Why SA2B's cutscenes suck - Sonic Adventure 2
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- čas přidán 15. 08. 2018
- 15/05/19 EDIT: Stop bugging me about not using a mic. This isn't a podcast and if you absolutely need a voiceover you probably aren't paying attention to the video to begin with. I might try it out one day but not while I keep having to remove rude comments :[
Big cutscene comparison vid! I've always hated how SA2's ports screw up a lot of the cutscenes. Of course it's miles better than SADX, but it's still enough to throw me off in certain scenes, as well as confuse some plot points.
Usually I use 2x res (1280x960) to record but I had to use 1x for this because my computer doesn't have a good time recording in certain cutscenes (and 2x looked bad in my Dolphin anyway)
Transparency:
dreamcastify.unreliable.netwo... - Hry
![[柴犬ASMR]曼玉Manyu&小白Bai 毛发护理Spa asmr](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0TsXQ7z2Dh4/mqdefault.jpg)
An ironic lack of Shadow.
Sayonara, Shadow the Calculated
@@dayvie9517 ?? (Calculated)
The ultimate character design
The ultimate life form, Shadow, has the ultimate design
The wit of this comment deserves a double thumbs up xD
The ear twitch for indication that Sonic HEARD Shadow before seeing him is such a good detail I wish they kept in.
Knuckles isn't as angry because they layered his anger behind his model, obviously.
I think that's how it works..
Knuckles is trying to bury his feelings deep down but it's too much.
Welp obviously everyone didn't know that. Lol
"Less Angry Knuckles"
"Crossed Eyed Amy"
Please, let these turn into memes.
@@ChiefMedicPururu 17:17
Bright amy
I don't know which is more cursed. Amy's pupils being THAT close to each other or Knuckles with his unclosed fists making me wonder how long his fingers underneath those gloves are.
I grew up on the GC versions so watching the DC version cutscenes is like a whole new experience to me
Same here!
I had both as a kid, had the dc version first tho lol
damien cromwell Lucky you, I would have begged for that as a kid haha
l wasn't lucky lol, I was like 6 at the time and remember asking my mom for it and she would it too expensive. got it for Christmas. played sa1 on dc too, it still had the classic vibe but you couldn't skip the cutscenes in dc
Literally same
DC knuckles: I AM SO MAD AT DAT BAT
GC knuckles:can i have it back pretty please
DC Knuckles: GIVE ME BACK THAT MASTER EMERALD RIGHT FRICKING NOW!!!!
GCN Knuckles: plz gimme it I want it back plz
Shaggy Rogers 666 likds
DC: LISTEN HERE YOU PIECE OF SHIT.
GC: c'mon can you give it back to me plz :'(
DC: GIMME THE EMERALD BACK YA BAT BITCH!
GC: Hey bro, just give me the emerald back to me, okay? I don't want to have any trouble with you.
They wanted GC Knuckles to say "Can I have it back pretty please" because Nintendo is known for kid-friendly games, and the fact that the development team had practically no choice. Because Nintendo has kid-friendly games, they didn't want to make GC Knuckles too mean, and not prevent any relations to bullying. Why? Because many countries around the world, including the United States had an anti-bullying policy at the exact time. On top of that, the Gamecube had more units than the Dreamcast, thus it explains why these changes occurred.
"Doctor, I'm in the background of their cutscene! What should we do?"
"We? _We?_ Don't drag me into this! I have nothing to do with Sky Rail! That's _your_ stage!"
oh ok.
“Doctor, I’m trying to hide from the cutscene but I’m dummy thicc and the clap of my ass cheeks keeps alerting Sonic and Tails.”
@@unicronagent13 hol up
"Doctor, did you pissed on da moon?"
That music. It sounds like...PUMPKIN HILL! Do do. D-d-d-d-d-d-d-d do do!
From what I understand, the main issue with the lighting was with how the engine was ported to the Gamecube. As the game utilized many effects exclusive to the Dreamcast's hardware which caused difficulty when porting.
The DC could apply transparency in an arbitrary order, you didn't need to layer it at all. This was a considerable help in development, so Sonic Team plastered transparency literally everywhere. When brought to GC, a console that didn't have order independent transparency support (in fact no system including PC until DX11 became the API norm), they would have had to apply order to literally every transparency affect in both games. You can imagine how this would have been an issue with SA2B's stupid short dev time, but it was even more of an issue in SADX. Despite a longer dev time, just looks like ass next to the DC release
*Dreamcast
@@xXKaizoHarinezumiXx Fixed it :)
@@genderender Then the port to PC the devs were probably with even less money and time to develop.
Dreamcast were way ahead of Gamecube
Wow... This really gives an insightful glimpse into how a simple port job isn't a simple port job.
Not really.
this were an ~enhanced version. a straight port wouldn't take much effort to do if you know what you're doing. it'd just be fixing the implementation of the hardware to be like the old hardware. those old texture glitches going on messing up the lighting and stuff. but yeah they did implement a lot of good updates to the port, but also ruined the animation and lighting, colors, etc.
I have a feeling that this isn't a good example of a port being a hard process because if DLC ENERGY is right, then maybe Sega intended it to look worse or they didn't really try but it would be interesting to know why this port looks worse. They also could've had more time if they didn't change that cutscene with Rouge. (6-3-2020)
I’ve gotta agree on every level. There seriously should be mods that add back the lighting and transparency. Don’t know why there still aren’t any.
ElectroNuke Mods Probably the same reason with SADX, people not knowing that these differences even exist and the most likely, the lack of tools and the know how of how SA2 PC works
Well, the DC lighting has been applied to SADX, as well as nearly everything aside from fixing some scripted features and transparency issues, so I’m just surprised that there’s been just about nothing made for SA2B.
ElectroNuke Mods the reason why there's have barely been anything is just lack of tools and documentation, plus sa2 isn't easy to mod.
We recently got the sadx Dreamcast conversion, but you have to remember that the pc version came out in 2004, it took them 14 years of slow progress to finally fix most of the pc version problem.
Ah, got it. They’ve figured a lot of stuff out, though, that was deemed impossible earlier on. Hopefully they’ll crack the code eventually.
I think the guys working on the Dreamcast conversion mod are aware of the changes to Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, but they don't care about the game to bother with it, as they're focused more on SA1. I've seen some comments on Reddit and Steam and when someone asked about a "BetterSA2" or a DC conversion mod for it, the answer was always a lack of interest.
Modding it is not an impossibility, but it requires some interest from people in order to get there and so far, there is no one who cares enough about it, it's also worth noting that SA2 on PC is pretty dodgy as it's prone to start-up crashes, but I think restoring the Dreamcast lighting would be less of a hassle than that of SA1 as SA1's lighting was way more complex than SA2's.
Also I'm pretty sure the Dreamcast conversion mod wasn't in development for 14 years. The game did came out in 2004 but that doesn't mean they started working on it since then.
The dream cast was a pretty damn impressive piece of hardware
Sad there was no more Sega consoles after Dream Cast. I remember crazy taxi being a funny game on DC.
Thing is, if Sega still continued to make consoles to this day, it'll be hard to choose what console to buy. Imagine Sonic Frontiers or Sonic Heroes being on Exclusive Sega consoles.
This video was *WAY* more educational and entertaining than I anticipated.
I love how thorough and meticulous you were.
3:28
"Wow, he's healthy!"
LMAO
japanese version with english subs is fun
It might have been an edit, like at 11:00. Either way, still funny.
Windii I know that -_-
I just find it funny...
19:00
Stellar Axl She was talking about The7SuperStars' comment.
13:34 “It has the same wavelength and properties, but is less powerful and less transparent than the real one.”
what an underrated comment
Eggman:"You thought you could trick me with that fake transparency, didn't you!?"
@@lpfan4491 Tails: *something something*
Sonic, loudly and over Tails's dialogue because its SA2: TAILS!!!!!
I see that Knuckles has been going through therapy and managing his anger. Love to see the progress.
Shadows were removed from the game because it was a foreshadowing of Shadows death at the end of the game.
Seriously though, they were likely removed to increase fps.
From what I understand the way they're rendering was changed. They made for more accurate to area shadows for characters from what Ive read in the comments but ruin a lot of the other stuff going on with the shadows. Plus I doubt its an PS issue considering the original game was dream cast and the port's on the gamecube, one of the strongest systems of the generation.
but what about pc?
there too
: c
Not worth it
I did not mean that
Dreamcast has low-impact precise geometric shadows in hardware, the game was originally designed with them in mind. The system is well capable with dealing with a lot of shadow volume, but a lot of finely tesselated shadow geometry would bog the performance down, so characters used blob shadows.
Gamecube has no hardware shadow capability. What most games do, is just character silhouette rendered to an off-screen image and projecting that image onto the bits of environment where the shadow might fall; another solution that was used in Luigi's Mansion and Rogue Leader was by rendering a depth image (8-bit, or 256 depth levels) and using a hardware compare function to select the shadowed bits, but this is very low precision and finicky. There's a third way by using target alpha as a stencil buffer to imitate what Dreamcast was doing, but it would eat into performance really quickly if you did a lot of shadow volume. So they pretty much had to give up on cutscene environment shadows, as they weren't going to redesign everything to add new markup, precomputed shadows etc.
Gamecube's character shadows (projected texture) would have been possible on Dreamcast, but nobody had done that at the time the game was developed, so it likely didn't cross their mind. You can always recognise a projected texture shadow by standing near a vertical wall (not all, just those that were accidentally marked as potential shadow receivers) slightly clipping into it and seeing the shadow pop into existence on a vertical surface extending both down and up from the character. :)
Wow, I didn't realize there was so many issues with the cutscenes beyond the upgrade lighting problem. It would be nice to see a mod or something that fixes a lot of these issues, while still keeping the improvements of Battle.
@@ChiefMedicPururu
Where
@@ChiefMedicPururu
O
When you've grown with the battle ports the darker models become second nature to you. To me (and pretty much everyone who grew up on the ports) it's strange seeing the proper models in cutscenes. Especially ones like Angrier Knuckles.
Yeah I grew up with the GC port and playing through the original DC version was like playing the game for the first time again.
Likewise, it's really jarring to see how underwhelming the GC version looks having only played the original version. Good lighting is way more important than a higher polycount, even without all the other problems. Bad lighting makes everything look so flat and dull. I really hope we eventually get a good visual update to the Adventure games.
honestly I am impressed by how vibrant everyone looks in the dreamcast version
Facts asf. I've never even seen original sa2 before until this video
LukeMM95 i miss the old years...
‘Ya damn right Knuckles’
"I know Eggman secret station is here somewhere. All we gotta do is find it!"
Not until I've watched this video did I ever know there was a slight swear in the Death Chamber song. TIL...
19:01 I dont remember Shadow saying that in the GameCube version XD
Same o_O
European version I guess lol.
it's probably a joke
He doesn't in the English version, swearing is present in the Japanese version for some reason and was also included in the SonicX cartoon in Japan where sonic would constantly say "shit" even on cream's presence.
He doesn't say it
1:33 "i asked for this"
*I never asked for this*
lmfao
Grew up with the GC port, but recently bought a Dreamcast and both adventure games. It's like an entirely new experience
Danni【dream】 How's not being able to skip the cutscenes in SA1 been?
Luckily, I still find them hilarious so it hasn't been so bad
Reverof Enola why would you skip the cutscenes
trapez77 Why wouldn't you? I've played the game about a hundred times so it isn't really too fun watching those scenes as much. It also doesn't help that SA1 sort of repeats the same cutscenes albeit with minor diagolue change. Like watching Chaos 2 change into Chaos 4 from 3 different perspectives. I just wanna play the game and not watch cutscenes I've seen so many times already.
I think I'll always love watching the adventure cutscenes, even if I've seen 'em a billion times
Fun fact: The cutscenes were mocapped by the team that made the NBA 2K games, Visual Concepts. I was weirded out by that when I found that out.
Yeah, i thought they'd use real hedgehogs. What were they thinking
Sega sold them to Take-Two for 32 million and now look at them. Crazy lol
Take-Two is very greedy and introduced lootboxes and microtransactions in the NBA 2K games which already cost $60 to play in the fist place.
They also DMCA'd the re3 source port of the 3D GTA games (they went back, thankfully) and is responsible for being one of the companies to ruin Duke Nukem. They wouldn't release the superior 2001 prototype of Duke Nukem Forever unless they do a collection, and that 2001 prototype of Duke Nukem Forever is probably much more polished and better than the final released DNF.
Sega should have kept Visual Concepts and NBA 2K, they would also have more money for making good Sonic games, and the NBA 2K games would not be ruined by greed.
We could even have Sonic characters in the NBA 2K games as weird crossover cameos.
honestly wtf were they even thinking using mocap for highly stylised cartoon characters. makes everyone look like sonic fans in costumes for a good chunk of the franchise’s cutscenes
@@HydraSpectre1138 No
Me: Wow! That's a lot of improvements!
SPEEPS: Let's move on to everything else now!
Me: Checks time in video
_6:11__ / __22:16_
Me: *_O H N O_*
I..... I've known and loved this game all my life, yet I was never aware Amy was supposed to have teeth at all, and just assumed she was intended to look like that.. (I played only the port)
Also the shading on the Dreamcast version looks gorgeous!! How do you screw up this bad?? At least the base game and Chao system are intact, but jeez..
Amy's mouth always grossed me out in the GC version, and I grew up with that one. The lack of teeth was unsettling to me.
It was likely a case of 'good enough'. Obviously porting a game to a completely different architecture can cause some anomalies due to the hardware being different, which can break a few things.
Still, judging by the comments i've seen, most people didn't even know there was a difference in the cutscenes. Tbf, things like lighting and texture differences were much more noticeable in SA1 and SA1DX but SA2B did its just well - a locked 60fps port for the GC with more than enough extra features. Obviously SA2 was 60fps on DC as well (except mp) but it did suffer frame rate drops.
I prefer to play the games on the DC though, even if the GC ports perform better simply because the games were designed to be experienced with the Dreamcast.
Now that I know about these differences, I might see about finding a DC and both Sonic games. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about the DC library to justify buying the system for two games.
CherrySoda I think you’re overreacting.
Chops McCartney You found the lack of teeth unsettling? Then Sonic's model from SA1 must have been very comforting!
"Doctor, I'm in the background of their cutscene. What should we do?"
OMFG XD
In all seriousness though, I never have much interest in the graphics in games and I miss the details as a result; so it is interesting to see all the stuff people have found.
"Doctor, I'm in the background of their cutscene. What should we do?"
"Move Back To The Dreamcast Version Shadow!"
"Shadow what are you doing? Hurry up and get back into the Dreamcast right now before the GameCube blows up with you on it!
@@jordanboyd5587
"Blows up?!"
Unlike most people, I grew up with the Dreamcast version :o
I had both games on the dreamcast
That's cool!
Late but same here
Ditto
Eggman: WHY AM I MOVING LIKE THIS? IM LIKE A PUPPET ON A STRING!
I PUT THE THING, THEN I PULL IT OUT AND THEN RRRRRRRGH PULL IT OUT AGAIN, AND THEN I LOOK AT YOU AND I'M LIKE GHOOOOOO
@@shooshoobob1 shut up shut up.ShutUp!SHUT UP SHUTUP!!!! Rouge:No one was talking to you
@@CTOACN Obama is a strong figure to the America-I would never say such a thing!
@@shooshoobob1 why does tails have the WEED? Why is my body doing this thing!?
Back when Battle just came out, even as a dumb kid I had this feeling that the original SA2 was better than SA2B. I guess this why I always felt something was off about the port. Thanks for taking the time to do such an in-depth comparison, I feel justified in my childhood snobbishness now.
I had SA2 on DC, but the disc ended up breaking unfortunately. So smart me thought "hey I'll get my parents to get the GC one cause that's the system I like now", but even as a 6-7 year old something always felt off to me
Uh, sort of. The thing is that while cutscenes are better by technicality (even then, it’s only minor stuff you really wouldn’t care about mostly), the Multiplayer is by far better in Battle. More stages. The frame rate wasn’t cut in half. And you don’t need to collect emblems.
The game still has one of my favorite soundtracks
I think I've watched this video 3 times. Somehow I just keep getting back to it. It's just so well made.
Rewatching this video I can confirm one change not mentioned in this video that probably wasn't really relevant but still a fitting improvement the Gamecube version did make. The cutscene before Final Chase in the Dark Story had Fly in the Freedom playing through the whole cutscene in the Dreamcast version, while the Gamecube version onwards had the music stop completely for tension as Rouge revealed what the Biolizard looked like to Shadow and starting up Throw It All Away after she finishes her line of "Just who or what is standing in front of me?" Which plays for the rest of the cutscene. Personally I prefer that change since it fits what's going on in the moment a lot better than the original Dreamcast version did.
It's actually the one improvement that the cutscene overhaul-mod erased too. So I assume it is more on the "made worse"-side here for some reason, but too subjective to really include. Otherwise, I can't really see how one can miss it twice.
@@lpfan4491 Last time I played Sonic Adventure 2 with the Cutscene Revamp mod it played the scene like the Gamecube version, so I'll have to check. I think it had an option to switch between the versions of that specific cutscene like the Hero Side's intro cutscene playing the Dreamcast Original Angles with the Trial Shoes or the Gamecube's Pan the Camera down to the city angle
@@lpfan4491 Yeah I checked to be sure, the Cutscene Revamp mod kept the music of the scene the same as the Gamecube version
@@keybladeoverlord That's strange. I have it like on the DC there.
And there can't even be anything in the loader that overwrites the music-selection in the scene because I myself overwrote Rouge's theme with a poorly edited track myself to bandage the issue.
You know one thing Sonic Team didn't bother to fix at all? The Spanish subtitles.
These subtitles are OK for the mayority of the game EXCEPT on the last story. They come out late to the scene (or don't come out at all), and the "traduction" is really weird. Words like "Tú" and "Está" get in the subs as "TEpuedes" and "EstEvivo". But nothing compares to the last cutscene of the game where both of these problems shine more than the goddamn sun.
Todavía no lo han arreglado en la versión PS3. Estaba tan confundido cuando lo jugué y los subtítulos aparecieron tarde.
The french subs are worse
informative! i grew up with the SA2B port. i always thought tails's fur looked like it was dirty in the cutscenes and wondered why. now seeing all the lighting differences it makes a lot more sense.
You know what, it is oddly stupefying the quantity of unanswered interrogation of my past you're resolving in one video. I ever knew only the gamecube version as a child, and I could tell something was wrong, especially in the shadow & sonic introductory scene, and the layering issue is literally everywhere. AND THE RED LIGHT 15:42 ALWAYS TRIGGERED ME DAMN
This game definitely deserves the Dreamcast Conversion treatment like SADX got! I'd love to see all these issues fixed in the PC port of the game.
18:47 Sonic is also wearing normal shoes (not Soap)
Yeah I noticed that while using free cam with this game in dolphin emulator
I like that there's no voice, very well made and insightful video thank you
SA2B: Gah, things are too dark!
SADX: TOO BRIGHT AND SHINY!!!
19:04
Shadow: oh shit!!! The earth is gone
10:57 Pft-
Especially with the additional text-edited cutscene, that really made me laugh. Lovin' that we finally get this comparison video, too.
I loved playing this game when I was younger but the cutscenes always had me baffled due to the quality. Years later I'm learning why. Mostly lighting and transparency issues. Great video.
*Sees what the GC did to Amy*
That’s it I’m buying the original.
You forgot audio changes
Sound mixing gets worse with every port made
Also missing environmental sound effects, like how SADX removed them compared to DC
and this awful double jump bug. every now and then, the A button registers as double press and lead to cheap deaths.
And the characters constantly talking over eachother, or being unable to hear them cause the music is too loud. I adore this game, it's both ironically and unironically one of my favorites. Such a goofy, cheesy game that's soo much fun. Good times.
@@MeatEatingVegan777 That was in the Dreamcast version too. It's not a fault of this version.
the double jump bug only exists when playing in 50Hz due to the way Sonic Team handled 50Hz speedup (in which they literally used the same method they used on the Mega Drive to speed the music up)
@Paul Bell Are the music and soundeffects louder than in the ports? Because if not, then it doesn't.
One thing that ALWAYS irritates me every single time I play the Hero's Story mode in Battle is the cutscene where Sonic first meets Shadow after the Big Foot fight. The game always had problems with voice clipping but the GC version added a new one as the GUN army surrounds Sonic and order him to put his hands in the air. They finish their line in the DC version but in the GC version they get cut off before they finish by Sonic's next line. After playing the DC version for so long little things like that stick out really hard.
Killaman16 even in the HD version they get cut off.
Yeah he gets cut off while talking and you can’t hear him because of the loud sirens lmao. Still, thank god for the GC port the gameplay was a lot smoother.
I think it's because the framerate tanks on DC when the camera zooms out and shows all the soldiers on screen. And without frameskip, this means noticeable slowdown.
The GameCube (PS3, PC, etc.) doesn't struggle with this, so the camera zooms out more quickly, triggering Sonic's response too soon.
"Stay right where you are! Put your hands up, "
"Not again!"
1:34 Is it weird that I kinda would love to see Sonic make more expressions like this in current Sonic games?
No.
3:30 on the left... *"Wow he's healthy!"*
How come we haven't had someone make a patch to fix most, if not all of these issues for the PC release?
I hope this video blows up so that many sonic fans can see that the version most people play has major lighting issues that weren't there in the DC release.
Windows U Would be possible, like Better SADX, which is amazing. The problem is SA2 is a boring game, worst than SA1, its not graphical fixes will make the game better. Also, SADX from 2004 and Steam had terribles that needed fixes, SA2 HD from 2012 already performs really good even on old hardware, no need patches for fixing cutscenes most people skip of don't cared rewatching.
Matheusfpolis1 that’s your opinion m8, not everyone skips those cutscenes, even upon replaying. I personally love SA2 and remastered cutscenes with the old lighting would make me wanna play it again even more, just like when I replayed Sonic Adventure with bettersadx
Matheusfpolis1 yeah no one at all shares your opinion your stupid nintendrone.
ุ ุ Ew, guess SA2 fanboys get really salt when someone don't praise "the best Sonic game". What it, i never insulted anyone here, i only stated reasons why there's no such thing as BetterSA2, giving how passionate the community is and much this game is loved.
There's "nothing" to be fixed, the 2012 port already plays well and has everything with the Battle DLC. SA1 on other had bad PC port on 2004 and terrible for Steam, it needed fixes mora than SA2HD, which already is the definitive version of SA2.
Neat, you state your opinion as fact, and then get offended when people tell you that your opinion isn't fact
I never knew in the intro sonic was trying to do the adventure 1 pose.
I feel like gamecube can and can't do certain shadows of reflections
I always thought that knuckles look way darker because they just wanted him to be black, with all the rap music. Understand now that I was kind of racist.
Underrated comment.
They wanted to give Knuckles blackface.
@@jordanboyd5587 LMAO
What are you talking about, racist how
Can we talk for a second about the amount of work this man did? Amazing quality job!
BetterSA2B when?
Pizza the Hedgehog ikr
Just have the SA2B gameplay and all that with dreamcast's cutscenes and somehow gamecube good cutscene edits too (like the shoe errors and 60 fps)
I kinda made a port of a lot of stuff from the Dreamcast version BUT the game needs more reverse engineering (from both the Dreamcast and Gamecube/HD end)
Bettersadx just converts the game to the 2004 pc port, no point for bettersa2b
@@d2rk__ that, and restores the DC look.
I cannot wait for SA2 hacking to be expanded. Seriously, we still cannot rip the models or the stages at this point, what the hell?
RarefoilB And this game has been out for well over a decade? The heck?
Michael Phillips | Last I heard in these parts the .ninja format models the game uses are still untouchable. (shrug)
Michael Phillips those are rips made using a DirectX ripper, the actual ninja chunk format the models are stored in seems to be inconvertible so far due to a lack of understanding, and from what I’ve read, outdated tools, the people doing it don’t have new enough development programs that use the ninja chunk format just outdated ones that don’t work with SA2’s ninja chunk format.
Actually, MainMemory is testing to see if porting levels is possible and on GameBanana, there's a mod where one user and his group are porting the Dreamcast models of the characters.
Custom levels pleaseeee
Your cutscene overhaul combined with this game's retranslated mod is like the difference between Sonic X and the 4Kids version of Sonic X. Fantastic job fixing so much of this, man!
(edit: i have since come to understand how it ended up like this)
It's so weird. Obviously the people behind this port did check the cutscenes, because of all the stuff they actually improved. So why did they not catch most of these issues? Why did they intentionally make the scene with Rouge at the ARK's computer not make any sense? Why couldn't they keep the Earth consistent? How were the lighting changes not applied to the Hero version of the scene where Sonic and Shadow meet? And... THAT thing at 17:19 is... ugh.
None of this makes any sense. I understand that porting a game to hardware it wasn't made for is a very complicated process, but this still feels very incompetent. Even the damn LOGO was messed up.
If I were to guess, one guy was doing things right, and the other guy was just phoning it in, so mixed results happen.
They probably had duplicate files for everything: a bunch of different earth models (one for each environment it shows up in), separate lighting files for the Hero version of the cutscenes, etc. It potentially makes it easier to get the game done on time, but also leaves it in a messy state, preventing proper upgrades or changes later on.
This was a major problem in the first game, and it makes modding a pain, not to mention that it led to mistakes in the DX versions. It's kind of ridiculous, really: separate copy of Mystic Ruins for the boss fight, separate Chao model for cutscenes, separate model for Amy when ZERO is carrying her, separate copy of Robotnik's model for when he's in his Eggmobile... and when he's in his Eggmobile during a cutscene... and when he's in the Walker... and when he's in the Viper...
Prolly like other typical games of the era SA and SA2 are model dupe heavy games so it isn't just adjusting one asset to the diferent hardware but every invididual dupe hence you get this mess
Better than the SADX at least I can see the devs did the best they could in the short timeframe and the transparency issues come from the original game taking advantage of a pro of DC hardware that isn't on the GC and they had trouble figuring out a way to adjust it to work properly in the GC
So let's say, hypothetically. is it possible for SA2's PC port to use the recreated Lantern Engine by SonicFreak94?
Pretty sure SA2 never used that system.
Yes, but it can't be modded in? I'm sure the modders have gotten that far at least.
I don't think so, since SA2's lighting was way more simpler than the Latern Engine from SA1.
In a way it would be possible for SA2 to have the latern engine lighting but it would require work from scratch and it might be more of a hassle than the one for SA1, since for SA1 it's a recreation of something that existed in the game once but SA2 never had that and it would be more like implementing something new.
SF94's mod had information from a ton of sources. The Dreamcast and PC games, obviously, but also things like SADX Preview, a beta demo disc the consumers were never even supposed to have. Like TheSmashbros said, it's something that never existed within *any* version of the game, so recreating it from scratch would be so much more work for something that's not even necessarily going to net a proper result within the lifespans of the people doing the work.
Now, restoring the *original game's lighting*, that's a much more reasonable task, but I hope we can get rid of the "well just mod it!" mindset that minimizes what it actually takes just to get these ports looking as good as the originals did 20 years ago, let alone better.
Yes its possible but you'd have to fine a modder willing and skilled enough to do that.
I crack up every time "Less Angry Knuckles" shows up. I agree that it's a downgrade, but there's a deep visceral reaction I get from seeing it presented this way.
Thanks for this comprehensive video, it's kinda hard otherwise to find a comparison that says WHY the lighting was better in DC.
Is this grounds for a BetterSA2B? I'm still floored by BetterSADX.
Are you really THAT dumb to not understand that BetterSADX just CONVERT the steam version to the 2004 version to actually be modded?
SA2 PC already can be modded
@@RackerTheRascalMashup Well that's just a lie isn't it?
@@sedef122003 no
The Steam Version Can't be modded without the Bettersadx converter
Great video as always! :D
I've played the DC version when I was younger but my console died, so I had to adapt to SA2B. I still prefer the original version, but it's easier to get used to SA2B than it is to SADX (what a disastrous port)!
every time I hear "You're damn right, Knuckles" it makes me laugh
I grew up with the DC version and something about it made it feel so epic back then. I can honestly say that all of those little details really have a huge impact on the experience and without them it feels like a shell of it's former self.
This video: [shows the problems with cutscenes in SA2B]
Mods: We have arrived to fix your problems,
10:54 - 11:04
That was hilarious. You are my hero... er, dark? Either one.
Indeed. Great execution of the joke.
Gamecube
17:51 Tails looks like he’s on drugs
I guess I’m the first one here from Cyber’s return.... everyone, the day has finally come.
Maybe not the best place to put this, but I just found this channel today and wow, I did not know of all the online stuff Sonic was doing back in the 1990s! There is so much details and secrets in just the two Sonic Adventure games alone and I am impressed with all you have found and recorded!
This video makes me realise how important are native formats and specific designed stuff. Both Sonic adventure games's codes were made just for Dreamcast and they both should have been amazing at their time, nowadays compared to their remakes still seems to rivalry a powerful Gamecube and a PC port. The HD tag for me is a overestimated concept. What is the point of a wide screen sharper pixel if it loose that "character" given by visual effects. In gamecube I loved Lost Colony due to it's truly dark area and Eggwalker's light bulb that actually was a light spot near objects, in "HD" port is not by near as dark and there is no ligth bulb effect, so fuck off the ambience..
I have to say, thank you for making a 4:3 video for a 4:3 game instead of having black borders on the side or gods forbid stretching.
DC: super shadow isn't yellow
GC: He's yellow take it or leave it!
thanks for the in depth look at the comparison difference between the two releases, this was awesome to watch!
I grew up with the dreamcast version so all this is amazing. I wish there was a narrator though
Why?
@@HOTD108_ is it me or this comment feels corrupted
Why do I feel that this type of stuff is the reason the modern games use prerendered video files for nearly every cutscene?
Actually visual differences are almost impossible between consoles nowadays unless they are deliberate, as the hardware architecture is fundamentally the same, while Dreamcast and Gamecube could hardly be more different from each other. However there is a matter of performance fine-tuning and optimisation that developers gladly skip and save the money on. Another matter is that you can't just load 200MB of data in a couple seconds, so prerendered cutscenes cut down on loading times. Third reason is that you can continue to load the level while a video is playing - it is slightly inefficient, but people tend to complain about loading screens, don't they, which is also why unskippable cutscenes are a thing. It also frees up cutscene direction from constraint of being unable to cut between action that happens a significant distance apart.
@@SianaGearz also strorage space
@@kuklama0706 Prerendered cutscenes (rendered in-engine but on a workstation and encoded as video) were already a trend on Xbox 360 which was seriously strapped for disc space, having only 9GB and the same as Playstation 2 and original Xbox, while earlier consoles had the benefit of lower resolution.
@@kuklama0706 ik ur comment is a year old but it's storage
Im here just for the kick ass tunes. Freaking SA series had beautiful music!
I'd played only the Dreamcast version till later on when a friend got Battle. I'm so glad I'm not the only one who's noticed the differences! Very informative and affirming to my younger teenage self, keep up the good work!
We deserve a remake with 2018 graphics and everything fixed.
sonic4380 i would buy tht real quick
Who wouldn´t?
upvoted this shit
That would be hype.
Of course it would be!!
17:05 Mmm, nope. He's right there. On the left. In both versions. :^)
*H A*
*H A*
*H A*
I’m an older fan since the genesis so the DC version was of course the first I played. The GC port always seemed off to me. Thanks for this very informative vid!
17:50
How the hell does lighting make a yellow look orange-red?
That literally looks like somebody recreated classic tails with the orange fur color he originally had
I like the format of this video, if it helps. I laughed my ass off when you cut to the sky rail music when the model showed up. I feel like it wouldn't nearly have been as funny if this video had commentary.
I’ve been on twitter and I’ve seen that apparently people are starting to mod SA2 and Heroes all of a sudden. It’s my hope that one day we’ll get a “BetterSA2B” mod and overall all those mods we see for SADX will get their own SA2B versions because the modding scene for SA2 is severely lacking compared to the support for SA2B. I get why, SADX really sucked compared to the original, but still y’know?
Bettersadx just converts the Steam Version into the 2004 to actually be modded
Wait, Heroes has a hacking community? Now I want someone to make Team Archie.
Heroes too? Great! I want someone to fix the fucking hit animation of speed characters of the PC port because it's none existant (it's actually the fall animation and only makes the character move up and not backwards). It can make the battles with other teams a nightmare. Believe me, I grew up with the PC port
Phenomenol video as always! My favourite part is always when you give the characters dialogue in the cutscenes like"oh shit!"
11:00 "Doctor, I'm in the background of their cutscene, what should we do?"
Alright, this both surprised and amused me and I love it.
Now i regret having no dreamcast. I only had SA2B GC and the X360 version.
If you want the true experience when playing the Adventure games you need a Dreamcast. And if you play with VGA, it will look just as good, if not better than the HD ports.
Dark Drago yeah i can only use amazon since it doesn't need a credit card to be used. Austria amazon only wants bank info. So i am unable to get what you have.
The game plays better on the GC so don’t feel like you missed out. I had both and always noticed the differences but I don’t regret it because the game was heavily improved.
The Dreamcast controller has a slightly more precise analog stick making for better control.
Someone should work on a project to fix a lot of this in the PC version. Especially making characters more expressive like how they were in the DC version.
If we're talking SA2, the characters are more expressive in the GC version. That's not even up for debate. Really, the only thing the DC version had over the GC version was the lighting, the pacing of the cutscenes, and the audio mixing (though the audio mixing in the GC version isn't as bad as people suggest it is). Pretty much everything else was improved in the GC version. Thankfully you can have the best of both worlds with PC modding. We don't have a BetterSA2 mod like we do with SA1, but the PC version is the best way to have the optimal experience with SA2.
I got to say, the Dreamcast has some very gorgeous lighting. Like, between this and the original Sonic adventure, it's astonishing that they were able to do this in the late 90s
10:23
The music and the step was almost on point
7:08
-SONIC WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?
-I HEARD YOU'RE ON A QUEST FOR THE MASTER EMAWOLD.
-YOU KNOW ME AND YOU DON'T GET ALONG...
-I DON'T THINK THAT'S THE POINT RIGHT NOW, KNUCKLES;
I KNOW HOW MUCH THE EMAWOLD MEANS TO YOU
AND I WANNA' HELP GET IT BACK--STOP BEING STUBBORN AND THINK!
-WELL, I GUESS YOU'RE RIGHT...
-YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT, KNUCKLES.
I KNOW EGGMAN'S SECRET STATION IS HERE SOMEWHERE--
ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS FIND IT;
I KNOW WE'LL NEED A KEY TO GET INSIDE,
THAT'S OUR ONLY WAY TO FIND IT, SO LET'S GO!
Emerald*
i grew up with the gc version and its incredibly strange watching the cutscenes gets torn apart like holy frick
There were even more inconsistencies than I remembered, that 11:00 gave me chuckles xD Love these vids you make :) hope you keep it up.
I really love your videos I’ve always wanted to hear the secrets behind sonic games and the stages and cutscene stages please keep uploading I feel as though are more secrets we don’t even know yet
The cutscenes: Shit.
The Gameplay: Competent.
The Chao Garden: THE REASON I SPENT MONEY ON THIS.
Great video! Loved seeing things back to back😊
The sky rail bit got me. I love this channel.
Yikes. I knew the cutscenes in Battle were botched but I never knew it was this bad. I have the Gamecube and Dreamcast versions of this game and have always preferred the DC version, since for the most part I have always believed playing a game on the original system it was developed for instead of ports is the way to go.
Yeah, the most memorable moment of SA2B for me was when Shadow said "oh shit!!!"
Just got recommend this video and holy shit dude. Your content is superb! Subscribed and hit that bell icon.
This video is long overdue but thank you for being amazing and bringing this content to CZcams.
"Regular chaos emerald issues"
Going through their teenager phase.
"Honey, did you chaos control your room yet?"
"MOM! GET OUT OF MY ROOM! I'M CHAOS BLASTING!"