Aftermarket Wiring For Your Classic Mopar Is A Mistake (But It's Perfect For This Hemi Swap)
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- čas přidán 26. 05. 2023
- For the last week or more, I've been stuck in wiring hell trying to connect all of the modern systems in our 6.4 Hemi swap 1971 Dodge Challenger project to an aftermarket fuse box and wiring setup. This is truly a daunting task, requiring quite a bit of planning and thought to get right. Sure, it's just a few handfuls of wires... But we need them to work together to get power where it needs to go, and to do so reliably for many years to come. It has to be serviceable and easy to understand. It has to look kind of right, and it has to disappear in the car as if it was a factory engineered electrical system. Whoever came up with this setup assumed that anyone using it would be using a bunch of GM type electrical components, a decision which has complicated matters. What I'm trying to say is, while this is going to work out well in the long run, I'm currently just straight up not having a good time.
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
Considering you do many of these and probably will do many, many more, maybe you should build and prove the full harness and then pull the entire wiring system back out of the car and make a wiring template board... When I was 17, I worked at a company that built harnesses for alarms and medical components and much more. We had plywood boards with nails and rubber bands that made putting together complete harnesses very simple. Every branch had a list of wires and where each wire terminated. I'm telling you now, it made building huge harnesses very simple and STUPID PROOF!!! WELL WORTH IT!!!
Awesome. I really don’t do this *that* much, and every one of them is going to be different. It would make a lot of sense to have a length layout for the firewall, inner fender and dashboard. Then even when modifying a factory harness, it could be attached to that and additions would be easy. But, the stock harnesses come pre-shaped, and even the dash setup on this one came pre-tied with the various branches in place. I untied it section by section and maintained the same shape as I added and subtracted circuits, using the firewall and the kick panel area of the car as reference points. That’s a very interesting thought though. I will ponder how I could integrate something similar into my process.
Steve- the plywood wiring board method was used building the harnesses for new 18 wheelers for decades where I worked at.....until Daimler had them outsourced overseas.
As for damaged wiring connectors on newer harnesses- find the part #- go online- for what the dealership charges for one connector you can often buy 10-50 online, it's a massive markup.
As Mr. Stevens, my HS Electronics Teacher on wiring "Don't see the plate of spaghetti- it's just one noodle at a time".
Used a aftermarket 'Mopar' wiring harness on a early A-body 3 decades ago- yup, just GM stuff with really loooong wiring leads.
It's nice to see YT car guy finally call it like he sees it, because that's how it is. The only nice thing I can see from that kit is they left enough wire length, that you don't have to worry about not having enough.
Yt car guy ???
@richdetlaff-5983 my comment is missing an "a". It should say "a YT car guy"
You tube
Seen a few builds and restores letting the stink smoke out when a circuit is called on to pass a bit more current than designed for. You sir, are a renaissance man. Lots of people are great squeezing the last available power out of an engine, while others excel with wiring nightmares. You do both with aplomb. Always wanted to use that word…
I find your arrangement of vocabulary extraordinarily appealing, particularly in its complimentary nature and its thrust in my direction. In truth I do possess a modicum of talent in the realms of the mechanical and of the electrified noodles - although I might stop short of bestowing the title of renaissance man upon myself. In fact, a more appropriate and correct appraisal might be “a dirty hack with a camera.” 🙂 But I damn sure do these things with aplomb!
Thanks. Decades of stuttering like an MG with unbalanced carbs and wet ignition forced a large vocabulary on me 🤓Anyways, all I have said I mean. There’s no greater gift than provision of priceless advice and knowledge, with enjoyment and wit and humor stirred in. Many try, but I’ve found precious few able to do it.
Yep I got one of these kits. Seems good quality. Opened the box, poked at it a little. Put it back in the box. I think I'll do that later. Seems like a good winter project.
Your video came along just in time ,we were thinking of rewiring our sons 1971 Chrysler 300 . Not that over this side of the pond we have much choice,going to got to plan B just rewire what we need to ,
Thanks for sharing the reality of saving old Mopars. One of my pet peeves when I used to repair or help restore other people's cars was they did everything else first, mechanical, interior, suspension, THEN come around and have me get all the wiring working. The absolute worst was when the car was just painted ($$$$$!) and then they addressed the nasty wiring last. Ugggggg! Lastly, back when folks had lots of Mopars in the wrecking yards, I'd spend a day pulling good wiring harnesses out, especially the salvageable plastic connectors. I had the factory correct new terminals too in order to replace the corroded ones.
Nice. We’ve got some terminals and a healthy collection of replacement plastics for the single, double, and three pin connectors at Rocket. It makes projects like this a lot easier to do nicely.
Also a good thing to mention is that especially in the cheaper wiring kits, the wire they use is almost never as high quality as the factory wiring was when new. In most cases for a typical backyard DIY build, finding similar vehicles to chop good factory sections of harness out and fix what you got is usually the best option. For example let's say your building a 80s Chevy truck, then look around in junkyards for any 80s era gm cars or trucks for sections of good clean factory wiring then you can get the right color,size, and grade wiring for clean repairs and in some cases find good electrical plugs that sometimes are reproduced.
Agreed. I did mention specifically that I like the wire in this kit - it doesn’t feel horribly cheap - but it is definitely not the same as the factory stuff.
"I'm Fine" Too funny. Very nice work. Thanks for Sharing
😂 yep need a stiff drink or two, (or 3). I must admit you are very talented, & have a hell of a lot of patience! And take pride in your work. (Sign of a good craftsman & engineer) keep up the great work!
Thank you for your perspective, I needed to hear this before I dive into a 63 camper special I just acquired.
Great video , I wish it had been posted before I wired my 66 Belvedere 4 years ago lol the car had a cobbled together rats nest of factory and modern blade fuse style fuse panel when I bought it so I decided to redo it all with a universal kit . About 2 weeks later and elimination of a lot of extra connections I had it in and functional. Had to add separate relays for the headlights but everything seems to work and I didn’t burn the car down lol
I agree, the M&H harness is the way to go for most projects unless the wiring is totally custom. I did the Ron Francsis kit on a friends '69 Coronet that pretty much had no stock parts.
Complete custom dash and switches (except ignition and turn signal switch), EFI, Electric cooling fans, TCI 6X transmission, digi-tail tail lights, custom shifter, and other stuff.
It took several weekends to get it wired, and some engineering to get the variable/3-speed wiper motor to work with a 2-speed GM style wiper switch.
When using an after market wiring harness, it is just trading the known warts of an electrical system to a whole new super wart without any documentation. I feel for the next guy who spends a day looking for a short in a harness from a chafed wire in an inconvenient location that no one ever thought it would rub on the body some where.
Back in my farming and construction days I spent a considerable amount time in 70's Dodge trucks. Cheap,plentiful,realiable,easy to work on and great cross parts compatibility.
But those wiring harnesses....
A very informative video, Sir. You put me to shame. I got some mass of wires about three years ago. And have done nothing with it. I was in wait ,for some dollars. Anyway, times are better and I have to buy some professional crimping tools because I need to wire into plastic connectors. There is a channel that shows what to do. Finegan, even done it. I will read these comments. Your channel is a gem and wish one had looked before. Happy miles, you deserve them!
My 1970 Dodge Dart has a very dependable wiring system. It has had problems in the past. I originally purchased the car in the mid 1980s, still own and drive it. The engine compartment paint was really bad when I bought it, soon the reason why showed up. It had a runaway charging system. The alternator would occasionally go full tilt, super bright lights, ammeter pegged, not good. Finally when the battery ruptured and jetted hot acid everywhere I pulled the whole wiring harness out and layed it out on the floor of my shop. I unwrapped the whole thing, checked every wire and only had to make minor repairs. The whole problem was finally traced to a apparently normal headlight dimmer switch that occasionally internally shorted to ground. This full fielded the alternator causing its voltage and current flow to go full maximum. The wierd part was why the alternator field was tied to the dimmer switch.
I am having a hard time wrapping my head around that one. But hey, fixed is fixed, right? I definitely prefer to repair original wiring. That is my usual go-to. But if it’s total junk, a reproduction harness is the best solution.
The Ron Francis kit in my barracuda has the same problem. It's an open-ended GM harness with volumes of documents to adapt it to a Mopar. Bonus is that you get circuits for electric fans and fuel pump. It would be great if they offered a Mopar based universal kit as opposed to GM.
I’m using a American Autowire hwy22 for my 79 Ramcharger. I haven’t started installing it yet. Just finishing removal of the desert baked and butchered factory harness I’ve been repairing for 16 yrs. Two previous alarms, a winch and repairs from it being stolen and recovered did a number on it. But the 30 yrs in the desert has the insulation literally flaking off. Not looking forward to the wiring but I’ll get it done. Keeping as many connectors from the old harness as I can save, may call M&H for some connectors. Wish they made a harness for this truck.
I’ve had a carbed 360 magnum in it since 2011, NV4500/Dana300/80s part time axles since 2008. I may finally put the factory efi on it after this wiring is done.
Definitely will look at M&H for my 72 Duster.
Unfortunately I bought the American Autowire Update Kit recently before watching this video. It looked great on paper. When it is time to install it, I’m sure the GM connector on the steering column and other head scratching things will trip me up, but I guess I will have to get through it and do the best I can. Thank you for such terrific videos. They help me out immensely
I got moved onto other projects and actually still haven’t replaced the connectors on the column, or finished the light wiring. Honestly not looking forward to it, but that’s ok. I will work through it one bit at a time. Be methodical and do your best to plan out what you need for your specific build and accessories before you finish the wiring. Make it as tidy and sensible as possible. It’s far from the worst thing I’ve done, but was certainly very time consuming.
@@DeadDodgeGarage Roger that. Thank you!
Oh, love your work and videos. I'm trying to learn from you.
I have done 3 so far and I am working on 2 more right now. I like this kit it works amazing! Just take your time. I enjoy having everything work and having all my lights brighter than factory. No worries of my restoration catching fire.
In hindsight it really wasn’t that horrible. I have only done one of their kits, but I have done several scratch built wiring setups of a similar type. I don’t think it’s something everyone should attempt, but I could (and will) do another one.
I have used an american autowire kit on my 65 gto. My car, being in australia, it converted to right hand drive ,so the general layout of the harness was nowhere near factory anyway. Good points.. it is a good quality kit. Individually labelled wires, clear, easy to read diagrams. I liked that the wires were unterminated as it allowed me to run them were i wanted. Plenty of wire length. Modern fuse type and plenty of extra fuses.
The bad.. you really need to have the crimping tools they have on the website or its going to be painfull. The instrument custer harness was a complete scratch build. Including assembly of the bulb holders.. the horn didn,t work, after troubleshooting i found the supplied relay was dead, no big deal, ill just get another locally. Nope! That relay hasnt been used since the eighties! Why "update" from the 60,s to the 80,s?.
Overall still a good option for a non stock rebuild. Would use them again.
Right. It’s not that they aren’t quality parts - the wire and connectors are pretty nice stuff. I probably should have bought their tools… I’m using standard crimping tools and they don’t work that well.
Thank you for convincing me not to do what I was going to do! The M&H sounds like the best (read: least horrible) plan for me.
On swaps like this we normally just build the entire harness from scratch. I don't see much you get from a kit like this
Just rewired a 73 power wagon using a Ron Francis kit. Went fairly well considering I am not a wiring guy. A lot of splicing in to the existing Mopar connectors for signal switch, ign switch, ww motor, heater etc, but good fuse and relay panel once I found room to mount it. Time consuming, but worth it in the end.
Yeah the panel is huge. The ‘65 Barracuda I just did has a Ron Francis kit. Everything works great, but it sticks out like a sore thumb.
Great Ceasar's ghost! And I thought figuring out my taillight issues was shitty. For once I do not envy you my friend lol.
See, that’s more like the reaction I expected from most mechanically inclined types. Haha.
I have the same experience with my American auto wire kit for my Battacuda.
Just finishing up first wiring job with universal painless kit for 68 satellite. Its not that bad tbh but for sure takes time and definitely helps if you have original wiring diagrams and some connectors from original harness (mostly gauge circuitboard). Helps if you are closer to stock wiring/less circuits but you definitely have to make your own circuits too with relays etc as the universal kits are incomplete.
Atleast painless did have nice 120page manual that made the job easier, just take your time wire by wire. I probably would prefer universal kit as you can route it however you want instead paying big buck on model spesific harness that may or may not work how you like!
There is a case for them, for sure. I prefer factory stuff. I put a lot of work into this one trying to make it be more like factory stuff 😅 my friend put a Painless kit in his ‘53 Ford and wanted me to finish it up for him. I made lights and things work, but good lord it’s a terrible mess of spaghetti and things that he doesn’t even need. That says a lot more about him than it does Painless though. Haha.
Since I work only on basically stock cars, what I do is to collect good condition connectors when I can find any. Then I have rolls of matching color wire, and recreate factory looms for my cars on the bench. Obviously, that doesn't work for modified vehicles, or for those who believe the factory setup was inadequate.
At Rocket, we have a mountain of factory wiring for making repairs or adding optional circuits with original components. I’ve got a good stash at home as well. I have added aftermarket stuff to Mopars with all original wiring components.
I think that painted firewall looks the balls !
It looks great!
Jeez this is going to be fun on my satellite. 🙃
I feel your pain, the shop that I work at, put one of these kits in a 1952 Dodge Meadowbrook, only took 45 hours to make this mess work.
Terminator x is life, never had such a nice system to use and tune. Immediately miss my LS days watching this 😂
I haven’t yet! I’ve gotten my feet at least a little damp with the Sniper systems, and am looking forward to diving in on this.
@Dead Dodge Garage you'll absolutely love it. Tune wizard to start life, let it learn for a good few cycles and then just smooth areas you don't like and transfer back to handheld, upload, smile 💪
AWQESOME effort.....lol. i HAVE A 73 CHALLENGER I kept the factory wiring. You did it no..? MOPAR 4 EVER.
Thank you for the information.
Great vid
Yeah, I'm already confused by wiring so I always just spend the coin and get the M&H stock-style harnesses, then modify if/as necessary, such as AMP bypass, etc. If you keep your car as stock as possible, it's the best. In my case, I have a '73 body, but a '70 engine, so I just buy the correct harness for the body, then modify as necessary. (But I always try to use body-year engine parts on it such as water pump housing, etc.) Makes the wiring way easier when it comes to push-on versus plug-in temp gauges, or whatever it is (as a made-up example). As for those "painless" wiring kits, I heard of them, but never knew what they were. Name is definitely misleading.
Good video. Wiring is one of the most time consuming tasks there is regardless of skill. It is just time consuming.
Very informative!!! Love it. Good thing it's not 6 volt Positive ground system. That my friend would suck. I love the look of new fresh wires. Mmmm Spaghetti.
I’ve converted positive ground six volt to negative ground 12 volt a time or three. That’s always fun. Haha.
I bought one of those American Autowire universal kits for a 1964 chevelle I was resto-modding maybe 10 years ago. It took me almost a year (evenings and weekends) to wire up everything..... Never again.
Yeah. That’s the terrible future I imagine for most people who dive into this. I am really lucky to be able to understand it and get through it quickly, but that doesn’t seem to be the norm in hot rodding. Electrical seems to be voodoo, and the regular wrench turner needs to steer clear of this shit…
I did this for my 68 charger, almost no experience, hated every bit of it. Still changing and fixing things two years later... Mostly my own fault, but still haha. Traumatized
Agree completely
I learned! You can teach an old dog. Thanks
Pro told me, "wiring separates the mens from the boys" & scares the hell outta me....
I can't tell you how many times I've heard or said "I'm not a wiring guy" in my life. It's the bugaboo of many classic car enthusiasts. I had to repair some of the wiring in my power wagon just to get the gauges to kind of work and that was a pain in the yoo-hoo enough. I managed to fix things but it took some real patience and one smoky mistake and pulling the instrument panel off too many times to count. And yeah, I can kinda live with the fact that my fuel gauge is now a bit crooked but I don't give a shit. And that it's off by a only a quarter tank or so now but who cares?? But I think if I had to do a whole vehicle kit like this from scratch I would rather pull my hair out. One by one. Good luck Jamie. Thankfully there's a frosty cold one at the end of your journey. Cheers.
It's hard to BBQ spaghetti on the grill :-)
The auto wire kit is twelve times the amount as the cheap eBay 21 circuit kit. I bought them for the wires , which came out cheaper. I picked up a Ballengher Motorsport 48way bulkhead kit and the thing almost pops into the factory bulkhead hole . I’m building a daily driver so all the extra wiring will be used , especially power windows and power door locks will be added . Yeah , it’s a nightmare but if you sit and have a plan it’s not that bad . You just need to invest in proper connectors unless you are lucky and the main majority of them are still intact so it saves time ordering more parts .
Just takes time.
Plan plan plan .
Yep. That.
Holy Cow 🐄
I wasted 500$ on a Ron Francis wiring harness for my 67 B. What a pile of crap I tossed that, bought M&H.
Yeah… friend has a Ron Francis in his Barracuda. The box is huge and ugly and doesn’t fit under the dash. It works but it’s really not ideal to me.
How much and where can I get one of those rally clusters?
Is this not the Mopar specific American Autowire kit? I had previously heard nothing but good things about it.
I’ve got to rewire my ‘68 Coronet so I’m still doing homework on which route to go.
It is Mopar specific. It goes in place of the firewall connector. It’s made of good quality stuff. My real gripe is with the amount of work required to start with this and end up with a functional electrical system. No pre installed lighting connectors… it’s very far from a plug and go solution. It’s not intended to work with a factory Mopar ignition or charging system. For a build like this, it makes perfect sense. For the stuff I’m usually working on, this would be pointlessly annoying.
Yeah, kinda depends on the car and what shape the wiring is in. I rewired my W150 with a Kwikwire kit and don't regret it one bit. The factory wiring was a disaster.
I’m glad it worked out for you, and that you were able to deal with that. I have built multiple harnesses from kits just like that with fine results, but I absolutely, 100% hate it and think it’s a bad move for most people. Wiring is voodoo to the average car guy, and a mess of it that comes in a box and has to be assembled is bad news.
got one of them, glad to hear it is ok. well gone
Definitely a 30 pack type of job.😮
I feel your pain
I'm in the middle of this process for my Duster. I'm using a painless universal harness.
MOPAR Harness or no after market thanks .👍🏻🇦🇺💯⛽️
Yea that's a lot of work, where can I get a factory repo harness for a 73 dodge challenger?
The M&H harnesses are sold by Classic Industries. We bought a set for the ‘73 Charger we’re putting together at my place and will be installing them soon.
@@DeadDodgeGarage thanks.
Actually, wire functions are labeled every 3 to 5 inches, but I understand your beef with the connectors. American Autowire is GM oriented like Lectric Limited is too. Pictures of that $1100 harness are even the same on each site. Sure they support other brands, but not to the same degree
Yes, they are labeled - with a couple exceptions. Did I say they weren’t? I don’t remember discussing that.
@@DeadDodgeGarage At around 4:35, but you were referring to there not being a diagram that labels every single wire telling you where they go. I guess they expect you to make notes on the diagram yourself rather than them putting in the work.
Rivnuts for the relays?
That would’ve been nice. I used self drillers for the ones mounted to the cowl. I need to stock up on rivnuts for future builds.
@@DeadDodgeGarage looked like deep pockets - and of course Monday morning armchair quarterbacking is the easy part :)
Universal harness. Chrysler not included
The biggest issue is that once you get past the current owner, no one can actually diagnose any electrical problems.
Even worse than that - the owner might even never have a clue. It’s really down to the installer.
Jamie the guy from half past comes to them Brent he says that that's a manufacturer recommended way to install this honest you buy the software on Amazon and it's put so many of them in he can do it in a couple hours but they tell you you can install one in the weekend if you've never done 1 before well maybe my brother could that had a photographic memory and the intelligence of a doctor and an electronic background but not me and my brother is not here to reference to helping more cause hes sent fast and I'm male or female so I understand how most people feel why aren't anything It has a daunting task just both people don't understand it most people can't even read this comatic little loan make up for the part that's not there so I feel you paying brother trying to do this Trying to do this on my 86 Monte Carlo and my friend has been a mechanic for over 50 years said if you've ever bring the sun of a bitch back with this horn within it I refuse to work on it
As usual… I am very confused.
Lol feel the pain
The DDG school of how to wire Gooder.
And how to do other electrical stuff gooder too!!
My 2 cents on this which is really a buck and a quarter when it comes to this. So in the early days of 5.7 hemi swaps and digital gauges this was even more of a nightmare. 7 different ways to wire stuff in 7 different languages. I did the job and it was a week of labor and the guy was pissed at the labor bill. I ended up eating some so said never again. Being accused of not knowing what the f I was doing went over well with me too. I said fine you fffffffing do it. He no that's what I pay you for. Then pay me you whining brat. So I feel your pain and this is a pain like open heart surgery with nothing to num the pain😢 in the end your brain will be mush. Your patience gone and the customer upset at the bill. Or not if he has more money than God intended a man to have. Remember patience is a virtue. However I am not VirtueMart so pay me.😅 last in this rant is to quot meatloaf. I will do somethings but I won't do that. 😊
I feel lucky in that this is something I can handle. It ain’t easy, it ain’t fast… but to a degree, I really do enjoy wiring. It makes sense to me. But I’d prefer a good bit less spaghetti, ideally. I adapted the ‘67 Coronet convertible’s factory replacement harness to work with the Sniper, and we used a factory layover harness for the A/C conversion. Simple to attach the power window kit to the factory fuse panel. I prefer that method, generally speaking.
Yeah, make sure you always carried a ballast resistor voltage regulator in the electrical today is still horrible
Good ideas, but not necessarily what we’re talking about here. I mean this car doesn’t have either of those things anymore.
Less wires less fires
El trabajo se ve complicado Compa
Si, es muy complicado… pero un trabajo complicado es expensivo, y eso me gusta. Jaja.
Nice car. Call me old fashioned, but I prefer to see these cars with period correct engines and transmissions. I guess a 440 with a Holley 4150 and an A833 4-speed just wasn't going to be enough. To all of the guys cutting up old classics, I say, some day they'll have to be restored, so save the old parts, please. You want a hellcat, go to the dealer and drive one off the lot. Same goes for all the guys doing LS swaps in everything. Jeez!
I’m literally filming a video saying exactly that right now. I just said the words “if you want this, just remember, new Challengers exist…” So, needless to say, I’m right there with you.
Old car tech cries about new car wiring, film at 11!!
Seriously. He's right. If you got a stock setup, this is not the way to go!!! As in, you're crazy if you are even thinking of doing this. However, if you have an EFi or gen3 Hemi swap, this is totally the way to go. You just bite the bullet and take it head on.
Yep… exactly all that. Haha.
I know your pain. Or painless as the box implies
I purchased a Ron Francis wiring harness for my '71 Duster. If you have a basic knowledge of how electrical systems work it's not too bad. Just time consuming.
When you said "does this connector look familiar" I said "yup" to my screen. Because I'm a GM guy.
All I see is problems down the line an even more night mares 🤦🏼🙀😵💫.🇦🇺
Right. A lot of care has to be taken to make it simple, tidy, serviceable, and understandable by future generations. I will be leaving the owner notes explaining the various circuits. Hopefully that helps. If someone were to do this without doing all that… Yeah…
Remember (universal) means ( it doesn't fit anything)
Bingo!
I can see the problem from here.... too many wires.
Good video until I blew a cerebral fuse.
It’s a crap kit. Painless wiring is well, painless.
That has not been my experience… I’m finishing the install of a Painless kit in my friend Mike’s ‘53 Ford currently. It is no easier. It’s very similar, but even less organized out of the box. At least this has disconnects in the factory locations and the basic layout makes sense. Then again, this AAW kit was made to be a “universal” setup for this specific body style, while the Painless kit for the Ford was really a universal kit.
This is my life ...............
Ouch.