth.
"Why can't we just concentrate on..." That is exactly what Traditional Mass attendees do. Conentrate on Catholicism.
There aren't different versions of Catholicism, but there is only one Faith from Saint Paul down to Saint Padre Pio. And this modern confusion is the result of those who seek to reconcile the Apostolic Faith with liberalism, which became especially empowered by the pastoral council of Vatican II that recognized the right of religious freedom (rather than simple tolerance of false religions) and ecumenism.
By all means, focus on the spiritual life. If only we could have peace in the church and easy access to traditional sacraments. Even in Christ's time, however, there were serious divisions in the leadership between Pharisees and Sadducees...
You can. Go for Jesus Christ and you can't go wrong. A lot of this is caused by social media and clickbait. This Happy Catholic woman sounds nuts!
I attend a novus ordo roman rite mass in the Church of England which is better than 99% of RC novus ordo masses (and even a few TLMs) I've attended. We have a huge problem with a total absence of clergy discipline in belief and worship, but the plus side is that trad priests can get away with saying a wonderfully reverent mass and preaching the faith undefiled
Bet this lady is among the handful of Americans who really voted for Biden in the last presidential election.
Haha, I was wondering the same thing myself
She literally put out a video praising Trump… so clearly you are delusional
@@nomassgoer8350misdirection is a thing the devil and trad enemies of the Church employ. "Hey how about that great Mr. T and Biden oof... am I right my fellow Catholics"
She is very conservative.
@mycatholicexperience8409 Not that much if she is against Tradition.
Jesus said, John 15: [18] "If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. The NO is of this world, created by Modernists, and so it goes and so it goes. Jesus also says to pray for our enemies, and so we do. Deo Gratias.
It'd be interesting to see you funds her and or these types of groups. Who's funding that upcoming recovery get together. Looking at her nose, maybe she's a converso...Why giver her the benefit of the doubt? Yes, "anything is possible" with certain groups but I wouldn't assume her heart is in the right place. She's acting like an enemy, treat her as one.
What? Whoever these people are or maybe would be traumatized with most anything.
This woman is nutzz
The infallible Council of Trent is the remedy for the whole Church.
Yes it is! Heretics from novus ordo can't defeat.
Trent quite explicitly condemns the actions of traditionalists on multiple occasions. Awkward.
@@andym5995 , what a load of dihonesty!
@@X.Z.-Qute uh nope. Trent very explicitly forbids wandering priests from administering sacraments without the bishop’s permission, bishops from operating in another bishop’s diocese without his permission, publicly ministering without a canonical mission, etc. I could go on.
@@andym5995 , heretical bishops and priests have no authority. Leading millions to hell with that NFP heresy.
I agree with everything you’ve said but I’ve heard some pretty crazy stuff about SSPV.
There have been plenty of women show up for TLM without veils, wearing casual clothing, etc. I have never experienced any dislike or snarkiness towards any of them.
I am forever grateful to Archbishop Lefebvre and the SSPX for the opportunity to rekindle my traditional faith from the 1950s. After wandering in the desert of the Vatican II Novus Ordo world for about 40 years, I have rediscovered the fresh oasis of the True Faith. Deo gratias!
Thank you for calling out this young naive woman.
It’s the reality that people are waking up to the problems with the noves ordo and what Rome has been doing. This is why we see so many traditional groups growing and Rome even realizes that if they were to ban the Latin mass completely people will come to the SSPX for the holy mass.
Thank you for your reasoned and not bombastic approach to the struggles we're facing.
I think both traditionalist and novus ordo groups have peculiar abd unique defects, vices, and issues. I love the TLM, but I also have some issues with some types of traditionalists who go too far when doing this towards the Ordus Novo. I agree there are some who push against traditional movements and they end up telling lies to 'make a point'.
She keeps looking to her right while talking A sign of deceit.
your channel is great, please keep it up
I wonder if she has a huge recovery group following? Why was she keep looking sideways making statements like they are being in "danger"? lol!
Her channel has about 3000 followers
I was taught when you keep looking away when talking, you're lying... just look at people telling the truth...like Tucker.
she probably wants in on the gravy train that mike lofton is on
@@phyllisn2755unless you’re autistic, like me, then it’s reversed 😅
TLM 4EVER YES!
BET SHE NEVER ATTENDED ONE!
DOMINUS VOBISCUM
Thank you Sir for your clear concrete expose and clarification, love your videos , clear to the point and honest VIVA CRISTO REY Y SANTA MARIA DE GUADALUPE
What are your thoughts on the Eastern rites like the Byzantine rite?
That guy doesn't sound gay or anything...Happy Catholic sounds crazy. She's probably an agent or from California.
As a Filipino 🇵🇭 I'm OKAY with the Norvus Ordo Mass. Because I don't understand Latin, although it can be said that a Mass said in Latin is wonderful and beautiful.
Don't worry, God understands Latin.
@@johncalla2151 I'm a Filipino 🇵🇭 and I don't think that *ONLY* the Traditional Latin Mass would work on a worldwide scale.
Latin on one side of the missal and vernacular on the other side. Yes, only the Latin Mass works on a worldwide scale for that reason.
@@paulperrone4698 I'm okay on celebrating the Traditional Latin Mass but on a Vernacular language, or a street language.
Presumably you mean your vernacular language. Latin which is universal unites them all. It also doesn’t change and is precise. No vernacular can be universal. They are still “fixing” the English and various translations…you need both. Latin and vernacular side by side. But the prayers in the Latin missal are beautiful and unique, and yes you get them in Latin and your vernacular. Get a 1962 Missal and see the difference.
💯 spot on
Calling yourself a "Trad" is begging to cause division. We're all Catholic...so just leave it at that.
I hate the division being caused by both sides, (there shouldn't be sides) and neither of these videos help the matter, but only feed the fire for further destruction
The recognize and resist trad catholicism is the correct move.
Just a note on your comments regarding your opinion that the sexual abuse rate within trad circles is less than that within the mainstream "novus ordo" Church: I have a good friend who operates an international support network specifically for sex abuse victims of trad clergy, predominantly SSPX. One example from their findings is that 25% of the SSPX priests currently serving in the US have several credible claims reported against each.
General statistics regarding abuse victims is that only up to 20% will ever come public about the abuse they have suffered. That is a staggering number of predatory clerics, when you do the math.
These people helping victims are not sensationalist scandal-mongers, but well-meaning, balanced Catholics who are trying to help people whose lives have been broken by predatory clergy, nuns, and laity who attend these Traditionalist communities heal and hang on to their faith.
The TLM communities have been saying for decades that they didn't have these problems, only the mainstream Church did "because of the Novus Ordo", and yet the scandals among Trad groups are becoming more and more public as time goes by, discounting that claim completely.
You're right that the percentage of clergy in the mainstream Church is comparable (or less, honestly, when you compare it to statistics of teachers in the school system abusing their students, for instance) to other groups. But this is not the case when you come to groups like the SSPX, or the CMRI under Schuckardt, for instance. Their ratio of incidents of abuse compared to the size of their group is substantially higher. People need to know this in order to protect their families. What has at first the appearance of goodness can turn out to be hiding something very insidious.
I understand there are many well-meaning individuals among the adherents and clergy of these Trad groups, within and without the Church, and I consider them also to be victims of the deception that others have subjected them to - others who have an agenda that is not truly the salvation of souls. It's hard to wrap your mind around the fact that some people can be so evil, but it is in fact a reality, and I could not live with myself if I stood by and watched more people get sucked into their snares without saying a word.
Laura, you seem like a nice person. But quite frankly
“25% of SSPX priests have credible allegations against them”
is insane.
Especially since I did some digging, and this is through the internet for what its worth, but I found only a handful of sspx priests have ever even been accused. And according to Wikipedia, again for what that's worth, only 3 have gone to jail.
Compared to how many in the novus ordo?
This is what we can verify. Not “ believe me most don't come forward”
That's what you claim. But you offer no concrete evidence to back that up. It's
" trust me"
Well, sorry, but I dont trust you.
And how do you vet your guests to make sure they aren't lying?
Or is it-
If its anti-trad you put them on
I was listening to one of your videos and this guy was claiming that the sspx told his wife to leave him, they were all homosexual pedos, involved with drugs and his wife was in cahoots with them.
And I smelled BS a mile away.
People do lie to get attention, sympathy or they have an ax to grind.
Did you even try to contact the wife to get her side of the story?
@@imisschristendom5293 Going by the court records you will find a bare fraction of the allegations, since the statute of limitations in most states does not allow for litigation to be brought against a predator after a certain number of years has passed, often no more than 5, where most victims are too frightened or ashamed to report immediately the abuse they have suffered. If they catch wind in time, the SSPX will send their predator priests to Australia so they cant be extradited and tried for criminal charges. They have an insidious history of taking known predators and merely moving them from one parish or school assignment to another, where the predation continues, and nothing is done to prevent it other than perhaps a "year of penance" and then putting them right back into ministry. They don't even take care of their own priests who need clinical help and protection from themselves let alone further potential victims who could be harmed! I'm not digging up these stories in an effort to make the Society look bad. They come from people i know to be trustworthy and who have ample experience in these matters. Not all their information is publicly available on the internet, and they are helping people who for good reason are terrified to make their situations public. These people have received death threats, sometimes on multiple occasions, for the work they do. Believe me, they're not sticking their necks out for the sake of sensationalism or slander.
Statute of limitations in most states for statutory rape was about 10 years in 1990s, they began going up to 15, 20, 30 years through the 2000's and 2010's. Now most states have no statute of limitations, and some have made that retroactive. Sorry, but that argument doesn't hold.
The rest, the whole bit about Australia etc.., you got from the individual I referenced earlier.
A whole lot of unproven, unsubstantiated claims.
Again, im not these things dont happen, or these people are lying.
But, How easy would it be for someone to start a youtube channel, put victim after victim of novus ordo priests on.
Then say all Catholic priests are pedophiles, stay away from the Catholic church.
Very easy. Several have done it.
Are those people lying? Maybe some are, but probably most arent.
Is the conclusion correct? No.
Does the host of that channel have an agenda? Yes.
Is the host of that channel setting up a false narative? Yes
You made a wild claim that 25% of sspx priest in the US have credible allegations against them. Yet, the stats do not support this. And you offer no tangible proof. But make no mistake you have the burden of proof.
Credible allegations means police reports.
But then you say:
" 20% do not come forward. "
So the most we can prove with this claim ( Im not saying I accept it. Again, you've offered no evidence to support it.) is around 4 to 5 % the exact same as in the novus ordo.
Saying 20% do not come forward, well, you could say the same about the novus ordo.
So the reality is the problem isnt worse in trad groups than in the novus ordo.
In fact I would probably say its worse in the novus ordo.
On the contrary Ive had terrible heretical advice meant to unnecessarily traumatise me from Novus ordo 'priest' that completely contradicted the council of Trent. Absolutely awful "advice". How can someone be catholic and not 'traditional'?
The traditional Latin mass will convert the Jews , not the novus ordo
Trad Recov be like: If you a friend or a family member has been diagnosed with sedevacantism or been exposed to the schismatic SSPX and FSSP, you may be entitled to financial compensation
"Magisterium of Vatican II" what does that even mean?
Um.... what? You do realize that Vatican II was Magisterial, right?
Is her name miss happy Catholic ? Like for the podcast ? She doesn’t seem happy.
Yes.
What the devil trying to do is obvious...the devil deceive people... they feel to be a Good Christian but in reality & spiritualy they are astray....sed libera nos amalo 🙏
What causes kids to leave the Church at Novus Ordo parishes?
Basically its the feeling that everyone is going tovheaven anyway. If you dont have to be Catholic to be saved, most people wont be Catholic
@@imisschristendom5293while I understand and support that position, I think Our Lord will have more patience for the sheep who delude themselves into believing Hell is empty, then the Pharisees who fiercely double-down on the assertion that Heaven is empty.
@@imisschristendom5293 what? did Pope say Talmudic Jews get saved without Jesus or what?
@UrielAngeli147 Who said Heaven is empty?
@@imisschristendom5293 I see. I wish I had the Tridentine close to me, but I don’t. Every Mass has guitars and such and our Easter Mass was disappointing. On a more positive note, your channel helped me in my conversion, and when I fell away for several months because of the modernists, you brought me back. I went to confession and am now back in good standing. Thank you very much and God Bless!
I don’t appreciate you bringing my children into this. I’m sorry you’re upset about your children losing the faith, but there is no need to make it personal and make public assumptions and predictions about my family and our life of faith.
I have never wanted to “shut down the debate” as you say; I have engaged in public debate and discussions on this subject with people on both sides, while people like Kennedy Hall are constantly trying to declare that the debate is over and everything is settled.
I would be happy to come on your channel and have a discussion with you, if you like. It’s easy to be unkind toward people we disagree with and are not talking to or interacting with on a more human level. I wish you the best during this holy paschal season.
Perhaps that was too far. Perhaps I shouldn't have named names with that point, and made more of a generic statement.
For that I apologize.
I am open to "dialogue". Though my schedule is busy.
If you want to email me to make future arrangements/ exchange contact info etc..
Its
imisschristendom@gmail.com
Thank you and happy Easter to you too.
Thank you for your apology, I forgive you. Cheers!
Not all trads are of European descent!
She probably heard someone say that Jesus is truly present in the Eucharist or that abortion is intrinsically evil, or maybe it was that some said that SS acts are intrinsically evil. Or that marriage is forever. I think that's what triggered her you know the teachings of the Church.
Correction: it’s not “Radical Traditionalist” Catholics, but “Taliban” Catholics!
Its peculiar to see all of you brothers and sisters starting to show your true colors when a group starts showing the rotten fruits you have been either ignoring or trying to hide for so long.. and i must admit they are not fruitful colors by resorting to lies..
May God enlighten all your hearts toward His Kingship.
Laura "Vander" was it? Sounds like one of these Trent Horn Catholics. Theyre not worried about fidelity to the liturgy its something else i suspect.
Would you say McCarrick was a traditionalist or a NO type? What about Fr Rupnik? Cardinal Fernandez? [I don't think he's been credibly accused of anything, but the man wrote a book about the sexual fantasies of a teenage girl. Either he a) broke the seal of Confession in the most public manner imaginable short of a press conference, b) freely discussed sex with teenage girls, or c) spent a lot of time fantasizing himself.]
Pot, meet Kettle.
I attend my local NO most days as the closest TLM is 2+ hrs away. You don't know how much I wish it were closer.
+JMJ. The use of the phrase "Trad Recovery" is nothing more than anti-Catholic bigotry tinged with mockery and hate. O Virgin Mother of God, we fly to your protection and beg your intercession against the darkness and sin which ever more envelop the world and menace the Church.
I notice that a lot of these militant Novus Ordo defenders are former Protestants and in many ways still are. The Novus Ordo is not much different from their previous Protestant church and when they hear about how things were done before Vatican 2 they lash out.
This comment section kinda proves Pope Francis’s point. I’ve seen comments saying the NO is fruitless and irreverent even though I was literally converted by a NO mass. Not all NO are irreverent.. The Latin mass is beautiful but NOT the only way. We have other rites too, shall they conform to the Latin mass as well? No they don’t have to. The only way traditional Catholicism can succeed peacefully is if trads don’t bash the Novus ordo. When the Latin mass parish in my diocese got temporarily shut down, it wasn’t because the bishop was an anti trad or hated the Latin mass, it was because there was a homily bashing the Novus ordo which Most Catholics attend. How can you be in good communion with the Church and bash the majority of it? You can’t. How about we all approach this with love to each other and not hating on each mass? We are supposed to act like Christians and be gentle and love each other
The NO is clearly displeasing to God and has destroyed the faith of Catholics and you're saying we shouldn't discuss this because people might get offended? Really? How many particles of the Blessed Sacrament are being trampled in almost every NO parish...? To which somebody will say, "But...! It's licit! Rome says it's okay to receive on the hand!" That bishop that shut down the Latin Mass because the priest was a meanie-head, is he shutting down communion in the hand to prevent sacrilege? Or he's going to let that outrage slide and look the other way...?
The scrouge of humanity are educated, middle class, married Caucasian women. Which of these boxes does she check?
Oh, you mean "Karens"! 😀
Indoctrinated more than educated
I miss Christendom what are your thoughts on the Jews sacrificing the red heifer in order to purify themselves and building the 3rd temple?
They follow a dead religion and their practices are superstitious rituals with no meaning. Making a third temple would mean nothing but another way to reject Christ.
Trads cannot be termed as erred.
The only fault is they disobeyed the new instructions from Vatican II.
Deo vindice
She is right because you made me a toxic mean poopie head.
Unsubscribed…thank you. Don’t need another division channel. What a shame…Did your venting help? Go pray and discern if you should go to confession…this is horrible, sad and pathetic.
The Pope has full, immediate and supreme jurisdiction in the Church. Vatican 1 from 1870 is clear.
Trust Jesus and his Church.
She has beautiful Semetic features. Her nose looks like a 6 and those ears...
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Miss Happy "catholic" as Peter Dimond would say
Hi, I’m the guy you showed a clip of. While I admit it could’ve been clearer that we were not talking about their current situation, the fact is, they still rely on “supplied jurisdiction” for all their other sacraments (except EU), and it is indeed wrong to participate sacraments offered illicitly. We can’t just be focused on whether or not they’re valid. You can’t participate in a mass when the priest offering it doesn’t have jurisdiction. My points stand, even if it’s not universally applicable. Bear in mind that not all bishops have allowed them to witness marriages, and they operated under a false defense of supplied jurisdiction for almost 40 years. That’s a big deal.
False. There are situations where a sacrament is illicit but valid. If a Roman rite priest offers Mass using leavened bread, that is illicit* (in that he could be punished by his superior for violating liturgical rules of the Roman rite) but the consecration of the leavened bread is still valid and still results in transsubstantiation. Certainly with confession, if the penitent legitimately believes that the sacrament was valid then they are absolved even if it was not. For example, if you go to confession for a mortal sin, but it turns out that the person you confessed to, who thought was a priest, was not actually a priest, that does not mean you are condemned to hell because that mortal sin was technically not absolved.
* yes, I realize there are exemptions permitting a few small groups in the roman rite to use leavened bread, but assuming none of those apply
@@adrianmizen5070 I think you completely misunderstood what I was saying. Of course sacraments can be illicit but valid (can’t be illicit if it’s invalid to begin with!) What I am saying is, we cannot participate in sacraments offered by a priest who does not have the jurisdiction to do so. That is just as much a sacramental abuse as irreverence.
@@andym5995Assuming you are who you say you are, at 2:55 in this video you said: "If this is so, it would be a sin to receive their services, maybe even to ask for them." Is it a sin to receive a sacrament from a priest who you do not know lacks jurisdiction or lacks faculties? Also at 2:44 you said: "If the priests of the [SSPX] do not have jurisdiction, then it means the confessions they hear and the marriages they bless are invalid." So you were attacking validity, I wasn't misunderstanding it at all.
@@adrianmizen5070 I was quoting the canonical study by one of their priests on their website; the creator of this video left that part out. And again, that did indeed mean that their confessions and marriages were invalid for 40 years.
I call myself a Trad Novus Ordo catholic
I receive communion from the SSPX from time to time I have a friend who attends a chapel regularly
I as a NO Catholic will help you out here that women is spouting bullshit
I like traditional Catholicism, but the SSPX is suspended from performing sacraments. Yeah their sacraments are valid but they are suspended from using them. They are illicit sacraments even though they do have faculties for confession and marriage. They also seem to teach that all novus ordo masses are automatically sinful and that even TLM parishes inside a diocese should be off limits.
You don't know what the blazes you're talking about. SSPX sacraments are valid even according to Francis. As your buddy Mike Lofton would say, go to confession for questioning El Pachapapa.
@@adrianmizen5070 they are valid, but they are illlicit that’s what I said
Francis has granted SSPX priests something he has not done for any other group in the entire Church: universal faculties for confession and witness of marriages anywhere in the world...
Thanks to the internet it is easily looked up that you may fulfill your Sunday obligation at an SSPX mass now according to canon law, and in many dioceses such as Kansas City the bishop even publicly acknowledges this.
Your info is incorrect, my friend. Please put down the dull axe...
@@muztan3100 not a dull axe. You forgot to mention the part that SSPX are SUSPENDED from practicing. Yeah they have valid sacraments but they are unlawful. Read Ecclesia Dei
It seems more like radical traditionalists who follow the sspx and other groups are getting desperate when every trad youtuber feels the need to jump on the bandwagon and bash Laura and the people at Trad Recovery as if you're all somehow being personally attacked. No one is saying there aren't issues and abuses happening within Novus Ordo communities. Many of the members came from the sspx or other groups and many of them still attend the TLM. Only a few of them left the fssp or institute for NO because they were noticing similar issues that are in the other groups. The "what about them" arguments are getting annoying. Someone talks about the problems in trad communities and then theres a knee jerk reaction to bring up the issues in NO communities
Please read the statements and clarifications that TR has put out to get a better idea of its mission. This video, like all of them, seriously mischaracterizes what it is doing.
Perhaps you could summarize, rather than referring us to your website to back up your accusation of dishnonesty. Speaking of which, are there ads on your website?
@@adrianmizen5070 1) We do not malign true Catholic tradition; we are here to help those who have been negatively affected by an ideology masquerading as pious and reverent but is rebellious and obstinate.
2) No
@@andym5995Do you similarly condemn the ideology of demanding submission to papal decrees legitimizing same-sex blessings and giving communion to public adulterers, which masquerades as pious and reverent (with regard to papal infallibility) but is actually rebellious and obstinate to the teaching of the Church across the ages? Or do you just specialize in calling out one so-called "ideology"?
@@adrianmizen5070 why, whenever we state our position, does everyone automatically think we must give the stamp of approval to “the other side” by default?
I like the Latin Mass but I don’t like disobedience and I now see so called trads are not traditional but disobedience and disrespectful!
In short we're hurting your feeling? Boo hoo. And as far as so called disobedience no one, not even Francis, has the authority to ban the Latin Mass.
I deny Jesus
VEry foolish, man, don't do that
Then He shall deny you on judgement day. Good luck with that!
@@Dienekes678 I have a cross and some nails ready for him
You sound like a kid wanting to stir up trouble for fun. Grow up
Well, she's convinced that demons live at 35,000 feet and regularly prays for the "destruction of the airline industry". What more need we say? A few pieces missing on that chessboard.
I dunno man. That's actually kinda based.
@@acekoala457 Please indulge me!