WT - RB Plane Comparisons, BR 2.3 to 2.7
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2016
- I compare the flight characteristics of fighters & identify the most effective planes from each nation, showing their various strengths & weaknesses through a series of tests. Its intended for RB novices and veterans alike - there should be information here to help anyone improve their flying.
This will be followed by a series of videos where I take each of these planes into combat & see what a veteran Arcade player such as myself can do as a "Realistic" battles novice.
The music is by James Stirzaker - this and other compositions can be heard at / jamesstirzaker - Hry
2:26 That list right there shows why Gaijin, if they had any sense, should've hired you immediately you announced RL and financial issues were getting in the way of making more videos. Why on earth put that kind of garbage info into the game? It's pretty much worse than no info at all - at least you'd know that you didn't know. Specific, trustworthy and detailed information, especially on different plane stats, was always one the main things that made your videos unique and must-watch, and now you seem to be doing it better than ever. I don't play RB but I do watch some RB videos, and even with the plethora of RB channels out there, if you can keep this up I think you'll carve out a very important place in that fold of channels. I can only start to imagine the amount of painstaking work this was (the kind of thing I just don't want to spend my precious gaming time doing, yet exactly the kind of info you need to compete). That's why I hope you won't take it as nagging if I ask whether you'll be doing info videos for Arcade once the next patch hits - if the answer is no, I completely understand. Don't burn yourself out! All I'm saying is there's an even greater need for such information when they keep changing things - which isn't even just at the major patches of course; all those ninja updates can leave just as surprising results.
i dont mean to be so off topic but does anybody know of a method to get back into an Instagram account??
I somehow lost my password. I love any tricks you can give me!
@Zaid Dakota Instablaster ;)
nice video with great eye for detail. As per usual :)
Thanks mate, hope its helpful :)
im pretty sure it'll be helpfull to a wide range of people :) even for more experienced rb pilots.
Hi
I like to also add that in my opinion you are underappreciated, I feel you go into far more detail than most other channels and I appreciate it alot. sure the others are just as entertaining and such, but you fill in what they don't. and it's a shame. this video should be hitting 100 k +
Fantastic quality of analysis, Longshot!
the split screens + overlayed charts are amazing and very professionally done.
It is so good to see you again!
Hey Stieglitz! Are you playing RB these days?
Never dared to! But watching your videos as usual gives a great stimulus to try out new things! I am so so glad to see you back!
nice video, it was far more detailed then the last and really helpful fir picking a plane to suit your play style, I can only imagine how much time went into comparing all those planes.
Too much - I need a life :)
When testing roll rates, it might also be helpful to test both regular roll rates (Simply the A or D key's) and a more advanced (I guess) roll rate, In many of the planes I fly, I use the Right rudder, Upwards elevator, and clockwise roll keys to achieve a far higher roll rate than what would normally be possible with just the single A or D key, it does result in higher energy loss, yet I would still advice using it, especially when atempting to make someone over-shoot, it's also not something I see used... well.... ever,
I would highly advice testing this out in the Yak-9T.
you should have given the ki-45 a chance to compete though, it's a lot better then you might expect.
i use this very often as an evasive maneuver, and almost every decent FW 190 pilot does the same, as you are hard to hit while doing it and the speed loss makes it possible for the enemy to overshoot, however, during a turnfight it has little other purposes, as the speed loss will make you lose more often and it is harder to bring the guns on target after doing it.
in fact, it has allowed me to win quite a few air duels against planes with superior speed and an altitude advantage thanks to this evasive roll.
Nice work. Those summary tables are awesome. Make comparing planes a piece of cake. I can't imagine the amount of hours this required. Bravo
As I am being trained as an engineer, I very much appreciate the technical analysis of these planes! This is the type of video I can sink my teeth into. Keep it up long5hot, glad to see you back making videos
As an experienced RB pilot you rarely plays low-tier, i found this video helpful. Keep up the good work!
Wow! Very, very informative. I'll be watching all of this series.
It's so good to see you back again, long5hot!! What a great video! I t would be really nice to see some tactics for RB using the spitfire, Bf109 and yaks... cheers!!
Enjoyed your video as always,
I like that you pay attention to detaills witch are not shown.
I can emagine how much time it takes to put this all together.....
I just wish you had more exposure... SO GUYS PRESS LIKE.......
A good way to counter the Spitfire Mk.1a's horrible roll rate is to engage the rudder at the same time as you are attempting a roll. It takes a bit of practice but it will really flip the plane over much quicker.
long5hot why oh why do you spend so much time making these vids. They're amazingly informative, and this video is a cut above what you've made in the past.
So good to see you back and boy have you upped your game. At last being able to directly compare different aircraft rather than the lousy stats sheets. welcome back!
This video is incredibly helpful! Thank you very much for this in-depth testing. It's also very good that you summarised what the results would mean in actual fights. It greatly helps evaluate how to best use the planes and I'm already looking forward to future entries in this series. It's great to see you're back!
this kind of comparison video is really great. thanks
I am watching the better RB CZcamsrs (MagzTV, OrangeDoom, ...) since years. I am not watching these guys with more clicks, who are just derping around imho.
Is'nt it funny, that it needs an old Arcade CZcamsr to come along and show all these RB guys, what are the basic minimum data which must be shown in every decent WT-video?
I am looking forward to some real combat videos.
Regards Quax0815
PS: If you don't stop, I am afraid I will start flying RB. Even if it is soo damn boring. Thanks for your very professional advise so far.
However, please never stop making Arcade Videos. You know: Arcade is where the real fun and challenge is!
Very good @long5hot, as always!
Glad you are back, and that you are doing some RB stuff too.
*magnificent teaching*
Firstly I am anxious to thank for the work you've done and for the time you've devoted to trying to compare the flight characteristics of this machines.
_please may you compare the flight characteristics of ""bf 109 k4, g10, g14 and g6 and maybe the g2 too"" if it is not too much of a burden to ask please_
i tried to figure out to appraise what should be the difference between this flies machines but i failed, for me are all almost the same thing
thank you again never lose your awesomeness
I'd be happy to compare those planes, but there's a slight problem. Germany is unfortunately my least-advanced nation, I've only gone as far as the Bf109 G-2 and the FW190 D-9 :\
Glad to see you back on, since you taught me to fly the fw 190, i've been dominating, hoping to learn RB through you.
Really superb video, and your "teacher"-voice is back! :D
I'm honestly surprised the Spitfire outclimbs the 109, seeing climbrate is it's main trait (even more in Arcade). Makes me wonder if the Spitfire is UFO...
Looking forward to your RB path in the future. Hopefully when enough guides are out (RB aim guides, defensives, etc) I'll switchover to RB myself.
I don't think an aim guide for RB will be possible, as it mostly comes down to judgement & experience, which comes through practice and repetition. I haven't found it difficult adjusting to that part of the game at all.
Defensive/offensive/dogfighting tactics, well that's another story - but I have to learn them for myself first before making vids on them :)
Spitfires are called "Spacefire" for a reason.
Aiming takes experience, as too many factors affect where you should aim. A good tip of learning is to fire a short burst at where you think the shots will land, see its trajectory, then make adjustments.
For tactics, for new comers to RB, better stick to teammates (who know what they are doing), observe them, and try help them whenever possible and they will help you back. Or if you are unsure, you can ask them in the chat. They are surprisingly helpful in giving advice.
+Lai SY Well most of the performance it has in-game are historically true, I just wasn't expecting it to outclimb a Freidrich (maybe the F-4 can outclimb Spitfire Vb? No idea...)
I'm practicing aiming with the P-38G from time to time, as it has plenty of ammo, nose-ounted weaponry, and similar ballistics with 50cals and cannon (tracers from former helps aim stealth latter). When it comes to the F-1 or the Russian 20mm however I find it pretty hard to use "ranging shots" as you have a pitiful amount of ammo. I don't struggle hitting enemies as far as 800m out, but the turning ones are real hard to judge (maybe practice will help, but even in Arcade it's not that easy).
Funny you mentioned the chat. I once asked what settings are best for P-38 MEC and I got "WEP all day". And from time to time I get "l2p arcade scrub", so yeah :/ much ego I guess
Kevin, with the F-1 I've been practicing engaging at close range, and only firing when I either have a deflection shot where I can aim ahead of the enemy & have them fly into my bullets, or when the enemy is sitting still & I can zoom in and aim precisely. I also try to keep bursts as short as possible. Note the examples I included in the mission editor battle in this vid - I downed several planes with the one load of ammo.
Its also essential to separate the firing buttons for machineguns and cannon. In theory, you could get the range with the MGs and save the cannon for when you're on target, but in practice I think its better to get a shot you really like & then go straight to cannon. Where I'd use the MGs is when I have an enemy running in front of me, and I want to spook them into maneuvering - tracer tends to do that, as they don't know you're only using rifle rounds.
Kevin Techapichetvanich Even F4 can barely compete with Spits. I think the G6 can, but I'm not sure, since I only reach G2.
I set a key just for only firing the MG and have the vertical aiming on. I use the MG for ranging, then when I'm confident, I go full out. Often times, I hilariously killed the enemy with my ranging shots tho. Who would have thought the Japanese 7,7mm can set engine on fire?
The turning ones, well, practice and experience. I really can't think of any tips for that ^_^;
Though those are the best targets, since they expose more surface area to get hit.
Actually the "WEP all day" is kinda true for P-38s lol
But guess I was lucky with the players I meet. They were helpful to me.
long5hot, I think you would have a blast playing spit mkI in RB especially with your love of the rudder... It is an absolutely beautiful plane in every regard except for its roll rate and lack of flaps :)
I think you're undervaluing the Corsair. It's raw straight-line speed and heavy armament (for its BR), combined with the fact that it often gets downtiered means is can absolutely annihilate an enemy team if flown competently, particularly Russians, which it seems to fight most often.
I would have liked to see two additional tests: never-exceed speed, and level flight energy retention out of a dive.
You could be right - I'll find out when I fly it in order to make a Corsair-specific vid. From memory, I've only taken it into an RB battle once (6 months ago) and was hopelessly outperformed in every way by a Ki-61.
Additional tests noted - will include for future vids of this type.
Mate, I loved this. It's a lot of improvement over the last one, I've got nothing to add this time :) Anyway, some of the stats really did surprise me! Who would have thought a Bf-109 could outturn a Yak, eh?
I would consider the Ki-44-II Hei as the best 2.7 Japanese fighter. It might not turn as well as the Ki-61 or Ki-43, but is better in most other aspects.
Good video, I always enjoy your content :)
Yes you could well be right, however I don't even have the plane unlocked let alone spaded & hence couldn't include it. I do have the otsu, but I obviously can't tell if it has the same FM. I'll get the plane soon enough though, and make some comparisons then.
Longshot yet another very good Upload ... See you around the WarThunder forums
BUSSIAN RIAS! lol the catch call of every american pilot that doesn't climb.
Very good video Long5hot, i progressed past these planes long time ago but sometimes i play low tier as i it can be more fun and more relaxing then high tier, try hardathons. I wonder how these planes would compare at high altitude such as 6 - 8000km and how they would perform.
Thank you for the video and the wonderful presentation 👍
Nice Video! I love the charts and all the editing. Please do a gun comparison between the planes too next time. That was a gr8 quality video, keep it up! :D
(oh and nice aim!)
In a replay, there are slow rewind options. That could make it easier to take measurements
Nice! Just take care with the rudder turn in furball, unless you know that everybody is in the fight or miles away. It's slow you down so much that a nice BnZ will make you been blown off ;)
Btw F4U is a good plane, but you have to fly it completely differently than other BnZ planes, it's speed retention is awesome in level flight.
As always in RB, the most useful tips, is to be patient and climb.
wow you put in a lot of work for that video, props, and thank you.
Fantastic work, man. Thanks!
I am glad youre back making vids again. It just so happens that I moved to RBs at about the same time you did so your vids are priceless to me. One thing though, Could you possibly color code the planes when comparing them in a chart? I found that trying to read the charts you put on the screen is kinda difficult, especially when comparing planes of the same nation.
Good idea - will keep this in mind for the next video.
+long5hot RB is _much_ harder to get used to than i thought, m8!
This is amazing!
I think you made the best choices :-)
Thank you for the video! However, for the next one I would suggest maybe including a mention on armament. I know it becomes a slightly irrelevant if you are a careful Aimer, but for beginners it might be helpful. Bonus points, I would say...
Yep, will do.
+long5hot cool!
Lovely pragmatic and straight talk. :D
Amazing video long5hot! I don't think anyone on youtube makes a better comparison video then you do. I was wondering, for the US, did you consider the A-36 at 2.7. I find it to be a competitive plane. I have never had that much success with the Corsair, even though I enjoy flying it. In another game I played, Aces High, which has a more realistic flight model IMHO, the F4U is a completely different plane and is incredible. I really feel that Gaijin has done a disservice to it.
Yes the Corsairs really seem badly represented in this game. I would have looked at the A-36, but in RB its 3.0.
Oh, of course you are right. I forgot this was RB. Thanks!
Great Vid man. Hopefully gaijin adds a tutorial about how to lead targets in RB ;)
Nearly all Yak fighters have crazy good energy retention in this game. Even up to the Yak-9UT. I think that is because all Yak fighter FMs are really old ones that got never an real update.
Regarding the Spiral climbs...nice maneuver. But in my experiance the situations you could use such a maneuver are really limited because most of the time it would be better to keep the speed up.
well, they could use a nerf in energy fighting, as far as I recall the yak's are pretty light airplanes.
but they also require a big buff when it comes to turnfighting performance, as they were pretty good at that historically.
+Oberst_Stein - agreed about the Spiral climbs. In Arcade that move is pure gold, but I do expect it to be less applicable to RB. However, if in a turning battle, it _is_ good to know whether you can hit rudder now & then to tighten the turn, or whether doing so will just stall a wing & get you in trouble.
Most of the Yak variants actually got a FM update last fall if I remember correctly, around the same time the early Spitfires received an overhaul too.
bloody tops video longshot
I've tried using the rudder with the ailerons with the emil variant but it didnt really work. But now ill test if the frederick is still capable of doing it. For Once more, thanks a lot for the information you provide
In rb we dont use the rudder turn as much becouse its really easy to follow and you bleed alot of speed doing it
Yes I hadn't seen anyone using rudder in RB yet, apart from hammerheads. I've been very sparing with it myself until I understood exactly how it affects each plane, and until I have a better feel for when & how to use it.
However, the vast majority of Arcade players don't use rudder either. In a dogfight situation, most use the elevator only, either with the keyboard or simply relying on mouse aim, and it makes them easy pickings for a player who adds rudder to the equation. In one of my vids, I out-turn a Spit VB (flown by an RB pilot visiting AB for some event or other) while flying a LaGG-3-8, because I was ruddering & he was not.
So I can't help but wonder if the same thing won't be possible in RB in certain circumstances.
I use rudder turn only to throw off the enemy's aim if he is chasing me from behind and I can't shake him off. Works most of the time, and it depends on your plane.
And on a related note, rudder on Spitfire is very important. Lose it and you are in a big disadvantage as your maneuverability depends on your rudder quite a lot. Of course, you can still use your aileron and elevator to compensate it, but not as good.
yes, it's really more of an emergency maneuver thing in rb.
+long5hot
I literally used rudder only for few hammerheads, air breaking in 163 or few other situations
+ you can do climbing spiral without it
In RB, definitely go for turn fighting and armament. Spitfire MK1a's 7.7's are quite weak. If not then Climb rate to BnZ.
F4U-1A Corsair is underpowered at 2.7
>:D
Also starting to the think the flight model of the Yak-7B is BS...
No it is not really underpowered. Of all the tested planes it has the highest damage output. The reason it seems mostly flown wrong by the pilots. The Corsair is a dedicated high-speed plane and boom and zoomer. Dont fly it under 350 km/h. The tests longshot did were mostly done at slow speeds, so no wonder the heavy Corsair sucks there.
Jan F Actually I was saying that sarcastically. While I'm not a big fan of the F4U Corsair in the game myself it certainly can be a very powerfull aircraft and because of how stupid the BR system is in the game you can face against it in He-112's, I-16's and high tier Chaikas and somehow it has a lower BR than all A6M's other than the A6M2-N, maybe because of the current meta game or maybe because players don't know how to use it (as I said I'm not good with it myself).
Only two things are against the Corsair in RB. One is its relatively poor climbrate compared to other nation's planes, and the other is indeed the fact that players either don't know how to use it, or couldn't be bothered. It takes a lot of patience & discipline to side-climb while everyone else is heading into battle & getting kills, and it takes above-average skill to concentrate on speed & smooth handling and avoid hard maneuvers.
The best American 2.7 planes are P-40E and the F4U-1a.
Love your videos, I play on Ps4 and I fly Russians. I fiel that the only good thing in this planes is their Guns. Im planning to start researching the brits.
The British don’t have very good guns tho. My spitfires are good in turning and maneuverability but aren’t very good at climbing and are bad in comparison to the Russians guns and pale to Germany’s climb rates and speed. I really wish I could research the German Bf series as they are much better at climbing than my spitfires.
Wait when I use smoke I have a less turn rate I think tht moght be the reason that the Ki 43 lost in the turn. I might be wrong but For me when I have smoke I cant turn as well
18:06 unless you see an xp55
F4U1a is amazing:)
If it gets an energy advantage, and the player is disciplined & doesn't pull any hard maneuvers, yes I imagine it'd be pretty good. However, there's no theoretical reason why it should ever gain that energy advantage given that its outclimbed by planes from other nations. For the F4U to enter amazing mode, other players have to make mistakes - and that's why I said in the video "if you're shot down by an American plane (at this BR range of course) then you only have yourself to blame".
+long5hot usually, and especially at that BR there are quite a few allies at ground level and the opposition will go for them. If you side climb disciplined then you can have a very enjoyable game. And tbh it's the same for almost all US planes regardless of BR. So happy you are back. Thank you for your excellent infotainment!
For 3.7 choose
P47 D28/5 or P63s
Bf109 F4 (obviously)
Not sure about other nations
Just suggestion
P51 for Americans
is this a re upload, i could swear i watched this on thursday or friday,yet youtube says it was uploaded 11 hrs ago
if you watched the video, he explains it within the first minute.
+rewtr lol would help if I watched it before commenting
i always know the 109s bleed to much energy (way more than realistic) but that's just a bad joke
I think the problem's often not as obvious due to the 109's excellent acceleration. Notice in the Split-S & Immelman test, I listed as "Almost" its attempt to make the 2nd Immelman immediately after correcting the roll on the 1st one - and that's despite exiting that 1st Immelman at 210km/h. In the time it took to roll the plane over it was already up to 260km/h.
i think an historical Line-up could be really interesting as well. Not that it matter for the game, but to see how close they get to reality
What about the A-36 for Americans? How does it stack up at 2.7?
Ugh, did I miss a plane? Hrm :(
Obviously I can't include it in the video now, but I'll run some tests on it asap & let you know how it went in comparison with the Corsair.
Awesome. I'm curious as its basically an early model mustang. :)
I haven't had a chance to test the A-36 yet, but I just noticed its a 3.0 rated plane, which is why I didn't look at it for this video.
long5hot
Ah yes. My mistake. 2.7 in AB. 3.0 in RB. Thanks for looking into it :)
dude how can you say the P-40 is abad plane? at that br it is a complete clubber, I easily got the checkertail shark camo.
If its a clubber, its because its carrying a stack of weapons & other players are bad.
The P-40 has the same poor climbrate as the F4U, except it starts to lose power over 4000m. In the Split-S Immelman test it lost as much energy as the Bf109, but the 109 has great acceleration which the P-40 does not.
In the BnZ test, the P-40 only hit 80km/h and barely recovered to 3000m before dropping to its sustained climbspeed - it lacks the energy retention to be considered a good plane in that role.
In the Acceleration test, it was generally 2 seconds slower to hit the measured speeds than the F4U. Its roll rate of 80 degrees/second is poor - Bf109s are 100deg/sec, F4U is 106, Yaks are 116. Its sustained turn time of 16.3 degrees/second is similar to the F4U and Yak, which doesn't matter to those planes as they're good BnZers, which the P-40 isn't.
Is that enough to go on? Don't worry, the P-400 is even worse :)
Thought !!! would testing plane turn rates with mouse aim be irrelevant? Or does manual control turn aircraft beyond technical specs?
I think it'd be irrelevant, as you'd either be turning less than the maximum in which case comparisons would be impossible, or you'd be at the max which is no different to using the keyboard.
You have more knowledge than me, as am still new. But I really thought joystick/controller/keyboard turned much faster than mouse aim. At least It seemed that way. Sort of a trade off for aim assist. Gajins way of balancing manual controls terrible wobble. So easy to over turn and go into a spin as well.
Well, as keyboard and mouse aim go together (its not an either/or choice) it would be irrelevant even if keyboard did turn faster than dragging the mouse - it doesn't anyway as both can move the controls to their full extent.
In fact, its joystick that struggles to turn as sharply. If (in RB mode) you tip a plane on its side and pull the up elevator using the keyboard, the plane will fly a perfect horizontal circle as tightly as it possibly can. If you tip it on its side and pull back on a joystick, the plane will likely start to turn, shudder, then drop into a stall spin. And its not as if its turning harder than the keyboard to cause this. In my testing, riding a joystick on the ragged edge where if I pulled back any harder I'd stall, I'm still turning measurably slower than the same plane with keyboard.
I don't know why this is, but when it comes to a hard maneuvering battle it puts the joystick pilot at a disadvantage. Where the stick pilot has an edge is their ability to perform gentle high speed maneuvers more smoothly than is possible with mouse aim, as the instructor likes to yank on the elevator & rudder more than necessary which loses energy, and keyboard is 100% or nothing which, while fine in Arcade, is a very crude way to control a plane in RB.
Great content btw. I've even started pre-Liking your videos.
Yea, I think I was just hoping, there was faster turning with joystick, riding the edge of spin if you would. Something to warrant using joystick over mouse aim. Gosh so damn hard to hold your own in arcade as a novice joystick combo pilot. Would like to join RB, but my skills aren't there yet, as people take WT quite serious. Soon though at least Im starting to get kills using manual control. Thanks for your time and sharing your tips with us.
Shows how shit the FM's of the Yak and Corsair are, in an advantageous and disadvantageous way respectively.
The Corsair's is actually pretty good as a BnZer, provided it gets an altitude advantage and the player doesn't pull any hard maneuvers.
However, the problem is that RB is basically a climbing contest (historical air warfare was not like that) so most American planes are at a disadvantage from the outset.
can you do this for 5.7 - 6.3
Eventually, yes.
Sad to hear about the American planes, as crappy as they are in this game with few exceptions, you would think they werent on the winning side (tanks too). Take the F6F if you played it in WT you would think it was garbage, when in fact it helped break Japans back. It might not be 100% Russian bias (do they have a crappy plane?), but its about 85%
Hmm, well, I think the main problem with US planes in WT is that the map design just isn't set up for how many of those planes were used historically.
For most of the war, the US was not on the defensive, which means they didn't have to design planes capable of being scrambled & climbing to altitude in rapid time. Instead they could focus on making heavier & stronger planes that protected their pilots, could carry plenty of ammo & fuel, and that flew in large numbers practicing clearly-defined squadron based battle tactics.
In WT their lack of climbrate is exposed, there's no numerical superiority and none of the teamwork that characterized the use of these planes historically.
Russia certainly has bad planes too. Of the options I tested in this battle range, only the Yak 7b is good - the others have serious deficiencies. The Yak does look like its a bit _too_ good though ;)
There is one plane in this BR range that I think its represented quite poorly in WT - the P-40. It should be a lot more agile than it is, after all its just a P-36 with a more powerful engine. The P-40 often had the thankless task of escorting ground attack planes at low altitude (especially in North Africa) and still was good enough to put up a fight when attacked from above by Bf109s. If a P-40 is caught low & slow by Bf109s in WT, that P-40 is deadmeat.
yak bias best plane xaxaxaxa