What FFB is realistic for sim drifting? (2 to 20 Nm)
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- čas přidán 4. 06. 2024
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I tested sim drifting at different force feedback strengths from 2 Nm all the way up to 20 Nm using my direct drive wheelbase, combined with my years of experience drifting real cars, to lean which FFB strength was too weak and a waste of money, which range was good for sim enthusiasts on a limited budget, which is perfect for a sim drifting "forever purchase" and where FFB is too much and you end up paying for wheel strength that you don't actually need.
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00:00 Why the right FFB matters
01:09 Why you should listen to me
01:31 FFB requirements for sim drifting
05:27 Budget Wheels (Logitech and Thrustmaster)
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09:52 Midrange Direct Drive Wheels
11:27 Premium Direct Drive Wheels
14:07 Cost to Performance Considerations
16:15 Wheels for Console Drifters
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This video shows how much quiter nice DD wheels are compared to entry level gear drive wheels. My logitec G920 was so loud
My G25 was also mad loud compared to the T-GT2 I have these days. DD is even much more quiet than the belt driven T-GT2 I have. I really want Thrustmaster to make a DD base for Playstation dammit... I need it for GT7 in VR.
@@JimmyNuisancethe entry level fanatec dd wheels and pedals work for both ps4 and ps5, and theyre only 5nm so can still just mount it to a desk if you dont have a rig
Hey I’ve been thinking of getting this one with the extra 3 nm cable , do you think it’d be worth waiting a few more weeks to get or jumping straight away to the t300rs gt? I just want to be able to be satisfied and have a good enough feedback and immersing experience. I notice it’s almost double the price for the dd but also double the nm , could I please get your opinion?@@aguywhoplaysracinggames8607
I don’t know why people want 20nm wheels. It’s simply not realistic, at least for the driving I do (even F1 cars have power steering, but F2 doesn’t so idk). I do rally racing in real life and the sim and these cars all have power steering, you don’t need to fight the wheel with every fiber of your being, it’s should be quite easy actually. Depending on the game I might even turn my G Pro down to 4nm like in Dirt Rally and other times keep it up to 10nm in games like WRC10, because the game is definitely not using all 10nm, so there is some game to game difference vs real life as well. But the moral of the story here is you shouldn’t be fighting with your wheel, that does not add realism. Pick a NM that allows feedback to come thru and the wheel to self steer (at least in the case of DD wheels) while still being able to quickly manipulate the wheel yourself. If anything the biggest difference is between a cheaper belt driven wheel and a real DD wheel, that’s the biggest realism improvement you can give yourself.
cuz 21nm is funny
The new for 2024 F2 car does have power steering actually, so even that is off the table now.
Thanks, and props to you for doing rally driving in real life!
Mind if I ask whether you think Dirt Rally or WRC are realistic (damage simulation aside)?
@@UTubeSL Regardless, RBR is super easy to recommend. There are many, many real-life stages that are imo very well done by modders
And though there are some limitations, they've done well to give good logic to the game for rally car driving, and give you some options that you don't get in those games
Also, you are able to download different voice packs people have made, as well as edit your own pacenotes (or, as I prefer, download Luppis' collection of all his edited pacenotes). This matters because the default pacenotes are not consistent among all modders, and I found that distracting. Coveniently, there was a solution for it
Anyway, my point is I totally recommend RBR for the stages and feel of driving alone. Though the new games have advantages of their own of course
Do you think it's worth to go from g29 to t300 RS or save and go straight to moza r5?
One thing not mentioned here, but worth keeping in mind, is that you ideally want to be using any wheel at less than 100%. This is less of a specific issue with drifting but definitely something for grip driving, since when you're at 100% you can run into a lot of clipping - this is where the motor is operating at its maximum force and can't go further, so you lose all the fine detail from the feedback. You want to have 10-20% of headroom on your wheel to avoid this.
Sick seeing you drrive my speedsportz track on video! Great video idea and well executed!
REGARDING FANATEC: The base is what makes it compatible with Playstation. The wheel is what makes it compatible with Xbox.
So you can use the GT DD Pro/DD+/Extreme with an Xbox compatible wheel and, boom, you can play PC, Playstation and Xbox with the same rig. CSL DD/Clubsport DD will not work the other way around though so you'll be stuck with PC/Xbox only.
Product lines confuse me, so just to double check, if I wanted to have a mostly PC wheel with occasional GT7 on PS5:
Get something like DD+ (If I want 12~15nm), and any wheels (GT3, F1, Round wheel for drifting etc) and (Fanatec) pedals? and I should have no problems?
@@xTheEcO That's correct. Any Fanatec wheel/pedals with DD+ and you're good to go... When playing GT7 you'll plug ONE usb cable to the console because the wheel base acts as a periphery hub (RJ12 connectors) for pedals/handbrake. That's why you can't use a sweet handbrake from VNM (usb connector) when playing PS5 for instance. PC - no problem. And I guess you'll do most of the drifting on PC anyway..
Collective minds Drive hub fixes all that for $80
Even more of a reason to go with the DD pro. Interesting
Great work Kame Trick! Can see loads of time and effort went into this one. Great script, b-roll, images, and analysis based on your skills and experience!
And not a word about the fact that in the case of 4-6 nm bases, it will be necessary to turn their power to the limit (to achieve the power recommended in this video) and during long sessions at 100% they will overheat or break down faster. This is not yet a category of products where they are capable of large and long-term loads.
Well this is only a recommendation. While I am highly considering getting the fanatec dd pro as an upgrade from the g29. Doesnt mean that I will go out and make a blind purchase just because Ben recommended it, I have to do my own research.so yeah I understand the criticism as there are plenty of people that will do that without doing research on their own.
Yeah exactly. I'd much rather be running my expensive hardware well within its capacity rather than right on the limit every time
Excellent video, Ben. Fun and informational. Now I know what wheel to aim for next!
Great video! Production level through the roof, man!
Thrustmaster T300 RS GT was an absolute PERFECT wheel for me. 3 pedals, cool shifter, nice 1080°of rotation, great alcantara finish for the stitches, I loved that wheel.
I have some videos on my channel using it.
Then I took my driving license and swapped for a real wheel in an Opel Astra G from 2001.
I still miss my T300 and plan to buy a new one soon just for fun, also my daughter will learn to drive so she will need it for practice *(City Car Simulator is a MUST play for any new driver)
Wow Kame nice to see you upload another video! The production quality has gone up and you look so healthy glad to see !!
This is the definitive video for where to get started into sim drifting. Amazing job
I thought so aswell but arnt some wheel badrs peak torque ans sime constant rated torque?
@@mph2954 Yes, but the majority of wheel bases advertise their peak torque - not sustained torque. From personal experience, my Moza R9 (peak torque of 9nm) does everything I need for drifting, and is capable of maintaining a fast enough wheel speed even after a long play session. So according to KameTrick, having a wheelbase with either a peak or sustained torque between 8 - 12nm will give you a great drifting experience.
The definitive channel you mean. Kame trick really is hidden gold.
Tysm for this video I've been looking for a video like this for so long pls continue make more content like this
This is actually a pretty good explanation and tutorial! Good job! 👍🏻
Fantastic video! This explains the importance and the necessary strength of ffb perfectly!
A well needed video in the sim realm. Thanks for this video. I just upgraded from the logitech 27 to the logitech dd pro racing wheel. Can't wait to jump in
Very educational video. Thanks for all of these comparisons! Gonna have to upgrade from my TMX eventually lol
this is a great video! explained perfectly what I've felt with the g920 and later on with my t300rs, just got a used moza r5 and it's miles better, the force feedback isn't much stronger but the details make it so much better
I've been drifting for over 3y with a logitech g920 with a custom 32cm non deep-dish wheel, and I fully agree that 2.5nm is just not enough from a gear driven wheel. when im upgrading i wanted the moza r5, but im thinking about getting the r9 after seeing this video.
thanks for the great advice
Kame always has the best sim drift videos out there, god bless
the production quality is insane!! always great to see new videos keep it up!
Great video! This is one of the most informative sim racing buying guides I’ve ever seen. Thank you for the great content!
I appreciate that, thanks for taking the time to say so :)
Very informative and well-made video!
damn this video is mad good kame trick mad props dude
Thans for the nice video! Did you share your VRS / AC1 settings somewhere?
Is there a reason why you lead the cables of your VRS base upwards in your fov. Instead of leading these out to the side and letting the 90 degree angles point backwards?
Hey kame with another banger ... slide on man❤
You need to upload more . Your content is smooth .
Your pronaunciation of Tykkimäki, Kouvola was a OK. Was a bit confused that you suddenly said the name of my hometown. Anyway, thank you for the video, it was really helpful. Greetings from Kouvola, Finland!
Haha yeah, I love small and technical tracks, so I'm always on the looking for neat IRL venues from around the world! I'd love to visit and cut some laps there, someday :)
I have been sim drifting for 4 years on a cheap ass g920 in assetto and beamng, sims that are fairly hard to master and learn. And even tho i sometimes see the lack of information from my wheel, i learned to predict when the wheel is gonna underdeliver on the FFB and still was able to gain confidence in my driving and put togheter some nice tandems. Still i would love to get my hands on some nice DD rig. Lovely video:)
13:49 yoo that bicep
Exzellent Video ❤ Can you share your Settings for the VRS Base and in AC.
Very cool video and extremely useful!
Awesome vid, love it. 👌
Extremely useful video, thank you
great video quality upgrade ! 👍 looks very professionnal.
I use the csl dd with 5nm, feals similar to my irl 22 brz with electric steering, would say above 5nm would be great if you want to emulate hydraulic pumps.
Great video. I'm looking to upgrade my wheel soon since I'm using a g920 with an aftermarket wheel. It's not too bad but I have noticed it doesn't quite spin fast enough on certain cars and it does clip and shake a ton when ffb and centering force is cranked up to compensate but I've still had a blast on it since it's what got me into Sim drifting.
I started on a G923 and got mildly competent and when I got my DD wheel I instantly leveled up by a large degree. You can absolutely make it work on the lower end wheels but it's such a better experience with a belt drive or DD wheel.
@@gtrslngrchris ya I definitely want to upgrade. I only got the g920 because I got the wheel pedals and shifter used for $200 usd and it was like brand new and I didn't want to spend an arm and a leg just in case I didn't get that into it. Now I'm super into it and I've quickly found the limits of the g920 but I've been making it work as much as I can for the time being. I started on live for speed and then switched to assetto and beamng once I got my first gaming pc last summer.
thank you for making this video. Ive been sim driving casually (time attack and freeroaming mostly) for years now after I bought a g27 from my first wage ever and never bothered with another one. because it worked fine as far as I can tell with its 3NM. for normal grip driving i never felt that i needed more finesse and i got used to the "clankyness" of the wheel. of course in never drive real cars as close to the limit so the torge felt adaquite.
Ive always felt that its hard for me to control my drifts and always thought im just bad at it but never got really better than OK at it. now i will actually get a dd wheel base to see the differnece myself.
or maybe that has some time casue i jsut spend 4k on mods for my actually real rs3 lol
Thank you for the video!
Could you please share, how you prefer to set up your force feedback? Do you set the wheel in the driver to 100% and adjust the levels in the game or vice-versa?
Great video! Thank you.
For your in-game settings, how high did you set your gain?
I usually run 25% with my R21 having the FFB strength at 100% in Moza Pithouse and that feels realistic to me
I just setup my PXN V10 how my real car drives. I mostly just run GT3 cars. I tried drifting once in Assetta Corsa. Worked fine.
Interesting but you're missing one important point : slew rate. And stronger bases have also higher slew rate. For example, a sc2 sport might have enough Nm, but has a slower slew rate than the sc2 pro. So even if you're not using all the nm of the sc2 pro, you will have a better experience
First I want to say, Thank you, for such an informative video. not many reviewers cover so many choices in one video. Just wanted to say at 8:15 The Cammus C5 actually has a rated/listed Holding Torque of 5nm but has been reviewed and recorded many times hitting all the way up to 8-9nm of peak torque which lands it above even the boost kit CSL's peak torque of 8nm! (The holding torque of 8nm CSL is around 5-6nm) The smaller rim size and overall look of the wheel may deter some.. I happen to quite like its quirky look, but with its shaftless motor design the return speed is amazingly good for drifting, and in my experience it hits Waaay above its weight class in terms of overall strength in its FFB and feels very hefty in Rally. For the price, it just can't be beat. From what I've seen C12 also has a listed Holding Torque of 12nm but actual Peak Torque is closer to 15-16nm. Its just the way Cammus rates their products. I highly recommend the C5 (I don't own a C12) For its price and performance its very good, just be mindful of any local warehouse near your country to help keep shipping costs down. Again, great video, man.
very useful tysm ❤
Great video! And very true about it being better to save than buying the cheapest option. I recently switched from a g923 to a fanatec DD and it’s so night and day different, I should’ve done it sooner.
Which one
Probably the csl dd, its the best value direct drive wheel rn, 400$ for the wheel and pedals @Benedict00
Conclusion : 8nm is the sweet spot for realistic drift :)
Thank you for your video, it is really helpful.
great video 👍🏼
if you are really budget limited then buy a thrustmaster t150/tmx and make a steel bearing mode. Your wheel then will have around 3.5nm
this is so true. I completely agree with you. I use Fanatec GT DD PRO on 8Nm, on PS5. Just perfect. My older steering wheels are G27, T300, T500, but the DD is a perfect choice.
Since I like to play semi-arcade and semi-simulator games like FH5 and Assetto Corsa more than IRacing and any F1 games this video cleared a lot of questions I had about getting a new base. My G27 is getting way too old and I was looking for something to be able to focus more on simply driving around and drifting more than anything else. Since I read a lot of times a DD base motor is somewhat like a speaker and you don't ever want to put the FFB at 100% just like you never put the volume of a speaker at 100% I went from wanting a Moza R9 to Moza R12. Then I saw a comparison between the Moza R12 and Simagic Alpha Mini and the guy said because of the fact Simagic divided the wheel into 262144 instead of 32768 like Moza, the FFB is way smoother and way less janky. Also people noticed the FFB was quiet strong for a 10nm and calculated the Simagic Alpha Mini may be advertised as 10nm but is actually more around 13nm. So I hope a "13nm" running at 70% or 75%, around 9 to 9.75nm should be enough to have a big sport round wheel or big deep dish wheel and still provide enough force to have fun driving around and practicing to drift in games. Next thing would be find how to get turn signal levers and maybe a button box for the buttons lacking from the wheels. Thanks for the video!!!
Good video!❤
Hey kame! I have a question regarding which bundles to buy. Its currently between the CSL DD 8nm bundle, and the monza r5 bundle. Cant seem to chose, do you have any suggestions?
honestly my main issue has always been getting the settings ingame as well as IRL wheel settings dialed to the point It feels realistic and perfect.. I have a ClubSport Wheel Base V2.5 by fanatec I bought when it was new, and I have gotten it to an acceptable setting for "drifting" but then i need to change settings if I wanna grip race cause it feels so off for grip, and then my grip settings feel really off for drifting. Any chance you have the perfect setting combo for the CSW 2.5 for assetto corsa? I mainly just drift but I feel like the ideal settings should be able to work for either or.
Another awesome video with great informative content!
What is the mountain track you're driving on? Downloadable to general public??
Thanks! And yes on the track, that's Irohazaka by EK, which is a port of the Initial: D Arcade Stage track (I think version 8). There's also a version by Project Kaido that's really good.
@KameTrick Thanks mate, I had a feeling it was the Iroha slopes! I have the EK Irohazaka map downloaded but mine doesn't have the sponsor boards and doesn't look as vibrant as yours which is why I thought it may have been something else!
16:56 There is a Fanatec GT DD with 5 NM, and if you use a boost kit you will have 8 NM. You can't get a 12 NM Fanatec GT DD.
This video is really good to understand what to upgrade to
But personally if you get a good deal I recommend the Logitech G920 if you not sure if you going to like it like me, I got mine for £150 and improve my drifting a lot, I don't have a drift car, but I went to do a drifting experience before I had the wheel and keep spinning, after a 6months of having the wheel went again and almost did the full circuit
Best content out there!
Don't forget about Aztek Forte, La Prima, and the 27nm bases they sell! Also if you have a MicroCenter near you, you may be able to find a PXN direct drive wheel no one talks about
FFB quality is the most important. For example I use Moza R21 and keep it at 40% but the FFB quality of R16 and R21 is higher than for example R5 or R12, even more smoother, so it’s even more enjoyable than R5 and R12 I’ve been using before
Very informative. All these years I thought it was me (Logitech G29 user)
What steering wheel do you use? it looks cool
I currently run the tmx and I can agree with what he’s saying about the tmx
Moza R9 or Simagic price range equivalent are the absolute best beginner options for anyone serious about enjoying this as a hobby
I got the thrustmaster T128 for ps5 and I play casually games like Grid Legends, Crew 2/ Motorfest, but I just want this setup and will just watch others with their setup play. I do like the drifting The Crew games and the racing for Grid Legends, but GT Sport is also fun sometimes.
How were you knowing how much nm of force each wheel had? On the Logitech for example, were you just using default settings or turning the force feed back all the way up?
What brand Steering wheel is Kame Trick using ?
Thank you 🙏 u help make my decision
Im not much of a drifter, but i do rally, which involves similar movement to drifting with letting the wheel go.
Im probably going to get the Fanatec CSL DD, probably starting with the 5nm, eventually upgrading to 8nm
At this moment i'm little bit struggling with FFB wheels too (in hope that will setup sim and wheel correctly at last), because IRL drifting (rally too) much easier, IRL these oscillations never happen, IRL there is so much ass-sensing of car inertia which greatly helping to control it.
The hardest part in starting drifting as someone who never tried it in real life is figuring out how to setup your hardware to feel proper, after all how would I know? Been bouncing on and off drifting for a while now for that reason. I will try again with your tips here, but damn wish I could just teleport someone like you directly into my cockpit so you could set it up for me so I can stick to learning on a properly done setup. There is a lot of trial and error involved, I might be on Simucube 2 Pro but I'm clueless if I'm doing the right thing.
Hey! what monitors do you use?
Invaluable information.
I have a g29 which I bought it 4 years ago so I'm considering to upgrade from 8 - 12 NM steering wheel so any recommendation??
I have a moza r5 would you recommend me to run at 100 percent force feedback in game in app currently running at 80% my wheel oscillates at 100 and honestly just feels like I’m driving a car with no power steering
Using a bigger diameter lightweight wheel like 350mm would help because it gives u leverage to make inputs easily while running higher ffb, so that way u can get the quickness of higher ffb like 12nm and still be able to easily make corrections like a real car. Also people prefer bigger diameter for drifting anyways, it helps u be more accurate and make more precise movements, less chance of a spinout. What diameter wheel are u running?
with the logi, and thrustmaster wheels we have to throw the wheel when flicking into corners
Wow, it's crazy that I've never drifted, nor been into it. I only ever built and raced dragsters with my dad, but I guessed before even watching this video that 7.5nM of force was going to feel probably "as close to realistic as you could expect without overpowering."
Having the Fanatec DD+ (50% in games) on my reinforced Playseat Challenge...it rocks without flex, only my skills have a lot of flex 😅
A typical PS curve will be clipping around 5-6Nm most of the time, so you'd be looking at 4-5Nm midcorner.
The catch is that PS is nonlinear, so the ramp is still very high and it feels "tight". PS also won't work with hands off the wheel, effectively speeding up the wheel when letting go.
Modded AC can do a PS curve, but it won't do the hands-off stuff.
Of course, manual cars usually reach 15-20Nm peaks in transient.
I have an alpha mini and use different force feedback depending on the car pack. Some are heavier, some aren’t. Also the oscillations are a pain. Hate having to lower the FFB just to somewhat remove it
Another factor you didn’t mention with the gear driven wheels, on my G920 I’ve noticed that the wheel has a decent amount of resistance to my inputs, but only in one direction. Perhaps it’s because of the gear driven system, or it’s just the g920/g29, but when you flick into a drift (a true staple of drifting on a gear driven wheel), it’s much easier to flick the wheel to the right than to the left, something that you wouldn’t even think of being an issue, yet it is. Another fantastic feature of the G920 is that if you flick a little TOO hard, the wheel will decide that it wants to become unaligned, and centers at about 15° left. It will stay like this until you unplug the wheel, which could require a restart of the game, ruining your race or drift session. On top of that, the software is complete garbage, has no useful options other than steering angle, and it uses 20% of my CPU for no reason. That’s why I agree with you that it’s just not worth it to get a gear driven wheel for drifting, even though it’s the cheapest option available.
Edit: I would like to mention that it is totally possible (albeit very very difficult, much harder than people make it out to be) to drive at the highest level (VDC and others) with a gear driven wheel, but you won’t be able to keep up with anyone else using a belt or DD wheel. It’s purely a factor of the centering speed that you will need to drive those cars. You can drive them, but you will have to compensate with throttle and brakes, meaning you’ll be outpaced anyways. Although it’s possible, just not feasible, and I’ve yet to see footage of anyone shredding tandems using a g27 or g29 with VDC cars or similar high hp drift cars.
What ffb gain in content manager or do you change that ingame?
I got a TS-XW on use market 3 years ago for 250, I wish to upgrade. But I will have to buy a proper rig to mount a DD and at that point i will closer to the 2k than the 1k for an upgrade. Oh, not to mention the space requirement. At least I know I will be aiming at 10-15 nm wheel base.
I dont see myself ever replacing my r9, just as you said 😜
That purple wheel looks sick. What is it?
It reminds me of Grip Royal, which is very controversial. I've seen good and bad reviews for it
Could you show us your settings from the VRS software?
What wheel is that? the color shift is amazing, must have one
yeah i use the tmx to drift. i play 720 degrees of rotation and i still have to throw my wheel into the turns, im looking to get a moza r5 soon thogh
i drift irl, and sim. i have a fana csl dd and i use it on 4Nm. In my opinion 4 is the best
DD wheels are the way to go in any form of sim-racing. Whether you do grip or drift races, the information you get from a DD wheel is lightyears ahead of even the best belt and gear driven wheels. There is just no comparison. In grip races it won't necessary improve your times like magic, BUT it will improve consistency. For me personally 16nm is the perfect fit, especially when you start doing Le Mans racing and other forms with big downforce racing, because it compensates for the lack of g-force in the chair.
I got started drifting with a G27 and worked my way to getting good enough to do 360 drift entries. If you can drift on a weak gear driven wheel you can drift on anything.
How long have u been drifting and what's ur progress? I started about 4 days ago and still can't maintain long donuts. I can however drift corners but can't transition into another corner.
@@zeposthats normal (It was similar to me and my frienda atleast) Maybe try practicing bigger circles?
@@zepos It's kind of hard to give you tips because you don't really say much. What wheel? What game? Is a long donut a wide donut or just for a long time? I used to play Gran Turismo 5 with a G27 and I ranked top 1000 in some drift events back in the days. Could never do that now though, the FFB is too weak I kept spinning out last time I tried.
I was considering buying Fanatec CSL DD 8NM, and after this video I think that's the wheel base I want
I have this one, but if I would buy again today, I might have a deeper look at Moza. Their truck wheel make my eyes water.
I have the CSL DD 8nm and it's not enough aligning torque for all situations in all games in all cars. Games that focus on front wheel understeer as feedback clip early with 8nm in mid or rear engine cars. It's a good base, but not quite enough. You can use power steering as a justification if you want, but there's just not enough headroom for all games to make the necessary contrast between traction loss and peak grip, so you end up having to sacrifice some of that detail to avoid clipping, it's not terrible by any stretch, but I'd aim for the R12 to be on the safe side. The reason why more torque is good isn't for a workout, it's because it means more holding torque can be sustained even when bumps and other peak torque details happen at the same time... more headroom gives you that.
can i get the links to all the tracks that were in this video?
thanks
I am using Moza R5 with 100% in Pit House but in the AC the Gain is on 60%. I don't like to fight with my wheel while drifting. What's the point to upgrade the base to, like R12? Everyone is set the Gain to 100% just I am the only weak sim(practice)drifter? :D
I guess for mostly ETS2/ATS and occasionally some Forza, AC and BeamNG the 5nm CSL DD from Fantatec or Moza R5 should be enough?
what DD wheel is $450 that you mentioned? i've had a thurstmaster tx (like the xbox version of the t300) for 10 years now and i'm satisfied with it, but for $450 i might consider upgrading
Think the fanatec csl dd is around that price or cheaper, moza r5 is sligthy over 500, the cammus is also there
Do they make wheels with at least 1080, if not 1440 degrees of rotation? Not sure I'd like such a low rotation given that most IRL cars I've driven are between the two numbers I gave. Especially once you consider that all of THOSE had normal steering angles of around 35-40 degrees as opposed to drift steering.
Several of the belt drive wheels can do 1080, and mechanically the DD's have no rotation limits, however I think some of that is software limited. Ideally you could set anything between 1 and 9999 degrees...but in order to unlock that, each wheel maker has to program an upper limit into their control software.
So it may take some extra investigation, asking the sales teams and Reddit/Discord communities for the wheels about the current max rotation you can set in the software to narrow down which ones will give you the rotation you're looking for.
The Thrustmaster TMX is in a different league to the logitech wheel
13:50 Huh, what?! xD