176. Magickal Models and Possibilities
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- A few thoughts on the key magickal models and my personal approach.
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5:12 the spirit model
6:14 the energetic model (the prevailing model)
7:01 the psychological model (cf. Satanism, sigil magic, consciousness)
8:45 the information model (also used in self-development: downloads and deleting programmes)
12:25 the meta model (used by chaos witches) - if it works, don't fix it. Find the approach that works and go with it, pick 'n' mix, eclecticism. Models also fluid, overlapping and combinable.
You're a gifted teacher.
at 45 years of age , I am still, every day, learning new things and loving it. Whenever I watch your videos, I always pick up new little nuggets of knowledge..thank you lil one
There is a tradition in Poland to gather with friends or family on the 30th of November (which is St. Andrew's Day) to participate in a ... divination ritual of sorts. It's mostly just games and loads of fun. One of the things that we do, for example, is pouring wax from a candle through a hole in a big key into a bowl of cold water and then trying to guess what it might represent. We simply call it "wax divination" (or how my mum calls it - "don't-let-your-child-drip-the-wax-all-over-the-carpet game" ;)
+Kalina Kazimierczak That is so cool. I'm fascinated by Poland. I really want to visit so much. Thank you for this epic information!
This is why magick is always a fascination for me- it is NEVER boring. There is always something new to learn & exciting when you can start making connections between all of these different avenues. And, of course- YOU yourself are never boring- love when I can steal a little chunk of time for the latest thing from TheFourQueens...
It is called Carromancy (divination with wax and water), I love your videos since they offer this refreshing perspective on all things Magick, which really helps me organize my understanding of the mystical. Also, your video on the Six Principles of Chaos Magic (which is how I got here) is one of the things that really inspired the beginning of my exploration into it, which is one of the key approaches to magic that I use to this day.
Abraxas and the Goetia Demons are regulars for me, but I have also been studying the Demiurges, the Pseudonomicon with the Old Ones, and the Enochian Governours. It is so good to hear you talk about Satanism in the way you do since the Left Hand Path is how I interact with my Inner God, while the Right Hand Spiritual Path is how I interact with the Outer God (who is actually beautifully complicated and liberal in my approach and belief).
Anyway, pardon the rant (I do it often as I guess I also like to talk about this kind of stuff since it is kind of my bread and butter), I am kind of a spiritual universalist, which is kind of like the philosophical equivalent of Chaos Magic in that I essentially believe that in their own regards the Gods of every tradition (including the monotheisms in a sense), are correct in their right, just in a way that is slightly more complex than what many would want to invest in understanding the intricacies of how they "fit" together so to speak.
Looking forward to watching more of your videos, love your energy!
Xavier Guidroz I love that idea of using the Left Hand and Right Hand concepts - wow!
Thanks so much for watching :D
No problem, I have always been a universalist, and I have already begun developing a hypothesis to test involving what happens when each of the models is directed towards a single intent (and how one model midworking can transition into the other using some kind of code to translate the two).
Your channel has been a huge inspiration, since it gives me the language and the material to expound upon in my craft in new ways.Thank you so much for providing your own stories, open minded perspectives, and general playful curiosity that I find myself relating too all the time!
+Xavier Guidroz I second Kelly-Ann Maddox. I find it intriguing that you use left hand internally and right hand externally when dealing with Gods. I'm not sure how you would go about that though. I'm having trouble visualizing the praxis since left hand is becoming your own God and right hand is submitting to a higher God. This must be what Kelly talks about in her Chaos Principles video of being able to utilize different beliefs when necessary and then discard them when they're no longer needed. I wonder though if there's a little self-deception in being able to take on and discard beliefs. Do you really change your core beliefs or is it more like acting where you "make-believe" for a little while? I'm an actor and even though you "make believe" to fulfill a role, your core beliefs are never actually changed, they're just merely twisted or thought of in a different light to fit the requirements of the role.
I do not act in my path, and I do not fully subscribe to limiting myself by fitting myself within how others define Left Hand vs. Right Hand, there are things that I do that are moreso Left Hand Path, and other things that I do which a "Right Hand Path" practitioner would understand/agree on. Either way, there are many systems that have a hierarchy of the Divine, and sometimes the most incredible things people have been able to do have been in the name of something greater. So working with a greater power allows one to also become their own greater power as well.
To me, both sides are connected in a very powerful way, it is possible to become an incredible power and yet know that there is a force beyond us that our place in this Incarnate Sphere would never allow, hense the term associated with the Divine being Omnipotent (All Powerful), the best we can get is Magnipotent (Grand Power) but the reason why we can't get to the Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient, Omnivolent (All Willing), Omniessient (All Being), and Omniregent (All Ruling) is because we are not All, we are here).
So in essence, the Left Hand Path is becoming the most powerful being one can be within the confines of our place in existence while the Right Hand Path is honoring the forces that we cannot exceed and being humble before them whilst still being empowered to walk our own path with dignity and respect.
Xavier Guidroz your responses are well taken.. i would also like to read or more about your left and right hand path. wholeness
Since my childhood, I have always had an interest in this subject. I find your presentation to have a clarity that is, unfortunately, not the norm. Keep up the good work.
I remember watching this video when it was first published. Kelly-Ann, I still enjoy listening to you speak and your enthusiasm even now, 6 years later. Your passion is palpable in this video and it is inspirational.
This brought a whole bunch of threads together for me, particularly about the Information model which I didn't realise was different to the energy model. I know models are just our human constructs to help make sense of the world, but they are helpful as you say for categorisation to aid us in organising our understanding.
Listening to you talk, I can see the overlap between all four of the models as well as the meta-model. I can also see that space around them, that as you say we can't really know (even in hundreds of thousands of years we might still not be able to know!)
You said the S word! You didn’t say it in a negative light! And you got it right! Yesssss!
:I Think I Love You by The Partridge Family plays in the background:
You are such an enchanting young woman - I completely enjoyed your video - thank you!
Wow, another great video. Thank you! I watched this one twice (so I could take notes the second time) as well as the one on the six principals of Chaos Magick. I have to say, I've received more from watching you then the entire last book I read on CM. It's so great to get the insight of an actual practitioner. I look forward to watching many more of your videos. Thanks again. Namaste.
I know it's been years since you made this video. But I've followed your channel for a very long time and the videos about chaos magic really resonate with me. Thank you so much for your perspective :)
you are amazing because you really remind me to give myself permission. Thank you so much! I have just experienced two primal screams today and your videos are part of a response to this experience. Happy and grateful Chicken. x
Excellent stream of consciousness. You expressed yourself well especially for not being awake yet, lol. I am personally Taoist but not Confucius (I was introduced to Taoism when I asked myself if I could use the "art of war" to resolve conflict in my life) but I had already become a Christian for my own reasons and later had to take on a duality to understand this decision that had nothing to do with anyone else, (everyone tried to talk me out of baptism for being to young). I chose a nihilism atheism where our consciousness only emerges because I saw it opposite of my theism. This with my interest in magick and my grandfather being a mathematician and my dad encouraging me to become a computer science, my magick is always about consciousness, information theory, chaos theory, entropy and theories of intelligent which all have well know magical axioms bolstered by these modern principles. I have looked at all the models you have mentioned but as a Taoist I find myself wanting to use physics and math because I want my model to be as close to nature as a metaphor and model as I can. I use all models as they apply as the axioms of relative truth and pragmatic truth are my favorite to start all explorations.
At last someone talks about this categorization of magick.... Thanks Kelly-Ann. I have been wanting to learn more about this topic... The Information Model of Magick was really bugging me for a long time. Thank also for making some clarifications around it...:)
Really enjoyed this Kelly-Ann! Looking beautiful as always! :)
Just wanted to thank you for being such a lovely teacher. I feel strongly drawn to Chaos Magick and have learned so much from you. I feel that I've been using these models intuitively. Thank you again, BB 🙏🖤🕯
This video really spoke to me- I got chills halfway through because I completely agree with you. As open-minded as many of us in the witchy community, plenty can be static in their beliefs and workings. I am loathe to prescribe myself to any one kind of craft or belief system. Malleable. I like that. Thanks Kelly-Ann!
It's like you spoke from MY soul in this oh my goodness ♥️ This hit soooo hard!
Again, the second of your videos that I've watched on the subject of chaos magic that I completely relate to, without having ever heard any information on the subject. This absolutely describes me. :) Thanks for posting xo
i have never been a person to go by the book which is why i always gave up on witchcraft, im excited to start my journey again and looking forward to being inspired by more of your videos
You have made me see that what I do is perfectly right and correct for me~I never plan anything it's always on the spur of the moment~kind of like snap my fingers click my heels and I'm off and running~TY for this I see how I use all the models just never could explain it in a clear way and always had a feeling I had found an amazing short cut that shouldn't be only for me if that makes sense ~
:) It makes me SO happy to read this x
Pervasive is okay as a blanket term, though the connotation is negative it is only slightly negative ::shrug:: prevalent or ubiquitous might be more appropriate.
Pervasive is like invasive.
I think of weeds filling in the gaps of a garden but not disturbing the plants that are supposed to be there.
Does it really matter, so long as you get the point across? :)
+Damian Dimock Prevalent was probably what I was looking for, haha! Cheers m'dear!
I think this is my favourite of all your videos. One I will return to again and again
Oh look. I'm back here again 😆
I wish I could give you a hug. I connect with you so well. You speak my language. Haha!
I've always thought that magic, at its very essence, is a beautiful dynamic mixture of all of this that's used to bridge the magic realm with the physical realm. Sadly, there are those who claim to practice a very dogmatic, singular style of magic & look down their noses at others who don't, but I find real joy and energy in the interchangeableness of these models. It's like drawing on all 5 elements and playing with them. To be limited to just one or two would be stifling & stagnant, which is the opposite of what magic really is, imho.
Thank you for this video. You're on the right way. Good Luck.
I find you completely adorable. I very much enjoy watching your videos. (:
On your comment about being an agnostic - I'm Catholic (and a witch), and one of the things I think is most important in my understanding of faith is that it /requires/ doubt. If there is not doubt, faith cannot exist; faith is not the same as certainty - not at all. (This is why it's not possible, in my understanding of things, to "believe in" science. Science can be understood and known, but since it follows the scientific method, it can't be "believed in" the way that God/ess is believed in.) Anyways, mostly I think that if someone (especially in any Christian tradition) says that they /know/ that God/ess exists, they're doing faith wrong, at least in the sense that faith was meant by the contemporaries of Christ.
Sorry, I know you're not Christian, obviously! I guess I just wanted to address your agnosticism comment, because the way I think about stuff like that, I wouldn't necessarily call it agnosticism. (Obviously it's completely up to you how you identify, though!)
This is a very good summary Sister. Thank you.
Another very good one. Looking forward to seeing what you've got yo say about Sigil Magick. I've been practicing that for a few years with quite a bit of success. I learned it from the book "Practical Sigil Magick", by Frater UD. Good book, btw. Sorry, I rambled. lol Keep it up, Little Sister. Love what you're doing.
Great video.
this inspires me to do my own videos.... I hae much to say and no one to really ramble to. :)
Thankyou for making these videos!
I have a difficult time with certains words-
believe
good
bad
perfect
sorry
time
I often find other ways ov saying those words which make my explainations to people even more long winded. though i have been allowing my self to use them in recent years.
communication is key.
You communicate nicely.
if it works don't fix it.....
I would love to hear what you have to say about satanism. I tried to look as best as i could but could not find the video you were thinking of doing. our approach to chaos bitchery is remarkably simmilar and i crave your thoughts on the satanist paradigm. especially because you do really well with explaining complex concepts so simply.
thankyou
-1 singular honeybunny
Pervasive isn't necessarily negative.
Love all your videos but why not all models as valid?
For me it’s like asking “what is your communication model: spelling or math?”
FourQueens. What is your position on the use of psychedelics. I don't take them any more though I must say they had a profound affect on my spirituality.
I have a plethora of opinions and ideas about all manner of entheogens - that could actually be a whole other channel! ;) But I'm not planning on going into it online, not least because there are some people of an impressionable age watching my content. Let's just say, I have only good things to report.
This was so informative Kelly. I subscribed after this video! I also enjoyed the six principles of Chaos Magick. Again, super informative. I'm curious where you found this information of Magickal Models. What's the source? I also had a question that came up after reading Xavier Guidorz's post on here. You mentioned in this video and in your six principles of Chaos Magick video, of the ability to take on and shrug off beliefs as they were deemed necessary (or unnecessary,) in relation to whatever magickal endeavor you were pursuing. You said this is possible by working through certain limiting beliefs that seem to block you from going deeper into magick and keeping an open mind to the different possibilities/modalities available to you. I've been studying acting for maybe 15 years, and we do a similar method of what someone might call "willing suspension of disbelief" or "make believing". What I've come to notice though, is that you don't actually change your core beliefs in this process, you work around them and twist them. For example if I'm playing a Nazi, but I don't believe in killing people based on their physical/religious/cultural attributes (which I don't), I wouldn't change this belief. In fact I would keep it and twist it. I would instead (and this is a very crude example and not true) justify that this culture is somehow inhibiting the world's freedom and would eventually destroy all freedom in the world, maybe I would imagine that they would wipe out Palestine and then they would extend their borders to the entire world and I would find little things that would justify this belief (things like children being killed with bombs etc) and would focus on only those little things until I emotionally felt like this was true. This is a technique in acting called "believe-ability". But I never actually changed my core beliefs which i feel are quite difficult to do. My question to you is do you really change your core beliefs in chaos magick and meta-models (and how?) or is it more like a twisting around of your initial core beliefs? I ask this because I have done a lot of introspection, psycho analysis sessions, spiritual healings, shadow work (a requirement for an actor), shamanic journeys/soul retrieval, etc, and i have found core beliefs reprogramming to be very difficult to change (although I think it is possible). Even though I may think differently than my core beliefs, I feel like they may still come out emotionally. e.g. I think see myself as confident, but then I see someone I'm really attracted to and I become super insecure. Just curious on your take.
+Paul Fears Hi there, thanks for your questions. I do believe that I go back to my own core beliefs - my own ego. But I believe that I can shrug my ego off for prolonged time periods and adopt totally different perspectives based on lives I've never lived, places I've never been, things I've never experienced.. I believe that if we didn't have an ego self, we would find it near impossible to function on this planet in its current state. But I also believe that belief itself is obviously fluid and that we are paradoxical in nature and should play with that. I believe that it's not that difficult whatsoever to imagine being someone I never want to be, understanding someone I claim to be unable to understand. Like, I have put myself inside the mind of a Nazi, for sure. This is actually getting really complex - I think I will need to basically save it for the video series I am planning!
I have had the magickal models stuff in my head for literally years - I don't recall the source at this point. Sorry!
+Kelly-Ann Maddox (By 'impossible to function' without ego I actually mean 'impossible to function as part of consensus reality'.)
Phil Hine's "Condensed Chaos" includes these four models I think. Though the meta model might be from "Prometheus Rising" by Leary. Not entirely sure.
Though of course authorship is all one anonymous entity wearing different masks (when it decides to, of course).
Light and love (and socialism!)
You are very cool.
I like the software/hardware ideas. Even if I see a danger of reduce man to machine. I agree with the 4 interpretation of magic but why assimilate the psychologist version to satanist ? It seems to me that it's more C.G.Jung way of thinking.
thanks for your info ,
do you have kids I'm just curious if you have video on balancing family life and being a witch
Great stuff! Subbed
You are really smart. I'm smart, but you are really really smart.
I don't believe in deities how can I start believing?
Nirvana
I would like to see you do a video on the difference between magick and miracles..cal it a fetish lol
You are such a beautiful soul. I hope you can leave the darkness and evil and find the eternal love of Jesus Christ. Forget all the Christian stereotypes. Thee people exist but they so not represent JC. If u think Satan is powerful, you will not believe the power afforded to you as an heir to the eternal kingdom. .
very late to the party but Pervasive isn't inherently negative.
I left this party way too long ago to even know what you are referring to, but I'm sure you have a good point. 🙂🙃😄
@@kelly-annmaddox Haha. Sorry. You just asked people to answer as to whether the word pervasive was inherently meaning that something was taking over in a negative way or whether it just meant "widespread/covering everything". It isn't inherently negative but is most often used that way. My neurodivergence means that if you ask a question I know the answer to, I really struggle not to answer.
@@tomlinwilding Ahhh I see. Yes, I am now much more comfortable with that word. At the time, I probably thought, 'it has the same prefix as the word PERVERTED', haha! 😅 Your neurodivergence is all good, babes, please do answer old questions. It takes me down memory lane to a time when I was very confidently cutting the shit out of my own fringe. 🤣😍
Your hair provides a wonderful timeline for me when watching your entire history in a random fashion. I always know which era I am in.
Can we meet your mum sometime? I bet she's awesome! :)
Hehe. Maybe one day..
:)