What if Poland Gave up Danzig to Germany?
Vložit
- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- Historically, Poland refused to give Danzig and the corridor to Germany. This gave another reason for Germany to invade Poland, starting World War Two. France and Britain defended Poland, more and more countries got involved and were invaded over time.
But what if Poland agreed to give up some of their lands, would peace be preserved in Europe?
▬ LINKS ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
Discord Server - / discord
Patreon - / membership
CZcams Membership - / @rewriting-history
▬ Chanel Description▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
This channel is a haven for those who crave intellectual stimulation and love to ponder the profound "what ifs" of history. Join our passionate community of history enthusiasts, where engaging discussions and insightful commentaries fuel our collective imagination.
Subscribe now and embark on this enthralling adventure with us. Prepare to question, wonder, and discover as we navigate the corridors of time, peeling back the layers of history to reveal a tapestry of alternate paths and captivating possibilities.
Welcome aboard, fellow explorers of alternative history. Let's rewrite the past together!
▬ Contents of this video ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
00:00 - Video Intro
00:20 - The Creation of Poland
02:00 - Poland Gives up Land
03:42 - How could Poland ally with Germany?
05:40 - Why the Allies won't intervene
06:35 - German-Polish-Italian Alliance
07:01 - Coin from Poland-Lithuania
07:13 - German-Polish invasion of Lithuania
07:30 - The Soviet Union declares war on Germany
10:15 - Peace Treaty
10:42 - Why France and Britain won't attack
11:08 - Japan's hopeless situation
11:47 - What if Germany NEVER invades the Allies
12:43 - What if Germany invades the France and Britain
14:22 - Peace Treaty
14:57 - Video Outro
The thing about this scenario is, would the Poles really want to give up access to the sea and potentially ally Germany only for them to backstab Poland anyway
This is one way this could happen, but I came up with something more interesting, you need to let me know what you think
Only that Germany would not have backstabbed Poland and that Germany could easily block Poland's access to the sea anyway.
Actually, there is a book about the potential alliance between 3rd reich and Poland. It is called Ribentrop-Beck or something like that. Funnily enough, if this scenario ever came to be, the alliance would be relatively strong since both countries would be drawn closer due to their enmity with the soviets.
I would say if poles were given access to the German sea as part of the treaty it could have gone along
But why would they do that?
Just to be clear, the German demand was to annex Danzig, construct an extraterritorial highway through the Polish corridor and for Poland to join the anti-Comintern pact. They never said anything about all lands lost by Germany after World War 1.
They initially demanded the annexation of the polish corridor before being talked down to the highway, which was still rejected. Despite that, they never demanded silesia.
1:04 The deal shown here is not the german demands. It was significantly less harsh than shown.
Their demands wasnot the whole Danzig corridor but:
1) to have referendums in the Danzig corridor that allowed people who were residents before the end of ww1 to participate in the referendums.
2) guarantee that Gdynia would still be Polish and that Poland would get access to it via a corridor of roads and rails if votes cut it off, and visa versa Germany would get a corridor to east prussia of the votes still leave it cutt off.
3) the offer to give Poland access to not only Danzig but other German ports for special trade.
It was all in all a very reasonable deal. The only reason it was rejected is the Poles correctly didn't trust the Nazis, especially after what happened to the Czechs.
which like yeah the Nazis weren't going to stop, they had ideological commitments to invade the USSR
POV: Danzig for Slovakia focus goes through
More like Danzig for Lithuania :P
@@rewriting-history FINALLY I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE TO THINK THAT.
Imagine if Germany simply traded Memel for Polish corridor!
@@P0PG03SMemel doesn't border Poland and Poland would have no sea Access
@@P0PG03Syou can't trade one German inhabited land for another if your goal is to unite the Germans
@@einmensch-nt9sithere's always one Wehraboo
"Wait, fuck, that wasn't supposed to happen. Uhh... Declare war anyways."
Trueee
Bro interrupts the video to flex his centuries-old silver coin, mad respect
Quick correction: The US only put an embargo on Japan after they seized French Indochina after France fell to the Germans. If France didn't surrender in this scenario, I don't think that Japan would go to war with the Allies. Although taking all of China will still be very difficult, I don't think that Japan would be completely screwed.
i wrote like 2 years ago something about that so i dont remember the details
but before the full embargo there were already things from the us against japan about the petroleum
The Japanese would have gone ahead with ( Kantokuen ) the planned invasion of Siberia Russia to Lake Baikal and half of Mongolia it was cancelled on the 9th of August 1941 the US oil embargo was on the 1st and the invasion was to be September 1941.
Not to mention, the Japanese had enough oil for a year in a stokepile, so in December 1942, if the Germans invaded in 1940, the Japanese would have likely gone ahead and not cancelled Kantokuen.
Nie mieliśmy oddać Gdańska, tylko zrzec się roszczeń do niego i dać zgodę na eksterytorialną autostradę przez naszą część Pomorza. Nic nie było mowy o oddaniu Pomorza z Gdynią, Poznania oraz cześci Wielkopolski.
Zgadza się
widze że jeszcze ktoś umie myśleć
dodać do tego jeszcze prawa niemców na polskich ziemiach (bo wiadomo co sie działo), i nie było by wojny
@@leongashwig Tak jak Czechom wystarczyło oddać sudety? A "prześladowania niemców to gebelsowska propaganda.
@@leongashwig "i nie było by wojny" to bardzo naiwne stwierdzenie.
@@Cnodax1 światowej
believing that Germans wouldn't take anymore of Polish land is like believing that Hitler would stop after Sudetenland
Poland became a German puppet state, why take more land directly? They're already occupying all of Russia
Germany didn't want war?
@@RusNationalSocialist_Which is why they wanted to wipe the Slavic race.
@@RusNationalSocialist_ They did? Like even socialist wanted to "retake" Gdansk and some even wanted to return to 1914 monarchy borders.
@@rewriting-history That's exactly what happened with Czechoslovakia tho, they took the valuable parts (aka Czechia) and made a Slovakia puppet state out of the rest.
I think that in The Axis - Soviet War, The Allies would actually be more likely to support the former rather than the latter; as they had always viewed The Soviets as the greater threat prior to World War II.
Maybe you're right, but I don't think it changes the scenario in any way, even if they supported Germany. The Germans would still win
Before ww2 however with Germany being aggressive and soviets losing land to a German invasion Allie’s would send aid to the soviets in an effort to contain the Germans. They would definetly have likely. Putting off aid when soviets look strong enough plus in a world where soviets attack first the Allie’s would’ve aided the Germans had soviets invaded and pushed in
@rewriting-history The Japanese would have likely crushed the Chinese if they had no other enemies to fight even in 1945, the Chinese launched a massive offensive that failed why basically crippling the Nationalist Chinese.
Not to mention ( Kantokuen ) the Japanese invasion of Siberia Russia to Lake Baikal and half of Mongolia was cancelled on the 9th of August 1941 after the us oil embargo on the 1st, the invasion was set for September, with the German's winning/ starting the war in 1940 the Japanese would have likely joined in September 1941 like they had planed in our own time line, they had even put forward plans in 1939/1940 however I don't believe they would have been ready to till 1941.
@@brianlong2334 a lot of northern China was constantly sabotaging Japanese military with partisan activity and rebellions.
Japan had already signed a non aggression pact with the Soviet Union in April 1941 due to the fact they had determined a fight against Russia would be unproductive just make the war in China far harder and give them very little in return for how much it would cost to simply invade Siberia.
If Japan was gonna crush China they would’ve done so already before 1945 however the terrain Japan was running into was far too rough and they couldn’t get any decisive engaments as the Chinese had adapted to fight Japan much better than they had prior denying the Japanese large decisive battles in favor of smaller battles and sabotage via partisans. Part of the reason Japan stuck was also that the Allie’s had been sending aid to China for years so it sought to take the sea to deny further lend lease to China as well as closing the Burma road this means over the himalayans was the only way China got outside support and it was a lot lower than before
Yes but as we know it all went out the window, because while they knew the threat soviets posed, Churchill sold the empire for his war
I don't think it would really work. Some points why down:
1. Gdynia and Gdańsk were too important in terms of trade. Being landlocked is not really good. Śląsk (Silesia) was important industry center. It would be huge loss. Meanwhile Wielkopolska with Poznań was really important from historical standpoint: it is literally "Greater Poland" since original Piast monarchy came from there.
2. Would it stop Germans? I don't think. Just by looking at Czechoslovakia: first Sudetenland, then whole country. And Germany was not trying to avoid war at this point, since Poland was outnumbered and surrounded, with Soviets ready to backstab Poland (and claim they were liberating)
3. Poland and Poles in German plans and ideology: first is Lebensraum. Poland was seen as new living space for germans. So what would happen with poles? Simple: some of them (small part) would be germanized, some murdered in concentration camps, some sent to Russia to die working in Siberia mines (general Ostplan if I remember). Polish lands would be given to germans, and Poland would be erased from map. Its important to remember, that Poles were seen as second-class humans, one or two steps above Jews, but still. Not just by Nono-party, but even before, Poles were opressed in Kaiser Germany (for example forced out of their homes), and Bismarck was known to hate Poles. In late 40's, despite already removing most of Jewish population, Aushwitz was still builded bigger. Why? Simple: Poles would be next to be removed.
So i dont think any form of agreement with n*zi could have been made. Its hard to make deals, when one side seeks to murder other.
The first portion I would like to mention is the independent state of Slovakia. Had Poland accepted any political attempt by Germany other than the demand of Danzig it might have turned out differently. The main reason that most people don't talk about is the complete and utter disregard for the German Diplomats by the Polish. Another key part was that entire region was originally inhabited by Germanic people for a few hundred years at that point. Yes it had belonged to Poland for some time beforehand and the Teutonic Order before that, but it being in Prussian hand from the 1600s onwards made it very German. That coupled with the fact that the Entente pretty much forced all Germans out of there after WW1 and had the population bolstered by the Polish French and English didn't help relations.
@@Thebaconmurderer Silesia belonged to Czech for a very long time and if ever we were to debate who has more right to have it it's Czech first, then Poland, Austria and later Germany. Germany was forcing ex silesia citizens from all across Germany to participate in referendum who gets the land while Polish population didn't have that much data since it wasn't on the maps for a century.
We had polish population in Pomerania and we deserved the sea access after Greater Poland's uprising. Danzig is danzig guess there were a lot of Germans but the Danzig corridor controlled by Poland had polish majority you can see that on maps and it has nothing to do with forcing anyone out after WW1. Germans were leaving eastern front after WW1 and those who stayed were the residents. We lost olender population after WW2 which is a tragedy, netherlandish settlers that were invited during first commonwealth of Poland-Lithuania.
@@Thebaconmurderer Gdańsk became Prussian in 1772, not in 1600'. And yes, by 1930s many ex-polish teritories became mostly german, but how? Germans repressed, relocated and forced Poles out of many regions. They were maybe a bit better occupants than Russians, but still occupants.
Another thing is after WW1 Germany got what they did previously. In 1870 they humiliated France by provoking war and winning it. They took Alsace-Lorraine against local people will and demanded huge reparations.
So now they: launched invasion of France and attacked Belgium despite its neutrality, caused horrific destruction in both, launched full scale underwater war and lost. So it just make sense to do what they did to France: take back land they took in 1870 and for Poland some of land from 1772, and give them reparations to pay.
Funny that Silesia never was polish. The two dutchies of Silesia where Vasalls of the Bohemian King and subjects of the HRE. As the last Bohemian King died the Austrian monrchy inheritet Bohemia and Silesia.
@@PeterJ1851 Not never. It was for some time in early medieval, and in 1930's parts of Silesia was mainly inhabited by Poles.
5:00 as a pole myself, I must say that an error is here. The Endecja or the „SN” was indeed nationalist, but it was strictly antigerman. Roman Dmowski, the founder of SN in the days of the Russian Empire said that the poles should cooperate with the Russians, and he was strictly anti-German. I don’t see the SN cooperating with Germany.
Thank you for letting me know, there was no way for me to learn it. I remember that when I was reading about it, I came to an article that was only 200 words long, so not enough information.
@@rewriting-historyno problem bro, still liked the video
Ask czechoslovakia if it worked for them to give up part of their country with the condition of not taking the rest of it...
Also, Hitler never demanded any territorial cessions from Poland. He only wanted extra-territorial highway to Eastern Prussia, and admission of Dantzig to Germany.
My bad here, I gave them a bit too much, mistake on my end with the mapping
That’s a territorial cession
@@collinleecrawford No it isn't. According to this logic territorial cession examples are foreign embassies.
About japan:
The entire reason they struck south to obtain resources, was because the UsA embargoed them for occupying french indochina.
With no vichy french to take land from, Japan would not get embargoed and keep trade going, yes?
Japan literally would never strike south and they would eventually beat out china
I think that Japan would still lose. China was starting to mobilize and has an advantage in a long war. Historically, the war want on for 8 years and Japan still hasn't beaten them
Huh?? Wtf lol Japan had conquered all of costal China while fucking fighting with the allies, they would have won or had a good peace deal @@rewriting-history
@@rewriting-history Hey, I think I posted a similar comment earlier. I just wanted to let you know that China received large amounts of weapons, ammunition, tanks, etc from the allies via routes through Burma. Had the Allies not gone to war against Japan, I doubt that China would be able to win. Remember that Japan was still able to launch offensives into China even when they were losing in the Pacific, were at a 3:1 numerical disadvantage, and had exhausted their forces and economy. Even when the USSR invaded Manchuria, China couldn't kick Japan out of their country.
@@joblolutherthe Japanese would still only be able to occupy the coast even without the need to divert troops to take on the Allie’s China was just too vast and the guerrlia warfare meant they needed as many troops as possible just to deal with the hundred million Chinese they would be occupying on the coast America would still end up selectively embargoing Japan due to public opinion being anti Japanese in America
Japan took indochina before being embargoed by America for oil
your content is the best! Keep going
Glad you enjoy it! I really appreciate the kind words, I wouldn't say I'm the best, but I'm working to get there. With your support, I can really upload great videos. Thank you!
@@rewriting-history there are also other people who make good content of course but your content is one of the best thats what Im saying
Yes, Hitler’s health was on the decline but it was sped up by the stress of commanding the people of Germany Europe and the eastern, western, and southern fronts meaning hitler would be less stressed than our timeline and hitler would be less likely to take hard drugs.
I think I should make part 2 as the Allies would for sure take the Germans easily, since the Germans are overstreched.
He had zero understanding of drug dependency and addiction. He was taking drugs for years before even leading Germany to my knowledge.
Your gonna hit 1 million subs just keep going!
My guy is still promoting that video like it's fresh out the oven. I respect that.
I gotta reach 34k views, this is what we agreed for part 2, right? :D
@@rewriting-history Yup
on scenario 2 you forgot italys potential impact, germany and italy could have attacked from the south and germany in the north meeting in the middle
italys role is viable because they didn't invest into the l3 for their africa war and instead developed some better tanks, they also didn't get their ass kicked in the area of romania
but italy could have attacked yugoslvia or even france out of "i want to help germany" ruining germanys plans
Great work🎉
Thank you so much 😀Really appreciate it, soon more cool scenarios to come!
I aint sure why the allies help the soviets. Germany didn't have the lowland industry as well as french in this scenario, but tge reds were seen the same evil as the Germans, especially after Bessarabia and Finland. Also Germans were funding their nuclear program up until the dead end of the Reich. Also it is hard to establish a positioning warfare with tanks and planes and super quickly advancing technology.
Also Germany couldn’t make the nuclear bomb because of a sabotage in Norway where they were taking resources to built it
one correction: danziger corridor isnt the whole area germany lost to poland after ww1, but only a part of polish pomorenia that connects germany to prussia. There was also alternative compromise that assumed that poland will agree on annexing danzig and creation of an exterritorial highway between germany and prussia
I would like to point out that the video doesn't only include Danzig but the whole of West Prussia and poznan regions. This would be unrealistic since poznan had a large polish population.
I'm very well aware about Poznan. It's not unreasonable to think they would want to give up a million poles, just so they can secure an alliance with the USSR and keep hold of 12+ million people in the east
@@rewriting-history Honestly, I can see Germany being more than fine with Gdingen(Gdynia) and Danzig(Gdansk) cities to connect Eastern Prussia with Pomerania Proper. Think Germany also issued a proposal to just build a highway over Polish territory to connect their Prussian territories, but were denied.
Poznan and West Prussia were collateral that Hitler can look past most likely, considering Kattowitz would probably be a bigger point for them, given its industrial capacity is mightier than Poznan or West Prussia with its mineral deposits.
Back again with another banger, i see
Damn right, hope you liked it!
Wtf, the ''roman salute'' was used in the united states at the time, and their is no such a thing of ''right wing internationalism'', polish nationalists where anti german. This scenario is stupid
Then why did you watch this anyway?
@@RKFernost-Siberia Huh? Because this scenario could have been credible, or at least more believable, if it had been written differently. If, for example, the negotiations between the Polish military government and Germany had been successful, or if Poland was simply under international pressure to make territorial concessions to Germany. But the idea that the Polish far-right of the time, the Polish Phalangists for exemple, would come to power, and negotiate territorial losses from Poland to Germany, is just frankly absurd.
If poland give germany danzig and rest .World War II would have broken out anyway, but with a delay, and perhaps Poles would have sided with the Axis and not so many Poles would have died.
No, many Poles would have died, and moreover they would have been subjected to the Nazis
You are close to what I came up with, I didn't want to make it so obvious, but you're getting there
Hitler still hated the slavs and jews living in Poland.
I think Germany may still have invaded Poland
Majority of Poles would have died or been Germanised, but not I. 1939-45 but in 1950s-60s after German victory.
Very interesting! Subscribed!
Thanks for the sub! Really appreciate it!
@@rewriting-history np!
Love your content 😊😊😊❤❤
Love your support, really appreciate it!
@@rewriting-history always
I am speaking to you from the cabinet room at 10 Downing Street. This morning the British ambassador in Berlin handed the German government a final note stating that unless we heard from them by 11 o'clock that they were prepared at once to withdraw their troops from Poland, a state of war would exist between us. I have to tell you now that no such undertaking has been received, and that consequently this country is at war with Germany.
You can imagine what a bitter blow it is to me that all my long struggle to win peace has failed. Yet I cannot believe that there is anything more, or anything different, that I could have done and that would have been more successful. Up to the very last it would have been quite possible to have arranged a peaceful and honourable settlement between Germany and Poland. But Hitler would not have it. He had evidently made up his mind to attack Poland whatever happened, and although he now says he put forward reasonable proposals which were rejected by the Poles, that is not a true statement. The proposals were never shown to the Poles, nor to us, and though they were announced in the German broadcast on Thursday night, Hitler did not wait to hear comments on them, but ordered his troops to cross the Polish frontier the next morning.
-Neville Chamberlain
War was unavoidable, Poland, even if they had given up Danzig would have been invaded. Hitler, the shit nazi he was saw Poland as the closest possible subhuman nation to annex, assimilate and genocide no matter what. Also lots of Polish majority cities had sizable german-speaking minorities. While he thought Poles to be more assimilatable due to interbreeding the dictator also thought of ENTIRE Poland as a part of Greater Germany
"defend" is a very generous word when it comes to describing the actions of our allies when germany attacked
Guys just a quick reminder It’s called Gdańsk not Danzing. Danzing is a German version that was only used by Germany. They called it Danzing cause they wanted to take over that city
Ah yes, the "wolod warld"
exactly!
I liked this scenario!
I also am curious about your coin collection.
Really appreciate that you liked the video! I think I should livestream me showing my coins, so you guys can see what I have.
I would actually like that, to be honest!!
The video is interesting, but I find the scenario to be quite unrealistic for some reasons.
First, it is not because Poland is led by a far-right party that Poland would accept the German ultimatum. Unlike communism or liberalism, nationalism is not a universal ideology, since it is only designed to "defend the interests of the nation". As Polish and German national interests were competing, the coming to power of a Polish nationalist party even could have been bad news for the Reich.
Then the German ultimatum only asked for the Danzig corridor, not Posnania and the city of Katowice, contrary to what is shown on the map (even if it looks better).
Finally, this scenario completely forgets the fact that Hitler and the Nazis hated the Poles more than anything (even more than the French!), I don't see them respecting their agreement with Poland.
This scenario also forgets the Lebensraum project, which, if it had been implemented, would have made all of Eastern Europe a German colony. Even if Poland would have been a puppet state of the Germans, I don't see the point for Hitler in keeping a strong Polish state when he could just invade it to carry out his project.
Then there are two things that are a little undecided:
-Would the USSR have fallen so quickly, since even if the Red Army of 1940 still suffered from the great purges, the German army of 1940 remained relatively weak (the Germans, contrary to legend, suffered a lot of losses during the Battle of France at the same period, so not sure that they will be able to defeat the USSR so easily).
-Would the encirclement of Dunkirk have taken place? The war between France and Germany would, in this scenario, not have taken place in 1940 but in 1943, 3 years later. In 3 years, the French army would have been much more efficient and powerful (in our reality, French generals estimated that the French army would have been fully capable of waging a war against Germany from 1941).
What's more, perhaps in 3 years, the French generals would have realized that a forest is not capable of stopping an armored army, and therefore, would have better fortified the Ardennes, but that remains a hypothesis .
Otherwise, congratulations again for the quality of the videos which is improving.
Actually you are wrong on nazis hating poles, at least up to the 5th of may 1939 being the date of official refusal of german ultimatum, prior to that moment hitler actually worked on improving attricious german-polish relations of 20s, non-aggresion treaty of 1934 and several smaller economic treaties like railway transit treaty through polish corridor to east prussia. In 1938 began neggotiations to concede the Gdańsk claim to Germany what latter became the ultimatum to war, main neggotiated demands were ceding claim to Gdańsk claim by poland allowing Germany to end LN controled Free City Of Danzig and annexing the city while poland would retain acces to gdańsk port (with by 1939 it didnt really use anymore since construction of Gdynia seaport) keep polish post and storage facilities in city. Allowance to construct extraterritorial highway, expand the railways and cease transit controls in exchange of german payments for its existance while upkeep of the project would lay on germany. Polish severing the Polish - Soviet treaty of 1931 and ascension to Anti-comitern Pact in addition germany proposed elongation 1934 treaty to 15 years instead of previous 10 and as part of neggotiations agreed to recognise polish annexation of Zaolzie. Even after polish campaign hitler ordered to deploy watchmen over the tomb of unknown soldier in warsaw and piłsudski tomb
I admit there are many flaws in this scenario, which is my bad 100%. I need a team who will help me make better and more historically accurate videos, which is why I would suggest that you message me on discord or email me if you're interested in reviewing my scripts before I upload them. I will gladly pay you for that
My guy started rewriting history at the point of giving context.
I do think the Maginot line would have been completed by 1943/44 and it would be more like WWI style conflict in the western front.
I also predict something similar in the video, with the Germans stalling and it becoming trench warfare
@@rewriting-history if Germany didn't invade the lowlands just yet, why would the french expand their Magino forward? Not like they're scared of the Belgians
@@einmensch-nt9sithey planned to expand it irl because of what Germany did in 1914
@@Juan-qu4oj is it so? Huh, interesting
The allies pushed through the Atlantic wall and the Siegfried line in day's I don't think the magino line would have held up either sure some parts would have almost for years potentially, but due to the nature of the defence's facing one direction once past they would be useless and over run.
I loved the scenario, now I'm gonna have to recreate it in HOI4. Also you earned a sub!
Appreciate that you subscribed! I hope you have a fun game, I'm glad I inspired it!
Neither Nazi Germany nor USSR would ally Poland in 1930s. One saw them as "under"people, another as ideological opponents. Plus Germany and Poland had irl agreements before overtaking Czechoslovakia, didn't work out.
I'm aware that the poles were considered sub-human because they wee Slavic, but let's not forget that Germany also allied with Bulgaria, Slovakia, and Croatia
@@rewriting-historyGermany's first plans onto destroying Poland were in 1937 when Polish goverment allied with Britain and France. If that wouldnt happend and instead of GB and France Polish gov would decide to ally with Nazi, then demands from 1939 would be looking different. Still corridor would be given to germans but maybe ethnically Polish cities like Poznan maybe would be remain in Polish land.
Ill add that ally betwen Poland and Germany must happend before 1937. After that year, relactions betwen these two countries were unfixable. Even with close ideology. Probably at that last point in 1939 if Poland would agree to territoriar demands, nothing would happend betwen these two. Maybe later they would take more land due to instability and weak of what remain from Poland
A very interesting and unique scenario keep up the great work
Glad you think so! Really appreciate it! Will keep it up, I have some really interesting scenarios coming up
bro I love how HOI4 map colors(so like, france blue, UK reddish pink, italy green, poland pink, etc) have just became the universal map colors in a lot of places, or did these colors originate from somewhere else??
I'm halfway through the movie when I'm writing this comment, so what I'm writing may be in a later part of the movie and if so, this comment may be nonsensical, but oh well, and this comment may sound a bit "offensive". Starting historically, after Germany declared war on Poland, which started World War 2, Great Britain and France also declared war on Germany, BUT they didn't actually do ANYTHING, they didn't send troops, they didn't provide financial support [although maybe they did, but they wouldn't have done it at all [helped] and actually breaking the alliance with Poland. And now let's take a look at the tactics of the 'Allies': Poland was to wait for the support of the 'Allies' and if necessary, retreat towards Romania, and when the Germans divided their armies to fight France and Great Britain, they would slowly push forward [Poland]. Well, the tactics didn't work because the rest of the 'Allies' didn't support Poland, and the USSR unexpectedly joined the war. Oh, and since I mentioned the USSR, I often hear that at the end of the war they joined the 'Allies' or something similar, but the USSR NEVER joined the 'Allies', and anyway, theoretically, the USSR declared war on the 'Allies' because they invaded Poland! In fact, the USSR had an alliance with Germany through the Ribbentrow-Molotov Pact. The USSR "saved" Europe from Germany only because Germany attacked them [breaking the pact]. I get angry when I hear that the USSR saved Eastern Europe, maybe Western Europe, but it only brought fear and poverty to Eastern Europe. One of the reasons why Western Europe is richer and more densely populated than Eastern Europe is that the WHOLE Eastern Europe was under the rule of the USSR and there was communism everywhere, all the factories of these countries did not work for their countries, no, they worked for the USSR, everywhere there was poverty, and the people they tried to escape to the West. I have a little more to say, but I don't want to do a whole lecture.
What if Germany Gave up Lusatia, Polabia and former Wielets, Obodrites, Lutics duchies back to Poland and Czechia. This is main question. Lechites were living up to Utrecht, founded by Wilti, most west wends tribe.
2:50
You can't just look at land from a purely geographical size-based perspective.
The lands the Soviets desired were primarily rural, populated by peasants, many of which were dissatisfied by the Polish regime at the time.
The lands the Germans wanted included Poland's only sea access, and thus the easiest means for them to reach global markets, Danzig, which was an incredibly valuable port city, as well as Poznan, one of the more industrialized and economically valuable parts of Poland.
That being said, I still feel like if the Poles had caved to one of the hostile powers surrounding them, it would have been more likely the Germans than the Soviets.
I just found your channel I subscribed
Glad you did! Welcome abroad!
It wasn't solely about Gdansk(Danzig) but also Germany wanted that Poland join anti-Comintern alliance which would be see by Allies and especially Soviet Union as hostile act and would mean that fate of Poland is tied and decided(if Axis win) by Nazi Germany which preach anti-Slav ideology. In 1939 it was already cristal clear that Nazis don't respect any arrangement. So entering such alliance would mean death(if Nazis win) or crumble(if Allies win) of Poland. At the end Poland chose wisely.
I think that the soviets would be more worried of nazis so Axis wouldnt just gain land that fast.
"Wilhlem III becoming president is impossible!" "You're wrong!" No! This isn't 100% double precent realistickck!
why the hell is greater poland region included in the danzig corridor bruh
Nice video
Thank you very much! Really appreciate it!
Please do *What if Yugoslavia remained with the Axis?*
If the communist coup never occurred, what would that have done for the Nazis?
*WEE WOO WEE WOO*
UNDERRATED CHANNEL ALERT
*WEE WOO WEEE WOO*
I SHALL SUBSCRIBE
Appreciate it very much, my friend! I'm very thankful for that!
Just one thing, Japan would never allow Germany to simply annex the entire Soviet Union without grabbing as much land as possible at the last minute while the Soviets concentration was on the western front. There was already a movement that did want to have peace with nationalist China and go to war with the Soviets. That movement would have gained a lot of traction back condemning Tojo as an incompetent prime minister with delusions. Tojo was asked to move out of China in 1940-1941 but ultimately decided to double down, but if the Allies weren’t in a war with Germany there’s no way he could have still insisted on his plans. A lot of the imperial navy if not most staff officers including admiral Yamamoto were highly against any moves against the US, adding it all together Tojo and the Army Generals still insisting on a war with nationalist China and the US would be in a bad position. If you think logically Japan only needs to repeat what it did in ww1 and the Russo-Japanese war and they’d get out of the war as winners no matter what.
The only act of appeasement before ww2 is the Munich conference, the rest were cases of treaty revisionism which was the course of action even before the Nazis as can been seen in the treaty of Locarno and in 1932 where the stipulations of Versailles were removed completely or reduced for the sake of Germany
There was an actual concept from the german to "trade" Danzig and the corridor wich was not realised since the britischen who were supposed to Keeper Peace didnt give it since they feared that poland actually accept it
the problem with this is even if the polish goverment would be german aligned i dont think the germas would just let pole "subhumans" rule such a wast space of territory and also what you said on britian wanting to "move germanys interests east" is dumb as theres noway they would just let germany have such control over the whole continent,the reason britian went to war wasn't to actually defend poland (because they clearly did nothing) but to stop germany's expansion in europe.
I get your point, but Germany considered Slavs subhumans too, yet they allied with Slovakia, Bulgaria, and created a puppet government of Croatia. I understand your point, but I don't think that the Germans would prioritize their ideology right away
@@rewriting-history thats true but neither of them gained a lot of land and even what they got wasnt land that was in interest of H. I think they COULD have colaborated but only under german "protection" so they wouldnt gain any land which would ofc upset the poles but with a weakend millitary from the civil war what are they gonna do? And on the note of winning againt the soviets its a reallly big maybe, germany would be barelly motorized even less then in 41, the german economy wouldnt have poland(not incase it was a protectorate) france the benelux norway and the balkans to suck their economy from, which would greatly impact it, with the added bonus of no garrison. Imo germany wouldnt give poland lithuania because it would block germany from bordering russia and if they were a protectorate like bohemia i dont think they would gain any land which might upset the poles but they really couldnt do much they already lost their independence in the civil war. Your video was great but im curious whats your opinion on my take.
I mean slovaks and many were german allies. I think it could work out for many years
that was funny when he said "Britain and france defended Poland"
saarland wasnt really appeasement though was it? it was legal and was part of the treaty? if they didnt they would be breaking the treaty of versais (sorry for bad spelling)
*insert polish ultra nationalist comment explaining how Poland wold never cooperate whit Germany and this is so unrealistic*
+1
Polish ultra nationalist are German fanboys actually, often denying the holocaust and seeing socialism as the worst ideology of humanity and fascism as completely okay.
12:28 ok but how slowed would the making of the nuclear bomb be if they dont have german engineers unless they kidnap them
Never censored History
7:26 the Soviet Union wouldn't have signed the Molotov-Rippentrop Pact, so taking Bessarbabia, Northern Bukovina, and lands from Finland would not have been as likely. And in our timeline, the plan was for Germany to invade the Soviet Union after Poland was taken. Britain and France going to war against Germany for invading Poland had delayed this. So would it not make sense for Germany to try to obtain a military alliance from the Poles and then to invade Russia?
8:10 Romania was granted Transnistria, which was much larger than it is now.
This scenario is pretty realistic, only thing i doubt, is that Poland would ally themselves with Germans as they invade Allies, it's realistic to believe that both Poland wishing to regain lost lands, and Hungary, hoping to gain control over Slovakia, could betray Germans, they would be aware of this, and therefore try to avoid opening any new fronts, when in meantime, there would also be a dispute over who will control Latvia and Estonia, as both Poles and Germans had ambitions there, Poland was a strong force in 1939, even with problem of stability of the new state. Poles could still hope to be fourth strongest force in Europe.
Hungarians? Really?
Make what if the Polish sided with the Soviets to not get partisions again for the Forth time
Just made a video where they side with the USSR, check it out here - czcams.com/video/I3SOtRsv9AA/video.htmlsi=aG4Ki92KsW1_JrX1
when you learn history from hoi4
They would have invaded Poland anyway. The only difference is probably the lack of Soviet intervention and the fact that the invasion would be quicker.
I would agree here, now looking back at it, Poland would become the second Czechoslovakia
What if Poland kept it's access to the sea, but gave up only it's claims ONLY to the Free City of Danzig / Gdansk area, but was allowed to keep (most) of the pre-existing Polish corridor in return?
Germany could bargain other areas to Poland in return: Masuria / southern (Protestant-Polish inhabited) East Prussia, Upper Silesia, border adjustments (trading Polish areas for German areas) in the Posen / Poznan & West Prussia areas (I'm thinking about the Konitz / Chojnice area, the Bromberg / Bydgoszcz & Thorn / Torun area, or some other small areas in former western / northwestern Posen / Poznan province.
Yes, there were some small, tiny areas of Poles left on the German side of the post WW1 border, as well as in the far southwestern area of the Free City of Danzig / Gdansk according to the various ethnic / linguistic maps I've seen online over the years.
What you have described is a better idea than mine and I like it more. The thing is that I wouldn't make such a similar video so soon, so I would save this and come back to it later in the future
what if a communist belugia (bavaria, the Sudetenland and baden-württemberg) got indenpendent during the second world war?
I don’t think the allies would fight Germany maybe even help the Finnish and other countries since they hated the Soviets as they saw them as unreasonable and they thought that Germany might not start a war if they got their reasonable claims or at least a war with the west
This time line German appeasement is already shown to be worthless by the Munich conference and its consequences Allie’s would aid soviets since a Germany with free reign into the Soviet Union would only worsen the situation for the Allie’s in Europe making Germany far stronger than they would want
The magiont line actually for.once works.
It was worth the investment for sure!
12:27 FINALY someone mentions it
I have heared many people say this before, I just started refering to it like this
I ain't sure about it. The nuclear program was a thing and financed even at the very end of the Reich. I am talking right now about the battle of Berlin. Also who knows if they didn't invent the bomb first if Norwegian commandoes didn't help
What if romania typed in the console annex sov instead of ceding bessarabia?
Lol I should make that into a youtube short, this is funny
True
Biggest problem for me is that Germany would at the end of the day still want to make the east into a colony for expansion including polish land so at best basically Poland would be turned into a rump state under Germany either before or after war with soviets. But yeah wouldn’t have to fight Allie’s until Germany possibly decides to change borders with Belgium or Netherlands. Also Soviet Union actively pursuing the war changes a lot since while Germans would still make head way into Soviet’s like irl it wouldn’t be as massive since there wouldn’t be a total breakdown of command where Stalin in disbelief of Germany declaring war locks himself away for a week. Russia still has so much land to give as well so likely Germans would get bogged down and before they reach Stalin grad but eventually will then it’s a matter of if German industry can withstand the attrition and how much better soviets fared or not in the initial invasion
You can just tell that my brother here is Bulgarian.
I am 100% Bulgarian, yes!
Wow I’ve never seen a map where Andorra is on the map. American 22 yr old btw.
First, the idea that the Poles would have to hand over so much land so that Germany would return to its pre-1918 imperial borders in the east is really stupid. The german ultimatum was that 1. Poland would renounce its claim on the Free City Of Danzig, and 2. Germany would be allowed to build an extraerritorial highway from Pommern to Königsberg. There were no demands that Poland has to give up basically its access to sea, as well as the ethnically Polish regions of Greater Poland and Katowice (the latter being the most industrialized region in the whole Poland at the time). Germany kinda understood the Polish need of an access to the sea, so they did not demand an entire Polish coastline or smth.
Second, if Poland somehow accepted the German ultimatum, I have no doubt that Poland would be backstabbed as soon as the situation is right. If we would want to create a scenario where Poles and Germans live in peace, we would have to go back to 1935, when died Marshall Józef Piłsudski (one of the creators of Polish independence in 1918), and change how his colleagues from Sanacja party run the country after his death. Piłsudski due to his attitude of no compromise to the Germans was admired by the Nazis. There was even a non-agression pact signed and all in all relations between both countries were good. Polish government after Piłsudski died kinda fucked up and through their politics of reluctance towards Germany, the relations worsened again.
In 1939, Germany's attitude was so anti-Polish that it was too late for any kind of a lasting agreement.
I have only one problem with this scenario. The thing is, Poland saw what happened to Czechoslovakia, they gave territory for peace but were betrayed. Would Poland really believe Germany that they wouldn’t be attacked after giving up valuable territory? On top of that, Poland would be more willing to give the East to the soviets than the west to the Germans. Most of that 12 million people in the east was Belorussians, or Ukrainians. On top of that, Poland would likely believe that if they gave territory to Russia, they would still survive. The same cannot be said for giving territory to Germany. Apart from that though this scenario is really cool
Bro has a coin for every single year
I think someone wrote a fiction novel about Poland joining the Axis
Oh man...
Two things first. Why would a nationalist government give up ethnically and historically Polish Greater Poland? It was not part of the corridor. I can understand them giving up Pomerania and letting Germans take over FC of Danzig. Next - Silesia. Polish part of Silesia was the most industrialized region of the whole country, it basically fueled all big projects in Poland. It was also ethnically Polish territory (proven in plebiscyte and 3 uprisings). Once again, a good-of-the-nation driven nationalist Poland would NEVER give up Greater Poland or Silesia, especially knowing of German "ethical problems". Another thing, quite unrealistic imo, is German-Soviet war. Why would Stalin risk taking his whole country, rescently put through purges and conflict with the Fins, to war against much stronger opponents over Lithuania? I get that they wouldn't be too happy about renewed PLC (whic is also quite an absurd), but I'd rather have them build up their defences and move industry over the Ural quicker. What would the Germans do with USSR defeated and a large but weaker Polish state between them and free real estate potential colonization land in Russia? Why would they let "subhumans" have their own administration? Their usefulness expired, their time has come. German backstab is pretty possible. Sorry, but I can't stand such Hearts of Iron 4 style scenario of "Poland is such a fool they didn't side with the Germans, they would've crushed them completely (lost couple milions of Poles and gained milions of Ukrainians, Belyorussians and Lithuanians 'unhappy' about not being independent too!)". Pretty nice map tough ;)
I agree with you that this scenario is not perfect, in that case, I would offer you to help me with my scripts, so they are more realistic. Message me on discord or email me if you're interested, I will pay you to correct my mistakes. I missed a lot of important details and want to get better.
Wouldn't i just end in the same way as it did for the Czechoslovakians? (Not that they were invited to the meeting where they would choose a solution for the ''dilemma'' they were in)
I agree, now looking back at it, it could end just like Czechoslovakia
There are 5 facts from history:
Poland had the 4th largest war contribution in Europe against the Axis, France was 5th, even when France was one of the largest armed forces in the world
The Polish Army prepared for war with the Soviets for much of the interwar period, especially means of transport in the eastern steppes
The Polish Army in full mobilization would be larger than all of Germany's allies on the eastern front combined
The Holocaust would never have happened in Poland (in the scenario in which the Axis won), and no genocide occurred in the countries that were loyal.
The western border of the Soviet Union was historically Polish territory, with many Poles still present, and this would have helped establish control and minimize resistance.
What if the British french American Portuguese Spanish colonial empires collapsed after workd war 1
Or what if the British french colonial Empires collapsed after the war
There is known quote from Hitler regarding potential polish expansion in the east. He said, that there is no way he would allow that to happen.
Day something of suggesting you to make a video on what if the Jewish rebellion at Masada against the Roman’s succeeded
Im definitely waiting for the video about potential soviet alliance
It's already out, check it out here - czcams.com/video/I3SOtRsv9AA/video.htmlsi=mNSJ-sSnOBhbk7b-
2:36 finaly someone with the same borders i do poland as in HOI4
poland wasnt defended by france and britian they just standed and watched from afar
This is right, but they declared war on the Germans
What if the great Greek plan( Catherine the Great's of Russia plan to restore the Byzantine Empire) succeeded
Brooo no way I'm already writing the script for that video! You should see in in 2 weeks I think, so stick around!
Yes, I didn't call it a world war for a reason.
Istanbul would be called Tsargrad
Imagine if they made a HOI4 Mod about this Scenario!
Cold video
Really appreciate it, my best one so far!
Even if poland accepted irl germany would just make another demand or excuse to declare war. Just look at Czechoslovakia
a video where poland sides with the soviets would be cool. maybe some sort of belarusian and ukrainian futures change
I just made that video, check it out here - czcams.com/video/I3SOtRsv9AA/video.htmlsi=aG4Ki92KsW1_JrX1
Rewriting History: What if Poland Gave up Danzig to Germany?
AfD: Well... Let's check it out
Somebody finally discussing it
Hope you liked the video, as well as my take on it!
No f@cknig way that germany could defeat the soviet union that easily
I don't care how much you'd like to convince yourself otherwise, but we will never know what would have happened if the Polish (who were happy to gobble up the Czechs) weren't so pig-headed and stubborn. It is perfectly plausible for German demands for German reunification to have been permanently, conclusively, and *peacefully* sorted right there and then forever. But our masters in the Empire wanted blood and they wanted war. And any excuse to get there.
I say, the Germans would give the Poles Lithuania in exchange first Danzig region. So the Poles can still have sea access
i dont see why the allies should support the soviets
much more likely they would stay neutral and hope that germany wins
This is because the USSR would collapse in a year if they're not supported. The allies need a weaker Germany, so they want Germany to bleed on the eastern front
Why would the Allies Want Germany to Win? That would make them to strong So it makes sense for The Allies to Send supplies to the ussr so they can Put the Germans in a stalemate
In Dec. 38 or Jan 39 Berlin offered Warsaw an alliance against the Soviets. The same deal Slovakia and Romania took. Poland chose not to since such an alliance would make the land the same as a German colony.