Chrysler Automatic Transmission Fluid - ATF History Part 4
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- Get ready for 67 Years of Chrysler Automatic Transmission Fluid History! Also, learn when to change your "Lifetime" transmission fluid
TIMELINE:
0:00 Introduction
0:40 1938 Chrysler Fluid Drive
2:20 Mopar Fluid Drive Fluid
7:00 The 1954 Chrysler PowerFlite Automatic Transmission
9:00 1953 Mopar Type "A" fluid
11:33 1957 Mopar Type "A" Suffix "A" fluid
13:58 1966 Type MS-3256 fluid
14:39 1968 Type MS-4228 / Dexron fluid
17:07 1973 ATF+ Type MS-7176 / Dexron-II fluid
20:53 The "NEW" Chrysler Corporation
24:25 1980 ATF+2 Type MS-7176D fluid
26:20 1993 ATF+3 Type MS-7176E fluid
30:25 1998 ATF+4 Type MS-9602 fluid
33:44 2006 CVTF+4 fluid
35:14 2008 ASRC fluid
37:45 2013 8 & 9 Speed ATF
38:58 MUST SEE: When to change your transmission fluid
41:48 Aftermarket Fluid Warning
44:29 Video wrap-up
ABOUT US:
Weber State University (WSU) - Department of Automotive Technology - Ardell Brown Technology Wing - Transmission Lab. This is the fourth of a five-part series on the History of Automatic Transmission Fluids. See the complete series here: • The History of Automat...
See www.centerforqa.com/chrysler-... for a list of licensed Mopar ATF+4 fluids.
WSU is a leader in Advanced Vehicle Systems education. This topic is taught as part of our 2-year Associate degrees and our 4-year bachelor's degree program. For information on joining the Weber Automotive program, visit: www.weber.edu/automotive
This video was created and edited by Professor John D. Kelly at WSU. For a full biography, see www.weber.edu/automotive/J_Kel...
DONATE TO OUR DEPARTMENT
Please consider a donation to the Department of Automotive Technology at Weber State University here: advancement.weber.edu/Automotive
I started with Chrysler Corporation in 1953 with the Chrysler division and moved to the Imperial division in 1955. I can't remember who the guy was now, but he pitched red dye for leak detection to the brass and they agreed with him. However the supplier balked about it diluting the finished product, so some had the red dye some did not that went on for years. That was also a running inside joke between the divisions that went something as I work in the Plymouth division, not Imperial I'm undyed or something like that. The first issue the red dye started to have was that it would break down and turn the fluid a dark brown leading to unnecessary fluid changes from mechanics and owners alike. The old saying of brown or burned fluid time for a change was, well a lie. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the fluid the dye broke down and made it appear brown, dirty or burnt looking. In 1978-1980 a lot was going on there were cutbacks and layoffs, arguments and all that mess. Management in 1979 under Lee put a stop to anything that cost anything, word for word how I was told. All projects were put on hold to be reviewed everything that was currently in production would continue like it was with no changes. At that time we had been using Dexron II(D) since late 1974 early 1975. MS-7176D or ATF+ was released in I think March of 1980. It was compatible with Dexron II and owners manuals up to1988 recommend Type 7176 or Dexron II fluids. I also have forgotten what the lab boys said that was so bad about the ATF+2 and +3 fluids but they had to go away by, literally to be withdrawn from the markets by April of 1998, that was in 1988 and work was in full swing with the new ATF+4 or MS-9602 that was released in I think 2000, I retired in 1995. What I always considered strange was the fact you could top up with ATF+3, but not fill with ATF+ or +2, never could get a straight answer to that. Those bottles of old ATF+ and ATF+3 you are looking for went the same way R-12 went. They were white, blue, red and gray backing plastic bottles shaped like brake fluid bottles with blue Mopar lettering, red lettering ATF+ TYPE 7176 one quart bottles and I forget what else they said on the front or back, I just remember that style did not last long because to many mechanics would grab a bottle and start to pour it in the brake reservoir and go damn it, yeah they were a bad design choice to make ATF bottles look like power steering and brake fluid bottles, but they never asked me and just went with it, but I still got the blame. The ATF+3 was your normal shaped plastic oil bottle like today with the offset spout. I don't know why I still know this but ATF+ Chrysler part number is 4467721. Maybe in the morning I will remember the part number for ATF+2 and 3.
I'm sorry it was ATF+ that had to be removed not ATF+3. Chrysler service bulletin 21-006-01 deals with ATF+3 and +4. SAE paper #982674 deals with ATF+4. Well what do you know here is an old eBay listing of ATF+ good pictures, www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1986-Mopar-Automatic-Transmission-Fluid-ATF-Type-7176-1-US-Quart-Full-/282916957159?_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l44720&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true
I searched google with the part number and this was one of the results and a lot of other garbage.
Fantastic information! Thank you for sharing that history with us. The red dye darkening is still an issue today and does not indicate anything about the condition of the fluid. Thanks for the TSB and the link to the old photo as well! You have a wonderful memory, have a great day!
@@WeberAuto I wanted to add this as well but forgot Allpar.com and MyMopar.com has an extensive library of a lot of the old stuff we did, here is a video from an old slide film on MyMopar.com Chrysler Master Tech - 1951, Volume 5-1 Fluid - Torque Drive czcams.com/video/g9iwSbrUgp8/video.html An we were able to go all the way back to 1948 to I think 1977 both Chrysler archives and a lot of other people offered these up to be put in digital for future viewers and history buffs. I always got a kick out of the no nonsense wooden doll charter Mr. Tech, I can't remember the voice actors name, but they were all filmed at Building 135 at the old Highland Park Chrysler complex.
There is no more interesting "prof" than the author of this video. I will say that IF every "prof" in every college in the US; was like John Kelley, the entire nation would benefit indescribably and for the better without doubt.
Such a NON typical "prof" is John.
Thank you Sir. What a blessing you are. Praise Jesus for such "gifts" and "talents".
Thank you very much!
I second that!
I third that (if that's possible). And don't forget to send links all over the place. This is a worldwide effort.
The one big thing I took away from this "Fluid Series" is, READ THE LABEL ON THE BACK OF THE CONTAINER! ! With all the claims on the front, the "TRUTH BE KNOWN" is on the back label!
Thank you again professor for this information. Great Video!
You are absolutely correct, they can be misleading. thank you and thanks for your feedback!
In the future, when all cars are electric and don't use transmissions, *THIS* will be humanity's reference to what it was. Great job, Prof, keep adding to the library!
Thank you very much!
Prof. Kelly, If my college instructors had made everything as interesting as you do, I would have finished!
Thank you very much
Absolutely amazing video and just what I was looking for to define what an AQ Transmission fluid was. WOW! Thank you
MANY years ago, in the mid-late '70's, I had
a "sand rail" type car. It was based on an OLD
Chrysler frame, drastically shortened. It had
a straight 6 engine, and the 3 pedal Fluid Drive.
It had no body, except the floor, and I welded on
something that looked like the footrest on a
Harley. Just to keep mud out of our faces.
I drove it, for about a year, as my daily driver.
Since there were no doors, people could watch
my feet, while I drove. I LOVED to take off from
a stoplight, and row through the gears, like a
normal 3 speed transmission. Next light, I'd
leave it in 3rd, with my foot off the clutch, and
proceed to drive away, just like a normal
automatic transmission, except a bit slower.
(This was MUCH lighter than the original car,
so it wasn't all that too slow.)
steve
I own two, and soon to be three, Mopar high performance vehicles with ZF 8HP70 and 90 transmissions, and my opinion on the "lifetime" fluid is: 1. it is a calculated financial choice parlayed as marketing hype by FCA that a majority of the vehicles "should" make it to the end of the warranty period without the fluid being changed and without the transmission failing because of it - after that, they could care less, as the cost is on the consumer; and 2. As a mechanical engineer by profession, and with 30 years of building race cars, engines, and transmissions as a hobby, there is no such thing as a lifetime oil of any kind, and I will be servicing my ZFs at some lower mileage intervals just as with others, as I tend to keep my vehicles for a long time and take pristine care of them
Thanks for your feedback. I agree with you.
Absolutely fascinating series of videos. Your museum-worthy collection of vintage ATF cans/bottles, service manuals, other literature, and ACTUAL TRANSMISSIONS, is incredible. Thank you for sharing all this and your extensive knowledge and wisdom.
I have an ATF+4-generation Liberty CRD with the 545RFE transmission, I didn't catch that in your list of transmissions. I think it was also used behind the Hemi in the trucks.
Previously I had a '96 Grand Cherokee of the ATF+3 generation (42RE, I think), so I've had plenty of Castrol ATF+3 bottles... unfortunately they're long gone, or I'd gladly donate to your collection.
Thank you again, Prof. Kelley! You have the most amazing collection of transmissions and the legacy fluids..beyond cool!!
Thank you very much!
37 yrs ago worked on a tug with fluid drive. had to be 20 yrs old when i remember it called it a wet clutch or fluid drive .had inline 6 with 3 or 4 speed trans with a low low . thanks for the info . as always thanks for sharing
Thank you for sharing. You are welcome
Fantastic. I was thrilled to get this so soon after the Ford series. Great job Dr. Kelly
Thank you very much
Its a slippery subject, for sure. Thanks for the great videos you do!
LOL, Thanks for watching!
Your history lectures are superb
Rockstars get unmentionables thrown on stage. I have visions of John getting vintage cans & bottles of ATF tossed his way.
LOL! Thank you
@@WeberAuto Hopefully they're empty. that could hurt!
Love this series!!!
Thank you!
Very interesting and informative! Thanks for another great video Professor !
Thanks as always for your rather informative and equally interesting videos.
Thank you
Thankyou Proff. Kelley your presentations are very interesting and informative, I get many "gems" each time I watch.....who needs TV ! You tell a great story ! Ken Colvin Aust.
You are so welcome!
We have a county fleet of 365 vehicles of various makes and models. We do not change the transmission fluid in any of our county vehicles. We run them to 150k before we get rid of them. To this day, we have not experienced transmission failures due to degraded fluid. We look at it this way, the money saved not doing transmission services we can afford to have a transmission rebuilt from time to time. This has worked well for our fleet. Im not saying its for every fleet but works for us. Having said that, i would change the transmission fluid in my own personal vehicles due to the fact that i tend to keep them forever.
Great feedback, thank you very much!
Really I learned from you about history of transmission fluid and the first AT transmission of Chrysler car. Thank you so much
Thank you
I'm such a tech nerd. Luv this stuff! Thank you professor.
Thank you
Thanks for all video, i see all of your video always, really very useful best wishes
Thank you
Great content as always.
Thank you
I can remember in the 50s that early Imperials were burning up their fluid. They went to a higher temp fluid, still burning up; Turns out the chauffers were loading the converters to keep their feet warm
The last years of the Chrysler semi-automatic used a Torque Converter. Fluid drive was never offered in a Plymouth. 1954 Plymouth did have available Hi-Drive, a Torque Converter with the 3-speed manual.
The chart on the screen has all this correct, but the spoken part is not correct.
Thanks for your feedback, you are correct
Hy-Drive was available on 1953 and early 1954 Plymouth cars. In the 1954 model year Plymouth introduced PowerFlite which was a two speed fully automatic transmission and it was made until the 1961 model year.
Great video sir thank you
Thanks for the video
You are welcome
John, Great work as usual. The Mopar+4 ATF is a high quality and advanced fluid especially at the time of introduction in the late 90s. Lubrizol was one of the specialty chemical manufacturers involved in the development process and helped bring a long life fluid to Chrysler side of the transmission world.
+4 is a great replacement fluid for applications called for Dexron III if you want improved shift quality and oil life. Older Toyota applications prior to WS shift especially nice with this fluid and again due to the stability of the oil can benefit from the extended drain intervals.
The Jatco built CVT JF011E is the same unit in the Dodge, Jeep, and Nissan. The fluid is exactly the same. Shop on price.
The prices of ZF Lifeguard 8 and the Chrysler fluid is beyond ridiculous and again just another way to gouge the motoring public. They benefit from the confusion on this topic. There are better alternative oils available, but again I won’t belabor that topic. The folks who follow the manufacturers recommendations and keep their vehicles will be requiring the services of a transmission shop or dealer soon enough.
Thank you and thanks for your feedback!
Appreciate you sharing information on ZF service intervals and description of normal vs severe duty.... Thanks
Happy to help, best wishes!
Thank you Sir, im watching 3am here, also cant wait for toyota, love from canada
Love your auto fluid videos, getting to the end on the Aisin 6 speed behind the Cummins using arsc oil. Our 2007 fuso’s/ sterling cab overs use the same transmissions but the oil is a far out price. When you didn’t use the right oil it was only a matter of time it would take out some o rings and the truck would stop shifting and throw codes. Being a dealership though I have to admit using the Amsoil atf with the same 3309 certificate number has actually done great considering the transmission bin out in heavy service since 2007. We won’t stock the Mitsubishi fuso oil because of the price. We even go over to the dodge dealership to buy the dodge filter and trim the pickup part of the filter to compensate for the shorter oil pan in the cab over trucks.
Thanks a lot for the effort and the time ....great information.... Didn't Chysler used Mercedes transmassion for some time was called NAG 1 / MB 722.6
Yes, correct
Thank you prof.for all useful information you give , and if we return back to the beginning of this video you mention that Chrysler was the first company using the long life fluid by filling 80% fluid and 20% nitrogen so there is no chance for the oxidation ... for this point now maybe Chrysler have the same idea or explanation that they mean in the owner manual about the long life fluid which never changes under normal conditions
Yes, correct. Thank you for watching
Thank you very much John for such a video very informatively I teach a lot about your videos...) nais
Thank you
LOVE LOVE LOVE the hard work you put into these videos! Its so great to see in a world where "good enough" is good enough that some still takes the time to understand the advice they give. This is a topic I've become increasingly concerned about as I age and wisdom slowly sets in. Largely due to your lectures I have all but sworn off aftermarket parts. Fluids are next on my list. I have a 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee utilizing the Chrysler 42RE auto which calls for MOPAR ATF+4. In the 10+ years of ownership I have ran Valvoline's ATF+4 fluid instead. I've had not real issues out of it but I would like to change to MOPAR's fluid to satisfy my OCD tenancies. Would you be concerned about switching back after using Valvoline for so long? Should I just stick with what works until time for an overhaul and switch back then? The statement from Valvoline is this:
"Certified and approved for all Chrysler cars and
trucks that require ATF+4®, ATF+3®, ATF+2® or ATF+®."
Thank you and thanks for your feedback. See www.centerforqa.com/chrysler-about/ for a list of licensed Mopar ATF+4 fluids. I see some Valvoline fluids listed. See if they are the ones you are using. If they are, no need to change the fluid since is is licensed by Chrysler. best wishes.
Great video! I love your speaking style and detail. Do you have information on the fluid for the Hyundai 6 speed used on the Dodge Dart and the DDCT fluid for the same car with the 1.4L engine?
Thanks!
Hello professor
Thanks for that video
You are welcome
very cool specific information on mopar atf's dear professor, and very convenient because im putting together a 1967, 318 engine i recently rebuild that goes into a A727 trany that needs the front seal and replenish of its atf, and i just learned that atf+4 will do it right once you displayed its back sticker on screen 🎥
regarding the life time limit on changing the at fluid on special synth blends, i believe that the manufacturer let us choose between common sense and oem specs accordingly to the fluid's capacity to properly lubricate as it was originally intended; in other words, @ 50k severe conditions: just change it, or wait until the next recommended mileage as stated, or/ in any case, you still have 8 years total (which is probably the maximun life span of that atf) to make up your mind or to do it right 💀
thank you so much for your precious time 👈
Awesome, I am glad it was helpful. Thanks for your feedback
These videos keep on getting better and better. I have a Ford six speed [Ranger pickup] a Toyota 4 speed [1998 Land Cruiser 100], an Aisin 8 speed in the latest Volvo XC90, plus a ZF 9speed in my Honda CR-V. All mated to turbo-diesel engines.
Looking forward to the Toyota fluid video and, if possible, your view on whether it is worth changing the filter and whether a flush is justified to change a higher proportion of the old fluid that is stored in the torque convertor. I've changed the oil in my Toyota four times in 180,000 miles but never flushed it. Unfortunately the power brake motor [no simple vacuum servo on these] has failed and the cost of parts is prohibitive although the rest of the car is in great condition, including the engine, transmission and chassis.
Thank you and thanks for your feedback
Great video for me and my 2019 8-speed RAM truck - thanks! And currently, the Mopar 8&9 ATF fluid is running $60 a quart from Walmart (cheapest source).
Thanks for watching
excellent video thanks !! What transmission oil do you recommend for my 53 dodge coronet, thanks for your help !!!
I can remember fluid drive with a wide ratio transmission with an overdrive. You could take off and then lift your foot and it would shift so you could start in high unless you needed the lower gear to start on a hill or whatever-
Great video, but what is in the fluid drive? or what would you use if you changed it now
Redline makes an awesome oil that replaces the ATF+4 that's called ATF C+. Works like a charm.
What is your opinion of the 42rle? I have a 2010 Chrysler 300 & absolutely love it.. it's a keeper and wanted to get a remanufactured one.. it's got almost 200k on it, slipping a little not too much. Thank you love your channel.. transmissions are such a complicated beast.. I love the four speed rear wheel drive
Thanks John! Priceless information again. Yes. My 2010 F150 with the 6R80 pushes air out when it runs and when cool its in a partial vacuum, as you know. And that's great as long as the transmission has no leaks. Well i'm here to tell you in my experience these things leak before 100000 miles from numerous areas. So I replaced the transmission fluid at 25000 miles because of a shudder since new, Ford wouldn't do it and normal maintenance. Shudder still a issue that still occurs on converter lock up when hot and after being in stop and go traffic. The shudder Is another issue but after filter and fluid replacement the gasket tore and is suppose to be reusable. I used the one that came with the filter kit. 15000 miles later the bulkhead connector leaked so I dumped it again I drained it. about 1/4 cup of water was in the bottom of the pan,. I replaced the connector and went back to the OEM reusable silicone and aluminum OEM gasket. Added Another small bottle of lubrigard friction modifier at 60000 miles (to no avail). now has 90000 miles and no leaks just shudder. The diff input seal leaked at 20000 I replaced the fluid then shortly afterwards because they didn't they just topped it off. again if oil leaked out, I'm sure moisture (or Water in the case of the F150 trans) got in
Had a sprinter van with 38000 miles and had a leak at the shift rod input that was repaired under warranty. that had a long change interval 150000 miles i believe? Sold the truck at 52000 miles because if so many body integrity and mechanical issues.
I could see a very long interval for mileage. Not so much time 3 years or 1000000 miles may be more realistic a number to me. Again I agree it is possible just not on vehicles in my New England, and most areas especially where some manufacturers have a hard time sealing housings. Moving parts equate to wear right? it did the last I knew. Just isn't realistic Fliuds are the most importent and cheapest thing that can be done and often doesn't cost much more than a tank of fuel...
Anyway..Perhaps Someone out there knows why my early 2010 6R80 shudders and some others dont...? Some say a some late 2009 early 2010's I have had issues like this. Some say a Valve Body Replacement MAY helps, some say a New Converter MAY help and some say nothing helps. Yep the TCM was flashed a few times by Ford under warranty. All this re-flash did was ELIMINATE Converter lockup in 1-5 gears and the same shudder occurs on hot lockup and on the highway on light throttle tip in and during a throttle position change that may occur when starting to climb a slight grade. Heavy throttle no slip because it wont lock then, TOW_HALL does not eliminate it but does reduce it of course because of a higher shift point and lock-up speed
There was a Ford TSB issued 10-25-13: 4.6L WITH 6R80 TRANSMISSION - TORQUE CONVERTER SHUDDER - 25-45 MPH (40-72 KM/H) - BUILT ON OR BEFORE 12/1/2009. ISSUE: Some 2010 F-150 vehicles equipped with a 4.6L engine, 6R80 transmission and built on or before 12/1/2009 may exhibit a shudder which is felt during low speed, light throttle acceleration between 25-45 MPH (40-72 Km/h). The shudder/vibration event typically occurs when the vehicle downshifts and is followed by a light throttle tip-in. A new calibration is available to address the concern.
Is this the TCM flash you were referring to? I do not see any other TSBs for a shudder. Make sure you are using the correct Mercon LV fluid (as you know). Best wishes
@@WeberAuto Yes. It was re-flashed 3 times on this TSB It was back to the dealer about 6 times. once at one dealer and twice at another. They even drove it for a week and said it was fine. I finally just gave up... All the TSB re-flash did was eliminate the converters programmed and signal from the TCM and no lock-up in 1 thru 5 gears I always locked up in every gear after the shifts which gave great city mileage when babied. Not so much after the flash. Thank you for the info though. and pat dee is absolutely correct. Your priceless efforts are very much appreciated John and 100 accurate. not sure why you dont have 80 million subs. Love the detail please dont change anything.. 5 Gold stars.. Glad I found you on youtube Peace
Edit: if I find any cans ill send them to you
@@NotHarry-er3wg Thank you very much, best wishes with your F-150
I wonder if on my 1942 d22 if its still the same fluid drive fluid from 80 years ago
Very interesting and informative, John. I believe i have a bottle of Mopar ATF+3. Where should i E-mail a picture of it?
FWIW, VW said the same thing regarding never needing to change the fluid in their vehicles equipped with ZF automatics. But, just like the ones fitted to Chrysler vehicles, ZF lists a similar service interval for the VW units. I agree it sounds like marketing bunk.
I know VW got some pushback with their DSG transmissions needing a fluid change every 40k miles... but it turns out if you stick to that schedule the transmissions last a good long time. Imagine that!
Hello Prof. Kelly, I just find you in youtube doing research.
I just got a Chryler 62TE Rebuilt and hasn't coming good, first thing I found was leaking brought it back and the fixed apparently they have to take it out because some leaks out of torque convertor. I just mention them before and after the leak fixed that wasn't doing the shifting smooth and in between 4-5 & sometime 5-6 was a delay shifting gears and they say is normal because of the design of new torque converter some type of double locking system on it, never heard of that before as per my understanding transmissions has to shift smooth without lags......and in the afternoon checking engine bay I just heard Ticking Noise from Transmission Solenoid Pack with car in Park, First time I heard that in any transmission, Could be a bad solenoid causing that?
Thanks
I have a 1952 dodge coronet, fluid drive, I am from Brasil, do you know witch kind of fluid should I use to substitute this mopar fluid drive, thanks for the video, very nice
Hi. Just come across your videos, very interesting.
May i ask your opinion in using the ATF+4 in the German made 722.6? Jeep used the 722.6 Mercedes transmission and designated it the W5J400. Chrysler stated the fluid to use in the W5J400 was ATF+4.
It always seems odd to use the Chrysler fluid in a Mercedes manufactured transmission when Mercedes used a MB236.10 fluid.
Is ATF+4 compatible with the Mercedes fluid?
Hi did you find a photo of ATF + 3 also if an after market CVT fluid like Amsoil specifies a product number on the back label same as Nissan CVT fluid should the after market fluid be as good or better than the OEM fluid . i have a gallon of ATF+3 i think Thanks JM
HI Prof, Thanks for the very interesting and informative video. I have the opportunity to work on a 1949 Desoto with fluid drive.
Do you know what is the best fluid to use in place of the Fluid Drive Fluid?
Some say use "Tractor Hydraulic Fluid" others say use a 10wt ATF.
Any help would be appreciated
Thanks
Lee
Good question. It has been a while since I researched that topic, but I think I found some recommendations on some forums. A low viscosity mineral oil is what was used by Chrysler. I suspect a 10W fluid would work. Thanks for watching
So as you mentioned sir in this video about the different or disconnecte between Chrysler and zf , my be we find some one say that Chrysler deceit there customer when they mentioned in the Owner manual that the fluid never change for the life of the vehicle for the Chrysler C200 model 2015 -2017 which it's work with transmission 9&8 speed & used 8&9 fluid
As a Toyota owner I’m very interested in the next video. Very interesting
Here it is czcams.com/video/t73jM6mT8sU/video.html
How does the ATF+4 in a Chrysler (NAG1) compare to the Mercedes fluid for a 722.6 in a Benz?
Didn't Professor Kelly say the first AQ-ATF number started at AQ-ATF-101?
So AQ-ATF-600 would only be the four hundred and ninety-ninth license?
29:00 misfire conversation,,,can you expand on all of that? That seems very interesting.
I have one that leaks. How hard is it to replace the seal?
Thanks for a captivating presentation. Does Chrysler make any of its own Torque Flite transmissions? I did not know that FordOMatic had a low gear. I always thought it was a two speed transmission. Lockup torque converters started in 1948 introduced on Packard's Ultramatic drive.
41:00 every manufacturer using ZF transmissions claim "lifetime" fluid, even BMW, yet it contradicts ZF themselves. The fluid can be had cheaper than $30 though if you buy it from ZF and not a rebranded manufacturer bottle, I just got 7 quarts @ $20.00 a quart during a holiday sale
Thanks for your feedback, that is good to know.
So on the sealed Fluid Drives, they filled them at the factory and welded them shut? There's no way without adding a hole to exchange the fluid?
Did the Mercedes 722.6 / NAG1 use ATF+4? Googling I just found a document saying the Crossfire and Sprinter use a different fluid, and the other cars use ATF+4... I wonder if that fluid is closer to the original MB specification?
Good question, I suspect they were filled when they were laying down flat (like in the video) upon initial assembly. According the Chrysler service information, the NAG1 does use ATF+4 fluid.
remember that mbz & chrysler merged for a while, then splited but it looks like they still engaged in some recent projects as well
I remember, you can still get a NAG1 in a Charger with the Police package today
Just one Question
Do all Automatic Transmission fluids have any components of Hydraulic fluid?
Very well done! Shudder is a real issue. New gm 6 speeds are getting flushed with a new blue label mobil 1 fluid at the gm dealer i work for.
Thank you very much. I think you mean the 8-speeds are getting flushed. Thanks for your feedback.
@@WeberAuto The Colorado's were added to the list recently. I'll have a better look at the tsb on Monday for accuracy.
Have a good day!
I was wrong.
It is the 8 speeds as you said.
@@eatingplaydoh Thanks, Yes, my 2018 Colorado 8-speed has the issue
With a fluid drive you don't take off, you just ooze away.
I was told years ago that the first transmission fluids were made from whale oil due to its higher purity and primitive refining technologies at the time.
ATF+4is a very cost effective solution but the additive package is still standard base. For let's say snow plows where you need very low viscosity to start then high temp performance when plowing low speed and high load Citgo Quatrosyn works better and has a much longer drain interval
Uncle John, if Chryslers are designed to last up to 75K miles or 8 yrs - whichever comes first - and no more, then their claims fully comply with ZF recommendations.
LOL! Thanks for your feedback
Exactly, assuming Chrysler meant to say the expected "life" of the vehicle, or time between overhaul (TBO), of the transmission is 75K miles. Either way it will be interesting to see real world TBOs based on actual transmission breakdowns.
Your history series of automatic transmission fluids are most interesting. I owned a 1972 Plymouth Satellite Sebring ( $3200 new ) that started leaking transmission fluid after 15,000 miles. I would change the transmission filter and fluid and go another 15,000 miles before it started leaking again. That was my first and last Chrysler product.
Wasn't the Powerflite air cooled ?
Every sample of Type A I ever saw was red. The first Type A I saw myself was in a new 1959 Torqueflite. I was told Type A was always red, but I saw that 1959 Torqueflite myself when it was new.
Interesting. I have several leaking cans of GM Type A fluid that are not red. I also have a can of Type A Suffix A fluid red dye for leak detection. The GM Dexron fluid was the first specification I am aware of where the red dye was required. There were probably other fluids that added it even through it was not required. Thanks again for your great feedback
@@WeberAuto Possibly Chrysler required the dye prior to GM.
My dad worked at a chrysler plmouth dealer in the late 1950's and 1960's, I remember red fluid around 1962 in factory fills.
@bad dog Good to know. Thank you
Isn't the "ZF" 8 speed transmission that Chrysler uses actually made by Chrysler under license?
So, conceivably, they're using different specifications such that they can recommend a "lifetime" change interval?
I think the claim of "lifetime" transmission fluid is bogus too, but if they're actually making it themselves in a different factory, maybe it really is different in some way from ZF's version.
Yes, the Chrysler built model is called the 845RE, but it still says ZF on the housing. Yes, you are correct. Conceivably, they could different specifications and recommend a "lifetime" change interval.
Is the Mopar ATF +4 Full synthetic ATF?
Yes, it is made from a Group 4 PAO base stock oil
ATF +4 was a blessing for chrysler as it seemed transmissioned failures really declined after this fluid was created. I have seen a handful of minivans that had the original factory fill of ATF+4 on them with over 150k and the fluid looked quite well still. It seems that a fill for life might apply to how many gears the transmission has to shift through and the application. The fluid seems to last quite long in the A604 application but no so in the truck transmissions. Changing it frequently is still a much cheaper option than not at all. I have only trusted Valvoline ATF+4 and the OEM. I have read in depth the specification sheets of base stock oils for others claiming compatability but they do not seem to hold up as they may use a lesser base stock and simply add more additives. I've got a few 250k mile original transmissions from chrysler just by frequently changing the fluid with ATF+4. Thanks for the great video series as your knowledge of transmissions and fluids is spectacular. These go to show that you can't grab just any fluid off the shelf and there is no such thing as "life time fluid".
Great examples and feedback. Thank you!
hello professor !!! )
Hello!
PowerFlite was not in the 1953 model year. It was introduced mid-year in 1954. It uses a torque converter not a fluid coupling. Likewise the remarkably similar three speed version, TorqueFlite, was introduced mid-year in 1956.
Thanks for your feedback, I have 1953 manuals for it, but that could easily be for a mid year 1954. Good to know, Thank you.
Great Video......does MS stands for Military-Standard ?
Thank you, good question! Maybe Mopar Standard? I do not know
@@WeberAuto MS = Material Specification
@@CarlstromVideo Thank you!
Those cans are worth some money
8/9 speed "life time" fluid: FCA like each automaker does their own durability testing. So it is clear the fluid passed FCA testing for the full rated life of the vehicle, probably 10 years / 150,000 miles. Useage patterns in the USA are milder than in Germany.
Thanks for your feedback
"Lifetime" just means the life of the vehicle's lease term which is usually 3 yrs.
LOL, probably
Amazingly enough, you say that the M5 Fluid Coupling shared the same oil with the transmission. This I believe from reading the S11 DeSoto workshop manual the Fluid Flywheel and Gearbox use WD10 oil. The the mechanics all think it is Dexron II and a restorer of an S11 DeSoto is using Dexron oil in the fluid flywheel coupling. I do not know what he is using in his gearbox. I am sure there are a lot of mechanics and vehicle restorers who are confused about what oil should be used as I understand that the WD10 oil is not obtainable.
17:28 czcams.com/video/C14dcjtL0Oc/video.html
People liked to blame that on the Partridge Family "Moby Dick" episode. I remember hearing stories of coolant mixing with the antifreeze in mid-1970s Buicks, causing the engine to overheat and the transmission to fail. I guess it took a while to protect the cooler from corrosion without the whale oil; I wonder if any owners just resorted to separate transmission coolers to keep it from happening again.
Chrysler was sooooo far ahead of the others!.
9-speed ZF appeared first in 2014 Jeep Cherokee only, no other FCA or other automaker vehicles.
Thanks for your feedback. Honda and Acura use the same transmission
@@WeberAuto Others use the ZF 9-speed design now, but not in 2014. Jeep was alone in 2014. Also each automaker customizes the transmission design, mostly software, but there can be materials differences chosen by the customer carmaker.
ate-2 is it in a black bottle wight~ label with blue/back lettering~ ??
because i might make your day as the prior owner of my 2-gen charger had a case of different really old bottles of atf in the trunk and i think it's pre-1997 but most likely after 1973-76~ and its factory sealed ( i have not looked at my stash in awhile ) i think he was going to install a b&m shift kit in the 1985-94~ but never did as by my evidence i can see and the last tag=sep/97or8 July of the same year was last found insurance card i saw of his ownership .
anyways i can't use it now because someone else distorted by water ~ flooding my 1970~ 727 non lock-up transmission recently and i have modern gm 7speed 2006 up manual transmission style parts to replace it with
ps. i go to the logan cruise in logan ut usa omost every year so that might give you a idea of how far away from Weber i im
and yes if its the right bottle you can have it because it has no use by me it just going to take up my shelf space being useless with you at-lest you can use it as a teaching tool :)
Thanks for your feedback, I would love to either have it or have photos of the front or rear of it. Please email me at jkelly1@weber.edu and we can make arrangements.
@@WeberAuto sorry jonn i tried quickly looking ( win i got the chance from the snow melting / " weekend " ) for it on my shelfs and in the box i though it was in ( i did find 2 of the b&M bottles of the same time period im pretty sure I should have more than one genuine bottle of "dealership stuff" ) and didn't see it so i guess i will have to do some " shop cleaning " out to find it i will try to keep you posted if i find it
in the video you kinda said you haven't done anything yet with 3-speed mopar automatic transmissions and mite be interested to ( mostly because mopar used some valerian of the same ish transmission setup for so long ) and id be willing to freely lend for extended time period / or sell my 727 ( it should work on a dynamometer test one or too times with low loads it currently has sub-50-70k mileage and haven't tried using it recently so that just a theory but it technically died from some unknown fluid being pored in aka classic looking milkshake in everything including my engine apound trying to go through my start up check lists resonantly that i found it, and wasn't hookup to the transmission cooling system as i had it bypassed temporary to drive it at the time of removal that's win i saw it and drained out all of the old fluid / pan / torque converter but it wasn't running that way or tried out with " milkshake " and was in long-term storage win i parked my car last time it was in " mint " aka fine working condition with no apparent problems / with no milkshake and im not planning on replacing any 727 parts as i don't trust it currently 1/1/2019 for longer trips uphills / medium-high loads nor-im i expecting any one else to as i have a modern crate /dropout 6/7-speed manual transmission that's replacing it as someone else with more current pricing / case usage experience than me recommend to do so in my usage case ) to education and or student practise if you what to
my phone number is 1-435-232-8290 if i end-up missing your call you can leave a message and reference youtube mopar transmissions or text me as i have a harder time trying to find anything in my email box and i ended up having a hard time longing into it / i typically don't check it that often not trying to be a pain if anything i trying to pay it forward as the old saying goes for the younger generation 😊
@@richardprice5978 Thank you, I have not shot any videos on older Chrysler transmissions yet. I have so many ideas for cool video projects, but never enough time to get them all done.
Hello, it's a pleasure to meet you. Can you give me a copy of this magazine for me. I now is restaurating a Desoto fluid drive 1946 crysler car. I have some doubts in respect this charge system. If you can help me iam gratiful. Thank you and best regards.
I have video for to watch on CZcams.
BMW uses ZF transmissions and BMW say lifetime fluid but lifetime to them is if the trans last 150k miles then that’s the life
Thanks for the feedback, funny how that works.
Sciatl - use common sense bro
I know I went to The BMW dealer to buy AFT fluid to do a transmission service I did buy some but they were given me a hard time saying you don’t need to change the fluid but I showed them the ZF service information and they did not like that if they want there transmission to fail
Just founf this article on wikipedia and there is a picture of ATF +3
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mopar_Automatic_Transmission_Fluid
Does someone knew, what causes this awfull smell of Transmission oils ?
I mean, no motoroil have this.
In Sommer, I drained the green oil of my ZF8-HP70 Dodge Challenger .....it was still clear and green but smelled like an Diffoil from my BMW E30, Hypoid.
asian now the largest trans com. in the world coming up when? thanks for another lesson
Coming in a few more days, thank you
@@WeberAuto just retired at 65 became allergic to oils never wore gloves now i get a rash all over my arms but still thirsty for knowledge
@@juanrodriguez-ry6yt aisin
So Chrysler invented the dct dual clutch transmission in 1938
No, it has a fluid coupling with a clutch attached between it and the single transmission input shaft.
My father had a 1970 Dodge 15 passenger van,
The trans dipstick called for (stamped on the
dipstick) Dextron II. 318 engine, A-727 trans.
steve
Yea me again Blah Blah Blah sorry.... So We have a 2008 Subaru with the 4EAT. I used the Valvoline Maxlife ATF fluid that said would replace the HP Subaru fluid. After the change the shifts. slammed in to gear, ran hot and became un-driveable real quick. According to Advance Auto this should have worked. I called Valvoline and they said that the transmission had to relearn because of the different properties of there fluid and to disconnect the battery for 10 minutes at least. I disconnected the battery overnight and had the same result the next day. I flushed thru 10 quarts of Subaru HP fluid. The problem went away and worked perfectly after that. I'm sure years of life were lost because of this event. Never again... OEM or OEM manufacturer fluid only for my tranny, I now use Idemitso as they make Subaru $70.00 a case of 12 on ebay. Johns right dont mess around even with the quick lube places. I have a story there but perhaps another time. I probably wore out my welcome on this video. Peace
Excellent example and feedback, thank you!
I'm writing all this down. This is very important info. Thank you for taking the time to tell us about all of this. My opinion is that the world is a jungle and that everything is a lie. DON'T BELIEVE A SINGLE THING. Report back when you feel the need.
@@alext9067 Alex. it is a jungle out there. I always was for the little guy trying to make a living as a mechanic. Things used to be simple. Aftermarket parts are made in mexico China Singapore India, Fill in the blank.One is never sure of aftermarket quality parts. everyone wants to make it cheaper Fluid company's make claims Those claims are sometimes not tested using OEM methods as in my case with this fluid. Subaru 4EATS are very particular about the oil viscosity they like. So More and More I am getting OEM junk yard parts or paying double for OEM and forgetting the problem for another 100000 or what ever mileage over aftermarket. Auto dealers dont do a better job typically with a repair but in Most cases use OEM parts (NOT ALWAYS BE CAREFUL HERE). A Johnny around the corner auto salon will usually use aftermarket but more and more I hear are just going OEM. A friends brother sold his garage in NY and now does Sprinkler installations in FL for this very reason. Parts were junk and the OEM dealers would make obtainable information scarce and offer little to no discount on OEM parts. and one can eat some labor time but with the taxable income and rent? Forget it. Its near impossible to make the money one needs. I do almost all my repairs and have been in the appliance repair field (on was in) for years. After market parts have charged drastically in every field . Most are sub par, Not just the no name brands either. All of them
I ran Valvoline Max Life Dex III years back in a Buick, and experienced the same issues you listed. Drained it out and replaced with Castrol Dex III and the problem went away immediately. I'm leery of using Max Life in anything again.
@@RockandrollNegro Marvin, I think Valvoline is a poor product line to be using in any application. I remember using it in my motorcycle and the trans would overheat and not shift smoothly. I switched to Castrol and problem gone.
I know this is an aside, but keep that in mind.
Ever since first the German's and now the Italians have bought Chrysler is has been saddled with their junk parts from engines, transmissions, electrical systems.
The latest being Fiat's junky Multiaire system on their engines hooked up to Fiat our Germany's automatic transmissions that are hard and expensive to service.
Why, on god's green earth, would there be a need for a 9 speed trans? If an ICE needs to stay at that narrow a power band put an electric motor in there and go home. This is nuts.
Thanks for your feedback
dont crank volume so high, no need
Thanks for your feedback