FIRST LOOK at RatRig's V-Core 4!
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
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The folks at @ratrighardware have launched V-Core 4, their latest line of 3d printers, and we got to take a better look at it at @rockymountainrrf 2024! Check out this video to learn a bit more about the all new platform from RatRig. How they are using 4 motors to producing higher acceleration 3d printing, but NOT running AWD on their printer. "Hybrid Core-XY" what is that? Watch to learn more and how it more easily be upgraded to IDEX!
Learn more here: v-core4.ratrig.com/
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Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
0:30 - Brilliant Sponsor Spot
2:00 - V-Core 4 Basics
2:26 - Hybrid Core-XY
3:50 - Upgrades IDEX & More
4:47 - ToolShift Rapid Toolhead Swaps
5:31 - Build Volume Options
5:42 - MMU, Aux Fans, Chamber Heater, & More!
6:07 - Electronics & Wiring Simplified
6:26 - Final Thoughts
7:04 - Outro
** This video was sponsored by Brilliant **
Disclaimer: This is not a paid advertisement for RatRig. This video is solely my opinions from the use of these products and based on the specifications of them. Some of the links provided are AFFILIATE LINKS. Affiliate links give the MandicReally a small advertising fee for every purchase made via those links. This does not cost you anything more than if you purchased them normally, but helps support further video production.
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I won the ratrig formnext printer from last year. It's been a machine to print with and one thing you don't get mentioned is how good ratos is. It just fully streamlines the software part so you can just have fun and print.
I'm one of the people that ordered one in the early bird release. I ordered a 400mm hybrid. I've never owned a RatRig before so I'll be watching your video closely because I'm sure you'll get one before I get mine. I'm going to get the IDEX as soon as it's available.
I'm curious about the cost.
Is it similar to a 2.4?
I’m waiting for the idex to come out and the new voron idex to see which one is better.
I'm kinda sad I only was able to find out about this yesterday. But I placed an order request for the 500mm. I'm going all out lmao. I will get the IDEX upgrade for sure, and future MMU upgrades.
@@xIsouLcruSHca yes 300mm 1200 euros 400mm 1350 euros 500mm 1500 euros
Great content with this video! I was very impressed with this machine at RMRRF and will be keeping my eye on it for future printers to maybe add to my workforce. Was great to meet you in person as well!
Great to meet you as well. Hoping these machines can be beasts in my workflow. I'm sure I'll be sharing to journey so others can see how they'll fit for them.
Can't wait to watch you build it, Mandic!
caught you in the background of cnc kitchen 's vlog from the show, next too the hueforge booth....LoL
Damnit, now I want one too, the 500 IDEX to be specific 😊
You should definitely get subscribed to Mandic Labs then, that is where my 500 build will happen! czcams.com/channels/ViRyNkR_B198VyJ6ECDvGQ.html
@@MandicReally already am my friend, already am... and waiting patiently :)
Hybrid coreXY sounds super promising
I’m so curious to see an input shaped graph… May have to remove the belt and rerun without it to see the difference too.
Already checked it, also possible on a trident without loss of build space. Not sure about the 2.4, mainly for attaching the cartesian y axis belt
On a trident it's good but worse than awd
@@adeo awd comes always with a loss in build volume on a trident or 2.4, at least not aware of a setup where you cab reach the full build plate, the front corners are pretty mich always obstructed. And is it really worse? The ratrig would always have at least two motors for a movement, in this case for a pure x movement. On a core xy awd the weakest movement would be a diagonal movement, also two steppers are involved. For a diagonal movement on the ratrig you have 3 active motors and any movement thats not pure x or diagonal you have 4. There are also more belts on the y axis (two long ones and two short ones) while on a awd you only have two long ones. Hybrid core xy helps with y axis input shaper, awd helps all around. The question is, will become the x axis on a hybrid setup the limiting factor or is still the y axis the slowest axis? If former is true, then awd is better for speed, if last is true, then hybrid is most likely better. But in the case of the ratrig with the possibility for idex, a hybrid setup is more or less required, nobody in the world wants to deal with 8 pieces of belt running across the x axis. We also shouldn't forget that the ratrig has 9mm belts, the vzbots and voron awd mods still have 6mm belts
Alan you've done it, you've finally ran out of Voron builds, congrats brother. Perhaps we'll see a Voron CNC or Sub Zero on the channel. In all seriousness though, this design from Rat Rig looks awesome, looking forward to seeing it on your channel.
Yea, after the 4th or 5th V0, it is probably time to move on, haha. Look out for more stuff in the future. I won't stop at RR, I'm sure of that.
@@MandicReally Agreed, looking forward to it.
Im really interested in a 400 cubed idex. Such a great solution for production of parts
Tried the hybrid on the Snakeoilxy a while back. If the belt path and tensioning is good, it's solid. They call it extended corexy.
I noticed the SnakeOil implementation when looking around to see if it had been done before, after we initially got the idea and couldn't really figure out how far they took it. They put a lot of emphasis on gantry deracking via homing the y motors independently, which i still don't understand or see any need for - it implies uneven tensioning. So i was under the impression it never really got off the ground? Care to share more of your experience?
@@miklschmidt Personally I think the idea of hybrid corexy is great. But only when the printer is certainly designed with it in mind. For me the 180 snakeoilxy I have and tried it on doesn't already have a lot of room to work with. Everything was a tight fit. Had issues with the toolhead colliding with motors. Tensioning and looping the belts was not fun. The ratrig certainly executes it a better for sure. As for the additional endstop was certainly there to avoid any deracking I'm sure. But it was never clear. SnakeoilXY is mostly a very small group of devs so they moved on to other projects right now, Like their Proosaxy, Which takes an existing prusa mk3s and turn into a corexy printer.
@@GmanL18P i see, makes sense! Thanks for the follow up :)
Im curious how they implement the non idex hybrid software wise. Regular core xy hybrid would have a x and y stepper in the cfg, x being core xy kinematic, y being cartesian. You can easily add another y motor, just label it y1. Im mostly curious how they did the second core xy motor. Labels it as x1 would result in it doing exactly the same as x0, but that doesn't work and browsing the configuration reference of klipper i haven't found a setting to assign one motor to the cartesian axis or core xy axis.
Unfortunately the hybrid corexy implementation is klipper is incomplete, and we had no success in submitting even simple PR's to allow for inverted belt paths when running in IDEX mode, so we wrote our own, fixed the bugs and extended the capabilities. It's set up as x, y, y1, y2 with x,y as corexy steppers and y1 and y2 as cartesian.
Nice to se Portugal making big moves 🎉
Im not sure idex uses core xy. My guess is the core xy motors does an x on each toolhead and the hybrid motors carry on doing y
To my understanding you are correct, Miguel the CEO of RatRig explained that is the long & short of it in another comment.
the IDEX and the Hybrid version do use the same kinematic. Its a combination of CoreXY for the toolhead and Cartesian for Y, thats why its called hybrid
Imagine IDEX with ams, while one head is printig, the other can change filament resulting in up to 0s waiting vor filament changes
I think it will probably be difficult to processes all of those things at one time. Klipper usually processes in order of commands, so it may have to wait for one to complete, but if they can figure out concurrent commands happening, that would be AMAZING.
That's what I'm hoping for with the new bambu lab printer that is releasing this year
Can you please clarify on the active chamber heater option? Not enough high performance printers are including this which is a shame.
They are only teasing the possibility right now, so no I cannot give you any more information at this moment unfortunately. As soon as I know more I'll try and find a way to share the information on my various platforms or in a video.
since im addicted to speed (currently trying it with my 2.4) and the ratrig is just super high quality... i will absolutely need it one day... 😅 (with one day i mean asap, just the possible isnt given at the moment xD)
i just noticed that even the IDEX has the hybrid coreXY, which means that there are 6 motors on the gantry and an additional 3 for the bed
nope just four motors (and 3 for Z)
The graphic they produced that shows the swap from Hybrid to IDEX is not accurate. It doesn't show the belt path for the IDEX setup, still shows the Hybrid configuration. The second set of motors that WERE the Hybrid motors will control the second toolhead. So it is still just 4 motors for X/Y & 3 for the Z.
At least that is my understanding of the setup. I can confirm with RR later.
@@MandicReallyGreat video man! High quality as always 🔥 the infographic picture is actually correct, the top Y steppers remain with the same belt path. The A and B motor are the ones which control the individual toolheads. So the belt path from hybrid to Idex is really similar
@@MandicReally xy will be now X and x1 and the y will be done by the 2 y motors. Can confirm this as i have a vcore4 idex 🤣
So, how do i program klipper to make it hybrid? I have at least one printer this would work on.
An answer I don't have. That is something I'm thoroughly interested in learning more about for sure.
You just use hybrid-corexy as the kinematic variant
As someone that's new to 3D printing (I have a P1S) I've gotten the itch to build a printer and I'm not completely sure where to start. First I was looking at Voron's because they seem to be the most well known, and there seems to be an abundance of info out there about building/troubleshooting them. But RatRig seems like an interesting option as well. Now I really don't know what I want lol
I generally recommend starting small, something like a Voron 0 is very fiddly to build due to its size, but it is also the least $$ investment and one of the overall easier build. Aside from the fiddly nature of smaller parts. I'll be doing a series of Streams on the Mandic Labs channel when I build the RatRig, so that should hopefully show how that goes. I haven't built one yet to give much more than that.
Sounds very promising...I hope they release upgrade kits for the v-core 3.1. I'd love to upgrade mine into a hybrid corexy
I know they are hoping to trickle design elements down, hopefully we will see upgrade kits. I know so many things of the 4 have changed that a full upgrade kit would basically rebuild the printer so that is unlikely, but hopefully quite a few of the elements trickle down.
@@MandicReally That's really good to hear! Thanks for the reply. The ratrig toolhead was already a massive speed upgrade for me, a few added trickle down features and i'll be able to call it v-core 3.5 :D
ya I have heard of Rat Rigs for a long time as a competitor to Voron design printers, but....ya, I'm with ya, real interested in a 500x500 Core X/Y printer kit that is fully enclosed. It probably WON'T be cheap but, if you can run real big batch prints faster, or print LARGE objects with zero ringing like some of the large Cartesian types have some issues with....I'll be watching for this too.
I have two Neptune 4 Max's as my big printers, and a Voron 2.4 350 and the Neptunes are decent in their speeds, but the kinematics are what hold them back. Their Jerk Settings are very slow because of the big big bed, but it can still do decent speeds of about 350 print speed wise, provided you have HS PLA in. They are rated for 500, but I don't believe it for the Max version, the base line one (Neptune 4 and 4 Pro), ya, but not the Plus or Max.
My Neptune 4 Max has let me down enough, I'm over bed slingers at that size personally. It is time for a big Core-XY in my life that won't have the bed slinging around. Even if I couldn't go FAST with it, I'll just be happy to have improved print quality. I just did a big project last week with the N4Max and was entirely unhappy with the final print results as far as quality is concerned.
I'm looking so hard at this
👀👀👀👀👀👀
With multi material prints those tool heads would need to be independent, but they're attached to the same XY rail so how does that work?
Separate belt paths. The graphic they produced doesn't show the belt path accurately for IDEX, it still displays the Hybrid-Corey-XY setup. The second set of motors and belts operate the second toolhead. That is why there is a direct upgrade path from Hybrid Core-XY to IDEX.
@@MandicReally I get you now, I was thinking it hat to separate belts, otherwise I was thinking like a similar system to the prusa XL
@@MandicReally its the correct belt path, the idex and the hybrid share the exact same kinematic, only difference is instead of attaching both belts to one toolhead, you attach one belt per toolhead
good videos...subbed
Idex with mmu needs to happen.
Do you have the true printable area size (on the Z specifically)
Not yet. I will once the machine arrives. X/Y should be 300 no problem as there is extra room for toolhead parking with IDEX. Judging by the scale of the machine I anticipate 300 on Z will likely be accurate as well, but that is a guess.
@@MandicReally thanks - my concern is that the 350 Voron 2.4 is not 350 in the Z
@@txwombat7826 Oh I understand, my 300 V2.4 is more like 265 with the Kinematic Bed & default design. I'll let you know when I know. I'm certain I will max out the Z on the machine, I always do to see where the claims lie.
@@txwombat7826 it's cubic, with some room to spare :)
How are they going to put a vcore right next to a huge voron logo
Cause Fabreeko sells parts for numerous designs. The Voron booth with the majority of the Voron team was next to Fabreeko too. No one has any beef with anyone about brand loyalties when it comes to the folks actually making the machines.
That's really smart! Will this thing run klipper?
It runs RatOS, which is RatRig's branch of Klipper designed to be easier to configure and operate. I've not had any experience with it yet, this will be my first time.
@@MandicReally thank you for your reply, I'm looking forward to the stream!
To clarify RatOS doesn't fork klipper, it's still vanilla klipper mainline, RatOS adds stuff on top to make it a more complete experience that only requires a few clicks to get everything running :)
RatOS 2.1 runs an entirely managed, automatically generated config. If you use one of the 30+ supported boards/toolboards, you don't have to write any configuration or even look at a commandline.
@@miklschmidt Thank you for that clarification! I haven't used RatOS so far but it sounds like it can be useful (or at least a bit faster) for setting up non-RatRig printers too albeit with a few changes to the config.
@@yoanfilipov3747 There's indeed experimental support for the V2.4, V0, Prusa Mini and Prusa MK3S, and there will be a custom printer option in the future :) Of course you can always just use one of the existing ones as a base and just override what you need in printer.cfg to make it run on pretty much anything :)
It's some very sexy engineering. Now I want yet another printer. This is a problem.
looks like a great printer to build upon
Does support carbon fibre infused filaments ?
That's all down to the Extrusion system. The Extruder, Hotend, & Nozzle. Those are easy enough to spec for carbon filaments.
it comes by default with a orbiter 2.0 and a rapido 2.0, with the correct nozzle you can print CF materials, no problem
SIIICK. I want one. Ratrig is now innovating in a way that we aren’t seeing a lot of other companies doing lately.
Super cool machine, but my biggest issue with it is the colour. I really do not want a giant black box in my home. Would be nice with colour options for the extrusions so we can then pair that with custom coloured self sourced panels.
As someone who just wrapped up a white, pink, blue, and purple build, I feel this. Color options would be a big improvement. Hopefully in time we can see that. The hard part is likely since they use 30-series extrusions they are limited on selection of who they can get them from. 20-series is far more popular and has the wider range of options. Maybe I'll see about being crazy and getting mine custom powder coated, ha.
20 seconds in, we get a 2min ad...
30 seconds in, a 90 second ad...
How do you pay your bills? Cause this is how I pay mine. I wish I didn't have to run ads, but the bill collectors don't accept views as payment.
@@MandicReally I get it.. cant the ads be the last 90 sec of the video?
@@adamfilipowicz9260 Sponsors demand it be within the first 2 minutes. Some larger channels get to negotiate that point, I'm not big enough to have that power. They know folks will just stop watching the video (which is also terrible for me as a creator) if it is at the end. I timestamp them so they are easy to skip over, that's all I can do and still do my job. It is all a balancing act of keeping sponsors & viewers happy. I try but especially as I'm facing moving cross country right now, I don't have much power at the moment.
@@MandicReally All good dude. looking forward to your Vcore4 500 build
SponsorBlock & Ublock origin extensions, you won't regret installing them.