Is Playing Rugby A Form Of Child Abuse? Simon Jordan, Ugo Monye & Eric Anderson Debate 🏉 | talkSPORT
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- čas přidán 12. 02. 2024
- Simon Jordan, former rugby union player Ugo Monye and Eric Anderson, Professor of Sport, Health and Social Sciences at The University of Winchester debate if rugby should be banned at school level.
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This guy listens to Simon when he speaks then pipes up when ugo says a word
Ugo wasn’t qualified for that conversation
As ugo is talking shitte😂 whereas Simon agreed with lot of Erics points made.
One talks dribble, the other does not.
Because Simon is rational and talks sense, whereas Ugo is irrational and talks nonsense. That's the difference.
Ugo was clueless that’s why
Eric Anderson wrote a chapter in a book describing team sport as transphobic. This guy is hardly an objective observer.
Exactly he’s clearly got an agenda against sport for whatever reason and is doing everything he can to destroy it, what a sad little life he must live
@@Danimal13 Tbf some of what he says is sensible, but then there's better researchers who can make the point more intelligently. All Eric Anderson has done is collate particular studies to push a particular point. He has no background in sports science, neuroscience or physiology.
@@chrisshaw3939 a broken clock is right twice a day 😂 exactly he’s cherry picked things that suit his agenda and then refuses to acknowledge anything that suggests he’s wrong and he’s very condescending and hypocritical which doesn’t help him at all, like when Ugo makes a point he cuts him off then when Ugo cuts him off he throws a tantrum 😂 just a very unlikable guy who clearly has an agenda against sports as a whole
So hes got one opinion we disagree with so we have to disagree with everything he says. What an ignorant, foolish way of looking at the world. Churchill had some questionable opinions about certain ethnicities but on the whole he was an absolute hero of this country.
@@user-tm5zb5yf8c Calm down buddy. I've already said that some of his recommendations are sensible. However, it's not unfair to question his motivations when he makes hyperbolic arguments.
Wow, telling Ugo to ‘calm’ and ‘let me speak’, what an arrogant piece of work Eric Anderson is!! 😡😡
I can’t believe talkSPORT pundits are having an intense debate on whether curry should or should not be served in school canteens.
I didn’t post a comment because yours said what i wanted to say 😂
@@samprizeman4509😅
🤣
Rugby was so much fun growing up, tag rugby in primary, contact in secondary, let’s work towards safety not banning things we love
It was good. But it wasn't British Bulldog. Now that was a game.
play it til 14/15, then get out
@@hmq9052i reckon anyone born after the 90s don’t know what that is - great game
I suffered two concussions as a child in the 90's one from playing Rugby. I got tackled into a tool shed whilst we were playing in the garden and hit my head against the corner of the shed. We had no real idea what Rugby was being scandinavians so we just played it as football without fouls meaning anything went from Scratching, head butting, pullintg, pushing, elbowing you name it.
Was it responsbile? no, would I want my own children to play it today no.
@@TantricBioHacker
I’m not sure you can compare that to actually playing a sport properly, under instructions from teachers, without buildings around. But I understand accidents happen
Ban Stairs. People die falling down them. In kids Rugby, and I played at School, the hits are not really that hard. Only real risks are the feet and studs.
That American guy is insufferable omds. Hes not letting anyone speak
This happened the last time they had an American on to talk at people. I lasted at least several seconds before I'd had enough.
They shouldn't have any Americans on, with the exception of say Tim Howard.
Ugo done amazing not to lose his temper with the obnoxious and arrogant professor.
Constantly interrupted him and basically belittled him.
There are ways to have a debate and the professor has just shown he has absolutely no class or idea in how to have one
Lots of professors are like this, they become professors so that people can call them professor.
This guy is not scientific., a true scientist invites challenge, he doesn't.
Agreed - there aren’t many real ones nowadays, they’re too busy peddling agendas
Facts are still facts
Ugo: "I'm not on here to fiddle anyone!" He'd have to be on BBC to do that.
Finally a comment you would actually hear in a rugby club ha ha
I just read this guy also thinks team sports are transphobic, sounds like a shill for the agenda to me
Had a brain surgery at 18 due to rugby - almost killed me. No way would I class it as ‘abuse’. It gives opportunities for great discipline and wealth to be generated for all backgrounds.
Never ever take rugby away. Remove smoking from the community first, does much more harm to children
I think the damage was permanent. I played county rugby from 11 -18 I’d never let my boys near a rugby ball
I wouldn't either. No ways
Fully agree wouldn’t let my son play it
Oh wait is smoking legal for kids now?
wow. very short term thinking
Ah yes, the classic, "give me your data or you're dismissed but go to Google for mine" argument!
Eric Anderson basically wants to ban rugby. Children are being used as pawns in his hearts and minds strategy. His website would suggest that he has an ideological bent against traditional masculinity and masculine pursuits.
Exactly!
I absolutely HATED rugby at school.. HATED IT .. just stood in the freezing cold away from the ball waiting for it to be over
@@dwaynedibley997 I tried to be good at it, basically because I was a young gay boy on the autistic spectrum who at the time didn't want to be gay or on the AS because it was seen as "wrong" or "disgusting" or "weird" and desperately wanted to fit in and be "one of the boys". It didn't work, so when I got the opportunity, I packed it in and played curling instead, far more civilised and enjoyable.
@@dwaynedibley997go and play video games in your Mum's basement then. If you can't enjoy get stuck into a physical and fast ball sport and relish the physical challenge then this aint really a debate which your opinion has any weight in.
@@WillSavage you will find 95% of secondary school kids hate rugby with a passion and would rather play dodgeball indoors then Stand around hiding from the ball in rugby .. absolute disgrace of a sport to be teaching children.. it is abuse
Before America infested this world with the woke culture in 2014/15 we never were this SOFT. How TF is rugby child abuse. Yes don’t go in elbows up and illegal tackles but a little rough play is character building
To defeat wokeness we must embrace Islam. Wokeness comes directly from Christianity
@tevildo45 no it dosnt it comes from liberals
Blame America for all your problems because you can’t think on your own and be independent
@@tevildo45That’s a load of bs if I’ve ever seen it 🤣
@@tevildo45 That is utter nonsense if ever I saw it, it chiefly stems from Marxism with a blend of postmodernism and intersectionality.
Doesn't matter if the bloke is right listening to him is tough. He is passive aggressive and talks down to people.
There is a degree to all sports and rugby has risks obviously but how far do you go in life to eliminate risk and how many people do you exclude from sport that would not have fitted into football etc.
That guys confrontational manner really does him no favours. I played rugby growing up, I wouldn’t have described it as “abuse” but I do concede nowadays that there should be some more forms of safety and understanding at younger ages. But this guy comes across as incredibly sensationalist
The entirety of the Under 9 transition is about technique and safety. I'm involved very heavily and it's the safest it's ever been. He's applying historical data at the professional level to amateur and age groups
@@samdrew1929 I’ll be honest it’s been about thirty years since I’ve played. But yeah I get what you mean about the data. That’s interesting at that age, that’s probably a good age for forming habits and techniques
This academic is the most obnoxious fool ever. He talks over everyone else, then states let me speak without anyone interupting.
Ridiculous
😂😂
That Eric Anderson must have been bullied in his childhood and took it upon himself to change the world. How about you worry about your children and let the other play the game they choose to play?
Maybe he was dropped on the head lol
He started teaching at my uni when I was there. He has an uncanny talent to turn literally everything into either homophobia or transphobia, and too arrogant to listen to anything outside his own sociological views
@@guillaumehammersley2672 it's a shame Uni's have such teachers...should they be the most open minded people in a country?
@@andreidoanca4262 they mostly are, in truth. But you'll occasionally find some professors who have their own agenda and twist their research to support their own narrative
He was clearly not picked for the rugby team
Child abuse? What???
Yep being tackled by a 12yo in your class is no different than getting home and your 45 year old drunk step dad pasting you round the house.
Accidently being injured in a sport with rules and regulations and a ref is the same as being intentionally injured by an adult. Apparently anyway
@@rhyschadwick3269well observed.
Imagine a Brit rocking up in America demanding US ban school football !! 😂
Doesn't really matter if he's a Martian. What he's suggesting has merit in terms of mild traumatic brain injury
@@richardjones8699 missed my point.
@@Bobbibouchersmumwasright That you're being xenophobic?
There are plenty of Americans that try to ban tackle football.
@@richardjones8699he can stop his kids playing rugby if he wants to but he can’t stop everyone else
Ban life! That's what they want to do, i have fallen many times off my bike, playing in the playground as a kid, been hit in the head with a hockey ball, fallen out of trees, you are talking about kids being forced to sit on their backsides for all of their life, diseases from obesity, heart disease is the biggest killer in the world, this guy needs to get a life! Or doesn't he want anyone to have one.
No, he sees something that to him is incredibly dangerous.
Except Rugby is designed by its very nature to be a contact sport. Those examples you gave are called “accidents”
@@frasierfreak92even at that, it is not abusive! Eric comes across as obsessive.
I understand he is passionate about the topic but he is very aggressive, and not willing to hear other peoples opinions or thoughts
Aggressive 😂 he just argued his points well than the other chap who got in a hump. 😂
And ironically would get folded up in any contact sport.
I think you have been folded a few too many times, not sure you know what that word means .
he has no respect or regard for anyone else's opinions. He believes he is THE authority and he knows best.
@@abcxyz2927Never threw a rugby ball either.
Proof it’s possible to be right and extremely unlikeable at the same time
He’s not even right, just straight up ignorant and obnoxious
He's not right, his argument is consequentialist nonsense, easily illustrated by asking him the following: "If I were to punch you and you were to punch me back - what would the difference between the punches be?"
You could apply the "child abuse synopsis" to the child traveling to school, on the point I would bet my mortgage on that more children have died on route to school than have died on a school rugby park. With that in mind his child abuse argument if applied fully would mean children shouldn't go to school.
The word "consequentialist" is nonsense....@@SacClass650
@@dannytheh3rocycling is encouraged to kids from a young age and there was nearly 100 cyclist deaths on the road last year
Ugo is so right about youngsters learning the full technique of tackling but this guy doesnt want to hear it
he misses the point. Ugo says it's safer to learn it young than older. The point is: it's far safer not to learn at all!
@GH-pt3eg bit that's like saying it's safer to never drive a car as then you won't have a car accident
@@garywoollett189 sort of, but the risks are far less frequent in a car than stepping out onto a rugby pitch. I've played and coached rugby and seen bad injuries (it's not just head trauma. People wreck their bodies permanently)
@@garywoollett189 Seatbelts, ABS, speed limits, International build standards, training, etc etc. Its a non valid argument. whilst the guys is at the extreme end of the argument, hes not wrong that rugby and other contact sports cause long term ilness to brain and body. Controls can be put in place though and ultimately you play understanding the risks, especially nowadays. Concussion stand down times have been in place in rugby for years but I as most people have, seen these 'rules' ignored and players back in the following week or contact training on tuesday after a few beers. I'm torn on the kids and rugny thing. I think kids who are forced to play in school are more at risk than the ones who do want to play!
I absolutely HATED rugby at school.. HATED IT .. just stood in the freezing cold away from the ball waiting for it to be over
I am very familiar with Eric Andersons work, he is incredibly anti masculinity(where I imagine his motivation is coming from), his own research is laughable and he ran from debating his research with me on social media when I was pointing out clear methodological flaws. In this instance I have not looked at any of these studies but just on the face of it his first argument to equate this with child abuse is ridiculous, there is a difference between intentionally trying to injure a child and an acceptable amount of risk. By this logic letting your child do anything with a risk of injury is child abuse, from crossing roads to playing on any hard surface.
I can absolutely believe that high velocity brain injuries are more common in running, skipping or gymnastics because the amount of force that can be generated by children running is not going to exceed what can be created by movement + gravity and rugby is played on a softer surface. I knocked teeth out as a child doing running in P.E but I played a ton of rugby and never saw a single child sustaining head injuries.
By this logic we would have to ban hockey, football, cricket, gymnastics, skipping/running on hard surfaces and a multitude of other activities with a risk factor. This is helicopter parenting to the highest degree.
So because you didn’t see something happen then it’s not an issue and because you had teeth knocked out then running is more dangerous than rugby. Are you sure you weren’t concussed playing rugby? Because that’s the sort of drivel I’d expect from a heavily concussed person
@@tevildo45 So because I used one anecdote that was not central to my point it invalidates the rest of what I said? Hilarious you are insulting my intelligence when that is your response.
Hi Guy, I'm one of the authors of the paper with Professor Anderson. Did you know that even England Rugby term this harm 'child abuse' in their own Safeguarding Policy? There is a big difference between what is a risk of happening, and the brain trauma that will definitely happen due to the sport structured nature of brain trauma in rugby and boxing. Difference between accident and by design.
@@GaryTurnerSmiler Hi Gary, if I accept you are quoting England Rugby in good faith it is irrelevant to the truth of the overall claim, it is just an appeal to authority and not even from an actual medical authority.
Your second claim is not remotely true, it is akin to saying letting children go outside will definitely result in deaths, abductions, injuries etc so it is child abuse. There is a line somewhere between freedom and safety, what results in the best outcomes for children and society and the best way to collate that data to figure it out. Going 1% over the freedom safety line or the "ideal" is not child abuse.
The fact that you are using such fallacious reasoning, the fact that Mr Anderson just cites whatever studies support his conclusion, gets mad at the mere suggestion there could be research that disagrees, and has a total lack of granularity in looking different methodology and outcomes is a scathing indictment of the state of academia.
I am convinced you will not take a single thing I said on board, strawman, quote mine or ignore my response entirely but I would be delighted to be wrong.
@@guyjackson1261 Seems clear that this Professor is like a lot of other academics and making grandiose emotionally exploitative statements in order to make a name for themselves. Others have pointed out that a lot of his work has a slant of anti-masculinity and even wrote a chapter outlining how sport can lead to transphobia. There's an underlying agenda at play here, and sadly I fear that safety of children isn't the main concern.....
Carry on exposing these frauds for what they are.
Am totally fed up with all these self righteous do gooders.
Life is full of risk and all sports involve risk of injury including to the head.
It is up to parents and children to decide if the benefits of playing a particular sport outweigh the risks.
To assert Rugby is a form of child abuse is more about Anderson seeking headlines than anything else.
Frankly he and his ilk nauseate me
Then you are being blind to the reality. He's talking about children - who have no idea of the facts so just turn up and play if Dad wants them to, then they enjoy it and carry on. They have no idea of the risks involved and while this Yank is very annoying in how he talks, what he is saying is perfectly valid. The kids cannot make an informed choice can they, then they have Alpha Dads like you telling them 'don't be a pussy, get stuck in, it's only a bump, get on with it etc. I've coached kids rugby and have seen this first hand on multiple occasions.
My post made it clear that parents and children should know the risks and make an informed choice. Trouble with kids today is that generally speaking they are overprotected...not under-protected by their parents and scaremongering of this kind doesn't help. I'd be interested to learn if his research is peer reviewed. I suspect not. @@davidbrittain3212
This is a perfect example of an academic having his first and only moment in the spotlight, and going on an unhinged rant without context. Sensationalist nonsense. Rugby at youth level is modified to mitigate harm, like many sports. Young people are willing participants, if there is a death, it’s probably a statistical anomaly. But academics are gunna academic….
Why do you hate academics?
PE at school is compulsory. You dont get a choice to sit out and at that age you cant really make an informed choice either. Parents often choose what their children do too.
@@environm3ntalist549I finished school twenty years ago. There was no tackle in rugby in PE. Tackle only applied if you represented the school playing in the rugby team.
@@paulturner9542 I finished school 23 years ago and there was definitely tackling in PE
@@paulturner9542 I finished school 48 years ago, and we tackled in rugby in PE for 7 years. I'm doing OK 48 years later.
What did Ruby do? Poor girl
you wouldnt say that if you knew her. shes ruined everything!
I liked the Kaiser Chiefs song
One thing I have learnt in life is that when somebody continually interrupts another person from speaking is that they have a very arrogant "I'm right and you're wrong" attitude to anything. Eric Anderson asked Ugo Monye a question and almost as soon as he began to answer he interrupted him. He simply didn't want his research to be contradicted, the question is is he really that convinced about his research or is he closed to whatever might contradict him.
I remember a few years ago a documentary with I believe Garth Thomas, where he went to New Zealand to try and find out why the Kiwi's were able to produce such a constant stream of great players. One of the things covered in that documentary was that young players in New Zealand didn't have tackling because they were focussed more on ball handling skills, tacking didn't begin until puberty had kicked in. So maybe the Kiwi's have something that could be introduced. But at the end of the day you have to learn how to tackle and if you don't do that until somebody is 18 then I would almost guarantee that you would see an increase of serious injuries because grown men would be making mistakes and causing serious injury.
There are risks with many sports; do you ban diving because children will make mistakes and their heads hit the water first? same with swimming. Do you ban gymnastics because centrifugal force happens when you are swinging in the air and as we have seen many times when scientists show us what happens in car accidents the brain moves around in the skull? running because of the jarring on the spine which moves to the head and ultimately the brain?
From the way the professor rants on he does not appear to compared his research into rugby and boxing with other sports and seemed very offended when other research was pointed to him and wanted to right it off because it just might contradict him. How can he say one sport is bad unless he is doing comparisons with a multitude of other sports that is very poor scientific research that seems more like research to prove I have a belief that I want to be true.
He wasn’t actually answering the question tho he was waffling about a study he didn’t know the name of , he tried to say running is riskier than rugby we know this is absolute nonsense
@@tevildo45 he was saying he had to study that he would forward on to him so he did know the study but didn't have the details with him.
So constant jarring of the knees does not cause damage? The constant thrusting of the spine into the brain stem is not a danger? Why do you think they invented cushioned training shoes? Without knowing and reading the other research you and the professor can't simply right it off because you don't know all the information. Yes from an observation you may say one is more dangerous than the other but often in science what is observable does not always stand up when further analysis is done.
Now one of the problems with the professor is that he is a sociologist and sexologist. That is where his training is. Now from what I can find out he has zero training in physiology or neuroscience and is therefore making observations on what he believes is happening. Maybe if they had included a neuroscientist in the discussion (which maybe where Monye was citing).
As Monye is the Chair of Independent Group on Diversity and I wonder if the professor finds difficulty with that considering many of his other works and that is why he is so antagonistic towards him.
@stephenhodgson3506 Why wouldn’t you know the name of the study when you’re debating the guy on the topic, very weak sauce. Are honestly telling me that running carries a greater risk of brain injury than rugby, are you actually telling me that
@@tevildo45 Maybe because after securing the professor they then looked around for somebody to debate with him and didn't fill him in on what was actually going to happen or discussed. You know like a lot of these Podcasts often do.
@@tevildo45well running does take a toll on joints.
Ban Ruby? What has she ever done to anyone?!😅
Taken her love to town 😉
She's an abuser 🤣
You wouldn't want to know mate
I know right the “gentleman’s game”.
Eric is probably right but the way he delivers his argument and tries to monopolize the discourse only serves to undermine his message i'm afraid.
Exactly what I said 3 mins after you👏👏👏
The guy turned me right off - he may have the Ethos - credentials and the science but his Pathos - style of communication weakened it and ruined his logos - the logic and persuasion of his argument.
yeah. But he is right though. Why do you need the truth to be sugarcoated?
@@truereason2784 It's not about sugarcoating, it's about demonstrating your credentials through reason and rational discussion, exposing your point to inspection and peer review. When you try to force through arguments with intellectual dishonesty, opposing the counter-argument with belligerence and sneering, or making every debated point about irrelevant minutiae of language or pedantic bait-and-switch, you make it increasingly likely that you then appear to be 'faking' yourself and push first opinions away from digging more to, perhaps, confirm and follow your train of logic. It's a horribly self-defeating presentation.
Absolutely agree.
If it ends up being banned from schools and classed as child abuse, I imagine people are gonna try and take legal action against schools for years of child abuse
So they will need to be careful with the language used and the way they classify things
Also the wording used in this section was it's child abuse if you are deliberately trying to hurt someone, whereas that's not the aim of anyone on a rugby pitch, so I think they would need to prove intent if they are going to pursue that further
This is why England will never win a Rugby World Cup again.
THANK YOU!!!!
It’s ridiculous
@@willwud It truly is, contact is all part of the game.
Who cares bruh
weren't winning them anyway because English rugby is so stuck in it's ways. Couldn't even support Woodward when he figured out how to do it
What is this world coming too??
I'm so glad I'm 50 and going towards the end rather than the beginning...things are ridiculous
Well done Ugo, thought you handled the situation very well..👌
thought he came across like an angry man child
@@y0upubesit’s tough to keep calm when the guy who you’re supposed to be debating keeps cutting you off and won’t let you finish a single sentence because he knows Ugo will burry his argument
He came across like an uninformed buffoon
Handled it well? He cited studies that he couldn't name and got basic facts wrong. Totally uninformed.
Yes with no facts and research to back you.... well prepared....
Please, please …England..ban contact rugby at those young ages.
Us South Africans will be continuing our contact rugby 🇿🇦 our school rugby is amazing, played at an extremely high level and probably the point of difference between us and the rest of the world, and probably the main reason why we are able to develop sooooo much depth in our squads.
In addition, every single sport has its risks, even “cross-country running” as mentioned on the show. At my high school, while participating in a cross country event, we were vulnerable to a sudden wildfire (veldfire).
I agree that risk can be mitigated in rugby, but also agree that contact (techniques in contact) should be taught and trained from a younger age.
Whyich is why you lot have won 4 world cups & we only have 1
If ever their was a case study of stupid people have degrees, this professor nails it
Some people embrace things like emotion.
I absolutely hated rugby at school.. still think about it now 25 years later .. absolutely hated it .. stood in the freezing cold away from the ball . Waiting for it to be over
being cold isnt abuse, your just soft @@dwaynedibley997
😂😂😂😂 Good one but extremely true.
@@dwaynedibley997it’s a goofy sport for the uncoordinated
Ugo handled this very well. The reason this angry academic will not get a meeting with RFU is due to his combative and dogmatic manner. Ugo asked him to take some advice to get a meeting with RFU and was shut down
These unions have denied facts for decades. If you come with a "please" and "thank you" they won't entertain you. These are not new ideas and thoughts, so why not try a rude and straightforward approach if none of the others have worked
Luckily for England players the ball is in the air for 79 minutes. The only repetitive injuries are metatarsals.
Hahahahaha brilliant.
and making it to WC semi finals and finals consistently..
😂😂😂😂😂
Boxing saves lives . This man has never been inside a boxing gym his whole entire life
He was probably one of the kids who was bullied in school so likes to ruin every one else's fun
Tell that to Nigel Watson....
Boxing definitely turns peoples lives around in deprived areas
I'm one of the authors of the paper. I know combat sports better than most. Boxing does not save lives. Even the All Party Parliamentary Boxing Group promote NON-CONTACT boxing as providing all the benefits of boxing - the benefits do NOT come from the repetitive head impacts. Boxing is the most injurious sport for brain trauma - head impacts, save them for over 18s.
@@GaryTurnerSmiler 'Boxing does not save lives' - Sure it does; in lots of ways, too. Neither you nor your co-author appear to grasp the concept of a dose-reponse relationship: there is ZERO evidence of long-term neurological sequelae in individuals with a history of (e.g.,) amateur boxing participation. So whatever the quantity (and quality) of trauma the sport entails, it doesn't amount to enough to be of clinical significance on those parameters. The notion that childhood rugby is traumatic enough to cause chronic brain damage is risible - and not supported by long-term epidemiologic studies. This clown actually had the gall to invoke the spectre of death due to acute brain trauma playing rugby; this is disgraceful, alarmist fear-mongering. The denominators matter: death due to brain trauma in youth rugby (as with amateur boxing, ice skating, bicycling, etc.) very nearly never happens. Measures to make it safer still are welcome, but honesty about the essentially-zero risk is proper.
Keep playing full contact rugby in schools! It’s incredible !!!!!!!!!!!!!
See... another case of brain injury from the sport
Worse tackles playing football 😂😂😂
The study Ugo refers to is called the ORCHID study...unfortunately Eric seems to dismiss this as being untrue and biased as it is funded by world rugby etc. Eric then quotes a study by the RFU where they state that there are 4.8 concussions per 1000 hours...so are the RFU/rugby community only biased when they put out a study that you don't agree with?
The ORCHID paper shows that in the men’s community game:
86% of forces measured are the same as or less than those experienced in other forms of exercise such as running, jumping or skipping.
94% of forces are lower than those previously measured on people jumping on a trampoline.
Most events resulting in the highest measured forces are caused by poor technique in the tackle and at the breakdown.
I don’t think I’ve ever hated anyone more. It was near impossible to watch.
What is guy talking about? No one puts a child to a trained fighter in the ring, we put two trained fighters against each other. Sports are competition on the SAME LEVEL. That's why we dont put one that is extremely more advantageous against another.
I played Rugby Union from age 11-16 for school and club and never took one single serious blow to the head in that time, one or two bust lips (usually from a stray arm - I played second row) but nothing else. I would always go into incoming tackles shoulder/upper arm first. In fact, I only ever witnessed one person suffer a concussion in that time and his case was a freak accident.
I experienced the same exact forces (if not more) playing Basketball and Football as there was plenty of contact in both sports - particularly indoor football where a shove off the ball often resulted in hitting the wall of the sports hall and I hardly need to point out that a brick wall hits harder than a school kid.
As far as running forces, I ran much quicker (and ended up more light-headed) running 100m/200m sprints in Athletics since I wasn't carrying a ball and slowing down after crossing a line does the same thing (just more gradual).
I'm not saying Rugby is risk free but most kids at school may play Rugby (or at least do training exercises) in P.E. classes maybe 6-8 weeks (once a week) each year and that is it as all other sports on the syllabus also need to be played during the school year (there are only 39 weeks in a school year after all)... the only ones who play regularly will be those who play for the school team (by choice) or choose to pursue a club team
If you ban Rugby in schools in England you will never have a competitive International outfit in the future.
Take that over my son never walking again at 12
Who cares?
Who cares?
Oh well.
@@markie1990123 do you plan to have a beer with your son when he turns 18? 😂 yes, rugby is a big problem, but alcohol is perfectly safe and fine and doesn’t ruin far more lives… nope. 😂
Rugby teaches teamwork, respect and discipline among many other things.
if you tackle properly theres no head damage. maybe they could add headguards but when i did rugby at school 20 years ago none of the boys disliked it or had severe head imjuries I had more head clashes in football so does that mean thats more damaging
Not talking about head-to-head, they were discussing head acceleration and deceleration - that happens when momentum is rapidly stopped.
rugby should be mandatory....
toughen up the little snowflakes....
I was up chimneys when i were a lad....
Chimneys? I wish I had it so good, it was the dungeons for me
You don’t have to hunt down animals in modern society. Why do you have to be tough?
@@thierryhenry674 I hunted animals on all fours and ate them raw with my bare hands when I was a kid.
I was down the mines.
Mate you cry when McDonald's screws up your order and you call kids snowflakes 😂.
Ugo speaks so well. The academic guy is appalling in how he debates and presents himself. Like a school child.
I had to play rugby at school in the 1960s. I never had any injuries and even made the under-11s! But playing in mid winter on our playing fields in thin shorts and shirt with a gale blowing, driving rain and about 2C was a form of torture for sure and we all felt that. It didn't build up my character only the days off I had with flu! I wouldn't ban rugby but make sure that children are kept safe by limits on tackling according to age groups. I guess it could also be a voluntary activity and not compulsory for all students as it was at my school.
Eric Anderson and his academics need their hard drives checked.
Paul turner needs his checked.
An American telling Brits that Rugby is dangerous........ we know it's dangerous that is why we play it...... why does the media do it again and again, getting involved and noising off..... in rugby the Juniors and Mini's do not get into contact until they are 9/10 years of age and the management of the game is at an all time high when it comes to player safety, both my son and daughter played good level rugby and did so from the age of 6, and if you asked them would bothl say some of the best times of their lives....... rugby is the the best...and you can see the cotton wool society is truly among us!!!
Do you think a 9/10 year old can make an informed decision as to the potential long-term risks?
I played rugby at school, and we played touch rugby until everybody understood and proved they could tackle properly before tackle rugby was introduced. Eric Anderson should outlaw American football and leave rugby alone. With all the protections in American football tackling is not as controlled as rugby
I'm with the professor. I can't believe that 75% of UK schools still force children to play rugby as part of their PE curriculum, and that Ugo supports this. I was a weedy little kid at school, and I didn't appreciate being shunted around & jumped all over by gay/bi-curious thugs under the pretence of "sport". If kids want to play rugby outside of the school PE curriculum that's fine. But if they are forced to play it then it is child abuse.
Is changing their Gender before they even understand what’s going on not child abuse?
Absolutely
What’s that got to do with anything, if someone asks you the time do you start foaming at the mouth about injury
@@tevildo45 wtf are you on about?
What's that got to do with this Rugby argument?
It's like me asking you if you like Honda cars, and you respond with "Yeah Nissans are great cars."
Cos these people cannot deal with the topic at hand they have to veer off into oh but what about this!
What a whopper Eric is 😂
Big time.
It's key to realise that Bill was talking almost 4 years ago about rugby and its state, THEN, and he was also talking about wanting to make significant steps forward. For example lowering the head high of tackles. Rugby is not the state it was 4 years ago.
All appropriate measures should be taken to protect young people. But we can't remove anything that may cause harm, because there will be nothing left. That professor had the easiest job, everyone wants to protect children, and he made a terrible job of giving his point of view in the right way
Ugo really wasn't the best spokesman for rugby on here was unprepared and got his point across poorly
I don’t think he was that unprepared in what he had to say, more unprepared for the aggressive nature of the Prof. This was supposed to be a balanced discussion from both sides, instead it turned into the Prof not really being prepared to take any of what Ugo had to say on board, but rather adopt the I am right because I have done the research angle.
I’m not a fan of Ugo but think he did well here, completely disagree. As I say I’m not a fan of his, his knowledge of rugby is poor.
Ugo couldn’t even cite his sources, it doesn’t get any more unprepared than that but he’s not an academic like the professor who’s conditioned in constructing scholarly arguments
The professor coming out with rugby is child abuse is a disgrace. Kids shouldn’t be forced into anything but to say child abuse is a disgusting use of the term.
True, it’s like saying you were assaulted by someone who bumped shoulders with you on the street but it is consistent with the legal definition and we all know the law can be an ass sometimes like footballers handling the ball back into control then VAR allows it because the law states that if it bounces off their body and into their hand then it’s not handball
I played Rugby for 5 years in school and college and I think don't really me it effect negative a had.
😂😂😂😂
This guy either got some bad tackles or he is Yoda
A child got hit by a car when i was a kid, we should ban cars
As an American, I apologize for this dude. 🤦🏾♂️
Watched this live and half of it was censored:/
America hasn't banned guns yet & we're talking about banning Rugby.
There's no mention of Rugby in the US Constitution.
Do you know many billions if not trillions the arms industry is worth in America? They aren’t ever getting banned it would be financial suicide to do so
It is actually mentioned in page 67
School was rugby for me!!! More woke nonsense💔
Children getting brain injuries is woke now
Can’t argue against stupid, but Ugo did a damn good job of it! Rugby has its flaws and has some significant questions to answer from professional players from 10/20 years ago. But the way it has progressed, it is as safe as the sport has ever been, and hopefully this safety will improve. The dangers in the professional game are far worse than junior levels, but I bet most rugby players educated properly on dangers or not of any age would choose to play the sport they love! Not just this, playing contact 18 plus only shifts the injury issue to these older groups having not had a rugby education to play the game safely growing up. This chap is picking an argument for the sake of it without understanding the wider benefit of this sport, and focussing solely on the risk, head back across the pond and go ban reckless American football where head contact is still permitted, unlike our game where such contact is unlawful!
Jim White's media agenda is hilarious. The bit at the end especially. So pompous.
Essentially:
"So we've brought you two together?
"No"
"So you'll stay in contact?"
"No"
"Great to have brought you two together!"
🙄
My god people are getting so soft these days, it’s getting ridiculous, I loved playing rugby as a kid and so did everyone I played along side. I’ve played since 5 and I’ve loved every game and despite my many injuries I wouldn’t have changed a thing. People need to let other people do what they want, im certainly not going to let some American knob head with a BS degree who’s never played the sport tell me what to do.
Back in my day I used to walk to school barefoot, I’d get half an apple for Xmas if i was lucky. Kids today eh
playing rugby was some of my best days
i never once got injured..well once warming up .. i kicked off a tee and pulled my hamstring, not from rugby but from not warming up and being a fat idiot
rugby has saved more lives than killed
Loved playing Rugby at school, I played with Danny Care at Prince Henry's Grammar School in Otley. It's a contact sport, we all understood that, and we all knew the safety and how to play because we practised all the time. Yes, I understand about CTE and Brain Trauma, but not every session is about full contact tackling. The sport is getting into a place where head to head tackles are being highlighted more and more. The biggest issue us we either say No and stop the sport. Or we take the risk and make it as safe as possible.
No giving kids gender changing drugs is child abuse, not playing Rugby!
"Children should not be intentionally injured", but they are not intentionally injured are they..., rugby isn't about trying to hurt someone else but it is a contact sport. Injuries are part of all contact sport, including football etc. It is not like boxing however as the whole goal of boxing is to knock your opponent out/down and score more points by getting head/body shots.
Is Eric doing all this studying for free?
It's his job. He is a professor and he carries out research and teaching.
So makes out the problems are worse to keep his job
@@williamdickerson8898 hardly. Unless you think sports science is short of avenues of potential research?
Growing up in west Wales, Rugby was engrained in the culture. Saying this, there was absolutely no pressure to join a club and play. It was purely, if you were into rugby and fancied having ago then you were welcome to come and get involved. I think there was an understanding that Rugby, being a very tough sport....definitely wasn't for everyone when it comes to playing the sport. But saying this, I probably had some of the best times of my life playing for my local club in my teens. The buzz, the team camaraderie...the highs and the lows are all memories I would cherish for the rest of my life. In my 8 years of playing I saw maybe 2 serious injuries....all other knocks and smaller injuries were accepted as part of the sport, with all of us being willing participants. It could only be viewed as a form of child abuse if people were forced into playing.....which could be said for any sport. Although Rugby was a way more physical sport....I saw pretty much just a many injuries playing football and participating in Mountain biking and Motor cross ect.
First time I played rugby I cracked my head open.
I was 10, I needed five stitches and you could see my skull through the cut.
Fast forward a few years to secondary my PE teacher is bollocking us about our failure to tackle aggressively. In demonstrating how to do it 'properly' he bangs heads with one of the students, cracks his head open, student is crying, he has to leave the lesson to drive 15 miles to the local hospital to get stitches. My kids won't be playing rugby.
Prof Anderson’s points are undermined by his hysterical presentation. Ugo had the weaker arguments but came across much better.
So you prefer slick lies to the hard truth
Can you read?
How did he have weaker arguments?
@@1mattbuckland because like it or not there is growing evidence that head injuries do have a lasting impact, and most (not all) Ugo’s arguments were around what protocols are there to deal with injuries or smart mouthguards to measure impact - all after the event actions not actions to reduce incidents
I don't disagree with the doctor completely, but he's way too obnoxious with Ugo. He clearly doesn't respect him for his choices in being a professional athlete. And very quickly this dude will go and call for the cancellation of MMA, Boxing, and eventually football for heading the ball... I changed my mind while writing this lol
I think though there a difference between a adult choosing to become a professional athlete and a kid maybe being pushed into doing these things? I think you play modified versions of sports in schools and let adults make their own choices. So maybe touch rugby (or just tackling below the waist) in schools and let kids make a choice about going into the full game when they are 18.
OMG. what a world of snowflakes. If it is banned, then ANYTHING that involves touching should be banned. Baseball, soccer, football, basketball, quidditch, dodgeball, playing catch with anyone. Why stop there? what about emotional abuse? Ban anything negative in school, like telling students they were incorrect on tests, they were wrong for fighting, holding hands, shaking hands etc. Just give everyone a participation trophy.
All it'll take is one of the upcoming class-action court cases of former players to be successful and that'll be it as far as it being played at school as children can't give informed consent (and effectively neither can parents) and Schools/Education Authorities won't want to take the potential risk of bring sued down the road.
I remember playing rugby in wales for a bit at aged 11 and we never had any touch rugby. But you were taught very thoroughly how to tackle people and I never saw high tackles etc.
At its best, it's still a sport known for mild traumatic brain injury that can lead to long-term degenerative brain conditions.
@@richardjones8699 alcohol does far more damage. I look forward to seeing you call for prohibition and the removal of all pubs everywhere 😂 life has risks, or do you plan to keep your kids wrapped in bubble wrap their whole lives. How about cars, injures far more people than rugby, let’s get rid of them to. Mountain climbing, skiing, roller skating, ice skating, skate boarding, mountain biking etc…. All have hurt land killed so let’s ban them to right?
@@user-if6bx1gq5w It all comes down to informed consent. With much of what you mentioned you are aware of the risks (as an adult). Is there informed consent here (with children on school premises during school time)?
You can't argue with the evidence. The debate should be around where do we draw the line on regards to risks in all sports? Sports will not be banned so where is the line?
People who choose to take risks and potential sacrifices for personal gain and enjoyment.
I'm one of the authors of the study. We draw the line at the impact elements of sports where they happen by design of the sport such as tackles in rugby, or indeed are a direct goal of the sport such as boxing.
It would be more helpful if they focussed on which scenarios caused the most injuries and you tweak the rules for youth rugby to suit. What percentage is the scrums? What percentage is high tackles? What percentage is at the breakdown?
Rugby in school was almost mandatory in New Zealand. It was a big part of me growing up. I played competitive ice hockey. There is something about physical contact that attracts certain people like myself.
Younger kids usually play a form of tag to start with anyway. I'm not sure this kind of hardline is going to fly.
yeah so play optionally and warn kids of the dangers...
Ruby doesn’t exist as a sport, so how can you ban it?
Why is it child abuse? Who makes this judgement? Lmao
It's a dangerous sport.
Parents that have doubts shouldn't allow there child to participate, simple.
I loved playing rugby growing up as a child.
You can also get hurt badly in other sports...
But it's significantly higher in rugby 😂
@julianlouis1 he should be trying to ban NFL/HOCKEY. Football you can get badly hurt. The more you go deep into it you can just keep adding sports...
Problem with todays society is there so much cancel culture.
Everyone trying to tell you what you can do and can't say.
You enjoyed it because you were the one doing the damage. The kids who didn't want to play were your victims.
@@BristolMatt my school didn't do rugby in P.E LOL it was a choice. You chose to play for the school team.
The known harm is termed 'child abuse' by the legal position including England Rugby's own Safeguarding Policy by neglect and physical harm. The term is used accurately.
Lol South Africa is gonna run world rugby for many years to come if this is a real conversation in the UK.
Think its just england
Can’t be serious about taking rugby out of schools
Ban football as well you could get killed honsstly
Tbf rvp nearly died
Try this argument in South Africa 😅😂
More people got hurt in cricket & softball in my school days. There defo should always be options for kids to pick the sport including non contact... forcing a sport never really helps.
Exactly. As long as kids have a choice not to play it's fine.
I immediately scoffed when I saw the title. But considering former rugby players are being diagnosed with dementia - in their forties! - there certainly needs to be a discussion.
Ya I was the same but it's a scary thought to think that grown men in the prime of their lives will soon be shells of their former selves.
There's more and more former pros coming out saying they wish they started playing a different sport because rugby has stopped them being able to live the full life they want after their career.
True but to compare it child abuse and make claims that the intention or rugby is to Injure people is absolutely ridiculous.
Kids and parents should be given a choice. Protective gear warn maybe.
Thing is the logic of what he's saying is if you can Injured doing something it's abuse.
You can Injured in football.
Cricket, Tennis, Basketball. For all the reasons you ban rugby you could ban a dozen sports.
Or alternatively he's contradicting himself. Someone breaking your leg in football is okay but hurting your head is abuse.
@rhyschadwick3269 That’s no logical, you have to compare the risks associated with rugby and then tennis, which sport are you far more likely to get a concussion in?
@@tevildo45 That exactly my point. You can suffer an injury in any sport. To equate that risk to I jury to being deliberate or child abuse is completely ridiculous.
No sport is safe or completely safe. Tennis is probably one of the safer ones.
Butin football the risk is high, especially depending on your position. Similarly gymnastics, Trampolining, high diving
I played rugby from ages of 8 to mid 25 and shaped me into the man I am today. What a bunch of bloody wet fish.
I played rugby from the age of 8 until I was totally knackered, battered old body at the age of 39! In my 60´s now!
Comparing rugby to child abuse is outrageous. If you have points to make, make them, but don’t group good parents with child abusers. How on earth can you bring them to your side if you accuse them of the worst crime (or one of the worst crimes) a person can commit?
Stupidest debate ever!
When the species weakens these people speak to the nation!
Or when they smarten up.........
@@kingeatkingyour wives boyfriends wants a beer
Run along
@mccleandazza4618 Are you having a stroke ?
It sure felt like child abuse when I was forced to participate in secondary school, i absolutely hated it and was not the only one!
This is Ridiculous. I can see us (South Africa) lifting a 5th Webb Ellis Cup soon. The gap has been closing between Southern and Northern Hemisphere Rugby. This would definitely widen the gap.
this guy just wants to be right, its not really a debate, or even a discussion