LONG RANGE OPTION?! 243 Winchester Hornady Precision Hunter 90gr ELD-X Ammo Test
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- čas přidán 11. 07. 2024
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In this video we’re going to do a ballistics gel test and review of the following hunting ammunition fired from the following test rifle:
- 243 Winchester Hornady Precision Hunter 90 grain ELD-X
- Winchester Model 70 Featherweight Compact chambered in 243 Winchester with a 20 inch barrel
All shots are fired from a distance of 100 yards so as to encompass the majority of common real world hunting scenarios.
I will be shooting into 10% ballistics gel from www.clearballistics.com that has been calibrated to meet the FBI ballistics testing protocol.
While ballistics gel isn’t an exact proxy for big game, small game, predators or defensive situations, it does provide a repeatable medium through which to test various bullets and ammunitions against each other.
With each type of ammo tested I collect data on bullet penetration depth, bullet weight retention, bullet expansion and muzzle velocity.
For reference, bullet expansion is measured at the widest expanded point using a calibrated Frankford Arsenal Digital Caliper.
Bullet weight is measured using a calibrated Frankford Arsenal Digital Scale after having removed as much ballistics gel as possible from the expanded bullets.
Bullet velocity is measured using a ProChronoPal chronograph set approximately 7-10’ from the shooting bench, depending on the cartridge and muzzle blast.
I am fully aware that a chronograph measuring bullet velocity from 10’ away from the muzzle is going to register a slower velocity than if velocity were measured directly at the muzzle, but that difference is going to be so small as to be all but irrelevant in regards to comparison of actual measured velocity versus factory stated velocity.
My goal with these ballistics gel tests is to provide hunters like you and I with the most objective information possible to help us make the best choice for our particular hunting situation.
The results of these tests are my own and I cannot guarantee the same or similar performance on your part. The views and opinions expressed in this video are solely my own.
All videos are filmed in a safe and controlled environment on a private range with all applicable safety precautions by a trained professional. - Zábava
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243 is a sweet round
This is one bullet I will never piss away money on again. Got one box of precision hunters and have taken three animals, two whitetail and a pronghorn…these bullets explode like a grenade and is incredibly hard on meat. One of the whitetails was a shoulder crease shot that hit a rib and nothing else, I found fragments clear back in the hind quarter, god I was livid! Never again with the eldx, I don’t care how high the BC is if it destroys meat.
Unfortunately this seems to be a common experience, the marketing machine behind ELDx and the people that continue to use it are wild when so many real world experiences are just like yours.
I first started testing hunting bullets decade's ago for penetration, expansion, and weight retention. There are better bullet choices today than used to be. In my opinion everyone should test the bullets they intend to hunt with. You will be amazed by what you learn.
The eldx seems to be solid I have friends that swear by it. Me myself I use a 243 because of its light recoil due to a shoulder injury. I use 100 grain partitions and out of a 22 inch barrel I can easily get over 3100 fps. I’ve used federals factory loads and kinda modeled my handloads after those and the results are amazing. The round just seems to be more powerful than it should be. It’s super accurate and also carries lethal energy farther than I need. Where I hunt the farthest shot I will ever need to make is around 250 yards. I’m sure this bullet will get the job done but for now I’m sticking with the partition.
Seems like hornady needs to use a thicker jacket or a bonded bullet. Totally agree with your opinions on this round.
Awesome! Looking at getting a 243 win, thank you for shedding light on the cartridge no one else does!!
sure would like to see a test with the 58 gr hornady bullets
That is one sweet looking rifle!
Bought a Sauer rifle in 6.5 creedmoor several years ago and got it set up and sighted in with the Hornady 143 Grain ELD-X. Shot a 130 lb for at 30 yards breaking a rib going on and exited through the offside. The deer went 5 yards and fell over with no external blood. Found lots of small pieces inside. I didn't feel comfortable and have since used Remington 140 grain Corelokt and American Whitetail in 129 grain loads. Both shoot well and give short recoveries. I do not see massive blood trails from the 6.5 Creedmoor, but most of the animals (Deer and hogs) really didn't go far because of the massive internal damage. Appreciate your ammunition reviews because they save me money and provide accurate assessments of the ammo you test. Thank you
Animals don't die from blood loss
Thank you. Not bad. This is decent velocity out of the 20". I would look a bit heavier just to get a bit more mass and expansion. May be acceptable for whitetail but....
Appreciate the good data.
I'm glad it performed the way it did. Massive impact. Good shock. Good final penetration. I'm excited for the initial shock for killing. I'm shooting these out of a h@r handing rifle with a 24" bull barrel. Bought 60 rounds last year for around 72$/60.
These videos are the best thing since rolled crappin paper.
Excellent video. Watched it just at the right time before buying to reload. Wanted to buy the same for a 243 because I can't find my usual 85gr. #1530 Sierra's. You saved me quite a few South African Rands. And the search continues...
Good video interesting!!
Sweet little rifle I want one
Very light recoil brother.😯👍👍
According to Hornady, in their design and testing of the ELD-X they designed it with an interlock core, where the mushroomed petals would break off and the bullet interlock and below would keep pushing thru. This was for close range (sub 200 yards) or so in mind, and then beyond that it would have bled off enough speed to actually perform as designed/intended. The problem is once you start mass producing something, things will go wrong, things wont be quite right etc... and then you get what you had with the 6.5. The interlock doesn't work and the bullet tears itself apart.
It's simply not a good whitetail deer bullet, where most shots are sub 200 yards or so. I'd probably use it if I was going out west for Mule deer or antelope but that's it.
Barnes X -bullets for the win!
I personal use Hornady superformance loads with a 95 grain sst bullet. It drops deer dead out to 250 yards. Any farther than that I use the 6.5prc
I just started experimenting with these in 6mm ARC in a 24" AR platform. I used 29 gr of Varget with a CCI 450 primer. First 4 shots were just under 1/2" then I dropped one creating a .752" group. Velocity was 2912 fps. Going to drop back to 28.5-28.0 grain of powder and see what happens. Not using the rifle for hunting though, it's for long(ish) range target. (Been using 105 gr berger hybrids but don't want to keep burning those up plus I'm just playing around to see what lighter weight/higher velocity does at longer ranges.)
Another great video thank you I wonder if those creedmoor bullets were boxed wrong. You might wanna try buying another box and redo that video? Something to. Think about.
I've been told that the copper quality received is critical to a bullet manufacturers all copper bullets performing as designed. I wonder if this couldn't be an explanation for some of the failures of jacketed bullets as well? Just something I've wondered about.
The ELD line is designed for low impact velocities at long range. If my impact velocities are 2500+ id rather have a barnes. If my impact velocities are around 1500, and ELD performs excellently. Use the proper bullet for your use case.
Far too many people choose their bullets on packaging or advertising. They think it’s made for extreme long distance do it must be better or more accurate than a heavier jacketed bullet or one that is bonded. So many think because they can squeeze the trigger or own a rifle that they know all they need to about hunting or shooting.
I'm looking to upgrade from my trusty 30-30 Marlin 336 I have never used a 243 however I have used a 308 and 30.06 , I don't really hunt bigger game just hogs and white tail deer, I don't really have the need for a cannon
Federal fusion, and Barnes tipped X are a couple better than the ELD-X and I've hunted with all 3, in 30-06.
Totally agree with that. I use the same or Accubond.
Nosler Partition is another option I've heard is quite good.
Would love to see some tests on berger classic hunter or VLD Hunting Bullets
@@DinoNucci go take your blood pressure medication man an calm down.
Even out of my 24 inch barrel I don't get the 3100 I get around 3040 fps out of this stuff
I didn't see ant lead left on the expansion pics. Did the lead separate from the jacket. I watched the 6.5 vid and aside from jacket separation they didn't "explode". Not a good hunting round but exploded is a bit much.
I have had the best results with the 80 grain Barnes TTSX bullets out of the 243
Can you do a video on the nosler trophy grade 165 grain accubond? 308 winchester
Hi, is a 53cm barrel for .243 win enough?
While I love many Hornady products the ELD-X ain’t one for me. Here in SC 400 yards and further shots is not the norm. And I’ve seen too many friends shoot deer at less than 100 yards with really poor results. Most were the 6.5CM.
I use those Hornady Super Performance 95gr in my 6mm Rem,, WooooW! Do these changes things in that old Tikka M55,,it turns 6mm Rem, into a 7mm-08,,
I've been wanting a featherweight compact for awhile now. They just never seem to come back in stock anywhere. Only one I can find is in 6.8 Western. How long have you had yours?
They’re awesome, it’s such a handy rifle and even though it’s a bit smaller I can still shoot it very very well, doesn’t seem too small when shouldering it … I’ve had mine since early 2019 so over 4 years at this point, it was tough to get even then. I look for them still, I’d love one in another caliber but like you said, I’m only seeing them in 6.8 Western for some reason.
Where can I see the 645 Creedmoor video?
Guess Hornady figured the 6.5 CM Precision Hunter would only be hunting paper..
Besides velocity, how different do you think it would’ve performed with a 24” barrel .Also, 30-06 terminal accent video would be cool
It’s hard to say, it may have been exactly like this or they might’ve broken up with more speed
I used ELDX for my 7 mm mag for long range shots. I hit a small whitetail buck at just shy of 200 yards (not long range). The bullet completely exploded. The buck was quartering towards me and I just nicked the leg bone. Not a single shed of bullet went through the rib cage but traveled along the ribs and shredded it’s liver, stomach and intestines. It was hideous.
I felt that maybe it was my shot placement so the following year I hit a much larger buck at about the same distance but broadsided. The shot placement was perfect. The bullet performance was atrocious. It blew up again. It destroyed the entrance shoulder and did not make it out the other side. I hit one rib. I have no doubt that a Remington core lock would have been a far better bullet. I will only use my remaining ELDX for target shooting.
Thanks for sharing your experience, lots and lots of similar stories like this
@treverthompson7245 bother were within 100 yards from where they were shot.
So it seems that the eldx bullets are hit and miss. I’m personally going to stick with my accubonds for hunting.
Partitions come in second after bonded!
@@DinoNucci yes especially with all the high velocity cartridges out there, I personally use a 270 and a 300 wby and I run accubonds in both
@@dr.froghopper6711 never used a partition but that’s what my buddy uses In his 375 H&H for moose and he loves them
Hi.i like your channel you do a nice job. But my learning lessons from a Winchester chart made back in the 1980s. Specifically showed after shooting every bullet made, was that lead responded perfectly upon impact at at speeds between 2400 and 2500 feet per second. At lower speeds of impact not as much expansion, at greater speeds of impact lead brakes apart. The chart is on you tube... Unless it's been taken down... Thanks for you videos...
The 2650 they show on the box would be at 215 yards using the published velocity and B.C., while it is that velocity at 110 yards with your starting velocity, so it is not performing as advertised.
At less than 200, the stardard 100 grain .243 bullet is a much better use of $ than the "extreme low drag" bullet on deer sized game.
Actually it is exactly working as advertised. On the ELD-X landing page Hornady states - providing 50-60% weight retention -
Varmint extermination, sure.
Harvesting meat? Maybe if one likes fragments of bullet all splattered through it.
I'd personally use a good .30-30 load over this, if the range was the same. Nice big hole ripped through, bullet holding together, and plenty of penetration without the explosion of fragments. That's the trouble with the high velocity stuff, a lot of projectiles just tear up (at closer ranges).
Hornady ELD-X IS a good bullet. It's just not designed for closer, or even moderate distances. It was designed with long range shooting in mind, and its design and construction reflects that. ELD-X is as a streamlined, high BC bullet that was designed to deliver long range terminal performance. It was created to extend the effective range of any given round, and in order to give it good terminal performance at long range, they had to design it with a thinner copper jacket so it would still expand and mushroom effectively at the lower velocity of those long distances. I also suspect that the lead may also be formulated to be a bit softer as well to help aid expansion. In my opinion, due to its construction parameters, ELD-X is not meant to be shot under 200 yds. However, at 250-300yds and beyond, it is excellent. That's where it shines.
So, this is why ELD-X has a less than stellar reputation at shorter, or more moderate hunting distances, because the velocity is still too high for the thinner wall of the bullet, and it runs a higher risk of it coming apart upon impact at those distances. This is also why you are seeing less than stellar results shooting into ballistics gel at 100 yds, and is probably why you saw complete failure of the bullets shooting ELD-X with 6.5 Creedmoor. The velocity is still too high at that distance for the bullet's construction and it runs a higher rate of failure.
I have always seen ELD-X as a long distance ONLY bullet design, and at longer range it performs extremely well. In fact, Backfire recently did a video about elk cartridges and he conduced a poll with hunting guides that have shot countless elk, and have seen countless elk been taken with all kinds of bullets, and the number one bullet recommended by them, by a wide margin, was Hornady ELD-X. That's because it's designed and perfectly matched for long distance shooting, which is typical for elk hunting out west.
Again, ELD-X is an excellent bullet. It's just not designed to for shorter to medium range shooting where the velocities are still too high for its construction. Shoot it at longer distances, and that's where it does extremely well.
Straight from the Hornandy ELD-X landing page - providing 50-60% weight retention - so yes it is accepted design to shed a substantial amount of weight. This is no Accubond, isn’t market as one and doesn’t have the price 😁.
Completely fragmenting and a tendency for core jacket separation are of course an issue.
It appears the Hornady design team may have gone overboard with their polymer tipped bullets and put them on bullets that weren't broke. I noticed your review of Federal Fusion .243 ammo showed that ammo performed extremely well. Hornady offers a video on their CZcams channel how they came to the conclusion a special polymer tip was necessary to improve accuracy. While that might have been the case with some of their loads, it appears it might not have been a good, across the board solution. Who knows, maybe its a case where Product Marketing won a battle with the Design Team.
Minor correction. The tip wasn't designed or required for accuracy. The tip was designed to prevent deformation due to atmospheric heating during flight which was detrimental to BC. This typically only applies to bullets with significant time of flight, i.e. long range. So they developed the ELD line with this tip to maintain high BCs and reliably expand at extended ranges. The ELD line comes into it's own at 350+ yards, and shines at 500+. Which is only applicable to maybe 10% of hunters.
I'd like to see 150 grn. ELDX IN 7MM-08.
About a month and a half ago I took 2 feral goats with 1 shot with a Hornady ELD-M round. Didnt see a young billy behind the Nanny I was shooting at.. straight pass through the Nanny into the spine of the billy were the bullet finally fragmented into the billy organs. The billy was dead in minutes. Not saying they are the best bullets for hunting but for me they did just fine.
6.5 CM just to clarify
Try hornady 95 grain super performance. I like that one.
SST?
I’ve tried the 180 grain .308 and 260 grain Nosler Accubonds on deer hand loaded in mu 30-06 and375 RUM on several deer. They sail right through like a FMJ. They absolutely suck on thin skinned whitetails. Always wondered how the Hornady version you tested would do. Fragments to me equals a quick recovery with alot of kinetic energy dump. I like bullets that shed and Fragment along the way to create several wound channels. Nosler bullets group way more accurate in EVERY gun I own. Hornady bullets I get to shoot accurately but with alot of ladder testing and various powders. If you don't hand load try to find some factory loaded nosler partitions. The 90 grain swift scirrocos I load for a friend he kills deer every year with them...but they run on an everage of 60 plus yards with text book heart and lung shots. They don't expand on thin skinned game very well either unless heavy bone is hit.
What kind of damage do they do on a hog head ?
6mm vs. 6.5 mm different bullets. May be the same make, brand, and weight. Was the twist rate the same?
The problem is the short distance he is shooting at with long range bullets. They are constructed to perform at extreme long range not close range. You have to match the bullet to the game and distances you are hunting. I wouldn’t use this bullet inside of 300 yards.
Having shot deer w this bullet in a 2506, 308, and 270 wsm and all at fairly close ranges-145 yards wad the farthest shot and that was on a TINY doe w the 2506, I must say your test results w the 6.5 was pretty much spot on for this bullet. I'm not impressed. Very rapid explosive impact w not much penetration. On a BIG bodied missouri whitetail I doubt you would even have an exit wound inside 150 yards w any of the calibers I mentioned if you hit heavy bone. That's worrisome in my book. I like good heavy blood trails
After reviewing a few of your 243 videos, it appears that your amazing 243 has a "slow" barrel.
Have you considered including ballistic information utilizing BC and observed velocity? It would add a lot to the story.
.243 is an 'overbore' cartridge, and as such, needs more barrel to use up the powder. Another 4" of barrel on that rifle would make more difference than one might imagine.
It’s a 20” barrel on a 243, which needs max barrel length to wring out the cartridges capability, I’ve tested over 100 loads from multiple calibers from around a dozen rifles at this point, it’s not a particularly “slow barrel”, it’s in line with everything else, a 20” barrel in 243 is going to be way under the already outlandishly high velocities printed on the boxes.
Anyone can look up the ballistic coefficients of these bullets, I’m unconcerned with that, these are tests for performance on impact.
I show the velocities in every video, I don’t know what you mean by “observed velocity.”
@@masonleather If I came across as critical, it was not my intent.
By observed velocity, I mean the velocities that you show. Another respondent pointed out that the reduced observed velocity (compared to the advertised velocity) significantly changes the range at which you could expect adequate performance from the cartridge. That assessment requires knowing the ballistic coefficient of the bullet, and I think it would be useful if you included that evaluation in your videos. It is just a recommendation.
Another recommendation that I think would be found interesting is a comparison of your results between similar bullet weights of the same cartridge. Putting expansion, velocity, and other external ballistic information up head to head would be very educational.
Thank you for all your work.
@@ronjones1414 Getting that data is pretty easy, right off the munitions manufacturer website. Mason shows the box and the specific product, it's easy to find on their websites. Also, Shooterscalculator website is not difficult to use for the average person who has a few variables to plug in, and it generates a chart to whatever resolution (down to the 1 or 5 yard increments) you choose, in a mere click and a mere second. Play around with the sites and learn how they work. I find it pretty fun.
Target bullets
I'd buy a leather cartridge holder but I lie to myself 😅😅... eldx is good for targets and varmints... Hornady bullets are inconsistent
For deer and elk who wants all of that lead blown up in the meat you or possibly your children are going to eat. That kind of fragmentation is gonna be everywhere in the meat. Iv switched to all copper and would never go back.. Barnes LRX and hammer hunter.
Dont buy any - more for me and maybe the price will go down. These bullets rock!
I find it nearly impossible to believe that the 6.5 Creed ELD-X’s exploded on impact. I’m not discounting the real experience you had. Hornady quality control is so good and that bunch of boys working there would commit Hari Kari if they let loads like that slip out from their shop.
Thus I would love for a Hornady guy to make comment here. This is nonsensical from the best manufacturers in the world for bullets and cartridges.
They blew up because they are target bullets and not hunting bullets.
I have shot two red deer at point blank range (three feet and six feet) with this bullet at a muzzle velocity of 3050fps and although people think of it as a long range bullet, it did not blow up on the surface or anything like that. It's a good bullet just as Hornady say, at any range.
Your review is a bit harsh, isn't it. These bullets penetrated at least 17", the two you found penetrated 21". How thick, side to side, is a typical whitetail? Certainly under 21". All of your shots, if broadside chest shots, would have delivered tremendous shick at around 5" of penetration and would have exited, resulting in destroyed lungs and two holes. That deer would have been dead on it's feet with zero blood pressure, and might have been able to move for 5 to 10 seconds before collapse. This is basically a more streamlined and slightly better version of the old Remington Core-Lokt bullet... one of the best deer bullets. Not an all-around bullet, about perfect for hunters shooting out of a blind and taking broadsire shots. Yes, it would absolutely shred a coyote given the expansion cavity would be at max diameter as the bulet exits, leaving a hole you could stick your fist in.
How thick a deer is isn’t part of the evaluation. I’m evaluating the ammo’s overall performance to other ammo when shot into ballistics gel.
These bullets are going to work better at longer ranges. 100 yards is not long range. I would expect that bullet to come apart like that because it’s constructed to mushroom and work at lower speeds which is what it will be doing at longer ranges. Inside of 300 yards I would go with a bullet with thicker walls and bonded so it doesn’t blow up at shorter distances and at higher speeds. You need to match the bullets to the game and ranges you are hunting.
They may work better at longer range, they also advertise it right on the box as working well at ~100 yard and under impact velocities depending on the specific cartridge. The 6.5 Creedmoor load had a lower velocity at the muzzle than what’s advertised right on the back of the box graphic, and it still failed with flying colors, when its impact velocity at 100 yards was substantially under advertised viable thresholds, by hundreds of FPS. The stories of failure are legion, elk shot half a dozen times, bullets that explode and don’t penetrate the shoulder at all, zero expansion pinholing through at long range… the objective facts point to ELD-X bullets (thus far at least), being an absolute wild card at any distance. For every person praising them there’s also a horror story.
24” bbl - 20” bbl = 4”
Hornady says rule of thumb is you lose 50fps for every inch of bbl you reduce.
So 4” x 50 = 200.
You saw about 250 avg reduction.
Their ball park of “50 per inch” is a good quick rule of thumb and it seems to work more or less.
All my centerfire rifles have at LEAST a 24 inch barrel. Why build a fire and then throw water on it with a weak ass short barrel. If you want a woods gun, get a lever 30-30.
because not everyone needs or wants a 49 inch rifle that weighs 8lbs. I'd love to have a compact 20 inch barrel synthetic rifle to take spot of my heavy wooden stock 30-30 that has a 20 inch barrel.
Some cartridges are much less sensitive to barrel lengths. .308 Winchester is one example, still runs quite well in shorter barrels.
Lotta people including me don't care for these. There are much better options out there
That test is not valid. You fired multiple shots into the one cavity . Those projectiles are designed to expand normally at longer ranges where the velocity has dropped off . At short rages they are too fragile . Only 57% weight retention proves it .
Hornady ELDX is nothing but a rebranded cup & draw target bullet. Once you get a real job and start making decent money, do yourselves a favor and get some real hunting ammo tipped with real bullets. Federal Terminal Ascent, Nosler Partition and Accubond, Hornady CX and Internond, all of the Barnes, Swift Scirroco and A-Frame, Hammer. He'll, even the Remington Core Lokt is a superior bullet to the ELDX.
The ELDX is hardly alone when it comes to producing sub standard reults. Berger and Sierra both make great match bullets. F class shooters all swear by these bullets, but paper targets and gongs are both easily killed.
The bottom line is this; You're all hunters, NOT snipers. The name of the game is executing a lethal kill shot to humanely dispatch the animal in ALL conditions. Gusting winds, sleet, rain, frigid cold, and scorching heat. ALL of these things affect bullet flight and thus the impact location. A small 8 mph breeze will blow bullet several inches off course. This means that your "classic" behind the shoulder shot can end up in the dense muscle and bone. That pathetic "Wanna-be" ELDX will be woefully inadequate.
Eldx ! Suck !!