This was a super informative episode. I typically watch these in small pieces. This one I watched from start to finish and at the end wanted more. Thanks for having him on Erik.
So excited about this episode, i have never shot real benchrest but i absolutely love these videos with the guys from benchrest. So much good info comes from these guys . Thanks for all the great videos
It is very seldom that I am willing to watch a long video all the way through, but I did. Thanks to both of you. Erik, your interview journalism produces some amazing content, and Jeff, thank you for sharing so much, and so many details. I really appreciate both of you.
Another amazing video discussion and so informative by two acknowledged experts in their respective disciplines upholding the belief that tuners work and seating depth influences and matters for best results at the target
Ok Eric, you need to pick Jeff’s brain on primer depth seating and charge weight. I think everyone about fell out of their chair with the virgin brass statement! Outstanding interview
Amateur short range Benchrest and rimfire Benchrest is what I used to shoot. We preloaded and I found out i could usually win bringing 3 different loads 2 tenths difference. Not every time, but a big percentage i would start with the lighter loads in the morning and finish shooting the faster ones. When you have it right the bullet holes do look smaller.😉
Great podcast as usual. Thank you. But man i would love a insight into bullet making. I would love to make my own jacketed bullets. I really enjoy reloading, unlike Erik I'm looking to add processes to my hobby because its just a hobby to me.
Holy Cow ! "The feel thing" - I have been attempting to communicate "the feel thing" for decades ! The best builders and shooters DO IT by feel - some humans are capable of FEELING things that cannot be quantified !
Incredible to me, but it has to be true. Hearing what he said, his loading development has 3 variables, bullet seating, powder load and barrel tuning. And he is able to tell what’s the best load based on 15 cartridges. Any statistician would say that is a insufficient sample size for any meaningful data, nevertheless he is a world champ. You cant argue with results, so the only possible answer is feel.
Another wealth of information video as usual, thanks for your time putting these together. Personally I can’t speak on experiences with tuners or nodes. I have nothing but respect for the guys at Hornady and Bryan Litz but if their findings were true their names would be winning or near the top of their particular disciplines, it’s not. And if nodes/tuners don’t work someone should probably tell the Hornady IBS Team to stop adjusting powder weights and seating depths at their next match.
Was kinda thinking that both of you would have discussed your neck thickness compared to your bullet tension’s. Those little nuggets are still hidden 🤣. I know not really hidden because you have discussed your turned neck thickness before. Just like hearing confirmation on the thickness versus tension. Great interview as always. Keep up the good work.
Curious to know the process Jeff uses to form 6.5 Grendel into 6PPC. Is there a special die ? Looking at the specs. on both cases the 6.5 Grendel is @ .075 longer from base to body/shoulder junction.
Please cannot wait for the bullet making .... In your opinion...is the promethius a better way to measure powders then the new auto trickler and or super trickler.... They are all expensive....but you have experience with all 3? Whats your opinion?
Great video as always. However, probably not fair to make broad statements about "seating depth and tuners not working"... at the end of the testing by Hornady and AB, the answer was more aligned with it being not repeatable and more testing required. Also, it would be great if someone is able to verify whether the barrel deflection/vibration/harmonics actually occur and have an influence on the bullet, before a solution is developed to solve that problem.
Can’t wait for part 2. His products must be the best kept secrets because I can’t find anything online about his dies or bullets. Is it just a personal contact kinda thing to get info ?
When I played Golf I bought the best Ping irons, The best Taylor Made Drivers and it did prove I WAS THE ISSUE, but I was able to improve knowing where the issue was. I have since sold the clubs and I am a Happier person.
Great interview. One of my favorites. He has found what I have in my testing. That bullet run out is a significant factor once you reach a certain point of accuracy. Although some guns/calibers seem more tolerant of it to certain extents. Why do you believe it doesn't matter Erik? I remember that you've said it makes no difference multiple times. Maybe your guns just aren't accurate enough to show it due to the caliber and barrel length? I don't believe a magnum caliber shooting heavier bullets with long, fast twist barrel has the same accuracy potential as a 6mm shooting light bullets in a short slow twist barrel. So it's likely they are just better able to resolve the differences.
Different games. I bet their PPC’s wouldn’t do too good at 1,000 yards. 😁 I listen to everything BR guys say. They test everything and only do what works. But for my rifles, I haven’t seen a difference. As for PPC being more precise at 100 yards, I agree and I want to get my rifles shooting that way.
@@ErikCortina No, they wouldn't perform at 1000 yards unless you eliminated the wind. The point was that you might not see a difference because there are other factors that limit the accuracy of the larger caliber gun configurations used in F-OPEN so that the difference that run out makes isn't visible above the noise. It's not just the PPC. Slow twist shorts barrel 6BR, 6PPC and 30BR all demonstrate accuracy that is almost never replicated by the larger calibers using fast twist longer barrels. These differences don't seem to be explained by just the fact that the larger recoil guns are harder to shoot. Two of the most plausible possibilities are that the additional energy in the cartridge (bigger boom means more barrel vibration) and longer barrels will naturally vibrate at a higher amplitude. This would lower the inherent accuracy of those configurations.
@@MMBRMoften wondered about " inherent" accuracy. So if you're right how'd the uss washinton( i think : an older battleship) sink Yamato ' s sister ship in leytey gulf over and down the horizon in the dark 23 miles away? Why isn't my 3006 that accurate? Ancient bolt? It seems only so good then thats all there is 😢
Great podcast Erik. I do very much like these podcasts as they always have something to learn. The more I listen to the BR guys though, the more convinced I am of the degradation caused by confirmation bias. One thing I will congratulate Jeff for is his sincerity & truthfulness. It's always better for a guy to say "I don't know" than to embarrass themselves with tales & feelings. Obviously , Jeff has something working for him which I think may well be the projectiles. I think out of all the things mentioned, it would be the projectiles which would have the largest impact on dispersion reduction. Most of the rest of the stuff these guys do is nothing more than confirmation bias in my mind. By Jeffs own admission, there is nothing definitive about any of the possible mechanisms involved let alone much if any consensus. Talk to 10 different BR champions, get 10 different answers as to what works but, none of them know why or how. That right there is the epitome of confirmation bias.
@@BelieveTheTarget Or maybe, probability determined that group, on that day. Jeff states quite clearly that he did not know the mechanisms involved & that the things he does seem to work. Neary says a lot more & a lot different. Some BR shooters say to back off on max velocity, others say max isn't enough. Some say jam 15 thou, some say don't jam at all. Some say don't neck turn, some say it's the only way to go. Are you seeing what I'm seeing yet?
@@BelieveTheTarget I suppose the best respectful & hopefully insightful answer would be to ask a question; Why then can Jeff &, everybody else, not shoot at or near their best scores on an ongoing basis? I see two logical answers; 1) Jeff can only shoot good scores every now & again because he really doesn't understand what he's doing. 2) Jeff is able to keep deviation to a high competitive minimum the majority of the time with, probability doing the rounds within a ring of high competitor scores. Don't forget that probability works throughout the entire Gaussian curve for every competitor. They have good, bad & mediocre days. Because of all the factors involved within the shooter, rifle & ammunition system, it is not only reasonable but, logical to assume that there is a theoretical limit to how low the dispersion can get. After that point, probability takes over & we begin to see an increasingly even distribution of exceptionally low deviation ( high scores) amongst the top competitors which, when we look at the long term results, is what we see. Probability isn't just micro, it can be seen & measured at macro levels as well. Governments around the world use statistics every day to plan everything.
Stop lying.There are a WHOLE LOT of rifle diciplines where tuners are legal and nott used by the winners.If tuners really worked consistently , the Browning /Winchester BOSS system would have never been discontinued. I know,. I thoroughly tested 3 rifles with them
@@JamesClark-lw6sw sounds like you’ve got the winning combo and know what works and doesn’t work. Look forward to seeing your name on the top of a leaderboard somewhere.
This was a super informative episode. I typically watch these in small pieces. This one I watched from start to finish and at the end wanted more. Thanks for having him on Erik.
So excited about this episode, i have never shot real benchrest but i absolutely love these videos with the guys from benchrest. So much good info comes from these guys . Thanks for all the great videos
It is very seldom that I am willing to watch a long video all the way through, but I did. Thanks to both of you. Erik, your interview journalism produces some amazing content, and Jeff, thank you for sharing so much, and so many details. I really appreciate both of you.
Our pleasure!
Ok, Brian, Hornady boys and Eric Cortina need to all get together and do tuner tests together.
Hornady boys would shoot a big group and say see it doesn't work. Even though they work for everyone else.
Another great interview
Thanks Jeff and Erik for another fascinating and informative conversation. Please keep them coming 😎 🎯
Man I can't wait for part two on this one!
i really hope to see another one with him. I enjoy the short range benchrest talks
Another amazing video discussion and so informative by two acknowledged experts in their respective disciplines upholding the belief that tuners work and seating depth influences and matters for best results at the target
While I had to break it up into multiple sessions I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of it! I cannot wait for the Bullet making discussion!
Ok Eric, you need to pick Jeff’s brain on primer depth seating and charge weight. I think everyone about fell out of their chair with the virgin brass statement! Outstanding interview
Super interesting.
Too good Erik.
Looking forward to part #2.
Awesome, thank you!
Great video with good info! Thanks Erik!
Glad it was helpful!
"There is a lot going on" - understatement of the century ! ! !
I was just thinking about what you said about brakes and tuners.
@@long-range-eliminator He said "he never touches it after initial setting." Thanks.
Bullet making... yes...would love to learn
Excellent content keep it coming!
Thanks, will do!
My brain is chewing on this ... excellent and soooo much experience and knowledge.
Great to hear!
What an awesome guy!
Amateur short range Benchrest and rimfire Benchrest is what I used to shoot. We preloaded and I found out i could usually win bringing 3 different loads 2 tenths difference. Not every time, but a big percentage i would start with the lighter loads in the morning and finish shooting the faster ones. When you have it right the bullet holes do look smaller.😉
Thank you for the knowledge
You bet!
Fantastic episode . Thanks for all your video's By the way You can reload rimfire cartridges. Long Rifle and 22 Mag can be reloaded but it is a pain.
Great podcast as usual. Thank you. But man i would love a insight into bullet making. I would love to make my own jacketed bullets. I really enjoy reloading, unlike Erik I'm looking to add processes to my hobby because its just a hobby to me.
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it
Holy Cow ! "The feel thing" - I have been attempting to communicate "the feel thing" for decades ! The best builders and shooters DO IT by feel - some humans are capable of FEELING things that cannot be quantified !
Incredible to me, but it has to be true. Hearing what he said, his loading development has 3 variables, bullet seating, powder load and barrel tuning. And he is able to tell what’s the best load based on 15 cartridges. Any statistician would say that is a insufficient sample size for any meaningful data, nevertheless he is a world champ. You cant argue with results, so the only possible answer is feel.
@@Karim_teran Feel - the special something!
Another wealth of information video as usual, thanks for your time putting these together.
Personally I can’t speak on experiences with tuners or nodes. I have nothing but respect for the guys at Hornady and Bryan Litz but if their findings were true their names would be winning or near the top of their particular disciplines, it’s not. And if nodes/tuners don’t work someone should probably tell the Hornady IBS Team to stop adjusting powder weights and seating depths at their next match.
I had a feeling you could make competitive 6PPC brass from 6ARC or Grendel brass.
Was kinda thinking that both of you would have discussed your neck thickness compared to your bullet tension’s. Those little nuggets are still hidden 🤣. I know not really hidden because you have discussed your turned neck thickness before. Just like hearing confirmation on the thickness versus tension. Great interview as always. Keep up the good work.
Curious to know the process Jeff uses to form 6.5 Grendel into 6PPC. Is there a special die ? Looking at the specs. on both cases the 6.5 Grendel is @ .075 longer from base to body/shoulder junction.
Please cannot wait for the bullet making ....
In your opinion...is the promethius a better way to measure powders then the new auto trickler and or super trickler....
They are all expensive....but you have experience with all 3? Whats your opinion?
Its time for Speedy to interview the TSRA Champ!!
😂
Great video as always.
However, probably not fair to make broad statements about "seating depth and tuners not working"... at the end of the testing by Hornady and AB, the answer was more aligned with it being not repeatable and more testing required. Also, it would be great if someone is able to verify whether the barrel deflection/vibration/harmonics actually occur and have an influence on the bullet, before a solution is developed to solve that problem.
I’ve literally shot some of my best groups with virgin 6.5 Grendel Lapua brass out of my 6.5
Does Jeff have a website? All I could find was for his racing business and facebook page.
Could we please get some F-Tr Shooters on
Can’t wait for part 2. His products must be the best kept secrets because I can’t find anything online about his dies or bullets. Is it just a personal contact kinda thing to get info ?
Name of his company is on his shirt.
When I played Golf I bought the best Ping irons, The best Taylor Made Drivers and it did prove I WAS THE ISSUE, but I was able to improve knowing where the issue was. I have since sold the clubs and I am a Happier person.
😂
What cartridge is he referring to in the beginning that used N133 @ 30-31.3 grains? 6 PPC?
Yes, 6ppc.
what is the name of jeffs company?
Great interview. One of my favorites. He has found what I have in my testing. That bullet run out is a significant factor once you reach a certain point of accuracy. Although some guns/calibers seem more tolerant of it to certain extents. Why do you believe it doesn't matter Erik? I remember that you've said it makes no difference multiple times. Maybe your guns just aren't accurate enough to show it due to the caliber and barrel length? I don't believe a magnum caliber shooting heavier bullets with long, fast twist barrel has the same accuracy potential as a 6mm shooting light bullets in a short slow twist barrel. So it's likely they are just better able to resolve the differences.
Bravo ! ! !
Different games. I bet their PPC’s wouldn’t do too good at 1,000 yards. 😁
I listen to everything BR guys say. They test everything and only do what works. But for my rifles, I haven’t seen a difference. As for PPC being more precise at 100 yards, I agree and I want to get my rifles shooting that way.
@@ErikCortina No, they wouldn't perform at 1000 yards unless you eliminated the wind. The point was that you might not see a difference because there are other factors that limit the accuracy of the larger caliber gun configurations used in F-OPEN so that the difference that run out makes isn't visible above the noise. It's not just the PPC. Slow twist shorts barrel 6BR, 6PPC and 30BR all demonstrate accuracy that is almost never replicated by the larger calibers using fast twist longer barrels. These differences don't seem to be explained by just the fact that the larger recoil guns are harder to shoot. Two of the most plausible possibilities are that the additional energy in the cartridge (bigger boom means more barrel vibration) and longer barrels will naturally vibrate at a higher amplitude. This would lower the inherent accuracy of those configurations.
@@MMBRMoften wondered about " inherent" accuracy. So if you're right how'd the uss washinton( i think : an older battleship) sink Yamato ' s sister ship in leytey gulf over and down the horizon in the dark 23 miles away? Why isn't my 3006 that accurate? Ancient bolt? It seems only so good then thats all there is 😢
I want to try
Hummers are real - and perishable !
Interesting place for a light switch... Great video tho!
Thanks for watching!
Great podcast Erik. I do very much like these podcasts as they always have something to learn.
The more I listen to the BR guys though, the more convinced I am of the degradation caused by confirmation bias. One thing I will congratulate Jeff for is his sincerity & truthfulness. It's always better for a guy to say "I don't know" than to embarrass themselves with tales & feelings.
Obviously , Jeff has something working for him which I think may well be the projectiles. I think out of all the things mentioned, it would be the projectiles which would have the largest impact on dispersion reduction. Most of the rest of the stuff these guys do is nothing more than confirmation bias in my mind. By Jeffs own admission, there is nothing definitive about any of the possible mechanisms involved let alone much if any consensus. Talk to 10 different BR champions, get 10 different answers as to what works but, none of them know why or how. That right there is the epitome of confirmation bias.
They literally shoot the smallest groups in the World. Maybe they know a thing or two that we don’t.
@@BelieveTheTarget Or maybe, probability determined that group, on that day. Jeff states quite clearly that he did not know the mechanisms involved & that the things he does seem to work. Neary says a lot more & a lot different.
Some BR shooters say to back off on max velocity, others say max isn't enough. Some say jam 15 thou, some say don't jam at all. Some say don't neck turn, some say it's the only way to go.
Are you seeing what I'm seeing yet?
It was 80 shots. Probability doesn’t work on 80 shots AFAIK.
You can get lucky on 5, or even 20, but 80?
You also heard him say that he broke his own record two other times.
@@BelieveTheTarget I suppose the best respectful & hopefully insightful answer would be to ask a question; Why then can Jeff &, everybody else, not shoot at or near their best scores on an ongoing basis?
I see two logical answers; 1) Jeff can only shoot good scores every now & again because he really doesn't understand what he's doing.
2) Jeff is able to keep deviation to a high competitive minimum the majority of the time with, probability doing the rounds within a ring of high competitor scores.
Don't forget that probability works throughout the entire Gaussian curve for every competitor. They have good, bad & mediocre days.
Because of all the factors involved within the shooter, rifle & ammunition system, it is not only reasonable but, logical to assume that there is a theoretical limit to how low the dispersion can get. After that point, probability takes over & we begin to see an increasingly even distribution of exceptionally low deviation ( high scores) amongst the top competitors which, when we look at the long term results, is what we see.
Probability isn't just micro, it can be seen & measured at macro levels as well. Governments around the world use statistics every day to plan everything.
You made the right choice by going to the Formula One race. Long live Ferrari.
Did he ever say what bullet he shoots?
He makes his own.
Not for MONEY - for the love of perfection; and the Glory of GOD.
Note to self- no bench rest
Funny, the people who WIN are using tuners. In fclass and benchrest.
Weird, but they don’t work. Or it’s the huge multi discipline conspiracy to sell something🙄.
@@nt_wicked_bunch2717 How do you know it doesn't work? The best shooters(most winning) in the world say they do.
Stop lying.There are a WHOLE LOT of rifle diciplines where tuners are legal and nott used by the winners.If tuners really worked consistently , the Browning /Winchester BOSS system would have never
been discontinued. I know,. I thoroughly tested 3 rifles with them
@@Whocaresnoone69 it was sarcasm, hard to relay through text. My bad.
@@JamesClark-lw6sw sounds like you’ve got the winning combo and know what works and doesn’t work. Look forward to seeing your name on the top of a leaderboard somewhere.