NHL Fires Tim Peel, so What's Next?
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- čas přidán 23. 03. 2021
- The issue with NHL officiating predates me watching the game in the early 80s. If the league is considering changing how the game is called in terms of "even up" penalties, now is the time to make that change.
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It won't change anything, he's just a perfect scapegoat since he was retiring anyways.
The Don Cherry effect.
Agreed.
Yep, agreed! It's a scapegoat move for sure.
100%. They all do it. It's a make up call. I don't agree with it, but it's been like it for a long time.
I was a lil shocked that he was fired until I heard that. Way to go NHL...Tim Peel should not be made a scapegoat. The NHL makes makeup calls while trying to cover up makeup calls LoL
Let’s not pretend that the NHL doesn’t tell them do to what he did
I'll push back on that just a bit. It's probably not a strict order from the league, but more of an unwritten rules situation. It just became the way things are done, and nobody talks about it. (Until Tim Peel).
I think he just hates the predetors lol if ever was a ref i would always help the ducks lose cuse i hate em 🤣
Even up penalty calls have been happening since as long as i've been watching hockey and that's not going to change. The only reason this is a hot topic because he got caught with his mic on
@@jackfoster9008 I tend to agree. He probably learned it from the older refs when he was just starting out, and Bettman and the owners tacitly agree so people aren’t complaining (more than they already are) that the refs caused them to lose.
@@jackfoster9008 Hockey Canada had it in their curriculum until about 3 years ago, probably 0 difference in the NHL. Chris Schlenker a current NHL referee from Medicine Hat who has supervised my reffing for 10+ games, encouraged me to do this exact same thing...
Not gonna lie. I'm a little disappointed this video wasn't done with the ref jersey.
Update: I now know why it wasn't worn.
Why wasn't it worn?
@@xNottoCx didn't watch?
@@xNottoCx literally just 1 minute into the video he talks about it
Lol, I'm at work. I can't watch the video yet!!!
Watched the first minute. Got it now. Thanks guys lol
There’s no reward for playing clean hockey if they’re just going to “even up” calls anyway.
Well said. It's a monster the league created long ago. Time for it to end.
What's worse is when you realise this happens in all sport
@@defectiveindustries not to same standard. Most games fouls and penalties are called as they happen. Not ignored. Part of the reason it’s ignored is the penalties in hockey are a little more extreme than other sports
This is my favorite channel. Shannon is on a first name basis in my household.
Edit: RIP Bobby. Truly one of a kind.
Same! My gf knows exatcly who im watching when i have THG video on. :D
I effectively moved back in with my septuagenarian mom for the pandemic. The other day she came in to the room and said "you're watching that guy again."
"Referees don't want to feel like they're having an influence on who wins the game" But that's EXACTLY what they're doing when they're not calling the game as is, if a team is committing more penalties than their opponents then that's 100% on them and they should have to deal with the consequences of that and clean up their game.
What happens when refs miss calls? How do you fix that? It's just as "unfair" as refs adjusting for a missed call after the fact.
@@TelosBudo what happens is the refs do a better job next time. The human element of the game means that things will never be completely balanced, so the most sensible course of action is to encourage refs to officiate games with as little bias as possible. That means fewer makeup calls, it might mean lots of penalties if both teams are crossing the line. Every Fandom is guilty of playing the victim card to deflect from their team's failure.
Exactly. If one team gets 17 penalties and the other gets none, so what? The root of the problem is the dirty ass team. The ref is just pointing it out. It's like killing the messenger and the only time that was cool was in 300. Haha.
@@anthonymitchell501 Exactly. A ref shouldn't need to adjust how they call the game based on the teams. The teams should need to adjust their play if they suddenly find themselves taking way more penalties than the other.
Maybe, it just feels odd that games are left to the chance of a ref seeing something or not, their placement on the ice etc. If there's really bad foul that takes a player out of the game and its missed by the ref, it might seem fair to be a bit more strict on the opposing team for getting away with that.@@casmatt99
So fired for doing what they want him to do...............just wasn't sneaky enough
This is Sparta. You can lie, cheat, and steal as long as you don't get caught.
Tim Peel just for fired because he got “caught” he’s the scapegoat for all of this because every ref does it. It’s just that NHL doing damage control
He’s only been fired because he was stupid and got caught. This is how the game is reffed and it’ll take more than a couple refs being punished to change that.
"The code is more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules."
"WELCOME TO THE NHL, MS TURNER!"
Pirates lmfaoooo
If they're fouling, they're fouling. Call it every single time. You have to take a stand sometimes.
They are imperfect and don't see every foul til everyone sees it on the replay, then they're like "aight, we owe you one" and even up the missed call later on a foul they might not have otherwise called.
If you don't want to do the time, DON'T DO THE CRIME!
Oof, that would lead to a MASSIVE change in the game. As it stands there are probably around 100 penalties per game. Think about players that are trying to get net front position to screen the goalie/tip a puck. There is typically a lot of pushing/shoving/slashing going on that would equate to a lot of penalties. Pretty much the entire game would be changed by calling every single penalty no matter how minor it is.
What I would like is consistency in the calls. If something's a penalty 5 minutes into the game then it should be a penalty in overtime. Ideally it should be consistent from game to game so you don't have to have a "feeling out period" at the start of the game to figure out how far you can go but at a minimum there should be consistency within a game.
His crime was getting caught. We all know the league does this garbage.
If the Refs called the game fairly then the teams who play a dirty style would either spend a ton of time in the box and lose or stop playing that style. Isn't that the whole point of penalties? It's a punishment not a reward.
The problem is that professional sports are a business. You can't sell many tickets if the home team is killing off 12 penalties per game and getting 0 chances on the powerplay. There will be outrage no matter what the refs do.
@@jamesnialG So stop playing in such a way that you take a ton of penalties. Look at the Islanders. They don't get a lot of penalties because of the style of game they play. So just do that. Or change the rules. I don't really care which but it's annoying to see penalties not get called or non calls get called. And it's confusing for new fans.
If, as I suspect, refs are instructed to even up calls whenever possible (and not call penalties on the previously penalised team), I can see the referee's union raising a grievance with Campbell and the League. This could get messy.
All they have to do is pay him until his contract ends. The union only cares about the money. A few hundred thousand a year is peanuts to the league.
@@rogerszmodis exactly. Notice how the NHL didn’t fire him. He is just not officiating games anymore.
I also think it’s important to note that sometimes make up calls are made because the referee who made the call realizes that he made a mistake on the first call, or is told by a linesman or a player they missed something egregious that should have been called. Is that in the rule book, no, but it’s not necessarily bad for the game either.
@@barkerm9 make up calls are always bad for the sport, because a penalty either is or isn't a penalty. If a ref is looking for penalties on one team and ignoring other penalties on the opposing team thats exactly what the NHL should try to get rid of. They won't though
@@TrAvi5link If a referee can make a call to give a team a chance to make up for a mistake the referee has made, I believe it can be a positive. The fact of the matter is that there is no such thing as a perfectly officiated game, and there is also no retroactive method to correct refereeing mistakes once the game is over.
Greg Wyshynski tweeted "you could always tell Tim Peel was a quality ref because he got as close to working the later rounds of the playoffs as the Atlanta Thrashers did"
Hey, the Thrashers were only 23 players, a coach, a GM, and an owner away from being a dynasty.
@@rogerszmodis and a training staff, and a scouting staff and a fan base.
Tim Peel was as good of a ref as Pierre Mcguire was a good coach.
Officiating is a lot like negotiating: if both sides are unhappy, you did a good job
Oh yeah, just make terrible calls all night and you did a good job.
This is foolish. Actual fans of the game aren't gonna be pissed when legit penalties get called on their team
Exactly my goal is to piss off both coaches over good calls. If I do that then I have done my job.
@@nolanvernon6667 when people say the pens announcers are biased and ridiculous. I always think they never watch the games. They toasted pettersson for having 3 penalties in the game. Then we’re wondering how lafferty didn’t get a double minor yesterday against the sabers
Isn’t that exactly the ethos Peel was reffing by?
If one team is playing clean and one isn’t, and the refs are calling that fairly, you’re going probably to have one happy team and one unhappy team.
"Not all teams are clean." Hit the nail on the head. That might be an idea for another video, to identify the dirtiest teams in the league.
Boston, Washington are two of the dirtiest teams.
@@dealy9268 I agree.
Clean teams should have the least PKs. Not this. “At some point our dirtiness won’t get called”
@@teejin669 Honestly being on the east coast I don't see them as often. But games I have seen of them they can get chippy.
RIP Bob Plager. You will be missed. Terrible few years for STL legends.
Imagine if football games were called this way. One team just took 50 yards worth of penalties but the referee says “can’t call anymore penalties or throw any more flags against that team because it wouldn’t be fair so we’re just gonna stop calling against them. They can go ahead and jump off side, pull face masks, hit the quarterback in the head, do pass interference and we won’t throw the flag because we have to start calling some penalties against the other team now”
Exactly. Look at the last super bowl. One team kept taking penalties and the other didn't. They had nobody to blame but themselves.
No, those kinds of penalties still get called. But what all officials in every sport does, is let the small stuff slide. For example, if a team has had 3 straight penalties called against it, the ref will be more lenient about holds, hooks, and stuff like that that they would of called earlier in the game.
@@csolivais1979 I've noticed this in boxing, too. How many DQs have there been in the last several decades? The refs will call fouls for a while but then they'll back off. It's stupid and compromises integrity and well, people quit watching eventually.
It’s common in NBA, wouldn’t be surprised if NFL have it too. Either way fans will think even penalties for both teams are good games and lopsided penalties are BULLSHIT.
LOL these people in these comments think the NFL officiating is fair... LOLOLOL Oh you poor blind fools, all sports are rigged, period.
If they were to call games fairly... and certain teams that played maybe on the dirty side of that line, were getting called infinitely more than the cleaner teams. Maybe the dirtier teams would be forced to adapt, and clean up their hits? 🤔
Absolutely, look even I know the habs isnt the dirtiest team. But they do have some games that they make a ton of stupid little things that are penalty’s.
We need a Tim Peel Podcast
First guest Kerry Fraser
Open talk and throw Bettman and Campbell under the bus for a change
Subscribed.
Would love to hear Fraser explain the no-call on Gretzky's high stick and the Game 6 2004 goal in Calgary.
Amen
YES!!!!!!
@@shawnthompson2303 Not necessarily hearing (unless you read it aloud) but he has explained the high stick: www.theplayerstribune.com/articles/2016-6-7-kerry-fraser-nhl-referee-stories
"I had to make a decision. In referee school, they hammer it into you: Call what you see. Don’t guess. The honest to God truth is, I didn’t see it. I had to eat it. I said, “No penalty.”"
As a Sharks fan I can use a couple of examples from their 2019 run. Game 7 vs Vegas the refs called a major penalty despite not seeing what happened and it was more severe than it should be and created a large controversy (though I don't necessarily entirely disagree with the call, I've discussed it many times elsewhere and don't want to get into the details but at a minimum the wrong person was penalized). Then in the conference finals the refs didn't see the hand pass (there was an article in the Athletic where they interviewed, ironically, Kerry Fraser about what had happened and the analysis showed that it was poor positioning on their parts but they legitimately couldn't see it from where they were)
As for the game 6 2004 goal I'm not 100% certain. If I remember right a Calgary based company analyzed it and determined that a portion of the puck was not completely across the line but I can't find that in a quick google search so I could be completely wrong.
I agree with you 100% and have also been saying this for years. Call what's in the book. That's it. All the other stuff like things being a penalty in the st but not in the 3rd, is just ridiculous. And it is in every sport too.
Remember when Johnny Gaudreau's hands were absolutely obliterated by slashes and none of them were called ?
When/if the NHL embraces sports betting, they’re going to have to look at the officiating I think. The companies won’t want that element of vagueness in important areas
Good point.. money is what would make people actually make a change in their business
Could be a power move to ensure betting doesn't come back next season :o?
@@sydisticsandman the owners want that money. The owners will get that money. Even if they force Bettman to fire any rogue refs and Campbell lol. After how much they lost due to Covid
@@grahamrenfrow8059 I realise they do this year. But hockey isn't gunna make for great betting as so much can be missed or viewed incorrectly ? It will boil over the brokers and company's who cover the betting far too soon. Idk I don't follow other sports so perhaps it's not that different than american football betting? But I'd argue it could be covert way to save face and remove betting in the future. 🤔 tbh I can see it both ways lol just saying
@@sydisticsandman why wouldn’t hockey make for great betting? The potential for prop bets is very high, and while the game to game parity is high, there are trends over a season that creates clear favorites for people to bet on, which is the perfect storm for betting companies. They would’ve raked in alll the money in 2019 with how those playoffs turned out
Been refreshing all day since the announcement for this.
NHL trying to save face when this stuff has been going on for decades. What a joke
I’m glad the isles are the cleanest team in hockey lol
It will be interesting to see what they do about this since the NHL desperately want's to increase it's presence in the gambling/betting community.
If the NHL cared about the integrity of the game, they would not be involved in gambling in any way.
@@deansmith6593 When that kind of money is involved it trumps any integrity for any major sports league, look how corrupt the NFL/FIFA is with this stuff, and make no mistake the NHL wants to be involved in that.
@@SmugCanadian Dancing with the scumbag gambling industry (community?) is a poor idea, whatever the motivation may be.
@@deansmith6593 Unfortunatly it's all about money!
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"Bravo...clap clap."- Homer's brain.
"UGH!! I said the quiet part loud and the loud part quiet."
“In the future I would prefer a nondescript briefcase to the sack with a dollar sign on it.” - Tim Peel
I didn't expect The Simpsons reference in the comments lol
The scene in that episode where Jay Sherman burps at the dinner table has pleasantly been burned into my memory ever since I was a kid.
Barn door successfully closed after the barn is ashes.
My friend and I were waiting on this video today and we both agree that Shannon is a treasure to the hockey community. Very well spoken and fair commentary!
My thoughts before watching: the league knows make-up calls happen (even though they shouldn't be happening), they just had to act because it was caught on a hot mic. I understand the fact that it was caught makes the league look bad, but firing Peel does not change anything or make anything better. If the league wants officials to be accountable, then tell them do not have make-up calls, because then it snowballs further. One unintentional bad call should not amount to many more intentional bad calls, not just in hockey, but in any sport. Mistakes happen, but they should not impact how the rest of the game is called.
This is why it's so hard for people to get into hockey.
Or, like myself, why its hard to keep the passion for it when its almost a complete joke.
@@shapeshafter7348 The Canucks loss the other night? Myers was bleeding and they didn't call it. Maybe they didn't see it, but then to call Motte for "delay of game", handing the win to Montreal.
Happens in all sports, not just hockey
@@johnfunkhauser8201 hockey is the last sport I watch. Used to watch football basketball baseball. Now, just hockey, but the NHL has shown me over the last few years that any time used to pay attention to hockey is in fact a waste of my time, and I'm probably going to give up on hockey soon too
@@Electricalphil he deserved it as he ran armia.
Nothing will change. They’ll just act like he was the only one who ever does makeup calls... and then never acknowledge this again. They can’t investigate every single ref because they won’t like what they find. PR performative nonsense from Campbell because the reffing won’t change, it’s still going to be extremely inconsistent
Exactly
This comment gets 2 minutes. For hooking.
If all penalties were actually called penalties, Boston would have like 1000 more penalty minutes then every other team
No they wouldn't im a habs fan and ill say that boston isn't that dirty they do get away with some calls but everyone does
yup
@@wagglewiggle shut up you
@@raymondclouston6255 what a great argument you made👍
@@-gumby-3381 and I am also a Habs fan
Watching this channel is 1000% better than any kind of hockey news. It's always REAL, by someone who REALLY knows hockey. I find it fascinating learning about all the little intricacies and unwritten elements that go in to the game. Awesome job Shannon.
I reffed roller hockey, and man, I got so much crap from people. Either they thought I shouldn't have called something (which I had to do given what I saw where I was standing) or I was affecting the flow of the game by calling too much. Couldn't win no matter what, and I can only imagine what it's like at the NHL level.
Time to lawyer up Tim!! Imagine other refs testifying!! NHL doesn't want to hear the truth.
Yeah the NHL would settle with him so fast.
I'm sure they will pay out the rest of his salary for the year and not affect his pension in any way, just so he doesn't.
He's still employed by the NHL, he is just not refereeing anymore
The Lemieux early retirement situation and the NHL doing *nothing* is incredibly damning and just plain sad
I remember that series & Roger standing up, one foot on the bench, waving the towel draped over the stick.
I also remember a radio sports guy in Victoria leading off his morning recap of the night’s action with something like, “What do Wayne Gretzky and Tiger Williams have in common? Not much, other than they both happened to score game-winning goals last night.”
Such a great and most importantly correct insight on this whole issue.
As a blues fan I always appreciated how berube never complains too much about reffing even san Jose had the hand pass in the playoffs.
"not all teams play clean" and the less clean they play the more penalties they should expect to receive. That is how it is supposed to work. Yes these refs have been doing it a long time and "know how it works", but that is the damn problem! They've been calling the games in an inappropriate way for decades and decades. It needs to change. Refs should not be managing the game, that is not their job.
If you call the book as it's written, the game will draagggg. But, some of the stuff that doesn't get called does drive me nuts. The cross-checking and stickwork I was never a fan of when I played. My ribs got so bad I had to wear lacrosse rib protectors.
Thanks as always Shannon!
We appreciate you shannon. Thank you for all the great content
Its such a weird system. Personally I enjoy the playoff hockey much more, as the refs are put aside and we get to see actual 5 on 5 hockey.. The Refs definitely have a tough job, with the game being as fast as it is. Although I would much rather see more 5 on 5 hockey, and make the necessary calls, and not the casper the ghost slash, or the stupid looking holding calls.
Anyway, your the man, hockey guy!
I agree completely. I would much rather the regular season look like the playoffs than the playoffs look like the regular season. I think the differences in refereeing stem from the fact that it’s just not physically possible to sustain that kind of play for a 82 game schedule as well as the long playoffs, certainly not if you prioritize player safety the way today’s game does.
Great post . Discussion on this topic needs to happen , with hopes to work towards a better game .
I find it hilarious that IMMEDIATELY after watching the Florida Panthers at Anaheim Ducks game (On Nov 17 2023, for future readers) that this video became my #1 recommended to watch next.
Touche, youtube. Touche.
They should leave the mics on at all times for the refs so we can hear why they think it’s a penalty or why it wasn’t it would bring more clarity
They should be brought up on fraud charges every time they make a poor call or replaced by robots........................................................Vomit
Yep, they do this in Rugby Union. Players are *extremely* respectful of the refs, and you get to hear the refs warning players ("Hands away Eight!") before they call the penalty, and explaining the reason afterwards to the players.
So they should always be afraid of saying something that could get them fired? Sounds pretty KGB to me.
did they actually fire him though? their statement says he won't ref anymore games. i've only seen the word "fired" from news accounts. i think they'll pull him off the ice, but as you said, since he was going to retire after the season anyways they'll probably keep him employed, or at least on the books, until then.
Let me add some additional perspective. I was an ice hockey referee for almost 20 years. Not at the professional level. Not even close.
But there aren’t “even-up” calls as you describe. If a referee calls 3 straight penalties on Team A, they will make sure they don’t miss the next penalty in Team B. It looks really bad if you call 3 straight on one team, and miss one on the other. If that happens, your credibility is lost. So you ‘lower the bar’ for Team B. But you can’t raise the bar on Team A. If Team A commits an infraction you must call it, even if it’s the fourth in a row.
And yes, a penalty in the first period might not be a penalty in the third. It’s called ‘game control’. If you don’t call the ‘nickel and dime’ infractions in the first period you’ll have a bench clearing brawl by the third. Likewise, don’t call a ticky-tacky interference call in the last few minutes of a tie game. Unless there is a real goal scoring opportunity.
In general, the rule is: Call it tight early. Don’t lose control of the game. Get a feel for the game. Keep the focus on the players and the game, not the officials.
The best place to see a penalty is in the stands b/c you can look down and see the entire rink. The worse place to see a penalty is when you’re on the ice. At ice level it’s much more difficult, particularly with 12 really big players skating in front of you. If they want to improve officiating, the referees should be in the stands. Seriously. That’s the very best view of the game. But no sport puts their officials in the stands, and I don’t expect the NHL to either.
Lastly, refereeing hockey, and some other sports, is more art than science. Don’t try to make it more scientific. That would be unfortunate since Bad science is much worse than bad art.
So many people still missing the point. I'm glad you explained the way penalties are given from a practical perspective.
The last line in this video before the like and subscribe is likely how it's all going to go down. NHL: "We got rid of Peel, what more do you want?" Great explanation of the state of officiating in the league. Thank you!
It initiates the argument of whether fairness is justice in making all the right calls, or fairness is equalizing all the calls
“Equality vs equity” as the kids say these days. I know which one is fair.
Equality of outcome is called Marxism.
Refs need to stop calling the game like communists.
Clean teams deserve more powerplays.
While even ups don't necessarily happen that much in other sports, rule changes definitely do exist. It's very noticeable in the NBA and NFL playoffs.
Was waiting for THG analyze and opinion about this
That Flying V had your camera really jockeying with the white balance.
Kinda makes ROR & Kyle Wellwoods 0 PIM streaks even more impressive
ROR is such a dirty player. He played for a few seconds with a broken stick! Goons have no place in today's game and I really think he should get a lifetime ban. (/s)
The unfortunate reality is that so much is let go in games that the game has evolved to the point that if refs were to call everything that happened, we would see endless stoppages and upwards of 10 penalties a game
There could be 10 penalties in a period with the way the game is played.
Then *let that happen*.
@@playswithswordsllc8678 eh, I've watched enough basketball to know that that's mund-numbingly frustrating to watch
As soon as the news broke I was waiting for this video. Thank ya, sir!
good take Shannon, always appreciate your view on things
Good. Yes we'll have some games were power plays are 10-1. That's good. That will teach teams that do not play by the rules to stop comitting infractions if they ever want to win a game. It won't take very many games of being shorthanded for 20 minutes for that team to clean up its act.
Tim Peel has had a reputation as a bad ref for years. There's a reason he's the most well-known ref in the game, and it's not because he makes good calls.
Wes Mcauley is the most well-known ref tho...
Kris Versteeg summed it up perfectly when he showed the blatantly missed calls on players interfering with McDavid: Refs need to start calling the game. Not managing the game.
About 20 yrs ago I remember a game, COL@LAK where the referee, Mike Hassenfratz (try forgetting a name like that) might've been trying to call it straight but the Kings kept taking penalty after penalty and nothing against the Avs. At a point late in the game the Kings coach, Andy Murray, refused to send players out and was himself penalized and ejected. That's the only time I've ever seen a referee lose control of a game. By that time the Avs were up, 5-1, and were just skating around, dumping the puck in for short shifts, running out the clock. That night the Kings had one power play while the Avs had nine.
If they called the games correctly and went straight by the book, then players would be in the box allllll the time.
Or they'd adjust.
@@dsc4178 Exactly. We saw it when the league cracked down on slashing calls a few seasons ago. Now, slashes are nowhere near as common. Players aren't stupid. They aren't going to keep playing the same if they'll keep getting thrown into the box. Players will always adapt.
They'd adjust.
Equality of outcome is called Marxism.
Refs need to stop calling the game like communists.
I don’t think any of you actually get my comment.... or get what the game would look like in the future if they went totally by the book. It would become what basketball ball is with fouls. How many cross checks do you see every game that go unnoticed. A lot! It would make the game more boring with all the stops. Most likely why this was happening in the first place! These refs were trained too do this.
Usually when you see a bad penalty against your team, it's most likely because the other team is up by 2 because of a man advantage and there are 10 minutes left in the 3rd. Pay attention to that everyone, I may or may not be an anonymous source with inside information.
Back in the day the teams had protectors for star players. If you hacked Gretzky you had an enforcer punching you out.
Yep, I talked about this two vids ago, and I would agree with you. How games should be reffed needs to change, and they need to start calling those penaulties they aren't calling and maybe, just maybe, we'll see better and skilled players, rather than encourage the dirty play we've seen in some games.
Been waiting for this one!!!
5:18, oh, basketball rules change a lot, as well.
You nailed this! Great vid. :)
There’s a reason we don’t need to follow the rulebook, imagine a playoff series with like 10 power plays per team
never forget Daniel Sedin led the SCF in PIM
and he got a penalty for complaining he was repeatedly punched IN THE FACE
or at least led Boston in PIM
Seems he was only 6th (lol) on Canucks for PIM.... absurd that VAN (one of the most skilled teams that year) had so many more PIM than B O S T O N
he totally got peeled
I knew the second I heard about this THG was going to cover this. Figured maybe it would be a few minutes in the recap video
Wasn't expecting an entire 23 minute video covering it lol
Great video. I always feel like I'm watching lacrosse in the first playoff round every year with all the slashing that's suddenly allowed
A penalty should be a penalty. All calling "even" penalties does is encourage dirty teams and penalize more clean teams. Refs who won't call correctly shouldn't be refs. As an athlete growing up, it was ridiculously upsetting when umps would call games "evenly" like that, especially when playing against a dirty team. What is the incentive on playing within the rules if that's the case? A team will be shorthanded for too long because said team is known for being dirty? Too bad. Maybe they'll start following the rules if that happens.
Carolina Hurricane fans my self are loving this right now. Serves him right for all his bad penalties before this.
You said it bud... This guy was the dirtiest sack of you know what officiating in the NHL of our generation. He honestly hurt us over and over again for years... Good ridence!!
You nailed it, on this. Thank you for your take. It really helped to change my perspective on this
We need consistency. As Shannon said they need to call it as it is and never move the goalposts. Playoff hockey should be officiated the same as the preseason.
What is getting lost in this conversation is that this is the tip of the iceberg and this isn't about refs - it's about the league. I can only speak to what happens to the team I root for because they're who I watch but I'm sure this happens to teams across the league. I can point to several playoff series where the Sharks were doing well and then suddenly a key player is concussed out of a series and they go on to lose, whether it was Michalek having his head run into a stanchion by Torres against the Oilers, or Stoll elbowing Vlasic in the back of the head against LA. No penalty. No suspension. I don't understand how to enjoy a sport where deliberately injuring people is a viable path to victory in the playoffs.
Perfect. Now get that other goof st Laurent out
Good commentary. It took me a few years after I started following hockey to understand the officiating and the concept of keeping it even, despite possibly one team playing dirty and the other playing clean. Here's one. A team that's trailing late will almost always get a power play in the final 5 minutes of regulation. Its like clockwork. I'd say it happens about 4 out of 5 games and seems to be more certain if the home team is trailing.
This’ll make it into the top 10 stories of the 20/21 season video
The video I've been waitin for all morning. Thanks Shannon
"Nothing is more important than the integrity of our game. Also ignore the fact that my e-mails leaked showing that I told the director of officiating to punish a ref for a penalty call against my son." The NHL is a confirmed joke.
In 2009 when Pittsburgh beat my Wings in the cup final. Pittsburgh in one instance had too many men on the ice and the ref told Pittsburgh that without calling the penalty.
I used to feel that other teams targeted Paul Kariya’s head intentionally. And it seemed to be tolerated at the time.
Get rid of the refs' union and you'll see change right away
How does the Union effect how refs are taught to call the game, or call the game in general?
This is the reason I kinda want all refereeing to be done by computers as soon as possible. Yeah, the computer might screw up at times, but it's unbiased, neutral and completely doesn't care about any outside factor other than what's being done on the ice by the players and whether or not rules are being followed. The referees can still be on the ice, but their job will be limited maintaining order and not making decisions.
Unbiased is a misconception with this type of computer an a.i system would need to be involved. Programmer bias is always present in a.i
@@yepoknow
Programmer bias sure, but if the bias is skewed incorrectly one can tweak that bias over time and improve that bias. And even with bias, it would be biased in a consistent way, which means predictable. Eventually players would learn what the computer likes and doesn't like and would find loopholes and then those loopholes gets plugged, and it would get plugged consistently, across the league meaning it's still fair.
Also, I'm pretty sure programmer bias is a much smaller problem than you think. Cause you could easily, and with minimal effort, make sure all the training data feature generic jerseys with any and all colors so there couldn't be any team bias. And racial or individual bias shouldn't be a problem either if we just replace everyone's head with an untextured polygon mesh or something similar. Do that with a full season of broadcast footage and then have it do some supervised training on that... In theory the computer should be able to get fairly reliable over time.
I'm not saying we're there quite yet. Processing power and training procedures probably aren't where they need to be quite yet... But as soon as they are I want it implemented and the refs demoted. Would probably reduce the amount of player whining during a game too. No point in complaining to the ref when you know the actual power is in a server hall outside the rink.
Shannon, in an age when everyone is looking to sensationalize everything you bring a real even keel take that’s always nice to hear.
Totally agree, Call the book and no even up calls. The rules are there to ensure the game is fair. Even up calls do in no way make the game fair, if one team is committing more penalties
hockey has numerous "unspoken rules" that's what makes it enchanting
This I agree with... But at the same time I'm a long time hockey watcher so to me it's normal but he's right that to someone who's trying to learn a very fast game which includes line changes on top of all the other wierd quirks like fighting and intimidation it's a lot when the rules change throughout the game and throughout the season and depending on who's playing ect
Tim Peel got fired for doing his job and that's the reality of the matter
This was a great video, Thanks Shannon!
Great discussion and video. Thanks!
Teams like Boston would get screwed hard if they called every penalty.
That said if the refs started calling all penalties i am sure players would adjust.
the slue foot of the 2011 playoffs is a prime example of this . in the following season a player got suspended for doing it , after it happen the whole playoffs the season before. they need to just call the rule book
Bad referees and non-penalty calling will lead to flopping just like soccer and the nba.😡
The only way to fix this is having someone in Toronto monitoring every game reviewing everything and if someone gets a call wrong the penalty is reversed on