His chat is getting a bit boring these days……… in my opinion. Or just the same every time to be more accurate. Where Sam is more open to change and also adjusting his opinion as he gains more information, or just less narrow minded maybe?
They are too skeptical if anything doesn't have a Porsche or Ferrari badge, it's incredible to see how they change to talk about whether there's a problem with Porsche or something like that, very soft talk 😂. Just see the maneuver Sam try to do to choose the Carrera GT over the T.50. No problem choosing that, but the way he says....
But to be fair, I would rather spend 2.5 million on a Ferrari or a Porsche than on a project car with no reputation no dealer network no insurance company would know what it’s is. It’s just a hassle. You would only buy that car if you already own everything else
Love this pod but as a car fan I really struggle to comprehend Tony’s stance that he has 0 interest in what he can’t afford. I can’t afford a GT3 as much as he can’t afford a t50, but that doesn’t stop me watching all the reviews or turning my head as one goes by - that’s the magic. The poster on my bedroom wall wasn’t representative of my pocket money when I was a boy, but it was that awe, amazement and hope that one day I may just experience it that made me love it.
I get the impression that Tony comes out with that guff and likes to piss on things that are out of his reach. It’s his default position on so many things until he experiences them and then has to admit they’re decent. I just find it hard to listen him as a car enthusiast when his breadth of interest seems to be so narrow.
I don’t understand how a fellow car enthusiast can dislike a car so much when it’s made purely for driving joy. So many car enthusiasts have been dreaming of an incredible sounding, lightweight, small supercar, in a world where everything else is going going electric, bigger, heavier and ridiculous with power figures. Gordon Murray has made what most of us have been wanting. How can you hate on it for existing? It’s incredible.
I tend to agree, a lot of modern Hypercars just look messy. All the wings, active aero and cutouts on the body look a bit puerile to me, the T.50 is so clean and can still outperform all these things regardless of how many wings and canards they have stuck to them.
I don’t understand how someone can talk so negatively about a car made for pure driving joy. So many car enthusiasts have been dreaming of an credible sounding, lightweight, small supercar in a world where everything else is going going electric, bigger heavier and ridiculous with power figures.
The problem with you point on the T50 is that Gordon Murray isn’t just anyone. And he documented every major step of the process, including the factory and track it’ll be tested on. If Newey said/did the same thing, would you react the same way? As RB detractor, I’d be extremely excited.
The T.50 goes against almost every other car being made right now, in a good way. Very light weight, NA high revving engine, and no complicated hybrids or heavy batteries. Real car enthusiast's should all be applauding Gordon and his team for being so brave and single minded.
@@CharlieBeveridge Agree, and unlike Ferrari and Zonda etc, there is a lack of bling which is a blessing. It's definitely not a 'hey everybody, look at me' car.
It's always difficult to watch someone try to justify their opinion on something when it's clear they know they're probably wrong. I don't get why you're trying so hard to find problems with the T.50. A big key, not great for passengers and maybe too many downshifts to rev it properly and then going too fast? Come on, it's a supercar! You know better. Sam does anyway. Someone please tell Tony it's okay to be wrong! Definition of close-minded.
Broke my heart when you started to discuss the Cybertruck and neither of you watched the best video of them all which was Hagerty's ICONS with Jason Cammisa!
@seanengineer7009 I have been watching Jason since I was a kid. It was an awesome video. He has a podcast and spoke more about the truck there if you really want to nerd out!
@@seanengineer7009Same! I used to listen to all BTG podcasts. But most of the time, I just prefer listening to TCS because I actually learn stuff there. BTG is more funny though because British banter is always better
Exactly. Gordon himself said he doesn't give a damn about the numbers and all he cares about is the drive. The numbers are just a byproduct of great engineering. Same thing with the F1.
Its pretty clear these guys have made judgements without doing any research. I love them but they sound so unnecessarily salty. Even when they were talking about the power delivery, comparing the engine to a gt3rs. Gordon has said how that engine is like no other n/a car, for a high revving car the max torque is from very low. But anyways if we say anything then we’re just being “the internet”. I dont expect any of them to understand because they dont want to
And ofc to them, Gordon is just claiming things. Until someone else sees or shows it, they wont believe it 😂 Like Tony with the 765LT, like Sam with the Artura. Suddenly one day the car is amazing 💀
@@harvinmahal100%. They simply refused to change their tune. Made up their mind ages ago being obtuse, and are now clutching a straws to justify their position. Entitled to their opinion but it’s about as strong as rice paper
I was never blown away by the look of the T.50 until Living Life Fast filmed a black Prototype at a filling station, it just looked so much sleeker and clean than it normally does on film or in pictures, then it was started up and i just fell in love with it instantly. Also, there is no doubt whatsoever, it will be absolutely epic.
I get the chat about the price, and what else could give you a similar visceral experience for the money. But let's be honest, anyone who can afford a T50, most likely already has an F40 or CGT, or could buy them alongside the T50. So once you get to the multiple millions, I feel like its kinda irrelevant what the price is compared to other offerings
I think a funny thing is that Tony's like "it's a pile of crap because I can't afford one" and yet declares that 918 is best car on earth when he's never even driven one, let alone be able to buy one.
A man i know from our industrial estate made the fuel tanks for the the T50 and the spec requirements and tolerances for that alone blew my mind. So carry that on through the car and i cant imagine what you end up with.
I was lucky enough to work with lots of cars, the T.50 being one of them and the sound can’t be comprehended unless heard in person outside of the vehicle. The vehicle itself feels special, modern and timeless in my opinion because it appears relatively simple from a design pov. The outer aesthetics aren’t really for me, I think the T.33 is prettier however I do feel the design will come into its own in the future as I think it could be a timeless design. I strongly believe you would both change your opinions if you were to spend some time with the vehicle. I think the largest issue is the brand itself. An iconic brand nonetheless however for some there perhaps isn’t enough on their resume to warrant the hype around this special product. Maybe I’m wrong.
@@Speednote10maybe you’re right. The fan will certainly be a quirk. I think the design will become prettier with time. I really wasn’t sure the first time I saw it years back but it’s got a lot better the more I see it and the more you start to notice new things. The attention to detail on the things that most will never see or notice is crazy. It’s certainly a very special car.
@@VinEvil No doubt about that. I think the side profile is nice and I like how small it is, but to me it's just not a pretty car.. which is a shame because there's so much about it on paper that I love. Oh well, can't have everything I guess. =)
Hi Sam, maybe just to open your mind a bit and perhaps understand the T50 a bit more id highly recommended the smoking tire’s podcast with Dr Murray. Even apart from the T50 stuff its one of the best podcasts ive ever heard as a car nerd. Anyways, its just cars. Its our passion, everyone will always have their own opinions. Big love to you, Tony and Ben. Thank you for another fantastic pod :)
The big thing these 2 are missing about the T50 is the engineering that goes into that car. These 2 are only interested in if it has car play or drink holders.
@@liamcarter001To be fair there are many other podcasts that are much more informative. I’d recommend The Carmudgeon Show if you want to hear all the geaky stuff. Tbh I mostly just listen to them for the banter and the actual reviews. Accurate car news is not their strength for sure
Can’t help but feel that the negativity towards the T50 is purely down to your collective lack of willingness to say you got it wrong. The reasons to support your position are either a stretch or irrelevant. Nobody that can afford a T50 is buying it to enjoy it at 30mph, cares about compromising on who has to get in first, or uses it as their only vehicle. Clutching at straws here lads. It’s an epic machine and the engineers at Cosworth along with Gordon Murray’s design and vision have delivered something very very special. I hope you get to drive it and have the humility to accept you got it wrong.
The T.50 is obviously incredible. Tony just likes a different type of car, all good, but if you could afford one (along with anything else), and you appreciate that particular formula (which is, all BS aside, the purest driving experience), you’d have one, and arguably nothing else could compete with it on that level.
P = U * I If you increase U you can decrease I. Smaller I can travel through thinner wires. It´s a good move to go 48V when you have an increased power requirement and also want to cut down on materials cost.
The kind of people dropping 3 mil on a car already own/experienced other hypercars or classics. My guess is that they want a different experience and value retention( with how small the production is and how fast they sold out imo it won’t be a problem with this car)
The T.50 sounds unbelievably good compared to modern supercars with their manufactured soundtracks. Yeh it looks a bit bland, but that's kind of the point.... it'll drive better than any modern supercar as well.
Excited to hear your opinions on the cybertruck 😅. Performance is impressive but the design isn't my cup of tea. But I guess you can say it is different and sticks out.
Oh man, Tony pushed it a bit much on the T50. I do understand it's not your thing, but to be so critical is a bit much! I also get the hate for the looks but that's subjective. Otherwise the target audience for it is clear, so he could at least acknowledge that as "not my thing" but it is clearly a stunning car. No other car do what it does.
@@HG504X Should have had Paul Wallace back for a Car Park Chat episode. I think he'd really appreciate the T.50 and offer something interesting to say where Tony doesn't.
T50 talk wasn't a good look. As someone who was very skeptical about the T50, I can fully admit I was absolutely wrong after watching the Top Gear video. No shame in admitting that Sam and Tony! It still looks a bit to understated for me, but at the end of the day it's about the driving. And most owners will have a F40, Carrera GT etc. already. Your arguments like the central driving position, that it's too fast for the road etc. make you look like real haters...
Agreed, the only valid argument is that you can’t reasonably enjoy the 12000 revs read line on the road. But it supposedly has bags of torque, so I’m sure it’s amazing even around 7-9k
Further to Tonys comments last week on premium fuel Yes extra mpg is minimal and not worth it, but 95 standard fuel will work fine but the car will adjust ignition timing to suit. 97 is BETTER for a performance car it has a higher octane so will have slightly more power than 95. Will you notice it daily driving no, its fine for 95. Hard driving/track probs Yes everybody and everything is wrong with Tony no doubt
There are other cars id rather buy for the price of the t50 and I'm not the biggest fan of it and the F1. But the man who made it is a master of automotive design and engineering and has a credible portofilio. Of course the masses had full confidence in making the greatest driving car ever made.
Tony is showing his ignorance here, and I am shocked there was no mention of the other key feature of the T50 which is the fan on the back allowing real downforce at lower street speeds
Highly unlikely the Cybertruck will ever be sold in Europe and most other countries. It’s over the 3,500kg maximum gross vehicle weight, so you’d need a C1 7.5t licence, it would be limited to 55mph, and be left-hand drive only.
Great episode, as per usual. Point of correction regarding the GMA T50 Top Gear review. The journalist was Ollie Marriage, not Ollie Kew. I really enjoyed Tony's car buying experience. It was hugely informative and offered a enormous amount of value. Thanks for that.
Anyone who buys a T50 is not saying “Which hypercar can I get for £2.5 million. They will be adding it to a collection so that way of looking at it is pointless.
Starting to lose me. Im afraid T50 discussion confirms you both as armchair enthusiasts no Engineering understanding whatsoever so its best to stop digging. I dont like the looks much either however the car is a towering achievement but then Im an Engineer. Harris and the like understand this stuff and thats the difference.
The t.50 doesn't need an advanced special stying design.. It's meant to be simplistic-looking , while having advanced & modern technology and aero. It's small , just like the f1, has the same simple bodylines, weighs under a tonne, has a n/a,12k revving N/A V12 with 650 hp, and sounds like a 1l superbike! Plus it could be daily driven , with 3 seats and lots of luggage space for such a small package. I admit when it launched , i found the design so bland and weird, but now understanding it's ethos and after seeing one in real life, it really looks like a modern interpretation of a mclaren f1 ... I truly love it now !
Finally someone have a different opinion about T50. I do agree with Sam with a different things. also, until the proper review I will keep the same opinion. A few details of the car look very cheap, headlights, interior, stressing wheel as well as don't look robust at all. my opinion. I didn't get wow just because of something done by gordon Murray and I have a close friend that done the aerodynamic for T50
I think the T50 is not a beautiful car - but that engine is going to be viewed, in hindsight, as the crescendo of the internal combustion engine, I’m positive of it.
I don't understand the negativity towards the T50 cos I truly do feel that this is an amazing product in terms of it being one of last true hurrahs for the NA non-hybrid ICEs n for manual transmissions. Keep in mind that the other manual high performance cars are the Koenigsegg CC850 n those before special options are well in excess of 5 million USD. Not a _fan_ of the look of the fan (😉) but it isn't as pronounced if it's specced in black or dark shades. There's a few clips of a black car where you don't notice it really unless you're specifically lookin for it. If you're lookin at a manual transmission NA V12 in particular then an option is buyin a Zonda n sendin it back to the factory to be manually converted n upgraded to a 760 spec but that again is gonna be upwards of 7-8 million USD at the least.
Yes the .T50 is a special thing and more an engineers car than a designers car. But I will bet that the running cost will be much lower than a lot of other stuff, adding to the enjoyment. Good luck finding tyres for your Veyron on your drive to the alps after a puncture, just to name one of the positives. And even if he makes a car for one in ten million people. That is still 788 people...
If I were lucky enough to be able to purchase a Gordon Murray car, I'd go for the T.33. I don't need a giant fan on the back of my V12 sportscar, or central driving position.
Tony's criticism of the T50 that the passenger has to get out first and get in last is bizarre. It's no different to a 2 door car with rear seats in which the rear passengers have to get in first and get out last, which is the case with most GT cars, lots of hot hatches and of course Tony's beloved Porsche 911
Interesting marketing fact - Car keys are deliberately heavy to give a feeling of quality, and make it an effort and event to use it. Nowadays a car key is just a tiny board and a chip, it could weigh almost nothing... yet every car key you've ever picked up is heavy. So what they've done with that T.50 key makes perfect engineering sense but it'll feel like a toy.
The idea for next week is fantastic! I've started a new job which means I will be doing around the average miles (10-12k per year). Previously had an M140 and GR Yaris however currently don't have a car. The variety out there is insane and I can't narrow down what to get as I've never needed a commuting type car before. I've looked at Fiestas (normal and ST) or a Focus but feel like I might be better with an auto? Then looked at the new M135i but feel a 320i is probably a better bet. The curve ball is Mazda's, namely the 3 and CX30 but they don't have anything spicy (but maybe that is ok) Budget is somewhere between £15-30k and I want it to feel new so not a Golf R 7.5 as the interior looks horrendous now. It would be interesting to see if Tony thinks that the prices will continue to drop into 2024 or if this is just a standard winter drop? Hopefully the discussion next week will help answer some of the questions and I've already looked at the stock Tony has in atm.
What i want to see is an episode devoted entirely to sub £10k cars, top 10, best value etc. Used car prices are crashing at the moment, would be interesting to see what these two pick!
It's too early for that I guess. It needs to be properly ripped around a track for it to be validated. I'm waiting for Chris Harris or Sport Auto to do a track review. From my understanding, the fan works kinda similar to the McMurtry Spéirling where it causes a suction effect. Also, for that to work as intended, it needs to be on a smooth n even track because slightly deep undulations, especially in a corner, will cause a loss in the suction effect n as a result send you fishtailin, possibly violently, because you'll be carryin a lot of speed goin into the corner. I can't recall whose video it was but durin a brief talk with one of the McMurtry engineers, it was said that even hitting the curb n the sudden change in the gap between the road n the underbody can cause unintended results. That being said, I truly do feel that this is an amazing product in terms of it being one of last true hurrahs for the NA non-hybrid ICEs. Not a _fan_ of the look of the fan (😉) but it isn't as pronounced if it's specced in black or dark shades. There's a few clips of a black car where you don't notice it really unless you're specifically lookin for it.
Brilliant episode as usual, I think they both should buy a sub £15k hatch and go on a road trip, north east 500 or Wales, 😮 bring it all back a peg in these difficult times.
I can totally relate to the buying experience you described. I know it's on another level but, I've been searching for a manual M2/M3 to test drive for months now. Eight official dealerships and one BMW group-owned dealership in my area don't have own cars or pool cars with a manual gearbox (no M2, no M3). Even after sending three emails to BMW, I haven't had any success. The experience here is even worse, with auto-generated replies that tell me I should go to a local dealership and that they do not print any info material anymore (which i haven’t even asked for). Currently, the car buying experience in Germany is not something I can recommend to someone else. At the moment, I have the impression that BMW doesn't want to sell cars with a manual gearbox (despite promoting it on CZcams and even through their engineers). Maybe I'm just not the right type of customer, and BMW expects customers to spend 80,000€ or more without being able to test that type of gearbox. I don't know, but right now, I'm more than disappointed.
Bang on, Exactly what you are saying about the dealerships is a nightmare. No wonder Tesla is eating everybody else’s lunch. Zero paperwork, log onto your phone and take delivery
You two need to pass your motorcycle tests and start riding sports bikes that have 12,13,14k rev limits and then you might , yes might have an understanding of where the T50 engine is coming from. Until then you might as well comment on the understeer of an atomic submarine.😅
I think you're find he designed the F1 Brabham which was a pile of crap. You will find steve Nicholls helped design mcclarens in their pomp. A good video watch jayemm interview Steve Nicholls.
These guys didn't listen to any reviews at all. Both reviews are saying the T.50 is fantastic to drive at lower speeds and that it is extremely involving even when not ringing it out due to the amount of feel and feedback from the manual steering, shifter, and tractability of the engine
What you said about T50 around 6:30 sec applies to Cybertruck or? So go figure how is it possible a super rare, hand built hyper car worth several million to be approached the same way as an electric truck which now came out quite far from what Musk announced 3-4 years ago (long delay, much more expensive, much smaller range, no exoskeleton...)
If you watched the videos of Gordon Murray talking about the car during development, the T50 is meant to be a McLaren F1 without the limitations they had at the time. So for $2.5m for a very similar experience to an F1 is a bargain. All the issues pointed out exist with the F1, but that's 10x more money. I don't think people are cross shopping a Carrera GT or an F40 and a T50, at that money people would just have both/them all. I'd say the T50 is better put together with newer technology than both. It's also much cheaper than a manual Zonda.
That Sam still is trying to be negative about the t50 is very surprising. It should be a car that appeals to him more than any other new ”hyper car” with its light no nonsense approach and manual V12.. Talking about money and value regarding these cars is not very Interesting. The people buying these probably have cgt, F40 or whatever other car they want..😄
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If the T50 had a Porsche or Ferrari badge on it, Tony would love it. 😂
His chat is getting a bit boring these days……… in my opinion. Or just the same every time to be more accurate. Where Sam is more open to change and also adjusting his opinion as he gains more information, or just less narrow minded maybe?
They are too skeptical if anything doesn't have a Porsche or Ferrari badge, it's incredible to see how they change to talk about whether there's a problem with Porsche or something like that, very soft talk 😂. Just see the maneuver Sam try to do to choose the Carrera GT over the T.50. No problem choosing that, but the way he says....
@@pedromeggiolaro I agree. You can still have brands you love and prefer, but have an open mind about other brands and technologies.
Hes old thats how old people are
But to be fair, I would rather spend 2.5 million on a Ferrari or a Porsche than on a project car with no reputation no dealer network no insurance company would know what it’s is. It’s just a hassle. You would only buy that car if you already own everything else
Love this pod but as a car fan I really struggle to comprehend Tony’s stance that he has 0 interest in what he can’t afford. I can’t afford a GT3 as much as he can’t afford a t50, but that doesn’t stop me watching all the reviews or turning my head as one goes by - that’s the magic. The poster on my bedroom wall wasn’t representative of my pocket money when I was a boy, but it was that awe, amazement and hope that one day I may just experience it that made me love it.
I get the impression that Tony comes out with that guff and likes to piss on things that are out of his reach. It’s his default position on so many things until he experiences them and then has to admit they’re decent. I just find it hard to listen him as a car enthusiast when his breadth of interest seems to be so narrow.
It's also his ego talking
I don’t understand how a fellow car enthusiast can dislike a car so much when it’s made purely for driving joy. So many car enthusiasts have been dreaming of an incredible sounding, lightweight, small supercar, in a world where everything else is going going electric, bigger, heavier and ridiculous with power figures. Gordon Murray has made what most of us have been wanting. How can you hate on it for existing? It’s incredible.
Anyone that’s buying a T50 will already have numerous cars, so arguments for alternative options for the price are irrelevant.
Not to mention there isn't anything sub 20 million dollars like it
He said it’s basically just a copy of the F1. Doesn’t that make it one of the best value cars you can get? 🤣
both of you have a weird stance on the T50. IMO It's a breath of fresh air in the hypercar space.
I think it's an updated McLaren F1 and the only fresh air comes from the fan, literally
I tend to agree, a lot of modern Hypercars just look messy. All the wings, active aero and cutouts on the body look a bit puerile to me, the T.50 is so clean and can still outperform all these things regardless of how many wings and canards they have stuck to them.
@@finlir12,100 rpm is pretty fresh
I don’t understand how someone can talk so negatively about a car made for pure driving joy. So many car enthusiasts have been dreaming of an credible sounding, lightweight, small supercar in a world where everything else is going going electric, bigger heavier and ridiculous with power figures.
Bizarre take on the T.50 from both.
Twiggy falling asleep on Tony 's lap is a whole vibe 🥹
The problem with you point on the T50 is that Gordon Murray isn’t just anyone. And he documented every major step of the process, including the factory and track it’ll be tested on.
If Newey said/did the same thing, would you react the same way? As RB detractor, I’d be extremely excited.
I don't get how you can hate on the T.50 bar its looks as it looks like it would be incredible to drive
That engine is a masterpiece. Insane engineering by Cosworth.
The T.50 goes against almost every other car being made right now, in a good way. Very light weight, NA high revving engine, and no complicated hybrids or heavy batteries. Real car enthusiast's should all be applauding Gordon and his team for being so brave and single minded.
the cost too
@@CharlieBeveridge Agree, and unlike Ferrari and Zonda etc, there is a lack of bling which is a blessing. It's definitely not a 'hey everybody, look at me' car.
It's always difficult to watch someone try to justify their opinion on something when it's clear they know they're probably wrong. I don't get why you're trying so hard to find problems with the T.50. A big key, not great for passengers and maybe too many downshifts to rev it properly and then going too fast? Come on, it's a supercar! You know better. Sam does anyway. Someone please tell Tony it's okay to be wrong! Definition of close-minded.
self-indulgent crap
Broke my heart when you started to discuss the Cybertruck and neither of you watched the best video of them all which was Hagerty's ICONS with Jason Cammisa!
I agree!! Jason nailed it! -A true car geek.
@seanengineer7009 I have been watching Jason since I was a kid. It was an awesome video. He has a podcast and spoke more about the truck there if you really want to nerd out!
@@Druezy I also went full nerd when watching the subsequent Cyber Truck podcast. I'm also a regular viewer of Jason's and Hyphen's podcast.
@@seanengineer7009 I am ashamed that it took the Cybertruck to lead me to his podcast. It was fanatic!
@@seanengineer7009Same! I used to listen to all BTG podcasts. But most of the time, I just prefer listening to TCS because I actually learn stuff there. BTG is more funny though because British banter is always better
I think a bit silly to think when the T50 was launched in 2020 that it was just a load of numbers thrown into the air.
Exactly. Gordon himself said he doesn't give a damn about the numbers and all he cares about is the drive. The numbers are just a byproduct of great engineering. Same thing with the F1.
Its pretty clear these guys have made judgements without doing any research. I love them but they sound so unnecessarily salty. Even when they were talking about the power delivery, comparing the engine to a gt3rs. Gordon has said how that engine is like no other n/a car, for a high revving car the max torque is from very low. But anyways if we say anything then we’re just being “the internet”. I dont expect any of them to understand because they dont want to
And ofc to them, Gordon is just claiming things. Until someone else sees or shows it, they wont believe it 😂 Like Tony with the 765LT, like Sam with the Artura. Suddenly one day the car is amazing 💀
@@harvinmahal100%.
They simply refused to change their tune. Made up their mind ages ago being obtuse, and are now clutching a straws to justify their position. Entitled to their opinion but it’s about as strong as rice paper
@@mjrowden factsss. But hey, we dont sell cars or review them, so what do we know ey? HAHAHA 🤪
I was never blown away by the look of the T.50 until Living Life Fast filmed a black Prototype at a filling station, it just looked so much sleeker and clean than it normally does on film or in pictures, then it was started up and i just fell in love with it instantly. Also, there is no doubt whatsoever, it will be absolutely epic.
T.50 is British….we should be proud
Made by a South African
The T.50 is the last analog car in terms of i dont see ferrari, porsche or any other big manufacturer planning to build a manual V12
T.50 is a cool car and I hope British car manufacturing is on the way up.
SSShhhhh, dont say that to loud. Dont want the government to know that.
I get the chat about the price, and what else could give you a similar visceral experience for the money. But let's be honest, anyone who can afford a T50, most likely already has an F40 or CGT, or could buy them alongside the T50. So once you get to the multiple millions, I feel like its kinda irrelevant what the price is compared to other offerings
I think a funny thing is that Tony's like "it's a pile of crap because I can't afford one" and yet declares that 918 is best car on earth when he's never even driven one, let alone be able to buy one.
A man i know from our industrial estate made the fuel tanks for the the T50 and the spec requirements and tolerances for that alone blew my mind. So carry that on through the car and i cant imagine what you end up with.
The Cybertruck looks like something The A-Team built while locked up in a barn
Whilst blindfolded and high on crack…
If you think the T50 as an improved Mclaren F1 for 10% of the Mclaren F1 price nowadays, it's a bargain!!
Gordon Murray literally said that too. He wants people to be driving it.
All the buyers are hoping so.
I saw a T.50 on the M1 back in August. It certainly has presence!
I was lucky enough to work with lots of cars, the T.50 being one of them and the sound can’t be comprehended unless heard in person outside of the vehicle. The vehicle itself feels special, modern and timeless in my opinion because it appears relatively simple from a design pov. The outer aesthetics aren’t really for me, I think the T.33 is prettier however I do feel the design will come into its own in the future as I think it could be a timeless design.
I strongly believe you would both change your opinions if you were to spend some time with the vehicle.
I think the largest issue is the brand itself. An iconic brand nonetheless however for some there perhaps isn’t enough on their resume to warrant the hype around this special product. Maybe I’m wrong.
I don't see how a car design with a huge fan on the back will ever be timeless.
@@Speednote10maybe you’re right. The fan will certainly be a quirk.
I think the design will become prettier with time. I really wasn’t sure the first time I saw it years back but it’s got a lot better the more I see it and the more you start to notice new things.
The attention to detail on the things that most will never see or notice is crazy.
It’s certainly a very special car.
@@VinEvil No doubt about that. I think the side profile is nice and I like how small it is, but to me it's just not a pretty car.. which is a shame because there's so much about it on paper that I love.
Oh well, can't have everything I guess. =)
@@Speednote10I think more people will agree with you than me.
The T.33 is a better looking car imo.
Hi Sam, maybe just to open your mind a bit and perhaps understand the T50 a bit more id highly recommended the smoking tire’s podcast with Dr Murray. Even apart from the T50 stuff its one of the best podcasts ive ever heard as a car nerd.
Anyways, its just cars. Its our passion, everyone will always have their own opinions. Big love to you, Tony and Ben. Thank you for another fantastic pod :)
Great to see Twiggy! More Twiggy in future episodes please!
I think you should make Twiggy the brands mascot! Would love Twiggy merch 😂
The big thing these 2 are missing about the T50 is the engineering that goes into that car. These 2 are only interested in if it has car play or drink holders.
It's shocking how little they actually know about cars lol
@@liamcarter001To be fair there are many other podcasts that are much more informative. I’d recommend The Carmudgeon Show if you want to hear all the geaky stuff. Tbh I mostly just listen to them for the banter and the actual reviews. Accurate car news is not their strength for sure
I imagine driving 30mph in a million pound car would definitely feel special 😂😂. T.50 sounds unreal!
Can’t help but feel that the negativity towards the T50 is purely down to your collective lack of willingness to say you got it wrong. The reasons to support your position are either a stretch or irrelevant. Nobody that can afford a T50 is buying it to enjoy it at 30mph, cares about compromising on who has to get in first, or uses it as their only vehicle. Clutching at straws here lads.
It’s an epic machine and the engineers at Cosworth along with Gordon Murray’s design and vision have delivered something very very special. I hope you get to drive it and have the humility to accept you got it wrong.
Mindblown by Sams take on T50 .. "too fast" wtf? .. "key too big?" 😂😂😂
The T.50 is obviously incredible. Tony just likes a different type of car, all good, but if you could afford one (along with anything else), and you appreciate that particular formula (which is, all BS aside, the purest driving experience), you’d have one, and arguably nothing else could compete with it on that level.
Tony doesn’t want to admit that he likes the T50😂
P = U * I
If you increase U you can decrease I. Smaller I can travel through thinner wires. It´s a good move to go 48V when you have an increased power requirement and also want to cut down on materials cost.
Do you mean voltage by ‘U’?
@@kierantilley2590 Yes I did, I didnt think about converting the formula to english :)
The kind of people dropping 3 mil on a car already own/experienced other hypercars or classics. My guess is that they want a different experience and value retention( with how small the production is and how fast they sold out imo it won’t be a problem with this car)
Nice one guys. I always enjoy the both of you chatting about cars. I also liked Twiggy chilling with Tony 😃👍
The T.50 sounds unbelievably good compared to modern supercars with their manufactured soundtracks. Yeh it looks a bit bland, but that's kind of the point.... it'll drive better than any modern supercar as well.
Tony and Twiggy doing their best Blofeld impression this week 😂
Excited to hear your opinions on the cybertruck 😅. Performance is impressive but the design isn't my cup of tea. But I guess you can say it is different and sticks out.
Oh man, Tony pushed it a bit much on the T50. I do understand it's not your thing, but to be so critical is a bit much!
I also get the hate for the looks but that's subjective. Otherwise the target audience for it is clear, so he could at least acknowledge that as "not my thing" but it is clearly a stunning car. No other car do what it does.
He's just jealous he can't afford one, so it's "shit"
Sounds to me like he has no idea about the car. He described it as a £2million lotus…
There is a reason this podcast stays at 50k in subs for years.
Tony’s a bit marmite and overly negative for me. It’s wearing a bit thin.
I agree100% I’ve had my fill from the second hand car salesman. Unsubscribing today. Sorry, Sam but your sidekick is holding you back.
Need to have more guests on, get different opinions and topics flowing through.
@@HG504X Should have had Paul Wallace back for a Car Park Chat episode. I think he'd really appreciate the T.50 and offer something interesting to say where Tony doesn't.
These days people want echo chambers as opposed to different opinions. They resort to insults instead of explaining why they think the T.50.
T50 talk wasn't a good look. As someone who was very skeptical about the T50, I can fully admit I was absolutely wrong after watching the Top Gear video. No shame in admitting that Sam and Tony!
It still looks a bit to understated for me, but at the end of the day it's about the driving. And most owners will have a F40, Carrera GT etc. already. Your arguments like the central driving position, that it's too fast for the road etc. make you look like real haters...
Agreed, the only valid argument is that you can’t reasonably enjoy the 12000 revs read line on the road. But it supposedly has bags of torque, so I’m sure it’s amazing even around 7-9k
Further to Tonys comments last week on premium fuel
Yes extra mpg is minimal and not worth it, but 95 standard fuel will work fine but the car will adjust ignition timing to suit. 97 is BETTER for a performance car it has a higher octane so will have slightly more power than 95.
Will you notice it daily driving no, its fine for 95. Hard driving/track probs Yes
everybody and everything is wrong with Tony no doubt
There are other cars id rather buy for the price of the t50 and I'm not the biggest fan of it and the F1. But the man who made it is a master of automotive design and engineering and has a credible portofilio. Of course the masses had full confidence in making the greatest driving car ever made.
Tony is showing his ignorance here, and I am shocked there was no mention of the other key feature of the T50 which is the fan on the back allowing real downforce at lower street speeds
That's not how the fan works on the T50. It's not like Chaparral 2J's, or McMurtry Spéirling's.
@@gustavoflorio5383 then how does it work Mr. Murray?
Highly unlikely the Cybertruck will ever be sold in Europe and most other countries. It’s over the 3,500kg maximum gross vehicle weight, so you’d need a C1 7.5t licence, it would be limited to 55mph, and be left-hand drive only.
And would never meet UK crash regulations due to the sharp edges on the design.
@@the_ambient_light yes, even in the US it’s classed as a light-duty truck, so is exempt from several safety standards.
@@andrewhurstcars Ahh wondered how they got around that legislation. Will it be legal in all states then?
@@the_ambient_light sharp edges and rigid body structure which could be incredibly bad news for other road users like cyclists and pedestrians
Great episode, as per usual.
Point of correction regarding the GMA T50 Top Gear review.
The journalist was Ollie Marriage, not Ollie Kew.
I really enjoyed Tony's car buying experience.
It was hugely informative and offered a enormous amount of value.
Thanks for that.
Anyone who buys a T50 is not saying “Which hypercar can I get for £2.5 million. They will be adding it to a collection so that way of looking at it is pointless.
Starting to lose me. Im afraid T50 discussion confirms you both as armchair enthusiasts no Engineering understanding whatsoever so its best to stop digging. I dont like the looks much either however the car is a towering achievement but then Im an Engineer. Harris and the like understand this stuff and thats the difference.
The t.50 doesn't need an advanced special stying design..
It's meant to be simplistic-looking , while having advanced & modern technology and aero.
It's small , just like the f1, has the same simple bodylines, weighs under a tonne, has a n/a,12k revving N/A V12 with 650 hp, and sounds like a 1l superbike!
Plus it could be daily driven , with 3 seats and lots of luggage space for such a small package.
I admit when it launched , i found the design so bland and weird, but now understanding it's ethos and after seeing one in real life, it really looks like a modern interpretation of a mclaren f1 ...
I truly love it now !
First time I've turned it off, I can't afford a t50 so I'm not interested, well what do you usually say, work a bit harder!
If you are buying a T50, you probably already own a F40, Porsche Carrera GT etc etc
Have to agree with how appealing lower end cars look these days, I imagine luxury superminis like the A1 might become a big trend in the future.
Audi is discontinuing the A1 though
Luxury car makers make no profit on small cars
Finally someone have a different opinion about T50. I do agree with Sam with a different things. also, until the proper review I will keep the same opinion. A few details of the car look very cheap, headlights, interior, stressing wheel as well as don't look robust at all. my opinion.
I didn't get wow just because of something done by gordon Murray and I have a close friend that done the aerodynamic for T50
I think the T50 is not a beautiful car - but that engine is going to be viewed, in hindsight, as the crescendo of the internal combustion engine, I’m positive of it.
I don't understand the negativity towards the T50 cos I truly do feel that this is an amazing product in terms of it being one of last true hurrahs for the NA non-hybrid ICEs n for manual transmissions. Keep in mind that the other manual high performance cars are the Koenigsegg CC850 n those before special options are well in excess of 5 million USD.
Not a _fan_ of the look of the fan (😉) but it isn't as pronounced if it's specced in black or dark shades. There's a few clips of a black car where you don't notice it really unless you're specifically lookin for it.
If you're lookin at a manual transmission NA V12 in particular then an option is buyin a Zonda n sendin it back to the factory to be manually converted n upgraded to a 760 spec but that again is gonna be upwards of 7-8 million USD at the least.
What are the battery problems with Taycan batteries they mentioned?
Yes the .T50 is a special thing and more an engineers car than a designers car. But I will bet that the running cost will be much lower than a lot of other stuff, adding to the enjoyment.
Good luck finding tyres for your Veyron on your drive to the alps after a puncture, just to name one of the positives.
And even if he makes a car for one in ten million people. That is still 788 people...
If I were lucky enough to be able to purchase a Gordon Murray car, I'd go for the T.33. I don't need a giant fan on the back of my V12 sportscar, or central driving position.
Tony's criticism of the T50 that the passenger has to get out first and get in last is bizarre. It's no different to a 2 door car with rear seats in which the rear passengers have to get in first and get out last, which is the case with most GT cars, lots of hot hatches and of course Tony's beloved Porsche 911
Interesting marketing fact - Car keys are deliberately heavy to give a feeling of quality, and make it an effort and event to use it. Nowadays a car key is just a tiny board and a chip, it could weigh almost nothing... yet every car key you've ever picked up is heavy.
So what they've done with that T.50 key makes perfect engineering sense but it'll feel like a toy.
The idea for next week is fantastic!
I've started a new job which means I will be doing around the average miles (10-12k per year). Previously had an M140 and GR Yaris however currently don't have a car.
The variety out there is insane and I can't narrow down what to get as I've never needed a commuting type car before.
I've looked at Fiestas (normal and ST) or a Focus but feel like I might be better with an auto?
Then looked at the new M135i but feel a 320i is probably a better bet.
The curve ball is Mazda's, namely the 3 and CX30 but they don't have anything spicy (but maybe that is ok)
Budget is somewhere between £15-30k and I want it to feel new so not a Golf R 7.5 as the interior looks horrendous now.
It would be interesting to see if Tony thinks that the prices will continue to drop into 2024 or if this is just a standard winter drop?
Hopefully the discussion next week will help answer some of the questions and I've already looked at the stock Tony has in atm.
What i want to see is an episode devoted entirely to sub £10k cars, top 10, best value etc. Used car prices are crashing at the moment, would be interesting to see what these two pick!
You guys need to take a look at the brand new Dacia Duster. Superb car
Harry Catchpole's review on the t50 is amazing 😊
Great video, really enjoyed the chat 👍
Well enjoyed as always
Tony is an absolute philistine.
The dog is the star of the show!
It's nice to hear a car podcast discuss normal hatchbacks. I'm in Australia, and I'm not a fan of the truck culture here.
Never heard anyone talk about the ‘ Fan ‘ on the T.50 does it even work?
It's too early for that I guess. It needs to be properly ripped around a track for it to be validated. I'm waiting for Chris Harris or Sport Auto to do a track review. From my understanding, the fan works kinda similar to the McMurtry Spéirling where it causes a suction effect. Also, for that to work as intended, it needs to be on a smooth n even track because slightly deep undulations, especially in a corner, will cause a loss in the suction effect n as a result send you fishtailin, possibly violently, because you'll be carryin a lot of speed goin into the corner. I can't recall whose video it was but durin a brief talk with one of the McMurtry engineers, it was said that even hitting the curb n the sudden change in the gap between the road n the underbody can cause unintended results. That being said, I truly do feel that this is an amazing product in terms of it being one of last true hurrahs for the NA non-hybrid ICEs. Not a _fan_ of the look of the fan (😉) but it isn't as pronounced if it's specced in black or dark shades. There's a few clips of a black car where you don't notice it really unless you're specifically lookin for it.
Brilliant episode as usual, I think they both should buy a sub £15k hatch and go on a road trip, north east 500 or Wales, 😮 bring it all back a peg in these difficult times.
Come on, T.50 is magnificent in every detail
I can totally relate to the buying experience you described. I know it's on another level but, I've been searching for a manual M2/M3 to test drive for months now. Eight official dealerships and one BMW group-owned dealership in my area don't have own cars or pool cars with a manual gearbox (no M2, no M3). Even after sending three emails to BMW, I haven't had any success. The experience here is even worse, with auto-generated replies that tell me I should go to a local dealership and that they do not print any info material anymore (which i haven’t even asked for). Currently, the car buying experience in Germany is not something I can recommend to someone else. At the moment, I have the impression that BMW doesn't want to sell cars with a manual gearbox (despite promoting it on CZcams and even through their engineers). Maybe I'm just not the right type of customer, and BMW expects customers to spend 80,000€ or more without being able to test that type of gearbox. I don't know, but right now, I'm more than disappointed.
Toni would probably prefer the t33 as it's more conventional with normal seat position and it's a spider😮
Bang on, Exactly what you are saying about the dealerships is a nightmare. No wonder Tesla is eating everybody else’s lunch. Zero paperwork, log onto your phone and take delivery
I didn't realise until 15 minutes in that Twiggy is on Tony's lap 😂
Please talk about your thoughts on the new 2024 dacia duster ( looks great )
Love my new a1, brilliant little city car.
Love how comfy Twiggy looks sleeping on Tony! Can´t wait to hear what you have to say this week. Cheers!
You should watch the Hagerty review on the Cybertruck and the related podcast from them. Lots of details.
Tony not understanding the T50 is exactly why I would want one.
haha yep
Cool podcast. Cyber truck is what happened when tell a kindergarten kid draw a truck.
You two need to pass your motorcycle tests and start riding sports bikes that have 12,13,14k rev limits and then you might , yes might have an understanding of where the T50 engine is coming from. Until then you might as well comment on the understeer of an atomic submarine.😅
I think you're find he designed the F1 Brabham which was a pile of crap. You will find steve Nicholls helped design mcclarens in their pomp. A good video watch jayemm interview Steve Nicholls.
Steer by wire is also a huge first for Cybertruck.
One positive with the t 50 you can take some luggage with you 😂
The number 1 selling vehicle in Australia 🇦🇺 for the last 2to 3 years were Dual Cab 4WD’s.
Why would Tony need to go shopping for cars?! 😂
Love that T50
These guys didn't listen to any reviews at all. Both reviews are saying the T.50 is fantastic to drive at lower speeds and that it is extremely involving even when not ringing it out due to the amount of feel and feedback from the manual steering, shifter, and tractability of the engine
omg Twiggy! Yessssss
“Might be an owner that lets us sit in a passenger seat”…. Oh come on Sam - what about a certain dark blue and silver car? 👀
Philip?
Should've left in you bollocking tony over eating on camera & the i5 phone call 🤣🤣
I got to 12:39 in this video before I noticed Twiggy on Tony's lap 😅
T50 is sick but i can only see a mk3 mr2 from the front lmao
I knew it reminded me of something… now that’s all I see 😭 T33 looks ace imo though
Didn’t you two hear in Australia the word Ute for pickup trucks?
What you said about T50 around 6:30 sec applies to Cybertruck or? So go figure how is it possible a super rare, hand built hyper car worth several million to be approached the same way as an electric truck which now came out quite far from what Musk announced 3-4 years ago (long delay, much more expensive, much smaller range, no exoskeleton...)
The T50 is meant to be the successor of McLaren F1. The biggest problem I have with it is it looks worse than the F1
If you watched the videos of Gordon Murray talking about the car during development, the T50 is meant to be a McLaren F1 without the limitations they had at the time. So for $2.5m for a very similar experience to an F1 is a bargain. All the issues pointed out exist with the F1, but that's 10x more money. I don't think people are cross shopping a Carrera GT or an F40 and a T50, at that money people would just have both/them all. I'd say the T50 is better put together with newer technology than both. It's also much cheaper than a manual Zonda.
That Sam still is trying to be negative about the t50 is very surprising. It should be a car that appeals to him more than any other new ”hyper car” with its light no nonsense approach and manual V12..
Talking about money and value regarding these cars is not very Interesting. The people buying these probably have cgt, F40 or whatever other car they want..😄
I think the idea of T50 is genius, it just doesn’t look that great.
The reason the pick up trucks are big in Australia is because they're a tax write off
You mean utes...
@@JJ-vy2rh Ye i live in Australia. I called them pick up trucks because thats what they were referred to as in the video lol