Puppet or Annex | HOI4 Guide
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- čas přidán 11. 05. 2024
- In this video, we will talk about when to annex and when to puppet during a peace conference.
In this video:
- My general approach to peace conferences.
- When to annex and what to prioritize in the first turn of the conference.
- When to puppet and what advantages puppets have over annexed territories.
- How to strategically use your puppets to reduce the fronts you have to protect.
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Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:46 What to Annex
02:08 What to Puppet
03:40 War Reparations & Resource Rights
04:11 Why not just annexing everything?
06:40 Another Advantage of Puppets
07:50 A Brief Summary
09:27 Outro
Hi, I am (a) Machiavellian Strategist, on my channel you will regularly find new videos on a variety of games. As you may have guessed, I like strategy oriented games the most, but my only rule is to play something I enjoy and I am passionate about.
I am not a pro, but I hope I will be able to share my passion for videogames with you!
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#heartsofiron4 #hoi4 #History #bybloodalone #italy - Hry
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There is another thing I often do in peace conferences and that I forgot to mention, I usually take the enemy fleet if I have spare points during the last turns.
Since I do not like the Navy much, I prefer to steal it from other nations rather than researching/building it myself.
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Warships from a peace conference tends to be shorter range ship hull designs from the 1920s and 1930s. To someone who is playing as Italy, warship range is not very important, because the part of the ocean that is really important to Italy, the Mediterranean Sea, is essentially fully reachable by the short combat radius of even a 1920s era destroyer from Italy's game start seaports in Sardinia or the Italian Peninsula or the Dodecanese Islands. (Combat radius is half of the average ship range in a naval task force, and limits how far out from a friendly seaport a ship can engage on missions like convoy escort missions in Hearts of Iron 4.)
To someone playing as Japan or the USA in Hearts of Iron 4, task force range is important. A 1920s era destroyer can really pull down the combat radius of a naval task force, so much so that in the 1940s when longer range ships are available, a 1920s era destroyer might get put into a seaport that has an overland connection to the capital, and then disbanded. (Disbanding a warship in a seaport that has an overland connection to the capital gives the best chance of recovering 100% of the manpower of the disbanded warship.)
There are also considerations other than range. The newer warship hull designs, especially from the 1940s, offer more opportunity for speed, have higher HP, and have more weapons slots. You will hardly ever get 1940s era warships from peace treaties though.
Short version: If especially short range warships from the 1920s can mostly fill a need, perhaps laying sea mines near a friendly coastline or engaging in convoy escort missions near a friendly coastline or engaging in convoy raiding missions near a friendly coastline, then getting short range warships from a peace treaty can be highly useful, especially if you have spare oil for operating those warships. The Soviet Union is the classic case of a country that can use any warships that it can get in a peace treaty, with lots of coastline to guard, but with not enough warships to guard that coastline, and with lots of spare oil production to fuel more warships.
@@wendydelisse9778 Thank you for your very detailed comment!
I am sure it can help viewers to understand that aspect better (since I forgot to mention it in the video).
Learning more about navies is on my "to-do" list hehe.
Since I literally only use navies for naval invasions, I do not pay much attention to their stats. Having more, whatever the quality, makes it easier to have a quick naval superiority and trigger the invasion.
If I knew more about navies, and used them properly, I am sure I would benefit more from having better upgraded ones!
Since your bias is toward naval invasions, here are some overall tips, and also some invasion-specific tips.
A fleet operates within a set of seazones that you specify. Two different fleets can have an overlapping sets of seazones, or even identical sets of seazones. This means that you can have an invasion preparation fleet operating in just the one seazone just outside of the targetted invasion seaport days or weeks or months in advance of your sea invasion of the enemy seaport, without interfering with your invasion support fleet when the invasion actually happens.
A fleet has a fleet efficiency that goes down gradually with the number of seazones that it covers, but can drop dramatically if a fleet covers seazones on two different sides of the same strait or canal. It's also nice if a fleet's home seaport is close to where the fleet is operating. It's also nice if that home seaport is not on the other side of a strait or canal. Single-seazone fleets tend to operate with a high efficiency percentage, particularly if its home base is both nearby and not on the other side of a strait or canal.
Your sea mines outside of the invasion target will give you a multiplier that is greater than one on your naval superiority there. Your sea mines can also sometimes interfere with supplies of any enemy defenders of the seaport. Submarines designed with sea mines in one or more of the submarine's weapons slots usually make the best minelayers, because submarines are sneaky and therefore not likely to be caught when laying sea mines. As such, your single-seazone invasion preparation fleet should include a lone wolf submarine in a task force of its very own to lay sea mines. As with any submarine, it should be set to repair upon medium damage. A mission, a minelaying mission for example, can be defined at the task force level, instead of at the fleet level, so it is doable for a fleet to have multiple dedicated separate missions underway. The mine laying submarine should be set to engage with low risk. That means that your submarine can attack unescorted enemy sea convoys that have the ill fortune to come too close while your submarine is laying mines, but will flee upon sighting any enemy surface warships, in order to reduce the chance of being detected long enough to be chased down. Sometimes, an enemy warship will strike one of your seamines, and will have to go into port for repairs. An enemy ship while in port for repairs does not count toward enemy naval superiority.
Enemy sea mines will apply a multiplier less than 1 to your naval superiority. Enemy sea mines will also interfere with your supplies when your soldiers conquer the enemy seaport. If at all possible, have a lone wolf submarine equipped with minesweeping ability search for enemy seamines, and in its very own task force within the invasion preparation fleet. Concealment is important just in the minelaying submarine, so as with the minelaying submarine, the minesweeper submarine should be set to engage with low risk.
One submarine should be on a patrol mission in the invasion preparation fleet. It should be set to medium risk. Medium risk means that it will attack any enemy sea convoy or any enemy capital ship if no enemy screen ships are detected. Naval superiority is approximately based on warship manpower. If an enemy battleship gets sent to port for repairs because of a torpedo hole, that's thousands of enemy manpower waiting for months in port for their battleship to get repaired who in the meantime no longer contribute to the enemy's naval superiority number.
One submarine should be on convoy raiding duty, set to engage at high risk, meaning that an entire enemy death fleet can be there, but it will still consider trying to sink any enemy sea convoy that it sees. Like any other submarine, it should be set to repair upon receiving medium damage. If all of the enemy sea convoys get sunk, or your submarine receives enough damage to meet the medium damage requirement, your submarine will go through a disengagement phase, in which it tries to sneak away while shooting torpedoes at whatever enemy ship is closest, until it either succeeds in sneaking away or gets sunk. Sinking enemy sea convoys just outside of the enemy seaport can overall damage enemy supply capability, especially near that enemy seaport. Any enemy warships with torpedo holes from your submarine's disengagement phase are probably enemy ships that won't be back in action for months, if ever.
Short version: At the seazone near the enemy's seaport that you want to invade, you want a lot of your seamines to be there, sea mines that you know the location of because you were the one who laid them. You also want no holes in your ships from enemy sea mines. You also want a submarine nearby waiting for any enemy capital ships that have disengaged alone from their fleet for repairs after striking one of your sea mines or that have disengaged alone due to suffering sea battle damage during the actual sea invasion. You also want a submarine waiting to torpedo any enemy reinforcements sent in by sea before your sea invasion, or sent afterward to bolster enemy port defense if your sea invasion fails.
The 4 task forces in your invasion preparation fleet somewhat reinforce each other, particularly since enemy damage from your single-submarine minelaying task force can help lead to success for the other 3 single-submarine task forces in your invasion preparation fleet. The manpower in your 4 invasion preparation task forces also contribute in a direct manner to your naval superiority number in the seazone that adjoins the enemy seaport to be invaded.
Submarines can engage in a lot of mission types, have long range like a cruiser, have only 1/4 the per day fuel as a crusier, and are sneaky. As such, an invasion preparation fleet consisting of 4 single-submarine task forces with separate mission types is a great type of easy to build an inexpensive fleet for helping gain naval superiority just outside of an enemy seaport that is marked for invasion.
@@wendydelisse9778 All I can say is: "thank you so much!"
You basically wrote a guide for me, this will be incredibly useful when I will try to approach the naval part of the game more in detail!
One other note about submarines is a fear factor effect on an enemy fleet if detected. All enemy battleships flee, because they are considered to be too valuable to risk against submarines. Also all big gun cruisers flee, because having big guns make them be considered to be too valuable to risk against a submarine. The enemy fleet therefore becomes less compact and fights less effectively, sometimes much less effectively.
All enemy destroyers and all enemy small gun cruisers stay for the fight though. It used to be that medium gun cruisers would always stay for the fight too, but things changed recently. A medium gun cruiser without depth charges will now always run away if an enemy submarine is detected. I do not know what happens now if a medium gun cruiser has depth charges and an enemy submarine is detected. Maybe you or one of your viewers will find out and tell me sometime.
Short version: The fear factor from the mere presence of your submarines will sometimes cause the enemy fleet to fight much less effectively against your invasion support fleet. That fear factor is one more reason to have some of your submarines in the seazone that is adjacent to your invasion target. Also, even if it is the minelaying or minesweeper submarine that gets detected, it will immediately enter disengagement mode and shoot torpedoes at the nearest enemy ship as part of its getaway attempt, causing a reduced enemy Organization stat even if all of the torpedos miss. A reduced enemy Organization stat will cause the enemy response fleet to be even less effective against your invasion support fleet.
My general rule is: annex if i have a core or need it for a focus, otherwhise puppet
Yep, that's basically it!
Or if it looks cool for my borders :)
Yes the borders are the only thing that matter.
@@tempejkl
*or if you have a 100% colab government in which case you can go on civilian oversite with no resistance and 101% of resources and factories and 100% of manpower or you could make a colab government and not deal with garrison and still have 70% of factories (if you’re not Italy though).
Sometimes, a good tiebreaker on whether to annex or puppet is a focus tree of a potential puppet that would favor peppering or a decision, especially a repeatable decision, that ownership of a territory would grant, in which case annexing would be favored.
The Focus Tree of Turkey contains a nice option for increasing steel production, so a country short of steel like Portugal might find Turkey to be a nice puppetting opportunity.
Owning Madagascar grants the owner a decision that is repeatable a couple of times a year to add rubber plantations in Madagascar, so a country that is short of rubber might favor annexing Madagascar over puppetting Madagascar.
Short version: A Focus Tree of a potential puppet can sometimes favor puppeting, while a decision available in case of becoming the owner can favor annexing.
Makes sense, I did not know about Turkey and Madagascar!
Of course Turkey is better annexed as Italy if you are going for the Roman Empire, since you can core it. But for other nations puppeting might indeed be the way to go!
There are various repeatable resource-granting decisions around the world that are typically unlockable by way of researching the proper Excavation tech. Excavation 3 seems to be the most common Excavation tech needed to unlock those repeatable resource development techs. In order to research Excavation 3, one first has to research Construction 3. Normally, once unlocked, such decisions tend to have an invocation limit of 5 or 10, but a small fraction of those decisions can be invoked a dozen or more times. The repeatable rubber plantation development decision unlockable for whoever owns or controls Madagascar is merely one of many repeatable resource development decisions that are unlockable that are scattered throughout the world.
@@wendydelisse9778 Thank you for sharing, this can be helpful, especially in a long game where resource rights from your puppets might expire!
Useful advices, we definitely don't need to annex systematically. I always rush to seize the navies, which means easily 1800+ ships by 1944, but you're right I should focus more on resources, always forget that. By the way I think there's a glitch in your explanation: you don't get 15 resources from Italian Belgium for nothing, you have to spend 1 IC to get 10 or 16 resources (don't remember the exact number, varies for puppet / integrated puppet / if you're Britain it can go up to 80).
True I was surprised too, usually you get very convenient deals but not entirely free!
@@MachiavellianStrategist That accent seems Italian, quell'accento mi sembra molto italiano è uno dei nostri?
@@AshleyGravesreal Certo che è uno dei vostri! hehe
@@MachiavellianStrategist Ah fantastico allora mi inscrivo con piacere comunque il suo inglese è molto bello ma l'accento si nota
@@AshleyGravesreal Grazie! Ogni singolo sub conta, e se compaesani tanto meglio! L'accento ci rende unici!
Good job, I learnt something new😍
Great to hear! Thank you!
Very interesenting! Tnx!! I think i just make a mess with my last peace conference... But anyway, thanks for your help! Really helpful! Keep going like that!!
Thank you!
super nice
thank you!
You are welcome!
Good video thank you
Thank you! You are welcome!
If I'm playing Germany it's all about them puppeted heavy metals and oil friendship with a cost as god intended.
Yes, puppets can be amazing for solving the shortage of raw materials. Germany tends to struggle for rubber and oil, and taking the East Indies as a puppet can solve that entirely!
When it comes to puppeting, what is your thought process when it comes to puppeting smaller nations, for example splitting the USSR into many small puppets instead of leaving them in control of all their territory?
Hi! Overall it does not make a huge difference, however, in terms of what you get from them it would be slightly better to always split them into smaller puppets, because each one will have its own focus tree and will develop its own economy.
This is particularly true when creating a puppet with countries owning land which is not their core (for example Germany after WW2). In that case, creating puppets which have cores will yield better results than having one larger puppet owning non-core land.
All of this being said, I usually prefer to have fewer bigger puppets because I find them easier to manage (for example, should you decide to annex them at some point, it would be much easier to annex fewer of them).
@@MachiavellianStrategist That and the tedium of puppeting all the diffrent nations in for example the UK or USSR, which is an argument in favor of not splitting them up.
@@Jens_Heika indeed!
One question: if I'm playing with a country with 100 factories and I completely annex another country, will I have 190 factories, but if I puppeteer, will I still have 190 factories?
If I understood your question correctly:
You do not get all of the factories the country you are conquering has in any case (regardless of annexing or puppeting).
The amount of factories you get when you annex depends on the compliance level (which usually takes quite a long time to build up).
The amount of factories you get from your puppets depend on the integration level of your puppet, but you already get more factories by default compared to an annexation.
Also, occupied (annexed) non core land requires a garrison and will burn through your manpower, while puppets do not require any garrison and offer you free divisions.
@@MachiavellianStrategist oh, I didn't know that puppets give factories, thanks for responding
@@red_king6844 you are welcome!
Do I take population and factories into account?
The short answer is: no, just take what you need or can core and puppet the rest.
Your puppets share military factories with you, more the lower their autonomy is.
You can also demand their forces (which they give you from time to time for free anyway).
So both from the factories and manpower points of view, puppets still seem to be the way to go.
I believe they do not share civilian factories and dockyards, but when puppeting you usually also take war reparations and their fleet.
Naturally, you can always annex them later once their resource rights and war reparations expire (although I usually still find it more beneficial to keep them as puppets).
It all depends upon how you wish them to be...some territories are worth annexing than puppeting and vice versa ... territories with huge resources like Malaysia,South Africa etc. are better off being annexed as it would make you swim in abundant resources... territories like Australia are better off being your puppet as you can just use their troops to garrison their land and not bother about them for the rest of your game ....I usually don't trade with my puppets as it increases their autonomy...
Good point, although I do not entirely agree.
Or better, I would say it depends on short vs long term goals.
In the short term, puppeting with resource rights gives you all the resources at 0 costs. In the long term, if you plan on investing in those territories, it can make sense to annex them, as resource rights eventually expire, while annexation is forever hehe.
That being said, you can also do both things, puppet at first, and peacefully annex later on, when the resource rights are about to expire.
This music makes me think im taking an online course on sexual harassment.
Almost exactly what it is!
I cant tell if this guy is finnish or italian
Haha I did not think the two accents could be similar!
His channel says he's Japanese
@@asdawasda Italian living in Japan is the final answer!
you should probably puppet france so you get a free vichy cause it automatically annexes vichy
Mmm, interesting. Do they annex them right away? The thing is, you need to directly own all costal provinces to reform the empire, so you would need to annex them in any case eventually.
@@MachiavellianStrategist yeah they annex instantly i think, the think is that you also get their troops once you annex them through the puppet mechanics
also i dont really understand why you needed to make a buffer between you and the soviet union, just dont declare on them if you dont wanna fight them
@@SmashingCapital I don't particularly like using the troops of my puppets as they are usually underwhelming.
As for the buffer states, it is very convenient to have them between you and your potential enemies as they will act as a shield, they reduce your active fronts, and you can still call them into war if you want to attack from that specific side, or use them for naval invasion!
Puppets are extremely valuable for all of these things.
@@MachiavellianStrategist oh yeah but you can just simply disband those new units or convert them, its a lot of free equipment you get
You also get their stockpile
@@SmashingCapital True, thanks for the suggestion! I might implement it in my next Roman Empire guide!
How to puppet?
It is one of the options in the peace conference at the end of the war. Mind that the war must be over, before the final peace conference you can only occupy the enemy territories.
@@MachiavellianStrategist time to wait 5 years for ww2 to end
@@StackND hehehe the wars before WWII are the best to puppet something and get some extra resources. But there may still be some opportunities after the war starts. If you are with the Axis for example, you can usually take Spain and Vichy France without them joining any faction!
@@MachiavellianStrategist im playing as romania and i invaded Bulgaria in 1939 and bulgaria joined allies because i was in the axis lol
@@StackND Romania is one of the countries I plan to play next! In theory i think you should still be able to get Vichy France and Spain, the problem is that you probably do not have the fleet to do so.
This is what's comes to my mind when you say puppet : 🤌🇮🇹
Great video!
Hahaha thanks!
I play with mods that i can make after a big war cool borders
What mods are you using?
you also core ireland
True, Ireland can also be cored with the Roman Empire!
@@MachiavellianStrategistso i dont have to make collab before i annex if i play as Roman empire?
@@Lifelimit94 hi! I find collaboration governments especially useful to capitulate stronger opponents faster (Germany, Soviet Union, USA) so i still use them.
But with the Roman Empire you do not need compliance in any of the potential cores as you can reintegrate all of them. So in terms of compliance build up they are basically useless.
Wait sei italiano?
Sì!
lower the background music
Hi! Yes this is an older video, I adjusted the volume a bit better for more recent ones!
annexation is practically always optimal
Mmm, why do you prefer annexation over puppeting?
I would actually tend to say the opposite, making puppets with resource rights and war reparations is almost always better in my opinion.
@@MachiavellianStrategist The reason I prefer annexation is because the benefits of proper occupation are better than having a puppet with cores in the long term. The reparations and resource rights cannot always be implemented due to war score limitations in by blood alone, which is my main problem with it. Then there is the issue of lag and puppets wasting their resources, the reoperations system only takes factories that existed before hand, leaving the ai with any future factories. In almost all cases, if you are playing a country with a significant manpower base, you don't need puppets for anything except logical borders.
@@AmericanCaesarian I see your point but I'm not entirely convinced. Reparations concern what the puppeted country had at the time of the peace conference, but you can still import resources from them at incredibly convenient rates (even without resource rights) and you still get the factories you build in the territories of your puppets.
Annexing means managing the resistance and wasting manpower on occupation garrisons.
Another huge advantage of puppets is that they cannot be attacked if you do not call them into your wars. This is massive not only to protect your borders, but also to protect your resources.
Eventually, once the compliance is very high and your resource rights/war reparations would have expired, annexing can be better. But as an overall rule I believe puppets offer more value.
Still, this game can be successfully played in many different ways, every approach has its own advantages, so there is really no wrong way of playing it!