.223/5.56 DEER SLAYERS?! 5.56x45 Barnes Vor-TX TSX 62 & 70gr Ammo Test
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- čas přidán 7. 12. 2023
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In this video we’re going to do a ballistics gel test and review of the following hunting ammunition fired from the following test rifle:
- 5.56x45mm Barnes Vor-TX 62 & 70 grain TSX
- CZ 527 Carbine chambered in 223 Remington with an 18.5 inch barrel (safe to fire 5.56x45 per CZ)
All shots are fired from a distance of 100 yards to encompass the majority of common real world hunting scenarios.
I will be shooting into 10% ballistics gel from www.clearballistics.com that has been calibrated to meet the FBI ballistics testing protocol.
While ballistics gel isn’t an exact proxy for big game, small game, predators or defensive situations, it does provide a repeatable medium through which to test various bullets and ammunitions against each other.
With each type of ammo tested I collect data on bullet penetration depth, bullet weight retention, bullet expansion and muzzle velocity.
For reference, bullet expansion is measured at the widest expanded point using a calibrated Frankford Arsenal Digital Caliper.
Bullet weight is measured using a calibrated Frankford Arsenal Digital Scale after having removed as much ballistics gel as possible from the expanded bullets.
Bullet velocity is measured using a ProChronoPal chronograph set approximately 7’ from the shooting bench.
I am fully aware that a chronograph measuring bullet velocity from 7’ away from the muzzle is going to register a slower velocity than if velocity were measured directly at the muzzle, but that difference is going to be so small as to be all but irrelevant in regards to comparison of actual measured velocity versus factory stated velocity.
My goal with these ballistics gel tests is to provide hunters like you and I with the most objective information possible to help us make the best choice for our particular hunting situation.
The results of these tests are my own and I cannot guarantee the same or similar performance on your part. The views and opinions expressed in this video are solely my own.
All videos are filmed in a safe and controlled environment on a private range with all applicable safety precautions by a trained professional. - Zábava
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I have not used the Barnes ammo but I did use the AAC 70grn tsx ammo from Palmetto State Armory. Its loaded with barnes bullet. Hit a 162 pound buck at 70ish yards and he jumped, wobbled and flopped to 15 yards. Bullet blew out top of heart and shredded lung with a complete pass through. Good stuff for deer.🇺🇸
That's good to know. I tested the AAC and wanted to use it for hunting but no deer showed up this season
Interesting. I got the same results in 1983, but it took a 7mm Rem Mag. Bullet tech knowledge has come a long way.
I dropped a big doe this year with the same load. Very similar result. Sent a shot, she hopped, landed, stumbled a bit then fell down and died. When I was field dressing it I noticed that my shot entered through a rib, snaked between the heart and lungs, through another rib and out the side.
I have taken 9 deer with the 62 grain load all were one shot kills 3 dropped where they stood and none ran more than 50 or 60 yards. All of my shots were between 120 and 150 yards from a 16” barreled AR. All were complete pass throughs but the largest deer was buck with a live weight of only about 160 pounds.
Outstanding
Hands down the best ammo test video from Masonleather yet.
The key with Barnes bullets is to go lighter than you typically would. I know it goes against everything we think with cup and core bullets, but the solid copper bullets LOVE velocity. Try getting your hands on the 50gr or 45gr tsx or ttsx bullets. I know people (that don't know) buck at the idea of using that light of a bullet but once you see the performance, it will make a believer out of you. Just my .02
You are Parrot mouth talking total repeated nonsense from fools who site in bars making of nonsense story's then filter out to the most ignorant that Barns bullets are FJM bullets or Barns bullets must be pushed to hyper speeds just to open up.
Go watch the Barns bullets videos to prove to the most ignorant like you that Barns bullets don't need Hyper speeds to expand.
This kind of ignorant nonsense someone talks about make that person look like a real ignorant idiot!
I am 63 years old so from 1978 to present I have as a single income been a professional hunting & Fishing guide who has worked from the Pacific NW to Alaska.
I have used the Barns X bullets to the newer TSX - TTSX - LRX bullets and NO they do not need to be pushed to Hyper speed to expand.
I even load Barns TSX 165 grain in a 7.62x39 to be fired from the 16-inch barreled AR 15 at Black tail deer with recovered bullets are expanded so that is really slow velocities.
The trick is to go LIGHTER for caliber. Not necessarily the lightest. You still need some mass for penetration and bucking wind. I personally wouldn't go below 55 grain TSX for deer. I would run the 62s for that extra mass.
@reconrc1787 that tracks. The extra velocity should show benefit and the fact that these are all copper make them longer by weight than cup and core bullets. I personally think that's why I'm able ti run the same zero for 70gr tsx and 77gr smk.
Great testing. Thoroughly enjoyed the presentation.
You're doing some of the best testing on the Tube!
Hey Mason, another great test. Keep up the good work Sir! 👍👍
My new favorite channel, keep up the excellent work!!!
Great comparison and test Sir. Thanks.
Thanks for doing this one! I have always been curious about this load in ballistics gel
Glad to be of service!
I like this form factor of comparing two different bullet weights! Good Job as always.
Rate of rifling twist has zero affects on the length or a bullet it is all with the weight of the bullet is how rate of spin is needed.
There is allot of liars - bull shitters and video war gamers all talking allot of non sense here.
@@Lure-Benson I'm not sure if English is your second language, but it's difficult to understand your response to my comment? Bullet weight and spin was not addressed in my comment at all? I just like seeing 2 different loads tested in one video.
And as Luke Skywalker once said "Amazing everything that sentence is wrong." Twist rate changes are needed to accommodate bullet length not the weight of the bullet. Any source you look at will tell you this.
Not this load but I used a smaller 50gr Barnes TSX out of my 22-250 on a doe this weekend and I was impressed by its effectiveness. Although they were much faster at around 3800 fps. I’ll have to try them out in 5.56 sometime.
Hell yeah, great video. I hope you have the TTSX coming up. I love them.
Probably the best medium game .223 I’ve ever seen
My S&W M&P15T shoots the 62 at moa. I call it a perfect match. I absolutely love these rounds. Great video. Excellent information!
Bought some of that ammo for my 243. The 85 gr shot really good out of my Remington 700.
Great results. I had trouble getting the 70 to stabilize out of a 16" 1:9 AR-15. These were handloads. But the 62 was fine and my son harvested a young buck with 1 shot at 50 yards and dropped it. Our groups were decent but not moa.
Well done. Many thanks.
Glad to be of service!
Barnes has the copper thing figured out for sure!
I switched to copper bullets a few years ago. When I saw pictures of the expansion I thought maybe the Barnes bullet requires further research. This past season, I took a 12-pt at 110 yds with a Colt 6920 16" barrel. Wish I could post photos. The entrance and exit wounds were impressive.
I took 2 deer this season with these. 1 buck, 1 doe. Both ran about 70 yards after a heart shot. Doe had the most dramatic blood trail I've ever seen, while the buck barely bled, even though both were through and through shots
Love the 70gr 5.56 TSX! I use it exclusively out of my 11.5" SBR (1:7) Sionics.
Thank you. I really want to try this stuff.
Glad to be of service!
My 223 Wylde 18" 1:8 prefers the 62gr.
When I have rounds like these that look identical, I use Sharpies in different colors to circle the primer like it was sealant to tell them apart.
Now we definitely need the 300 blk Barnes 110’s
Keep up the good work!
Glad to be of service!
Great video!!!!
Excellent video
I've been handloading Sierra Game Kings for mine long enough to see them switch to the poly tips. For my area of Texas they keep my freezer full with the timely addition of three to four hogs through non season months.
It's the length of the projectiles that determines the twist rate, your typical 1-9 twist can normally shoot a 70gr bullet fine, those are very long for weight projectiles, great videos I really enjoy them 👌
Glad to be of service!
Glad that you pointed that out...this is typical for monolithic bullets.
Awesome video and performance. I’d love to see you do a Deer Hunting video with these loads.
Awesome video and I am a Barns guy, very awesome video and info
Both bullets performed very well. I'd pick whichever one was the most accurate in my rifle. So far I have been using the cheap .243 Win. 100 grain ammo from Winchester and Remington with good results and accuracy. But the deer and hogs in Florida are small. On larger deer, hogs and black bear, the premium bullets featured here are well worth the extra money. Thanks for another great video.
Glad to be of service!
100 grains sounds too heavy for 5.56/223 bullets.
@@brianklamer3328 thanks for pointing that out. I meant 100 grain bullets in .243.
If you can find them, try the 110 and 120 vortx Barnes 300blk. Would make a nice side by side.
Nice bullets I have them in my 7mm08
Thanks for this video. I've heard great things about the 70gr TSX and your video has sold me!
Doesn't get any better than that for the 5.56.
Absolutely!
I subbed. Your content is fantastic.
Glad to be of service!
Took my first game animal with these! They make short work of Javelina.
This gives me the warm and fuzzies about my choice for AR ammo
Glad to be of service!
Fucking thank you. I have been looking for MONTHS for someone to test 5.56 62 grain TSX in gel. There is not a single photo or video anywhere of it in gel except from Black Hills themselves. There are .223 tests of the 62 grain but that's not the same.
For the size of the deer in america why not. Hell Granny used a 22lr out the kitchen window to take her deer in the garden.
If you cut out the wound channel before you melt them down, your blocks would not get dark like that
Great test! Thanks
Glad to be of service!
Federal fusion would be an interesting test in 223
Video dropping soon
Need a few 22-250 tests.😊
I guess if you put a light source below or under the gel it gets easier to see
My rifles didn’t care for the 70 grain bullets but this was AAC ammo. One brand may shoot better than another.
Cool
❤cool video 👍
Glad to be of service!
Bullet length is more important than weight in regard to needed twist rate.
How many of you idiot video war gamers are there talking total nonsense saying length of bullets for rifling rate of twits is just not true nonsense!
Rifling rate of twist of rated in the caliber and bullet weight not length of bullets.
Anyone thinks they want to argue video war gamer nonsense with me them I can show my custom rifles i build and sell in photos so let's see what you've built in guns?
Bullet length dictates twist rate required more than the weight of the bullet.
The twist rate requirements are especially important for barnes TSX projectiles due to the fact they're copper with no lead. Lead is a denser metal, therefore, it's easy to get higher weights in shorter bullets if there is lead.
70 grain barnes tsx bullets are longer than most 77 grain projectiles, and the 62 grain barnes are longer than any other 62 grain projectile. Because of the projectile length discrepancy between lead bullets and copper bullets of the same weight, the copper rounds will require faster twists. Reports of these rounds failing to stablize from slower twist barrels got so common that barnes started printing the twist recommendations on the box apparently.
It's actually the length of the bullet that determines the twist rate needed to stabilize it so heavier bullets are longer for any given caliber
Again, I will say it because all of your video war gamers believe you know everything about firearms!
The length of bullet to rate of rifling twist has absolutely nothing to do with bullet length.
I am a custom rifle builder so when I order a barrel from Pac Nor rifle barrel company, I order the barrel for caliber and wights of bullets going to be used.
You need to educate your sell about barrels and rifling rates of twist, so you stop writing total garbage nonsense from somehow, you've taken from those video war games you are addicted to playing and rate everything in life how you think - how you dress and how you choose the clothing you wear to your hair cut to look like some Sameri warrior from a video war game.
Call Pac Nor Barrels then have a conversation about rates of rifling twist, and you will be most likely speaking to Jay
@@Lure-Benson I don't play video games you are the one that needs educated
@@lawerncemiller6557 What is wrong video war gamer PUNK ? you were so fast to talk trash to me now you've gone quiet.
What now you realize your video war gamers gun education won't ever stand up to my professional guiding and gun building I provided proof of !
Hello. I have a CZ 527 in 7.62 x 39.. I bought it thinking it would make a handy deer rifle.. I have been following your videos closely but have not seen you test the 7.62 x 39 cartridge. Is this something you would consider?
Length of bullets are a big factor in tate of twist. A 70 grain all copper .224 is longer than a lead cup and core 70 grain, probably why Barnes recommended 1 in 8 for the 70 grainer.
Bullet length for rifle twist is a big fat false!
The rate of rifling twist is rated by caliber and bullet weight only.
I suggest calling Pac Nor barrels where I by all my rifle barrels for my custom rifles and talk to Jay to educate yourself of the truth about rifle rate of twist.
Being an addicted video war game doesn't make you a gun expert!
Barnes actually used to request a 1x7 twist for the 70grs, especially when shooting from an AR with a 16inch or shorter barrel. More then a few shooters out there have had keyholeing and / or suppressor baffle strikes when running 1x9 barrels.
@@reconrc1787 Your right, and guys need to realize Barnes all copper bullets are some of the longest for equivalent weights.
@brianklamer3328 They are massive for a .224 bullet. The fist bulk load of loose 70gr Barnes bullets I got my hands on to load I had to double check to make sure I wasn't sent something wrong by mistake. I was actually really concerned about trying to load them deep enough to run through a semi-automatic rifle / magazine. On my own personal rifle, I ended up cutting the front out of a metal mag and testing to see how far out I could run them while still having the rifle cycle. One other thing about Barnes bullets, they like a little bit of a jump to the lands.
@@reconrc1787 I've only shot Barnes in factory loaded ammo, you have a lot more experience with them than I do. Have heard other men at the club say they can be finicky to reload.
These perform like Bear loads!!
I've used the 55gr on moose before. I might have had better results with one of these.
Oh just for your readers the CZ 600 says it takes Remington 700 scope mounts don't take that 100 percent true for talley and monstrum the screws on the rear locked the bolt.too long. Weaver 96t for sa700 nowhere close to matching the receiver holes .quite a bit aggravated. Anyway good luck and good hunting! Rick of Orange
Just file the screws shorter… no big deal.
Could you test the Fort Scott Munitions 5.56 70gr TUI. They showed a video of there hunt using it but we didn't see the results.
Great performance for hunting. Have tested the TSX 62gr for accuracy but unfortunately my 1990s Weatherby Vanguard 20" barrel won't stabilize them.... and it pops primers.
what was the twist rate of that gun?
@@Magnum_Express It's a 1-12 twist... it does well with the Winchester 64gr Power Point.
Out of a 5.56 these are probably pretty good. I used to load some 95 gr Barnes bullets for my .257 roberts and they were OK.
However..... I tried a box of these Barnes vortex bullets for my 45-70. 300gr.
The picture on the box shows perfect expansion, big flower like petals on the bullet. Couldn't be farther from the truth. Sight in target was on 1/2 inch plywood with stacked oak 4x4s about 4 inches behind it. The bullets blew through the plywood and were laying on the ground in front of the 4x4s. No expansion whatsoever. This was at 50 yards.
Solid copper hollow points don't expand when they hit wood. They need to hit a aqueous media to initiate hydraulic expansion
Plywood/wood and flesh are not good proxies for each other. Plywood also does not simulate living bone. I’ve used TSX’s from a 45-70 on wild hogs and ballistics gel and they performed exceptionally in both circumstances.
@dfleury8893 That's what I was wondering about. You would think though that a 300gr bullet with a listed muzzle velocity of 1925 fps would at least penetrate into the 4×4 a little, even though it didn't expand. 250gr leverevolution from my 450 bushmaster were burying in about a half inch. I know, apples to oranges. I found some 250gr leverevolutions for the 45-70 and they didn't penetrate much either but they did expand quite a bit. I'm kinda new to the big heavy bullet low velocity thing. More of a 220 swift kind of guy.
@@moose.knuckle Of course even a hammer mashed on lead caused the lead deformation.
Hammer on a lead bullet it is going to take more force to cause the bullet to deform.
Out of stock. I bought some vortex but it does cost more per round.
Once again, i enjoyed your video. I appreciate the inclusion of showing your rifles accuracy, but i will suggest you do this on a target rather than your ballistic gelatine. Placing 3 shots into a 3/4" group may change the results seen in the ballistic gel. To be clear, spreading the shots out a bit would remove this variable from the test.
The CZ chamber is .223. Shooting 5.56 spec ammo in a .223 can result in higher pressures. The higher velocities recorded could be a result of higher pressures.
Possibly so, CZ directly states the 527 can use either 223 or 5.56
@@masonleathersounds like it has the WYLDE clambering if company states both can be fired.
CZ .223 uses CIP specs ( Made in Europe). They state it will safely shoot 5.56. I have zero reason to doubt them.
How was the accuracy out of your CZ with these copper bullets? Thanks for your videos and stay safe.
Glad to be of service! I don’t recall, not bad
It might be time to retire those blocks
What other bullets are you going to try out?
I tried the 62 grain with a 1/8 twist and had no luck with accuracy. At 100 yards 5 shots, 2 stacked touching holes 3 shots missed the steel totally by 2-3 feet. Had the same problem at 50 yards as well but off by a foot with every other round. So disappointing my rifle doesn't like them. Awesome performance!
I have heard that before using solid copper bullets your barrel should be thoroughly cleaned of all copper fouling.
@@ErickaC-mc7vg I started with a freshly cleaned barrel. No good for me if it needs to be cleaned for each shot.
@@Adam-upnorthWhat I meant was the copper fouling from conventional copper jacket bullets being cleaned out before using solid copper bullets, not that it needed to cleaned for each shot. But if your rifle doesn't like these rounds then it is no good anyway. Hopefully you find something your gun likes.
@@ErickaC-mc7vg I knew what you meant. Shoot 1 and 4 were the dead on one's. 2,3, and 5 were misses so I would need to clean it better. The round performance into milk jugs was exceptional! I want a different barrel so I can use these. Just sucks my rifle will stack the m855s. I wonder if I got a bad batch. They were on clearance.
@@Adam-upnorth It does suck when a great performing round just won't shoot out of your rifle. That is so odd that the spread was that extreme, don't think I have ever seen anything that big a spread unless there was some other problem with either the firearm or the optic.
What distance are you shooting the blocks from
Those take .223/5.56 to it's performance potential on game animals. The need for fast twist barrels is annoying though. Old .223 and other .22 center fire rifles with 1:14 just dont get the benefit without hanging a new barrel on them.
I don’t know about 1:14, but 55gr TSX work well from 1:12 barrels, and the 55gr works great for deer in the woods.
The box states not for use in 223 chamber. You stated that your rifle is chambered in 223.
Are the Federal Fusions in the queue?
Hey any of you boys have any experience with run-of-the-mill bullets in 223 on deer 55 grain fiokee soft points? Or varmint bullets, just curious. Just pick me up a late in life that is CZ 600 Lux in 223 it is a pretty thing😅 1 and 9 twist judging from the way it hits metal I cannot imagine it wouldn't have enough power to pulp a deer's heart with the ensuing 50 yd death run good information thanks Rick of Orange
I wonder what the length of those bullets, that weight off all copper especially hp will be pretty long. The length of the bullet is more the reasoning for the twist rate rather than weight but the heavier the bullet the longer
That is absolute false BS and the rate of twist is rated for caliber and bullet weight not length of bullet.
When I am going to build another custom rifle, I am calling Pac Nor then order the barrel by caliber and weights of bullets going to be used not by length of bullet and that would be impossible to have barrels rated by length of bullets because all bullet length isn't the same.
@@Lure-Benson try being a little more coherent. It's called ballistic coefficientcy
@@jesseallerdings7050 When the massive number of drugs clears your body let's see you describe Ballistic coefficient ?
This should be interesting with you being an addicted to video war games and all you know about firearms - ammo - reloading and life you believe has something to do with VIDEO WAR GAMES! and being woke and gay.
Still not a Deer gun for me.
Why does it say on the box not to use them in a .223 Rem chamber?
Higher pressure
Because of a minuscule differences in a .223 Remington vs 5.56x45mm chamber dimension
Liability. Slightly higher saami specs for 5.56 pressure.
As soon as lawyers are introduced, logic goes out the window. In the real world a 5.56 round is going to create no issue in a 223
Because there is zero danger to us 5.56x45 in 223 chambers and anyone who thinks that is as ignorant about firearms and reloading.
The reloading data show 5.56x45 with 223 and there is zero difference and max powder charges exceed all and any commercial & Military loadings and some load data is so High pressured the primers after fired show flat and even the firing pin indent is pushed bad up !
So where are the blown-up guns? show me?
I have been reloading ammo since 1976 and owned ARs before Bill Clinton was president and been shooting military 5.56x45 in Remington 700s in 223 for many years in Alaska varmint hunting.
We'll that sucks right off the bat!
Using a 223 rifle for a 5.56....that stinks 🤭
Not legal for big game in my Province.
What province? These aren’t full metal jacketed rounds. Is that the issue?
On a note about barrel twist. If you are buying a 5.56 that has a barrel twist that isn't 1/8 or 1/7 you are wrong. Modern ammo is far superior to the stuff coming out in the 60's and requires at least 1/8 to be effective.
My old Bushmaster HBAR 16 inch 1 in 9 twist loves heavy long bullets. I’m getting.42 MOA at 100 with this stuff. So can’t always go by twist rates I think sometimes it’s the quality of craftsmanship and materials used.
@@jeffmurphy9987 well yes quality above all. And your hbar is older 1/9 was popular then. I'm saying with the knowledge we have today if you pick a brand new barrel with something slower than 1/8 you are setting yourselfup for failure.
But how well does it stay stabilized out to 500yds shooting 77gr? And it can also affect terminal performance. But you also have a 1/9 that is still very close to the 1/8 that is very popular today. Not a 1/12 that i have seen on some rifles that definitely cannot stabilized heavy bullets.
My comment has been deleted 2ce in 30 seconds
Do you just stop reading instructions? You can read the twist rate but fail to notice the part about NOT firing this in a .223 Rem.
Yes, the world did in fact, come to an end because he chose to shoot 5.56 thru HIS .223 rifle rated for 5.56 by the manufacturer.
Just semantics here, but there is only one 5.56 NATO. The SS109 M855 green tip. All other loadings are just referred to as 5.56X45. No NATO.
For instance, M193 is a 5.56X45 loading. No NATO in its name. 🤠
every ammo maker slaps "NATO" at the end of the 5.56 name to clear up confusion if i had to guess. Already confusing enough that people constantly ask if their 223 rem. can shoot 5.56 or vice versa.
The box clearly says not suitable for use in .223 - proceeds to shoots out of a .223
Clearly state that CZ specifically states that all CZ 527’s can safely fire 5.56 regardless of the barrel stamp.