Does Wider HURT Performance?
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
- Does wider REALLY mean better every time?
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We've all heard the tire talk among car enthusiasts, what's the WIDEST tire I can fit on my car, or what's the widest tire I can fit on my wheel. More rubber on the road surely equals more grip right? We're going to discuss why that's not ALWAYS true on todays special tire episode of Myth Or Fact!
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Myth Or Fact is a video series where we debunk commonly misunderstood theories in the automotive scene, and break down the history and the reasoning behind these myths.
0:00 Hype Intro
1:30 The Plug
2:19 Wider Tire Advantages
5:11 Wider Tire Disadvantages
7:44 Outro
#WideTires #BigTires #TireSize - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Does wider REALLY mean better every time?
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Yeees
Yep
Nope. I Have a skinnier the grips better then wider ones I had. Depends on the specs. All tires/brands are different so it varies.
Front wheel drive is for losers......just like 6 bangers.
no,shorter wheelbase means better steering,thats why Porsches are amazing race cars
Wider and thicker hips usually brings out extra performance in my wood tip.
you have won comment section gold
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 bruhhhhh
Lmfaooooooooo
. . s l o w clap . .
Nailed it
We need a 'So you Want A Prius' for April fools day
Smart car**
🤣🤣
I want a Prius to live in it
"So you want to widebody a prius"
i actually do tho smh efficient as hell or am i missing something?
If I tire can't stand up on its own it's not wide enough
bro a 205 will stand up on its own. XD
@@ZJSProMedia that really depends on wheel and offset if you’ve got crazy offset it’d probably tip over. I run a +57 on my rears they’re 265/40/19 and they fall over if I stand them up
@@thattaffetafg2569 they taking an unmounted tire......
I got 285s
@@ZJSProMedia my fucking 185 60 R14 stands on its own. cause i run Nankang NS2Rs on my Dayli
Went from 205/45/17 on 7" to 235/40/17 on 8" on stock NC Miata. Difference in grip/handling is huge. It's actually scary because it's much harder to tell the car's limits on fast turns (with the wider tires). On the 205's, the car was much quicker (i'd say 10% faster) and more nimble, easy to throw around. And I would be sliding the car at every signal/turn I made....that was fun. Now with the 235's, i can't slide/drift the car when turning anymore, it takes a lot more effort or i have to be going scary fast on the turn.
Both tire sizes have their own performance/fun factors. With the 235's, feels like the car is on rails, I go on a roundabout at 60km/hr and the tires don't slip or lose grip at all. On the 205's, same roundabout, I could feel the tires fighting for grip at 45/50km/hr.
If you like having grip and turning at fast speeds without losing grip, wider is the way to go.
so your miata accelerated 10% slower with the 235s over the 205s?
@@GGGmod1 Maybe not 10% but it's noticeable enough that it's not like 1-2% either. I would say it's between 5-10%. Depends on calibration of your butt dyno too. Some people can't tell difference. I can tell difference in acceleration when my gas tank is empty vs. when it's full.
Now my miata isn't stock anymore. I still have 235/40/17 on 8" but I am changing to 215/45/17 on 8". I don't have enough power to go to 9" and 245/40/17 but that grip would be so much fun.
For the street, I think 225 or 215 on 8" wheels is plenty enough grip.
@@mrm1712 so if your car does 0-100 in 10 seconds it could go up by 0.5-1 seconds just from the wheels then. I like grippy stuff but truth be told id rather have a fast line acceleration and if that means going down to 205 then i will
@@GGGmod1 not from wheels alone but tire weight and width too. Depends on which wheels and tires too (lightweight or not). More rubber touching road means more resistance. Hard to find perfect balance. Too skinny tires/traction can also cause problems
Edit: note that I'm driving a very lightweight Miata. The difference won't be as noticeable on a bigger heavy car
I went from 205/65r15, down to the stock size of 165R15 on my 74 TR6.
The 205s were new Falkan Ziex ze960's made the steering heavy at low speed and when driving fast, it felt unpredictable at the limit. Maybe with suspension tuning this could be improved as the body roll is pretty bad with the stock spring rates and sway bar.
The 165's are new Verdestein Sprint Classics. The car feels way more manageable and fun. The limit is slower and the break away is way more predictable and progressive. Plus, the the narrow tires on stock, zero offset steel rims just looks right on the car.
Day one of asking
"So you want a car"
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I am a fan
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Diminishing performance of the increased weight is always what’s talked about but never angular momentum...
If you have two wheel and tire setups that are the exact same weight but one rim is a 15” and the other is a 18” which one do you think takes more power away?
...The 18” wheel does because more of it mass is further from its center of rotation.
but is the 15in setup the same circumference as the 18” ? you know how keeping the same size in that regard to keep the speedometer calibrated
@@erickbertoperez862 Ideally it should be the same circumference, but it'll have different weight distribution
Usually the best way to go about things as far as performance on a stock-ish car is just to go with a stickier tire in the stock size. If you can find a bigger wheel and tire combo that weighs less than stock and then fit a stickier tire, bonus points.
You forgot that wider tires decrease wet traction and increase hydroplaning chances.
I don’t care if it hurts performance I wanna fill both lanes babyyy
Lol literally just got new tires on a few minutes ago
what size?
Mine are coming tomorrow, Continental extreme contact dws.
@@sypora2069 225/40/18 for my gt86. Any wider and this car loses what little fun factor it has
@@wolf-eat-tiger 245 and 275 staggered on mine. Completely disagree with losing any fun.
@@globalcitizen8314 have those...really good
Dozens of highly skilled engineers are involved when developing and testing the car, including wheel and tire size. Generally it is set up at best value in combination of performance, fuel efficiency and cost with stock power level and suspension set up. If performance is the only thing you are looking for with stock power level, you are best off finding lightest forged aluminum wheels of same size, along with the best performing tire for your application (considering radials/r-compound/street max, wet/dry etc). If 'but that stance tho' is your thing, then priority of performance isn't as high on your list as you might think. Also wider tire creates more wind resistance, and more susceptible to hydroplaning.
Kotomi P1999,
"... best value in combination of performance, fuel efficiency and cost ..." depends on the relative priorities of all the factors you list, along with others like ride comfort, noise, etc.
Those same "Dozens of highly skilled engineers" are likely to arrive at a different sized tire and wheel combination given the same list of considerations prioritized in a different sequence, as different car owners might do. If the marketing team for a certain car told the engineers to get the best fuel economy and most comfortable ride at the lowest cost possible, they would specify a different wheel size than if better performance (acceleration, braking, cornering) was higher on the list. For example, with the same 160 hp engine, a 2014 Ford Focus S (15"x6.5") vs. SE (16"x7") vs. SEL (17"x7") vs. Titanium Handling Package (18"x8"), all have different sized wheels and tires, probably chosen by the same engineers.
Likewise, one owner might be happier sticking to the original size as you recommend, where another with different priorities would get "better" (for their priorities) results with a different size.
I don't know how noticeable any difference in wind resistance is with wider tires (never gave that much thought), but I learned the scary way how right you are about hydroplaning, at least in a lightweight rear drive car (Porsche 914). That seemed to be less of a problem when I switched to front-heavy FWD cars (VW Scirocco, Acura Integra, etc.), but sometimes brief lapses of traction can still be felt without the total disappearance of steering control the RWD car had. And it only gets worse as the tread wears down.
You should check out donuts latest meme on Instagram, I'm not some sort of advertiser, just a memey boi
I always dig your videos, they're entertaining but to the point. Keep up the good work team FI!
Went from 175 on 13s to 215 on 16s on my 92 Golf 3 back in the day. It had 90PS and didn't really lose that much in fuel economy, most of it was my right foot anyway. It did gain a lot of grip in return and paired with a set of coilovers performance was way better. My brother in law actually loved to drive it since it was way quicker than his 850 wagon despite it having a bigger engine and over 40 more horses. Funny thing was i liked driving his car more xD
"does wider hurt performance?"
Let me ask my wife......
This could go one of two ways...
Perfect
Love the amount of uploads guys
As someone who is trying to build a fun momentum car with honestly pretty low HP and torque numbers, this video was amazingly helpful.
Everyone loves a little thickness 😉
A little cushion for the pushin
@@NetherBoy13 o shet
To include your mom
Awesome video... just would like to add rolling resistance, they can actually slow you down if you have to big of tire in the front.
The friggin wheel slap sound effect at the beginning. Right off the bat, I'm already giggling my arse off 😂
One of the best investment for my Q50 RS was putting Pilot Pro 4S 275s for extra grip in a staggered setup.
It's also important to recognise even if your acceleration goes down with some thiccboiz if you rip it though the twisties even in a shitbox wider tires will make a world of difference.
Thank youuuu for teaching these kids
I’m running ds02 18x9.5 front 215/35/18and 19x10.5 225/35/18 +22 offset and I really enjoy that set up and looking really good
Hahaha the stomach wheel slap was hilarious.
Hello, great video, educational and funny, what happened to the old steel wheels, what better for performance steels or alloys,
With fwd cars you shouldn't go wider than stock in most cases, because it just ruins the drivability of the car. A fwd car that has stock 225s is much better of with staying with 225s than going 235s if there is no significant increase in power. Talking from experience and bad driving memories xD
I've gone from 17s to 18s and an inch wider wheel running contisport contact 4s but same tyre width for a little stretch to make sure I don't rub, did loads of research before buying, the difference is amazing.... road glue!
Also depends what you're doing, a bit narrower may be easier to keep some heat in it or a bit wider if you need it cooler
Went from 18x8 square setup with 225s all the way around the a 265/35 and 18x10.5 in the rear and 18x9 front with 235/40 and was literally a little sad when it was a touch slower however, the handling and road feel is a lot more pronounced. The ride got more harsh but you can feel every ridge and crack in the road which is really good for steering feel and handling so give and take. Also going from stock height to springs soon with an inch drop interested to see how that will work and if it will ride like absolute shit or just sit flush and handle more like a go kart than it already does. 06 BMW 330i.
Went from 225/40 uniroyals to 245/40 ps as 4 for meaty look, also the grip is insane. I don't spin the front wheels anymore when I wanna accelerate fast, obviously if I use 100% it will spin slightly but it's just much grippier. Also it feels more confident and tram like when going on and of ramps even in the wet.
This vid just made my decision for me. Thank you 😁
I bumped my Hellcat up to a 305. And it made a big difference in grip.
If course because it’s a hellcat
I have a 14 charger rt, moved from 245/45 to 275/40 and made all the difference in the world
Made it slower?? 😂. Jk bro sweet ride.
I went from 235s on my honda to 295
@@fabian-isf5310 Surprised a Honda has enough torque to turn that wheel.
On my last 2 daily’s I went wider on the same aspect ratio and maintained ride, improved acceleration, braking, and handling, but lost gas mileage. Even less mileage at $4.50/gal on my XJ Cherokee, it was worth it.
“So you want a vip Lexus?”
Got a 8th gen SI civic. I'm running 18x9.5 +35 255/35/18 and I love it. I need new koing hypergrams for the front because of a wreck.
New video on my birthday, thank you.
Happy bday after two years😳
I love wide wheels and tires but you do not get hardly any more grip. Tire compound makes way more of a difference. The area of the contact patch is created by the weight of the car. Getting wider tires with stiffer sidewalls and softer compounds seem like best way to go for performance.
THIS
Yesss thank you. A lot of oversimplification on this topic.
I'm buying a 2012 honda civic si, wanted some opinions. Should I get a bit wider rim and tire set up to get the look i want or should I just go with spacers.
My cars top trim level wheel and tire was 235/45/17 on 17x7.5. I put 235/45/18 on it with a 18x8. It’s perfect! The car originally came with 225/60/16 on 16x7 wheel.
What are peoples opinion on tyre poke from the arches? Like tiny poke from sidewalls tho like an inch or less..
I have a 1.4L golf tuned for 170hp which isn't much but its super fun. I run 245/40R18 Michelin PS4's, I think I've struck the balance between looks and performance, any wider and it would be too much but at the same time it looks meaty 👌
I have a ~800hp 1000NM Gt63s and the stock 19 295 back ps4s is not gripping on track even in the straights I have a set of 305 cup2 in shop when spring roll around, should I upgrade for a bigger wheel to put on an even bigger tire?
I bought a 20x11 wheels for my honda accord 2020 2.0 sports, us that too much?? Thanks
I just slapped some 18x12 -33 TE37s with 305/35/18 R888Rs on my 350z and I’ve never felt so much grip in my life.
I have all season random 215s on all 4 corners and I CAN'T WAIT to finally put on my summer Nitto g2 race tires on :)))
I'm thinking of running 8 inch wheels for my summer set on this '16 BRZ I just picked up. It's a long term daily, so I won't be putting much power to it other than the basics like an Open Flash tuner, headers, exhaust, and run the updated intake manifold.
I want to put wider wheels and tires ( maybe 12 in. )on the rear of my 2000 Lincoln LS and not have them sticking out on the sides. Can I do this without to much inner body modification?
Fitment, my stock is 225/45 18 with 26” diameter, if I jump to 255/35 19 with same 26” diameter, will it effect my excelleration?? 18 to 19” rims change as well
i threw some 295 35 20 bridgestone potenza re070r tires on my stock wheels and oh boi let me tell you grippy is an understatement i could not break traction even in the rain and on the tail of the dragon they let me an almost stock base model challenger absolutely leave a bolt on tuned gti in the dust i was parked for a good 2 minutes before he got to the bottom so granted i also have bc coilovers but just the tires alone changed the whole cornering feel of the car
Can you pls do a video on whether smaller or bigger rim diameter is better.
Have a honda cr-v, stock width is 235, was wanting to put maybe 255’s on? bad idea or worth it?
Also in the case of snow (1 to 4 inches) or so on the road, a skinny tire is better. More PSI on the contact patch of the road. Wide tires don't work as well in snow. Wider tires on a light car can decrease the speed needed to hydroplane. I use a dedicated snow tire (skinny with plenty of sidewall) in the winter.
I need to run wider tires for soft sand... is it safe to run 245/50 (9.5 wide) on a 6.5 " wide steel rim? I did for over 5 years previously and want to do it again on a van. The recommendation is 7" wide steel min.
Great vids
Straight line guys will want as narrow a tyre as they can without overheating - increasing width reduces length, and can reduce contact patch pending height/sidewall stiffness. For straight line acceleration you want as much length as possible vs lateral (cornering) grip wider is more betterer
When you’re too wide, she complains and wants you to slow down🥺😭
Something you have never heard.
355x 16”’hooked and booked on my 87 gn. 245s on my r/t charger stock just spins.
Will I loose some 0-60 time going from 225/55/17 to 235/50/17?
Guys also reading the comments you also have to remember when upgrading your car make sure that if you are gonna be going for more power it would behoove you to get bigger wheels and tires first so that way after you drop a massive snaily boi under the hood you can still have the grip necessary to make sure you don't mustang into a crowd of people at the car meet. Also if you're trying for a hotboi look wide wheels always look good.
“Cause race car bro”
Can I put 235/75r15 on a car that is recommended to use 205/70r15?
My current size on Toyota parado is 265 65 17 . I plan to put 275 65 17 on it just for looks is it advisable. It's a 4x4
I just went one step up too. 1" bigger wheelsl and went from 215 to 225 tires
i’m throwing some wheels and tires on my civic from fitment industries i’m going from 18x8 by 235s to 18x9.5 by 255s hopefully going to turn out okay
So I have a stock drivetrain 12v mk4 vr6 gti... 17x8.5 inch wheels on Velozza ZXV4 205/45Z tires, I have the stock 180 hp and tq, I still roast the tires anytime I launch, and I dont even rev up for launch. I'm thinking I need to get 225 tires
I'm looking to go from a 8 all around to a 8.5 and 9.5 on a 170hp car... is that wise ?
I love these videos
Can you fit. 245 wide tire on a 6.5 inch rim?
Dont forget wider setups need bigger or stronger links, tie rods, tougher bushings, etc cause of all the extra forces. I daily a Starlet GT ep82 with a 1" wider than body stance and the alignment keeps going off due to super hard shocks and stock front end setup.
What should you replace after getting wider tires?
@@Monster33336, personally after getting a wider tire/rim setup, the next step i would proceed with is suspension tuning 😀
Looking for the best ride height, alignment, spring rates/ stiffness (Rebound & Travel) for your car('s) application 👍
I do apologize for the late response. This is just my opinon, my approach maybe right or wrong, best to cross reference through forums and experts 🙏
If you use wheel that have lower offset, but still using the stock tyre width, does it increases the performance and improve cornering?
maybe 1%
hi, guys!
what's happening with Racing Hart? are they from Japan? can you make a video about them? also, can you find new CP-F Tune R? all i know is these are an old model.
thanks.
A lil food for thought, I went from OEM 19" X 8.5" front 19" X 9" rear to 19" X 9.5" front 19" X 10.5 rear with Michelin Pilot Sports on my stock g37s Coupe 6mt. Each wheel weighs about 4lbs less than my OEM set. I've noticed improvements in grip, acceleration, handling & gas mileage.
Get a 370z way better
@@Midnightvq If the 370z had 4 seats, I would've.
i just fitted 265 30 19's all around my bmw E91 it looks awesome
Add it up to the gallery and show us homie! 🙌🏽 -Edgar
www.fitmentindustries.com/add-wheel-offset
I have an NA Miata. Of course I dumped the 185 pie cutters and put on some 205x16's and lowered it. Gave it a different look, for sure. Then the engine died and I ...... LS SWAPPED IT! Then, all of a sudden, the 205's were woefully inadequate. I want to remain mostly stock looking but yet get most of the 300 hp to the ground, so I put some stickier and wider 225/45zr15 Hankook Rs4's on some xxr527's. First gear is still the smoky gear as 350 lb/ft of torque, the T56's gearing and the CTS limited slip diff I put in ensures BOTH tires light up with embarrassing ease. Second gear is similar and can smoke 'em by dumping the clutch at 4000 rpm. I have fenders rolled all the way around, but if I wanted to go wider, I would likely have to permanently alter the body and put flares on it and as stated, I want the exterior stealthy and as stock looking as reasonable. I may be incorrect, regardless, I have removed the power steering and as it drives now, I don't have any problem steering at low speeds as I don't turn from a dead stop. Wider tires can make low speed turning an activity that will give ya Popeye arms, LOL! The feel of wider tires and the manual use of a depowered rack is confidence inspiring at higher speeds, for sure!
Also: fender rolling (if needed) and tramlining.
Does it matter if they'er only riding on the corner of the wheels?
It does, I made the mistake to put 275/45/20 on my 4cylinder turbo Camaro and that just added more ego to the turbo lack of it😓😅
I got the Camaro LT1 which is a V8 but comes stock with 245's squared setup. Very little grip in every gear but fourth. Debating between a staggered 305 rear: 285 front. or 295 all around. Which one do you think will work the best? Mostly a daily driver that I want to be able to launch from and take back road corners faster on
If ya want more grip, 305's for sure. Use to run a staggered setup on my old E46 and she held on well! If anything take a look at our gallery and see what others are running for daily running! 💪 heres a link. -Edgar
www.fitmentindustries.com/wheel-offset-gallery
I’m runnin 245 40 r17. 17x9s on my 2nd Gen Veloster. Feels waaay different & people said I couldn’t do it
Got smaller thread than stock but 2" more width
Wider looks better 🤷♂️
It'd be sick if there was an app for the gallery. Tink aboot it.
These guys make a wheely good point...
My cars tyres already went from 175 to 185 before i bought it🤔
But I'm going to buy 195 wide tyres for that extra grip 😈🔥
6:57 bro you got me laughing so much with that reaction to fuel economy 🤣🤣🤣
Just a couple extra cons to add to wider tires
-hydroplaning
-tram lining
- inability to get up to proper temps in certain weather
What specs is Gels running for his wheels on his frz/brz/86?
Here is his FR-S in the gallery fam! 👉 www.fitmentindustries.com/wheel-offset-gallery/1368987/2013-scion-fr-s-artisa-artformed-carrier-tein-coilovers
I went from 205/65r15, down to the stock size of 165R15 on my 74 TR6.
The 205s were new Falkan Ziex ze960's made the steering heavy at low speed and when driving fast, it felt unpredictable at the limit. Maybe with suspension tuning this could be improved as the body roll is pretty bad with the stock spring rates and sway bar.
The 165's are new Verdestein Sprint Classics. The car feels way more manageable and fun. The limit is slower and the break away is way more predictable and progressive. Plus, the the narrow tires on stock, zero offset steel rims just looks right on the car.
My take is, step up the compound first, then consider width if you still need more grip OR you're facing tire heat issues. Narrower tites are lighter and less picky about suspension geometry. A Porsche 914 handles amazing on skinnies, but wide tires reveal that the geometry isn't perfect. If your car is on struts, chances are it'll perform better over a wider range of conditions on OE width tires. If you want to run fatties on a big-camber track alignment, you will take a hit on braking and wet performance in exchange for that turn-in. Narrow tires put more pressure on the contact patch, keeping it square on the road.
Hit the nail on the head ✌🏽
so when widebodying is wheel spacers or wider wheels better?
I would recommend wider wheels. Spacers only if you absolutely need them to dial in the fitment
If you can't break tire, from a dig, you DEFINITELY don't need a wider tire. A wider tire will improve handling, at the cost of high speed stability. The unsprung/rotating weight is a huge factor, especially in lower powered cars. And you are putting more stress on your steering components and suspension. What I was really hoping to hear about, was whether or not reducing rotating/unsprung weight would require different suspension? I am switching from my OEM 19 BMW wheels to BBS RGR's; a weight saving of 7-8 lbs/wheel.
Yes but you gotta do your alignment make sure your not too wide for the wheel
But is Wider better for a Comfortable ride, for like example a Lexury Daily driver ? I’m planning on getting some 19x9.5 all around for my AWD Lexus. Right now has 18x8.5 and I want a better ride. If I can accomplish it of course.
I can tell you I ran 19x9/19x10 on my y34 M45 daily driver. The ride was definitely a little rougher over stock wheels & tires due to tire profile. Fronts were not stretched and rears were slightly with a 255 width tire (Toyo Proxes) . Also more width made the car tramline whenever I encountered a pronounced crown in the middle of the road or freeway. Beware of the hydro planing factor like some folks mentioned. It’s definitely happens and feels amplified. Lastly wider wheels suck in snow if your daily driving. Typically I would change to my stockers since we get light snow here in winter but I was caught with the wide wheels on once and they car was slightly sketchy in light snow. You’re AWD so you might not need to worry about that. Wasn’t too bad overall and the car was pretty low on static suspension. Daily drove it for about 4 1/2 years like that.
Thank you for addressing a crucial issue.
For the same type of narrow and wide tires (same brand) there is hardly any contact patch increase or decrease, so announcing wider ones have more grip due to larger contact patch is a myth.
The difference is the shape of the each tire's contact patch. While narrow one would be more like square, the wider one would be like a rectangular (elongated to the sides).
The question is what are these people referring to the improved grip level when they switch to wider tires?
I guess it's a misconception and overall lack of testing knowledge to judge situations.
In Technik, if you gain something, generally you loose something else, it's a tradeoff..
For an example, by wider tires car gains more cornering capability but loses at braking and launching performance in return.
Bro you are the tire guy can you let me know if going up aspect ratio can damage the cars transmission? I am going up from 275/30/19 to 265/35/19 is this a big enough difference to matter?
No in fact a modern transmission should even recalculate the odometer for you
i got 285 on my stock 240z do i need wider? :O :P
Hmmm...well, a blanket statement of going bigger means more weight just isn't always true. A case in point, I went from a stock 225/55R19 on a 7" wide rim to a 245/45R20 on an 8.5" wide rim and LOST 12 lbs! Also, when you mention "performance" you tend to leave out handling and focus only on straight line acceleration. Going to a wider tire, all other things being equal, normally improves lateral acceleration in the dry.
Are you considering a 4x130 bolt pattern on your brand?
Looking to expand options soon, so possibly!