PROOF that Pre-Slope Works! - Tile Coach Episode 19
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- čas přidán 17. 12. 2018
- A video demonstration, showing proof that Pre-slope on a shower pan works! Some argue that a pre-slope, or pre-pitch, underneath the waterproofing membrane for tile is unnecessary. This video sets out to prove that the pre-slope is an essential step in ensuring the proper function of a traditional type tile shower pan made with a pvc liner or hot mop.
The results were astonishing! when using this method, approximately 99% of the water that entered the pan system, exited out of the weep holes within minutes. Upon further investigation, parts of the mortar were broken away to reveal that only small droplets were left on the pan liner itself.
To see how I built my demonstration shower floor for tile, you will need to watch other videos that explain in detail how I did each step.
Easy shower pan liner: • Easy Shower Pan Liner:...
How to Mix Deck Mud: • Easy Deck Mud: Tile Co...
How to float a Curb: • How to Float a Shower ...
How to Slope a Shower Pan • How to Slope a Shower ...
Thank you for watching! you can find me on instragram @tilecoach.
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Well what do you know. Great video.
How you like that sal? Chalk one up for the old schoolers huh? That was great
Sal, now that we see how well the pre slope appears to work in real lide, what are your thoughts about putting RedGard over the shower floor prior to installing tile over it?
Michael Dreher it doesn’t make sense to apply regard. If is not connected to the drain
@@michaeldreher7475 I have seen the drain in this type of system get completely blocked with efflorescence and mineral deposits, I have seen those deposits work their way between the liner and drain body, clamping ring and cause a leek. I have seen them fail because they were not installed properly. That does not mean that they always fail, it just means that in certain circumstances they can fail. So adding a waterproofing membrane on top will work, if you do it in such a way to make the liner redundant. That means transforming the "Water in, Water out" system to a sealed system. So the key is to seal the waterproofing to the walls, and to the drain, so no water at all gets to the mud. Problem is that this type of drain will allow water into the mud if it ever gets clogged or backs up. So the liner has to be there to contain any water in the event of a clogged drain. This is why I don't do Vinyl liners anymore. There is actually a way to use this kind of three piece drain without a liner, Look into the Divot Method.
Sal DiBlasi si you would recommend the divot method ? That’s what I been doing as it made more sense to me and also so I diddnt have to buy their expensive drain.
I friggin love your videos you've really helped solidify everything I've researched into a level of total confidence that my new shower is totally waterproof.
HOWEVER! "A preslope takes 10 minutes"? Broooooo you're the TILE COACH it took me like 2 hours.
But no in all seriousness you're awesome. Thank you, I appreciate your videos.
*Isaac, to me, this is one of your best videos.* IMO, pre-slope is critical and this knowledge is fundamental. I just sent a link for this video to my tile guy who doesn't seem to get why I am insisting on pre-slope.
Thanks dude!! I've debated this many times in FL. They say drop pans dont need it. I say every shower needs it. This is a prime example why to preslope and have proper water proofing. Thank you for doing the testing and video to explain it. You da man!!
You make the best videos I have seen. I am a carpenter literally on the opposite side of you in northeast of New England. I am not a tile expert, but you have answered so many questions that others cannot without me even asking!
Thank you! 🙏 🙏 💪
I love it when people do it by the book! I will not bore you with my experience the last 18 yrs of re-doing failed shower pans. There is a reason why engineers who design these systems go to school for a long time. To say “there is no need for it” is pretty much saying you know more than they do. Thumbs up to videos like these that teach the right way to do it.
But starttile said we dont need one, he's the smartest guy on here
Nice demonstration! Back in the day roofers used to install hot mop pan's not only were they not presloped but they would also get tar in the weep holes. With the holes clogged with tar the water would stay in the mortar & over time minerals would seep out of the dry pack mortar against the walls. This would leave nasty deposits at perimeter of floor. Nice job on your floating its nice to know there is still setters out there that have skills installing mortar. I have been doing showers for over 4 decades & i have not ever had a floated curb carry water over the curb. What scares me more is folks who put screws thru cementitious backer board & penetrate the membrane over the curb depending on caulking to control water for 20 or 30 years or more. keep up the good work!
This video is 110% correct! I remodel bathrooms and whenever I take out someone's existing shower pan it is full of water and it stinks. In some cases the mortar is starting to fail. The few I have removed with a pre-slope are always in great shape. As Isaac stated, you may not have an issue with placing the liner flat on the sub-floor but it's just a matter of time. If you want your shower to last more than 10 years, do the pre-slope!
Where the shower drain grill meets the mortar is not sealed. That's were the water is going. If he wanted to prove the pre slope works he would have red guarded over the center of the including the drain. There is no seal where the plastic meets the the the pan. Am I correct that the showers you are remodeling also do not have a water membrane on top of the pan.
@@theamericanopry I don't understand the question? "...also do not have a water membrane on top of the pan?"
@@torre1481 Red Guard
you dont have a clue@@theamericanopry
This is an awesome video! I am a rookie as far as shower floors but this explained so much. The effectiveness of pre slope and why I would not want to put a waterproof membrane directly underneath the tile. Deck mud, looks like the way to go for me.
What a great video, no one that I know of has shown anything like this. Good job. You also said not to red guard the bed, which makes sense to me. I've always applied red guard before I laid the tile. I can now see why you shouldn't, I know many have done the same thing. Thank you for this test.
Great video! I worked for a custom home builder all through college. I worked with a lot of the subs and remember back then (1986-1990) they always built pre-slopes. I hardly see them built anymore. My shower does not have one. 5 years after owning this house I'm getting ready to rip this shower out and build a nice custom walk-through shower. Also, I have seen recently guys coating the deck mud with red guard. I assume they think doing that is necessary because there is no pre-slope. A flat liner will ALWAYS hold some water, and eventually weaken the mud.
Thank you for the video. Stuff like this teaches more than just telling everyone they need a pre-slope just because. Thanks again.
Awesome. Very helpful. Don’t stop pumping out the video
Great video! Different schools of thought, at the end we all benefit from this
Great clip! Right to the point and clearly explained.First clip I would show my crew. Glad you showed the TCNA standards.
Easily the best video I’ve seen which gives such a clear and concise demonstration of the mechanics of a custom shower pan system. Many thanks for this incredible educational video!
I've learned a lot watching your videos bro. Thanks for posting all of this.
I totally agree with the pre slope. Would be great to do the exact same video or presentation without the pre slope. And see how much water sits in the pan.
Excellent demo of how a proper shower floor/liner works. Conventional is the only way to go!
I like this guy, he puts some care and attention into his work. I love his experiments, that's what progress is all about.
@@TileCoach Thank you Isaac. You show a lot of character and integrity in your work. Most guys just put down whatever and when they get home, they don't even contemplate new solutions. You have a great attitude towards your work and your service to others. That's a rare quality in men these days. Very honored to watch your videos, it's a joy to learn so much from a guy with great principles.
Your testing videos are entertaining and cool to see how everything functions behind the scenes.
Love when you do these man!! 🙌🏽
Glad to be the 300th like! Isaac that was an awesome demonstration of the water-in/water-out system. I have always thought of the deck mud as a sponge, that's the best way to visualize it. I tell people all the time who as me how did water get past their shower tiles, that the grout lines are just sponges, people think mortar is waterproof. this useful visual shows otherwise. It still prefer doing the Schluter pre-formed shower pans which are a sealed system, as opposed to a water in/water out system.
thank you for this one! I was left a widow awhile back and he left me with a half finished bathroom remodel . All I have left to do is the shower ~ I think I can do it after watching most of your videos ....
I learned a lot from this video, nice job.
Super detailed. Love the way you explain things!.
Hello from Greece .Thank you very much for simplicity and directness .
Yasoo malaka lol
I use to work for greck persone nice guy
Finally… a. video that makes me feel confident for decision of doing a pre-slope. 💯
I just reakized Ive been watching your videos and im not subscribed, so I subscribed! Thanks for the educational videos
Brother you’re an amazing coach thank you for this excellent lesson
Bro absolutely love this footage and it has inspired me who ever taught you would be proud
Great video, just in time for me to try this method. Thanks for posting.
Outstanding video!! Well done!!
This one really helped me understand so much more I didn’t understand how porous it was and how a preslope works
Dude you're doing a great job I love you exclamation
Rene Murrieta !!!
Thanks TileCoach! Great Video
GREAT INFO COAH🤙🏽 KEEP THE VIDEOS COMING🤙🏽🙏💯
Dude , I promise you this , you are spot on!!!!!!!!!!!
Dude keep these test up this is super helpful
OH---WELL if the PAN LINER MANUFACTURER recommends it then it must be LEGIT! C'MON DUDE! They're trying to sell products. I can't believe you even said that.
Good job keep up the good videos did an awesome explanation👍
Great explanation / video , easy to understand .
Most of the drains I’ve put in also have drainage Channels in the threads of the stem. Did you by chance seal that area to insure all the water was forced through the weep holes. It doesn’t have any bearing on the conclusion but it just seems too fast for those small holes to drain all that water. The pre-slope is clearly a must have. You confirmed that for the unbelievers. Great vid.
Right, there a bunch of channels for water besides plugging the drain
I appreciate his work as it brings light to the issue. However, we are not unbelievers, that's an unwitting way to deviate from the point at hand. We question and challenge what we want to make certain of and this has nothing to do with belief or unbelief!
Very nice demonstration video.
Great video. It would be good to do a comparison mock-up with no preslope.
You think the sun would work better if it came out of the west jakaja
Great video. We need to know the difference without preslope for sure.
@@DreyDreyDrey there is none
@@marcoshoffner1738 What nonsense are you talking about.....if its an experiment it needs a control.
Great video! tile guy's rock !!
Great video thank you for all your help.
Bro! Much respect! Thank you for all the time and energy you pour into these videos!
God bless you!
Perfect... Understood everything
Thank you
I especially like the drainage mat. I should do that on my installs going forward.
That seems like over kill to me. The water is gonna hit the pan weep mat or not. It isn’t like you are straining out debris. Just more money on a system I use to make more money then using pre done styrofoam pans.
great demonstration
Several youtube tilers say we don't need a pre-slope. I always do one anyway, and now I can say why. Thanks for this detailed explanation. Every tiler should see this.
Ted Weddell preslope helpless do the waterproof before
@@marcopoulin1897 🤣 how does water drain with no slope? Magic right?
@@bolerdweller water travels to the least resistance, it will find the drain eventually.
@@howtodoitdude1662 eventually I guess. Put the drain higher than the water and your pan is now saturated
Issac awesome video! Have you considered this mockup without the use of Schluter Troba to compare the drainage efficiency?
Like you don't have enough peanuts already, I think you should have tiled that test box before you tore it apart then did the water test. It would be wild to see how much water passes through the grout lines on a floor!
You be surprised if open up shower floor packing was saturated in water NO SLOP NO RUN OFF 110% NEEDED
Whats the point of that, the test was to show that it work in the event water gets in. A better test would be to do a preslope vs no preslope to see the difference.
@@hereticxxx9317 that’s easy poor water on a flat surface and see how long in stays..
ok but the pan is saturated and there for compromised. if the pan is saturated hasn't the fail clock started?
I do preslope cause I was taught that way but if the pan is saturated it's done and will not ever dry out.
@@IdemRedd I've demoed showers new and decades old,the mud IS ALWAYS MOIST and stays that way and this test proves it.
Great great video man!
thanks for the explanation. i see some saying not necessary but this makes sense to me
I like your videos, man...keep it up.
Very interesting pan design .
Great video again. Got me thinking now. I'm curious how long it would take to drain after tiled and grouted if grouted with a good grout with the sealer in it. Maybe tec power grout or the fusion.
@@TileCoach I will predict that a new installation will have a fairly low rate of water going through it, but more than you might think. However an older installation that has been subjected to the normal stresses of being in a wooden house with all the expansion and contraction that happens over time, will have a substantially greater flow of water. It should also be noted, that much of the water in a normal situation will simply be directed to the drain from the surface of a tiled shower floor, or even just a mud floor without tile.
Isaac,
I've got a question for you. I'm currently installing a curbless on a slab. From what I've gathered from your videos, a pre-slope is not needed if you are using a surface waterproofing solution such as ardex 8+9, schluter, etc? Is this correct? I just finish my deck mud to the needed 1/4 inch per foot, waterproof, and set tile, correct? I have not found a video on this at all.
I have the same question. Did you find the answer?
That is exactly what I thought. Thank you!
great demo.
Great video from a guy serious with what he'd done.
Pre-slope is a must if you want a shower to last. I replaced a shower floor for a realtor friend of mine, the drain flange was sitting on top of the plywood and whoever did the shower just ran the liner flat on the plywood and over the drain flange, so there was a hump all the way around where it went up on the flange. The shower was only 5 years old and so saturated that water was still standing on top of the tile after hours of using it.
That's a problem with mud bed slope on top of the liner, not the preslope under the liner.
Great video bro. I always wondered about that. If the water actually saturates
You should have done a side by side with a mock up that didn't have a pre-slope. That's the only way to definitively show that a pre slope works as its supposed to
Not even necessary. Within 3 minutes, he had more than 95% of that water drained into the bucket below. Gravity alone is all the proof you need that water would pool around a drain lip without a pre-slope.
In my 40 years in this biz I’ve never seen this in action, just did it because it was how I was trained to do. I have to say I was amazed at how well the weep holes drained. One of your best videos. Would have need nice to see how the no slope pan would have faired as well. Thanks for this!
great video for do it "yourselfer"!
Isaac your the man I've been wanting to do this exact mock up. Pre slope rocks. Send this to Starr tile and the other hacks on here that say no pre slope! Love your channel brother
Lol!!! Hell ya! You are a lot better than Bobby!!!
I'll try it Monday without the drain mat.
Great videos just a question I've been plumbing for over twenty years we never installed a pre slope but we always counter sunk the shower drain below the top of wood or floor. Would love to see a demo on that, we just flipped the drain upside-down penciled around it then cut wood out with saw all at 45degree angle to counter sink it think it is a good as pre slop with out the extra work or the extra thickness
You are a hack, thank you for keeping me slammed with work and close to retiring at just 50 years old. I salute you. What don’t you get as a plumber about slope? Do you plumb your drain lines level??? Unbelievable. Shit must flow uphill in your area.
Lmao
Great experiment
Isaac, your videos are very helpful.. Do you have one showing the install of the pre-slope ?
Nice work!
Great video👍. Do you still use or recommend pvc liners? Do the organic compounds eventually clog the weep holes?
Great video 👍
Cool video! What do you think about the positive weep protector that comes with the noble shower pre slope kit?
Good demo video ,, thanks ....
Awesome Test.... In order: Do a; Pre slope, Rubber liner, either thin layer of gavel or a channel mat, then mortar..... Sweet!!!!
Great 👍 video. Good job
Great video
I just ripped apart my shower floor. The clamping ring was just sitting on top of the drain assembly. No putty, just sitting on top. The membrane was tight between the clamping ring and the drain cap receiver. Yet there was a big leak from the drain area outward toward the wall. Damn builders !
@@TileCoach My sub floor wasn't level. So I did a mortar slope under the pan liner. This way any water on the liner will go toward the drain. What do you think ? I'm still gonna put a 2" dry pack slope on the liner with 1/4" slope for every foot though.
Great video! So am I understanding it right? The preslope is a secondary drain if or when water gets past the tile and grout?
That is correct
@@TileCoach Thanks!
The great thing about your videos is the full explanation you give then along with the test. I didnt know deck mud was so porous! Is this a better way then the schulter drain ring system?
Great video, thanks!!
The clamping ring goes above tbe preslope, below Or flush? Also do your build your preslope(i think its 1/4 inch per foot, correct me if im wrong) and then build your mudbed on top? Or build the preslope slightly and continue to build mud bed until it reaches its slope?
Really nice demo, but I think all you proved is that weep holes work! Preslope/No Preslope debate is an interesting one. On the other hand, I am in the process of taking out our 70 year old tile shower floor. No preslope, no waterproof membrane, no lead pan, no copper pan, just a layer of what looks like tarpaper over the subfloor and up the wall about an inch! What did they do back then that allowed these showers to last so long!
What's your opinion on coating the wood subfloor with rubberized asphalt sealer, under the the pan liner ? Also slapping alot of sealer around the wood subfloor drain hole ?
when installing a pre slope on wood floor, do you need to put tar paper and wire mess before your sand mix or thinset on the wood floor before sand mix? i wish you have a video on the proper way to install a preslope on wood. thanks
Yes. 15lb minimum roofing paper then your mesh. I use a plastic version from Mapei. But metal will work. Just tired of scraping up my hands.
You said it there Bobby.
Bobby, Bobby,Bobby! Damnit Bobby!!!
Hi your videos are great. Have you done any videos on laying large format tiles for the shower pan/slope? Sorry I'm not a tiler I don't know all the terms.
Just a question why not pre slope and redgaurd so if water makes it through the red guard it will run out the sweep holes I am not a tile guy just wanting to build my shower correctly thanks
I pre-sloped, 40-mil, 1" topping then red-guarded the entire shower, bascially like having a full rubber liner under the tile. I didn't see any reason why this would be wrong. Sure it cost me a bucket of Red-guard, but since I was doing it all myself and was my first custom shower, I didn't want to cut corners. 4 months in, no leaks yet.
So, if you want to do a linear drain with no curb and you want to put Schluter's Ditra Heat system in the shower, is the ditra board (plastic sheet with the knobs to hold the wires) form an undesirable barrier on top of the dry pack base? Or, would you only use ditra heat on top of a foam slope from Schluter or similar? I am asking as a confused homeowner who has time and wants to redo a shower on a second floor where waterproofing is extra important.
So should there be a pre slope before your actual float with the deck mud? And also I use hot my but I'm not sure if they pre-slope there hot mop. I'm trying to watch all your videos in it's very informative thank you. David from San Diego
Question: If you put redguard or similar product on top wouldn't it be about the same result as this? Most of this water is running off the surface through the weep hole. If you wanted to check the movement through the mortar then barricade the drain off completely???? Different question, if you used redguard and if water got passed the redguard would the mortar ever dry?
Got me sold buddy on preslope 😎
wow. thank you for doing this!
Really good info
Wow this is enlightening
Good teacher👍🏽
Do you have to let the pre slope dry before you put in the pan liner?
Fungus foot!! My previous home had a two-person walk-in tile shower with no pre-slope. I watched the tile guy build it; it never occurred to me there was any error.
The outside of my left foot always had what I thought was athletes foot. I would get it mostly under control with sprays, but it would always come back- same exact place, nowhere else.
One day I accidentally stepped a little closer to my corner of the shower and it felt extra slippery. I got down to examine the area and found it was quite slimy. So I scrubbed it with bleach, and a few days later it was back. The slimy corner was nearest where my left foot stood every day, sometimes twice a day, when I took a shower, my back to the showerhead.
Since my shower was used most, I believe my side always had the most moisture, and the dead corner grew fungus, which was transmitted every single day to the closest body part, my lateral left foot! Yuck.
I sold that house. I’m building a cabin now-diy. I just put in a pre-slope for my shower.
It took me more than 10 minutes, but it was my first time.
Did you disclose this when you sold it?