Why Varian Worked Where Cassandra Failed - TTS Analysis
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- čas přidán 9. 03. 2021
- To celebrate Tangled the Series' anniversary, let's do a character analysis of the moody teenagers of the Tangled family, Cassandra and Varian!
- Krátké a kreslené filmy
Cass: Hey can I copy ur villain arc?
Varian: Yeah sure just change it a little so no one notices
Cass: Ok
I WHEEZED. XDDD
lol
666th like, you are now cursed you're welcome
I like how your icon is varian too
Nice
Rapunzel in the movie: "When I make a promise, I never EVER break that promise"
Rapunzel in the TV Show:
Looking back, I think that's why the scene ends with Varian's "You promised" echoing in the halls while she hides her face in her hands. They were trying to emphasize this was her first time breaking a promise.
@ngocthach4020 it kind of was, she had a kingdom to protect (something she greatly struggled with at first as seen in the episode), and varian was demanding that she leave now. I'll admit, he had a good reason to be worried, but Rapunzel couldn't just leave like that. Plus, she never actually broke that promise, she did help free quirin and she did figure out the mystery with the black rocks so all in all, Rapunzel can still say she's never broken a promise,
@ngocthach4020 Ok, so I thought about what you said, and I decided to go back and watch though the end of Queen for a day and skim through The Quest For Varian (the one where she finds Quirin in the amber, without varian with her). Here's what I've concluded. In A Queen For A Day, she pretty much almost loses everyone close to her. Pascal, her parents, as well as her boyfriend, and she has to place all her trust in what was then considered a 'fairy tale'. She is definitely shaken in the last moments of the episode. In the next episodes (Painters Block and Not In The Mood), she gets put in a trance and then drugged, pretty much. So she's clearly not in her best state of mind. After her vision in TQFV, she almost immediately goes to talk to her father, who then lies about the situation in old Corona. Had she not read Varian's letter, she would have been under the impression that everything was fine with the black rocks and there was no reason for her to worry about it. When she did read that letter from Varian, she immediately went to old Corona to try and help him. She accompanies Varian in his quest to steal a petal from the physical flower (which could be seen as committing treason!) and gets betrayed by him in the end. Then the events of TSOTS play out. So I do firmly believe that Rapunzel did all that she could to help Varian. *Edit I said queen for a day when it should have been secret of the sundrop
Varian is in the wrong. Rapunzel was left in charge of the entire kingdom however her priorities were to save the people in the city. It could be considered a state of emergency.
How would you take it if your town got hit by a disaster and the government decided to focus all their resources in trying to find one criminal that is out there.
Rapunzel made the right choice. She made a decision worthy of a Queen. The Queen has to do what benefits the many.
It’s the trolley problem.
Runaway trolley is head for 5 works stuck on the track and 1 on the other track, do you switch the track? Yes or no? That was the same problem Rapunzel faced.
@@eddog6666 That's the point. He isn't thinking straight, he's blinded by anger and desparation and wants revenge which makes him go evil. And that's why Varian's villain arc wouldn't be able to support an entire season, which is why Cass' didn't work.
Varían after his redemption arc: just vibes
Varían after he gets kidnapped by Cassandra: *vibes anyway*
You can’t stop the Varian vibe
@@0calliestar0 He certainly passed the vibe check
Honestly we stan
@@0calliestar0 varivibe
Lmao cinnamon roll always be vibing
Honestly as much as I love moon Cassandra the arc really do be all over the place
I know I’m like this is terrible writing but waiting in the wings tho ✊😔
@@0calliestar0 Waiting in the Wings didn't have to be part of a villain arc though. It could've just been a deeply engaging exploration of her character that led to her finally getting the shine she deserved. Instead, they chose to use it as justification for a negative arc that had little foundation to exist (for as long as it did anyway), and swapped my favorite character with a completely different person for the vast majority of the final season. And believe me, EVERYONE watching the show was infuriated with Cass' OOC thought process at the beginning of season 3.
@@DLxxx well I wasn’t 😅
I personally think the entire series was a flop. There were some good characters and good moments, but that ultimately couldn't save it. I know the show is ment for kids but I found it got too silly at times and had too many characters that were there just for comic relief. It really starts to make it hard to feel like the problems they are facing is a real threat. (Most of these issues started mid season 2) I hated that they practically turned varian into a background character and think they could have showed him struggle a bit more after his redemption to fit in. I also hate that they made Flynn a prince and found that it was pointless and ruined the uniqueness of his and Rapunzel's relationship. Cassandra was probably the worst because the reason for her betrayal was weak, She-ra did a better job at the whole manipulative/abusive mother with two daughters and put more reason in for Catra being bad.
Overall they were trying to make a fantasy adventure show with a bigger sceme at play and with meaningfull characters but wasn't able to make it serous enough and put too many pointless characters and scenes in it. They put too many silly scenes and whacky mini adventures in the overall journey that distracted you from the characters overall goal. They could and should have ended the series sooner by cutting out all the extra garbage and made the characters feel more meaningful by putting more weight into their personal problems and emotions. They could still have silly moments, they should have just toned it back more, a good example just the right amount of silly is The dragon Prince.
@@briannapicanco6337 I honestly agree with what you're saying the series was kind of a flop but I'd be lying if I said that it wasn't enjoyable. For me it was like very charming I liked all the characters and I enjoyed watching their shenanigans every episode. I do wish we got more Varian because he's literally the best character in the show but i personality like it even if it is kind of a mess 😅 I tend to not look at many things critically and just enjoy em ya know. But I totally agree with you!
"he just want his dad to be proud of him, doesnt every characters with black hair want that"
me touching my hair, gasp dramatically : how dare you
**looks at my black hair and daddy issues** ...
Me with black hair but no dad: _heh_
Huh, maybe that's why I started bleaching my hair after my dad went to rehab
My character with blue hair: pathetic.
Gon : The green part will never betray me !
The thing about Varian's arc is that he wasn't FIGHTING Rapunzel. Rapunzel was as much a tool, to him, as the Demanitus Scroll was a tool to Cassandra later. Varian was fighting the one that kept him trapped in the ruins of his hometown, the one that vilified him and kept him from trying to get help legally, that allowed a false rumor to spread about him. He was fighting Frederic, and his "she's right, dad" gloat was him declaring "Checkmate" on their ongoing challenge. Was he mad at Rapunzel? Yes. But Frederic was the big obstacle to him helping his father, the one making moves in secret to beat him down. That's why his arc, to me, was so compelling. He wasn't just fussing over a broken promise, he was fighting the entire Royal Family, but especially the King, for his life and freedom to save his father without armed men in masks hunting him down.
True!!!! He has that whole political speech when they’re all in the courtyard in the smoke, which is honestly in my opinion his *best villain moment* where I think they really use the character and his strengths in a way that makes sense and isn’t just a cliché villain thing. And also the fact that he made his pet a literal biological weapon is awesome and horrible, but also awesome 👏🏼
Right. He was never the villain. King Frederic was. This is why I hated the end of season 1 so much and season 2 even more. S2 was just more of letting Frederic off the hook (and Raps too because she wasn’t entirely innocent in this either). It was also kind of annoying that it was never really addressed in S3 either.
@@LibraryAmbientJunkie Yeah, in season 3 he's basically given a free pass because his brain was still a bit addled from getting his memory wiped, which is just...honestly, Rapunzel gave too many people free passes that didn't deserve them. Yes, while he didn't remember we shouldn't punish him, but once he DID? Frederic should've been answering for his crimes against the Kingdom. He went directly against the vows he made when he took the crown, vows we hear Rapunzel being told just before Lady Caine attacked the first time. Not to mention his betrayal of his friendship with Quirin by attacking his son as soon as he was unable to protect him. The man took no time in making Varian's life hell, driving him to desperation and crime to escape what he was doing to him and to try to free his father. No remorse, no apology, not from Cassandra and not from Frederic.
@@TailsFan finally someone talking sense. Rapunzel is just too idealistic for her own good.
@@TailsFan At least you're talking sense. Fred and Raps annoyed me since neither of them truly owned up to what they did
The thing that always bothered me about Cassandra's arc was a lack of purpose/plan.
For Varian it was simple: steal the flower -> free his father. Turns out Rapunzel was the flower? Get leverage (kidnapping the queen) -> distract everyone -> get Rapunzel to help free his father. And he achieved that, his plan and execution was flawless, he was only wrong about the flower being able to destroy the amber. (which he had no way of knowing, so he just had to gamble)
As for Cass, we have: get the moonstone (which she had no way of knowing if it would give her powers or simply kill her) -> ...destroy Rapunzel i guess??? But what does that mean? Kill her? She had plenty of oportunities to do that even before moonstone. Destroy Corona? Then why wait so long, she could've done that the moment she figured out how to use her powers. Show everyone who's boss? Okay, but... what does that achieve? At first her being kinda lost made sense, but after a while it became aparent that she had no real goal.
Well one has to see where Cass was coming from. The moonstone does come with power. Which she wanted to use to prove herself as more than a handmaiden or bodyguard. Along with that there was also that Cass had a complex because of who Gothel was. Which Zhan Tiri exploited. Being as young as she was she most likely associated Rapunzel with being abandoned. Hence the projection. The whole buildup was started way back in season 1 with "Challenge of the Brave". As mentioned in "Crossing the Line" and "Waiting in the Wings". Cass felt slighted and overlooked. The complex she had from Gothel already was only intensified by that. By putting herself in the spotlight with the moonstone it was akin to Varian's "I'll make them hear me". As for Corona she was gaining control over the moonstone's power. Which is why she wanted the Demanitus scroll. However Zhan Tiri was using Cass in order to get to the sundrop.
@@darkshadowstorm7056
Agreed.
Also:
I have seen you under so many comments now, trying to make people understand Cassandra better.
You are like a lonely warrior in a pool full of superficiality.
My respect for that and have a nice day!
@@beingafk3494 Well as Cass says there was more to the story. Have a great day as well.
@ngocthach4020 That was the foundation of what set the whole arc into motion. If it hadn't been for Zhan Tiri it most likely would have turned out differently.
@ngocthach4020 There was also the hand incident that added to the whole thing. Being wrapped up by a complex and having something to prove is hard to overcome.
Varian: always helped rapunzel but got rejected when he asked for one. Lost his dad, his home, and lost his faith.
Cassandra: *JEALOUS*
It's got more layers to it than that. Cass' gripe wasn't against Rapunzel herself but rather what she represented. On top of that we have manipulation from Zhan Tiri and the whole complex with Gothel.
She wasn’t jealous of nothing also she too had problems and ignoring them isn’t doing her any good
it was just a joke but okay...
@@tyathedude don't worry, I thought your joke was funny!
@@darkshadowstorm7056 yeah, but that doesn’t change the fact that Cassandra is an adult, she can rely on herself and make her own choices. While Varian was a kid in a dire situation, also what does Cassandra getting abandoned by Gothel have to do with almost killing Rapunzel, Calliope, trying to crush Eugene, and almost killing countless others. There’s no way to justify that, she did that, and for what to be recognized. How does killing people, starting wars, and getting veagence for her mother do that exactly? If anything it makes her just as bad as Gothel.
To be a tad fair to Cass, I would not say her being ticked off at Rapunzel for “stealing Gothel” or whatever is entirely unreasonable. This is because in real life, children who are abused by their parent(s) really want their the latter's approval. And oftentimes the more abusive the parent is, the more the child wants to get their affection.
EDIT: Dang, I think this is the most likes I’ve ever gotten. Thanks~
That is true. I think something else that effected Cass is that she isn’t normally an emotional person. Since her emotions were suppressed for a while and when Mother Gothel was revealed to be her mom that wa the final nail on the coffin that made her emotions explode and she was super lost
@@maem7462 I guess so. And it probably didn’t help that Zhan Tiri exploited Cassandra’s negative feelings toward Rapunzel to manipulate her.
I feel like it would be one thing if, after being abandoned by Gothel, Cass then had no one at all to love or take care of her and had a rough life on the streets or something. In that case, I could understand why she might think that having a cold, emotionally abusive parent would at least be better than having no parent at all.
But of course that's _not_ the case! She was immediately adopted by the Captain and got to live in the castle with him, and he raised her to be a capable, well-liked young woman.
It's as if he's suddenly chopped liver while she's busy inexplicably yearning for the non-existent love of her biological mom, who we all know was an abusive bitch and not worth anyone's affection.
@@elsie8757 That is a fair point. When ppl hate trauma they likely don’t think about things rationally. Most the time when ppl see one bad thing they focus more on that than the good. She did have some problems with how her adopted dad raised her because he was very protective of her and also put her to a high standard. She had a parent that loved her. I do agree that mother Gothel’s affection isn’t worth trying to get. A lot of the time ppl who go through having an abusive parents have a hard time dealing with it. I think in Cass’s case it was easier for her to blame someone else than accept that her own mother never loved her. Of course it’s an unhealthy coping mechanisms and not the right thing to do. I will say that they could have focused more on the angle of Cass thinking that if her own mother didn’t love her does that mean anyone has or maybe she thought she would never be good enough to be the captain of the guards. We the audience knows that’s not true but they could have played on one of those insecurities that Cass likely has. I do know she had a chance to prove herself to be the captain of the guards in season one but maybe she could have been scared that she would mess up and wouldn’t be able to live out that dream. One that they kinda brought up but didn’t talk about was how she feels like Repunzel is in the spotlight more and everyone focusing on her and forgets about Cass or only sees Cass as Repunzel’s lady in waiting or Repunzel’s guard and not her own person. They didn’t go that deep into it but they could have gone more into that with her turn to becoming the antagonist
If I might refer to another show that had a very similar but, imo, better integrated plot to this. She-Ra had this chosen one vs scapegoat dynamic as well with Catra and Adora. Now say what you will about Catra (I know she's toxic and not at all justified) but I feel like they showcased both sides in a pretty realistic way on an emotional scale. Catra was constantly verbally and physically abused by Shadow Weaver and threatened that she was only kept around because Adora liked her. Meanwhile Adora, while chosen by Shadow Weaver, was constantly told she had to be good enough, to put her duty before herself or her loved ones would get punished. I don't really know where I'm going with this rn but I just feel like it had a better build up and execution of the chosen vs abandoned character dynamic while Rapunzel vs Cass just felt kinda forced. Rapunzel was chosen, yes, but she was constantly verbally abused (even if it was subtle), kept isolated and used for 18 years while Cass was neglected until she found a loving but strict father figure. Yes, she kept getting set back but the fact that she took it all out on the one person who always tried to be there for her, even if she didn't always manage or made mistakes, felt so annoying. I know that Cass was irrational because of her trauma and Zhan Tirir but I feel that the writers could've made it more compelling. Because while it is fun to hate a villain in a "love to hate them", it is not well-executed if you hate them as a villain because they feel annoying.
The funny thing is that Varian was literally a last second character that they pulled out of the hat when the writers realized they needed someone to get Rapunzel out of Corona.
Gotta give them props because of how well written that last second character is
and he is the best character in the show by far. That's funny.
I hate he was only a plot device
And he’s the best character ! Love that
the other funny thing is that his arc was so well written at "last minute" while Cassandra's was so messy and she was planned on being a villain from the very beginning, they were drawing her as moon Cass before Cass even had a final character design
Cassandra:You stole my childhood!
Rapunzel: *I was literally kidnapped*
True-💀
And when Cass said 'was it ur choice when you pushed her out of the window' in the episode Cassandra's revenge
Bruh it wasnt raps who pushed her out it was Pascal in the movie who made gothel trip on her chopped hair And then gothel fell So what DOES CASS mean by raps pushed Gothel out of the video it was Litterally Pascal while she was with Eugene.
@@yourfriendoskyAlso, it doesn't matter if she pushed Gothel out the window on purpose. It was either: the love of her live dies, or her abuse fake mother who kidnapped her and has been using her dies.
Something that makes me sad about Cass's villain arc is that she only admits she was wrong once she looses her power and is betrayed by Zan Tiri. Varian sorts himself out once he realizes the raiders actually plan to hurt people, and willingly turns on them even though he's outnumbered. Cass's "redemption" kinda felt like she didn't really mean it. It happened when she was reduced to nothing, sitting in a cage with no moon stone left. It just feel insincere imo.
What should have happened, is that her adopted father should have been killed in the final battle in which he would have apologised with tears in his eyes to Cassandra just about she is about to take out the Sun Drop for not telling her the truth about her mother and that no matter her actions, he would always love her. Cassandra slowly starts to lower her hand, but then Zhan would have grabbed the moon Stone from Cass, the Captain tries to save her but Zhan would have stabbed him to death and he would died in Cass’s arms when she and Rapunzel were trapped. And that would have been a great time for Cass to break down and cry in Rapunzel’s arm,
@@charliepugh6049 Well depends on how one views it I'd say. Anyone who even looks antagonistic especially when it comes to Rapunzel gets a raw deal. Look at Varian or Attila. It got so bad he thought he was so far gone the only way to redeem himself was to erase everyone's memories. Attila would have been sent on a prison boat had it not been for Raps. With Cass they made a whole play with Vlad playing her. Saying things like "Tremble in the face of my evil villainy". Not to mention the poster. It's why she didn't show up as herself but rather as Faith. It's only when the moonstone and Zhan Tiri's influence are gone that she realizes it was all manipulation. Then she gives Rapunzel the last of the moonstone so she can beat Zhan Tiri and ends up dying fighting alongside them. That's the biggest statement of all she could make. Had it not been for Raps she wouldn't have been able to ride off in the end.
For me, I’d think of it like;
She was starting to doubt her choices, and whenever hat happens, the goat lady (Zan Tiri) would pop out and manipulate her. But that last part, SHE was the one who left her, and Zan Tiri’s manipulation is making it seem like SHE’S the only one Cass can count on because everyone else has turned their backs on her.
So she only realises after Zan Tiri takes her powers, because it seems as if she lost everything; her friends, Zan Tiri, her magic, her home
Cass shouldn't have been redeemed on the last episode. It made it really hard for me to buy it. She should have been redeemed a little earlier so that we could actually see she changed.
@@mysterysunfurled Well there were three points at which Cass could've been redeemed. The first was in "Crossing the Line". Had Raps not used the word "wait" she would have been successful at talking her down. The next was when she's after the Demanitus scroll. Rapunzel says "Somewhere deep down you know this isn't right" and Cass almost backs down. But Zhan Tiri eggs her on. The final point was in "Once a Handmaiden". Cass makes an effort to apologize but Zhan Tiri sets off project obsidian which causes an all out fight. All in all what they needed was more time to center on Cass herself.
"And this is when Variam shifts from the sweet cinnamon roll that the fangirls love to the angsty alchemy based anarchist that the fangirls also love"
I legit just died at that!! 😂
Same lol
DONT forget, Jeremy Jordan’s voice acting for Varian was also PHENOMENAL
I never even heard of Jeremy Jordan before and I have to say that his talent is so impressive. I am blown away that this was his first ever voice over roll, because of how naturally he plays Varian. He is phenomenal at emoting and I think that is what I loved the most about by his performance as Varian. He really brought the pathos to his character and why I think Varian as a character (in spite of the writers seemingly wanting us the audience to hate him) was so impactful and popular.
answering to a 2 year old comment yeah but Eden Espinoza's (Cassandra) performance was also amazing, the way the both voices harmonize in Nothing Left to Lose is just so amazing, you can feel how the characters feel
@@mariapsi7844 honestly fair, after two years I have come to realize I did NOT give Eden's performance enough credit as a voice actor haha
@mariapsi7844 Honestly, both Eden Espinosa and Jeremy Jordan gave such wonderful performances voicing their respective characters that they are the talent that elevates this show.
Agreed.
"you killed my father" speeches never get old. For example. "Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die"
Aaaaaaaaaaagdrqgvettsbsusiehv
*YES!!!* Absolutely iconic! ‘The Princess Bride’ is one of my all time favourite movies for many reasons and THAT LINE is high on the list!
hahah yes
@@Krill_Phil the book as well :)
@@LL-tr5et Is that’s what the movie’s based on?
@@Krill_Phil ....yeah?? what else would it be based on lmao. although i havent watched the movie so they might have some differences
The king is indeed stupid and dose not take blame for anything. What I have also said is after the storm Raps never goes and visits Varian. See what he needed.
Ikr I was so confused why Rapunzel never checked on Varian once she wasn’t busy trying to save the kingdom, I feel like it could have solved a lot of problems lol. Maybe she couldn’t find Varian, like he didn’t want to be found so he hid away anytime he says guards coming by? Idk
@@0calliestar0 Yeah, I think she mentioned that he went MIA for a while in the Alchemist Returns episode
The King made me so mad. Also he said he was going to get Varian help after they “won” against him. Where was that help apparently it was NOWHERE. He thought it was a good idea to put Varian a I think 14 year old atm in a JAILCELL WITH ADULTS. But earlier in the season he said he couldn’t put kids in jail. Now that I think about it they were putting kids in jail when Eugene was going around stealing things. Frederick stop putting kids in jail! He handed it in the worst way possible
@@maem7462 true, if he gotten help (therapy) he never would have joined Andrew
@@ladyofways Yeah I think that’s what we’re supposed to believe, which I do. But I think they should’ve made it more clear to the mainstream audience that Rapunzel *could not* find Varian or knew where he was. I think that’d deflate a lot of the invalid Rapunzel hate from some fans.
And Varian’s arc is even *more* sympathetic when you look at everything else that isn’t directly stated in the show. Nigel accuses Varian of attacking Rapunzel _before he even did anything,_ so he’s likely not going to be able to go into town to get stuff like food in the amount of time he spends at home trying to free his father before The Alchemist Returns-we know his reputation was already that of a ‘dangerous wizard’, and with this added onto that, life would’ve been far from easy. And in Quest For Varian, King Frederic literally sent guards to drive this kid out of his home because he knew too much! And when he promises he’ll get Varian help, he just...doesn’t. I’m so mad that Fred never faced the consequences of his actions just because he’s Chris Sonnenburg’s self-insert. The stuff with Varian isn’t even close to everything he’s done.
It’s so weird how Varian’s arc, which was only there as a plot point to get Rapunzel to go to the Dark Kingdom, is so much better than Cassandra’s, which was a planned part of her character _and the show,_ from the beginning.
Varian: Does things to save his father(who he feels responsible for trapping)and his village, which was destroyed thanks to the royal family doing nothing(and also, thanks to Fredric taking the Sundrop and Rapunzel touching the black rocks)to help except to have them move to a new home(which would not have done much thanks to the spreading of the black rocks). Drugs people with a truth serum, since Fredric lied and hid the flower(dead and useless)away, is told that he betrayed Rapunzel when he really didn't and, when the flower does not work on the drill, he is forced to escalate, first with automatons, then kidnapping the Queen. When Rapunzels hair does nothing, he has a complete breakdown, trying to kill them all out of anger, before being locked away and promising to "Get him help."
Locking him away in adult prison, most likely under the castle.
With a Separatist of Saporia.
Cassandra: Betrays Rapunzel and steals the moonstone just because she feels its "her destiny", sends a mass of fear creating red rocks to assault Corona, kidnaps Varian, threatens to murder Eugene to make Rapunzel unleash her power, tries to destroy the Spire and kill Calliope, brainwashes the Brotherhood, destroys Corona Castle and helps a demonic entity attack the kingdom.
Rapunzel: I won't ever give up on a friend!
Me: Like, bitch,...what?!!
And Cassandra gets to run off scot free. I swear, if Rapunzel spent even a FRACTION of the time she did on Cass with Varian, he could have been a heroic character at the end of season 1 and gone with the party instead of friggin' Hookfoot(the worst of the companions for filler episodes).
I despise that Varian was only a plot device. And it shows in how he is treated in the narrative.
@@phousefilms Sometimes I imagine a season 2 with Varian in it because Rapunzel tells Varian to just FRICKIN' WAIT CUZ HER KINGDOMS DYINGGGGGGGGG.(I'm still mad at her fur that, like gurl that's so out of character for u)But King Frederic was the one who locked Varian up. He's worse than Calliope in my opinion. I find that Queen Ariana is like the one who knows that everything will work out fine and gives good advice and is the sweetest parental figure everrrr. But Raps could've maybe tried to prove Varian innocent. Really, imagine if Blondie just CHECKS UP ON HIM AFTER THE STUPID STORM and once V sees she can't help he just continues to bond with her. They become good friends but Raps still gets those dreams and one night Varian finds the scroll, deciphers it and advises her to embrace the rocks and the story goes on. but tbh, villain Varian is the king of villain sass
It’s funny how varian’s ace was just a plot thread and cass was supposed to be the biggest threat but I keep thinking to myself why? They had a much harder time when Varian was the villain the real villain all along was bad writing!! Bam bam bammmmmmm
I just hate the king in this show it’s like bruh “ kidnaps your wife ( go to adult prion) “ Kidnaps a kid, threaten and try to kill your daughter, tries to destroy your kingdom” your off the hook it’s fine. Seriously why the Queen would have been a far greater ruler in a pg13 version of the show the king dies and the queen takes over the kingdom is way better out sorry about my long rant!
The fact that Varian FELL off Cass’ TALLLL TALL stronghold, but rapunzle went to check on Eugene, and none of them went to check in Varian after, is concerning. (But dang, the face Varian made when hugging Lance is ✨ g o l d ✨)
i didnt think of this and this made me incredibly sad.
Fr i was so annoyed 😭
Rapunzel collapsed after using her sun powers battling Cassandra. And did not seem aware that Varian had been pushed off the tower from the blow back of the clashing powers energy. Rapunzel needs a pass here, she seemed over wrought with exertion and therefore not super aware of her surroundings. Also Eugene called out for Varian right when he got blown off. He rushed over to Rapunzel instead of Varian because Rapunzel is the love of his life and she was crumpled on the ground surrounded by ruble. She was his most urgent concern at that moment.
It's interesting but Rapunzel also did not even bother to check on Cassandra or seemed all that concerned for her even though Cassandra was in the direct blast and was right in front of Rapunzel when she fell off the tower. But no one mentions or cares about that it seems.
8:47 "And so, Season 1 ends with Varian being seriously messed up on the inside and the king is like 'Ew, get this peasant out of my face', great" Savage, girl.
That's basically what he does, yeah. The king says "Oh yeah, I'll do whatever I can to help him." Like, ok dude. Was 'whatever you could do to help him' throwing him in prison with an adult traitor, and forgetting about him for six months. Yeah, great job there, Fred.
@@ReeseAugust let me level with you for a second. I am not defending Fred he sucks. But isn’t possible he was trying to get help but got his memory erased before he could
@@jackpearce367 possible. But do you think he would show mercy to someone who almost killed his wife and daughter once he has him at his mercy beyond not having him executed outright?
@@Passions5555 yeah you’re right that does make sense I made that comment to defend Fred more than anything
Varian is actually a likable character and his dark turning point is one you can sympathize with. His dad is trapped and he's losing everything and the one person that can help him, doesn't help him and feels betrayed and it makes sense. When Cass turns evil, she sounds like an ungrateful brat because while yes her mom abandoned her but at least she was adopted by a man that DID ACTUALLY love her! Yet she gets mad at Rapunzel because somehow it was Rapunzel's fault she was kidnapped and Gothel "loved" Rapunzel in the end??? Oh no, totally forget it wasn't her fault at all and she was lied to for 18 years by the only person she thought was her mom. Totally all her fault. I just couldn't sympathize with her like Varian.
Not exactly. One has to see from Cass' perspective. Because of who Gothel was Cass never felt important to her despite craving her attention as her mother. Which is why that mirror scene was so important to her. It was the validation she wanted all that time.Her gripe was against what Rapunzel represented rather than Raps herself. She was only a stand in for whatever kept Gothel from giving her that attention. In addition Cass wanted to designate herself as more than a handmaiden or bodyguard.
@ngocthach4020 Not an excuse but rather an explanation. A reason as to why Cass would choose to do so. All of her actions were motivated by that attention she never got starting with Gothel. Which is why one of the biggest statements for her character in the series was the ending. Without the moonstone and Zhan Tiri's influence she was able to analyze that. Which is huge for her character because as she says "Not everyone can look someone else in the eye and say 'I'm hurting', 'I'm sad', or even 'I'm sorry'. As a character she isn't one to readily spill her feelings and thoughts as easily as say Rapunzel is. For her to confide in Raps at the end like she did and then die fighting to stop Zhan Tiri says alot.
@ngocthach4020 Much the same as Varian. In fact, he was so convinced that he was too far gone and that the only way to redeem himself was to erase everyone's memories. The king told Rapunzel they would get him "help" but she wasn't there to see how that panned out. With Cass in "Once a Handmaiden" she says "No I can't just go talk to her face to face". "Because she won't be, I mean the people won't be happy to see me" and later to Zhan Tiri says "Because I'm scared she won't forgive me " when asked why she didn't apologize by then. Because the townsfolk tend to shun even people who so much as look antagonistic. Especially when it comes to Rapunzel. Which judging by the poster and how they reacted it makes sense. Project obsidian was what pushed her over the edge because if even Raps viewed Cass as a villain well that alone was a statement. Remember one of her big lines is "Since when did you stop trusting my judgment". Which incidentally is similar to her line in "Ready as I'll ever Be" which is "They can trust me".
@ngocthach4020 The townsfolk somehow caught wind about Cass having the moonstone. So they reacted more to her presence than any real threat. She was just standing there and they charged at her. If she really did want to hurt them she could have. After all in Varderos she injured 23 people getting the town to sign up for Rapunzels events just wrestling. That was before the moonstone. She puts them in rock cages instead to keep them from attacking. Even with the people throwing tomatoes at her. She first blocks any more fruit with a wall and then they end up on trenches to get them to stop. It was all more a defense than anything. It was project obsidian that got her to take over Corona.
@ngocthach4020 Cass does walk in Maleficent style. To a prince's birthday party ironically enough. But the most threatening thing she does is brandish that sword. Which isn't that off considering she does so quite a few times throughout the series. No show of force because she didn't have control over the rocks. Hence why she was after the Demanitus scroll. They didn't know that though. Which she used to her advantage. In the same episode we see another possible redemption point. Rapunzel says "Somewhere inside you know this isn't right". Then we see a close up of Cass reacting and moving away from the sword. But as with the others Zhan Tiri shows up again and gets in the way.
I'll try not to go on a huge rant about it, but I feel like Cass's arc would've gone so much better if it focused more on her being insecure, and then having Zhan Tiri take advantage of that? Like it would make so much more sense for her to lash out if she had started to feel insecure and conflicted about her relation to Gothel, and then on top of that had been bitter about constantly being pushed aside/ignored. Imagine if she had this whole spiral where she thinks Rapunzel will disrespect her MORE once she finds out about Gothel being her mom, because now she'll never be able to look at her the same again... And then Zhan Tiri comes around and tells her that yes, Rapunzel would ruin her over it and that Cass would lose her reputation and everything she's worked so hard for... So in her fear, Cass grasps onto this belief that she needs to "beat" Rapunzel before Rapunzel can "beat" her, and then it actually makes more sense for her to not be able to come around after an episode or two.
Idk, not a perfect idea of course but I really wish they had just played around more with the idea of Cass being conflicted about Gothel being her mom (both jealous AND horrified/ashamed) as opposed to being like "I can't believe you betrayed me by being kidnapped by my mom as an infant >:( "
You did it.. you fixed the arc! Go home everyone. Shows over, this person wrote the arc better than the actual writers did.
That's an amazing idea. Why do us average people have to fix the errors of professionals all the time?? Is this so hard to think of???
@@spaghetto9836 the magic of creativity 😎
That would work but just remember victims can be in denial about how horrible their abuser is even when they KNOW deep down 😅
Well one has to see where Cass was coming from. Her gripe wasn't against Rapunzel herself but rather what she represented. On top of having a complex because of who Gothel was.
Also the fact that Varian went to JAIL being 14 and Cassandra did so much more damage and got away without a single punishment?? I hate that
Same actually I mean I get that Cass is Rapunzel's best friend but Varian is literally a kid idk why they did that but maybe because he "attacked" Rapunzel in queen for a day 😑😑 whatever it is it's really annoying
Varian himself was done well but Rapunzel's behaviour in Season 1 was a bit... iffy. I wish the writers found a way to make Varian feel betrayed without turning Rapunzel into such a negligent douche. Rapunzel who let the guards throw Varian out of the castle and Rapunzel who went postal after Pascal went missing didn't even feel like the same character.
Varian also needed more screen time in Season 1 before the turning point. Let him interact with the main cast, let him feel like belongs in the group.
Bruh, ikr- Like, this 14-year-old boy braved a literal blizzard to get to the castle and they just throw him out the minute he gets there. And then Rapunzel just apparently forgets he ever came and never checks back later after the blizzard is over to be like, "Oh yeah, sorry I couldn't help you then but I'm here now."
This ain't it chief
Again, being FLAWED isn’t a crime😅
I think the Pascal thing was in character tbh, like if you were a prison or your whole life and only had one friend who stuck with you through it all, you’d probably go a little mad if something happened to them.
I feel like Rapunzel's behavior throughout this series was iffy. She's supposed to be this adventurous, caring, intelligent young woman. She fights back when she's wronged, like when she discovers the truth about Gothel but, when it came to this series, she seemed careless and selfish. People question where Cassandra's sudden betrayal came from but seem to forget that she tried to convince Rapunzel that being turned into a bird by strangers in the woods was a bad idea but was ignored because Rapunzel wanted to fly. All was well in the end because Rapunzel selflessly sacrificed herself to save lives she put in danger, though. Rapunzel put lives in danger and Cass tries to stop it but is ignored because Rapunzel just wants to do a thing, and that's not the Rapunzel we knew.
I do kinda understand why cass is so desperate for gothel's love but watching her flip flop around for a season is so frustrating. Cass go to therapy challenge
Well it's more that both reasons were side by side. Not so much flip floppy as it was both affecting her.
The song is better than her entire arc in the third season, imho.
And the blaming of rapunzel 🤦🏻♀️ like I’m so sorry she was kidnapped by your psychotic mom..? Like I get where the jealousy comes from. Rapunzels life really panned out really well and for the most part she’s really happy. But, that’s not really her fault. And cassandra’s bg is really heartbreaking, but she took it out on her best friend… who proceeded to give her multiple second chances. But, Cass was so sporadic the entire season.
Alright but I can’t be the only one who was mildly pissed off that all of Varian’s actual redemption happened in just one episode
It's one of those examples where I'm glad it didn't stretch out for too long, but then again I remember watching Season 3 premiere and my takeaway with that was that it was very rushed, even though rewatching it no longer felt otherwise.
I honestly hoped it would've been a little longer, but not like half a season long. It just felt rushed? like they needed to get over with his villain arc so they can move on to cassandra.
I think you guys are right- it feels super rushed after an entire season of absolute shenanigans wherein Varian wasn’t even addressed, and then it’s immediately followed up with a super dragged-out Cassandra arc
I like to think that Varian's redemption arc happened off screen, probably when he was stuck in jail, thinking about it all over and over again. The actual episode is just a conclusion. We have to remember that a year has passed between the end of season 1 and the start of season 3. -still, we could've gotten like one more episode or smth-
Actually, his redemption arc was not complete until "Be Very Afraid", up until then he still had close calls with his temper and people mistreating him for his past actions. So, it actually took a third of the season, if I'm doing my math right.
And, thinking about it, I think the reason that Varian was never told about Cassandra's betrayal is because all of them feared, up until they found him in a cage, that he would side with Cassandra if he knew she was alive and had turned against Rapunzel as he had before.
Even after he stopped the red rocks, his joy at seeing her and confusion during the fight implied he didn't even know Cassandra was alive. All he knew, probably from Andrew, is that Cassandra was "a sensitive subject".
So you COULD say his redemption wasn't complete until they knew without a doubt that he wouldn't betray them for Cassandra.
“Why is Rapunzel being so negligent towards Cass?”
The same reason she betrayed Varian; gotta force a conflict somehow.
Yeah no wraps had a good reason for varian she was stuck between a rock and a hard place
@@drkgaming7792 ... okay...was that an intentional pun?
@@Passions5555 def
@@drkgaming7792 I can respect that
The problem is that Varian had a valid reason to lash out: he wanted to save his father and he believed everyone was against him. He was an impulsive kid with no one to turn to, and he was treated as a dangerous criminal. Cassandra had no reason to attack Rapunzel and destroy the kingdom other than she just wanted to be special. She had an entire support system who she could've confided in about her struggles, but chose not to, and she was seen as a victim of everyone's shortcomings.
Ya'll keep doing this thing where you act like Rap being the reason Cassandra was left was the only reason she had to be mad, which frankly is enough reason to be mad. Rap also consisently got in Cassandra's way and forced her way of thinking onto her and caused recognation that should have been given to Cassandra to be given to herself instead. Cassandra didn't want to be 'special', she wanted the things that she was literally owed.
So tell me, if you're constantly working to be noticed and prove yourself only to have a singular person constantly screw you over, how the hell are you gonna react when you also find out the reason yo own mother left you was because she valued that person more than you. I doubt you're going to react well, especially not when you're also being manipulated by a literal fucking demon.
Guys, it doesn't matter if you're 14 or 24, but both of them had their right against Varian, they turned their backs when he needed help the most and Cassandra was robbed of her family and under the influence of zan tiri 😂
@@Dysmey_cz Exactly.
I'd boil it down to a few things
1. Varian is significantly more pitiable and his tragic backstory involves something horrible happening to a loved one rather than just to him. Cassandra's motivation is entirely self-centered. He's also a teenager whereas Cass is a grown woman.
2. Varian's descent into villainy happens in believable steps. At first he resents Rapunzel for breaking her promise. We as an audience understand why she did so but from his perspective he left his dad to slowly freeze because he thought Rapunzel would be able to help him. It's understandable that he feels betrayed when she doesn't even try, regardless of the circumstances. Then he resents Corona because they apparently treat him like a criminal for "attacking" Rapunzel during the blizzard. Even then he isn't out for revenge yet. His main goal is still to save his father, though he is a lot more willing to do things like drug the guards in order to accomplish that. He only really starts craving revenge after Rapunzel decides not to give him the flower. And even then he still mainly wants to help his dad. He only goes full villain when his plan doesn't work and he decides to kill the queen out of bitterness. Cass' betrayal on the other hand was meant to be just as shocking for the audience as it was for the characters. Sure this made for a more dramatic reveal, but at the cost of said reveal being far less earned.
3. Varian was self aware. Even if he felt like the royal family deserved his hatred he still admitted that he was the bad guy. That he was sinking pretty low. Cass acted just as evil but seemed to think she had a right to do so. She was insulted by being compared to Varian. Frankly the opposite feels more justifiable.
4. Varian feels genuine remorse, and is grateful for the chance to redeem himself. In comparison Cass flip flops. She leaves Rapunzel to die because a ghost demon tricked her and then has the gall to feel betrayed when she sees that Corona is starting to prepare for her eminent invasion. The fact that she could do all that and still feel like she deserved an apology was just awful for her character.
5. Arguably one of the biggest reasons and yet the easiest to ignore (I didn't even really think of it until long after I made this comment). Varian was a major part of about 2 episodes before queen for a day. I don't want to devalue the relationship he had with Rapunzel, Eugene, and Cassandra because he instantly had great chemistry (read alchemy) with all of them and I always considered him part of the main cast despite his few appearances. But the fact is he didn't even live in the same town as them. There is a huge difference between turning against the friendly princess you've met a few times and turning against someone who's shared multiple season's worth of life and death scenarios with you and basically sees you as a sibling in all but blood.
To sum it up where Varian feels tragic, Cass feels entitled and where Varian feels reformed, Cass just feels placated.
Also, I don't know if this really contributes, but Varian is far more impressive as a villain. Cass terrorizes the kingdom with the power of the stolen moonstone but Varian did the same with only his personal abilities. That kind of gave his character more impact especially due to the contrast with his previous bumbling antics. Honestly one of the few things that bothered me about his arc is that his competence seems inversely related to his morality. As a villain he's a force to be reckoned with who backed the entire kingdom into a corner. Literally the moment he reforms he's throwing bath bombs instead of weapons.
It's a shame that Varian centric spinoff got rejected. I feel like it would've been really fun to see his character continue to grow.
Not exactly. Varian's whole deal was just more straightforward. Rapunzel attempted to help him but he double crossed her even when she had the kingdom to deal with at the same time. Albeit she could have done something after the storm. Then there's Cass. Gothel gave her a complex that was only made worse by being straight up abandoned and then exploited by Zhan Tiri. In addition to that there was the buildup from all the way back in season 1 with "Challenge of the Brave" and "Cassandra vs Eugene". One only has to see where she's coming from to understand the arc. I think alot of people misunderstood because of how straightforward they made the story with Varian. They even miss how both are coming from completely different perspective and reasons.
@@darkshadowstorm7056 damn you here defending Cass in like every comment hating on Cass
@@houston_co7769 The contrast is interesting. Especially in "Nothing left to lose". Both straddle the line between hero and villain. Though from what I heard they had Varian as a plot device to get Rapunzel to go outside of Corona. They also have their different perspective and personality types. It's a shame they didn't greenlight the Varian spinoff. That could have added so much to the lore. But I think "Rapunzel's Return" was a good resolution episode. If only they had added more exposition somehow.
Wait SPIN-OFF?!
@@darkshadowstorm7056 mmm you have a point there
I love how King Frederic in S1 is like: Wait, no, don't pay attention to me lying my head off and not doing my job as king, pleas- OH LOOK A HEARTBROKEN 14 YEAR OLD THE PERFECT SCAPEGOAT!
Very true XD
Frederick is a very bad king, but he can be understood exactly as a person. He went to great lengths to save his wife and protect his daughter, but jeopardizing the rest. He loves his wife very much, since he went for it. His daughter was abducted and he was heartbroken for many years. And he was ready to do anything to prevent this from happening again, not realizing that he was only making it worse. He is not like the other fathers at Disney - either no, or absolutely positive. But it can also be understood. And he is not a perfect king, he is also involved in bad things, like all politicians then and now. I feel his alive, maybe a little more realistic? I like his ambiguity as a character, honestly. I can believe that a heartbroken father will do anything to protect his family, even if it is dirty methods. In the third season, he was made a laughing stock.
I didn't like the mother more because of her detachment from her daughter's affairs or a very passive reaction. I know that she could, in the early plot concepts, go on a trip with her daughter, but still it would not be very reasonable when you are literally the queen, and there has just been destruction and panic in the capital. Still, in such a situation, it is better not to leave and solve problems, since the husband does not want to. And who knows, maybe Frederick would have died suddenly, and there are only very stupid courtiers in the kingdom, as the series showed. But her participation in the life of Rapunzel in the first season at least could have shown more! Rapunzel can't love her parents when she hasn't known them all her life, just like that. They could show how their relationship is progressing, and not stupid jealousy of their aunt for one episode. How she worries, after all, for her daughter. But more often it is simple... she seems kind, calm, but she doesn't really worry about anything except a series with jealousy. I just don't remember any of her active reactions to anything, except for this series and the series where she almost married a Frenchman. Frederick is far from the best, but he was prescribed better as a character.
@@justzombie7594 That's true. Frederick does get points for not being a bland idiot. I'll be honest, my problem is that Varian is a sweet angel who can do no wrong in my eyes (exaggeration) and so anyone who does my boi harm gets the axe. LOL
@@justzombie7594 Also, nice essay. Admirable.
The awful cherry on top that ruins things more for me is how Cass never had to face any repercussions for literally trying to destroy Corona. When Varian lost, he was imprisoned with Andrew. if he hadn't escaped, he probably would have been locked up in there for much longer than a year. After he was redeemed, he stayed around to help fix all the damage he caused. When Cass was redeemed, she just left the wrecked castle behind with no punishment.
I think you got her leaving wrong😒
"Cassandra pulls a Yue and turns into the moon"
Sokka:
Rapunzel: My first girlfriend turned into the moon
Eugene: That’s rough buddy
@@0calliestar0 YOu DiD nOt!
SCREAMS THE AMBER GUN WAS A MISTAKE IM AAAA
ok but yeah this was really good!! I'm glad I'm not alone when it comes to the er...disappointment with cass's arc. She had such good potential [sobs]
im still watching this atm so id just like to point out. further motivation for varian: the time between QFAD and the finale is canonically 3 months, so he was on his own(and rapunzel ignored his situation) for at least a month, maybe two. So yeah, id have a grudge too.
@@gueswho6288 What?! It was just him in that little lab with his dead father right behind him for 3 months?! Varian nooo ;-;
@@gueswho6288 I was actually looking into how long Varian was left alone for, recently. I did some research and I think I figured it out. Apparently Rapunzel’s birthday is in May and considering that Corona is based somewhere it Europe it would be around Spring time.
The blizzard in QFAD would’ve had to be in or around winter considering that the characters weren’t surprised by the snow and seemed like they were kinda expecting it. Also, it would’ve been the first snowfall of winter or something like that because Raps said it was her first time being outside when it snowed, referring to her being in the tower whenever it snowed. This means it would’ve had to be around December-January. (I’ve never experienced snow in my life so I’m just assuming with this bit)
After the blizzard, we don’t hear of or see Varian until a couple of days before Rapunzel’s birthday in ‘The Quest for Varian’ and ‘The Alchemist returns’ so if you add everything together, I think, it would be around 4-5 months of Varian being alone with no one to check on him.
Being alone that long, no wonder he went crazy.
Also sorry about this long essay of a comment 😂, I just figured this out the other day with my friend and I thought this was the perfect opportunity to share this information.
@@7.kingdoms_cos wasn’t the blizzard magical?
Frankly, I would have LOVED to see Rapunzel get angry at Cass because she went through so much, and cass is acting like it was something to be jealous of.
Ah but her gripe wasn't against Rapunzel herself. It was what she represented. Basically, they were representing two sides of one situation. Because both were subjected to much the same.
She tried to kill Rapunzel's family many times... And she destroyed the city, almost killing its inhabitants. On the ruins of the city, the houses of people for whom Rapunzel constantly cares, is responsible and who have not done anything personally to Cassandra... Rapunzel's song about the fact that she will "give everything" for Cassandra looks like a mockery of a corpse.
@@justzombie7594 Cass' character is more complex than what's on the surface. It all started with Gothel. Even with the outfit Cass wears at the end there's a symbolic reason.
@@darkshadowstorm7056 I have a huge number of arguments AGAINST this, but I don't want to discuss it with another blind fan of Cassandra. Because you do not notice the fact that her past a) is not so dramatic b) her character is VERY hysterical specifically in the third season, it is hysterical, without logic and awareness of a 20-year-old girl, as it always was c) none of her excuses is absolutely not worth how much pain and destruction she brought. I can't respect her either as a good character, or as a positive hero, or as a negative, or as an antihero, no one, although I liked her character before and I was even ready to give her a chance as an antagonist, because I saw great potential in this. But it completely disappointed me, and I was even more disappointed with the conclusions made by the scenario. The conclusions of the script, submitted like this-it looks disgusting in the end, and it doesn't matter what they wanted to do initially. Any well-written antihero can be understood, even if his actions are terrible. But this still does not cancel out the terrible deeds. In the case of Cassandra - a complete failure. She has done a lot of terrible things, but she has no real remorse, such that it is easy for the viewer to check. There is no "arch of redemption". There is a vague scenario where the character is treated toxically, but she protects abuser, even when abuser destroys the lives of people whom this person SHOULD protect. I understand WHAT they wanted to make the character of Cassandra, and that makes it more disgusting to me what it became in the end. We didn't get a good character and we didn't get an interesting antagonist, who can be understood and really forgiven. Only emptiness and disappointment.
@@justzombie7594 It depends alot on the perspective of the viewer. The outfit at the end for example had alot of symbolic meaning. There's the green little Cass wears in the clips from "Rapunzel's Return", The Cassandrite Varian gave her, two toned gloves referencing the whole hurt incantation incident, and perhaps most importantly even the remaining fabric from her handmaiden uniform. Because Cass generally isn't a touchy feely kind of character of course her reactions seem that much more noticeable. However, depending on perspective one might not be able to see the why's. Take Rapunzel for example. As bubbly and bright as she is that didn't keep even her from having issues with Gothel. Same way even having the Captain around didn't erase the damage Gothel already did when it comes to Cass. Essentially they represent two sides of one situation. The sundrop kept Rapunzel chipper all the way to the end. While for Cass her mantra was "focus on the here and now". Hence why it became more of a mental scab. Which Zhan Tiri exploited by prodding it until it tore. To be faced directly with the memory she worked hard not to acknowledge was the point. Even if subconsciously she acted on it like in "Challenge of the Brave". Of course it wasn't an excuse at all but rather an explanation as to why.
one thing that bugged me was how much rapunzels trauma was neglected
you're telling me that she found out that the woman she thought to be her mother was a psychopath who kidnapped her, never loved her, abused her, and manipulated her her whole life and she has no trauma except for like 3 scenes?
as nancy wheeler would say "its bullshi*t"
Exactly, she deserved better writing in this show
Yeah, I wish they illustrated her trauma more. It sounds like I just want Raps to suffer, but it’s more realistic that way.
I honestly would have liked to have seen Rapunzel mourn Gothel a little if for no other reason than because she was the one she believed was her mother for all her life. Maybe show some flash backs of how screwed up her situation was with living with Gothel and have her go through the mental task of recontextualizing her interactions with her and just how fucked up her treatment was. Maybe even have her distant and shy with Arianna, her real mother who is much more open and genuine with her affections and interactions because they are so different to how Gothel acted with her. It would have been so nice to see peak inside Rapunzel's head on thongs like this. As it stands I feel like she treated her parents as though she grew up with them when she didn't.
10:30 "You know what, this is actually pretty in-character"
it is so in-character because he accidentally discovered it, and being the smart boy he is, definitely would have made it positive. Varian is this weird mix of somehow being both cynical, but also optimistic and I love him,,,
As for Xavier: I think it's a case of a lot of like. It's prose. It's stories. Varian isn't all that different from Xavier, but the difference between them makes Varian easily frustrated. Varian can talk on and on, but he's almost always providing information. He confuses people with a lot of explanations, but ultimately he's always providing important information. Xavier likes to tell legends, and often in a storytelling format, so there's set-up, and a lot of dancing around before getting to the information. That and Varian is not huge on things he can't prove. We see he does learn to appreciate it though. It's just funny how two characters who you would THINK get along, don't.
You say a lot of what I thought. The king is honestly. Awful. Honestly, Cass going for the moonstone would have worked if maybe her objectives and the breaking point was different. I would have loved if Cass had come to the realisation that the Kingdom was worse than they thought, and so she decided the only way to fix it would be to destroy it (this is something I love reading in Varian fics, because that kid had every right to be mad at the King and the decisions he made that forced Varian down this path. The King is totally unjust, and I really wish we could have seen Varian acknowledge that). It'd then make her an evolution of Varian's arc too. She doesn't get pushed down it like Varian did, but she chooses to take action, take her Destiny and use the Moonstone against Corona (and because Rapunzel is part of the Royal Family, her anger to Rapunzel is still easily explained). Cass then falls down the path of villainy not because she's blaming the wrong person, but Zhan Tiri pushes her into worse and worse choices. Zhan Tiri could have easily have flipped her story. Say that the reason she and Demanitus fought is because she learnt the Royal Family was bad. They have been abusing their power. That's obviously not something we know, and we only have the current King to go from, but what's a little lie for a demon? Zhan Tiri convinces her to do things like fighting Rapunzel and attacking Corona, all under the false pretense of this.
Meanwhile, you can easily have Rapunzel (still with a memory wiped King), realising once she's in power that... things haven't been great. Maybe a further conversation with Varian and why/how he knew Andrew when,,, the King was supposed to be helping him? But sure, lock him up with an adult criminal (though the Saporia plot line is... also questionable... but not the point). Maybe even also about things in S1 that were kind of messed up? Like. Rapunzel then uses S3 to actively try and learn the truth what her dad was doing, as well as trying to get through to Cass, but Zhan Tiri causing problems that means they never truly get to talk it out (Zhan Tiri basically escalates the situation for her own gain, proving to us that Zhan Tiri is truly the big bad, and Cass is being misguided).
It gets to the point where Cass actually kidnaps Varian. Again, Zhan Tiri has been pushing, but there's an easy way too. Zhan Tiri convinces Cass that Varian has been wronged too, and that he might be a good ally against Corona. They obviously don't know about Zhan Tiri, but when Cass tries to convince him, they get their whole song. At this point Cass is very lost, but ultimately what motivates her isn't wrong - Corona, and specifically the King, fucked up. We would see this reflected in Rapunzel in this example that Cass isn't wrong, but she's being manipulated and prevented from learning that how she's trying to fix the problem isn't right, because it's already being addressed. Varian tries to break through to Cass, but she breaks. Varian is the one person she had hoped would agree with her, because he had gone through the same thing. But he stands by Rapunzel. He doesn't get the chance to explain more because he gets put in the cage.
I could go on from here, but I think it ends up then relatively the same. Cass then plots to go to war against Corona basically, while Rapunzel and co have to start preparing for defending Corona. They don't want to, because Rapunzel still hopes she can get through to Cass, but it falls through. (I don't know how the Gothel cottage episode would fit, and honestly in this I'd just remove it. The Gothel twist was cool, but Cassandra could have a way better motivation for her villain arc) So in this, it means that Cass still goes to talk to Rapunzel. She pretends to be Faith, and she slowly realises that there's been changes in Corona (though she never discovers the full extent, just enough to think that maybe she can come back). The Zhan Tiri does her thing, Rapunzel tries to get people to stand down. They remain prepared, but do ofc, but. Zhan Tiri happens again too. Cass takes being attacked as a sign that while things may have begun changing, they aren't actually better, and Rapunzel is emulating her father by condemning her (ouch), and so. She decides sure. She'll be the villain if it means wiping Corona off the map and getting rid of what she thinks is still a corrupt kingdom. Finale goes very much the same too. Cass doesn't trust Zhan Tiri either, she and Rapunzel fight, but finally get to talk, something that should be keenly avoided prior to this point. All conversations between them needed to have been cut off, interrupted or warped in some way, all by Zhan Tiri, and now Zhan Tiri has the power, she lets them talk properly, because what are they gonna do?
I went on a lot, but like. I have feelings about the Moon Cass arc, and just. There's a legit reason to hate Corona,,, sob
Yeah I agree with all of that, and when you think about it the political state of Corona is a mess lol. First they had the king’s coverup of the rocks to the point where Old Corona was basically destroyed, then Rapunzel went away for a bit and they were immediately taken over by a terrorist group and forced into slavery. Then there was peace for a little bit but now Cassandra is threatening to destroy the kingdom so it’s time to start up the war effort again, only for an ancient demon to almost destroy the entire world. It must really suck to live in Corona lol
That would have been better. I completely agree that all Cass and Raps conversations should have been cut off by someone or something most of witch would probably have been Zhan Tiri stopping the conversation but they could do some other things as well to prevent from the repetition. With this the Mother Gothel storyline doesn’t play much of a part. The thing that makes me sad if that isn’t included is we don’t get Waiting In The Wings Reprise and I do like that song and it did make me cry. If they wanted to have the Mother Gothel storyline contribute to that then they should have had Cass remember Mother Gothel through rose colored glasses and thinks that she actually loved her. Mother Gothel is good at making ppl think she cares. If what Cass saw was love but the audience knows isn’t then that would make more sense for her to be mad at Raps
If you’re not already one, you should consider a hobby or career in writing- this was so well thought out and described, and quite detailed
I LOVED all of these ideas but why would destroying the entire kingdom to get rid of corruption be a logical thought process in Cass' mind? Overthrowing the royal family, sure, destroying the castle and aristocracy because they've proven themselves unreliable leaders, great. But the entire kingdom's destruction is a bit much haha
At least she then would've made sense
I felt the exact same way. Cassandra’s whole story left me frustrated. Like she turned evil because she was mad at Rapunzel for something she had no control over. Cassandra knew her mother was an egotistical, selfish liar and abuser, but she’s mad at Rapunzel for “stealing” her mother even though Rapunzel was a baby. And then she tries to kill her old friends multiple times because she’s jealous and spiteful for something they had no part in. But by far the worst episode for me was Once A Handmaiden. Because Cassandra is all like “am I the bad guy 😭” like yeah no sh*t you tried to kill your friends and adoptive father. And then when she discovers the Rapunzel is creating a weapon against her because god forbid Rapunzel try to defend her kingdom from this murderer, she acts like this is some great betrayal even though she’s been trying to kill Rapunzel for a while now. And then in the finale, when Cassandra loses all of her dark power and has nothing, she’s plays the victim to get Rapunzel to feel bad for her. It’s actually the laziest writing I’ve ever seen for a villain. This whole story is just Cassandra “playing the victim” and it’s really badly handled.
See her gripe wasn't against Rapunzel herself. It was projection. As young as Cass was she likely associated Rapunzel with being abandoned. Not only that but the scenes from "Rapunzel's Return" and "Waiting in the Wings Reprise" say it all. Little Cass is waiting at her window as always when the guards rush the place. Then she spots Gothel. While holding that music box (which is a big metaphor) she calls out to Gothel. Which gets the guards to try and chase her. But she cuts the bridge and rides off. Seeing this little Cass drops the music box breaking it. Notice how even when it's in pieces Cass tries to pick it up.Then she's taken in by the Captain. However, all little Cass tearfully says is "I want my mama". That scene alone shows just how much it affected her and how much she craved that attention. The point of "Once a Handmaiden" is Cass wasn't full villain. If she were she wouldn't think twice about making any sort of apology. Not to mention we see how the townsfolk reacted when Zhan Tiri pulled off the robe. They automatically assumed Cass was attacking when she was just standing there. I mean look at the way they portrayed her in the play and on the poster. No wonder she didn't want to appear as herself.
@@darkshadowstorm7056 yeah but still. The way that scene is framed and the things she says, it makes it seem like Cass is mad that Rapunzel is trying to use force to stop her from hurting people since she clearly can’t be reasoned with. And that’s just.... very wrong. And again, the townspeople aren’t wrong for hating her. Cassandra was already not a very nice person before she became evil, and now that she’s evil, of course people want to stop her. And Cassandra knows this, but she’s still mad at Rapunzel for defending her kingdom. That’s just bad character writing.
@@ethan1969 Not exactly. Cass was attempting to make amends but Zhan Tiri manipulated the situation which caused the all out fight. Rapunzel tells Cass that she still believes that she is a good person. But then Zhan Tiri set off Varian's weapon which most likely made Cass think Raps was lying. Hence the "You want me to be the bad guy, fine now I'm the bad guy" line. Before that Cass wasn't harming anything until they provoked her to. Notice the poster. They made a devil-esque caricature of Cass while they made a heroic looking picture of Raps. Cass is a more complicated character than what's on the surface. She may rib Eugene every so often but it's all in fun. There's a scene in season one that shows that. Eugene says "I can't tell you what a treat it is to be spending so much time with a cold-blooded dead-eyed bird of prey". Cass says "Owls are warm blooded genius". Eugene then says "I wasn't talking about the owl". To which Cass says "Oh-hoo-hoo, I guess I walked right into that one." She may not be Raps level bubbly and have a cynical nature but Cass does truly care about her friends in her own way. Considering what Gothel put her through that's quite an achievement. Look at Eugene. In "Queen for a Day" and "Fitzherbert P.I." it's Cass who pushes him to do good. He even ends up being Captain of the guards. Going from a thief to that is a total 180 and it was partly due to Cass' influence. Heck she even covers for him in "Cassandra vs Eugene" by fixing the kings favorite vase. Eugene even acknowledged that in the end by saying "But Cass, you were worth fighting for".
Just one thing I wanna say:
*Hans’ writing still feels lazier*
Other than that I agree with everything and I wish the writers had put more effort into it.
Again she was in denial of her mother’s behaviour
I wish Cass became a good guy earlier and somehow lead the guards to defeat Zhan Tiri... that would complete her arc of wanting to be a part of the guard- would’ve been way more full circle and right for her character.
I agree with this one. It would be nice to see Zhan Tiri's manipulating plan fail a least for a bit, where Rapunzel lets Cassandra's guard down, and basically have the first redemption plotpoint part of "Once Upon a Maiden" transfer to wrap up nicely in the end of "Tale of the Two Sisters".
I agree. I felt her “redemption” was weak and a little too late
She did, in the ending.🥰 But I see your point though.
I didn’t think about the fact that Cass has already given up when she sings Waiting In The Wings. That’s an interesting point
I call Cass' ending as "the writers pulled a Sasuke"
With the ending I think that would also mean she turned herself into an Itachi.
That’s exactly what I was thinking when I finished the series. Sasuke’s descent to villainy was better executed anyways
@@HermitPurple Well depends. Sasuke was dead set on revenge for his clan. So none of his personality shone through. He basically tells everyone that no one gets him. Even Naruto who besides Kakashi would know better than most. Only Kakashi sort of got through to him. Itachi egged him on out of pennance. I think him being a "villain" was the better arc between the two. Cass has a whole other perspective and reason. It won't necessarily compare as easily.
@@darkshadowstorm7056 My comparison to Sasuke is literally just "the writers have no way to redeem this person back into society for Happily Ever After, so they Set Them On A Journey". Which feels lazy, because even Varian got to have *some* adjustment of villain to good guy. Cass got chucked into the woods.
@@ADragonAmongRoses True. Though for Cass specifically I think it makes a bit more sense. To be away from Corona and Gothel's shadow did seem like a good move. They also set up a plotline where she was going to join that tribe of warriors. As for Sasuke well Kakashi striked that deal so he wouldn't be jailed. I wish they had greenlit the Varian spinoff. Maybe they could've done a full redemption beyond Rapunzel's Return.
Varian at least had the excuse of not only being young with understandable reasons, but being the first character with this ark. By the time we got to Cass, we were exhausted of that storytelling. Imagine if Varian and Cass switched the time of the arks. Varian probably wouldn't have been as popular as he is now.
Similar methods but not the same reasons. Yes, both wanted the attention of their parents. However, the reasons are different. See Cass had a whole other perspective than Varian. Varian was constantly dismissed by Quirin. Which is the whole point of "Let me make you proud". However, what set him off was Raps going back on her promise even when the kingdom needed her attention at that moment. Then there's Cass. Gothel gave her a complex because of her narcissistic nature and then subsequently abandoning her. The scenes in "Rapunzel's Return" and "Waiting in the Wings Reprise" say it all. Little Cass is waiting at her window as always. When she spots Gothel. Then the guards are surrounding the place. Cass holding that music box (the only thing she had from Gothel that proved she "cared") calls out to Gothel. The guards turn and attempt to capture Gothel but she cuts the bridge and rides off. Seeing this little Cass drops the music box breaking it which is a big metaphor. Notice how even if its in pieces Cass tries to pick it up.Then the Captain takes her in. But all little Cass says is "I want my mama". That scene alone shows just how much she craved that attention. Only to have even the smallest amount she had ripped away from her. Her character is much more complicated than what's on the surface. Varian's whole thing was just more straightforward.
@Dark Shadow Storm Thank you for the explanation. I never saw it that way.
@ngocthach4020 Well not every character will be as easy to understand at first. Take Carmen Sandiego for example. She's a master thief who steals for the challenge of it all. She could be a full on villain according to some perspectives. Or one can at times see the nuance of her being a "thief with a conscience" by her saving the very detectives that chase her. It all comes down to perspective. It may be more difficult for some than others because of one's own worldview.
@ngocthach4020 It was a mix of Cass as a character and the exposition from season one. One can follow the story line by starting with "Challenge of the Brave" and "Great Expotations". We get the general sentiment that the other competitors were teasing Cass by saying she was only able to compete because she's Rapunzel's handmaiden. As well as Cass wanting to make the Captain proud by taking on her first guard assignment. It's even part of the episode "Not in the mood". Then there's "Cassandra vs Eugene" and "Big Brothers of Corona". Which both allude to Gothel in some way. As a character Cass does state at various points that she's not the touchy feely type. She's just not one to spill her feelings and thoughts as easily as say Rapunzel. But she does confide in others when needed. Like with the Captain about the convent and Eugene about parents. Even if she didn't want to get into the details.
@ngocthach4020 Exactly, but it was Eugene who ended up being the Captain's successor. Hence "Waiting in the Wings". Despite pulling double duty and being the one to lead the guards when the Captain was down it didn't result in any permanent change. Which is why she rides off at the end. To find her own way.
Omg this was a great analysis!! u literally captured everything I thought about varian and cass’s villain arch too👏👏
Thanks, I’m glad you liked it!
Varian's villian arc actually had a reason meanwhile Cassandra's was just BOOM!! villian time
I believe you missed a very important point on why Varian works so well
•Jeremy Jordan
👏🏻!!!
his voice acting in queen for a day is absolutely devstating in the best way possible
Everything about Varian's character amazes me, his personality, his fall in villainy, and his redemption especially. I love everything about him, as a. character, and I consider him the best character in the whole series.
Agreed! His redemption arc was so great and it personally made me ecstatic to see him on screen again.
Varian: Loses his dad, suffers constant insecurities about how disappointing of a son he is, and feels betrayed by Rapunzel because she didn’t try to help him fix it at all and never came searching for him afterwards.
Cass: Had some mommy issues when she was 4, which were cancelled out by the Captain (a legit good guy) adopting her as his own. Oh yeah, and she apparently felt like she was overlooked, even though she was on-track to become Captain after her dad and was included on Rapunzel and Eugene’s crazy adventures as the third part of their trio.
I think we can all see why the Cass arc was floppish compared to the Varian arc. They tried to set it up wayyyyyy too late in the game and didn’t give good enough motives to show enough of a change in Cass. A better hook would’ve been that (as the Guard and the Royal Family seemed to know that Cass was Gothel’s daughter) Cass figures out that it was hidden from her this whole time and she feels betrayed. She would resent that Rapunzel was all that her mother cared about and feel that she was being strung along only so that she didn’t become a problem (she would think that Rapunzel and Eugene only bring her along so much to stop her from becoming evil, as she would feel was true after how cautious they were that she would betray them). She would think that she was constantly overlooked by the Palace because of her past and would feel resent for her mother and for her adoptive father for allowing that to happen. She would take the Moon Stone like a sad, angry child instead of a suddenly-evil villain.
That whole thing about Cass loving her mother and blaming Rapunzel for everything was such bs. Cass really should’ve hated Gothel too, and resented the Royal Family and her Adoptive Father for keeping her so that she doesn’t turn evil later and never allowing her to shine because of her parentage. She would resent Rapunzel for her power, ability to always get out of bad situations, status, and even her relationship with Eugene (Cass got tricked by Andrew earlier in the show).
BAM. Came up with that in like 2 minutes.
They came up with the cass arc in 1 minute
Cass wasn't tricked by Andrew, she was on to him since day one and played along with his game to get one over on him. She also seemed genuinely attracted to him and was enjoying the ride of their romance between them even though she was aware of his game.
We love Varian. Amazing hero, and an amazing villian.
Indeed.
The Cassandra betrayal arc feels 100% like an old Shamalan twist. They wanted to write a scene that'll really shock the audience more than they wanted a story beat that will fit within the narrative. And they got that. It was a very shocking season two finale at the time, but now that it's all finished and we can look at the narrative as a whole, you see just how much it doesn't work.
But wasn’t it foreshadowed?🤔
It felt like they were in over their heads a bit.
@@gracekim25 It was foreshadowed that Rapunzel and her would split apart, there's no doubt about that. My problem isn't really that it happened. My problem with it lies in the execution. It's kind of like this. Imagine that you set up a mystery where the reveal is 'the butler did it'. It's a well put together mystery, just enough clues are set up that it gives the audience a chance to figure it out, but not enough that it was revealed too early. And then When the mystery is solved and everyone asks why the butler did it, the answer makes no sense and then the butler proceeds to run off to do more things that make no sense.
It does feel pretty predictable, like when her betrayal happen in season 2, I was like "HOLY SHIT" but watching season 3 and hearing her motive and all she put Raps through that season, I was like "Bitch scuze me?"
@@gracekim25 I watched the entire show for the first time and I knew from the beginning Cass was going to be evil at some point, so i watched season 2 closely. 1 ep before the finale and i still couldn't see why she would do that.
And then in season 3 they tried to fix it by dumping a bunch of backstory on us that doesn't work anymore because it feels like they are retconning her to be a sympathetic villain.
Also, the whole "cassandra struggles with being a villain but she is forced to be this way" they tried to pull off in season 3 makes no sense.
Cassandra doesn't want to be the villain. Rapunzel doesn't want her to be the villain. Cassandra wants to talk. Rapunzel wants to talk. YET NONE OF THEM DO THE RIGHT THING BECAUSE PLOT REASONS I GUESS. Also, Cassandra getting manipulated so easily in the third season was... quite a bit out of character. Like, she is set up as a smart, not easily trusting character yet she believes the first scary ghost child she sees without asking A SINGLE question? Like, even i could figure out that that child was zhan tiri well before the reveal (that also doesn't make sense, like why would an ancient evil that is spending their time brooding tell the one person that can stop them that they exist?) so why couldn't cass?
The first season was awesome, the second season was ok but this shows third season... well they probably fired all their writers or something because not a single thing makes sense when it comes to character writing and motivations.
You have to take into account that King Frederick knew about the rocks but kept them a secret and Varian was accused of attacking Rapunzel during the blizzard and became a wanted fugitive. Also he was chased out of his village by masked guards who were after his father's scroll on the king's orders. His fall to villainy makes more sense in light of all of this
I find it baffling yet telling that they have these elements of Varian being legitimately mistreated by Rapunzel's Dad present in the story, but the writers bend over backwards to gloss it over in an attempt to make it vague at the same time. I find it weird that the story does not show us what was happening to Varian on his end between getting kicked out of the castle during the blizzard and when he sends Rapunzel his note pleaing for help. I think it reeks of insecurity on the writers part of them fearing that if they showed more of Varian's turmoil with being shunned by people for "attacking the princess" and being driven out and harassed by the disguised castle guards from his home we would take his side in this conflict. Boy did they screw the pooch on that one! 😂🤣😂🤣 but seriously, we only get vague dialogue on what he was putting up with going through all that. The writers not showing his perspective during all that, shows the writers worry of the audience taking his side when they want us to sympathize Rapunzel.
Yep.
There's one more reason why the writing in Cassandra's villain arc is terrible. As you mentioned, Varian crossed over to the dark side for a few episodes at the end of Season 1 and he did some truly messed-up stuff, like trying to murder Rapunzel and her friends and trying to raze Corona to the ground. When he returned in Season 3, he not only showed remorse for his actions, but he also stepped up to save Corona multiple times in multiple episodes, like "Be Very Afraid", "Cassandra's Revenge" and "Plus Est En Vous". By the end of Season 3, he earned the audience's forgiveness.
By comparison, Cassandra's villain arc is stretched out over an entire season. During that time, she knowingly puts the safety of everyone in the entire world in danger for her own self-gain by running off with the Moonstone. She tries to brutally murder her old 'friends' multiple times out of jealousy and spite (whether it's trying to make Lance and Eugene fall to their deaths in a huge chasm, or trying to crush Rapunzel to death with a stone pillar). She repeatedly accuses Rapunzel of setting out to steal her mother's 'love' from her, despite knowing full well what kind of person Gothel was and what kind of hell she put Rapunzel through, because the only thing she cares about is how Gothel hurt her. She has zero ethical problems with using magic to turn members of the Brotherhood into her mind-controlled slaves so she can get what she wants. She's perfectly okay with Zhan Tiri trapping Calliope in a living hell for all eternity so she can get what she wants. When she realizes the people of Corona might never take her back and that the consequences of her two-faced actions might be permanent, she decides to destroy Corona's capitol and leave hundreds of people homeless out of spite.
And then, in the final episode of the entire show, Zhan Tiri makes off with the moonstone and leaves Cassandra with nothing to show for her actions, so she decides to cry her eyes out to Rapunzel about how sorry she is. Cassandra finally decides to act like the grown woman that she is and clean up her mess by helping Rapunzel fight Zhan Tiri. Then she dies for like thirty seconds before Rapunzel revives her. Then all is forgiven and she's off to go find her destiny. That's basically it as far as Cassandra's 'redemption arc' goes. This show went out of its way to make Cassandra a terrible, terrible person in every way possible - like considerably worse than Season 1 Varian - and then it devoted way less time to redeeming her character and trying to get the audience to forgive her than it did with Varian. She basically got off scot free for everything because one, she was the main character's BFF, and two, Rapunzel had already been simping for her all season (even while Cassandra was trying to kill them all) and that's pretty messed up.
It is! Even worse is she barely did jack to redeem herself. Varian meanwhile, earned the forgiveness of others by making up for his actions multiple times over -proving without a shadow of a doubt that he's changed for the better and is worthy of trust.
Couldn’t have worded it any better.
Um....just remember she’s in denial of her mother being terrible 😅
@@anamariaramirez9341 She barely had time left in the SEASON to redeem herself. The issue is with the writing forcing her to be a completely different character to the extreme and then stretching it out so far that they have virtually no time to redeem her for it. Don't confuse Cassandra as the problem here. She's a VICTIM of blatant character assassination for the vast majority of season 3.
Just saying, when I saw what Corona looked like after Cassandra's attack, it sure looked like she did a lot more to those people than just leave them homeless.
Varian:Commits a crime because he was a broken,sad,desperate child and gets jail time and basically abuse.Pays for his crime for the rest of his life with guilt and the town hating him
Cassandra:LITERALLY DESTROYS THE KINGDOM…leaves to “dIsCoVer hErSelF”
When it comes to Varian it was mostly King Frederick's fault. He told Rapunzel they'd get Varian "help". But as shown it didn't turn out that way. Without Raps there, it's likely the same would've happened to Cass. Or it may have been because he kidnapped Arianna. As for Cass, there's way more layers to it. The ending had alot of symbolism. Though it could have used more exposition.
@@darkshadowstorm7056Very true. Fred said he won't put children in jail, even after Angry and Catalina committed several crimes. Then he put Varian in jail after telling Raps that he would get help for the poor baby. :(
“Then Varian gets kidnapped but Cass for a hot second, but we’ll cross that bridge when we get there.” IM CROSSING THE *LINEEEEEEE*
I’m not funny ;(
Gotta dramatically cut those bridges, it runs in the family
I love it
when crossing the line 💔😔
I can see why
@11CA1-22- Phùng Lai Như Phương
...but it was actually funny.
I know you probably won’t believe me about this part, but I often let my little brother use my phone and I don’t watch tts much ( though I’m starting to get interested) so I’m pretty sure this was him. You know how many children love this series? And there’s a good chance you’re replying to one of them when you do make a reply. So congratulations, you just told a child they weren’t funny
i really would like to see at least a comic strip about Varian working through his trauma. shooting stuff at pictures of cass was a start to working through his trauma, but jeez this kid has really gone through it. he’s most likely going to have to deal with the guilt of nearly destroying corona for the rest of his life, not to mention having to watch his father being encased and being betrayed by the saporians, and he doesn’t have any relationships other than quiran in old corona. i also would like to point this out, nobody talks about this- when he was grieving for what seemed to be his forever lost father, he got to watch rapunzel, to him, the source of all his problems, be with both her parents. her dad wasn’t stuck in amber, her mother wasn’t gone.
also, since the fandom missed varian in the second season, in that one prison barge episode, that would’ve been a good time to pop him in there. he could’ve maybe helped eugene, since he isn’t mad at eugene and max. he’s mad at rapunzel. also i wanna see how those specific villains would’ve treated him, they aren’t as cynical as the saporians are.
i also find great about varian’s redemption arc that he was a bit more frustrated and kind of cold after he got redeemed, but he was softening up a bit over time. and at the end, he was almost back to normal. he had changed, but for the better.
I noticed he was quick to anger after his redemption. I personally felt his snappy attitude with Xavier felt out of character. Like, really? You're going to get pissy with the one person in the kingdom who not only isn't actively shunning you but also didn't mind being paired up with you in a tresure hunt? I would think he would be grateful, not getting annoyed at a few long winded legends. Xavier even seemed mildly pleased to be partnered up with you and treated you nicely the whole time.
Tbh I hate how Rapunzel even after the disaster never checked in on varian. She knew he needed help and she had free time. So why did she never even think, Maybe I should go to varian. This REALLY bothered me.
You captured my feelings on this perfectly!
The thing that always bothered me about Cass' villain arc was that it was just never logical to me. She's blaming Rapunzel for...being kidnapped? As a baby? What? At least with Varian, he blamed Rapunzel for, you know, a choice that she actively made, that had negative consequences for him. Not to mention, like you said in the video, Cass actually got the better deal because she was adopted by a loving father and raised in a palace while Raps was trapped with the emotionally abusive Gothel for most of her life, entirely against her will. Cass is a fully-grown woman who is aware of all of this, yet she somehow still chooses to hate and blame Rapunzel for a whole season. It made her seem really stupid, not at all like the clever, cool character she'd been in seasons 1&2. Talk about a character butchering.
(Actually, the show came rather close to acknowledging that point during an exchange in Cassandra's Revenge....I forget the exact dialogue, but Rapunzel told Cass she'd been kidnapped and held against her will, and all Cass had to say was "w-well...you pushed her out the window!! So there! >:(" to which Raps replies "you weren't there!!!" and completely forgets to mention that Gothel tripped and fell out the window and wasn't pushed at all,,,,,the writing in this arc was so sloppy it kills me, man. Especially after how good the first two seasons were.)
Also, while I get what you're saying about the buildup to the arc, even that felt pretty disjointed and awkward to me. For example, the first time I heard "Waiting in the Wings," I remember thinking, "um, didn't Cass already get her moment to shine at the end of the last season? When she led the assault? Why is she still upset?" And looking back, the conflict of that episode was that she felt her opinions weren't being taken seriously, so...why is she singing about wanting to do something great and be noticed or whatever? Seemed like a weird shift to bring back a problem that I already thought had been solved. The episode Rapunzel: Day One had this problem too--maybe I'm naive and not good at picking up on little nuances but I genuinely thought that episode had wrapped up the conflict between them from Great Tree. They talked it out, there was an apology, albeit awkward, they're best friends again, and it's over right? Nah, once again the writers just opened it back up for no apparent reason because they confuse "buildup" with "constantly bringing back problems that should have already been resolved."
Not to mention the betrayal feels like even more whiplash after the episode Freebird. Remember when Rapunzel sacrificed herself to save Cass? Remember when Cass cried over her and said Rapunzel was her best friend? Yeah, totally someone who's gonna betray her later. And the weak reasoning behind the betrayal makes it worse.
...I wanted to say some stuff about Varian too, but I've already left an essay in your comments so I'll shut up now haha. I'm just glad someone else pointed out how silly the whole thing is. Great video!
Her gripe wasn't against Rapunzel but what Rapunzel represented. It was that Gothel gave Cass a whole complex because of her narcissistic nature. Made worse by being abandoned. Things that happen in those first five years have a big impact even much farther down the road. It makes sense why it affected her so much. Especially with Zhan Tiri fueling it all. It's all explained in "Waiting in the Wings Reprise". It's why that mirror scene mattered so much to her. Because of who Gothel was Cass never felt important to her despite craving her attention. Which is why even when Gothel rode off she still called after her. Rapunzel was only a stand in for what kept Gothel from giving her that attention.That mirror was the validation she wanted all that time.
@@darkshadowstorm7056 If her gripe wasn’t with Rapunzel, why did she want revenge against her so badly to the point where she nearly killed her & her friends? And why in the world would she be jealous of the attention Gothel gave Rapunzel when she knows that it was an emotionally abusive, manipulative relationship and Rapunzel was essentially held captive for 18 years? Especially when Cassandra was the one who grew up with a loving adoptive parent? Her motivations for her villain arc seemed disjointed to me and made little sense.
@@leeb.3095 Projection on Cass' part. Being as young as she was she most likely associated Rapunzel with being abandoned. In her eyes Rapunzel represented everything that kept Gothel away from her. Hence blaming what Rapunzel represented rather than Gothel's narcissism. Which she only sees after finding that missing piece of the mirror. The "Waiting in the Wings Reprise" is the most important aspect of it all. Cass craved Gothel's attention as her mother but never felt important to her because of who Gothel was. In addition, she wanted to prove herself as more than a handmaiden or bodyguard. Which makes sense considering Eugene of all characters was chosen as captain. Her actions in Corona were to get ahold of the moonstone's power. Which is why she went after the Demanitus scroll.
@@leeb.3095 You're thinking in a rational way but that's not how children of abusive parents think. Cass is actually very well written but most people who have decent relationship with their parents seem to not get it.
@Pam Mbemba Cass was treated much the same as Rapunzel. Both were left alone alot of the time and were subjected to Gothel's narcissistic nature. Rapunzel had nightmares about Gothel despite being free from the tower. That's Cass' mother. Imagine with who Cass is just how much more of an impact that has. If even Raps, the most bubbly character in existence, still has issues with Gothel it's no wonder Cass' does too. Add to that the fact that Cass was abandoned. Notice the music box. It served as the only thing Cass had from Gothel that proved she "cared". Which is why she asked for it to be wound so much. There's a scene in "Rapunzel's Return" that shows just how much it affected her. Little Cass is calling after Gothel but she cuts the bridge to keep the guards from chasing her and leaves Cass all alone. Seeing this, little Cass drops that music box breaking it (a huge metaphor). Notice how even when it's in pieces Cass still tries to pick it up. Then the Captain takes her in but all little Cass manages to tearfully say is "I want my mama". It's no wonder it was such a big deal. Cass couldn't have been more than five at the time. She projects on Rapunzel not as herself but rather what she represented. Notice how in "Happiness is" Cass' happiest moment from the statue is swordfighting with the Captain. Even in "Cassandra vs Eugene" among others we see how much she valued his opinion. It's just that things that happen in those first five years have a big impact even much farther down the road.
I love that Varian wasn't a real bad guy. He fought to free his father and when he saw no other way out he takes to more drastic measures. The only time he snapped was after he realized his father would be trapped in the amber forever. (basically death) In the end, his story is a tragedy.
The thing is, that Cass was perfect for a villain. She was just bad for a villain that was supposed to be REDEEMED.
The "blame everything on rapunzel" angst ark maybe could've worked for a whole season if Cassandra had more of a plan after she got the moonstone for what came next and if Rapunzel had screwed up Cassandras plans throughout the season then Cass just saying "my shit mother kidnapped my ex-best friend and it's all Rapunzel's (AKA: the V IC T I M S ' ) fault, not my shit mothers'."
You know, I never realized how much Cass victim-blamed(shamed?) until I watched this. She victim shamed both Rapunzel AND Varian. The only hate I have towards Nothing Left To Lose was the very fact that Cassandra basically told Varian that his feelings and the reasons for his villain ark were not invalid and that HER hatred towards Rapunzel was. She flat out said "You lost your nerve, you lost the game. But you and I, we're not the same. I'm not lost, this fate was mine to choose", and that just makes me so angry. Varian was lost big time but so was she but she literally shoved him and what happened to him out the window, ignoring his pleas and very good reasoning to SEE REASON and stop trying to justify her way too over the top actions. At that part of the series, Varian is canonically 16 and Cassandra is around 23 yet Cassandra is spitting out words that a teenager would say to their parents the "you will never understand what I'm going through" shit. Don't get me wrong, I love Cassandra but she blamed Rapunzel for what her MOM did, shat on Varian for having a mental breakdown because he was ignored, his best friend was unable to keep a promise to protect him, and his father was pretty much GONE (and he knew that it was his fault for the amber) and he was a FOURTEEN-YEAR-OLD KID! I could go on more rants sooooooo many rants but I should probably stop now
And listening to the song made me think about how much worse Varian had things than Cass and it made her seem even more overdramatic lol
EXACTLY 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 omg yes. I also have problems with how they handled rapunzels character in the show but i completly acree with what you just said and what us stated i the video
Something else that bugged me with Cass’s arc when they tried to redeem her they even had that go on for too long. I would have liked if she came to the conclusion more for herself that this isn’t what she wanted to do instead of her realizing she’s the bad guy because she’s working with Zhan Tiri. I do agree that if they wanted it to last a full season the writing needed to change
Yeah she was written horribly. I vibe with the under-appreciation thing, but it’s just too selfish of a reason to be a full-blown villain and expect sympathy.
Although as an older sibling, I do understand the “you’re younger than me, so what could you know” thing lol 😂
Remember that time Cass kidnapped and drugged a child in his sleep?
I do!! She kidnapped Varian
Remember the time that Varian crushed Cassandra and Arianna with a giant robot, with no remorse? Remember when Varian drugged the ENTIRE kingdom?
Not excusing Cassandra’s actions here at all, but Varian did do these things and they kinda get overlooked and excused, when Cass’ don’t, even though she was manipulated and controlled by the moonstone throughout the whole thing, while Varian was just acting on his own.
@ngocthach4020 But that’s got nothing to do with the characters, that’s to do with how much time the writers had to fit everything in. It’s stated that Cass fully redeemed off-screen.
@ngocthach4020 Not true, that’s not how story writing works, that would be telling you, rather than showing and leaving it up to interpretation
@ngocthach4020 No, it would be telling. Just because it’s on screen, doesn’t mean you’re not showing your audience. What I meant by telling, is not giving the viewer the chance to come up with their own interpretation of events, and rather having those events just spoonfed to them. Showing, not telling, is a very important method to use in writing, especially screenwriting. You don’t want to give too much away.
I wish they had had Cass realize she had been manipulated at the very end of the mid-season just as Zhan Tiri regains her physical form. Then the second half of the season could have been Cass working with Rapunzel to fix the mess she created and banish Zhan Tiri once and for all... and also work through the feelings that made her so easy to manipulate in a healthy communication type of way.
THIS is what I was saying from the beginning! The writers had absolutely no excuse to drag he villain arc out as long as they did. It's just.. **Sigh** Those stupid writers made my favorite character into something people will only seem to remember as a stain on the show. She's NOT a bad character or a bad person. She's a VICTIM of character assassination, but no one seems to be able to separate the two. It's painful that the only places I can express or find love for the character are effectively echo chambers that won't speak of season 3's terrible characterization of her (minus the flashbacks and Once a Handmaiden).
THIS
A TTS analysis?? in 2021?? I LOVE it! Great Analysis, I was waiting for someone to cover it 👏👏
It’s always the right time for a TTS analysis! Hahaha
@@0calliestar0 so right 😌
There's also the fact the producers at some point forgot that _Rapunzel is the Sunstone,_ it's not some external thing that can just be taken off of her like the Moonstone.
yea I really wished cass and raps had become this duo of warriors with cool powers which i thought was foreshadowed when they had to cooperate and i thought it would explain why cass felt like it was her destiny to take the moonstone... maybe cuz it _was_ her destiny??
Edit: it really felt like they pulled a reversal at the end so the ending of the movie still makes sense
Very nice! I like that you said you weren’t blaming or faulting Rapunzel for not being able to handle a hiccup in her relationship with Cass. The problem isn’t Rapunzel, the problem is the writing. Thank you for saying this.
Also, I agree that we needed more episodes with Varian to make his betrayal more emotionally impactful. Have him interact more with Rapunzel and build their relationship before it falls apart. Also, his redemption post Rapunzel’s Return would have been more emotionally satisfying if they had shown more of him struggling to reinsert himself back into society. Show people shunning him, referencing his actions as a walking disaster and traitor. (Still think Red’s werewolf episode would have been GREAT to show people’s fear, anger, and wariness of Varian.)
And For Pete’s sake, SHOW US him and Quirin mending their relationship! They had some MAJOR things to talk about. Varian’s mishaps and bad choices, Quirin’s past and secrets, how they struggled to connect in the years prior to the show’s opening.
Okay, I’m done now. Thanks in advance for reading this! And for posting this video. It was well thought out, well articulated, and well edited.
this thisthis this THIS THIS this thisthsisthsi THIS THIS ALL OF THISALLLLLOFTHISSSSSS
I admit I remember being curious by his tattoo
I wanted this so badly 😢
'' you pretty much forgets he exists''
that's where your wrong because we varian fangirls lie awake each night waiting to see when he would be back
They very clearly didn’t decide on Cas’ story line until ages into production as a result:
-They didn’t give her enough opportunity to show us how much she cared about her ambitions (she did not get excited at every chance she got to be a guard despite this being her main goal, if she had we would have cared about her a lot more)
-They didn’t show enough examples of her sacrificing her ambitions for Rapunzel
-They didn’t show how these examples affected her in the episodes afterwards
-They didn’t establish well WHY she wants what she wants
-The Gothel kid reveal needed to happen earlier and more publicly So we could see Cassandra struggle with it more, it needed more build up
-Zhan Tiri kinda just wasn’t super needed :/ + the twist ZHAN TIRI WAS A GIRL also took away from it cause you kinda feel cheated by them calling her “him” this whole series
Conclusion: it wasn’t necessarily that the arc was bad, but the build up and execution was terrible
Well actually they started way back in season 1 with "Challenge of the Brave" and "Great Expotations". Where Cass joins a competition to be the best warrior. However, Raps joins too and steals her spotlight. In one of the first episodes Cass risked being sent to a convent just for helping Rapunzel. As for Zhan Tiri well all the knowledge was very old so it makes sense why not all of it was correct. The rest as far as Cass was concerned was fleshed out in season part of season 2 and 3. We see how much Gothel affected her and they did it in one scene. From "Rapunzel's Return". All little Cass tearfully says when the captain takes her in is "I want my mama". Accompanied by that music box breaking which is a big metaphor.
I don't like her arch, but I agree, it would be MUCH better this way. Correctly placed accents strongly solve the situation.
Interestingly, Cass was meant to betray Rapunzel at some point as far back as the pitch phase. Varian was actually created as a plot device to get Rapunzel on the road to the dark kingdom and was conceived much later.
I lost all respect for Cass during this arc. She victim blamed Rapunzel, put her own want for power above everybody else’s safety and just acted completely selfish and childish, and never even really apologized for it when she got “redeemed”. Her character was always a bit selfish, and she kind of always invalidated other people’s pain, but that character flaw of hers came out to the extreme during this arc. She hurt literally everybody who cared about her and her one excuse for it was that she was never “given what she deserved”. The way she blamed Rapunzel for getting kidnapped and thus “stealing” her mother’s attention was literally disgusting and toxic, and then to go on and try to kill rapunzel, one of the only people whose ever put faith in her and befriended her, and never seemed guilty about it. She reminded me of having a toxic friend, a person who puts their needs before yours, invalidates your problems and justifies themselves by claiming they are the victim. I’ve known a Cassandra, honestly her whole villain arc turned her into one of the most toxic characters to be around or look up to that I have ever seen and I’m shocked it didn’t turn the entire fandom off of her. Even when she supposedly gets redeemed, she never actually feels BAD for her actions, apologizes or repents. Rapunzel just finally tells her what she wanted to hear and then suddenly she just stops whining. She doesn’t ever apologize to her FRIEND for trying to kill her, and honestly acts like she still feels her actions were justified even when she is redeemed. Unlike Varian, who repented for his actions, apologized often and showed CLEAR guilt over how he had acted and who he had hurt, Cass did none of those things and literally doesn’t acknowledge any of it. If she had behaved at ALL remorseful I might have forgiven her, but she literally did not at all. At least Varian had a somewhat reasonable motive, Cassandra was just mad that her mother kidnapped some other girl and decided to throw a big temper tantrum because no one could satisfy her power fantasy. Justifying her by saying “she was always in rapunzel’s shadow” is such bullshit, being jealous of someone who did nothing wrong or to hurt you does not justify hurting them. And the way people and the show treat the situation like just because Cass had a traumatic childhood, it excused her actions sickens me. Trauma does NOT excuse violence and abuse, I don’t care what anyone says, nothing Cassandra did was valid or excusable. The fact that Rapunzel even took her back after everything just made the whole relationship feel toxic and abusive and I don’t get how so many people love Cassandra or excuse what she did. She went from one of my favorite characters to one of my all time most hated characters during this arc, I genuinely wish they had redeemed her better so I could forgive her but they didn’t even do that, it’s almost like even the show’s writers excused her abusive actions by not making her pay or show guilt or apologize.
The one thing I always found ironic was that while Cass gets to do whatever she wants cause she had a bad childhood, Rapunzel is held up to a super high standard and gets almost no leeway even though her childhood was extremely traumatic. And it’s been at least a decade since all of that bad stuff happened to Cass, Rapunzel only got a year to deal with her trauma before being thrust into more traumatic situations with her destiny as the sun drop. Yet for some reason people are way more critical of her than of Cass? That never made sense to me lol
@@0calliestar0 YES!! Literally that’s exactly what I’m taking abt. I will neverrr understand why people let a lot of Cass’ toxic behavior go just bc she had a sad childhood as if that makes it okay, and then on top of it criticize Rapunzel, who had honestly a much more traumatic childhood, for things mostly out of her control. Legit don’t get Cass fan’s logic and it bothers me that the writing in the show enabled her so much, it felt like enabling toxic friendship and abuse?
@@galacticjewels7856 Well one has to see where Cass was coming from. Her gripe wasn't against Rapunzel herself but rather what she represented. She had a whole complex going because of Gothel. Both Rapunzel and Cass were treated much the same. Being left alone much of the time and were subjected to Gothel's narcissistic nature. Rapunzel had nightmares about Gothel despite being free from the tower. In "Rapunzeltopia", she even hits "Gothel" on the head with a frying pan. If even Rapunzel, the most bubbly character in existence, still has issues with Gothel it's no wonder Cass does too. It was all set up in season one. Starting with "Challenge of the Brave" and "Great Expotations". Even alluded to in "Cassandra vs Eugene" and "Big Brothers of Corona".
@@darkshadowstorm7056 you are literally the person who they are complaining about here
@@mikahb7862 Both characters have their faults. My point was that there's more than what's on the surface. For example, Rapunzel does at times have trouble reading cues. As shown in "Challenge of the Brave" and "Big Brothers of Corona". While Cass has a tendency to let her ambition run away with her. However, there are reasons for both. Essentially, it's two sides of the same situation. Because both were subjected to the same thing. Which we see in "Not in the mood". Cass' opposite personality is basically Rapunzel while Rapunzel is like a slightly meaner Cass.
Just saying that the woman who wrote most of Varian's arc and basically his character is directing the monster at work spin off show coming out this summer. So yeah I think if we want more good writing we should be looking out for this show 👀
Wow that’s cool! Also I thought I heard something about a proposed Varian spinoff show, although it’s probably not gonna get made and will just be an internet fanfic kinda thing?
@@0calliestar0 you asked the right person, I spent two years fixating on Varian and one of those included Varian and the seven kingdoms (the spin off idea)
So basically, Kate and Ana (two writers of TTS) developed a spin off idea for Varian. They presented it for it to be produced and the people liked the story but didn't think that it was a good marketing choice to produce a spin off series about Varian since, he was indeed very loved by the TTS fandom, but said fandom was very small and so this character was unknown to the large audience. They did present the idea of producing this show if it was about a brand new character, but Kate stated that it was Varian's story and she didn't wanted it to be another character's story. So when TTS ended, she dropped a lot of informations about Seven Kingdoms on her Tumblr (characters, plot and other details) and the fans pretty much fell in love with it. Ana dropped many informations about Hugo (an original character for this spin off that many fans fell in love with, he became a favourite) on her Tumblr. Recently Disney + stated in a tweet that they noticed the hype around the story concept, but there is nothing else.
Link to Kate's Tumblr : kritterart.tumblr.com/
Link to Ana's Tumblr : banannerbread.tumblr.com/
Link to the resume of the plot : 66.media.tumblr.com/2da0dc6aeac487a2b74e4b6636ffd812/d14d87f32005b5c3-a2/s1280x1920/f66cdc840050630db20ef2c89850d6c16a0e3865.png
Kate is the one who wrote Varian btw
@@carolinelutz397 Yeah I thought I heard about that! I hope it gets made at some point and I’d love to see another show in the TTS universe in general, even if the Varian spin-off gets rejected cause Disney wants money lol
@@0calliestar0 Disney thinks Varian is not popular enough- like, smh 🤦🏼♀️
For Varian he was trying to save his father from a mistake he caused and only escalated when things didn't go his way. Cassandra decided to avenge the mother that abandoned her in favor of the infant she kidnapped to get her eternal youth. And she immediately went from zero to a hundred for no real motivation than just pety jealousy and listening to a creepy ghost girl she had no reason to trust.
I will agree that moon Cass lasted too long. It didn’t need to last as long as it did. I do love the song Nothing Left To Lose and that episode is a good episode for the most part. We get a good conversation between them in song form
I hated the whole Varian is "crazy because I just didn't do what he asked" thing. That actually pissed me tf off and made me hate almost all the main characters. Varian is (from what I remember reading) 14!!! A CHILD. And they are treated him like he's an adult with adult thoughts and emotions. Cassandra pissed me off extremely mainly because she kept breaking promises to him and he kept playing it off like it was okay when everyone AND I MEAN EVERYONE knew it wasn't okay. And Varian was so patient to me that it was almost annoying how everyone kept ignoring him. (Yes I am attached to this character and connect to this character due to my own trauma and negligence from others). This was a build-up just waiting to happen. People ignored him and some of his ideas then once he did something they cared. Great shows how great friends they all are.
Personally, I think everyone should've dealt with Varian like the child HE IS. With patience and understanding. And not like he can deal with his own problems. That whole episode reminded me of the last season of Bee and Puppycat it just made me angry.
While Varian is extremely smart he's still a child with child emotions and a child thought process.
Rapunzel pissed me off most in this episode cause like you said she couldn't keep her promise and personally help him but the least she could've done is sent ONE guard. Just ONE to check on his dad. It would have been that simple but instead, they pushed him away treated him as if he ASSAULTED HER, and then continued to treat him as the villain until he became one. I will say I do sympathize with him completely because I know how that feels. I know the anger it strikes into you. The want to make everyone feel that exact pain of losing the one you loved most because no one was there for you while you lost yours. It does make you feel like you wanna set the world on fire.
While I'm not exactly condoning all his actions I know how it feels to want to do anything to get your loved ones back and I mean anything.
This episode did make me hate the show for a while. Everyone was treating this child like a grown man wanting to hurt people for no reason when they know exactly why he's doing this. Instead of doing the Disney Princess thing and idk trying to give him a fresh start and let him understand they get why he did this or give him some love and compassion and just talk to him and tell them that they are gonna figure it out together, they threw him in jail.. IN FXCKING JAIL.
Now he's gonna come out and continue to seek his vengeance because ya'll couldn't just treat him like a child or a person.
And I'll be rooting for him cause ya know what? Fxck them. Yup, I said it.
I just hated that episode so much. It made me dislike this version of Rapunzel.
Dude honestly I still haven't forgiven any of the main characters for how they treated Varian. I think I also kind of relate to Varian too, he is most people's favourite character for a reason. I'm not gonna say all his actions were right but I am gonna say that he didn't exactly have many options or avenues to get out his situation.
Honestly, Cass victim-blaming Rapunzel for a whole season really put me off, it seemed sooooo weird - Cass was a smart girl who believed in justice, I really didn't get why she got so mad at Rapz (WHO DIDN'T ASK TO BE KIDNAPPED!)...
Cass' gripe wasn't against Rapunzel herself but rather what she represented. See Gothel gave her a complex because of her narcissistic nature and then subsequently abandoning her. The scenes from "Rapunzel's Return" and "Waiting in the Wings Reprise" explain it all. In "Rapunzel's Return", we get the full story. Little Cass spots Gothel just as the guards surround the place. Holding that music box (which is the only thing she had from Gothel that proved she "cared") she calls out to Gothel. Which gets the guards to try and capture her. Gothel then cuts the bridge and rides off. Seeing this little Cass drops the music box, breaking it (a huge metaphor). Then the Captain takes her in but all little Cass tearfully says is "I want my mama". That alone shows how much it meant to Cass to have even the small amount of attention she did only to have it ripped away permanently. Which is the symbolism of the music box. As young as she was she most likely associated Rapunzel with being abandoned. As a stand in for whatever kept Gothel from giving her that attention. Hence, blaming what Rapunzel represented rather than Gothel's narcissism.
@@darkshadowstorm7056 Still victim blanding from ak otherwise smart character - her villain arc could've been good, but as the video above states, it was just ok.
@@miehald3115 It's more complex than what's on the surface. Cass' anger was directed at Rapunzel but not for the reasons we think. It's that she's projecting because of Gothel.
@@darkshadowstorm7056 Yeah, I get that, I've seen it done really well in other shows. I love this one too, and Cass is one of my favourite characters. It just wasn't well executed, IMO. You can see it however you like and think it's great, that's perfectly fine 🙂 But I don't think it was well-done - could've been, but wasn't...
@@miehald3115 Fair enough. I think what it could have used is more time. Some say that Moon Cass lasted too long but they actually wrapped it up pretty quickly story wise. With Zhan Tiri fueling it that didn't leave as much time for Cass herself.
One thing that I think worked with Varian is that is his story was told from his POV and the royalty wasn’t ppl that Disney already set as a protagonist then Varian would likely be the hero and the kingdom would be the villains. Corrupt kingdom not helping the citizens when they know they need help. That could have easily been a villain role but they set it up to make things more complicated and I love it
Varian turning evil hurt me so bad because he’s sweet and misunderstood. He just wants his dad to understand him and be proud of him. Varian clearly loves his dad, he’s hurt when his dad is imprisoned, and he feels betrayed by Rapunzel since she didn’t help him at first. Varian went down a dark path because he wants his father back. Varian’s a teen by the way so this event would not have a good impact on his mental health. Varian does eventually turns good again, forgives Rapunzel, and his dad is proud of him. Throughout the rest of the show he remains good. Varian wasn’t evil he was misunderstood. Cass I agree has a tragic character change too, but I think Varian is better.
The line “you have so much to hold on to” in ‘nothing left to lose’ really got me thinking and it just makes varian’s arc more tragic and cas’ arc more annoying. The only support varian had was a strained relationship with his father and a good, yet not very deep, friendship with Rapunzel. And he loses both in one very short and traumatic moment. Not to mention he is immediately vilified for “attacking the Princess” which he never did. So Varian basically had no one and then he looses the fight and completely breaks down emotionally (which is kinda hard to watch I just feel so bad for him) then spends a minimum of a year, maybe 1 and a half years in prison by himself then he thinks of himself as irredeemable (tbf many of his actions were very yikes but still) and has to prove himself before being trusted again. Cass on the other hand had a best friend who loved her unconditionally as well as all of her friends of friends who still love and believe in her for rapunzel’s sake. No one ever says she went to far, she can come back at literally any point and rebuild her relationship but refuses. She had a pretty good life and is also in her early 20s or around that. She’s very ungrateful for her dad and acts like she would have preferred the evil witch who traumatised her friends as a parent. She’s mad at people who literally never did anything to her, just disagree and, most frustratingly she ONLY APOLOGISES ONCE SHE LOST ALL HER POWERS! Like she could just be lying to avoid any more consequences and she only kinda helps save the day and every one’s just fine with her. Again contrast with Varian who needed 2 episodes to redeem himself, one to Rapunzel and one to the rest of the kingdom. So in short, Varian loses pretty much everything, is vilified for asking for help and has to redeem himself, Cass still has everything good that she’s always had and throws it away by her own will but basically has permission to regain it at anytime, only apologises when she has no other option and doesn’t really need any redemption!
I have a lot of sympathy for both Varian and Cassandra and honestly, I get a little annoyed by how people look down on Cassandra's villain arc...but when you put it like that.
"Even though Varian is now working with Keanu Reeves and the Freedom Fighters..."
Oh my goodness! That's hilarious! 😂😂
I gotta say though Cass shoulda taken the job with the buff ladies. She barely knew Raps she didn't owe her anything and she could have won the thing then helped Raps up and been like "thanks for helping me get this new step in my career!" And they would have been friends. Raps acting like Cassandra owed her putting her career on hold for a person she barely knew is entitled and selfish. Very silly
Well it was Cass' sense of loyalty and duty that kept her by Rapunzel's side. Considering the whole debacle with Gothel it makes sense. Rapunzel acknowledges that in a scene "I guess there wasn't much to smile about, you know after being put in charge of a free spirited flower child who painted smiley faces all over your things". In fact, Raps even tells her to go after the flag. But because of who Cass is she chose to stay.
@@darkshadowstorm7056 after Raps literally pouted and acted like it was the biggest betrayal ever. Raps guilted Cassandra
@@therealfinnaspring8585 True. I think that's partly why Cass leaves Corona in the end. If they ever continue the series maybe they'll bring her character back.
Varian is such a great character, not to mention his arc brought us the masterpiece that is Ready as I'll Ever Be
All Varian's songs were great.
@@drhappybanana8533yeah, all three if them...😒
its important to recognize that there is a massive difference between, Justified and valid. People often think that they kinda come hand in hand but thats not the case. In Varians case, while his actions aren't entirely justified, his motives are in a way valid. He WAS betray, he WAS abandoned in his time of need, but he WAS also the person with the most likelyhood of being able to find a workable solution, ESPECIALLY since the actual people with any information were withholding for poor reasons and doing nothing but causing more problems. So what did they do to him, they falsely vilified him labeled him a criminal and our Hero did little to nothing about shit. Varian wasnt just a pretty good Antagonist, but he was simply the best characer in the sho, BAR none.
also gave us the best song in the show, jsut saying
I LAUGHED SO HARD AT “cass’ crispy hand”
"The moody teenagers of the Tangled family" why is that phrase so beautiful
I thought a lot about this (hum, I must get a life) and I came to the conclusion that the key difference is in their goal and what happens after they became villains. Most of the time, to be a good villain, you need a goal that you can try to achieve in a way that put you in conflict with the heroes, and a reason why you chose the villain way instead of another.
For Varian, it was clear. He wants to save his dad. For that, he needs Rapunzel's power for that. But as Rapunzel broke her promise to him and never investigated the rocks, he can't trust her anymore and is not willing to take any risk with something so important. So instead of accepting her help, he will make sure she helps him by all means. People can argue about if he was right or wrong to not trust Rapunzel, but this is a logical path.
But for Cass... I won't say that her stealing the moonstone isn't logical : she felt outshined by Rapunzel and thought Rapunzel "stole" her mother, so she took something that should give Raps even more powers to use it for herself. Here again we can argue that her jealousy is misplaced, but in her mind it is logical.
But then, what? She took the stone and what does she wants to do with it? She wants to gain more power, but why? Does she just wants to play with rocks on her own all day? Does she wants to hurt Rapunzel? Take revenge on people who lie to her? Does she just want respect (becoming a villain would be a strange way to get it but being seen as a valuable person drove her character in the previous seasons, so...)
What she wants is never explained. And when I say that, I don't mean it as "it is not explained bur there is a real reason that will be revealed eventually" (like it is with Zhan Tiri, and it is ok), but as in "it is not explained because the writers themselves have no clue". She just talk about her destiny and following her own path which is very vague and doesn't mean anything... in particular when you let a ghost girl tell you what to do, which contradict the desire of freedom that leaded her to become a villain in the first place.
In the end, it left Cassandra with no plan, and so the conflict between her and the heroes have no real purpose. They put all they have in the "heroes try to get her on a good path again" but it fails because they never explained why the "dark path" was about.
To sum it up : if you want a good villain, giving your character reasons to become villain is not enough. You have to figure out what they want too.
Truth
Yeah the writers really had no idea what to do with her
This is everything that I felt was wrong with Cass's betrayal arc. I also felt like they took her villainy way too far, that it just made her short "redemption" in the final episode all the more unbelievable. She taunts Rapunzel into fighting her by threatening to kill Eugene, she leaves Rapunzel to die in a poison filled mine shaft, very poorly tries to redeem herself before becoming the villain again to kill Rapunzel in their final battle. Since her reasoning for betraying Rapunzel in the first place is so weakly written, all of these actions she takes just seem so incredibly unforgiveable.
The whole scene where she cries and hugs Rapunzel, like "Woe is me, I'm a failure at being bad too! *sob*" is just terribly handled. She doesn't show true remorse for her actions, only that she failed in execution, which again paints her in a terrible light. I used to like Cass as a character and I related to her original insecurities and aspirations, but the final season tore her positive character traits to shreds and made her so unlikeable in my opinion.
What fucking bothers me is that in "Cassandra's Revenge" Raps told her that Gothel abused her and held her hostage for 18 years, all that demented bitch Cassandra could say "don't care, you pushed her out the window" She knew damn well that Mother Gothel was an AWFUL women and was aware of the abuse Raps was put through, but the moment she finds out that that demon of a women is her biological mother, all of sudden Raps is a two timing bitch for stealing her mother love.
Another thing about Cassandra is that we, as the audience, knew Gothal was a monster, so for Cassandra to be pissy that Gothal chose Rapunzel over her to us just seemed flat out stupid. If anything Cass got off lucky!
The British accent sends me into orbit
“But *RaPuNzIiĪiEeEeEEEeLl”*
"From the sweet little cinnamon roll that the fangirls love To the angsty anarchist alchemist that the fangirls also love"
I mean-
Yeah.
I think Eugene should've taken the moonstone. Hear me out: Eugene had ALL the reason to take it. At this point he knew his mom died because of the power of the moonstone. He's also the prince of the dark kingdom so he could've seen it as his responsibility. Couple that with wanting to protect Rapunzel and make sure she doesn't meet the same fate as his mother-- if I were him I totally would've taken it in a spur of the moment decision so she didn't die.
And THAT would've been a more interesting arc, imo. Eugene loves Rapunzel but is being corrupted by Zhan Tiri and is conflicted about the decision, maybe even pulls an Elsa type thing where he runs away because he doesn't want to hurt her. Meanwhile Cass at this point could've had her "repair" arc where she leads the way to find/confront Eugene when Rapzunel can't bring herself to, and Cass saves the day. Rapunzel and Cass have a heart to heart, Raps understands where Cass is coming from, Cass feels sympathy for Raps who is having a crisis because her boyfriend basically just broke up with her to be an evil villain when all he was doing was trying to protect her, and after it resolves all three characters grow a ton and become better people with stronger relationships. Everyone wins!
I wish it was written that way ngl. But mooncass is good too, just not as good as moongene imho
For some reason I have a feeling that they even wanted to do this, but changed their minds(based on all the arguments about Eugene in the series, from an interview with the screenwriter, where it was said that "they wanted to do something else, but Cassandra seemed more interesting" and one of the first concepts similar to the "poster", where a completely different atmosphere and the distribution of characters is felt, but where attention is already fixed on the fact that Rapunzel is from almost a sunny kingdom, and Eugene is from a dark one).
@@justzombie7594 I wholeheartedly agree. It seems like the whole show was set up for that. I'm kind sad they didn't do it tbh. BUT mooncass is fine too, and the songs are bangers, so I'm not too mad
For real! I've seen many different moonstone AU'S (moon Varian, moon Eugene, and even "new moon" which is Eugene and Rapunzel kinda sharing the moonstone power and protecting each other) and they're all so much better and seem more interesting than moon Cassandra
no way that cassandra was gothel's biological daughter lmao gothel was at least like, 80 years old when she stole rapunzel
I guess the sun drop can... replenish... eggs, maybe?
It seems to me that it would simply not be profitable for her to have her own daughter. She is a bad mother, she is self-centered and manipulative, she would obviously enjoy the attention of men, but she is NOT stupid. I don't think messing around with a baby would have been what she wanted, before the story with the flower and Rapunzel. She wouldn't even kidnap Rapunzel, she initially tried to cut off her hair, but the plan failed. She doesn't look like the kind of character who would keep her child for herself, even if the child turned out to be accidental, because "Well, I can make fun of her, and she... I don't know, clean the house? And greatly interfere with my life. And this is after the child has to be carried out, given birth and raised part of the time, when he is not independent at ALL and only screams." In the character of Gothel, it would be possible to throw such a child as she was born as soon to someone, but definitely not to interfere with yourself. She's not exactly a " typical toxic parent." She is smarter and she clearly sets goals and priorities. She is not a sadist, otherwise Rapunzel's life would be MUCH worse. And she didn't get any really big benefits from Cassandra, to bother herself and raise her for the first few years of her life at least. It just seems to me that Gothel from "Tangled" would not do such meaningless things for herself as Gothel from the series. She was much more... practical, maybe? When it comes to her own benefit. Although it was also not without logical flaws(sometimes strong), but still. I think that the child Gothel is strongly sucked out of the finger.
@@justzombie7594 yeah, she was mainly using Cassandra as a maid. You can see this in a few flashbacks, like when she was talking to herself in the mirrors in a Tale Of Two Sisters she said “I was paid the nicest compliment today, there I was picking out- “Ugh, Cassandra can’t you sweep a little QUIETER.” She also says in that same episode while talking to the mirror again “Cassandra, what are you doing here!?” “I thought I told you to make us dinner.”
@@Yams-Hams7734 It's not profitable as hell. I mean, seriously, Gothel cares about her beauty. And now imagine pregnancy and at least the first three or four years of a child's life, when you will have to not only sacrifice your biology, but also support. You will not be able to use a child as a servant when he is 1 year old. Absolutly. Fisically. And the fact that it is also common for children to spoil everything, grow up and, perhaps, kill their mother for the sake of a flower, for example. I can't imagine that Gothel from the original would do such stupidity just for the sake of a" servant " in the person of a stupid child who needs to be supported, who will undermine her beauty and is physically unable to do much without spoiling everything. Not to mention the risk to her dealings with magic. I don't understand why in people's minds "She kept her as a servant" makes sense when it doesn't make sense. Or was she already born big enough to start working like a robot right away, and Gothel cared about housework more than about her beauty and not being discovered? It's complete no sense. Gothel is not a typical "bad mom", after all, as she was shown in the series, she also did not do anything "just becouse" in the movie. She didn't even need Rapunzel, just her hair, but she couldn't cut it off. If she was as stupid as in the series, she would have kidnapped her right away, "just because im very bad", despite the risks.
@@justzombie7594 okay? I was just trying to give my interpretation of why Gothel kept Cassandra, but if you disagree with it that’s fine. Also what do you think is the reason for Gothel raising Cassandra?
The one thing that frustrated me about Cassandra was her damn insecurity. She had a man who adopted her and loved her as if she were his own. She was made a Lady in Waiting for the mf princess who was literal sunshine and becomes her best friend. She then also gets the opportunity to fight for the kingdom which is a big thing for women in this time. She starts feeling insecure over Rapunzel listening to Adira. Then she just flips her script and betrays and assaults Rapunzel and co. Then she threatens the kingdom and kidnapped victims. Like after all that, seriously what the hell.
18:10 I personally think that it’s exactly *because* Cass is Rapunzel’s best friend that Rapunzel is being oblivious. It’s easy to assume that someone you love loves you back. It’s easy to assume that a small discussion has already solve any bumps you’d have with your best friend.
I don’t think Rapunzel has suddenly lose all braincells for comprehending human emotions, I just think she’s instinctively understating the problem. I think it’s just normal that a human can’t believe someone they love would betray them.
I hope this can help you understand what’s happening to Rapunzel in the finale of season 2 😊
I’ll give Varian this, he didn’t trust someone who was so obviously evil that she’s one step away from laughing evil and twirling a moustache in Cass’ face.
That's the interesting thing about Zhan Tiri. She thrives on getting people to act of their own accord. Her disciples do the same. That shell guy, the artist lady, and even Gothel herself. Being in a magical house of course seeing a random ghost didn't seem so strange. At first Cass was most likely just going along with it to find a way out. That's what she did in "Under Raps" as part of a mission for the Captain. Though I doubt she expected to be blindsided by that clippet from the past.
I feel like Varian's anger is more justified, by the fact after the blizzard, Rapunzel doesn't even go to check up on him and try to help his father! All she does is sit around moping.
Yeah
She can't claim to be "a strong, independent woman that don't need no man but herself" or be so eager to learn about the world
And just sit around and mope as things get hard. The world doesn't stop just because you feel sad
Same thing can be said for varian
When it comes to Varian I'd say it was mostly Frederick's fault. He tells Rapunzel that Varian is dangerous. Then after they capture him tells her they'll get him "help". But they just end up tossing him in the dungeon. For Cass, it's more than what's on the surface. It's a snowball effect.
For me during the Moonstone Cassandra arc it felt like the writers couldn’t decide on an overall goal and motivation for Cassandra since her goals and motivations kept changing every other episode. First it’s “GoTHel ChOse RApUnzEl OvEr ME”, which is a motivation that makes no sense and I’m sure even 5 year olds know that Gothel never loved Rapunzel, then it’s “I must fulfill my DeStInEY” then its, “I’m overlooked by everyone” then its “No one takes me seriously” and in Once a Handmaiden it’s something about… Her and Rapunzel not communicating with each other and being honest with each other or something. The arc should have been cut in half. The first half of season 3, they could have Cassandra be the villain and realize she was being manipulated at the end of “Cassandra’s Revenge” and then the second half of season 3 could have Cassandra apologizing to everyone, correcting her actions, and earning everyone’s forgiveness and regaining their trust. Moonstone Cassandra had the potential to be one of the best parts about the show, but sadly that potential wasn’t reached
Yeah for me Cassandra’s Villain arc just felt like a clusterfuck, but Rapunzel’s “There’s still good in her, I can save her” gets FRUSTRATING after the first few times. Especially after Cassandra leaves her in a poison filled cave to freaking DIE aftee Zhan Tori’s idiotic plan to separate Cass and Rapunzel with the whole Gothel conflict.
I’m not saying she shouldn’t fully give up on Cass but she’s just not taking the threat of Cassandra seriously and would risk her friends lives to make up with the traitorous bitch even after taking her high level crimes up to eleven.
While I am a Cassunzel shipper and I still liked the series Season 3 takes the cake and just make me facepalm a few times.
Cassandra and mostly EVERYONE REALLY had the idiot ball in Season 3 and just felt mind numbing to watch. It’s too the point I’d rather read fanfiction than rewatch this series again. There’s great moments in it and the characters are likable but it’s just a grain to watch in Season 3 and even 2.
I’d rather have Cassandra realize herself that she’s being a pawn to Zhan Tiri than lose her brain cells for the third season to blindly follow the ghost girl she doesn’t know.
Originally, Cass was supposed to betray Rapunzel, in a twist that revealed that she was never really Rapunzel's friend and was planning on betraying them since the day they met. However, the writers changed that, because they said they felt it would be too harsh.
Don't mind me, just watching an entire analysis on a show that I've always wanted to watch but never have.
So I’m not the only one lol
Same. I heard it was pretty good but judging from the comments, I think I might just give it a pass. The direction the show went sounds frustrating
@@nkechi4635 please give it a chance. This series has a lot more to offer than just the villain arcs. I personally still think it is a really good show. This show !ade Rapunzel my favorite Disney princess and Eugene and Rapunzel my favorite Disney couple ( tied with Tina and Naveen).
Fun fact: Cassandra's betrayal was part of the show's original pitch circa 2014-15. Varian was conceived during the writing of season one much later.
varian embodies "all villains are broken hero's"
cass embodies "mommy issues makes u like. a sociopath"
My own thoughts on the matter of Varian and Cass’s respective Villian arcs:
Varian’s talents are established rather succinctly, with him being a practicing alchemist and inventor in a world otherwise trapped in Medival stasis. It’s shown that whilst he’s a bright young man, his enthusiasm in dealing with fields of engineering and science in which he has no reference other than himself for often leads to disastrous results for those around. There is a clear rift between him and his father, something which Varian hopes to rectify. He is used to solving problems through scientific research and prepared formulas.
Then enter the black rocks. While Varian does an Admirable job observing them, all his scientific observations and alchemical practice don’t so much as dent it. The opposite in fact, as it directly places himself in peril and his father in Amber. And here’s the most important part of Varian’s start of darkness: Rapunzel and Corona actually do wrong by him. Rapunzel was forced to break her promise by duty and circumstance, and he was wrongfully accused of assaulting the Princess (something Rapunzel never gets around to correcting. There is also the fact that post snow storm crisis, she didn’t immediately head to help Varian. Or even seem to remember him. I don’t think this intentional, just perhaps something to keep in mind Season definitely had its downsides.), and has guards sicced on him and his home by the king to silence over the quite real threat of the black rocks. The point being, whilst Varian went from kind intentioned to callous, that change is understandable given how circumstances play out. It doesn’t absolve him of responsibility for his misdeeds, but his motive is that of desperation to save a loved one. It is his capacity for engineering and alchemy, as well some rather solid capacity for planning, that gets him as far as he goes. No magic powers, just whatever he himself could build with his own two hand. (Admittedly pretty damn industrious hands, considering how many Corona mechs he puts together for the Season 1 Finale).
As for Cassandra, let’s start with her motivation. It is a sudden last minute turn that is only built up by the last few episodes of season two, through the absurd reveal she’s mother gothel’s biological daughter. Mother Gothel, an utter self centered sociopath with no actual care for other people, who had been avoiding them for years on end whilst living eternally via flower, for some reason decided she wanted to get laid and have a child she didn’t care about. Why in earth she raised the child at all is beyond me. Why Cassandra craves the affections of someone who was so painfully neglectful when she had a better, if still flawed, father/parent figure in the Captain of the guard, I don’t understand. Why she blames Rapunzel for being a kidnapped fountain of youth that Gothel never cared for, is beyond me.
What she actually gains from taking the Moonstone that lines up with her motives established prior to season is... nonexistent. Even considering her desire for respect, it’s not as if she has been consistently tossed over for less capable people. And her immediate plan upon acquiring the Moonstone is to betray everyone she ever cared about because some ghost girl said “but mother Gothel really did care”. And for that reason, Cass becomes one the most insufferable villains who doesn’t present others actions in a different light, but just shows an arbitrary distrust for people who have done right by her for so long. And she goes along with the ghost’s plans despite their being nothing in it for her. I thought she wanted the respect of her father and the people of Corona, but acting as an antagonistic villain to everyone spits in the face of everything we learned about her in season and arguably two.
In short, where as I understood what Varian wanted and why he was willing to go where he did, I’m at a complete loss for what the hell Cass thinks any of her actions at the end of Season 2 and near all of season 3 will get her. If she wants attention and affection, how does destroying the Kingdom of Corona get her anything other than the status of a hated monster?
They actually started the build up for Cass' arc in season one. Particularly in the episodes "Cassandra vs Eugene" and "Big Brothers of Corona". They displayed her ambition with "Challenge of the Brave" as well as "Great Expotations". Season two was more about fleshing it out. Season three was the reveal. As for her goal that's where it gets tricky. Zhan Tiri was only using her to get to the sundrop as well as the moonstone. Beyond mastering the moonstone's power we didn't get to see Cass' plan.
I liked the hard decision Repunzel had to make by breaking her promise to Varien, it was real. But I couldn’t understand why Repunzel didn’t IMMEDIATELY go to Old Corona once the storm was over!!?! She just goes on having wacky adventures and feeling kinda bad that she broke her promise, but NOT ACTUALLY GOING TO SEE WHAT VARIEN WAS SO UPSET ABOUT!!?
The description to this video gave me a good laugh, “the moody teenagers of TTS” LOL 😂 I freaking love this
i am SO glad someone finally decided to talk about this
And Varian has a way better reasoning for turning!!! Everyone saw him as an outcast. His dad “dies” and when he rushes through a tragic snow storm for Rapunzel’s help, she doesn’t help him despite her promise and then castle guards even drag him out of the castle and into the storm again. They’re supposed to be protecting people from it, but they just toss him out. No one was there for him AT ALL!!
With Cass, she simply finds out Gothel chose Rapunzel over her and instantly decides go turn against her. Unlike Varian, she actually had people there for her! And it’s not like Rapunzel CHOSE to be kidnapped. Plus, the captain of the guards took her in and gave her a better life than Gothel would have. And that was YEARS ago.
Because Varian wanted to rescue his dad and Rapunzel was unfurtunatelly in his way. Cassandra's excuse was "i am always second best", now let me steal this power to do ....? what? What would steal the shard acomplish? she stole it because...? In the procecss of doing so bretaying her dad, you know, the guy who raised her and actually put her first? That arc was absolutely non sensical