I Disagree With Nico Leonard's Watch Rankings.
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- čas přidán 6. 12. 2022
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Well look at these two clout chasing son of a guns!! Today Michael and Christian are causing a little ruckus and talking back to the KING...aka Nico Leonard. We are being a couple of basic bros and saying Rolex is awesome and Hublot isn't too bad either.
Anyways, you're the best Nico!
Follow Christian: / christianzeron
Follow Michael: / michaelkristy_
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Partnership contact: michael@theoandharris.com
Watch inquiries: info@theoandharris.com - Jak na to + styl
Love you Nico!
yo yo we got some beef
Where is Christian's glasses frame from?
@@eigerw Hublot of course
@@akcoop hahaha
Gotta make that list with Nico in January!
Absolutely love the video lads😂 Great to see your view ( except Hublot ) 😂 I’m in NYC in January! Let’s make a list together ❤️
Please do this!! It will be awesome
Collab let’s goooo
Nico and Christian talking 💩 - and watches? Sign me up. Livestream!
PLEASEEEEEE
The people need to see this happen
Wasnt Nicos whole list based off what the respective watch companies have done this year or over the last few years? I remember him saying the reason Rolex is so low is because they have an awful year, and tudor so high because they made amazing moves
Correct these guys didn't even watch the video probably
Yes, exactly. Nico loves Rolex, but is disappointed with their output over the past couple of years or so.
@@vik574 spoken like a true Grand Seiko owner xD
(Don't take it wrong, just following the meme xD)
I do se your point tho.
I find most of the Grand Seiko's to be absolutely beautiful pieces worthy of the price tag, but..... i also love the value u get for your money with a Hamilton.
So personaly i neither agree or dissagree with his list.
@@vik574 I mean. Nico is very open about hating Grand seiko. So of course Hamilton is above.
Also Hamilton is an awesome company. They deserve praise
You guys don't understand where Nico's ranking criteria comes from. It's an annual list, and the ranking is primarily based on "What has the brand done for the watch industry in the past 1, 2, 3 years?" It's about how brands have innovated, disrupted, or culturally impacted the watch world. It's not just a pure comparison of quality.
And he is also taking into account price/quality.
The cool thing about Grand Seiko is that all of their love is earned in the finishing and attractiveness of their watches. Where other brands can fall back on their history, brand recognition, appeal as luxury items or status symbols, etc., Grand Seiko has made their mark with nearly all of that working against them.
and not to forget their spring drive movement developed for a decade
@@minibus1351 i agree . The only thing that worries me is service
The problem is you can shown someone a GS and a Seiko and they can't tell the difference. Example GS SBGX261 $2200 and Seiko SZSB012 $550
Zaratsu...
The word zaratsu is actually derived from the German word sallaz, which is phonetically pronounced zarats in German. The early polishing machines that Seiko acquired for their Hayashi Seiki facility in the 1950s were engraved with the name of the machine manufacturer “GEBR.SALLAZ”, or “Sallaz Bros”, giving rise to the name of the polishing technique we know today.
This polishing just isn't enough to propel GS.
JLC finishing quality is close enough to GS to where their history makes them a far superior brand in comparison.
@@shepleonard8695 I saw a video recently from a reasonably prominent CZcamsr(Edit: I don't know why I'm dancing around this. The CZcamsr is Bruce Williams) making that same point, but it was pretty clear in the video which was a Grand Seiko and which was a regular Seiko. I think what turns people off is that if you show most people any kind of Seiko, Grand or not, they don't care at all and the only brand they recognize is Rolex.
Zaratsu polishing is pretty impressive in my opinion, except that if you wear your watch at all it is completely negated.
I would say that Rolex and AP are bigger reissue brands than Cartier.
AP basically has one watch and Rolex just does slight tweaks to their watches.
Cartier at least still tests and does some innovation.
Most of Cartier watches are ugly as shit. Its a style 80 year olds wear.
Why change something that is perfect?
To me Rolex is a poor man’s idea of what a wealthy man would wear. Kinda like a white t shirt with a huge Armani Exchange print.
I do respect the craftsmanship and history but wouldn’t be caught dead wearing one bc of the cultural implication.
When you realize that they've made over 1.200 movements, JLC are in a different league to almost all of these "Case makers."
"You cant catch up history" well, A Lange and Sohne has been pretty close at that, they have progressed in 20 years what Patek took 100 years.
Weird how when people bring up Lange they always forget GO, yes Lange well surpass GO in quality and the overall brand recognition but it is always forgotten and underrated.
I think the Meh line are brands that we see, hype, hear about all the time. As well as that all of these brands are ok, but somehow are also missing something to put them at a higher level on this chart. In regards to JLC... I think there should be a "overlooked" section on this chart. JLC with A Lange, Breguet, Zenith are overlooked brands that offer high horology, value for the price and all have some serious heritage.
Great episode! would love to see a Christian vs Michael ranking debate but from a brand love perspective.
From how you explained Hublot in totality it sounds like you more likely choose Meh.
I think his ranking system makes sense. He says throughout that it’s based off how the watches make him feel, so taking the independence of price in consideration, it make sense.
For example Tudor, Rolex, Omega.
Tudor could be considered class because of the value they provide at entry level luxury. You get the Rolex inspired designs, and if anyone should be able to homage Rolex it should be Tudor. You get materials: Gold, Silver, Bronze. You get complications: GMT, Chronos. History. All of the above.
Omega being at would buy seems more preferential but probably because they just keep repeating the same couple designs and it’s boring to him or not his design language.
Rolex for the reason you pointed out. You save this money and can’t even buy the watch for any special occasions or presents unless you have connections. That’s BS. Then they drop weird stuff lately like 2 tone on an Explorer, wtf. A backwards, green GMT😂. The superiority complex.
Vintage Rolex should have its own category and be in God Tier.
Well said
If someone bring Rolex and Tissot to Nico for sale…would Nico buy Tissot over Rolex?
@@mikefabonacci5783 Well context needs to be added to the question because Nico has the money to purchase whatever he wants (as far as I’m aware). If you ask the average person that believes Tissot is on a higher tier, with an average net worth, that knows watches, if they’d purchase a Tissot over a Rolex then I’m sure they’d say yes. Nico in most of our shoes would probably say the same. Especially with the ego he has, I could see him choosing a PRX over a Rolex because of the Rolex games he says he hates.
@@londonapologetics nah he'd go greed mode and get the roles deal
I'm not embarrassed or ashamed to admit this, but Invicta is what got me deep into this watch collecting hobby.
Same here.
Invicta is awesome in its own ridiculous way.
Their 1953 is one of the best values in the market
This is probably true for most of these pretentious CZcams channels that now spend all their time bashing each other. 😂
Me too. But not only that my grandfather, my father, and me all have invicta, watches, or used to
I think the reason Tag is up to meh is Nico has expressed his love for the Carrera and Monaco lines. Gotta admit a Aquaracer was my first "high end" watch and I still wear it daily too.
Actually Nico likes and sell the new autavia line, especially the gmt.
Agree. Most of us choose luxury watches based upon how they reflect our personality and experience. I have a Monoco and TAG Gulf because I was a part of the racing scene. I have Rolex for when I feel fancy. Omega for when I feel techy/nautical. And so on...
Wear my Aquaracer few times a week and do love it.
Yeah I'm about to buy an Aquaracer and really get bugged that people don't give it enough credit. Why is Nico putting Oris into would buy and Tag into Meh, I don't get it
Tag gets a lot of hate, but they're not really near the worst. Mark my words - Tag today is what Breitling was a decade ago. Everyone laughed at them and said they lost their way, but now it's a different game and Breitling is back to being quality. I believe Tag will bring more quality akin to that in the next decade.
And if not, oh well lol.
Nico is funny, but he made that list using different variables at the same time, some contradicting each other. But garnered plenty of views, so good for him. But my main issue is where is Seiko? I see GS, but where is the regular Seiko, you have Timex, Casio and Citizen in there, but no Seiko???
I think Seiko is higher positioned than those brands
Have to disagree with the points on Cartier. It's all about innovation now days. Cartier continues to innovate and be consistent in their product. Their adjustable bracelets with the buttons are extremely underrated as well.
Yeah these guys are on crack
Nico ranked them for the watches. The pizzazz of the CURRENT watches. It was perfect.
I think Michael had a throwaway mention of Moser being in one of these tiers and it made me realize I don't think I've ever heard you guys' thoughts on Moser and would love to.
Complicated dress watches are my jam. I guess that’s why A. Lange & Söhne is my favorite brand. The fact that it doesn’t match modern society, for me, is a strike against modern society, not the brand.
Tag Heuer needs to resurrect more Jack Heuer designs faithful to the original and they would have one of the absolute best heritage lines in the game. Heuer Autaiva Pepsi bezel Gmt, Heuer Pasadena PD, Heuer Carrera first execution, Heuer Camaro, Heuer Montreal black pvd to name a few. It's baffling how this hasn't happened. I believe in wearing watches and enjoying them but not destroying them. Comparing Omega to Tudor is a silly comparison Omega destroys Tudor and Tudor seem to have alot of QC issues
@@alwayspooh1588 the Heuer dial is a absolute must
its a little weird that Nico didn't add Seiko and Swatch in his list, both are such big brands you'd think they were unavoidable
Watch his video before judging.
I think he mentioned Seiko and Grand Seiko to be the same.
I think one thing missed maybe is Nico is doing his take for the year and not the brand overall if I'm not mistaken. He thinks Rolex had an off year and has beef with the AD system ect.
They will only check the watch, not service it or maybe if it's not working well or is broken. But if you have an old submariner with tritium and it had a service and is replaced by rolex to a non tritium dial they will also authenticate the watch as "original". What I think will happen is that the persons who got a 3 years old daytona green dial and the average grey market price is like 120, some clients will sell it in the 80's to the boutique's again but ask for immediately an other gold daytona or rose gold daydate olive dail or something like that
GS = god tier and i'll take that to my grave. I know that's not a 'hot take' in the watch community but my SBGA413 spring/shunbun is the only watch that I truly am amazed by every time I wear it. Meanwhile my Cartier feels wildly overpriced when I compare it to my GS.
I respect the spring drive and the finishing of most GS pieces, but design is also a big aspect that GS lacks. All the watches are as basic as it gets and some are ugly. Cartier is as class as it gets for design and has history, for example.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
GS watches are great but GS doesn’t have an iconic timepiece. Not even one.
You're not wrong. GS is outstanding. If you don't agree, you probably haven't seen one close-up. Just ordered a Tokyo lion with a red dial. That thing is stunning.
@@frostyhesnowman6474Snowflake and Shunbun.
for watchshells 10000h is 400+ days that been said, do you recommend to change the shell on yearly basis?
If we can not agree with Nicos Watch Ranking List, I think it's even more difficult to agree with yours.
And like you said in the beginning of the video, it's just Nicos opinion, here it's also just YOUR opinion.
I’m confused on your point between JLC and Grand Seiko. I think they are about as even in value as you can get.
How this guy has Oris on the same level as JLC tells me all I need to know about his bullsh!t rating system
Am I the only one who is baffled that the Snowflake wasnt mentioned when talking about Grand Seiko not having a flagship model? The most beautiful white/off white dials in the entire game for me, unbelievable finish and groundbreaking technology in the Spring Drive... Other than that great video!
RM in “class”?… can’t be trusted!!!
Yes please!! A Theo and Harris and Nico collab!! That would be smoking! Make it happen chaps!!
I think Rolex had its moment for me, agree it’s now meh and I own three Rolex’s, used to be five. For me the watch that gets the most attention is my A Lange Sohne grand Lange 1 moon phase, even more then my aquanaut or Royal Oak. Even my cheap grand turtle grenade seems to have more interest from friends then what’s become the dime a dozen Rolex. At this point what upper middle class or wealthier watch enthusiast doesn’t own at least one if they want one?
So true, I have some heavy hitters from Rolex, WG Daytona, SS Panda etc and I pretty much never wear them, they're boring to me, they don't feel special, my AP15500 feels special or my Breguet retrograde seconds just feels awesome, I don't think anyone with money sees a Rolex and says oooooo, I'm impressed. Many people who want and own Rolex's (myself at a younger age) wanted one strictly for status but once you realize that the people that matter don't care and if anything think it's a bit tasteless, it changes your perspective. I will say this though, I appreciate the fact that they run accurate, don't need to be serviced for 10 years and always have microadjustment (besides one model) and for that I think they deserve applaud and if that's what you're going for than by all means wear a Rolex daily, that's when it makes sense, to wear it as a fantastic tool watch, but wearing it for status is silly and quite frankly embarrassing.
I stopped watching that guy years ago when he made a list before and put Lange in like F tier…
Nice to see you guys chose a very flattering photo of nico 😂❤
I respect your Channel. I went to School in Lausanne, and my cousin is a Patek’s Philipe watchmaker. I have been around watchmaker companies , I bought watches before they became popular. Question
Piaget is a better watchmaker than IWC? From what I heard you . Can you explain?
As someone who doesn't like sports watches Rolex doesn't do much for me to be honest but I guess I'm weird
Nope you're not. The reason rolex is popular is because of perceived hype. It's a poster jewelry not a watch.
Disagreeing with Nico basically means you still have some taste left.
I love rolex, and they have have knocked it out of the park so many times, but they are basically "meh" at this point for me. They have only come out with a couple new models in the last fifty years (yacht-master ii and skydweller, and the drastic change to the air king line, I dont really consider yachtmaster, djii, Deepsea etc to be "new models") and have just iterated on what they have. Dont get me wrong, I love most of their models and my 114270 explorer is my favorite watch, but I just dont have any kind of "I wonder what they will do next" feeling like I do from brands such as Tudor, GS, etc.
This was a ton of fun to watch, you guys were respectful but DEFINITELY had some fun here! 😂😂
Lately Michael and Christian are killing it with these videos
Grand Seiko produces a lot of watches and different variation of watches - and good watches I might add - that almost there is no exclusivity in their brand. I think this is the reason why they don't have that iconic 1 piece that is almost known to all enthusiasts. Still, I love owning one (but I still don't know which one to choose).
I feel like the snowflake is definitely their one iconic piece
The white burch dial from the HighBeat Variant on the Spring Drive Model would be my favorite
The snowflake
Great quality but their designs look generic to me.
Great video. For me, forget the Rerverso, the JLC Master Ultra Thin Perpetual Enamel is better than anything Grand Seiko produces.
Nah Christian I don't agree with you on Cartier, they're priced super well where they are. The finishing on their modern watches is superb, the bracelets have been getting so good and have been on the front lines for ALL Richemont brands. The in house movements have been great. Some of the modern models like the Santos Chronograph in ADLC show they still know how to shake things up. The consistency and variety of their modern lineup is second only to Rolex's. They wear EXTREMELY well and super thin.
Cartier has been making all the right moves and there's a reason they took the Number 2 spot last year from Omega.
Nico now has the DJ AP mentioned at 3:35!
Would be great to include Glashutte Original
God they make beautiful stuff
I love Ska! Now I'm going to have to somehow pay more attention to Piaget and A. Lange Sohne.
Wasn't the tier list supposed to be what the company recently accomplished not the company as a whole?
15:30 one of the most hilarious moments 😂😂😂❤
I don't think u get the point about Hublot. The hate is not because they make bad watches. They make a good quality watch, throw in a generic ETA mov't, which are solid movements BTW, but then want to charge Rolex/AP prices. This makes them equivalent to a fashion brand such as Gucci, e.g.Or a Bell & Ross, who make really cool watches with ETA mov'ts but charge 3-5 K for their watches. Hublot makes good watches, but they're 3-5k$ good, not 10-15k. You compared them to Piaget, NO WAY. Piaget creates in house mov'ts and has a history of being a watch maker for > 100 yrs, there's tradition and expertise in Piaget. Hublot creates a cool looking watch and slaps a generic mov't and then charges Haut Horologie prices, that is the reason for the hate.
Your talks are by far my favorite watch content on CZcams. Nothing better than sitting down with a glass of bourbon and watching the latest Michael and Christian video. Please keep those podcasts coming too! BTW, u guys never touched on Casio at God Tier.
Why would they? It’s not even debatable!
We need a crossover episode!
I still can't believe that i bought my Sub/date from a Rolex store in 1987 "brand new" for less than £800. And if i had the money.........( i could have bought as many as i wanted)
Grand seiko doesn't get near enough recognition, just like all other Asian made watches. The world is too affixed on European and other Western brands. They can't accept that an Asian brand create watches that are sometimes better than their favorite western brands.
The Watchshells 😂😂😂
As a watchmaker I can say that you can always polish and repair scratches, those watchshells are just ridiculous.
Yea I dunno, when he said "I don't want a case for my watch" I was thinking "that looks just like a case for your watch". Or it reminds me of those people who put their TV remote in a bag. One of the main points of luxury watches is that they look very nice upon very close inspection. Applying those things will turn it into a 10 foot watch, ie. a watch that looks good from 10 ft away.
You know, speaking about Tudor, i believe the brand is going places for sure, but there is something missing. Let's take Tudor Royal as an example. it's a remarkable watch but not iconic until they put their in-house movement, this will change the equation. What are your thoughts on the Royal? As i am thinking of getting one but the movement is drawing me ba back.
Thanks
have you given it any more thoughts on the Tudor Royal? Im planning on saving for my first watch and i want it to be one of the tudor royals with the diamond set bezel.
@Rakin Khan im waiting for tudor to change the movement to in-house and enhance the bracelet buckle.. if this happens, I'll be the 1st to buy
Cool video guys. I think to properly arrange them you need at least 3 to 4 groups more
In terms of brands reissuing, why change something that is perfect?
I'd have a Tudor before a Rolex and a Omega before the Tudor and the BB before all of them.
MOST DJ's in the world (at least real working night club DJ's/DJ's that can actually mix not just press sync buttons) can't afford the AP Royal Oak DJ. Why AP? Why? AP has nothing to do modern dance music and most fans who are more likely not into ultra high end luxury timepieces.
Figured this would be about the CPO Rolex craziness. But I’ll take this! Still want to hear your take on the craziness though.
to be honest, the odysseus in person is amazing
Its the only water resistant high horology timepiece with a day-date complication wich i would wear anywhere. It is my grail! My pick would be the white gold👌🏻 And for these reasons i consider it groundbreaking too!
Lange 1 is a great watch. The datograph movements is in par with Patek. But the lange sport…is like Rolex Cellini.
GREAT EPISODE!!! I have a Daytona 116500 and a Datejust 126334 and love them both. What do you think about Rolex entering the pre-owned market?
A cash grab
I see this as a battle of titans, nico leonard, vs christian!
I saw Nico in Belfast today. He was driving a G Wagon. The Hublot of cars ...the irony!
How is it the hublot of cars?
Regarding cartier, if you have some of the most iconic designs ever, then a “reissue” is not a bad thing. They have modernized their pieces, which apparently suffice since they are the 2nd highest selling brand in the world. You dont always have to reinvent the wheel.
The tiers make absolutely no sense. Without knowing what criteria was used to establish the order, it appears to be completely arbitrary and follow perhaps the unique perception of somebody with different levels of sympathy for watch brands
My two favorite watch CZcamsrs - on the edge of my seat.
So do I gentlemen. I love my GS and I don't care what Nico says about them.
This was an excellent conversation, and among your best content. Give us more of these.
Great video and some great insights, altough Grand Seiko have been around since 1960, so dismissing over 80 years of history is a bit of a cliche' I notice a lot of watch enthusiasts seem to parrot.
That was the first video I saw of Nico’s. Was rather irritated with his rankings and thought he knew nothing about watches. But after realizing it was basically subjective and based off his personal taste, then I was able to enjoy the video for what it was
I enjoyed your video. It would be interesting if you both created a video with your own watch rankings. I feel your rankings would be closer to the truth than most of the rankings seen on youtube.
Watches have never been about objective quality.
This video feels like a conversation between friends and did not really explain for me why Nico watch choices were wrong and his ranking changes constantly do to his view of what the companies are doing. Last video for me to watch of theirs.
I’d like to see Cartier reissue the Roadster.
Love you guys but I don't think he meant for this to be taken that seriously 😂
Why montBlanc in shite tho… the value out there even for the top of the line stuff? Gorgeous and just super solid non-Lange copy
This came on my playlist when I wasn’t watching, just listening, and I could have sworn it was a podcast with jimmy fallon and narduwar
Hey, man, the Odysseus kind of rules (six months later, I realize!). I loved this one instantly, but most people had to give it a little time to steep on the burner, seep into their souls, and ultimately take over complete control of their very brains! Okay, maybe not, but it's a real cool watch.
No wonder it costs like $500 million now. I predicted this at the very beginning.
Tudors current catalogue is much better than Omegas simply because it can be carried without the need of a forklift
Your best videos are the one that review watches. Please do more of that.
@MrTheoAndHarris I love watch discussion vids like this
I love this guy's, such a huge fan!!! From an omega fan boy 😍😎🔥
Something to give you OCD - the Hublot screws are not even aligned...compared to an AP. I would buy the Hublot just to align the damn screws...
Only way to do the list is in quality and then grade it crap is not at the bottom but grade Casio is a grade 2/3 watch, PP is a grade 9 watch
I find Rolex boring af these days. They need to do something interesting.
Love that cartier with the movement/rotor - Really sad they mad the Santos Dumont into a quartz watch now.
The Santos Dumont has mechanical models too. The quartz models are only for the smaller models marketed mostly to women.
@@sylinmino The Santos has automatic models in the current catalog - the "Dumont" moniker only has quartz right now.
@@colossusX1 once again, not true. The Dumont collection has manual wind models. The regular Santos has the Calibre 1847. The Santos Dumont manual wind has the 430 MC. Looking at it on the website as we speak.
@@sylinmino okay I stand corrected. Must have expanded since last I looked at the site.
@@colossusX1 if you don't live in the US it's possible they didn't offer it in your country prior? But according to Hodinkee's logs, the quartz models were introduced in 2019, and the manual wind version a year later (2020).
What watch shell thing was absolutely hilarious
everything you guys said is true , however I believe he's not rating brands based on quality but what have they done recently wich is a diferent thing entirelly
Shameless plug for Watchshells: “Watches should be treated with dignity.”-proceeds to set watch bezel side down and on its side on a wooden desk sliding around while applying protective layer. 🤣🤣🤣
Tissot prx best value for money imo
Those watch shells look exactly as awful as I thought idc what you say 😂😂
He grades them by there 2022 presence.
I think in a certain way the ranking by Nico is just Brilliant! This is what he is saying to people starting out in watches. Just buy a Casio, for most people thats just the mic drop - the end. For the rest who must collect watches even though they dont need to (just get Casio you dont have to go fall in the rabbit hole) starting out with the Class level is the up and coming brands you should get depending on your budget and the value wont be less than most over time.
I’m leaning towards Nico and his list, but I see some of your points and noted! Great video
Translation = I want ALL the smoke !! 😆
ngl, grand seiko just feel like they have very uninspired designs and FAR worse than this, cant name their products properly. I cannot be bothered remembering the name of the new GS released if it is just random letters and numbers smashed together. It makes them feel industrial and manufactured and without soul. Oyster perpetual, overseas, Royal Oak, Daytona, Nautilus, all of these very iconic (overseas isnt but I love VC and overseas is better than RO and Nautilus imo) watches have very iconic names that last in your head. So to me, it largely down to branding.
WatchShells look like you need the hands of a surgeon to apply them.
Uh oh, a throw down between my fave watch dudes. 😂
Seiko didn't even make the list and MVMT did 😂