Simple Mixing HACK to AVOID ORANGE PEEL!
Vložit
- čas přidán 24. 08. 2024
- In this Episode I share a trick bodyshops have been using for years to lay down beautiful finishes!
🟢🟢CHECK OUT OUR ONLINE STORE🟢🟢www.amazon.com...
🔺🔺SHOP ALL Exclusive Products found on our CZcams channel for your project! 🔺🔺
Products in this video:
3M Performance Spray Gun: amzn.to/3BXUwPu
DV1 Clearcoat Gun: amzn.to/3BBqL5O
DV1 Basecoat Gun: amzn.to/3RcSQ9j
Clearcoat: amzn.to/3UsNgm1
Degreaser: amzn.to/3TcndP7
3M Blocks: amzn.to/3Vly4Yg
Glazing Putty: amzn.to/3VnMaZ1
Paint Gun Cleaning Kit: amzn.to/3qZ4dXM
Gloves: amzn.to/3R9C9eW
Gun Cleaner: amzn.to/3LDv2tW
Water Cleaner: amzn.to/3Budv2V
Prep Cleaner: amzn.to/3BPU4Tlu
I've been adding reducer to my clear for years and years. It really does help the clear lay flat.
Use slow activator so it has time to flow out and flatten out
@Chase Williams Its just the regular reducer you use with your basecoat. Just like he shows in the video it only takes a small amount and make sure you use the right temp rating, especially if your not in a climate controlled booth. He explains it perfectly in the video.
@Chase Williams not sure but can also purchase clear that has less solids ...the orange peel that does form is easier to buff out
@Chase Williams Reducer works similarly to thinner but with urethane base/clear systems you use reducer that is made to work with it. Thinner is more known for being used with acrylic enamel type paints. I know guys who have used regular thinner with their primer because thinner is cheaper than reducer but I've never personally heard of anyone using thinner with basecoat or clearcoat. Also when I first started painting some of the older guys who had worked with Acrylic enamel before urethane basecoat/clearcoat systems became norm still called the new reducer thinner because that's what they were used to but like I said its actually 2 different things but works similarly for different applications.
@Chase Williams You're correct, reducer is just another name for thinner. So every time you've used thinner, you've used reducer, and vice versa...
Thanks again Brian, my understanding of what the paint and clear coat is actually doing has really improved over the last couple of years watching you. Live long and prosper buddy 🙏
I spray outside. I have need adding thinners to my clear for years. Helps me get it smooth and I get a paint booth finish every time. Even spraying outside in the hot sun. No orange peel and I flow coat it saucy !
Years ago all the clears you added reducer. With current voc laws everything changed These high solids clears can be a challenge to spray. I’ve learned just a little reducer can help with that. Awesome video
Most clears I use these days are high solid clears and they all require reducer and just like laying base pick the reducer speed to match the temp .
That's why I'm #1 fan of paint society ❤🎉😅
I think thats what the last person who painted my truck did. It looked nice and smooth, but only lasted 5 years. Started flaking off and peeled. This is why i am watching your channel and re painted my truck.
BASF Glasurit clear is known to have extremely long life....enough for shops to give lifetime warranty
So humble, I feel blessed! Greetings from Hungary!
I use to do this with model kits & an airbrush way back when
i bet painting models would be an awesome way to test car paint mixtures
This is old knowledge to the new ones!! 👌🏼
I like to do first 2 coats, let it sit approx 36 hrs, wetsand with 1500 to remove any surface trash, dust runs, etc. Then set up the clear again for 2 more coats but use reducer as you noted. Turns the now matte sanded and smooth surface into a high quality finish. I like this method cause if these last 2 coats aren't overly heavy, and any dust that does stick at this point will be settling into a rather thin coat of clear and easily buffed out with a light polish in most cases.
This is referred to as flow coating....I've been trying it recently with good result
Too much work using 1500 grit' 600/800 is fine enough and levels the clear out faster rather than polishing over it.
@BryanClark-gk6ie I meant 1k. 600/800 only if lots of build up or a drip/run in clear..I'm cautious though and picky. Don't wannt cut the paint, especially metallic lol.
@@phillipgrandison2384
You can always dust a little base coats over the areas if you happen to sand through the CC.
@@BryanClark-gk6ie Ive hit it with 1000, but on a palm sander with a foam interface pad. I just dont have the balls to go any harder. Mind you, I'm always using stupid expensive base coat colors.
I haven’t had any problems with orange peal in my clear coat painting in temperatures 85 to 62 degrees. The only issues I have had is switching from upper grade paints to lower grade paints. The higher grade paints lay smooth and flat, while the lower grade paints finish is rough with a leather grain finish like the K2 primer which requires wet sanding. The only way taround it is extra coats of clear to fill in the valleys of the rough paint finish. Sure, I can wet sand the lower grade paints to make them smooth and flat… but why sand off expensive paint material and risk sanding down to the primer.
From my personal experience as a hobby painter I will pay the money for the upper grade paint so I can use less clear coats to cover up the sins of the lower grade paints. Any tips on making the cheaper lower grade paint lay smooth and flat? Thank you!
great video, by adding reducer you are changing the viscosity (thickness) of the clear. The thinner (less viscosity) the clear the less orange peel. but you are flirting with a higher chance of runs and sags. I the TDS there is a suggested viscosity to spray all top coats. To measure this viscosity you have to do a viscosity drip test. To get a perfect job you have to do perfect chemistry. This means not guessing and knowing what your spraying. (for the advanced class) Another educational vid.
I need to do that. I'm a "newb" painter, self taught by watching CZcams videos and I almost always have a vehicle covered in orange peel when I'm done
Use slow activator bro ...the slow drying helps give the clear time to flatten out
@@mariocooldude9092 that is my plan from now on
Really appreciate your videos. Trying to soak this all in, I've done a few diy panels in the past with decent results out of a spray can, but finally doing a full color change on one of my rides this Spring. Can't wait! Thanks for arming me with extra knowledge Brian, you the man.
Great to hear!
Jon Kosmoski did that years ago on the second session of clear after sanding 600p . He called it "flow coat" lol
5% for volume on medium solid
10% for volume on high solid
On each coat 👍
That’s my old trick. You did a great job, it looks awesome!
Thank you for these videos. It’s helped me sharpen up my paint game so much
Glad to help
Discussing the technical aspects of paint drying and all that can go wrong takes me back to my first job out of college working as a paint chemist for an industrial coatings manufacturer. I am so glad I decided to give working as an industrial chemist and go to medical school. As we used to say in the paint lab... paint is pain with a "T".
Gives you 700 scenarios where you can screw up------- Video ends, "dont overthink it, its just paint" lmao, thanks for all the help and confidence youve given me as a newbie into this craft!
Great tips! Making these changes makes a big difference in your finish.
Sigh... what a beautiful finish. Better than factory made. here in Africa we cannot even buy the products needed. And I have 3 classics that need redoing. 73 VW Bug, 83 Nissan Patrol, 93 Volvo 850 wagon.
This whole time I’ve been reducing my first coat 😂
me too, and now i will try this second coat method...
It’s ok if you reduce your first coat. If your not having issues, don’t change it.
I had actually started to just not reduce it and just make sure to spray a heavy second coat with plenty of fluid
guilty
2:34 this has me laughing. This is a work of art
Orange peel is less of a threat than solvent pop. You can usually fix orange peel but not solvent pop. A slow hardener is a big help.
My favorite clear . It’s been on back order since July here in NC .
Wish you were closer to me. I need someone to fix my tri coat metallic paint. The guy who sprayed it needs to watch more of your videos. I’m in Las Vegas
What about on a 3rd coat? Should i use the Same 10% reducer as 2nd coat ratio? 😎👍 Thanks buddy! 🤘
🤣 the look away spray got me
A great video Brian thanks for the insight, I will try this next time I spray
I find temperature-matching the reducer or hardener is best, with maximum air pressure for whatever gun being used. The higher atomization occurs with higher pressure at the gun. Combined with speed and distance, one shouldn't need extra reducer.
i use reducer extra slow for the 3 layer😊😊😊.. give me nice n flat
Glad I watched. Switched to HS clear with reducer recently and i`ve had issues with runs.
Hold back on your thinners so dude.just use it without the thinners should help you
I know quite a few painters in the production shop environment that adds a little reducer in the clear. I myself don’t do that and most paint do old skool and custom paint jobs don’t either. We know we’re going to cut and buff anyway
Thank you for all your help
Great info. I always learn something. Thank you
Great tips Brian.. Keep up good works..
Ah Man U know as well as me.. some products, we use protech maxi glaze, you totally can over reduce a little.. I go 20 percent on coat 1 and 2 and 25 on my third coat.. I always go 3 clear.. I know some shops won’t let you because the margins are so tight, but 3 clear always looks better to me with the 3rd being over reduced a little.
25%? dam thats alot imo but if it works for u then great! I just started reducing my clear by 5% and it makes a world of difference. If ur using cheap clear like me, putting the extra coat of clear on cost like $30 for your typical front end job. IMO not much if u want a ok paint job to look like a great paint job.
You're the goat brother. 💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾. The best teacher on CZcams
Hey brother. I been watching your channel. Keep it up
watching you spray the hood and you are not even watching what you are doing,dude your technique is top notch to pull that off,I would have had the air hose laying on the hood if I tried that
Your videos are fantastic. I learned how to paint at a trade school, you would be a great instructor. I switched to the body side but still paint a little on the side. Is there a chance you can make videos about budget/midgrade single stage?
Great tip, I was using reducer on the 1st coat too. Now I know better. Thx Brian!
Great tip
Hey thanks for this video, just showed it to my class and they loved it!!
Great tip. Thanks for sharing. Love this channel.
You may want to run your hose up your arm from the gun over your shoulders behind your neck and hold it with your other hand to keep from dragging the hose on the fender or the hood. A simple technique to save a load of problems in your finish. I painted cars for more than 30 years and found this technique of hose handling to be great at saving myself a lot of grief. Holding it in front of your body like that is asking for a lot more work.
I used that reducer hack for a lot of years but I used it in both coates. And as far as build up on edges...good spray technique will solve that. Never stop on any edge. Always spray beyond any edge or gap. Always overlap your masking. do not stop at or on your tape. go beyond it maybe 6 inches. Paint with a consistent distant from the surface and treat every panel as though it is flat. Never try to compensate for body lines or irregularities in surfaces. Always keep your gun at 90 deg to whatever surface you are painting. If you are on a curved surface simply spray every pass at a 90 deg to surface and change gun position as each pass progresses over panel.
If you think today's cars are tough to paint try painting the trunk lid and rear 1/4s on a '69 or '70 Cadillac. Look up what they look like. Tail fins, sharp edges, recesses and huge flat surfaces meeting at one point. And most colors were high metallics...and clear coates. A great learning platform.
Of course...everything is easy...if you know how. Right?
Thank you bossman for this information
I love a white vehicle. I really need to do a color change on my old Buick.
i paint in between 50 and 60Degree in england and i also add reducer to my clear.
Here in pa I do it on 3 coat
The orange peal hack is awesome, what i want to learn though is how to snap my fingers and all the masking is done lol
Same here!
Thanks for the great advice brother
Great video Brian. Thanks for the tips Sir
Thank you as always Brain!!
Where i live its cold..and most clears are hs not ms...so its a bit like spraying soup if you don't use reducer
great work and tips my friend 👌
Brian you must have an angel on your shoulder.....proximity of hose to hood at 2:11 - 2:13 on this video.
He definitely tapped the freshly coated hood with the sprayer hose 😬
Another great tip
Brian , very informative video, If you need and idea for a future video I was thinking you could do one on how the scale works in the mixing room ? and average guy watch's the painter put the cup on the scale and start pouring product in , but I am sure there is a lot more to it . thanks for taking the time to make these videos Pete
Thanks mr Brian you videos help me alot am from MALAWI
Great information Brian
Should I use less reducer in a little bit cooler environment would that help with less orange peel as well
Perfect class🎉
Great tips! Don't forget to protect your eyes too!
So this flow trick is for the LAST coat?...say if I'm spraying 3 coats..?
I always thought it was best to let the last coat flash off for roughly double flash off time just to keep the top coat from sealing in the lower coats before putting the infrared lamps on the panels. Is that a no-no now? I had read in some industry newsletters that in production shops slowly ramping up the medium wave infrared heat would help cure all of the layers almost equally as medium wave infrared gets to the core of the object almost equally with the surface as opposed to long wave infrared, like a heat lamp on a buffet. And short wave does even deeper but has to be closer and it’s also more localized. I have noticed that when I get a run, if I’m quick and careful enough, I can use a heat gun and GENTLY apply some heat on the spot but also around the spot and keep the gun moving and for God’s sake I’ve learned the heard way to NOT let it get too hot. If you see smoke or steam it might be too late. But sometimes the heat will shrink away the wrinkle of the run as it accelerates the drying/curing, but if you don’t spread it out a bit it can have adverse reactions with the adjacent paint as the rate of cure is too much of a contrast with the adjacent paint and can cause serious wrinkling you can fix, peeling, blisters are the worst, but if you get it right you can get rid of a run without using a razor or even touching the surface at all. I’ve also used a quick and clean swipe with a latex gloves finger tip dipped in blending solvent but don’t let it drip on the panel. That can help melt that run and let it flow into adjacent paint, especially if you can make a slightly heated circular area around the run just before using the blending solvent. So what is it EXACTLY that creates orange peel? It appears to be several different disparate reasons which are attributed to causing orange peel. But even the OEMs have orange peel on their ultra controlled and robotically applied paints. What’s the score? Heat or no heat? Warm or not? I have witnessed paint get nice and glossy while applying a heat gun to dry up a run. It’s like it shrinks away the orange peel and pulls the sling tighter therefore making it more glossy. But it doesn’t seem to work on an entire panel. I don’t get it.
I believe orange peel is caused by the spray not being fine enough. Test the spray on a piece of cardboard and look at the edge of the fan all around top and bottom. It has to be a mist. If you see any big drops you need to up the pressure. Higher pressure will waste more paint or clear due to more over spray. Maybe that's why factories use lower pressure to save paint or clear and end up with orange peel. Try it on a small job and see for yourself. Here's another tip. Finish your last coat on top to minimize over spray landing on the horizontal surfaces.
An OEM finish has orange peel some manufacturers are better about it than others, but clear coat is designed to provide that same OEM texture and finish. That's not to say it's preferable to a glass-like finish it's not, it's just what it is designed to do to replicate it so it matches that appearance. Spray technique and mixology can help reduce it.
Reducing clear for over many years painting since 85. But still Don't have thise fancy spray guns you use. Everyone doing videos, has good training tips, but then they use these guns average person can't afford.
I always think of paint guns like chefs knife’s, a professional chef can take a cheap knife and make a good dish but an inexperienced chef with an expensive knife is no good. The reason the professional uses an expensive knife is repetition.
Amen. It’s always easy for pros to say “here are tips…” and then they forget we noobs don’t have a 100k invested in the hardware, painting booth and matching system computer. Show me how to do this with a 25 dollar or even a 100 dollar harbor freight tools gun….THAT would be helpful.
I've done a lot of painting with cheap 50$ rongpeng HVLP and LVLP guns. With all sorts of weird paints.
Was doing some steel cabinets recently. Enamel went on absolutely beautiful running 8:1 or 10:1 with bog standard lacquer thinner.
One guy wanted a hard gloss finish (but didn't want to pay for clearcoat). I don't often use hardener, mfr said they never tested but they'd take any notes I generate.
Hardener mfr even after seeing the paint mfr said "thin however, any method for oil based should be fine" decided that because the website said, "we dont recommend thinning" that they'd no longer assist me (after wasting 6 hours of email knock knock).
Their hardener was creating *pebbling* (think dew rather than orange peel) and all I asked was, are there reducers I should avoid?
I was at the point of going from 10:1 paint: thinner mixed 8:1, to 6:1 paint:thinner mixed 8:1 with hardener. And I tried with everything from lacquer thinner to mineral spirits to Toulol, Xylol, MEK, Acetone (so everything from fast to slow drying) and it wasn't solving this weird surface tension problem. Wasted over $100 in paint and hardener and thinning chems for them to find an excuse to fuck off and abandon me.
But I generally find that nozzle size ends up being most important. Some heavy, slow stuff like enamel or alkyd you can run from 1.3-2.0+ (thinner dependent), while stuff like a water based "acrylic one part epoxy" (don't quote me, I have no idea how it's acrylic and epoxy) requires a water or partial PG cut and a 2.0mm or larger, wide open, to keep it from drying midair. I even painted that acrylic crap on a 90% humidity day and it was still trying to dry before hitting the surface. I generally will paint with whatever the customer wants. It's hell on earth 🤣
Hahaha not looking you're killing me smalls .looks good
Paint and clear shrinks 10 %, takes around 3-9 months depending on drying conditions. Your second coat will shrink down to your first. First should look like the last. To much reducer in clear will lead to cracking clear in the future, I'm sure we've all seen it on old paint jobs and know we now know why, use reducer only if required from manufacturer. it will lay down flat and when the solvents rise it will leave voids leading to cracks in the future.
Position your hose behind your back, you hit the hood with hose. Start from the top of the panel down in my opinion. less material on the lower portions of the panels, AVOID PAINTING OVER THE DOOR HANDLE VOIDS, you can mist it later on if its dry, stop spraying before your reach the end of the panel, try painting the door in 3 sections rather than one shot, make sure the panels are warm, use slow hardener, push your needle in and TAKE YOUR TIME. You can inspect job and spray clear on dry spots after youve went around without leaving overspray if using slow hardener. it will look dry at first but with 5 minutes it will melt in. I appreciate what your doing and hope some of my tips help you get the results you're looking for.
I have a silver car and planning on changing the color to red. Do you have a video of a color change vehicle?
Brian I've had a clear look great when I sprayed it but the next day it had on the sides and some spots on the top didn't shine like it did when I was done spraying it.
Does this apply to the last clear coat? What if u put down 3-4 coats.
You risk solvent boil going your first coat standard reducer and then going a slower reducer in the next coats..
Hello Brian. You said do this hack on the second coat. what about the third coat? Thank you
No orange peel...? Every OEM vehicle I've looked at for the last 30+ years has orange peel, a few top tier luxury brands being the exception.
If it's not flat - it's not flat. Unless someone can share a link to a Riddler winner (or equivalent) that did it with an out-of-the-gun finish.
Not trying to be a dick, I enjoy your channel and have learned a lot. But I feel like the claim of "no orange peel" isn’t really honest. Getting paint flat, I mean laser-straight, takes hundreds of hours of sanding and polishing. Can't even be done with just a 6" DA and a 7" or 9" rotary, much less off the gun.
hey ... first coat gun air pressure?....... any different air pressure for the reduced 2nd coat?
1:1 Epoxy adding 20% reducer as a sealer? how do you figure in percentages?
Great tips again sir! 10%
Thank you!
It would be nice to see a Urechem review
Can I add the slower solvents to help with single stage solid colors too?
Correction in Question about Metalux clear.. Its Montana I think (same company)
Hi myself from India ,why my clear coat look hazy after a day of application .Once sprayed it will have a mirror finish but look very dull after 24 hours of curing.please help me with this issue
Damn where was this video last week when I painted my bike
Your the man
Thanks for another great video, Brian. Does this trick apply even if I am using the maximum recommended thinner in the first clearcoat coat to still add 10% on the second and third coat?
Best tip I could give someone is you get what you pay for! I’m in Australia so going off our prices.. but you can buy a 7 ltr ms clear kit for under 200 bucks.. but a really good hs clear can be over 500.. BIG DIFFERENCE in the finish but..
What type of reducer should be used for thinning clear
Being I’m just learning to paint, my question about painting in Texasheat. In a paint booth I built in half my garage which has 95 degrees. Paint was drying fast even with Slow activator. I was wondering if I could use a reducer to slow flashing alittle more. Thank you
Add retarder.
Can you do this hack on the 2nd and 3rd coat??
Does it matter what brand of reducer
if you get runs like me, if you tinn it out or reduce it its easier to get runs, also im my experience its impossible to polish out the tinned out runs.
Update: it works very well, I wasn’t expecting it to be soo good (and I got no runs)
@@nathank8547 That update is good to know. I was concerned about runs for sure.
Hi Brian, can we do the same for the second coat even if spraying single stage paint? Thanks
You can try it is yes
Are there some clears that are more prone to orange peel versus others? Thank you
Would like to know where to get the paint scale
It's wrong if I mix clear coat with 40/100 or paint with 100/100.If I not dilute with this ratio not comes out from the gun.
Thanks
Reducer definitely can create solvent pop
Many things can create solvent pop