GEN-3 HEMI CAM TESTS-2017 VS 2006
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- čas přidán 4. 11. 2020
- WHICH ONE HAS BIGGER GAINS? WHO MAKES MORE? HOW MUCH? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO ON HOW WELL THE EARLY AND LATE 5.7L HEMIS RESPOND TO CAM UPGRADES. HOW DO THEY COMPARE STOCK? HOW DO THEY RESPOND TO CAMS? HOW WELL DOES THE LATE MODEL 5.7L HEMI DUAL-RUNNER INTAKE WORK?
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
More gen 3 hemi stuff. Please
“Having more head is always a good idea”
New T shirt?
Thought someone would catch that
Glad I’m not the only one that snorted when I heard that lol
When an expert tells you "more head is always a good idea" you take his advice.
I would wear that shirt
Great video Richard, glad to see these Hemi dyno videos and to see someone actually use the variable intake and variable cam timing. People seem to just lock those out and forget about it.
Your videos have helped me with my customers at my job for being a customer service advisor. I'm more able to inform them about the motor in their vehicle. I've always been a motor guy. Thanks for your videos and keep it up 👍👍 💯
I watched this with 6 year old son and his only question was " How come he doesn't have to breath??"
Cos he is too busy working
No way 😭😭
Tell your son when we landed on this planet I took one big breathe and have not let it all out yet!
No time for breathing...more testing😉
@@richardholdener1727 Lol 😆. Reminds me of the first predator movie. I don’t have time bleed 🩸. Got time to duck. Thooomp. Booom !!
Thank you Richard. I have to do a cam swap on my ram and this video is great information. Perfect timing.
Love it Richard! I’m currently building an early engine with late heads, pistons and rods. Looking forward to the bump in CR and flow while maintaining the more simple block and components!
Damn thats a significant difference Lol
505 hp out of a cam only Hemi ! Jeeeeez !
The old cammed Hemi didnt do too bad either, 437 hp is no slouch.
Thanks
Id really like to see the OEM 392 camshaft compared to other aftermarket camshafts when installed in a late model 5.7 HEMI. There is a lot of debate whether it is worth putting the 392 camshaft in a 5.7 and you could finally put this to bed by comparing dyno charts!
The Comp cam that Richard replaced the stock cam with on the first test is just a tiny bit bigger than the 392 cam.. so the 392 cam would obviously do the same curve wise for the motor - just not make as much peak torque/hp.
the factory 392 cam has a 220/230 duration split-just checked-stock 392 hemi cam is smaller in both lift and duration and lobe intensity
@@richardholdener1727 think you've also got different cams in the truck and cars (and auto vs stick).
@@richardholdener1727 Exactly and considering the Comp Cam you installed gave nearly identical down low numbers as the stock cam I would think if you are doing a cam swap and not trying to do something budget orientated that it would be better to just go with the Comp Cam.
ive tuned a ton of them with 392 cams, its worth it, the top end gains are huge. I'm actually tuning a 16 RT with a procharger and 6.4 cam right now. On 8 psi and long tubes its expected to make 575 at the wheels, it made 500 with blower only.
MMMOOORE HEMI CONTEEENT MAAN , i love your videos thank you for them
Great mopar content Richard, the gen 3 motors have a lot of performance potential, keep it coming! 💪🔧🏎
Watched all your Gen 3 hemi videos and have your book about building them! Having a collection of Mopar engines sitting waiting for projects I’ve grown to love piecing together my Hemi for my 35 dodge pickup! Keep up the Mopar love!🤘🏽
Need any parts? I got some used 5.7 stuff laying around
You have to love that variable runner length intake, that worked sweet.
Need to test the Holley mid-rise and a tall manifolds 👍🏼... Always good info thanks Richard
I frikkin love your videos man. Good job.
Hemi stuff ! About time !!
More please
Ported Heads test on the late hemi, and 392 intake manifold upgrade💥🚀
As usual, more questions come from a good test.... Pistons that allow full VVT but don't sacrifice compression along with as much cam as is practical for a street application. Since it's really just VCT that doesn't allow a lot more cam but still. Great stuff!
I build these pretty regular here in Alabama. A Gen 3 hemi loves a good cam. I did a STG 3 in a 392, no other changes, stock exhaust, still has cats, etc only a cam and supporting springs and pushrods, picked up 54 rwhp... love my HEMIs
How much was it, would like to do something like that
Dale mullens where are you located in Alabama I’m trying to get a cam installed on my 6.1 and can’t find anyone to work on hemi
Can I hire you to work on my 5.7
So happy to see some Gen 3 Hemi love but so disappointed to not see apples to apples testing. The cam specs should have been much closer to each other. Still happy to see some Hemi testing of any kind though. Thank you and keep it up. Lots of Hemi guys out here watching your channel 👍👍
WOW! That was nice data right there..
Thank you again Richard.
Ed D
THANK DAVID, STEVE AND STEVE FROM ENGINE MASTERS!
Thank you for doing a Hemi video! If you ever feel inspired, I would love to see an early 235 HP Chrysler 4.7 with the infamous 2008+ factory cams and intake manifold swap! Rumor mill says they add power to the older engines but doesn’t seem anyone has done a dyno run after making those upgrades.
I have a 2017 durango r/t and a 07 power wagon and this just confirmed what I feel when I drive them
I thought the Durango is a rated for 360hp. If this video is right it makes a good deal more than the rating
@@corruption1724 it is 360 but that's threw the stock exhaust and factory air box with a very conservative tune
Great vid. I've got an early gen III hemi, but now I'm thinking I need to find a later Gen III...so thanks for that. With aftermarket fuel-injection for early engines become more commonplace, one wonders if we'll ever see a dual-runner composite intake for engines like the SBC/BBC's?
Good info...I have a 5th gen Ram with the Hemi and it's just as good as my 2011 Hemi was but with Etorque!
I can't find this cam from Comp?(the late/eagle one) Part #, does it retain MDS?
Richard, love your vids and insight to all of this Hocus pocus engine magic. :).
Ever thought about dyno'ing that late model 5.7, only using a 6.4L cam in it instead? That should preserve some of the low speed torque (through the ability to keep VVT happening)?
Would be nice to see a pre eagle block with eagle heads and maximum camshaft with the stock pistons and some 392 exhaust manifolds. It's what most are doing on a budget
My 08 Hemi has variable cam lift...the more I drive it the more the lobes and roller lifters wear down!
Wow, I learned so much! Thank you.
Would love to see some 6.1 cam stuff. Can't seem to find good detailed cam content on the 6.1
I love my 6.1 hemi, it's very reliable, I pushed it to 160MPH and it still wanted more😅👌
I have the specs of the 6.1 cam according to the srt engineers
Interesting test. Thanks for the video.
I had good luck with my 05 hemi put the bigger 6.1l heads that also bumps up compression running a thicker head gasket 10.8-1 have to run 91 6.1 cam and balancer and a 2015 5.7 hemi intake seems to work well
Hi Richard. I love your videos and have learned a lot from them. Based on your extensive knowledge and experience, will you please comment on the cause of lifter roller failures on Gen III hemis, and what can be done to cure/prevent the problem.
I have not had that happen
Awesome i’ve been looking for a good cam for my GEN three hemi‘s I get a lot of them
The Late model hemi did better than I thought it would
please do more on a 6.4 hemi
Same I want to do more to my scatty automatty
can we see a intake test on the gen 3 hemi holley has some intakes and a brand new high ram vs ritter/dual plan
Would you be up to doing some injector end angle testing? Be great to see what gains could be made by moving them around with different duty cycles to also show how much it helps if you are only using 50 duty cycle so you have more room to move things around.
I notice you got a lapel mic finally, your listeners approve.
I've had the mic for a year now
So a comp vvt cam I could make those gainz? Adding a pair of longtube headers like kooks? What can of power am I adding to my charger ....?
So iv ran Rams at the track for years and I can say this. I had a 2004 5.7 truck. 2wd short bed standard can. Ran like a 15.2 my crew cab 2017 ran 14.6 both had cold air intakes and a flowmaster muffler. I like the 17 ram a lot better for performance.
This goes to show that the engineers at dodge know what the hell they are doing, even in the early gen 3 hemis the aftermarket head engineers have a very hard time designing a better port than what comes from the factory and then the guys at dodge went and just made it even better
the late model "eagle" heads are fantastic, like you said the aftermarket head companies had a difficult time trying to make a better head. And honestly for the money aftermarket heads cost your better off lightly porting the factory units.
American manufactures have been getting a bum wrap for many years. Back in the late 80's, 90's I used to read online engine engineering inspectors rant "American engines are obsolete because they are still using timing chains and gears". I used to comment and say "and when they get all the issues worked out, there will be no more timing belts. All the research and development will be stolen and copied because you sure don't want a rubber belt operating those moving parts for any longer then 6 to 10 years". But I have to say, most people that own a foreign car follow the maintenance schedule like clock work.
@@Ed70Nova427 I've noticed that people that own foreign cars will buy extended warranties and always have their matinence done on time. Not to say people who buy domestics don't but some of the most clapped out vehicles that I've seen still putting around are american vehicles. Espcially the old trucks with the oldschool pushrod V8s, simple designs last forever it seems if you maintain them.
@@jaymoe5.7 You're absolutely right. Go to any parking lot and look for old cars and you will see some European but mostly American and maybe not in the best condition but that's what you'll find. It is difficult to find an 85 Camry or Honda almost zero Mitsubishi's and you'll find Datsun Z's. Again simple design.
What gave American products the black eye is the paint and plastics. Of course this was blamed on upper management and number cruncher's and some might be due to that. But 90% of the failure in chemical based products was because all American manufacturers had to use only EPA approved paints and plastics while the rest of the world can build and sell cars in this country using whatever product there engineers came up with. I remember most everyone saying "I will never buy another American product because they use cheep junk materials", but in fact it was more expensive and well documented in the engineering quality control data to be of lesser quality then the previous materials but had to be put into use due to the approval of the EPA. Vinyl is cheaper than the material they had to engineer and they were already using it so it was way more cost effective but it was band in automotive production in the early 80's. In 2008 in the bankruptcy of GM, the government had the EPA loosen the specifications and allow the use of European grade plastics and paints. Overnight all of the big three changed to the European grade and that is why if you go to an American car dealership today and look at the interiors you will think it was made by a company in Europe.
Anyway I own three Chevy's one Buick and one Pontiac at this time. I buy American as much as I can and turn down and or go without other's but its gotten to the point now that it's only a name on a box.
@@Ed70Nova427 yep thats exactly right, my 2011 dodge truck has a much nicer interior than my 2005 did, but I tell ya what, the sheet metal is waaayyy thinner than the body panels on my 79 Plymouth
Richard, please do the 6.4L intake swap, a lot of people will be interested in this!
So, like I asked, serious question, if I run a hrt stage one cam, prior to boost with the hellion sleeper. Meaning not changing exhaust heads but adding piston and ring gap. .008?. Will that be safe till I add boost?
Very well done Richard!
@Richard Holdener, if I have a 2006 charger rt and want to make that same power that your talking about, so i was wondering what would be the best cam set up to have. Thanks Dan
ported heads and cam(the new lst cams work well)
Huge fan of Gen III Hemi!!! thank you - On a live video cast or posted video, you eluded to a future Mopar 360/5.9L Magnum test - when can we expect to see that?
YES-ITS ON THE TO-DO LIST
I have one of each of these. My VVT is a '14 but I'm not sure it has the variable intake runner. I do know that the 2008 car is more fun to drive and is more responsive to throttle inputs. I tend to think it is also a bit quicker in 0 to 60 and quarter mile times.
The '08 car is about 400 pounds lighter than the '14 so that may be some of it. Both cars (AWD 300's) have the 5 speed automatic transmission and 3.07 ratio but the '14 also has taller tires.
Could you do a Hemi head test as you did for the LS motors? Like test the Thitek Heads vs Edlebrocks and Ported OEMs to see if they are worth it?
how about a 6.4 intake and cam on the vvt 5.7? It should allow for full vvt travel that way.
This is weirdly intriguing....
Thanks for the info.
I've seen Gen 3 Hemi's with a cam run like 2020 scat pack Hemi's!!!!
Are the lifters oil ported over the roller and needle bearings on the gen IV hemi, or is it the same problematic lifter designs as on the gen III hemi?
Can you please please do the l83 cam swap to see power gains? would love to see LT gains from cam swaps i seen when u boosted the l83 using nitrous
What about big bang on all 3rd gen hemis. Early 5.7, 6.1, late model 5.7, 6.4 and 6.2
More late model vvt hemi stuff please cover the truck 6.4 and the car 6.4 and the differences in years that had a BGE block.
Hi Richard, have you tested the Victor Edelbrock intake as well as the Edelbrock heads for the gen 3 hemi? I'm curious what the power difference would be from the OEM equipment.
NO SIR
Thats it, my mind is made up! My 2017 WK2 5.7 Hemi. What is the recommended Performance Cam? Texas?
Or did it come out of a 2500? The reason I’m asking is because the 1500 has the MDS Cam and the 2500 doesn’t
Late model 5.7 truck intake manifold vs late model 6.4 truck intake manifold. Please. Love all the great content. Joined for the LS stuff stay for the variety.
The 6.4 truck intake is best the 5.7 truck and 6.4 car are about equal.
Great video 👍
Just purchased a 06 charger was thinking shorty headers exhaust bbk throttle body would that cam n springs work good only a daily
So can I do the late model 17 cam swap in a 19 rt challenger to get those power gains and which intake would I need to make it work a new scaf pack and mad controller for the runners ? Will it plug n okay in the 5.7rt challenger?
no idea
Boost em'! Let's see the results!
great vid.. Good stuff.
So I have a non vvt but its the only thing I see online for the rebuild kit just vvt will it work
Ok so with the late 5.7 hemi they put a stop on the cam from advancing ? So that would mean the late and early 5.7 are the same ? Only the difference is compression and heads and intake correct ? So put the early heads intake on a late 5 .7 should make the same yes ? Because the vvt is set to one point ? Just wondering
the VVT was active in stock trim-they only put the limiters in place during the cam swap-there was still minor VVT movement
So with an aftermarket cam it makes as much power as an LY6 with an LS9 cam.
Did the late model come out of a Ram 1500?
Great video
I see the Meziere pump on the engine. How are you running accessories such as alternator, PS, and AC with that water pump?
we don't on the engien dyno
Richard, what’s the max timing can I run on a 2015+ 6.4 with FBO and cam on 93 gas using HP tuners ??
I have never tuned a 6.4l hemi
I'm curious if there's a difference in deck height on the 17 vs the 06 hemi.
What episode of engine masters was the 2017 5.7 gen3 dyno run with dual runner intake?
I'm not sure
Interestingly, the 1956 354 Hemi in the 300B makes similar power through the manifolds and 9:1
it was rated at a similar power-not sure what testing actually shows
hey what sort of rpm would you rev a 5.4 modular bottom end to?
I have 120lbs springs and my cams are 254 adv duration, 202 .050" duration, .435" lift and 115 lsa,
these are in a ford falcon xr8 with basically the svt cobra R heads
those cams shouldn't make power very high on a 5.4l
@@richardholdener1727 big sad
Looks like that cam would rock in an 8spd Ram. Have a buddy in the 11s with the newer gen Hemi and he traps about 117 mph.
Lol, maybe... If all you plan on doing with it is drag race...
But in that case, anyone with a real race setup will still blow your doors off.
@@slomo1010 Well, I have never owned or even driven one, so I'm not actually in a position to say. But I have heard a lot of good things about them (regarding power) from others who do drive them.
As for Fiat, yes, it does seem like everything they touch turns into ****...
How much do you gain with a 2500 intake manifold. Also, how much is your cam.
I think those numbers for the early Hemi 5.7 stuff are about right. I only see stock examples put down around 275-280ish on our DynoJet. I don’t see many early 5.7s break the 300whp mark until we start playing with the tune.
My 06 Ram was 285/301 on a Dynojet with long tubes, dual 2.5" exhaust with a X-pipe and stock tune.
Richard, can a late model dual-runner intake be put on an early engine? Getting more compression is pretty simple from early heads, but that dual runner is soooo interesting. Great video btw.
not sure on port and mounting hole fitment
Awesome 😎 video 👍🏻
Very interesting !!!
Does anyone know if the police interceptors have any different parts when it comes to the hemi chargers?
Yes
Question: on the topic of VVT what’s the benefit to a complete phaser lock/vvt delete kit versus the phaser limiter (limiting timing to +/-7)? I have both a limiter and a complete delete kit and I would like to know the pro’s/cons. Thanks in advance!
THE ADJUSTMENT HELPED ON THIS CAM
Only reason to lock is if you can't use the factory computer to control cam timing.
@@snek9353 ah solid copy! Thank you thank you.
Enjoying my HHP Stage 2R in a WK1 SRT8
Got an 08 engine, last week, ordered that exact cam you used, glad I did - although the early gen 3 is lethargic compared to the much better tech hemi, that cam really woke it up, even in the lower RPMs. My heads are getting milled about .010 and with the new pistons, I calculate I'll be almost 10:1, so for a budget build, I think I'm going to be pretty happy with it. Funny thing is used later model 5.7's really aren't that much more money now, but I already had the engine, so I'm using it. Great video!
Did that camshaft end up giving your engine a chopped idle because of the lower LSA?
I believe the active dual runner intake is a 6.4 intake manifold not a 5.7 intake but can be made to work with the 5.7. I have been seeing many tuners are now deactivating the VVT because it actually causes problems and less hp. My understanding it is mainly for emissions and not an advantage for performance.
This test uses the eagle truck 5.7 manifold which is functionally identical to the car 6.4 intake.
How much ignition timing were you running up top on the 2017? The thing maintained power at 6k better than I expected.
unfortunately I was not in that testing
@@richardholdener1727 Thanks for the follow up.
8:00 So is a stock 5.7 after 2017 making these kinds of numbers? Looking at a new Durango R/T and it's rated for 360 just wondering if Dodge underrated these power ratings?
different test procedure
Any chance you will do any testing/comparison between the 5.7 and 6.4 truck intake?
I WANT TO
What valve springs are they using with these cams. I can't see them still on stock springs and retainers.
26918 in the early-not sure on the late-that wasn't my test-probably the new duals from Comp
Would the 26918s need retainers and locks or did stocks work for them.
Did the 2009 charger rt come with the adjustable intake runners?
you might need to search that on line
Did not check if anyone commented this. Can you confirm if 6.4 heads fit on 5.7 without any machine work? If not what work is required?
take a look at compression change
I wonder how the older hemi would do with the newer intake manifold
This is not confirmed but i got a few people talking about this:
The older gen3 bottom end was built much tougher than the latest gens which means less to upgrade if you want to boost them.
So ideally a gen3 5.7 with Magnum manifold and Eagle heads would the the perfect starting point for stupid numbers once you boost it.
I got 19 ram 1500 5.7 what cam would u recommend?
Is a 2014 5.7L Hemi considered a late model?
Also, how much lift and duration in a camshaft before I would need to change out other parts?
yes it is-you need springs with a cam upgrade
Any idea how much boost the stock intake on the late model hemi can take? I don't want to loose the dual runner system that helps this motor make power the way it does. At the same time, I don't want to grenade the intake into a bunch of pieces lol
Over 20....less than 30....
@@fredgreenhill2894 Sweet, thanks for the heads up. Did you find out the "less then 30" the hard way? Lol
I'd like to see a Gen 1 Chrysler Hemi 331. They're so rare and unusual and heavy and expensive! I don't think I've ever seen anybody Dyno a street built one. Maybe even a commando 273!
With eagle heads, high compression, and a cam, a pre-eagle hemi can put down some good power. Mine put down 413HP/418TQ with eagle heads, ebay longtubes, and a Comp cams Thumpr cam, and a stock eagle intake manifold, stock airbox.
Good stuff, can probably go with something with a bit more lift, that cam is pretty mild, only 510 lift