Thanks so much for the schematic @ 4:19. I do like the motor speed control (though it seldom sees lowered speeds), so I think I'm going to put a 16-pin IC socket for the IC, pick up 20 or so ICs, then click in anew for the inevitable failure.
The content of this video is 100% legit and works as said by the guy. I replaced my craftsmen jointer brains after watching this video and finally I am back to business.
@@tonymiller2613 I just replaced the IC (brains) from ebay and amazon has it too. Both were shipped and arrived from China. If you are based in Chicago, I could help you fixing it.
Why does this chip blow? My BRAND NEW jointer has done this and from the reviews on Lowes it happens frequently. It would seem they would have reengineered this circuit.
I know you didn't keep it on for long but you know you really should use a thicker jumper wire when powering motors of higher wattage like that. I don't know if you saw it but AVE had a recent video in which he smoked some jumper wires trying to jump start a diesel truck.
Good advice. I grabbed what I had in the garage toolbox...too lazy to go up stairs to my lab for the better stuff. What you didn't see in the video, due to the angle, was a large arc at the brushes. I should have had a current limiting device in there. I only have a home made mains DUT tester with a 2A thermal fuse for smaller stuff. It doesn't make a very convincing "working" demonstration though.
@@UpcycleElectronics Yeah, well unfortunately Sears has been making crap for years now. I can't even get my old Craftsman 3/8 ratchet replaced at the store that bought out their name. And I have been buying Craftsman tools since I was 15 and bought my first 600rpm concrete and steel drill with variable speed 1/2hp motor and 3 handles. I put it on layaway if you can believe that back before credit cards were common things. Bought it with my paper routes monies. I still have my dad's 1/2 ratchet we would work on his cars together with. I own a Table Saw and large Compressor of theirs, too. Most of my tools are Craftsman. If you ever upgrade to a better jointer you might look at Grizzy products. For the old Craftsman tools you might consider pawn shops. I normally don't shop at them but when I was killing some time I saw my exact Craftsman 1.5hp router that had a broken piece and it was relatively cheap so I bought it. I am really at a loss as to which brand to try to have some loyalty towards. If you're really into woodworking you might keep your eye open for old planes. I've got a bunch of the Stanley and Sears ones. I was very lucky to somewhat complete my collection of user planes by finding a Craftsman Jack plane for $3. Sometimes people don't know what they have and they just want it out of there. But you'll find out there is sort of a magical satisfaction when it comes to planing. There was an Ivy league collection that ran a mailling list all about OldTools and you'd be surprised the amount of programmer and white collar types who liked to come home and do something physically productive and the old planes and saws are it for them. I don't have an electric planer so I use my old planes and keep them razor sharp. I actually have several of them on my living room wall. You know what I do when I get tools whose switches fail? This strikes me like it might be a candidate for this. I put them on Christmas tree foot switches. These things are available cheaply near Xmas and it just pays more because it's universal. I had a Ryobi 3 by 21 sander that is an absolute powerful beast but its trigger switch went out like 3 times. So I hotwire the tool to run when plugged in totally omitting the bad trigger switch then I use a foot switch. It's a rather elegant solution to use a $10 switch and not have to wait for a $50 switch to come on a slow boat from China. I haven't seen anybody but me do this. Been running it this way for almost 20 years now. And if the switch fails I have another nearby ready to replace it. In many ways it is actually safer because I can have both hands on the sander. Another thought ...Your situation might be right for a 3 way switch. Put the common on live and then run one side to a beefy inductor and then the motor. Then run the other side directly to the motor. This way you would have a sort of manual soft start. Start it on the inductor for some current delay to prevent those large arcs then switch it to a straight connection. You could still use the foot switch inline with it, too. Just put the 3 way in a metal electrical box. Less likely to fail again than all that circuitry.
@@johnpossum556 I've had a lot of Sears stuff for many years too. My Mother gave my Father an entry level Craftsman contractor's saw as an anniversary present when I was very young. My father constantly broke screwdrivers under sketchy circumstances and brought them back under "warranty." It was a genius marketing strategy because he always bought something else while he was there. I bought the mechanics kits on multiple occasions for working on cars in my teens and twenties. These days I look at it a little different though. Brands are just marketing wankery IMO. If I have the opportunity to help support my neighbors with my purchasing decisions I try to. However, almost all US companies go to extreme lengths to avoid supporting my neighbors and community. They move their headquarters to states like Delaware by purchasing a PO box in a building with thousands of other dishonest businesses, or they move off shore entirely. Venture capital has no ethics or morality. The consumer, me, is nothing more than a resource to exploit. The foundation of their existence is based on a gamble they have taken, that the consumer will maintain brand loyalty when the brand is not loyal to the consumer's community. There is a lot of reinforcement built into American culture. People buy the cheapest junk from Asia and then make dumb general statements about all Asian products. In reality, all the brands these people are loyal to have some parts, or are entirely, made in Asian countries. I believe the best way to deal with these companies is to have the same level of loyalty as the venture capitalist. I like to support my neighbors and small businesses, but brands are like clothing, they only provide a style and color coordination. Vanity, that's it. That said, I have a bunch of matching grey and red stuff. I'm not much of a woodworker. I'm more of a general Maker type. I was a hotrodder in a past chapter of my life. In the mid notties I got the dumb idea to use a bicycle as a tool to hotrod myself, or attempt to. I managed to cut chassis weight by 160lbs from 350 to 190, by 2013, but I got hit by several cars in the process. Most were no big deal. Mostly people making idiotic turns into driveways or illegal uturns. I got so into bikes that I got a job managing a chain of 3 bike shops. In 2013 I decided to rebuild a motor for my camaro and put an old B&M mini blower on it. I commuted by bike most of the time already and didn't really need a car. February 26th 2014 was a Wednesday, and I was heading into work when a dude made a uturn on a hill in a blind corner hit a car and sent it into me. I never completely recovered from it. It left me with a strange injury to the postural muscles in my back due to thoracic vertebral damage to the spinous process (they are parts of the vertebrae that stick out from the spinal cord and muscles attach to). The injury is not like what most people think a back injury 'should be.' I have trouble sitting upright or standing for very long and have trouble working with my hands in certain positions. Things like lots of sanding and hand planing are not in the cards for me any more. In my late teens and early twenties I learned to paint cars, owned a mobile repair business, then a small shop with a couple of employees. There's no way I could go back to that kind of work now. Heck, I had to sell the camaro because I couldn't even manage to get the motor back together for the 4th time. If you carefully watch this or any other upload I've made, you'll probably see my shaky hands. If I talk, you'll probably hear the stress in my voice. It gets worse the longer I keep working at a task, even with the pain meds. I don't mention it for sympathy or anything like that. It is just my reason for doing things a certain way. I'm very slow with projects because I have such a limited window of time I can do stuff on my good days. For woodworking I have to be clever about how I move materials and keep the projects small, but I'm trying to learn freecad well enough to break up larger projects into manageable chunks. With electronics, I really started taking a dive into the subject after getting hurt in 2014. I've learned a little bit, enough to roll my eyes at stuff I've said and done in the past... a few times over. I can program simple stuff, build a simple switching power supply, etch boards, etc., but I still get in over my head quickly and have more projects on the "on hold" shelf than those I keep near a workbench or use. It's too easy to get distracted when I'm so slow. The jointer is part of a project to mobilize a tablesaw on casters and a madd determination to place the casters inside the tablesaw's base footprint and the mechanism inside a low flat top box that will have a dust collection drawer and blade storage above it. That has lead me to adding a couple of work tables that fold onto the wall and double as infeed/outfeed. And replacing a tablesaw wing with a router table insert. Believe it or not, this entire garage project is the result of wanting to build a cabinet for a 3D printer in my makeshift lab, get more storage in a tiny space, and a dogged determination to do things like integrating air extraction/filtration/temperature management into a design. So I'm in a hell of a rabbit hole trying to fix this Jointer. Yet, it's by far the most interesting sub-project so far. I have no clue about AC motor control, but want to learn enough to be useful (dangerous). I can barely grasp the idea, inductors with AC are energy storage devices like capacitors with DC. The main cost is a delay. I have no idea how to size one like you mentioned for a device like this jointer, or more importantly the consequences if I get it wrong. I don't know the implications of setting the speed at a fixed level or the possible ways to set the level other than a hard mains connection. A lot of the cheap AC motor control circuits I have seen in pictures look almost identical to a typical household dimmer switch, so why not just use one of these? If all this is just a pulse frequency and a triac, why not just set this with a 555 or go radical and do 10 lines in an Arduino with an external deadman circuit as a watchdog timer for the Ardy? I have no problem with cutting the cord off a phone charger for the power rail, or building something. I would like to come up with the simplest repeatable solution though. I want others to be able to fix their machine. For this I really need someone to help me diagnos the underlying issue with this board. This is why I made the dual schematic version. I can mesh the netlist, add the missing reference circuit elements into a new board, and etch it easily.
@UCl9LftG7lIx9t4jhwLwK1GA Inductors inhibit the flow of current/Amps. So it should slow down the current enough to avoid that large arc you mentioned. ( That's part of why they used that U2010B motor controller chip, for the soft start function since motors can blow fuses/breakers when they first start up due to inrush current ) For what you're doing it had better be pretty thick wire. You could even try winding your own if you're up to the challenge. You could also use one side of a transformer. Like the beefy side of a microwave transformer should work. Most of the motor control stuff has the necessity of knowing what kind of motor you have first. Universal motors are the most common. TPAI did an interesting video on AC motor control that might help you out: czcams.com/video/KLiqpuJBBD4/video.html I am not an expert in AC motors but yes, generally you can get away with putting universal or series wound motors on an AC light dimmer circuit providing it can handle the wattage of the motor. In fact this is how I have run my dremel for years. I built a halogen lamp that rolls around and plugs into itself with the light in the dimmer socket at waist height for convenience. When I want to use the dremel I just unplug it and plug in the dremel. It works very well and saved me like $60 to get a dremel with no speed control, a craftsman single speed dremel of course. I kind of hate to mention this but these days I have noticed modules are all the rage on all the electronic web sites and aside from being in a rabbit hole it might be your easiest bet but you need to match it to the type of motor you have. Something like this: www.lightinthebox.com/en/p/pwm-ac-motor-speed-control-controller-2000w-adjustable-voltage-regula_p6194605.html?currency=USD&litb_from=paid_adwords_shopping&country_code=us&adword_mt=&adword_ct=397009486494&adword_kw=&adword_pos=&adword_pl=&adword_net=u&adword_tar=&adw_src_id=2907233386_8112891305_83545863093_pla-863009657701&gclid=Cj0KCQjwl9GCBhDvARIsAFunhskICWrtsxxygO-t6dwyhBCOeepJOc-kb1su0vqf2zfjvved9EKPmVQaApWVEALw_wcB yikes, what a mess. www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-Control-Regulator-50-220V-Adjustable/dp/B00LODGP2E I did check out some of the responses you got on the Eevlog and the advice to replace the main chip seems reasonable, plus they're dirt cheap: www.aliexpress.com/item/4001110629093.html I really had trouble getting into the circuit but in this day and age but being that they've socketed that main U2010B chip it sure tells you they are expecting it to be replaced. Maybe they even have a lot of them which are bad right when produced in the factory & they need to replace that IC before it can go out the door. And 5 of them are less than $2 so there's not much to lose. Here's the datasheet: datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/Wuxi-Siyon-Microelectronics-Tech-U2010B_C143004.pdf I hope youtube doesn't think I am a spammer by putting all these links in here. Usually I am fine but I have never done this many in one message yet. I would google up repairing the U2010B chip and see if any one on youtube has already focuses on it. It looks to be such a common IC that some one has probably walked through it already. I'd also check the diode with the power off and the caps drained. Chronic pain, yeah I am a fellow sufferer there. It's part of why I spend so much time on youtube plus I do work from home on my computer. I had a botched thoracotomy (rib removal) that gave me an ape hand. I literally can't grasp things with my left hand any more. You know that awful feeling when you hit your funnybone real bad? I have that 24/7 from my elbow into my ring and pinky fingers. Plus I had scoliosis near my neck and now all that arthritis has been flaring up for decades. After almost 20 years on the opiods I am finally free of them for 6 years now but it's been it's own kind of hell with side effects. Most of the time my mind is really stubborn and stays positive. Unusual back issues. Same here. My scoliosis is around T9 and so my upper back/shoulder/neck all tie into the dysfunction. Most people have lower back issues but mine is upper and just getting out of bed and being upright starts to put more stress and pain on me. Lately I have been spending a lot of time on the heating pads. I also use some Magnesium Ascorbate for the muscle spasms. It's water soluble and gets into the system very fast, like Gatorade on steroids. I have a similar goal to get my TS up on casters. I bought some heavy duty ones from HF like a decade ago now, took them apart and greased them up with good quality grease and that is about as far as I have gotten. I do have my router in the wing of it in a clear piece of removal plexiglass. Watch "The Router Workshop" if you get a chance with the son and father team from Canada. They've got it all figured out. But I need to make a big frame because I have a shop fox fence system on it that will let me rip 49 inches wide so the base is going to be huge and heavy. BTW I haven't burned a gallon of gas in almost 20 years. I used to bike most every where and now in 2018 I bought an Ebike and I modded that out with a big Omaha steaks cooler on the back that can come off toollessly. I used the 5 star threaded bolts like you get to adjust woodworking tools. Then I have 2 582 Wald folding baskets on the sides and I use all 3 of them to bring home my groceries. I can get 30-42 items home in one trip. I also have Schwalbe studded tires for it for winter. What I'd really like to do next is use the frame mount studs for a front basket to carry eggs/bread/chips and maybe put in a bluetooth module for some stereo sound. I had a JBL charge 2 but the weather rotted out the charging port. That's also on my bench to fix. The bike will charge anything USB. I can get home from downtown quicker than most cars and definitely much faster than the bus. But I really like the freedom it gives me. Road debris has been the problem lately as I have had 2 flats in 2 weeks! (And I run flat stop strips) Can't wait til the streetcleaners come and pick it all up.
@@UpcycleElectronics BTW I changed a car battery in the winter and lost the 5/16 combo wrench. Later I sheared the snowblower key by running over that wrench separating it into 2 pieces. Come spring I found the 2 rusty pieces and brought them in to Sears and they gave me a new one! Now that was American service.
Ok so I still need help. You guys seem very knowledgeable on this topic so can you dumb it down for me. I have this jointer and I have the same problem. What is the safest solution. After purchasing it I saw all the horrible reviews and that I was not the only one this happened to.
I'm still looking into the issue. I have a test board etched and partially assembled. I think I found the error in the design and I have posted on the eevblog forum (inc today), but I'm not totally sure yet. I should know something more definitive within a week or so. It will take me a few days to finish building the prototype. If you have a multimeter, you can check if the control chip is bad. In this video I showed myself checking "VS" and probing "GND." Check these same points with everything unplugged and just test for resistance. If you get a value greater than 100 ohms the chip is probably fine. If the value is less, it is probably bad. I think this will be the case anyways but it doesn't hurt to check. The chip I desoldered is a dead short circuit, aka 0 ohms. I received a new chip today. It tested 680k ohms strait out of the antistatic tube. It was from a seller on ebay. It looks legit, but grey market sourced chips are...grey market. The 680k is unusual in general, and may indicate I have a (supply) problem. You can't get this chip from Digikey or other US distributors. I have a bunch more of these coming from several different AliExpress sellers. I think the original chip manufacturer/inventor is Russian. Once I have some more chips I'll have more data to share about what to check. ( FYI, the way power is handled inside a chip is a pretty consistent variable. I'm no expert, but on the silicon die, power traces and layers are much thicker than signal lines and buses. This means the power rails are much less susceptible to production process differences at the chip fab. So long as your test conditions are the same (on a board, in circuit/removed, out of circuit), good chips should always measure about the same resistance value between power and ground.) In a nutshell, this controller isn't very easy to replace because of how it regulates speed and load on a universal motor without a tachometer winding. Most "AC motor speed controllers" like the stuff you'll find on eBay or the harbor freight dimmer thing are basically a light dimmer switch like what goes in the wall. These are junk with an universal motor on AC. At best you'll wind up with a motor that greatly changes speed with loading. If I'm correct about the design flaw I found, it will require changing and/or adding a/some resistors, probably the main potentiometer too. Generally, chip manufacturers create datasheets that have reference design circuits. These designs are like a solid foundation to get started with when building a final application. The CMEW020 simplified the reference design. There's nothing wrong with that, but they also shifted some resistance values by an order of magnitude. One feedback reference input pin has a max input current of 500μA and, in my opinion, it looks like that pin can see up to 1.5mA (3x more than the maximum). It's a very small error hidden under several layers of info in the datasheet, but it might just be the type of failure that takes several hours of tool use before it damages the chip completely. It would also cause a very subtle, 'drama free' type of failure like what seems to be evident in the feedback on the web. There are other possible culprits like voltage spikes when the motor is shut off, or even static discharge, but I think these are far less likely. -Jake
@@nastycop Replace the chip with a socket and get a few spare chips. I was wrong about the issue on pin 4. It only has a maximum of 310μA measured. I have ordered/received 6 grey market chips now and half are defective with a range of different issues. I have around 15 more coming from several sources. They should arrive soon and I'll have a better sample size to evaluate. Interestingly, the CMEW020 is also a Delta 37-070 and a Porter Cable PC180JT with different colors and stickers. All say made in Taiwan. Researching this further, they are all made by Shinmax Industry Co., LTD. The Shinmax house retail brand is Cutech. I have a short blerb video recorded and mostly edited already, but I managed to mess up my back installing a tablesaw router lift and am taking it easy. I'm waiting on chips to arrive so that I can show a more complete spreadsheet of measured resistance values between the chip's power and all other pins.
@@UpcycleElectronics Thanks for putting this together. I suspect I have a bad chip as well. Where were you able to source a good chip? All I see online are sources from China. Also, is there some trick to removing the bolts from the motor? Mine are stripping allen wrenches after using penetrating lubricant.
Also I noticed that there is an additional green wire coming from the back of the motor that is not terminating anywhere, with the other green wire routed through the power cable. It looks like there was a spot for it to connect on the outside of the heatsink, not sure if this might cause issue or not. I will see if I can jump it with any results.
Thanks so much for the schematic @ 4:19. I do like the motor speed control (though it seldom sees lowered speeds), so I think I'm going to put a 16-pin IC socket for the IC, pick up 20 or so ICs, then click in anew for the inevitable failure.
The content of this video is 100% legit and works as said by the guy. I replaced my craftsmen jointer brains after watching this video and finally I am back to business.
Where did you find a replacement speed controller!
@@tonymiller2613 I just replaced the IC (brains) from ebay and amazon has it too. Both were shipped and arrived from China. If you are based in Chicago, I could help you fixing it.
Helpful video 👍
Is it possible to. Remove the speed control all together and hook the motor direct to a single speed and what speed would that be?
Why does this chip blow? My BRAND NEW jointer has done this and from the reviews on Lowes it happens frequently. It would seem they would have reengineered this circuit.
I am considering buying the craftsman jointer. But I’m hesitant on account of the whole not starting up again
I know you didn't keep it on for long but you know you really should use a thicker jumper wire when powering motors of higher wattage like that. I don't know if you saw it but AVE had a recent video in which he smoked some jumper wires trying to jump start a diesel truck.
Good advice. I grabbed what I had in the garage toolbox...too lazy to go up stairs to my lab for the better stuff.
What you didn't see in the video, due to the angle, was a large arc at the brushes. I should have had a current limiting device in there. I only have a home made mains DUT tester with a 2A thermal fuse for smaller stuff. It doesn't make a very convincing "working" demonstration though.
@@UpcycleElectronics Yeah, well unfortunately Sears has been making crap for years now. I can't even get my old Craftsman 3/8 ratchet replaced at the store that bought out their name. And I have been buying Craftsman tools since I was 15 and bought my first 600rpm concrete and steel drill with variable speed 1/2hp motor and 3 handles. I put it on layaway if you can believe that back before credit cards were common things. Bought it with my paper routes monies. I still have my dad's 1/2 ratchet we would work on his cars together with. I own a Table Saw and large Compressor of theirs, too. Most of my tools are Craftsman.
If you ever upgrade to a better jointer you might look at Grizzy products. For the old Craftsman tools you might consider pawn shops. I normally don't shop at them but when I was killing some time I saw my exact Craftsman 1.5hp router that had a broken piece and it was relatively cheap so I bought it.
I am really at a loss as to which brand to try to have some loyalty towards. If you're really into woodworking you might keep your eye open for old planes. I've got a bunch of the Stanley and Sears ones. I was very lucky to somewhat complete my collection of user planes by finding a Craftsman Jack plane for $3. Sometimes people don't know what they have and they just want it out of there. But you'll find out there is sort of a magical satisfaction when it comes to planing. There was an Ivy league collection that ran a mailling list all about OldTools and you'd be surprised the amount of programmer and white collar types who liked to come home and do something physically productive and the old planes and saws are it for them. I don't have an electric planer so I use my old planes and keep them razor sharp. I actually have several of them on my living room wall.
You know what I do when I get tools whose switches fail? This strikes me like it might be a candidate for this. I put them on Christmas tree foot switches. These things are available cheaply near Xmas and it just pays more because it's universal. I had a Ryobi 3 by 21 sander that is an absolute powerful beast but its trigger switch went out like 3 times. So I hotwire the tool to run when plugged in totally omitting the bad trigger switch then I use a foot switch. It's a rather elegant solution to use a $10 switch and not have to wait for a $50 switch to come on a slow boat from China. I haven't seen anybody but me do this. Been running it this way for almost 20 years now. And if the switch fails I have another nearby ready to replace it. In many ways it is actually safer because I can have both hands on the sander.
Another thought ...Your situation might be right for a 3 way switch. Put the common on live and then run one side to a beefy inductor and then the motor. Then run the other side directly to the motor. This way you would have a sort of manual soft start. Start it on the inductor for some current delay to prevent those large arcs then switch it to a straight connection. You could still use the foot switch inline with it, too. Just put the 3 way in a metal electrical box. Less likely to fail again than all that circuitry.
@@johnpossum556
I've had a lot of Sears stuff for many years too. My Mother gave my Father an entry level Craftsman contractor's saw as an anniversary present when I was very young.
My father constantly broke screwdrivers under sketchy circumstances and brought them back under "warranty." It was a genius marketing strategy because he always bought something else while he was there.
I bought the mechanics kits on multiple occasions for working on cars in my teens and twenties.
These days I look at it a little different though. Brands are just marketing wankery IMO. If I have the opportunity to help support my neighbors with my purchasing decisions I try to. However, almost all US companies go to extreme lengths to avoid supporting my neighbors and community. They move their headquarters to states like Delaware by purchasing a PO box in a building with thousands of other dishonest businesses, or they move off shore entirely. Venture capital has no ethics or morality. The consumer, me, is nothing more than a resource to exploit. The foundation of their existence is based on a gamble they have taken, that the consumer will maintain brand loyalty when the brand is not loyal to the consumer's community. There is a lot of reinforcement built into American culture. People buy the cheapest junk from Asia and then make dumb general statements about all Asian products. In reality, all the brands these people are loyal to have some parts, or are entirely, made in Asian countries.
I believe the best way to deal with these companies is to have the same level of loyalty as the venture capitalist. I like to support my neighbors and small businesses, but brands are like clothing, they only provide a style and color coordination. Vanity, that's it.
That said, I have a bunch of matching grey and red stuff.
I'm not much of a woodworker. I'm more of a general Maker type. I was a hotrodder in a past chapter of my life. In the mid notties I got the dumb idea to use a bicycle as a tool to hotrod myself, or attempt to. I managed to cut chassis weight by 160lbs from 350 to 190, by 2013, but I got hit by several cars in the process. Most were no big deal. Mostly people making idiotic turns into driveways or illegal uturns. I got so into bikes that I got a job managing a chain of 3 bike shops.
In 2013 I decided to rebuild a motor for my camaro and put an old B&M mini blower on it. I commuted by bike most of the time already and didn't really need a car. February 26th 2014 was a Wednesday, and I was heading into work when a dude made a uturn on a hill in a blind corner hit a car and sent it into me. I never completely recovered from it. It left me with a strange injury to the postural muscles in my back due to thoracic vertebral damage to the spinous process (they are parts of the vertebrae that stick out from the spinal cord and muscles attach to). The injury is not like what most people think a back injury 'should be.' I have trouble sitting upright or standing for very long and have trouble working with my hands in certain positions. Things like lots of sanding and hand planing are not in the cards for me any more.
In my late teens and early twenties I learned to paint cars, owned a mobile repair business, then a small shop with a couple of employees. There's no way I could go back to that kind of work now. Heck, I had to sell the camaro because I couldn't even manage to get the motor back together for the 4th time.
If you carefully watch this or any other upload I've made, you'll probably see my shaky hands. If I talk, you'll probably hear the stress in my voice. It gets worse the longer I keep working at a task, even with the pain meds.
I don't mention it for sympathy or anything like that. It is just my reason for doing things a certain way. I'm very slow with projects because I have such a limited window of time I can do stuff on my good days. For woodworking I have to be clever about how I move materials and keep the projects small, but I'm trying to learn freecad well enough to break up larger projects into manageable chunks.
With electronics, I really started taking a dive into the subject after getting hurt in 2014. I've learned a little bit, enough to roll my eyes at stuff I've said and done in the past... a few times over. I can program simple stuff, build a simple switching power supply, etch boards, etc., but I still get in over my head quickly and have more projects on the "on hold" shelf than those I keep near a workbench or use. It's too easy to get distracted when I'm so slow.
The jointer is part of a project to mobilize a tablesaw on casters and a madd determination to place the casters inside the tablesaw's base footprint and the mechanism inside a low flat top box that will have a dust collection drawer and blade storage above it. That has lead me to adding a couple of work tables that fold onto the wall and double as infeed/outfeed. And replacing a tablesaw wing with a router table insert.
Believe it or not, this entire garage project is the result of wanting to build a cabinet for a 3D printer in my makeshift lab, get more storage in a tiny space, and a dogged determination to do things like integrating air extraction/filtration/temperature management into a design.
So I'm in a hell of a rabbit hole trying to fix this Jointer. Yet, it's by far the most interesting sub-project so far.
I have no clue about AC motor control, but want to learn enough to be useful (dangerous). I can barely grasp the idea, inductors with AC are energy storage devices like capacitors with DC. The main cost is a delay.
I have no idea how to size one like you mentioned for a device like this jointer, or more importantly the consequences if I get it wrong. I don't know the implications of setting the speed at a fixed level or the possible ways to set the level other than a hard mains connection.
A lot of the cheap AC motor control circuits I have seen in pictures look almost identical to a typical household dimmer switch, so why not just use one of these? If all this is just a pulse frequency and a triac, why not just set this with a 555 or go radical and do 10 lines in an Arduino with an external deadman circuit as a watchdog timer for the Ardy? I have no problem with cutting the cord off a phone charger for the power rail, or building something.
I would like to come up with the simplest repeatable solution though. I want others to be able to fix their machine. For this I really need someone to help me diagnos the underlying issue with this board.
This is why I made the dual schematic version. I can mesh the netlist, add the missing reference circuit elements into a new board, and etch it easily.
@UCl9LftG7lIx9t4jhwLwK1GA Inductors inhibit the flow of current/Amps. So it should slow down the current enough to avoid that large arc you mentioned. ( That's part of why they used that U2010B motor controller chip, for the soft start function since motors can blow fuses/breakers when they first start up due to inrush current ) For what you're doing it had better be pretty thick wire. You could even try winding your own if you're up to the challenge. You could also use one side of a transformer. Like the beefy side of a microwave transformer should work.
Most of the motor control stuff has the necessity of knowing what kind of motor you have first. Universal motors are the most common. TPAI did an interesting video on AC motor control that might help you out:
czcams.com/video/KLiqpuJBBD4/video.html
I am not an expert in AC motors but yes, generally you can get away with putting universal or series wound motors on an AC light dimmer circuit providing it can handle the wattage of the motor. In fact this is how I have run my dremel for years. I built a halogen lamp that rolls around and plugs into itself with the light in the dimmer socket at waist height for convenience. When I want to use the dremel I just unplug it and plug in the dremel. It works very well and saved me like $60 to get a dremel with no speed control, a craftsman single speed dremel of course.
I kind of hate to mention this but these days I have noticed modules are all the rage on all the electronic web sites and aside from being in a rabbit hole it might be your easiest bet but you need to match it to the type of motor you have. Something like this:
www.lightinthebox.com/en/p/pwm-ac-motor-speed-control-controller-2000w-adjustable-voltage-regula_p6194605.html?currency=USD&litb_from=paid_adwords_shopping&country_code=us&adword_mt=&adword_ct=397009486494&adword_kw=&adword_pos=&adword_pl=&adword_net=u&adword_tar=&adw_src_id=2907233386_8112891305_83545863093_pla-863009657701&gclid=Cj0KCQjwl9GCBhDvARIsAFunhskICWrtsxxygO-t6dwyhBCOeepJOc-kb1su0vqf2zfjvved9EKPmVQaApWVEALw_wcB
yikes, what a mess.
www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-Control-Regulator-50-220V-Adjustable/dp/B00LODGP2E
I did check out some of the responses you got on the Eevlog and the advice to replace the main chip seems reasonable, plus they're dirt cheap:
www.aliexpress.com/item/4001110629093.html
I really had trouble getting into the circuit but in this day and age but being that they've socketed that main U2010B chip it sure tells you they are expecting it to be replaced. Maybe they even have a lot of them which are bad right when produced in the factory & they need to replace that IC before it can go out the door. And 5 of them are less than $2 so there's not much to lose.
Here's the datasheet:
datasheet.lcsc.com/szlcsc/Wuxi-Siyon-Microelectronics-Tech-U2010B_C143004.pdf
I hope youtube doesn't think I am a spammer by putting all these links in here. Usually I am fine but I have never done this many in one message yet.
I would google up repairing the U2010B chip and see if any one on youtube has already focuses on it. It looks to be such a common IC that some one has probably walked through it already. I'd also check the diode with the power off and the caps drained.
Chronic pain, yeah I am a fellow sufferer there. It's part of why I spend so much time on youtube plus I do work from home on my computer. I had a botched thoracotomy (rib removal) that gave me an ape hand. I literally can't grasp things with my left hand any more. You know that awful feeling when you hit your funnybone real bad? I have that 24/7 from my elbow into my ring and pinky fingers. Plus I had scoliosis near my neck and now all that arthritis has been flaring up for decades. After almost 20 years on the opiods I am finally free of them for 6 years now but it's been it's own kind of hell with side effects. Most of the time my mind is really stubborn and stays positive.
Unusual back issues. Same here. My scoliosis is around T9 and so my upper back/shoulder/neck all tie into the dysfunction. Most people have lower back issues but mine is upper and just getting out of bed and being upright starts to put more stress and pain on me. Lately I have been spending a lot of time on the heating pads. I also use some Magnesium Ascorbate for the muscle spasms. It's water soluble and gets into the system very fast, like Gatorade on steroids.
I have a similar goal to get my TS up on casters. I bought some heavy duty ones from HF like a decade ago now, took them apart and greased them up with good quality grease and that is about as far as I have gotten. I do have my router in the wing of it in a clear piece of removal plexiglass. Watch "The Router Workshop" if you get a chance with the son and father team from Canada. They've got it all figured out. But I need to make a big frame because I have a shop fox fence system on it that will let me rip 49 inches wide so the base is going to be huge and heavy.
BTW I haven't burned a gallon of gas in almost 20 years. I used to bike most every where and now in 2018 I bought an Ebike and I modded that out with a big Omaha steaks cooler on the back that can come off toollessly. I used the 5 star threaded bolts like you get to adjust woodworking tools. Then I have 2 582 Wald folding baskets on the sides and I use all 3 of them to bring home my groceries. I can get 30-42 items home in one trip. I also have Schwalbe studded tires for it for winter. What I'd really like to do next is use the frame mount studs for a front basket to carry eggs/bread/chips and maybe put in a bluetooth module for some stereo sound. I had a JBL charge 2 but the weather rotted out the charging port. That's also on my bench to fix. The bike will charge anything USB. I can get home from downtown quicker than most cars and definitely much faster than the bus. But I really like the freedom it gives me. Road debris has been the problem lately as I have had 2 flats in 2 weeks! (And I run flat stop strips) Can't wait til the streetcleaners come and pick it all up.
@@UpcycleElectronics BTW I changed a car battery in the winter and lost the 5/16 combo wrench. Later I sheared the snowblower key by running over that wrench separating it into 2 pieces. Come spring I found the 2 rusty pieces and brought them in to Sears and they gave me a new one! Now that was American service.
Ok so I still need help. You guys seem very knowledgeable on this topic so can you dumb it down for me. I have this jointer and I have the same problem. What is the safest solution. After purchasing it I saw all the horrible reviews and that I was not the only one this happened to.
I'm still looking into the issue. I have a test board etched and partially assembled. I think I found the error in the design and I have posted on the eevblog forum (inc today), but I'm not totally sure yet. I should know something more definitive within a week or so. It will take me a few days to finish building the prototype.
If you have a multimeter, you can check if the control chip is bad. In this video I showed myself checking "VS" and probing "GND." Check these same points with everything unplugged and just test for resistance. If you get a value greater than 100 ohms the chip is probably fine. If the value is less, it is probably bad. I think this will be the case anyways but it doesn't hurt to check.
The chip I desoldered is a dead short circuit, aka 0 ohms. I received a new chip today. It tested 680k ohms strait out of the antistatic tube. It was from a seller on ebay. It looks legit, but grey market sourced chips are...grey market. The 680k is unusual in general, and may indicate I have a (supply) problem. You can't get this chip from Digikey or other US distributors. I have a bunch more of these coming from several different AliExpress sellers. I think the original chip manufacturer/inventor is Russian. Once I have some more chips I'll have more data to share about what to check.
( FYI, the way power is handled inside a chip is a pretty consistent variable. I'm no expert, but on the silicon die, power traces and layers are much thicker than signal lines and buses. This means the power rails are much less susceptible to production process differences at the chip fab. So long as your test conditions are the same (on a board, in circuit/removed, out of circuit), good chips should always measure about the same resistance value between power and ground.)
In a nutshell, this controller isn't very easy to replace because of how it regulates speed and load on a universal motor without a tachometer winding. Most "AC motor speed controllers" like the stuff you'll find on eBay or the harbor freight dimmer thing are basically a light dimmer switch like what goes in the wall. These are junk with an universal motor on AC. At best you'll wind up with a motor that greatly changes speed with loading.
If I'm correct about the design flaw I found, it will require changing and/or adding a/some resistors, probably the main potentiometer too.
Generally, chip manufacturers create datasheets that have reference design circuits. These designs are like a solid foundation to get started with when building a final application. The CMEW020 simplified the reference design. There's nothing wrong with that, but they also shifted some resistance values by an order of magnitude. One feedback reference input pin has a max input current of 500μA and, in my opinion, it looks like that pin can see up to 1.5mA (3x more than the maximum). It's a very small error hidden under several layers of info in the datasheet, but it might just be the type of failure that takes several hours of tool use before it damages the chip completely. It would also cause a very subtle, 'drama free' type of failure like what seems to be evident in the feedback on the web.
There are other possible culprits like voltage spikes when the motor is shut off, or even static discharge, but I think these are far less likely.
-Jake
Any updates on the solution to this problem
@@nastycop
Replace the chip with a socket and get a few spare chips. I was wrong about the issue on pin 4. It only has a maximum of 310μA measured.
I have ordered/received 6 grey market chips now and half are defective with a range of different issues. I have around 15 more coming from several sources. They should arrive soon and I'll have a better sample size to evaluate.
Interestingly, the CMEW020 is also a Delta 37-070 and a Porter Cable PC180JT with different colors and stickers. All say made in Taiwan. Researching this further, they are all made by Shinmax Industry Co., LTD. The Shinmax house retail brand is Cutech.
I have a short blerb video recorded and mostly edited already, but I managed to mess up my back installing a tablesaw router lift and am taking it easy. I'm waiting on chips to arrive so that I can show a more complete spreadsheet of measured resistance values between the chip's power and all other pins.
@@UpcycleElectronics Thanks for putting this together. I suspect I have a bad chip as well. Where were you able to source a good chip? All I see online are sources from China. Also, is there some trick to removing the bolts from the motor? Mine are stripping allen wrenches after using penetrating lubricant.
Also I noticed that there is an additional green wire coming from the back of the motor that is not terminating anywhere, with the other green wire routed through the power cable. It looks like there was a spot for it to connect on the outside of the heatsink, not sure if this might cause issue or not. I will see if I can jump it with any results.