Should I get an arts degree? Some advice I wish I had understood
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- čas přidán 18. 03. 2014
- A discussion on the "value" of an arts degree. I usually promote caution when people are curious about majoring in the arts, mostly because of my own experiences.
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I dont know what to do with my life anymore...
Same :(
Me too 😔
Do something that you like and that you know you can make money from
I’m lost at age 18 :/
get money and do what you want
My mum was told not to do art at uni although she wanted to so instead she took a science degree that then led onto teaching. She is now a professional artist and regrets not doing an art degree because she says she’d love to be an art teacher. There’s loads of art degrees that can lead onto good jobs: graphic design, architecture, animation, media. Don’t stop your passion, just be sensible about the choice of you creative degree.
Im scared
As someone who has been struggling with the idea of having a career outside the arts industry, this video hit the nail on the head. It also just so happens that I am in multiple black metal bands, so I'm aware how unlikely it is that I can support myself on my "art" alone. This video has served as a reminder that I'm not necessarily giving up on my passion to create just because I'm in a more practical career field. Thank you.
Thanks for watching! Keep up the dark grind!
@@DVSPress never give up and never surrender! thanks dave good content friend. finally someone with some common sense.
yea common sense is an oxymoron unfortunately
I wish my friend could have seen this.
He had a vague dream of being a famous painter, he got his MFA from an expensive art school, and then the real world happened:
He took crappy jobs to pay the bills while constantly hustling to get shows and network with the right folks. He survived layoffs, and cuts in pay at various places. Eventually, in his late 30s, student loan debt made it necessary for him to move back in with his parents. At 43 years old he was diagnosed with cancer, and died at the age of 44 ... living at home with his parents.
When he and I would talk, an issue was always the heavy weight of the loans from his BFA and MFA. I just wonder what kind of life he could have lived for 44 years if he wasn't swallowed up in student loan debt from an art degree?
+Oz du Soleil That's a very sad story, but one that is very common. They pass out these student loans in massive amounts to people who are 18 years old and don't really have enough information or experience to make such big financial decisions. College is a product just like any other, and lots of people over the last 15 years have been sold something of far lower value than they were led to believe. It's really important that we educate the next generation to weigh that decision more carefully.
Sorry to hear about your friend. Unfortunately, being a painter is a profession that has a very low value to employers. Would teaching painting have value. Maybe so. Your passion does not pay the bills. I'm not downplaying anybody with talent. I'm just saying have realistic expectations. I chose to become an audiorecording engineer after dealing with the setbacks of playing in a mediocre band.
My father wanted to be a poet/writer, but he was smart enough to realize that most people in that field become hobos and street bums if they don't make a huge profit from it. He realized the Air Force was the best option for him back in the 80s. His military experience and degree in sports medicine carries him to this day.
so in america ur parents dont pay for ur degree? and whats wrong with staying with ur parents its completely normal in asia
isn't it true that in Asia kids tend to stay with their parents even after theyre married?
just curious cause I read it in a sociology book.
I opted to take a BA in music because I want to increase my abilities in music, rather than buff my resume.
I've been making a living as an artist for 30 years. I never got a degree. I work with some much more successful people than myself who never went to art school and only have a high school diploma. Not once was I ever asked about a degree. It was my portfolio that got me the job. The ONLY reason to get an art degree is so you can teach.
Amen. In the music world it is your audition that counts.
I've never regretted my English literature degree, even though I ended up as an airline pilot. The BA is an education - if done right it teaches you how to think. Everything else is just training for a job. (I have an engineering degree too) I think you'll come to appreciate your BA more as you get older.
My point is that relative to other majors, which convey certification elements to the market, arts degrees are usually not the best investment for most. So I'm making an argument for value to the market, not to one's self. From my perspective now (hindsight is always 20/20), choosing a more technical field for the BA and MA probably would have yielded more income potential with the same amount of effort, and achieving success in art would have been no more or less difficult. As far as teaching me to think, I'm not sure a technical field would have given me less critical skills than music (which I actually consider highly dogmatic in the academic realm), though you might make that case comparing philosophy and literature degrees. Thanks so much for watching!
I would posit that you are satisfied with your English degree largely because you also studied engineering and became a pilot. If you had only studied English, would you have been as successful? Yours is really an argument to MINOR in English and/or take many English electives.
Hey Michael, I know your comment is bit dated, but I want to know what does it take to become a pilot. Especially for one with barely an engineering experience.
WOW ...English degree to airline pilot...holy crap....im really laughing, and you're still defending it. You degree should of been in a technical area right from the start...maybe EMS, Doctor, somthing high pressure
@@zochbuppet448 Did you not read his comment? He pointed to the fact that even know he didn't use his BA for piloting, he values it because it taught something he needed for life, not just for his education.
you deserve more publicity. your videos are tremendously helpful to me.
Thank you!
I'm a artist and writer and choosing not to get a degree because now that i have clear goals with both fields, I'd rather spend my time and energy improving each craft daily, and utilizing free information rather than working on unrelated assignments or taking unrelated classes to meet the requirements. It's a lot of pressure because I have to be responsibile for putting in the work even when i don't feel like it, but having clear defined goals and daily tasks makes it SO much more manageable, because for years I was in this vague boat of "I like art and writing but don't know what I want to do with it"
How it's going?
You also have really good advice about taking on art/music as a profession--not just as an education choice. As a bassist, I considered going professional but it took a few years and a few bands to let go of that idea.
WOAH! I hated playing jazz. HATED it. And I eventually got tired of playing rock and blues. I grew up listening to funk and disco and have never been in such a band with the opportunity to express what's in my soul.
My ONE skill (as you wonderfully urge folks to focus on) is Microsoft Excel and fortunately I don't have to play jazz tunes to pay the bills. LOL!
I perfectly understand your argument and feelings about getting an art degree. I have a bachelors and masters in CG. I wish someone would have given me this advice years ago. At the same time I do cherish my training and I needed that to do what I do now. The life is a double-edged sword and a fine tight-rope to walk. But most kids don't know what they are getting into. I teach full time at an arts conservatory/ high school and I pretty much advocate for %99 of them to not get a degree in performance. I try and steer them towards tech, business, film score composition, or even music therapy.
i wish i had a teach like you or the person in the video tell me this years ago. sadly, being the dumb kid that i was, i probably wouldnt have listened. it only takes one kid/person though ...
Wow this hit so many crucial questions. Amazing general advice. Thank you!
+Adrian Gaede Thanks so much for watching! Glad I could provide insight.
Dropped out of art hs third year in, best thing i did. Worked at a hardware store and apprentice in home repair.
Gteat video! I have a couple up about why I loved my art degree and my humanities degree. I think its great that we can have so many open conversations as artists on YT! Keep making your art vids!
The art community is so important!
Felicia Follum Thanks for watching! I enjoyed tremendously my degrees as well.
Great!
This video has been very helpful.. thank you for sharing your experiences with us
Thank you for your advice! So true. It also has more cred coming from someone who actually has an arts degree.
I would guess that many of the best artists have even less education than most, because they spent their time practicing their art rather than attending school.
I also think something like welding would be great as a main source of income for an artist. It's not art, but someone with an artist's eye would most likely produce the finest of welds.
Thanks for stopping by!
so you have to be something others want you to be
benjamin massie That's true for pretty much anything where you interact with other humans. You have customers on some level in every business, you have to provide the service they want or they won't give you their money, which means you can't buy anyone else's services. This is why I advocate getting a more "valuable" degree when pursuing music (or any art). That way, your art isn't depending on what others want it to be - it can be exactly what you want as long as you are happy doing something else to pay the bills (which you will have to for a time even if you want to create highly marketable art). Lastly, you are not your job - your self identity is whatever you choose to make it and working for someone else doesn't degrade you. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Thank you for these nuggets of wisdom! I am on the fence because I am in the field of psych / social work, but was a photo minor. My arts dream feels somewhat unfulfilled, but I still dabble in photo / video / painting. I felt that if I gained academic knowledge it would be easier to develop my own style and I wouldn’t have to rely so much on the internet to lowkey dictate my skills.
thanks Dave you're right on the money I can see by your circle on your head that you paid some prices and in some places. Wish I could have the money back that I spent on my MBA but it was old-school kind of stuff and that's what we were told to do to get ahead. Ironically most of the people that I know I got in the head just had a BS and that's all. Didn't see that you had some left hand right hand exercises. I'm coming back from brain cancer which I'm sure you can relate to at least medically you can relate to having issues and trying to make the most of the opportunity so appreciate it very much you're right on the money buddy take care
You are ignoring something very important. Universities and colleges are NOT job training programs. They exist for education. There is a big difference between the two. Want to become educated? Go to a university. Want to learn a skill? Go to a trade school or community college.
Thanks for wathing, but I'm not forgetting anything. Most people go a University with the expectation that it will assist them in procuring better employment. This is me dismissing that illusion. The value proposition is very important as most people as most people don't have an extra couple of hundred thousand dollars and 4-6 years to spend on something that won't give them tangible benefits.
As far as "education" goes (which is a nebulous term), universities don't do a good job of it nowadays. Philosophy, the basis of human understanding of reality, isn't even required in most modern university programs. You'd be better off with a reading list if you actually wanted to have knowledge, be able to think critically, and understand the nature of reality.
Even if you think Universities exist to provide "education" (hint - they don't exist to produce education; education is produced jointly with research, entertainment, and athletics) and they actually do so, you would still be wise to heed my advice and get a degree in something that provides meaningful certification. You would get your education along with something that provides information to the market.
That you called education "nebulous" just shows that you were not educated at all. Glad you are doing what you are doing and enjoying it, there is nothing better but stop giving out advice when you lack understanding about the subject matter.
If you want to be educated go to a university and put in the effort. Otherwise you are wasting your time.
Again, universities are not a job training program and anyone approaching it as such are wasting their time and money.
Not an argument.
Nurse, Doctor, Vet, Computer Programmer, Accountant, Scientist, Dentist, Lawyer, Physiotherapist, Nutritionist...I could go on. These are all careers that Universities will directly train you for. Saying that they won't train you for jobs is just plain false.
please listen to what he is saying...most of us arts people know what he is saying especially fine arts.
He also specifically outlines what you can do if you are still interested in this type of degree or education and what you will have to do to get a real job as we are told
Dave Stewart wish I could play as well see but you seem to be doing pretty well. Will tend to use the rule of 3 if I can find three people I can give me good information about something like going back to school then that's a pretty good cross-section. Would have learned more if I have gone down to the store and bought a bunch of the for dummies books which I'm sure you can understand
I understand your point. There's a lawyer in Toronto whose a jazz singer by night. I did a BA in German language and literature, then a MLIS library degree to get credentials, then they closed down libraries! Your right that one needs to plan out one's path.
I believe that Marc Teicholz, a concert guitarist and csu East Bay faculty member has a law degree, but was able to make classical guitar his livelihood. He's a fantastic Bach interpreter.
David Stewart Bach is the best in my books, anyway! hehe As for jobs, you can get credentials as a software developer but even these highly technical jobs are so easily outsourced you're toast by the time you've finished school and out on the workforce. Indeed, not every case, but we're living in "iffy times" as I say. We're living a Woody Allen movie of the future!
Most higher art education yields so little while asking for so much to attend. It's important to go to fields with higher yields(UI/UX, VFX, not sure what other fields are outside visual communication) and specialized schools than to pick a dead end major or an unknown art school.
There's a huge demand for hybrid artists atm. Such as half engineers/designer.
This guy gets it, you need to have a technical background as a artist these days....engineers/designer, best to learn the technical stuff too like programming and computer science with design
I'm currently studying a social work-degree, and I like studying it, plus it is guaranteed to get me a well-paid job when I graduate. However, since music is still my ultimate passion I'm kinda dreaming of switching schools and applying for a music degree (majoring music theory & composing). But then again, the other route would be to just continue studying music theory/composition by myself, like I've done for a year now, and maybe take some music-courses and private lessons here and there. My goal is to become a full-time composer (ideally independent composer, but I'd be fine doing music for films and video games as well), and the reason why I'd like to go for a school for music is because I want to explore as much as I can about the art of composing music, and to do it in the most motivated company possible.
Any wise words of advice? This video helped me a lot to look things in a more realistic way, but I'm still confused, because I don't want to regret my choice of going/not going for a music degree in the future.
I couldn't agree more! There are so many online tutorials and videos that deal with most aspects, principles, and step-by-step processes of certain types of art that can be had at either a minimal cost or no cost at all! Nowadays, most companies aren't going to ask where you obtained your knowledge from insomuch as whether you have it and how you go about utilizing it ...Even the dreaded "Art History" (which has been ALWAYS a requirement in 50% of the art majors) can be fully referenced on the internet for free! $ave your damn money for something else, and learn at your own leisure, already!
Im thinking of doing an art degree with the thought of going to Law School. As with medical school, one can pick any major ij reality but with law school theres no course prereqs per se so theres no pressue for any particular program. Just make sure you can read, write, have good logic and argumentation, etc. Although oddly enough I saw a surprising amount of Art Therapy jobs on Linkedin today.
Here in mexico getting a music degree is cheap (there are some expensive music school but aren't worth it) but it's market value it's very low, you'd get more money by playing in the streets rather than getting to perform a classical guitar concert.
Really appreciate this video. Came across your channel for classical guitar videos, saw your video explaining why you don’t make those anymore, and then found this. Thank for you for the full person you put on your channel and the breadth of free content you’ve made for those of us that came after
To add a bit more to Dave's fine advice. Doing art is not an intellectual activity and going to a university the approach of the teachers, if they actually do any art, will be way too heady. You are better off, for example, if you want to be an artist or sculptor, to think of yourself as an object maker or a person that does paintings. Do not get caught up in the "box" of academia, so close minded and yet know virtually nothing really about what the spirit of art is all about. Desire and passion, not intellectual crap which deadens the spirt Go forth!
really helpful thank you
I didn't even finish my a levels and I have been published, another story published soon. Agent wants me to write a novel. I am not bragging, just pointing out that a combination of putting the effort into the craft and getting a bit lucky is all you need in any art.
Arts degrees, like most degrees that aren't in the hard sciences, engineering, medicine, chemistry, computer programming or a trade, just aren't worth doing.
For a while I felt left behind not having a degree as my two sisters both have one but since being published I have realised I am ahead of many people who have literacy degrees (I even have a cousin with one, not helped her at all).
Ignore the people who tell you you need a degree, universities are all about churning out compliant marxist drones nowadays anyway. Practice your art, get lessons from others, analyse the work of others and be the best in your art you can be.
My daughter wants to major in theater arts ,drama,stage plays, movies what classes did you take to achieve your degree? Please help
I am almost done with my BFA in Graphic Arts and there is so much pressure from faculty and peers to pursue a masters. And they are treating our recent alumni who got into programs like idols to look up to. And basically saying that you are not a serious artist if you are not pursuing an MFA. I don't want to go to an MFA because of money, and I don't want to move states to get into one with funding, but I AM scared that I wont fit into the social circles needed to network as an artist if I don't have an MFA.
Here is wheat makes somebody a serious artist:
*She creates art*
Who is your market? Other artists? *NO* You aren't networking with your market, you are networking with your _competition._ They aren't going to pay you a damn dime to make art, and I highly doubt any of them would ever pass on whatever scarce work they drum up.
I've met more people I can count who have gotten a high level degree, never produce a piece of art after graduate school and do nothing but bitch about bad their life turned out.
What do you think it's worth to you? Be realistic - do you want to have a few hundred thousand dollars worth of debt to fit in with other artists who aren't your customers? I highly suggest you see what Noah Bradley (a very well-known concept artist and painter in my circles) has to say about art school.
Link me your portfolio and you will be networking with somebody who actually might hire you do create something.
Also, social circles should revolve around values, not professions and interests. When you get older you will probably realize you don't have much in common with your peers besides your major. That was my experience, at least.
Wow thank you for your quick and insightful response! It is such a relief to hear a professional have this point of view. I definitely was looking into grad school simply because the faculty (who I really do respect) was telling me I had to, but it didn't feel right! You have certainly given some validation to those apprehensions I am having about putting so much money and work into the application itself.
Also, I had class all day and work all night, but I will definitely look up Noah Bradley and send you my portfolio tomorrow!! Thanks for the encouragement!
OMG...an MFA is wasting even more time....they are even more worthless...yes Iève seen the MFA grow into trendiness
Would this also apply to an arts or illustration career
Thank you much!
+i90sknd Thanks for watching!
yea i made the mistake of majoring in illustration.. was basically just to build a portfolio which i could have done on my own. by myself
same with game dev and programming. even elon musk says hed hire a high school drop out over a college degree anyday if you can prove what obstacles you've overcome.
So useful thank you so much
Obviously a piece of paper isn't gonna get u hired but rather your skillset will however from my experience getting a degree is the most effective and surefire way of building the skills that you will need in order to pursue a career in the arts. In the case of acting which is my passion and what im currently going to college for than having experience performing is paramount if you're trying to improve which college creates the perfect environment for. Not just that but it also allows you to network with other people which is arguably paramount in the entertainment world if you want to pursue a career. Idk how it is with writing but I take that its impressively similar , you've gotta have organizational , researching as well as communication skills and on top of that will allow you to network with other writers.
This is very helpful for me going into community college now
This is very good advice. Question is just how much you are driven by your passion? Do you have to do it? That's first. Value is next. Can you make anything from it? If you absolutely must do it, then you have to deal with the mundane problem of maximizing money and minimizing expense to create time to create. They don't tell artists this but Low Overhead is the way to go. What the video is really talking about is protecting your creative juice and talent.
I really want to go into scenic and costume design for film and stage, but I'm not sure if getting my degree in those things would help or not. I'm supposed to start applying to schools in the fall.
I think if you actually did it instead of investing in college you would get better results. Make a portfolio website and build your skills on your own
It’s a shame that arts degrees are looked down upon because they’re irrelevant. A world without art would be sad. Meanwhile, STEM and business are looked up upon even when a lot of those people with those degrees have miserable lives.
No. We need stem jobs for our day to day lives to survive, we don’t need art. Art is like entertainment.
Your comment implies that the STEM and business degrees are the reason why those people lead miserable lives. Pretty sure that's not the case. In fact one could argue that at least some art grads are miserable because they have financial trouble caused in part due to their choice of major, while the same cannot be said about stem people.
Art isn’t irrelevant. Degrees related to art are. Art is very important.
Thank you so much for making this video David! I am an Art major, jewellery design to be specific. I am doing a pre-Master course right now and its almost finished, my next step is either stop and do another course which offers me a very valuable CAD/CAM certificate or continue with the Master. I am torn between these two... The reasons why I don't want to continue my Master is that this is not my dream school and the location is not very nice, and to be honest, there is no reasons why I should get two Masters in the same field just because I want to go to another school.
All of my families and some of my friends said I should just do the Master, because its just 1yr and I am already qualified. I understand that having a Master degree is beneficial in my case, because I decided to change from music to design after my BA(though I LOVE music still, but I don't want to make money with it). Its quite hard to break my words to my parents (you might already know how some asian parents are when their children stands a different opinion to them, although mine are very loving and supportive, but still very opinionated and strict), all they want is for me to get the education part done then start working.
Would be great to have your advice. Thanks, Hanna
Tell your parents that the CAD certification has greater market value, and that a master's degree has little or no market value, and there is a great opportunity and financial cost associated with finishing something of low value (that is, if the certification that is an MA isn't required for your field. I don't know jewelry design very much, but my guess is that if you were to sell your designs or your jewelry they would sink or float based on their quality, not your degree). Your parents probably want to hear the *security* part of an argument, and "master's degree" sounds secure. Alas, in 2017 college degrees are of diminishing value relative to other things, including opportunity spent doing business.
As a musician I was definitely a businessmen, and I am as an author as well. I think if you are confident with your design skills your time would be best spent developing a bit of a portfolio (not sure how it works with jewelry), trying to sell some products, and of course looking into CAD since being great with solidworks would only enhance your market value and give you more tools to make great designs for customers.
Spend a year building your platform and pursue whatever certification is going to make your end product better is what I would do. Tell your parents that whatever you decide is creating the greatest market value for you and will make you more money when you are done.
David Stewart thanks a lot David for the swift response! I will think it through
Hanna Ho, I have been an artist and designer for 40 years, including jewelry.I have had many businesses and this is what I wish I had done because I would have had more options. First: take the cad class...you can't be an artist/designer these days without it.
There weren't computers when I was going to school, and not knowing Cad, etc in later years has stopped me from some very good opportunities.
Secondly, I wish I had gone for the MFA because I could have taught, and at some point in your life, you may want to do that. An MA, MFA, allows you to teach at the college level if you wish.
Do both of these and you'll be much more secure in the future. Any business, art or not, requires a set of skills and drive that cannot be taught in school, although there is a great deal of helpful information out there that you can choose from.
David makes good points relayed to your goals NOW, but thinking for the unknown future is also important. You may branch out beyond jewelry. In fact, you will.
CHOICE is the keyword. Knowing Cad, etc., will free your choosing process, as well having a teaching degree. As an artist, as many tools connected to opportunities is what is necessary, that and a visionary eye.
Wait a second
This is not right: I've done a bachelor's and a master's in Classical Singing and I was hired as a music teacher based on it. Also, I learned vocal technique in the University and that helped me pass the audition for the National Choir. I couldn't have done any of this without my Degree. So I'm really disappointed with your video.
So this video is completely focusing on the negative aspect. As if you're already a bad student who's not into studies.
If you get into arts school, that means you got talent and you'll be successful. PERIOD.
Got talent? Yes. Be successful? Not quite... I know plenty of musicians with a Masters, some with a PHD, and have been looking for a steady job for years with no success. The jobs like you are talking about are few and far between, and there are nowhere near enough music careers being created to match the number of graduates coming out. Independent artists struggle to find consistent gigs that earn enough to pay bills. I think a lot of this was explained pretty well in the video. I'm surprised that, as a musician, you are so blind to what it is like for most other musicians. You seem to have been successful, which I congratulate you, but talk to some other musicians about the reality of their life. You will see what he's talking about.
zach nies I see
Well then I guess it’s quite hard. Yes, if I think about it, some arts struggle a lot, but then I figured out that arts are not so ... useful ... to us in the end. I mean, they are, but not like the banking or medicine.
I can see this especially now, when the pandemic hits so hard, we rely on healthcare staff and wouldn’t really be serious to consider artists to help out unless they want to converttheir skills to help hospitals, at least temporarily.
@@zachnies13 but wait, I forgot to tell you:
In my first year of university, I worked as a real estate sales, then I was finally choir singer in my last 2 years, and then I thought I'll quit music and worked as a waiter for 2 years. Then, changed my mind, used my degree and teaching qualification and started to teach
So I mean, what do artists expect? To be on tour and famous? Sorry, but even the most talented artists in the history, barely made it.
Taking odd jobs it's ok until finally getting that art job.
I’m a pre-university student and I want to be a writer and publish novels. I prepare to choose arts degree because I think I can learn more about how to write, (my goal is JK Rowling-harry potter).but now i just so confused about should I take the arts degree? Because of that I don’t know what’s reason make her write that novel. Is that because she study arts or she just good at writing even not have that degree she can still write good novels.😮
It depends what the bachelors of arts degree is in. Work experience in conjunction with the BA can be very valuable . Any investment in education is worth it ! Will help one discover what they dont like perhaps or dive deeper into discovering /learning one's passion.
You're going to spend $x0,000 of post-tax, pre-interest money on a four year or more on a BA or MFA degree that will cost years of income that you didn't have while going to school. Or be stuck with student loans that you won't be able to duck repaying (because bankruptcy won't work). Gods forbid you're raising a family while doing this. So either hit the road and pay your dues the traditional way or do as I did: after an established professional career in a very different kind of work, I went back and got that degree. I am a jazz drummer but that's not how I pay the bills. I have to say, however, that music keeps me sane.
Hi David, I'd really like to hear your advice on my situation.
I wasted 4 years doing a soul-crushing Physics degree. I got ill towards the end and have been ill since. That was 5 years ago. I'm on the mend now(hopefully). Music has always been my passion but I have avoided studying it academically. Anyway I was lied to about the practicality of my physics degree and want to pursue music in some way but I'm not sure how to... I'm so behind in terms of skill, experience and knowledge than most first-day music students. I really want to get started on SOMETHING that will get the ball rolling in a musical direction... but don't know where to start : ( I eagerly await your advice!
Edit: Earning money in anyway from music is what I would consider success BUT I want whatever I do to improve my general music skill so I can focus on creating and marketing the music I really like. E.g. : I don't really like cocktail piano music but I think it'd be great to be playing it on cruise ships and would get me moving in musical circles... but at 26 my piano skill aren't great like I said :(
It's really hard for me to give advice about the business side of music these days because the music business in every facet is doing incredibly poorly - worse than ever, really. The only person I've ever known who made 100% of their money from performance for any given time was John Dolmayan, and he played in System of a Down, a multiplatinum rock band. Even then, he started creating and buying more businesses years ago with his earnings to diversify, knowing the train had to come in to station sooner or later. The reality for most pros in the business is that you will spend at least part of your time giving lessons or doing something else during the week because the performance market is absolutely brutal to try to work in, and it's gotten worse over the years.
There's a ton of reasons why, but the big one is that you are competing with recorded music, which is comparatively of no cost whatsoever. As a performer you really have to sell more than your music, which is really hard. I played as a solo guitarist, I charged a lot, and I only had to split the money with Uncle Sam, and I did better than almost anyone I've known that wasn't in the big leagues, and I still had to teach at two colleges and do lessons on the side be in the middle class. If you have a band and plan on touring, all I can say is good luck. People are jumping off this business in droves because of how hard it is to make a dime touring, and you can only make money touring since the retail market for recorded music has been eviscerated by the ever-evolving internet.
*THAT BEING SAID*
If you have a PASSION and care about getting YOUR music out there, and creating art that totally reflects your own ideals, than it has never been better to be a musician. It is incredibly cheap to get top-notch recording equipment compared to past ages, and the software now is amazing, making recording by yourself not only a possibility, but a huge advantage. There are also more ways to find an audience than ever before. All the skills needed to record or perform can be found on the internet for free.
Wit that in mind, I recommend you think in three-dimensional terms about exactly what you want to be in the musical world. Set about realizing that vision by finding the skills you need and investing time in perfecting them. Start buying equipment you will want to fulfill that vision. Work through a method book relevant to your interests. Don't bother with academic music. The teachers at a university will have you building a foundation for the castle your teachers think you ought to build, rather than the palace that is in your mind.
I studied physics for 2 years. Left heavy hearted leaving an offer to work under a research prof. Spent five years in criminal justice no return on investment. Now I found out I have a potentially good voice so I'm looking into that. Also.. Pro Wrestling
What I have just done ti my life, Got my degree today and u disappointed my 2 years in couple of minutes, I am so demotivated.
Sir, I was quite stubborn in my decision to get arts degree in English and as it happened I also am a good science student. I watched your video on the day when I got selected into an engineering college and also an art college and in the brevity of time I had to make a decision. Somehow I stumbled upon your video and reality struck me. Later I made the following conclusion: 1.An engineering degree will ensure a good employment.
2.Now the thing regarding interest- 'English' as you said it is not necessary for a writer to have an art degree. Many great writers didn't even have formal education, many were lawyers, scientists, inventors etc.
Before this video, as an eighteen-year-old, I loved living in a philosophical bubble of great virtues, thoughts but now it seems that it is necessary to have a pint of reality because when poked the fall will be inevitable. THANK YOU! your video made my decision less nebulous.
Thanks for watching, and I'm glad you found value with my input. Just as an addition: If you want to pursue writing (or any other art) you will do your best learning by doing. That's probably true for engineering as well, but I can't say for the other sciences.
You can also read all of my books at www.amazon.com/author/davidvandykestewart if you are interested in seeing what I've done since this video came out.
@@DVSPress One of the character in Moby Dick said that his Harvard and Yale was being a sailor.
I am trying to prevent my cousin from making a huge mistake studying a major in theater. She is going to dig herself in 48k debt to make 24k a year. This is ridiculous. I can help her become a doctor but not sure how to convince her.
You have a good bead.
Most actors won't make $24,000 in their lifetime from acting. whenever you see average incomes you have to remember that that includes the top 1% and in the world of the arts almost all of the wealth is concentrated in the top 1%. It really is winner take all and everybody else gets nothing.
Here's the thing though- a career in the arts, especially acting, does not require a degree, nor does a degree convey any specific benefits.
If you moved to LA or somewhere like that and just started busting your ass you'd have a much better shot at breaking 24K a year.
Great advice…but…what about if you suck at math ?
I wish I would’ve came across the video a couple years ago.
I’m into my last year of my BA which took 5 years because I transferred in from a community college and for my major I decided to go into Photography. I’ve come to realize that I should be doing a skill that’s more marketable like how you’ve stated because I cannot agree more as an artist but I’m debating whether I should stay a year or two more and work towards a minor or just finish my bachelor’s degree and be done with school.
Any suggestions? I’d greatly appreciate your input! 🙏🏻
I personally wouldn't bother with a minor. In most cases they certify nothing that anyone cares about.
But on the subject of Photography, have you started your business yet?
If I want to be a teacher should I pursue a Bachelors of Arts of Bachelors of Science?
+Ser Matthew Batson If you are teaching k-6 it doesn't matter. If you are doing 7-12 get a degree in the subject you wish to teach. Otherwise, consider a more technical certification, such as software engineering or economics to give yourself options. A liberal arts degree (or elementary ed) doesn't carry much weight in the wider business world. Teaching as a profession has a lot of turnover and lots of people leave it within 5 years, so if you have other options in case it doesn't work out that will only be a boon for you.
what's interesting is that when referring to the "arts", he mentions music, acting, or English(writing) but he never mentions the one art that is first referred to as "art" and that is "ART", as in the visual arts: painting, drawing, etc.
It used to be when one called themselves an "artist", it meant they make art; painting, etc.
A writer calls himself a writer, a musician calls themselves a musician and an actor calls themselves an actor.
A visual artist calls themselves an artist.
All of these require a certain degree of skill sets...music first, acting, second, writers, third, and art, last.
Music has many rules, almost methodical and exact as in learning classical music, which is mostly technique driven.
Acting has its methods.
Writing has its rules.
But when we are talking about creating something out of nothing..then we are talking about a visual experience in which all is coming from the imagination.Within this creation, there are various skills used when manipulating the medium. the actual experience, not always the outcome, is fulfilling.
Having given much time to all of these, except for acting, the visual arts have given to me the most creative experience; meditative, exploratory, spiritual.
Writing has been more intellectually challenging.
Learning to play an instrument and read music has been very technical, almost to the point of requiring little imagination but a very strong practice ethic. Composing would come closest to exploring imagination within the musical arts.
Learning to play an instrument well takes dedicated hours of practice more than talent. Although talent certainly helps.
Copying, learning to copy, relates to classical arts. Venturing out from there is where talent meets creativity.
I cannot think of too many rock/metal guys that have a music degree. Steve Vai does, the current lead guitarist of megadeth does from Co. University, and there are some Berkley dropouts. Other then that though, I cannot think of too many. Someone told me Brian May does, which is true but his degree is in astro physics.
I do not think any of those guys from Norway in black metal have music degrees, and some of those guys are super skilled.
It's skill that really speaks, not pieces of paper. You can learn some of those skills at college, but to assume college is necessary is right out, especially when it comes anything out of the typical "classical" mainstream. Black metal is immensely complex, but would probably not be recognized as such at most institutions.
So the basic point is being self taught is better than college at least when looking into art.
You could pay for all of your knowledge ad-hoc, not just self-learn, and spend far less than a university degree, do it in a shorter time frame, and probably get a better education all-around.
There are more options than "self-learn" and "get a university degree" - don't lock yourself into one mode of thinking.
I failed being an artist but discovered that I could work in the medical field and make a steady income. I also use my former art skills in the form of mastering Irish crochet and started turning them into antique replica garments. Straight art??? You are better off going to work for Disney doing animation. Doing art just because you like it isn't going to help you much at retirement because unless you pay taxes, you WON'T HAVE ENOUGHWORK CREDITS TO GET SOCIAL SECURITY
What majors and degrees do you recommend ?
+Shawn Afshar Anything that carries with it a meaningful certification of knowledge or skills that a given industry cares about. Engineering (any sort), mathematics, statistics, economics (better than a business degree if you want to get into finance), biology, computer programming, computer science, chemistry (which is actually extremely valuable), physics, nursing, speech pathology, etc. Degrees like English, art, and music have no value in their respective industries. That doesn't mean you learn nothing, it just mean that the degree has little or no market value. Engineering, on the other hand, conveys a certification that is necessary to the industry. Certain graduate degrees meet this criteria as well: MD, OD, DDS, JD (law degree), CPA (though that is test-based).
I recommend these over music not because I think my degree sucked or anything like that, just that education is an investment of both time and money, and should be treated as such. Degrees with a meaningful certification that is relevant to an industry are just a much better investment than any arts degree will be for the average person.
Little question, what makes chemistry specifically extremely valuable? I've always had a huge respect for the field of chemistry but the nitty gritty of it is way intense.
I'm considering getting an art degree, but I'm not so sure if I should go for it.
+Robert Aguilar Noah Bradley is a bit critical about art school. My suggestion is to weight the costs, including opportunity costs. Ultimately your arts degree isn't a meaningful certification, even if you learn meaningful skills, but you need to weigh the investment with the payoff. www.noahbradley.com/blog/how-to-be-an-artist-without-going-to-art-school/
you should if you want to flip burgers to pay off crushing debt
Brandon McCallum do you really need to get a bachelor degree for fine arts. I’m thinking about just getting an associates for fine arts and leave to learn from non academic schoolings (like college)
Would this include graphic design?
probably
Drawingsbyyuli A graphic design is usually separate from an arts degree. I believe graphic design would fall under visual communications degree.
Graphic design companies want and need people that are knowledgeable about using the necessary technology and programs as well and being knowledgeable about advertising and communications, a degree would help you get a job in this feild
Probably the best thing to do would be to go to a high school that specializes in the arts because if you get your education early then you won't have to worry about going to college. All college degrees are a colossal waste. I got my degree in education and my certification in teacher of the handicapped. However the job market for all teachers at all levels is so flooded that most people don't get jobs even after years of being a substitute. My passion is Punk so yeah :P
Idk, I was going to do music business but I think it might be worth it to invest in some kind of a computer science/computer engineering degree. I know it's a lot of high-level math, but when I can actually focus, I have done exceedingly well at the subject, and such a degree is probably very valuable in today's market. I don't know. I'm still kind of figuring it out. I would just hate to be stuck doing something that's meaningless to me, and I feel like there might be something down the CS/Computer Engineering rabbit hole that actually interests me. Of course, if I can make a living off of my music, I would prefer to do that, but like you said, it's best not to put all your eggs in one basket.
After a little bit of research, it seems Computer Engineering doesn't actually require math as much as it does logic, so that's good to hear.
I'm also considering being a linguist of some sort, probably a translator. I'm curious to see how well that pays.
history degree > arts degree
4:04 4:20 5:14 5:27 5:47 6:04 6:07 6:15 6:17 6:33 6:40 7:27
getting a skill set something other than music or whatever your art is
Why dont you have more likes and views.
Instead of MUSIC insert:
FINE ARTS/ VISUAL ARTS
FILM / PHOTOGRAPHY
THEATRE / DRAMA
ENGLISH / LITERATURE / LANGUAGES / LINGUISTICS
HISTORY
GEOGRAPHY (Applied practical geography might be okay)
SOCIOLOGY
and now
MOST SOCIAL SCIENCES AND HUMANITIES UNLESS they have some sort of practical application.
4:04 This had been kept a secret by most "fine arts" teacher forever. They are doing it but THEY NEVER EVER TELL STUDENT ABOUT THIS OR TO DO THIS, or that they will have to do it...most have a regal job...teaching.
If you still want to go ahead and still have a decent life and job. You have to get a "regular" job and your arts/ passion etc. thing will be something that you will probably have to do on the side or part time.
If you still do a regual arts degree make sure your minor adds up to a PRACTICAL CERTIFICATE IN A SPECIFIC AREA such as BUSINESS, programing web development, ....or something practical.
Why is this recommended to me now?
if only my gf would see the light and understand this mans message. time and cost. thank you
Thanks for the truth. My daughter just finished her first semester at AMDA. I just can't see her continuing and getting strapped and anchored to so much student debt in the end that she can't fulfill her dreams of being a singer and a dancer because she has work to pay off all that debt. To me AMDA/SCAMDA is a joke because they have these kids convinced that a degree from them is a sure ticket to Broadway.
What you're talking about is a "Fine Arts" degree. An arts degree implies a "Liberal Arts" degree. You should change your title.
Where I come from this is not the case. "Liberal Arts" is a degree option that is usually taken by elementary school teachers. I taught in the College of Arts, not the college of "Fine Arts."
David Stewart From what I understand, the majority of the western world distinguishes these two degrees in the way that I've mentioned. By that I mean the official terminology is to call one Liberal Arts, or Arts, and the other Fine Arts. A Bachelor of Arts necessarily means a Liberal Arts degree, and for that reason when we refer to an Art degree we are implying a Liberal Arts degree.
I clicked on your video assuming you were going to talk about a Liberal Arts degree. Anyways, where are you from?
In North America a fine arts degree is a liberal arts degree with studio courses
A degree in Arts isn't only for music. Lol 🤣 you can use it towards human resource management or accounting even preschool teachers have degrees in art. This guy is kind of negative follow your heart guys!
if you get a degree in business you will end up running someone elses busness for them as a maniger
benjamin massie One doesn't necessary flow from the other. If you want to be an entrepreneur, a business degree may provide some knowledge and skills for you, but isn't required. A large company may want someone with that degree, however. It's all relative.
Oh fuck. Lol. Hehe. No seriously it took me 2 semester as an art major to realize my art degree was a complete waste of money. I was literally sitting in my classes like dude. What the fuck am I learning. No one cares about this stuff at all!!! 🙄🙄 so I dropped out and continued school in I.T at a cheaper school. 😂😂😂👀 hopefully the it pays off. My major was in painting.... yeah nah.... that wasn’t gonna work for me.
When I judge outputs I'm convinced most University visual art programs don't teach art.
Thank you for making this video.
I feel a lot of people have a "buyers remorse" kind of vibe when they get their liberal arts degree and afraid to admit was a bad idea. They either blame the economy, student loans, or the employers. Not saying their arguments don't hold any weight but it's clear that getting a liberal arts degree won't make you a high valuable person to employ.
I appreciate your honesty in thoroughly explaining the importance of seeking employable degrees.
so why do these low paying jobs want you to have a education
benjamin massie Not sure what jobs you are talking about or what exactly "low paying" means to you. The why would be determined by whoever is offering the job. I will say that not all educations are the same, therefore not all educations have the same value to a given employer.
Get a real degree art welding electronics you either pick these things quickly naturally. Don't waste your future on one thing have back up plans
LOL no market value ≠ worthless?? 🤣😂🤣 Ok! It would have been great if I hadn't already received my worthless 'certification' to work my lovely underpaid retail job
Who is this guy? I don't agree. University is a whole experience not just the subject. You meet people on degrees surely? Esp. If you live in a backwater going nowhere fast town.
Nope. Please don't. Not straight art anyway. I spent most of my life on every facet of art. I attended art college to discover that advertising and graphic design were a practical way to earn money from art Longstory short, the best way to provide a steady income is either the medical profession(which I did ) or the legal field. This whole work for commissioning SUCKS! This is not the Rennaissance anymore. Nowadays we have cameras to portray people. In 2023,being a medical professional or an attorney is more realistic way to go
Terrrrible advice. I left college based on advice like this. Getting the degree connects you to a process, helps you discover things you wouldn't have studied gives you credibility as an instructor, helps you network with people who will become your future contacts. People who begrudge their degrees are typically the same ones whining there's no market for their art. Go study whatever is closest to who you are. Be true to that. Open doors you didn't know existed. This guys advice will land you working at Michael's for $10 an hour and forgetting that your an artist.
Work for a university do you?
@@treborschafer3945 no dick bag I don't
@@MercutiosswordYou do sound very educated. Bet the degree is working out for you.