Gacha Drama and the Korean Gender War Pt. 2 - The Grim Reality of Korea
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- čas přidán 30. 05. 2024
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South Korea is in the midst of a brutal civil war, but it might not be the one you're thinking of.
In Part 1, we discussed how Neo-Confucianism and foreign oppression shaped Korea into the deeply hierarchical society that it is today. Now that we've seen the historical roots, it's time to examine the trees so that we can finally observe the entire forest for what it is.
Why is the Korean gender war so bitterly fought? What is life on the ground like for actual Korean men, and women?
We'll discuss these topics, and more, while also observing the already preposterous yet ever escalating dramatics of the Korean Gacha community.
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/ moonchannelyt
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Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
02:29 - We are Living in a Megalia World
09:49 - The House that Rhee Built
20:19 - The Great Dictator
24:22 - And I am a Megalia Girl
31:41 - The Death of Park and the Modern Korean Political Cycle
46:19 - A Gacha Drama to End All Others
55:35 - Hell Joseon
01:04:11 - The Suffering of Korean Men
01:08:43 - The Sorrow of Korean Women
01:14:38 - Gender War and Hopelessness
01:18:42 - The Circus of Recent Korean Politics
01:32:26 - A Protest Deflates
01:39:34 - Conclusion
01:47:45 - Credit's Gag [Duet with Yoon Suk Yeol]
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Attributions:
Pt. 2 Thumbnail by @louritashine
Pt. 1 Thumbnail by @BobberWCC
Troll Feminism: The Rise of Popular Feminism in South Korea
Euisol Jeong
etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/28959...
[Highly Recommended Read]
• HUGE HAND GESTURE CONT...
GuitarRock
CIA Dossier on Rhee
www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/...
CIA Dossier on Chun
www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/...
South Korea is Contending with a Gamergate of its Own -- Over a T-Shirt
Mark H. Kim
www.npr.org/sections/alltechc...
A Social Dispute causes Justice Party members to defect
koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/...
Famous Assassinations in World History [Volume 2]
Michael Newton
Economic Crisis and Chaebol Reform in Korea
Phil-Sang Lee
business.columbia.edu/sites/d...
Roh’s Brother Gets Two and Half Years in Jail
www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nati...
Internet user threatens to attack women's rights activists rallying in front of Nexon
koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/...
Nexon, Kakao Games accused of using feminist hand gesture in promotional videos
www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/tech...
South Korea Suicide Rate WHO
apps.who.int/gho/data/node.ma...
S. Korean chaebols comprise 84% of GDP but only 10% of jobs
english.hani.co.kr/arti/engli...
Chung illegally admitted to Ewha University: ministry
www.koreaherald.com/view.php?...
South Korea Choi Soon Sil
www.nytimes.com/2016/10/28/wo...
South Korea's former president is going to prison. The scandal behind it is bat****
www.vox.com/world/2016/11/30/...
The are other articles, but the description is too long. Can't even include the soundtrack this time, sadly.
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On the Pardons:
www.pbs.org/newshour/world/so...
apnews.com/article/politics-c...
On Genshin:
/ i_hope_every_genshin_u...
www.techtimes.com/articles/29...
Jane Jeon - Why Diversity Matters
janejeon.dev/why-diversity-ma...
[Recommended Read]
Hell Joseon Article
asiatimes.com/2019/12/75-of-y...
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Footage:
Women's Rights Marches
BBC and CNA Insider, respectively
Various Presidents
The Associated Press
South China Morning Press
Old Footage
British Pathe
The Associate Press
Korean News
MBC
MBN
SBS
KBS
Footage snippets are used for commentary and reporting. No copyright infringement is intended. - Hry
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In the end, mankind has only itself to blame for what has happen, technology, innovation, population, political, judicial, etc, will all play a part in the downfall of a person.
1:46:26 "I cannot tell you how to resolve these problems"
Then why did you waste an hour and a half explaining all of this with giving any answer? You could, at the very least, tell about corporate sabotage and homemade poisons, y'know, some of the working ways to subdue the higher-ups besides sometimes-working protests and voting
You should specify that the megalia hand gesture was created especially to mock Korean men.
For megalia the 🤏 symbol mean small dick. It's to insult Korean men. Any backlash from that symbol is understandable for people have a right to defend themselves when insulted.
hmmmm... Is it ok to use Mili's song in the video? There is a high chance of getting a copyright strike, right?
@@littlehorn0063I hope this is bait, because trying to convince a guy to TOS himself isn't a very smart argument.
Moon: “Why did the chicken cross the road?”
Audience: “dunno, why?”
Moon: “Well first we need to establish what a chicken is. Let’s go back to roughly 6,000 BC with the domestication of the red jungle fowl…”
Now that we have proven that chicken exists and described their motivating behaviors, we must now discuss the invention and popularity of roads. Let us turn our focus to the Roman republic and the institution of mass government funded paved roads
a chicken is a man
Except this is actually important in context unlike reallifeshill detracting from his inadequate research doing the chewbacha defense type argument
@@NeostormXLMAX True
"It was a time of darkness. It was a world of fear. It was the age of-"
"It is human nature to judge yourself by your intetions and judge others by their actions"
this changed my brain chemistry
Same. I have never heard that said before. I kind of want it tattooed on my arm, or something.
This is a well-know phenomenon in psychology. Check out "egocentric bias" if you want to learn more!
you should read(listen to it as audiobook noone reads nowadays) fucault - he may be a pretentious asshole but if you like stuff that will completely rewrite the way you look at things and is modern enough to make sense (not like something like sun tzu or aristoteles which every pseudointellectual will implore you to read and is LITERALLY worthless in modern philosophy because all the concepts have been reiterated and expanded upon countless of times)
I heard a similar one a while back that went "We judge ourselves based on what we can do. We judge others based on what they have done."
I think it's called Actor-Observer Bias in Psychology
I have a feeling that Moon is secretly more interested being a history and politic youtube channel but doesn't get enough views or viewer retention so he masked them as videogame essays.
I'm not against it though since I'm a history nerd as well.
Nah, I think it's called an anchor. Anchors are where you start looking at it at face value then try to connect it to a larger more concerning things.
Gamers will rise again!
Halfway through I have completely forgotten that the video was supposed to be about gacha games and was completely engrossed in everything he's saying lol. I was like "wait, what am I watching again?"
@@cultureddoggo5606 little of column A, little of column B.
@@LeMicronautFrom what? More people game than ever before.
You know it is bad when even Japanese and Chinese men see the misogyny of Korean men and are like, "dude, chill. This is embarrassing. "
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yea was about to say.. xD
Note the whole political correction scene does not represent reality. And korea actually has the potential to take the crown of sexism in Asia.
lol 😂
The sexism of Japan and China is just on the surface. Wives rule the household, husbands just provide.
I immigrated to the us at a young age, so most of my memories of korea were of childhood rosy memories; when the first female korean president was pardoned, I remember asking my mom why she was so sure the new president will pardon her, and she responded as if it was the most natural thing, "how do you think the new president can get pardoned later if they don't pardon their predesessor?" it was around that time I really understood that no korean really expects their politicians to not be corrupt anymore.
It's like Ford pardoned Nixon in 1976. Different country but same playbook.
to be fair, at least your politicians doesn't commit and endorsing war crimes and genocide since the founding of our nation. Our nation are far worse when it comes to corruption, we just legalized it as if it is legitimate.
Your mom gave you a good answer
Is anyone noncynicial enough to expect noncorruption?
@@ihatecabbage7270The words Korea and "doesn't endorse war crimes and genocide" don't go togethor regardless of which Korea you're talking about.
"The Korean President was killed Friday by a bullet accidentally fired by the head of South Korea's Central Intelligence Agency. Which, uh, also killed his head bodyguard. And four other people." God I love when newscasters have to stay unbiased about stuff like this.
It's funny how protest is so effective, we learned that from Shinzo Abe too.
"They say a good sniper neutralizes three enemies for every one bullet shot" -Kasumizawa Miyu, Blue Archive
it's not "unbiased", it's the opposite. i don't know if you've been keeping up with the Palestinian genocide at all but newscasters constantly weaponize passive voice to deflect blame. nobody is unbiased
@@SkuIIy_ yeah, it's called "overwhelmingly acute lead poisoning by way of quintuple perforation" ;D
@@czarkusa2018 that is a very dagerous game
So you're telling me that in Nikke, your character's superpower is being a decent human being?
You know, in a place where discrimination is rampant, being treated fairly is a damn miracle (even though it should be a normal thing).
Nikke is a literal asian society. Woman treated like disposable tools. MC is a good guy because he at least considers them as fellow human beings.
@@robertnomok9750the setting has the women as super soldiers because there basically are no men left in the war against the machines. Very different from how you are framing it.
@@MALICEM12 They are still heavily sexualised (objectified) for the pleasure of men with a male character as the self-insert phantasy that all women cater to. That's not a story about equality, respect or power for women. It's not even decent towards women.
@@MALICEM12
And then they take woman's brains, put them in robots, and treat them as disposable weapons of war
Honestly "that time corporations were brought to their knees because people were mad about girls trolling" would be hilarious if it weren't so sad
Reminds me kinda of Bojack Horseman where America banned guns because men couldn't stand feeling unsafe around armed women.
@@DBZHGWgamer Well, it actually happened, but under Reagan and black people arming themselves.
Cant believe we live in a timeline where confuscionism leads to incels getting someone getting fired over not drawing enough 2 d boobies which leads to a social revolutionary
“A house divided against itself cannot stand; a people divided against themselves cannot revolt”
Was not expecting that, wow
And it needs to be plastered everywhere.
@@megamangos7408i agree
And that's why they're force-fed submission to hierarchy like foie gras ducks. Culture wars have always been instigated by the powerful as a means to divide the working class, and hegemonic norms are imposed to keep people ignorant and easy to control.
divide and conquer is the m.o of all hegemony
@@nathanlevesque7812 Anglo is uniformly evil, yes.
You can hear Cookie Run's dev and art team sigh in relief as their characters don't have fingers
They will be judged by the positions their arms are in.
We can goon to the cookies in peace.
The ceo is known to be a sexist. So CR is covered on both ends
So acc to an artist who worked for the company DevSisters (mostly men) the job interview was reaĺly stressful due to the ceo insulting/making fun of the artist to test her stance on feminism.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I worked for Korean company for four years and all our mid and upper management were Koreans on contract in my country. The culture shock when dealing with them and their ideology was something else entirely. The hierarchy is so alien and ridiculous that it could drive you insane, at least at first.
My boss was more westernized but still older guy and he hated all of it with passion but he still went with all the nonsense. We often talked during a cigarette break. He told me in this somber tone that he only wants his daughter to finish her higher education so he has to work himself to death and lie because his boss says so. It was pretty sad to hear as he was extremely intelligent but acted like he was some kind of slave. He said he hated Korean way of living, even other Koreans.
Lying and corruption was so normalized that even in the worst period in my post communist country it seemed like we were paragons of justice in comparison.
Thank you for this video it gives a lot of context to why he behaved like this. I was often angry at him but now I only feel sorry for him.
I received the “Korean talk” even as an American citizen, but my parents are Chinese from China. I am dating someone partially ethnically Korean, and my mother was absolutely relieved to learn that his Korean parent was adopted and therefore raised with Western cultural norms instead of Korean ones
wtf is the "Korean talk" ?
@@zodiark111 The thing at the end of the video Moon talks about. You'll know when he's talking about it because he calls it "the Korean talk." But basically it is common for East Asian parents to warn their daughters about Korean men and their dangerous behavior towards women. Whether or not that is a fair perception, racist, or whatever else-- it exists
I've gotten it 3 times as I'm in many mostly SEA circles online(forums and discords), and have seen the discussion so much its wild. I shouldn't be surprised given JUST how much I saw that exact ''Don't date korean men'' word for word be had in different instances and circles covering different hobbies(from music to MMOs), but I am. I'm also American.
@@TheWaffleRadioehh its typical asian stuff. They always hate each other
Yea, I got the Korean talk big time. Also the talk about men from specific areas in China, it’s said that this talk have to exist
Steal 24.6 billion, get fined 13 billion..... Something's missing here. 11.6 billion to be exact.
Even with that 11.6 billion the fine would still be missing tbh.
13 billion for a few years in prison, sounds like a good deal to me.
@@maxpower3990 but they stole 24.6 billion?
@@yahyathegameenjoyer It's sarcasm. It's a good deal for the corrupted government and corporations but not for the regular people
@@thienphucn1 oh crap my bad
As a korean, I find it really incredible that there's a foreigner who actually understands this korean drama.
I thought no one could.
This topic is very very very local and complicated through korean history.
Even if you're native korean, it's pretty hard to understand the context of this topic fully
Midway through the video, I had to stop and ask myself, "has Moony been Korean all this time and I didn't know?"
At least with regards to the paranoia over Megalian and the pinch, it echoes GamerGate and similar Western movements enough to be familiar.
I'm glad I know of this history as well, more so that someone out there is willing to communicate this information to all to provide context.
I have been in Jap and Kor for 6 months each for university, I admit I do not have all of this background knowledge about events (which is probably only achievable if you speak the language) but this situation in Asia is pretty common knowledge for any who visitors who took time to actually speak with locals, instead of just touristing around
Also I was around there in fall 2019 watching from the side of the road the protests against Moon Jae-in, funnily enough
"I thought no one could." You thought wrong. Its not that we cant, its just that why would we bother understanding an inferior midset when it has no impact on our lives?
I have also had the 'Korean talk' despite being a 2nd generation Irish immigrant in Australia.
Specifically my mum talked to me about it after her experiences working with South Korean men in the pharma industry.
Pharma industry is rough, even out of Korea. You sometimes hear stories of workers so over-squeezed they take their own lives. It's like the sheer scale of this trillion dollar industry saps the humanity out of everyone in its zone of influence.
Which part or timestamp does he talk about it in
Hi, Hongkonger-Canadian, a (Yangmingist) Confucian plus cultural historian here. The nuance to differentiating the different denominations of Confucianism was a STELLAR job well done, and making this all so relatable to things that hit so close to home makes this video series just pure gold to watch. I wish I had my 1st or 2nd year East Asian Studies (or my students back when I taught) use materials such as these to pull interest, rather than reading Marx and Deleuze (which are very important,) but young minds often don't appreciate the context until stuff like THIS makes you go back to the classics and realize how we got here.
Again, you just brought the conflicting cultures of East Asia a step closer together to understanding each other. Perhaps a little more.
👍👍👍
Why does Moon keep bringing up this gacha game in my Korean history documentary?
To make it easily digestible for certain audiences and catch the eye of more people easier. I don’t like gacha games either but I’m glad his videos are getting more attention on that front.
To tie together history and the present, of course.
@@bernkastel7438 It was sarcasm bro
Clickbait!!!!!
This comment make me snort like a little piggy.
What I watch : Korean Gacha Drama
What I expected : Angry feminist and gamer squaring off brutally
What I got : A breakdown of how messed up the Korean society has become
It truly is a clusterfuck.
@@thuranz2773 that is the biggest understatement i have heard of in a 100 years
seriously, those angry men are such babies mysogny is real and they are too immature to look at the plight of women in their society and think hmm maybe me making up reasons to feel oppressed is not the same as actually being oppressed.
Meanwhile Americans: "Wait, political leaders being forcibly removed over corruption? CEOs resigning in disgrace? Rich and powerful men unsubscribing from life? Where do we sign up?"
Didn't this shill get caught lying and uploading a video with bunk research? People don't forget.
Koreans be looking at Cyberpunk 2077 deadass like its a utopian dream
Generalize more PLS its so healthy
@@hgyuuuuhj098It's not that generalized thing, it's almost true.
Birth rate drops to 0.6, suici-rate is sky-high, and many people compare themselves to 5% upper classes consistently, and gender issue, politics, censorship like china...
Guess I can fill up whole essay with social issues.
@@hgyuuuuhj098in 15 years there won't be any women left in your hellhole
I've seen Korean men be stereotyped as bad partners once or twice. I didn't know they were so bad that all of Asia gives their daughters a "talk" about them.
Blame confucious.
What time stamp or part does he talk about that In ?
@@selenophile52561:44:30
He mentions it right at the end. Kind of a wake up call for any Korean men still watching the video by then. @@selenophile5256
There's a weird sense of dramatic irony how the main focus of the first part of the video, Project Moon, has admitted that the incredibly dystopian setting they've made is just "An slightly exaggerated version of Seoul and Korea".
Jesus man, shit's fucked.
Say goodbye to your society. Bro. Your women don't want tot have your babies. We in the last stages of Late Stage Capitalism which will bring upon a Dystopia of endless way mongering amongst the sexes and less babies. Embrace multiculturalism because Anglo-Saxons are dying.
"Slightly"... Holy sheet.
Looks like they have a *_LOT_* to take inspiration from . . .
Like, you know, America. And the corpse it has successfully turned Western civilisation into these past hundred years.
you know what I signed up for like some dumb gacha outrage but here am I getting a rundown of how korean society works, which with due respect, I absolutely welcome cause I am also a nutcase for knowing weird ass info
"Unholy marriage between 4chan and Reddit" Dear God, what have they done. No single nation could harbor such site without DIRE consequences.
Fun fact : Why are they saying "gallery" for forums? And why is it DC inside?
It was a massive BBS for Digital Camera, Digital Camera Inside. The term "gallery" was from there, because the manager have to part the theme of Digital camera pictures. And at some point, users made many images and memes because they are familiar with computer graphics(You know, Digital Camera users in early 2000s). And then, Memes overtake its essence.
And it became a mega-community like 4-chan. I don`t think this as reddit-like though. The lack of reddit-like mega (official) community that DC inside took a signfiant role in South korean internet history. AND YES THAT IS TOXIC AS HELL. And I should admit that I am a part of it and that toxity.
@@nepu47 so it's basically Korean 8chan. """Fun."""
Just by that description, you can smell the sweaty internet chud stink from the homepage.
@@SuperSmashDolls Yeah... fun fact (sad face)
Unholy marriages between 4chan and reddit already existed. For example: 4chan. And reddit.
Thank you for addressing both the men's & women's struggles in Korea. It's refreshing to find a balanced, unbiased approach to these issues instead of just the most palatable & trendy. However, I feel like you should've mentioned how sexual crimes have been on the rise annually ever since pornography was outlawed there.
Wanted to watch a video on Korean Gacha drama but ended up watching a political documentary on corruption and misogyny. Win-win. Great 2 part documentary, thoroughly enjoyed it! Subbed.
Cancel Culture knows no political sides, only victims. It's interesting that in the US cancel culture is welding by the ideologically opposite side as cancel culture is being wielding in Korea. Same tactics, same behavior, same phrases (everything is a dog whistle for the hidden pervasive enemy that is everywhere!), just different ideals that light the spark. Ideals always held to be the morally superior ones by the framing of the existing culture.
@@Ralathar44 This guy is really only showing one side of the argument. The population as a whole seems to lean "left", so the fact that people who dislike feminism have some power in this one tiny sector, does not mean that only one side uses struggle sessions, and the other has clean hands. Also, I would bet that the average, (not the most attractive and wealthy) men in South Korea treat women with respect. Men often get a bad name for what the most wealthy, and attractive men do.
I worry because dialectical activism, is common now, meaning "the reaction, is our real action". Put another way, there are people who love that men are getting angry and fed up with provocations (mid level violence) and are perfectly happy to use the backlash to get what they want. Divide and conquer. It's easy to see that women are provoking men online, on purpose, using the reaction of men in the red pill/manosphere/men's rights groups to say "see men are vile and bad, they do imprison women in an unfair system"
@@alanjackson1568 Aye its pretty clear that the video maker has some strong biases in this and are not giving an objective read here. Even their "suffering of men" section was half about women with no self awareness of what they are doing. And all that kinda bias does is muddy the issue further and cause more division because then you have to acknowledge which often causes disagreements and arguments and now the conversation becomes about that instead of the issues at hand.
It's clear via the information in the video that there is real social power wielded by both sides of the divide, nobody is being paranoid. And while many instances of the C symbol were coincidences and people do indeed jump at shadows...that's not to say they are not happening either. As that one woman said she'd keep fighting for it subtly and stealthily. And being a man animating things =/= it not being done for ideological reasons...it just means the assumption they were female were wrong. Consistently in every case they are unearthing people who are either feminist or sharing feminist propaganda. So its not like they were finding nothing.
Its a difficult, complicated, and nuanced situation and the biased framing of the video is not helping anyone. Both sides of the conflict are right AND wrong because neither side is a monolith. Something they make clear with the feminist movement but not so much for the other side.
@@alanjackson1568 Idk about that, I don't think so many women would be against dating/marrying Korean men in their own country if they were being treated with respect (S. Korea not alone with this issue, but they have a Huge split in ideology between genders). Also, polling has shown Incredibly conservative/controlling sentiment towards women among a large percentage of men in S. Korea.
@@tabruc4186 Conflating "conservative" with controlling based on one video, which may be based off zero in person experience, is a bad idea. Innocent until proven guilty.
Also, considering how much of a threat dialectical activism is, I would at the very least, acknowledge it, when talking about backlashes caused by it.
it's kinda fitting (in a sick way) that both koreas are the irl example of the worst case scenario of their respective socioeconomic systems
It suggests that perhaps rigid hierarchy and obedience to the rule of hierarchy is itself the root cause
I don't think they're comparable. South Korea, for all it's faults, is still arguably a pleasant and successful country in the grand scheme of things.
@@adamatari❤
Rigidity is only useful in situations where an opposing force must be directly resisted, and anywhere else it is dangerous. This goes for everything from culture to engineering.
@@deathpacito8702it isn’t, for the rich? Sure.
I don't remember who said it, but it's South Korea that is a cyberpunk dystopia, not Japan.
Korea's primary cultural exports are kdramas and idols and other such idealized fiction, so most people are completely unaware of how life is there because Seoul is a pretty city.
Japan was on its way, it's the reason why cyberpunk was even conceived. The government just managed to stop corruption from getting worse, at a huge economic cost.
@@GastricProblemsHaverthe amount of soft power korea wields globally is mind blowing
The world of Project Moon's games are in fact directly inspired by the kind of lives they lead. So yea, it's a hellhole.
More like Japan *was* the cyberpunk dystopia, but then the Korean economic miracle did post-war Japan on 'roids.
That megalian hand sign is actually hilarious. That shit is like 2010 illuminati triangle shit bro, except it was unironic and people were mad about it. It reminds me of the ok sign white power bs but in reverse.
Imagine seeking (and then being insulted by) small penis gesture 🤏🏻
Except that wannabe edgy right extremist meme-lords actually did the 👌 on purpose, with just a veneer of irony to have plausible deniability when criticised. A motte and bailey tactic. Just like with the milk drinking, because superior human beings aren't lactose intolerant. Or turning a literal N*zi flag into a meme flag. When called out they could always fall back on "i'm just trolling, lol u mad" but everybody in their ingroup knew what was up.
AMOGUS
The illuminati triangle memes were because it was originally unironic and the memes were mocking it, and the people who did it unironically never stopped, they just see different patterns now, like spirals, gematria and colors.
The videos could've easily just been pointing and laughing at the strange finger fixation of korean gamers. So glad you went into the sociological view here it made it so much more interesting and informative.
I mean it’s still stupid that they’re so angry about it. You can admit they’re suffering under societal ills while still admitting that they’re absolutely taking out their frustrations in the most ridiculous manner possible.
Yes, now I can be properly informed and laugh even harder at the pathetic schizos freaking out over fictional women's hands.
@@ladygrey4113 This is true, but when there is literally no way to vent stress. People will vent it in really weird places and methods.
I mean it has really strong direct parallels to US culture. Cancel Culture knows no political sides, only victims. It's interesting that in the US cancel culture is welding by the ideologically opposite side as cancel culture is being wielding in Korea. Same tactics, same behavior, same phrases (everything is a dog whistle for the hidden pervasive enemy that is everywhere!), just different ideals that light the spark. Ideals always held to be the morally superior ones by the framing of the existing culture.
@@Ralathar44 Bro the LEFT in the US has wielded Cancel culture like hammer. it only just recently been used in reverse if that. The right has no cultural dominance in the US.
I lived in Korea my entire life and this guy has a better understanding of Korean history and culture than most of the people I've met throughout my life. I genuinely think this video should get Korean subtitles so I can share it with some of my friends and families. thank you for making this video. I feel so much better knowing that my struggles and frustrations are noticed by others. Though i doubt much would change anytime soon I'm sure people who have watched this video gained a deeper understanding of this situation and learned to be less hateful.
I think CZcams still lets you contribute translations/subtitles, but with a video this long, it's not exactly a one-person project you can smash out over the weekend...
@@itsshauta Unfortunately, CZcams discontinued community captions years ago, so you’ll have to contact the creator.
@@dysr Awww that's wack
i strongly agree with this, @moon-channel no idea if you will ever see this, but do you think you could find a way to work with a korean-speaking subscriber to get translated subtitles for this?
If someone were to work on Korean subtitles I'd be more than happy to be on the team
As a Korean(who desperately wants to leave here)
This video kinda "woke me up", Maybe I'm too naive and take everything I hear as truth. But the part about overcompetitive life and the frustration that you get from feeling like you have no control just vented towards other people. That one I really felt.
You also covered modern Korean history quite well(Well maybe not but better than I could've) probably a lot of work went into this one. So thank you for covering one of the most frustrating and confusing Korean events, The history, and the "Gender war".
(And sorry if you had to read this this was one hell of a rambling)
I come from somewhere with the same issues, if severely less oppressive (U.S.), and I just want to say I'm a bit inspired by your comment. Who knows, maybe if you (as a society) can make something happen, we may experience some beneficial ripple-effects.
"As a Korean(who desperately wants to leave here)" Then I have no respect for you. Cowards flee, respectable people work to make their land as it should be.
@@Cool-Vest_Leo Only less oppressive if you're in the least oppressed group, the straight Caucasian male. The "pure" trinity.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 A revolution isn't made by one man. Not everyone is ready for an uprising. There is no shame in a tactical retreat when it can save your skin, and we're in no place to judge without knowing the full context of his decision.
@@Cool-Vest_Leo "A revolution isn't made by one man." Yes. But the atom of a lot of men is 1 man. The whole is made of many parts each of which is integral. Act like you want everyone to act.
"Not everyone is ready for an uprising." So do reform instead. And spread your message and recruit more reformers.
"There is no shame in a tactical retreat when it can save your skin" Yes, but there is no tactical retreat here. Emigration is complete strategic withdrawl.
"and we're in no place to judge without knowing the full context of his decision." Humans are judgemental, deal with it. I will always say that you should be the change you want. Latvijas situation is also horrible and I as an honorable nationalist will never abandon my fatherland and people in their time of need.
I always knew that The City, the setting of Project Moon's games, was basically modern day South Korea on steroids. The Wings (large corporations that govern their own areas of the city called their Nests) are basically the chaebols, who have eschewed morality in favour of maximising profit, and all their workers are immensely overworked and treated as disposable resources. The government of the City, the Head, comprises 3 of the City's most powerful Wings - a reflection of how the civilian government and business corporations are so intertwined in real life South Korea.
But the talk about hierarchy really made me look at PM's games, specifically Library of Ruina, in a whole new light. You basically spend the entire game fighting your way up the hierarchical ladder, starting from the lowest backstreet scavengers to the biggest corporations and their private armies. Fixers (basically mercenaries) have their hierarchy based on their number grading, and so do Fixer associations. The story chapter names, like Urban Plague and Star of the City, are in-game terms used to denote threat levels to the City. Even the game UI is presented in hierarchical fashion - for story chapter selection you start at the bottom and scroll upwards to the later chapters instead of left to right in many other games.
Really great video overall with lots of historical context to put things in perspective. Thanks for making this.
I must commend this essay. As someone who has heard a lot of romanticized stories about the economic development of SK being from a developing country this legitimately made me pull the hand break on some beliefs ive had. This was so good that I'm actually setting up reviewing some of the sources you cited to learn more. An YT essay that piqued my interest to the point of going after sources I think is one of the highest praise I can give.
I will be subscribing with perhaps unreal expectstions on future videos due to the quality of this one. I promise ill try to be chill
Yeah, Japan and South Korea owe a lot of their rapid economic growth to their usefulness to the US as a bulwark against communism.
The 20th century history was solid, but it would've been nice to see more numbers/narratives surrounding the chaebols, SK quality of life, and economy across the presidents, even though those could probably just be fabricated/massaged given the amount of dictate the chaebols have (the 60% compared to the 1.7% standard oil GDP comparison was great, even if the economies and techs are kind of completely different). Reporting bribes here and bribes there for an individual -even the president's son, is kind of a drop in the bucket when we should be asking things like Samsung's global market share and the Korean investment in semiconductor plants in Texas. A lot of the middle felt like an emotional blur of "every politician is corrupt" and "everyone thinks you should have to deal with the same bull, but worse".
Good you were motivated though, this topic definitely needs more people investigating, digesting, and spreading the info, especially when it was only like 2019 when- from the US perspective- the NK/SK tensions were looking like they may start WWIII at any moment.
South korea elevated its economy by engaging in protectionism and then opening up to their economy once strong enough.
Like all strong economys it grows by exploiting less developed country. Europe and america do the exact same thing to the countries around them.
The exploitation of their population in south Korea and Japan are greater then on the west. But the West is only better because it has had successful label movements and the multinational corporationsin the west or desperately trying to erode the gains that were made.
I think South Vietnam and South Korea in the 60's and 70's got to be honorary liberal market economies despite what was happening. Vietnam today is some sort of state capitalist model close to China. Which is coincidentally close to what the Japanese and South Korean industrialization was like.
There is a wargame, Fire in the Lake, where you play the USA, the ARVN, the Vietcong and North Vietnam fighting the war. They have mechanics for random coups in South Korea changing the head of state. The anti-buddhism campaign is shown in a few cards. Like a few other games in the same series, the ARVN gets to represent american experiences with corruption. The ARVN win by squirreling away as much cash as possible from the shared security budget.
Please, someone, subtitle this whole thing in Korean. It's tough, but so necessary.
I second this
I third this
From my experience, usually there's enough coverage of this stuff in the country of origin
It's akin to how Russia is portrayed as a generic fascist state and a similar video about a Russian issue wouldn't be surprising for Russians but would uncover a good bunch of internal politics.
Say, Dugin or Stas Ai Kak Prosto decide to target Pathalogic. They didn't, but they very well may because of internal fight against liberalism in universities like HSE where a lead game designer taught.
This discourse wouldn't be novel in Russia, but the specifics of Russian liberal opposition are largely uncovered even by liberals who migrated from the country.
@@andreymontag history is repeating, as liberals were uncovered in 1940's Germany, the same thing is true in today's Russia. Which is concerning, as massive hate crimes pop up against the Germans during the 1950s do to the lack of coverage.... which makes me worry for the Russians, the world will not be kind to them if the war is over.
well, the anti-capitalist rhetoric and talking points of the author can be not spread enough in Korea. This video is not about how problematic is the Korean society, it's about what kind of problems we can discover if we think straight (in anti-capitalist way)
Coming back after finishing I have a few things to say as someone who lived in SK for half a decade (an epic in five parts- I'm sorry it's so long):
- The men there are absolutely miserable, it's true. I imagine I met more of them just for being an obvious foreigner, but they all spoke of Hell Joseon and were desperate to find avenues to leave. Many of them studied abroad for a while and came back to Korea with the sole focus to return to where they studied. One was adopted out to Britain as a child, was guilted by aging family to come back, and ended up giving up his British citizenship because they don't allow dual nationality. He felt tricked and imprisoned by them in a country that wasn't his own, and didn't treat him as their own. Another studied in NZ, and broke down one day because his family thought they wasted their money sending him to study as he struggled to hold down a full time job due to mental health. A one time tinder date called me up from another city because he was on the brink of ending it once. Another, an ex-partner, was violent and I ended up his target because he too was desperate to have some control in life after failing to find a way back to Australia. I watched yet another basically disintegrate during our relationship as he felt Covid destroyed his potential to move abroad and continue to work in the commercial aircraft industry. The only one I knew well who hadn't been beaten down by life was a man whose mother owned several department stores, and whose father owned a prominent construction company. He was having a ball. He was also ethnically Korean, but held Russian citizenship and was basically just in Korea for fun (and to hold an executive role on a gaming company board I guess).
- The pressure on women got to me too. I had Botox done on a few times whim, I had a random mole on my neck surgically removed (it wasn't even ugly, it was just imperfect), got my teeth molded and whitened, fixed a tiny discolouration on my front tooth- I spent a LOT of money on various beauty expenses. I had an online consultation for rhinoplasty and fillers once too, didn't go through with it. I still have a list of procedures I want(ed) to have done on my phone somewhere. A lot of the women I met were staunch feminists- less Megalia, more frustrated and pushing for equality. Wanting to be more than an ageless, beautiful prop as somebody's wife. But it was quietly confessed like a guilty secret, with eyes darting around to make sure no one could overhear the damning admission.
- Political awareness is everywhere there. I remember visiting before I moved there, and I saw a parade happening when I was walking through Busan one night with some new friends from the hostel I stayed at. I asked them what they were celebrating, and they told me it was actually a protest against Park Geun-hye's inaction over Sewol. I moved there immediately after Moon Jae-In met and shook hands with Kim Jong-Un at the border, and I remember people watching news about it like a hawk. I noticed almost every taxi driver watched the news coverage on their dashboard more closely than they'd watch the road around that time. The grim finale of their presidents was a topic of dark humour sometimes. Considering what they've all lived through, it makes sense for them to be so keenly, hand-wringingly aware of what is going on at the top. I know a lot of young Koreans felt truly let down by Moon Jae-In later in his presidency, they had hoped he would do more to pull them out of a feeling of dire hopelessness.
- The general fear and apprehension for the future reaches all the way down to elementary school kids. Most of the boys are terrified about military service, but I knew one very smart but very unstable 10 year old who absolutely loathed China and couldn't wait for the day he could fight them in a military setting. I knew some absolutely brilliant girls who knew their best bet was to put all their efforts into English and apply for universities abroad as soon as they could. Totally fluent American English without having stepped outside of Korea once. Others were just numbly aware that even if being a kid is hard, it only got worse from here. I hope when they grow older, they inherit a better Korea that allows them to flourish.
- I too got the Korean man talk. I lived in Japan, and was due to move to Korea in a few months. One day when all the other teachers were out, the school librarian told me half seriously, half jokingly: come back to Japan if you want to marry. A wonderful Korean boyfriend will turn into a horrible Korean husband and take away all your freedom. But a terrible Japanese boyfriend would make a good Japanese husband because he would be too worn down from work to stop you from doing whatever I liked.
She was older, single, and one of the most happily content people I have ever met.
edit re: gacha games, never actually met anyone into them lol
Thanks for sharing your experience here, it is quite insightful and well, hope you are doing well out there.
"But a terrible Japanese boyfriend would make a good Japanese husband because he would be too worn down from work to stop me from doing whatever I liked."
That's grimly hilarious.
What an incredible comment. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us all!
And thank you as well for your generosity, Hedgehog! I was so engrossed in the comment, I hadn't even noticed the Super Thanks. That's mighty generous of you -- I am so glad that you enjoyed the video.
SInce you lived in Korea, I wanted to ask a question that, I feel, was not brought up in the video: South Korea in a democracy now, right? The president is elected (directly or indirectly I don't know) by the people, right?
Is there really no opposition to this corrupt political system that, no matter what the people vote, some level of corruption will inevitably reach office? How are the elections turnouts? How many people go to vote at every election?
The only part, I dont understand is why these companies need to apologise to random men on the internet? How does the social hierarchy works btw them and their customers?
Growing up in my country, we had an idolization of other countries and specifically Korea for a time. We were considered quite poor and undeveloped and the way for families to change their lives was to essentially "sell" their daughter to a international marriage. A lot of them happen to be married off to Chinese and Korean men/families.
This contributes somewhat to the way Korean view us as lesser than, going so far as putting a line in a drama that essentially have a mother calling her useless, deadbeat of a son that even girls from my country will not marry him. That is also not yet mention the fact that they consider people from my country in the work force (which are cheaper than those of Korea's) as less skilled, less smart, less capable of Korean work force (even if they can not afford them).
The illusion of Korea being a great country fade when girls who were obsessed with their oppas come over to Korea, when girls who were married off to foreign families with languages they can barely speak finally try to run back to their homeland after being abused. For a long time, the illusion is kept up because these girls are seen as lucky and sometimes are sole breadwinners of their family in the homeland as the currency gap is too big.
I had the conversation with my mother, although lighthearted, when I was young and we were struggling massively. She said the way for our family to change our lives and for me to have a better life than they did is for me to move. I could try to get a scholarship from Western countries or be married to richer Asian country's men. She then continues to get serious, as jokes often fly over my head, and said: Japanese men won't respect you, Chinese men will not care for you and Korean men will just use you. It's best to not do that after all. Maybe you could try marrying Western lol.
Another note, I've recently joined the physical work force (instead of doing online free-lancing) in my country and had worked with Korean companies for a time. Before I joined the workforce, my cousin, who had worked for many decades longer than I did, warned me it's best not to work with Koreans (and Japanese but that's a different topic) but since I've landed the job, go for the experience and ok pay. Once I quit due to being seen as lesser than, overworked, not properly paid, company being generally shady and lowkey illegal, in-fighting and so on, my cousin reveals that Koreans men who comes to my country to open a business/start up are known to be notoriously ridiculous, pushing their social norms onto ours despite being in our country, expecting unrealistic result despite the improper pay and worker's benefit. I've worked for a Korean company where we are expected to do a 7 to 6 job and only have 1 day off, which was not on the weekend. I've worked for a Korean company who I, who was hired for a different position, was essentially the HR/babysitter/translator, having to manage people's schedules, emotions, making sure the work environment remain non-toxic and keeping track of what the complaints are and how to improve them on top of the job I was hired to do. I've worked in Korean company where the boss did not even hide the fact that he viewed us as his little play things, expected to respect him like a king, speak to him like loyalty and bow to his very whims and demands otherwise he throws a hissy fit and punish us with verbal abuse or delayed pay despite already not having money to pay either or both of our salary and worker's benefits that is required by law in our country.
I, as a child, dreamt of leaving my country. Korea to me was beautiful, their language and the limited Korean friends I made along the way who liked the same fandom, the same characters bring me great joy and it felt like a massively developing country that would help me improve my life, Korean food to me is delicious, varied and, again, a huge joy to eat. I, too, was considered lucky and fortunate to be working with a foreign instead of a local company therefore I did not mention many of the other hardships and underhanded ways I was fucked over by them, the physical and mental toll it took on me and how fiercely I hated life to my family.
To me, Korea was, still is, a beautiful country. Now it is tainted with people with power and money using those like me as no more than pawns and throwing us away once they're ready to move on to a new game.
Another note: I am an open LGBTQ+ person in my work place who looks generally feminine and small. Perhaps it helps my boss feels empowered when they scream of how bad I am at my job in front of my team after coming to the department team to congratulate me for being the person who consistently snatch/get projects for the company to work on to continue getting money of which they make a dollar and I make a dime. My colleagues makes even less and that.
I've gone off in a tangent but I hope the point is clear for anyone who is still somehow within the illusion of Korea despite watching this video or those who is thinking of working with Korean companies. For the foreseeable future, unless you do not mind becoming a statistic, run.
And for the Korean men who have somehow stumbled upon Moon's video and my exceedingly long comment, thankyu for reading and I hope Moon's sentiment is clear to you. We are all fighting the same enemy.
im not reading all of that have a good day or hope you get better
"we are all fighting the same enemy" negative friend. The whole point of active measures/dialectical activism, is that we fight each other instead of the manipulators, and that the fighting makes one side look bad to cause revolution. Though, if your description of Korean people holds true for most Koreans in positions of power, they are monsters.
I have heard something similar of people in China, that in many large cities, they treat serving staff, and other people who can be seen as having "lesser" positions, like garbage.
As someone from a “country in development”, I relate so much to what you said. My family keeps telling me to move to a more developed country, and I can see what they mean because sometimes I feel pessimist in being able to have a good future staying here. But “wake up calls” like this make me wonder… I had some friends who idolized Korea, but seeing so many people who want to leave there, and the horrible conditions, serve a harsh remainder that maybe I too am idolizing other countries (specially Japan in my case). As they say “the grass is greener in the other side”
I read this all, extremely interesting and thanks for sharing. I guess I have an idea of where you are and I hope you eventually find better and more fulfilling work. We people born in the third world always admire and hope about going to the “first world” but in the end, every place is broken. I also work for a foreign company that pays a lot better than local ones, and it’s like the expectation that we just do the same work for less money. After thinking about moving away, I’m now staying here for good, if every place is broken, might as well be where my friends and family are…
@@melaniey.5596after idolizing japan as well all my life, I could travel a couple of times but never ever live there, pretty much no matter how good the pay was. I’ve been in both korea and japan and they are only good for taking pictures, buying merch and eating the food, but then again we have pretty good kr restaurants back home. I’m still planning to go once again to japan, mostly to go to the non-tokyo cities but that’s probably it.
As a half-Korean with a Korean mom, that part about pressure to do well in order to be successful hit hard. Granted, I was mostly raised in the US, but my mother kept that pressure and hierarchy from her own background. Me getting good grades since elementary school is what my life has revolved around. If I didn't get good grades, I would be punished and I remember very clearly that it lead to very dark thoughts even as young as 4th/5th grade. Just that pressure from my mother alone. I can't imagine what it would have been like in Korea. My heart goes out to everyone struggling there, it's insane
"I can't imagine what it would have been like in Korea." I can. A lot of conflict between me and koreans. I can be either very anti social or very social, meaning constant hostility against a society I see as inferior wouldnt drain me at all and I would always remain a member of my own society back home, I already live in an area which is 50% foreigner so yea easy. Whenever anyone asks for your age, growl.
You’re haLf. You’re not Korean
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714 What are you talking about? Growling at people because you don't agree with their culture?
I'm sorry you had to go through that, it must have been very stressful. I hope you know your self-worth is not based on academic achievements.
@@AnotherEmi "What are you talking about?" I fully reject anything toxic and will never be coheresed in to it.
"Growling at people because you don't agree with their culture?" If their culture is toxic yes. Ive also curbed anything toxic from my culture, I will do no evil no matter what others say.
You asked about Blue Archive’s story. The main theme is about how children, who lack any real power, are exploited by adults. Then you, the player character, come in as an adult with the highest authority in the city. You behave as an “adult should”: rather than using the children to empower yourself, you protect them and strive towards making their dreams come true.
With context on South Korea’s culture, to me this feels like a certain kind of wish fulfillment. Wishing for the real, true authority to show up and fight against the corrupt authorities. When I played the game, I definitely thought “god I wish (player character) was here for me irl.” It’s not about fighting authority or the status quo, so much as being saved by the new person in charge. Others may interact with that dynamic differently and experience it as something of a power fantasy where you have all the authority, which I don’t think fits as well. But it is to be expected considering the questionable elements in and surrounding the game…
That’s how I think the game relates here. If anyone else has any thoughts please reply to this, I’d love to hear them.
That first paragraph is insanely funny knowing the reputation and stereotyping BA players seem to get.
I haven't played the final chapter yet, but till now, there are some things worth mentioning. Villain in charpter 1 is a chaebol whose tentacles spread into leggit and black market, and engages in corruption with police and government in charpter 4. In chapter 3, the villain, which appears in ep 4, uses the pre-existent hate between two schools to brainwash and rule over one of them. There are some things that are still mysterious (at least for me), but i think that all chapters point to some kind of peace making and friendship between the students, and looks like what you find in jrpgs. I was blow away by Eden Treaty chapters, "Kyrie for the forgotten gods" in special! This episode is probably the most christian piece i ever seen in a weeb work, but i digress.
@@ArbitraryOutcome As someone who absolutely loves Blue Archive, I get uncomfortable with that side of the community too. I only wish more had the chance to see how beautiful it is as a whole, even if the community doesn't make it easy for that to happen.
@@ArbitraryOutcome
Well genshin players gets called out as pedos depite having only 5 lolies?
Soo it's an expectation already on a game centered on children but with guns
I am also partly on that side of that BA community since the art they create is just too good to ignore (yes I'm a lolicon)
@@SiblingRivalryZX well it is a really good game, a good chunk of that community understands how good BA is, to the point of degeneracy that is
The biggest problem here is the complete taboo against punching up. They can only punch down, and when confronted with the situation where the "inferior" were correct in spite of a "superior's" judgement they still have to capitulate by punching down on anyone else beneath everyone involved. Hence the plane incident in the first video. So the only socially acceptable thing these young men can do is punch down on women.
You know its bad when even the Chinese think your witch haunt against women is crazy lol
I think most of the west’s perception of China is still rooted in late 20th century China, such as in assuming the Chinese government is still as intense as it was during the Cultural Revolution or that families still prefer sons to daughters the extremist way they might have during the one-child policy’s dominance.
But in truth, modern China sees a lot more independent women, and even with some traditions occasionally being upheld, the misogyny really isn’t as intense as people assume.
I mean, just look at this video’s thumbnail. It’s about Furina, a character that _was_ designed by a Korean woman, yes, but _for a Chinese game._
We haven’t heard any Chinese men/incels get up-in-arms about her, and if you argue that’s because a Korean designed her, we can look at all the _other_ female Genshin characters and we’ll see that there hasn’t been any misogynistic controversies surrounding them from China either.
China may traditionally host a system that creates a patriarchal society and it is the origin of Confucianism, but it’s not so bad now. There isn’t the need for women-only train cars the way there is in Japan, there hasn’t been the uproar over spy-cams the way there is in Korea, and there hasn’t been as many of these gaming incel controversies either.
I know people assume China is very traditional and backwards, but it is always best to reconsider your predisposed biases and seek to keep yourself informed.
People seem to forget it's communist revolution and cultural revolution, regardless of the bad that happened did seriously change the perception of Confucianism or traditional beliefs.@@kuku8846
@@kuku8846funnily enough, the previous video's thumbnail is based on Chinese revolutionary imagery of women.
The fact that none of these constant social tensions like the choebals and constant political corruption are as unknown in the west as they are is a testament to South Korea's entertainment industry as the country's PR wing.
You have clearly not watched Korean TV. Massive corruption, is probably the most common plot device for the last decade.
Samsung owning the country is very much known in The West.
And I always felt this kinda emptiness, or manufactured nature from Korean media... works real well on young girls and women, though...
@@Virjunior01and Korean incels so it seems. In distracting their attention in a pointless gender war.
@@Virjunior01 can you elaborate on that? i never consume korean media but you made me curious
There’s a good reason why most manhwas and many mangas are centered around power fantasies, which also coincidentally tend to feature some of the most extreme depictions of bullying in fiction.
its very surprising as an expat living in japan too every japanese i met esp guys has a really bad bullying experience in their high school years. Like its terrible
then again if you consider how f*cked the juvenile law was over in korea it's not that far from reality(it might have been changed now idk, but i remembered a document of how a kid could murder a whole family n there still very large chance of them getting off with next to no punishment purely because they're kid, and they know n abused the f out of that fact)
@@GokayCEKLI Bro, odds are only "weird" people who are likely to have been bullied want to deal with you precisely because you are an expat.
@@werrkowalski2985 Wow, rude.
@@thegrandtemslayr1384 he does have a point though. like it makes sense, even in a country as 'diverse' as the US that sort of thing still exists just to a lesser extent,.
This was the first of your series I've ever watched, and man, it's insane this level of reporting and education is available for free on CZcams. Keep it up dude, you're an inspiration.
East Asian woman. Kpop and Kdramas is incredibly popular but everyone has had a parent or relative mention “but you know in real life Korean men aren’t like those idols or drama characters, right? You’ll get abused and forced to stay at home while he goes out drinking”. It’s common.
Also knew an acquaintance who did marry a Korean guy and moved for him. Everyone in our friend group (including the guys) was nervous for her but didn’t want to say anything out of politeness. Not long after, she started complaining on social media about how her husband never helped her around the home. Again people were concerned but she made her choice. There was a bit of “well didn’t she know?”exasperation.
As someone who used to be engaged to a Korean man, what you said at the end of the video about people from other Asian countries telling their daughters not to date or marry Korean men is so accurate and hilariously spot on. Thanks for making these videos.
Oof, I hope things improved from ur implied history here haha
Kpop fans would disagree with you that
@@MALAY_TENGU Kpop fans are just disillusioned weeaboos who have no idea about the country they idolize, so their opinions are not very valuable. Many of them are women who go to Korea and realize Korea is the shittiest country in the world anyway. Especially the ones who get raped and everyone tells them they are weird for not wanting it.
@@MALAY_TENGUkpop fans dont have their parents telling them to date korean men.
I hope you remember something else about the series other than that little relatable moment as well.
One unusual thing about this is the difference in Japanese vs. Korean comics. Now of days a lot of Manga (Japan) is Isekai, where one gets pulled to a new world, get a cool ability, and go on adventures, and yes have a harem.
Compared to Manwha (Korean) where it's the other world clashes with their current one, invading it, gives everyone abilities, but the protagonist is is special in some way to rise above the new ordering of the country. You will also notice it's almost always in Korea for this.
From my consumption, the general meta for Japan is "leaving the country to be happy" vs. Korea's "Change the entire ordering of society so I can get the respect I deserve." It's really weird how these two countries think apart despite how close they are.
And in the west it is "The world is fucked, let's find someone to blame for it including ourselves"
@@MrAsaqeWell whose fault it is if it's not us, can't blame God innit?
@@MrAsaqeas the guilty gear intro of fights goes "Man tried to blame the beasts" Sometimes it's easier to blame each other, and it's not surprising. To open your eyes to problems can break people, make them desperate for change. But it's not always so simple innit
This was an insightful comment especially as I noticed this during my time watching Solo Leveling
Huh, I noticed this as well
This two part documentary has no business being the best examination of modern Korean society and how we got here.
Thank you for the research and insight you present here, it makes a lot more sense to me now why Korean media seems to have such an innate understanding of what it means to suffer at the hands of others
I went into these videos on accident because I wanted to find someone who had the same opinion of gacha games as me. What I expected was some funny story about the gacha community. What I instead got was a breakdown of Korean culture that made me genuinely changed my whole perspective on Korean media.
Do you think Miyazaki stays offline because he too lives in fear of what he's created?
It could also be because he's 83 years old, I know very few people that age with much patience for tech lol
He's just old and probably busy
Nah, because there is nothing on the Internet for him.
He probalby likes to lounge in his garden and watch his cat play.
Why would he join Twitter? Just to suffer?
@@JackDespero I guess it was the weather.
Yeah, probably
Tangentially related, but in my opinion, the reason why there are so many power fantasy Korean novels is because of the issues in Korean society, such as wealth inequality and social hierarchy, both of which play into one another.
Yeah, I haven’t read them before. But they surely are in the decades old South Korean pulp tradition.
Yea, same reason the US invented several genres of power fantasy in the techno thriller, military fiction, and epic fantasy genre.
I've been wondering why every webtoon I've read is either "Korean boy avoids bullying by RPG powers" or "Korean man avoids job by RPG powers".
I wish more Korean popular media dared to challenge this hierarchy, to look at the why instead of focusing almost solely on personal empowerment.
And the most sad part is they all fantasize becoming the top exploiter, not deconstructing the system of exploitation. Same for Japanese pop cultures, especially those that particularly appeal to male audience. It's genuinely astounding how many just consume "slavery good acktuallie because good slave owner!" manga without even much of a question.
This is probably peak youtube, right here. A brilliant and compelling pop cultural conflict dramatization meeting a historically informed and philosophically grounded political and societal analysis? This is how powerful ideas are formed.
This was fantastic work. You should be proud of yourself. I really appreciated the cultural & historical background. Not many people would've bothered, but it was definitely necessary here.
Yeah. I can't imagine anyone else doing something like this.
The Hoyoverse protest blimp is hilarious 🤣 Perfectly strange send-off for a bleak subject matter. Great video once again Moony!
It sucks that hoyoverse doesn't listen to player feedback or criticism to the point that it drives the players to crazy extremes, but for once hoyoverse ignoring fan protest was actually the proper thing to do.
(Also the fact that nobody could read the text because it was so small is hilarious and had me rolling.)
ironically the blimp was 🤏
@@planetgodzilla473 Yeah, with Hoyoverse there was a different controversy altogether with the pitiful 3 Intertwined Fates as Lantern Rite rewards, and just Genshin seeming to get less love compared to its sister games, Honkai Impact 3rd and Honkai Star Rail, despite being more successful and popular.
dafuq, i can't believe such an emoji exists, that's hilarious.@@devforfun5618
@@ArbitraryOutcome not despite, it's BECAUSE Genshin is much more successful than its sisters. Why handing out goodies when profit will be over the moons either way? with the current status of the game, they simply don't care to appeal to the genshin community.
I don't know about you all, but when Moon Channel says "It's time to talk history. I can see you shuddering through the screen", instead my ears perk up and I say "oh, do tell more" while swaying in anticipation.
Likewise haha, history told in the format of a video essay is like.... one of my favorite things to watch lmao
@@foul-fortune-feline I like history in general, no matter the format. Heck, I read my history textbook when ever I was bored in school.
@@Samm815 textbooks are way too bland biased n incomplete for me haha
History is just the past, but as a story. There are good and bad storytellers, and Moony is pretty good. Tying it all to a central narrative is a bit one-sided, but it’s a good way to make it fun and memorable in the long-term. 🙂
@@realperson69 How on earth is exploring the two major sides in a cultural issue one-sided?
I've never heard of the "Korean talk" before. I had some Greek friends whose mom was told by her dad not to marry a Greek man because she would be treated like a servant if she did. Guess it's similar to that. Sad.
As soon as I heard Genshin, I was like, yeah, it doesn't matter what they do. They're not getting through to Hoyoverse
As someone who played that game for 2 years and was in the fandom for all that time as well, the only way that company will ever listen to anyone's complaints is if the large majority of multiple servers come together passionately on one conclusion. The only time that ever happened was during the first anniversary, which also means it's the only time Hoyo has ever listened to its players
You people really are amazing. You realize that just because you asked for something doesn't mean you are entitled to get it, especially if what you ask for "remove resin", "make artifact one click to get the best ones" are stupid.
Plus the content we are playing today in Genshin already started development 1 year ago. In 3 years, Genshin has implemented 126 quality of life changes, more than any other games I've played, and my wishlist that I submit in feedback surveys has 80% of its content addressed by now.
Hoyo players really are some of the least self aware and entitled people in existence honestly.
@@VaioletteWestover as a hoyo player who also experienced more than a dozen of gacha and live service games - honestly, you arent wrong.
@@VaioletteWestover They did succeed in getting Zhongli Buffed and the 1st Anni, but uh nothing since then so
@@lionofash7700 Genshin has had 138 quality of updates.
Dear humanity,
I'm sorry, and you have my condolences.
After all of this, 200-year war that ends with human extinction doesn't look that bad, to be honest
@@littlehorn0063 200 years? 20 minutes.
you are humanity
Don't apologise, we brought this on ourselves
@@SpoopySquid I'm pretty sure the main point of the video is that "we" actually didn't bring this on ourselves. Not in a direct, conscious way anyways.
As a Korean American, I honesty started crying halfway into the video. Soul destroying Korean social pressure by its own nature covers its tracks by gaslighting you into believing that *you* are the one responsible for your own suffering. You are shamed into suffering in silence
This is imbued into our culture, so its reach stretches even beyond Korean borders. I only recently have begun to reckon and recover from the repercussions thanks to growing Western awareness of mental health and my recent ADHD diagnosis. But I'm someone that doesnt even live IN Korea and I cant even fathom how bad it really is for people there. I felt real personal grief hearing the testimonies and realities in this video series.
Thank you for making these, moonie
What we have here in the west is a mere kindling of progress driven by the tears and blood of social scientists and popular advocates- mental health and wellbeing were (commonly mocked and degraded maybe to a lesser degree than Korea) as recent as the early 2000s.
Feeling sad? Off to the lobotomy machine with ya.
And the scary things is the gaslighting the is neve rrare regardine mental healthy poverall, still.
But its definitly maybe getting better? That ther must be , oh the unalive themselves statistic makes sense.
It's the same in highly religious, conservative American communities. Not much different from how Bible Belt culture is, for instance.
As a guy who literally started attending a group program to try & alleviate my depression last week: I wish you luck on your own self-actualization. ❤ Admitting our struggles is the only way to address them & talking with others & learning to put faith in strangers again is the only way to move forward ❤ We must grow stronger because we cannot stay the way we are. That is intolerable.
So yeah, good luck & remember that there are good people out there who care and want to help! And nobody solves all their problems in one fell swoop: so stay strong & remember that sometimes you just gotta take things day by day. Never give up! Losing hope only ensures one's own destruction. ❤ We are all more capable than we realize, but you must believe in yourself before you can prove it.
@@FelisImpurrator It's the same in highly secular leftist American communities. You just have a group of people who hate and want to blame everything on, and it blinds you to the evil you do.
I'm not a woman but I got "the talk" from my parents about Korean families as a whole instead with much the same messaging. As a bonus in that talk from my parents also said the same thing about Indians. It always struck me as plainly racist and I still think it is racist but I've come to understand where that was coming from as my parents failed to properly elaborate why they felt the way they did.
Buck broken
"I think my parents are racist, but correct anyway about all their prejudices just not about being racist for their prejudices"
hmm...
@@jacobblanton5179"I've come to understand where they were coming from" does not mean that they agree or name that belief as correct. It only asserts that they now have a deeper understanding of WHY such a racist comment is spread. Of course, the op could still be racist but you can't make that assumption from this comment alone, and it's just reaching. Please don't accuse people of terrible things unless you actually have grounds to do so.
The thing to remember is that it is less about koreans or indians and more about discrimination, imperialism, inequality, misogyny, opression and capitalism. It's about hierarquical systems of power and opression that have been deeply ingrained not only in Korea and India, but all throughout the world. They may have certain particularities in the exact ways that opression happens, but it's still just opression like any other country. Opression ultimately enforced not by individual people, but by systems deeply rooted into the core of these societies throughout history.
You may claim they are extreme, but you can't really claim they are fundamentally any different from the rest of the world, or that these issues are inherent to these people. For fuck's sake, a lot of these issues stem from US inperialism. These are not issues of these people being korean or indian or whatever, but of misogyny enforced and encouraged by a system that profits off of it. You cannot use the problems of a society to villify and dehumanise its people. Treating them like that, even if all of Korea and these other countries were misogynistic, would just be an excuse to justify hatred.
TL;DR: Don't say "be wary of korean men", say "be wary of misogynists". You are just using that as an excuse to dehumanise these people otherwise. We're here to show compassion and build a more equal society, not to justify hatred.
@@scug1997 all the replies malding about us imperialism with a colonized mindset, ngmi
I don't even know how to describe how amazing is this video, your well thought out and deeply researched commentary never fails in surprising me every time.
Didn't this guy get Karl jobst'ed on? he got caught for having lack of research
This is clearly a
sarcasm. LMAO.
@@krysivory493 No? I genuinely think the videos he does are good. Is there something wrong with that?
@@Bfkcjscbsnjcgenuinely, you got a source? If that's the case then I'd love to know
South Korean here (again).
First of all, wonderful work of such extensive research and connecting the dots! I was frightened when I saw the name of the DCinside and the namuwiki.
What I see tragic about these full scale war is that everyone is fighting to every other, even without knowing who they are really fighting against at. Moon pointed right about the breakdown of the megalia and the diverse political spectrum of the succeding communities, and there are also so many male communities (various 'minor- and mini-galleries of the DCinside, Arcalive, Ruriweb) and including 일간베스트 (Daily Best). This makes both 'tribes', both male and female, virtually impossible to identify what is the other side's representitive opinion, and in the most cases, the most extremist opinion goes perceived as an consensus of the 'foe' of the tribe.
What was the fundemental flaw of the Megalia was, they were actually mirroring/replicating the community named as '일간베스트' (I'll call it as 'Daily Best' from now on) the notorious toxic child of the DCinside. That community was already recognized as 'problematic' by its right-wing extremist opinion (like idolzing Chun Doohwan who was a dictator committed massacres in Gwang-ju), degrading and making fun of the innocent victims of the 세월호 사건 (Sinking of MV Sewol), and etc.. Thus, by copying the rhetoric of the 'Daily Best', Megalia was prone to the critism about the intention of the community and the inherent extremism from the start.
Also, you see, Korean politics is hyper-Confucian while had no time to navigate diverse ideological landscape, a lot of people tend to vote after the idolized political figure, not by their interest nor their idea about their country. Several attempts were done to take control and recruit young womens and mens using cheap phrases like 'preventing chauvinist/extreme feminist from systematically oppressing the innocent people'. (You can search this by the '이대남' and '이대녀' keywords, which means 'men/women at their 20s'.)
So, it was quite natural for both sides to stay guarded against the other side and the potential external threat to protect themselves. On such environment, the conflict is very easy to escalate, misunderstanding each other, making preemptive attacks, and see the result of their self-fulfilled prophecy as a form of the revenge from the other party. I regret about the Sookmyung women's university Transwoman incident. The incident was about the transwoman get passed the women's university entrance exam, but the angry mob who self identified as 'feminist' made a backlash and canceled her with insults and blackmails, making her give up about the entrance. I was very disappointed about the so-called 'feminists' who attacked the social minor rigourously and aggressively than any other. What I didn't understand was that in real life, so many groups tried to be entitled as 'orthodox feminist' to take control of the political power, and that includes extremists and mal-intended groups. I had made a mistake that all of the feminists were like them.
And, I think that's also the case for the male community. The most extreme and spicy shoutout wins. Think about political polarization all around the world, propagating through various social network services, misinformations and disinformations rise from all of the intentions, good or not.
So... I wanted to scream before the time I will have no mouth, when I get forcefully conscripted and lose the right to make a political speech, because the goverment treats the conscripted soldiers as civil servants, even the soldiers themselves didn't wanted to be the soldiers in the first place.
If you have read this all along, you have my sincere thanks, I'll be slightly relieved.
I read it all ^^
@@iLB-on-YT Thank you!!!
The biggest problem of KR community is that there is no middle ground-unless you're talking with a small group of friends, you have to side with either of the extreme ends... and IMO both are really terrible sides to be with
Like both groups have harassed people, mocked over massive disasters, and is generally the spreaders of hate against each other, and I ain't siding with neither.
@@aerofolly193 Feel so true, actually... even though when you're with your friends, being neutral about some issues/conflicts is not welcomed. I'd rather try to talk about other things, if I really want to keep friendly relationships with them.
of only this extreme hatred was directed and the ones truly responsible.
I rarely comment on CZcams videos, but since you asked people who got the "talk" about Korean men to comment, I figured I would. While I can't remember a specific discussion with my parents, I remember growing up knowing there was a stereotype that Korean men (specifically those from mainland and not the diaspora) were wife-beaters so it was not a good idea to date them. My family is ethnic Chinese. I never ended up in a situation where a Korean man asked me out, but I remember thinking about it when I first started dating.
Thxks u for sharing
Yes, same here! My parents are Chinese immigrants, and I was warned by them to not date Korean or Japanese men from the mainland because they have a reputation of not treating women well (not contributing to housework, cheating, sleazy behaviour in general, etc.). Although some of their warning could also be attributed to tensions between the countries...
As a korean(male), I admit that it *was* a stereo-type, but many things are changed since 90s. My own father, who was born in 60s and honestly does not communicate well with family, never beat my mother. And he never beat me or my sister after middle school. Because he *saw* the behaviors of my grandparents and don`t wanna do that.
As you can see in this video, Legimate democracy of ROK began at the end of 1980s so the women right did. Especially in 1980s, the campaign for preventing domestic violence rose. So at least, after mid 2000s, I can say that beating wife is NEVER common thing. There are wife-beaters & child-beaters, sure, but it is not a default or something natural in South korea.
@nepu47
It's great that your father is trying to be better than those before him as that is key to making a better world, but unfortunately "Oh, wife-beating is not THAT common around here!" is… well, what they all say, and most people probably won't believe you when you say it because it's been said falsely so, so many times. No society *likes* to admit that a notable percentage of its members regularly takes out their frustrations on those who can't defend themselves, after all. People in my country liked to pretend that after wife-beating was taken off the streets where everyone could see by the police, the problem was solved when it obviously wasn't, it just continued to happen at home as it always had. Our western societies hated to admit it and I imagine Korea would be no different. But what does the law say, what does society say? Do men who are wife-beaters get regularly punished by law enforcement and socially ostracized for their violent behavior? What even counts as wife-beating to the law and the general population? Slapping, pushing, does he need to use a stick? What about abuse that doesn't involve beating at all, like starving or emotional abuse? What about the children, are they punished through beatings by their parents? Do they learn that violence is a fine way to punish those who have irritated you?
Those are questions that every society should ask itself because abuse towards the weaker is a standard human vice everywhere you go unfortunately and there will always be people slipping back into it even if society no longer condones it. How much has really changed depends on the answers at large. The answers will probably never be ideal, but they should at least paint a better picture than women saying "At least he doesn't beat me."
But, as a German, let me tell you this: If you want your society to shake a nasty reputation, the society itself will have to out of its way to do so. Saying "This is now and that was then." won't solve anything. Your father's example is honorable, but it will take more than that. You can't expect individuals to be able to fix a whole society's reputation simply by being better people and you can't expect others to take these individual examples as proof that the whole society has changed for the better. My grandfathers never killed anyone, but they, due to no fault of their own, grew up in a society that enabled a genocide and that of course, hated to talk about it for a good while after WW2. Calling my grandfathers genocidal fascists would have been objectively unjust, but I can hardly blame people for thinking of Germans as a whole this way after WW2 because genocidal fascism was what German society at large had enabled. When the children of that post-war era (not my grandparents, the children right after) grew up and realized what horrors their parents had enabled and kept quiet about, they didn't shrug and say "Well, we don't do this anymore", they rebelled. It was a whole cultural movement that forced German society at large to re-examine itself. If these generations had chosen to just go and sin no more in silence or worse, doubled down on nationalism and antisemitism as a significant cultural movement instead, I doubt Germany's reputation would have recovered as much as it did after WW2. Of course, that was a completely different world than Korea was and is, but I hope the example helps my point of individuals vs society nonetheless.
@@rainpooper7088 Sorry for not bringing objective evidence but personal experience. But in my knowledge, the campaign for domestic violence is spread in 1980s. And then a law part, it was estalblished in 1998, and improvised for heavy punishment in 2000s, defines threatening and martial rape as illegal in 2011, and the court punished actual martial rape in 2013. Number shows that the physical violence was 15% in 2004, 11% in 2007, 7% in 2013, 3% in 2016(from the report of the 20th anniversary of the domestic violence prohibition law).
on one hand i feel like i was tricked into a history lesson as most of this video has nothing to directly do with gacha drama, but on the other hand it was incredibly educational and informative.
i remember when the limbus company controversy happened and i was confused about the details as all i knew was that a woman was wrongfully let go from the company and that their apology tweet wasn't received very well. knowing all the context from these past 2 videos is very important regardless of the gacha drama. good video!
How Moon handles it is indeed very well done
i absolutely appreciate the coverage of the true systematic issues that allow both sides to be able to hopefully empathise with each other. far too often we see only one side getting brought up and entirely ignoring the root of the problem, this two parter was a well rounded well spoken masterpiece
South Korea: Hey Japan and USA, how your gender politics?
USA (and most western countries): my gender politics is still toxic and messy.
Japan: mine is going pretty slow.
South korea: Oh yeah, well watch this!
When there's an extreme position, just assume there is always a Korean thats even more extreme and willing to escalate.
I'd say the US is more socially conservative than the vast majority of european countries. It would be nice if someone could verify that though, as my country is typically seen as especially progressive
@@arthurhenningsson2166 Depends by state by state and hell even city by city.
@@arthurhenningsson2166
It's easily verified by the fact that centerist policies like universal healthcare does not have universal support in the "left wing" party in the US.
@@arthurhenningsson2166 I'd say that when it comes to gender and orientation and again, is largely state or region dependent. Though I think in general, it's the inverse when it comes to race and ethnicity.
Half Korean here. To be completely honest, I'm happy I'm Canadian and that my grandparents moved to Canada. I've been watching online content about Korean culture, and I gotta say that it must be incredibly stressful to simply be a Korean citizen. Everyone seems to be looking forwards to performance for every metric, and the collectivist nature means that everyone is judgemental to all hell about everything.
Simply put, I'm not a very successful person. I would be skinned alive and left to rot in the nearest dumpster if any part of my very-extended Korean family knew anything about me.
Honestly, I'm just glad I'm genuinely happy on an average day, and that I don't have much to prove to anyone else.
And that I drink my respect women juice. That's also really good.
Well said. I'm 26, and it took me 22 years to get _somewhat_ stable (due to bipolar disorder & ADHD). Given how unsuccessful I was for 22 years and the way that mental health is "treated" in Korea, I'm really glad I was born in the US and not SK. (Or Japan or China for the same reasons.) I *_strongly_* doubt that I would've stuck around on Earth for 16 years if I was born there, let alone 26.
I'm happy most days, I'm able to pursue my goals despite a very slow start, and my family has been very understanding about my problems. Good enough for me.
I just want to clarify that I'm not nationalist at all, despite being as American as spending ridiculous amounts of money to fight wars on abstract concepts (i.e. very American). I really dislike making statements like "my country is good, other countries are bad" because many Americans do that and make embarrassments out of themselves. But I have to make exceptions.
Also, you have good tastes in juice, that's a great flavor and more people should drink it. Hopefully it enters worldwide distribution soon.
Finished the video, that's fucking depressing. You guys truly live in an oligarchy. As much as my own country has issues with various corporations and name brand politicians, (bombardier HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA - if you want more information look up Toronto Streetcar procurement, it's really fucked) we don't have the level of direct corruption where politicians can blatantly get off scot free from bribing the government.
We generally have to deal with our best personnel and brightest students leaving for the US to gain more fame and money, and the fact that our politicians don't know what infrastructure is. As Canada actually has very little arable land because our country is mostly pure rock when you go north past the great lakes, most of us live near the US border simply because that's where our food is. We have the comparative population of Poland for context, while we're the second largest country on earth. A bit yikes. From what the video says, it looks like that's happening similarly in Korea too.
Honestly, our favorite pastime is discussing US politics because they directly affect us more than our own politicians sometimes, and we have similar problems on smaller scales. Our main issue is that we're kind of treated as a joke because we don't have a military budget or a willing population. As literally 1/4 people are immigrants, it's hard to make people patriotic beyond "hey look at everyone else imploding, good thing we're stable" and "oh god look at the idiots below us", usually because they have massive ties to their own home countries. Heck, there was a recent incident of a Canadian guy getting assassinated by the Indian government while he was in his home in Canada, via two Indian agents, and we kinda didn't do shit afterward besides sending an angry letter. He was championing a new state on the edge of India called Khalistan, but the reaction from most of the people I know was "why was he doing that in Canada when India is on the literal other side of the world".
It's a general situation that various immigrants protest for their home countries every weekend in Toronto, and the major (non-bonkers) Canadian media never picks up on it because it's so common.
There are more Koreans then there are Canadians. The entire US state of California is about our entire population.
Lads, you're welcome to move here lmao. We've got plenty of space for new friends.
@@bane2201 I'm 26 and nigh on unemployable hahahahahhhahahhaahaa (but like.... the family I still talk to are cool and understanding lol. Which is to say my aunt and grandfather)
Also gods yea people who think their country is good n others are bad should prolly look at their own country closer lol
@@royfromsmashbros4857 I haven't finished the video, but you ended up talking about Canada a lot at the end of this comment, so I just wanted to thank you for the lesson about the country (I don't know much about Canada and I'm very curious about it and considering moving there lol).
Also nice Roy pfp 🥺 a fellow FE fan?
Yeah I lived in China for 20 years before going ‘back’ to Korea. Talking to people on anything deeper or even any feminist theory is… just don’t even try lmao.
I also have AuADHD and it is dogshit, if you’re not a kid with extreme case (and not a guy) you’re never going to get a proper diagnosis, they don’t treat Autism as a spectrum here eugh.
Either way most Koreans here are horribly bigoted even outside of being sexist so being queer doesn’t help, it’s like trying to be as unremarkable and not yourself in a system that actively despises your existence.
I think it’s one thing to deal with societal bigotry but when you’re marginalized and have to fight the legal system to just exist properly it’s just unlivable.
Anyone else notice how the MGG (Male Gatcha Gang) first response to any woman questioning them is violence? It’s like their one move, and screaming loudly
Spend any time on the internet as a woman and it's always the first response.
Isnt it the response they get, when they try to advocate for themselves? I'm not excusing anything bec. I dont want to take away from the men, who do not engage in sexist violence.
Only, it seems to me that sexist violence cant be separated from all the other hierarchical violences: the average Korean adult men are also under the injunction to "stay in their place" unless they risk being targeted too.
If I read, stories about military services correctly: bullying and abuse is very prevalent. It's also apparently prevalent in schools, at the workplace, etc. The only institution, I havent seen mentioned is the family (outside of in-laws) but what are the chances that familes are a "safe" bastion in the midst of all that systemic abuse.
[I'm not making any judgments against Korean people, as their version of the "gender war" might be "extreme" but the values (and methods) underlying it are common to most countries]
I feel like "rad-fem" (?) occupy a similar scapegoat role as Black people/"immigrants"/Jewish pp/etc. in the us, uk, france, etc.
Chinese internet folks seems like not care of what happen in Korean internet drama. But when the "culprit" happen to be a Japanese or if it affecting Chinese "culture and dignity", oh boy it's completely different matter.
As someone whose read Korean Webcomics (manhwa) on Webtoon for years, death of the self (don't kill me youtube) has been such a recurring theme that it really felt concerning. Sadly it looks like a lot of my concerns were true. Its starting to make sense of why there tends to be so many power fantasies with the most picture perfect yet hollow wafius and husbandos. Still I enjoy comics like Tomorrow and Dr.Frost trying to cover these problems in a respectful manner and I would highly recommend them for anyone wanting look more into the culture.
So I'm going to assume my earlier reply is hidden since I can't see it on my phone-
One series that particularly has the themes of the the protagonist being self-unalived is ORV (Omniscient Reader's Viewpoint), whose protagonist is relatively famous within the english-speaking sub-community for seeing his own unalivement as a solution to multiple problems, explicitly using it as a solution I think at least 5 times in the series, with two times in particular being relatively themed around the idea of him unaliving himself to my memory.
You can imagine the metaphors that could be made on your own, I think.
@@azure663 CZcams has been pretty weird about those shadow comment removals, they still end up in the count but now even the poster can't see them. (Where as before you needed a second device to determine if it was hidden.) And it's hard to tell what part of a seemingly innocuous comment triggered the AI to flag the comment for hiding and no way for us to right it. :(
@@WindsorMason I mean, at least in my comment I know I made reference to unaliving and self-unaliving in much less...Family-friendly shortstuber terms, so I can make a good guess- like an excellent guess!
@@azure663 haha, yes, yes, that is a good point about this instance. Though I was speaking in more general terms when we don't have an obviously triggering word or topic like that to assume the cause to have been.
"self unaliving" is the common botdodging euphemism ffr (if u already knew this or simply do not care then srry for bothering u haha /gen)
This is one of your best videos. I relish being gacha-baited and then instead given a condensed history of modem south Korean politics
I feel like that's the best part about this channel. History channels by themselves can be a tad dry, but having multiple running discussions sewn together later as an explanation around games makes it much more digestible for me. I love thinking "oh, okay, neat. But how is this foreshadowing going to circle back to now?" It's strangely exciting.
A Small Correction for the Video, at about 1:34:10, Arknights is stated to be "A Korean Game", which is incorrect. Arknights is developed by Hypergrph, a Shanghai Based Chinese Company.
Yostar is not a developer either, it is a publisher for games such as Azur Lane and Arknights for their Global, Japanese and Korean versions.
I'm a young Korean male. Although I do not fully agree with your analysis, as I feel like you missed a few points here and there, yet I see a lot of insight in your analysis. You seem to have done a lot of research and I appreciate it.
One thing I'd like you to know is that nobody thinks men should be the sole breadwinner in Korea anymore, and it's not good news for women either. This might have been true maybe 20 years ago, but not anymore. Not even very old people who have traditional Confucianist mindsets think that way. In Korea, greed comes before ideals. If a woman does not work in a family, she is treated with similar disrespect that men face. Women are in the same competition, yet with a significant pay gap. Many South Korean men do not want to acknowledge it, but numbers don't lie.
I'd like to point out another thing. I agree that the witch hunt for "femis" has clearly gone too far, especially the search for "Megalia hand gestures". But I have to disagree with your comments about YOMI. This (1:33:50) could have been a joke, but this (1:33:58) clearly isn't. If you speak Korean, you would know. The word she used here (한남) for "typical Korean men" is often considered to be a derogatory slur and would offend virtully all Korean men. Also, she didn't _just_ say Korean men should be purged. She said the equivalent of "I want all Korean men dead", but worse. Look up the word (en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E6%BB%85%E7%A8%AE, en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%EB%A9%B8%EC%A2%85 ). It literally means genocide.
25:20 WOMAD wasn't "allegedly" extreme. It was hated by feminists and literally everyone else as well. That homophobic forum was absolutely disgusting. It was literally infested with nazis and paedophiles.
From Wikipedia: "On November 19, 2017, a member wrote a post on the WOMAD forum claiming that she had raped an Australian boy. She uploaded photos and videos allegedly portraying her raping the boy. WOMAD members showed support for the writer, leaving comments saying that they would pay to watch the videos of the sexual assault."
Genuine question good sir, I want to ask you a genuine question, and I don't want you to get offended but it's OK if you do, really just looking for an answer here. How can you get offended if someone is insulting your group, like for example if you are a man and they are insulting men, even all men including you, When that group that you're in, is held up to be above and better than the other group or groups in question?
Especially if that is the reason why their group has less power. is that not enough?
@@jonnyrango9920 This has to do with one other thing I disagree with the creator. The Confucianist system is more subconscious than conscious nowadays. Apart from really old people (at least 70+), Confucianism is mostly seen as a relic of the past and something to be discarded. It's just that the deep mark of Confucianism isn't something that will go away in a couple of decades. It will last, subconsciously, for decades, maybe even centuries.
Young Korean men do not _consciously_ feel like they have power over women. In fact, many young men who participate in this conflict consider the exact opposite (that women have power over them) to be true, which is why they're lashing out against women. Of course, this is not true, but there is a reason behind why they think so.
The first reason is mandatory military service. The Korean military is still ridden with abuse, ill-treatment and malnutrition that some people get beaten to death there. South Korean men think it is unfair for them to serve in the military, while women don't. They don't feel like they get enough respect for serving in the military (which is true, they get absolutely none). The only compensation men used to get for the two years lost in the military was a policy where men would be rewarded with extra points in certain exams for serving in the military, but the policy was abolished because it was ruled unconstitutional and sexist (which it actually was). Now there is absolutely zero compensation (this is a problem).
The second reason is that Korean men believe they are the victims. They believe feminist websites like Megalia and WOMAD can do much more horrible things than male forums and not be held accountable. They believe feminists get support in the press, even when they say sexist things. They feel like when they do anything that remotely sexualizes women, the whole world is after them, yet when women openly sexualize men and falsely accuse people of being misogyny, they do not receive any penalty for their actions. They believe it is unfair for female prostitutes to receive government aid while they get prosecuted for meeting them. Of course, this is not the truth. Megalia was shut down. WOMAD is under police investigation for its various heinous crimes and never got any support from the press.
I don't think there was any intentional propaganda. This "gender war" was originally only prominent in extremely toxic communities like WOMAD and Ilbe Storehouse, but when those two communities got exposed and shut down in the late 2010's, this conflict spread like wildfire across other websites. And then in 2019, when COVID-19 hit and even more people stayed online, the flame war gained even greater momentum and forever changed the country's political landscape. I feel like the conflict's dying now in 2024, with both sides agreeing to disagree (or rather, agreeing to hate each other in silence).
Going back to your question, Korean men do not feel like they have power over women. And even if they did, the word she used is "한남/한남충", which encompasses both racism and sexism (honestly, impressive). The word "한남충" implies that a) Korean males are inferior to white men, and b) are worthless parasites. It can be translated as "worthless Korean man-worms (in contrast to superior white men who're considered to be more beautiful and non-sexist)". If someone called you a worthless worm, wouldn't you be offended, regardless of his of her power?
This is a popular misconception but Arknights is not developed in Korea, it is developed by Hypergryph which is located in Shanghai, China like Mihoyo. It is however Published by Yostar which is also based in china and has an office in Japan as well. I won't say that this invalidates your points since a big chunk of yostar's audience is korean but I just wanted to put that out there. This was a really good in-depth video I hope to see more from you ^^
Hopefully this will get pinned!
Props on miHoYo for just ignoring the toxicity and not giving in. I know they get criticism for ignoring everyone TBH. But here's a case where it was a good thing.
I try to avoid any social media surrounding games I play. Too much social media is bad for everyone's mental health. Best way of dealing with toxicity is to ignore it altogether. It's an issue for content creators, especially streamers, as well. The experienced ones just get a team of mods to delete anything stupid and handle their other asocial media platform posts.
Huh didnt he mention that Arknights is from China already?
@@SHEESHAW100 at 1 point in the video where he was talking about Furina's designer he said something along the line of "another game made in korea named Arknights"
@@krozareq blud never heard of the bunny girl accident they gave in super hard lol
I'd like to also recommend "The man who faked human cloning" by BobbyBroccoli, which also talks about the Korean political culture in regard to science.
BobbyBroccoli is a fantastic creator, glad to see him mentioned here
broccoli also goes over some of the nuance, but if i recall (after not having seen the vid in a while), it was mostly summarized as an effort made with national pride. hearing moony's 3-4 hour nuanced explanation puts a lot more of that video into perspective, maybe even understanding the motivations for some of the characters in that story.
Good pick, I'd also add videos on the MV Sewol also pair well, especially to give more context to Park Geun-hye's presidency. The Brick Immortar videos are good for this.
A lot of them are edited in such a way to avoid slander as well. In actuality they are often much worse than depicted in some of these videos. That women president in the video is basically a mass serial killer for instance. Though for some reason she always gets her crimes downplayed every single time I see her talked about. She's literally the most vile human on the planet right now.
i'll watch it
Moony out here making me a more well rounded and empathetic thinker one video at a time. Thank you, thank you
As always thank you so much Moony for the insightful and detailed research, scripting, editing, etc.
These kinds of essays are incredible in many ways, but the philosofical undertones you instill into all of these are incredible. They really make the content worth it for me. Not simply depressing or dread inducing, but bittersweetly uplifting.
As a Korean that was mostly raised in the US, going though 3rd-12th grade and 4 years of college before coming to Korea for my military service, I really didn't have lot of historical context beyond the small bits I gathered from media like CZcams. This series was actually a learning experience for me in terms of the history and the deeper roots of the society. Once again, I appreciate this series being more about the deep intricacies of the issue and less about how ridiculously stupid the gender issues centered around the gacha community is getting. I initially didn't know how to feel about this series since it brings what I deem as an extremely embarrassing side of our culture and society to the outside world, but after everything I'm glad this was made. As a Korean with a lot of western values, I feel like South Korean is going through its own version of the Galapagos syndrome. People need to realize how ridiculous they look to people outside of this country, like the reaction they received by the Chinese community when they brought up their issue with Genshin. I just wish that people understand that this gender war in gacha games was merely an outcome of many years of gender conflict. Thanks again for a great video.
Well, at least in South Korea it's hysteria from working class males.
In the West, it's Reddit CEO, movie celebrities and elite university students who are hysterical about oppression while having total control over academia, the media and the state.
In South Korea at least, those whining don't have a silver spoon in the mouth.
China is not that different than South Korea, just 10 years late
@@user-wt8zh1bx8y huh but games from china at least knows how to ignore some internet dcinside trolls
@@nakjiducbabmasiser7170 They bend the knee just as quickly actually. Because CN Otakus are quite infamously known to attempt on the developer's lives when their demands are not met
@@user-wt8zh1bx8y So.. Korean and chinese are similar? chinese didn't listen to Korean dcinside incels because they simply don't care outside of china?
The "do not marry a Korean man" talk reminds me HEAVILY of the talk a lot of Canadian families have with their daughters about dating hockey players (Hockey Canada literally has a slush fund of hush money for when their players SA someone because of how common it is). It's really sad that I'm pretty sure most people in the audience, even if not from a culture that gives their daughters the "korean man" talk as you describe, have a cultural equivalent where they can go "oh that's the hockey player/xyz speech"
i think thats professional sports in general, i am aussie and i hear on the news all the time some aussie football player has SAed a girl only for him to get off Scot free
Oh yeah I’m korean and I got this talk and heard this talk, tbh the only person in my extended family to have a boyfriend is one who has a Chinese boyfriend (it’s not perfect in China by any means but compared to Korea anything seems better lmao)
I'm from Toronto and I have literally never heard of this.
The common factor within the "don't date x/y/z" warning isn't really hockey (x), being korean (y) nor any z that might come to mind. The common factor is power.
Ice Hockey is one of Canada's strongest, most popular sports and its [male] players are thusly awarded greater power in the forms of high paychecks and social capital. Wealth is a power in & of itself: social capital can mean preferential treatment, connections with other powerful persons, and greater sway over public opinion.
Don't date [z] men... because the power dynamics between you and your partner will be more skewed in THEIR favour.
I had a Korean classmate in college twenty years ago who gave the class the Korean talk actually along with a lot of other bits of Korean life stories.
This was far more insightful than I was prepared for. Thank you for putting so much effort into these two vids!
this was brilliantly made, thank you for empathizing with the pain of all involved, I'm not sure how much one youtube video will change, but you absolutely affected my understanding of the situation of why the men punch down, and I couldn't be more appreciative.
In high school, I was casual buddies with a first-generation Korean immigrant guy (let's call him X), and also, good friends with a very outspoken feminist girl (let's call her Y). They ran in different circles, so they only really knew of each other by reputation, and through me.
Watching this reminded me of a long-forgotten conversation I had with X.
X: "Isn't Y a feminist? How can you be friends with her?"
Me: "What do you mean?"
X: "Doesn't she hate all men? How can you be friends with her?"
After pointing out that Y demonstrably did not hate all men (because I'm male, and we were friends and remain friends to this day), X dropped the subject. I remember being pretty confused, because it was a pretty striking thing to believe about Y when, to my knowledge, the two had never really interacted.
Checking the dates on the Megalian movement, however, it lines up almost perfectly with when I knew this guy. I don't think I have a point to this little anecdote, but seeing the attitude Korean gatcha gamers have towards feminists made me go, "Oh, so that's what it was..."
Most feminists in the west aren't much better than Megalia though, just less openly evil and bloodthirsty.
@AltereggoLol1 Lol keep seething incel 😂
@@AltereggoLol1id argue that most is an overgeneralization. Most of the ones you hear about, sure. That's sensational news when some whackjob screams that all men should die or something similar. But most feminists I know and see online are generally pro female and not anti male. I feel like we only see the extremist on media anymore.
@@AltereggoLol1 because ideologies are on a spectrum, in the same way a person can go from “redditor” to “murderous incel”?
@@AltereggoLol1 every one diferent, so how can you generalize an entire group of people? i could say americans are fat, there are statistics that support that, but its not the whole country, there are many factors that alter the probabilities blah blah
i hear way to many people hating feminists, by generalization of a few bad apples
Arknights is developed not by Yostar in Korea, but by Hypergryph in Hong Kong. Yostar is the *publisher* of Arknights' global server.
Edit: As further clarified below, Hypergryph is based out of Shanghai, China, not Hong Kong. Either way, it is definitely not a Korean game.
Thank you for the clarification, Flower!
@flower7671 Hypergryph is based in Shanghai, not Hong Kong, so I wonder if it was up to HG they would have just ignored it same as Hoyo.
@@Sinbios You're right, sorry, I checked closer afterwards. It was really weird all around, like Arknights KR was covering their asses all while the rest of the world shrugged. Or posted 🤏
This is what most likely did in fact happen, as Arknights KR would report revenue separate from other Arknights branches. They have to cater for the local crowd and local profits. However, since Arknights is developed in China, they HG wouldn't actually change anything in the game. What was removed was community-publisher collab art that was uploaded to the Arknights KR CZcams channel as part of a Korean event - hence, it was more Yostar issue. Had they come after main-game art like they did with Hoyoverse, I doubt much would have come of it (and perhaps that why they went for such a low-profile event over the doubtlessly prolific Korean artists in Arknights - heck, it's basically public knowledge that Ina, a Korean Hololive vtuber, did art for Arknights.)@@flower7671
@@Sinbios As far as I know, Yostar KR was responsible solely for that, and it had a reason...
Yomi's art for Arknights wasn't a "official" art, but a commemorative art, that was published by Yostar to the Korean player base
Genshin art was the character design...
for as much i was kinda impressed with how mihoyo acted we need to agree that removing a commemorative art that was done for only one server is a lot easier to do than to remove the core of an entire update to a game... and that makes mihoyo action less of a """moral""" one but one simply based on business
Your editing and show writing are amazing. Each time you swap between the GenderWar and the Historical segment, I am annoyed because I want to continue hearing about the previous segment. You're so good at this. My dude, stop whatever the fuck you were doing before THIS kind of content, and stick to it. You have found your gold. Do not fucking let it go. Do not fucking water it down.
"Meanwhile, back at the ranch"
I absolutely love how you intertwined the understandibly brief cultural and political history of Korea with the storyline of this drama. Very well done!
The entire time I heard of all those people forcing nexon of all companies to bow to their demands... I was just thinking "why get mad at an artist when you could demand they stop making their lootboxes increasingly worse and milking half a billion dollars from you?"
Like... you could enact so much better change, and they use all that time and energy on which hunts.
Glad you mentioned it at the end. Great video.
Can't expect much from the stupid people who invested in these kind of games in the first place. They are stupid.
But then you'll have to contend an upper rung of the hierarchy, men who are richer than you
"They can get rid of the women, but lowering our profit margins is where we draw the line."
- those companies probably
I think they accept that gachapon intentionally sucks in a way that it's silly to complain about with any seriousness.
When your demand is something that does not threaten their profits or their power, it's a lot easier to get what you want.
Y'know, as someone who has zero personal stake in literally any aspect of this and was really just looking for a decent video essay to do repetitive tasks to, I just wanted to say that this two-parter was _astonishingly_ (and somewhat unexpectedly) good. It's always nice when video essays about seemingly petty, vapid issues turn out to be genuinely compassionate and also very informative about the wider background, while also being just plain nice to listen to.
So, yeah. Thanks for the unexpected amount of knowledge!
Same, truly fascinating. This video got recommended to me via Genshin drama videos I'd been watching recently.
Yeah, I came in expecting some easy dunks against misogynistic behavior and left with a heavy heart over the underlying socio-economic problems at the root of what, from the outside, looks like petty overreaction. It's a reminder how social issues are interconnected in ways that aren't always apparent and how difficult they are to resolve by definition. It's easy to say the solution is to punch up instead of down, but how do you spread that ideology against a millennia of cultural inertia?
Bit of false information tho
@@warmachine5835Punch up 😂
Agreed, started as a desire for something to keep my mind sane while doing tedious excel-ing. Now I am off work, and spent almost 2 hours at home engrossed.
Absolutely incredible video! The amount of research and analysis of these historical and not so historical events is something every documentarian should strive for. Honestly, this two part series could be released as any other documentary and it'd be better than most of them that are coming out right now. Thank you for covering this extremely interesting (but depressing) topic.
This was legitimately incredible. The history, the analysis, the research into internet culture. A million kudos to you for your amazing work. I learned a lot today.
I am Korean, and I feel tremendous despair in this reality of Korea. If you need a translation of the materials in Korean, I will cooperate. Please feel free to comment because it is a favor.
Additionally, you have to deal with how the local wiki in Korea distorts this topic. This has a huge impact on the closed worldview of Korean men.
You have to look at those horrible wiki documents.
Wiki can be the worst when it comes to politics, people always distort the truth
you should reach out to moony this video definitely needs korean subtitles
The Korean workers are one of the first to see the future of all developed capitalist societies. If you can find a way to fight against the corporations, please do. If you can find a way, so do we in our future. I want to believe that we can save our societies from corporate greed.
Solidarity!
What's striking and incredibly depressing about all of this to me is just the extreme lack of empathy, It's all anger and accusations to everything. They did this so we did it back to them seems to be the story for so many of these examples.
Revenge is a common theme in both Korean history and fiction. Even One of Korea's most famous films (Old boy)is a pretty gruesome revenge story
The cycle of abuse.
It's easier to lash out than stop and think and feel. Especially as this is what their whole lives are and are built upon. How can people see and accept that their whole way of life is corrupt when they are pretty much fighting for survival. It's like a beaten dog biting at people trying to feed it.
When Empathy is exploited by everything in your daily life you can't have any.
so incredibly informative and crafted in a way to not only be digestible, but highly impactful. learned a lot and will be thinking about this for quite a while
Such an amazing video, well researched, educational and eye-opening, I hope you keep making videos in the future and wish you all the best in life.
Thank you for your generosity, Percival! I am so glad that you enjoyed the video!
i know it happened after the video had been done but recently nikke got involved in a finger controversy where an illustration got taken down because of a suspected pinching gesture. the twist is that the illustrator wasn't even korean and likely isn't even aware of the situation
At this point people are going to get harassed by Korean men for using an Apple Vision Pro, whose user interface consists entirely of making pinching gestures
Wait till they learn how gun are holden
another incident not mentioned here that's only tangentially related but add further fuel to the fire is that maplestory was exposed for manipulating item drop rates to almost zero percent for a decade and was only fined (a relatively small amount compared to what they earned) for it
Korean male Gacha games players are so pathetic lol. I thought CN male players were worst.
@@janetestherina7169 oh do NOT get me started on the myriad problems of ffffffffffucking nexon
lowkey peak timing that the nikke controversy happens immediately after the video. whoops.
Well then, I’m never going to be able to view Korean media in the same way again.
holy shit I knew this channel dives really deap to make informative video but this was really insightful, especially coming from me being male korean citizen
Not to lie I began watching this 2 part series with the attitude of "lets see how much this western man can get right about south korea" and ended with the insight of well organized perspective I would've had hard time achieving on my own. Thank you
While the historical context given in this (and the previous) video is incredibly fascinating and delivered with obvious skill, I think the greatest success of this video in particular, is the pacing and flow; serious and heavy historical and cultural information about a (to me) completely unknown peoples, yet incredibly easy to listen to.
Thank-you so much for covering this topic Moonie!
I learned more about Korean history than I expected to.
I also wanted to comment... that the Korean people have no real outlet for this aggression but one another. Not just because of the Neo-Confucian mindset, but because there are inherent dangers with protesting their government. The Protests of Daughter Park were a rarity, as it took place throughout all the nation and targeted the government as a whole. That isn't normal, and would normally result in the main instigators, most vocal members, and others, being added to "The Little Black Book." That was the nickname given to a small book that KCIA members carry with them when they observe protests that occur in South Korea. The contents of the book are then debriefed, and the information added to a database of "undesirables" who become almost unhireable amongst the Chaebols, who also have access to this list of "undesirables." The fastest way to get added to the list is by protesting the government, openly, in an area that isn't designated a protest zone (Universities and outside American Bases. More on the last in a bit.)
The Book usually is continuously updated, with additional information added if they find a person has attended multiple protests, including ones that are in the designated protest zones. The only way off the Book is by not attending a protest for quite some time. I had heard rumors you could also throw other people under the bus to get off of it, but I was never able to confirm that while I was dealing with the KCIA. Universities in South Korea are one of the few Free Speech zones in the nation, and the American Bases are generally not going to interfere with a protest, and the bases tend to be surrounded by Korean Nation Police (KNP) a branch of the Korean Armed Forces that Korean Men can be assigned to for their mandatory military time, during a protest.
When stationed in Korea, you are briefed about many of the protests, and bases tend to be locked down out of an abundance of caution, but many of the protests that target American military bases in South Korea tend towards being outlets for Government actions. I personally watched the progression of one of these protests, the KCIA and their garbage attitudes, and the poor KNP who had to stay in Mad Maxx style barbed wire covered buses the whole time the protests went on. I watched the KCIA guys write scribbled notes in their little black books. It is a surreal experience watching a protest and seeing the cogs behind the Korean Government Machine. This was almost 2 decades ago, but, knowing Korea, none of this has really changed.
So you're telling me The Middle's book of vengeance is a real ass thing? Fuck man, PM really is making the world's best satire.
@@ericraululyeetusdelyeetus5028 I, unfortunately don't know the reference, but yeah, effectively, if you get seen at the major protests, doing anything but simply loud talking, you get added to the book.
Another fun fact is that they are very liberal with the use of water cannons against people who aren't being violent... but they won't spray clergy.
@@darkmindaustin Oh! My bad.
For context, the book of vengeance is the "gimmick" of the syndicate called "the middle".
The main point of why the syndicate is so feared is because they're petty and vengeful to an almost comedic degree, and all of them have a book with precise instructions for "retribution" with increasingly niche violations, and almost all retributions are ridiculously harsh, like breaking an arm for somebody who bumped into The Big Brother (The middle higher up).
Of course, the equivalency isn't direct, I can see that much, but there is something to be said about it.
@@ericraululyeetusdelyeetus5028 Other than immediate punishment it is VERY similar haha. Thank you for clarity!
It can be early 90s but I don’t think so about ‘free speach’ at least from mid 2000s(= 2 decades ago). The protest location still should be reported for governments, but it is not limited that much. And in mid 90s and 2000s, When Kim dae-joong and Roh mu-hyeon was a president, They made many changes because they are protests and victims of KCIA.
Although KCIA still keep eyes on protests, sure. But I don’t heard about chae-beol accessing or associating with KCIA. In my knowledge, currently Chae-beols tend to make employers hard to being in Labors’ union rather than target a specific person.
I really appreciate you putting together something so complex and structuring it to be very well understandable for the general audience. Thank you for this.