Bob Glidden's Pro Stock 351 Cleveland Heads:His Secret Revealed
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- čas přidán 29. 10. 2020
- This video is going to reveal the secret of Bob Gliddens Pro Stock 351 Cleveland heads. You will see something very few have seen, ever. Intro about my upcoming videos, with Darin Morgan on pro stock head principles and secrets. Also another episode with Tristan Triccas, aka Trickie from the famed duo of Trickie and Manswetto of Australia. Stay tuned, please like, share, and subscribe. Thanks Guys.
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
My dad was a hardcore Chevy guy in the 70s, but he decided to try a Ford for once because of Bob Glidden. So one day I was walking home from school and seen a 70 cougar sitting in the driveway with a q code 351 Cleveland 4V closed chambered heads. He was no longer a Chevy guy 😊
Thanks for sharing. That surprised me. Would not think he would give up the orange for the blue, but all good for sure. Thanks for watching and commenting. Please subscribe and share with your Motörhead buds. More to come.
Awesome story! I know several Chevrolet guys who switched to Ford....ME included!
Remember Etta too guys. She was right there working with Bob the whole time. Then the kids. I lived in Greenwood as a kid and played with Bob's much younger cousin...all us used to play baseball in the schoolyard and such. He came and got me one day all excited so we ran over to his house. Bob and Etta were visiting and he had that amazing red white and blue Ford on the trailer and I immediately fell in love. With the car. Bob was awesome too we jumped up and checked it out close and he never told us to stop. Ya...Bob Glidden was the best race car driver of all time and I dont give a rats behind what anybody thinks about it.
Yes that was the key a family affair. Every one was involved. I have countless stories of how people would walk up and look and how personable he was. My earliest memory is a guy down the street that had a hemi super bee. We called him Hot Rod Todd. That car was a 4 speed, I can still hear him peeling out as my mom would say. Then a guy with a 68 mustang moved next door. That car is what made me like fords. It was a small block car but had big cam. Big tires. The fever started. Thanks for watching and please subscribe and share with your friends. More to come
The thing that impressed me most about Bob Glidden was, even though he was an intense competitor the man always had time to talk and treat his fans like he Cared! I was always a Ford guy and my best buddy was a Chevy lover that always pulled For Bill Jenkins. We were walking through the pits at a race we came to the Jenkins pit it was roped off so you couldn't get with in 50 feet of the car and there was a person chasseing every body away. We walked on to were Bob was pitted and he just blende in like he was a regular guy.
I remember that about him too.
First time I met Bob I was just 15, still wet behind the ears.
He would listen to all my dumb questions and took the time to answer with much patience.
Just a great guy and racer, you could tell he cared.
I have heard that before about the Grump. You are so right, Glidden took time for his fans. I met him back in like 2002,3 I used to race nmra events and Billy was there. I went to check out Billy’s car and Bob was there. We talked for a brief minute. He apologized as he had to go and gave me Billy’s hero card. I wanted ask so many questions, but it was not meant to be. Thanks Mylan for watching. Please share with your friends and stay tuned.
@@suzyjohnson4667 no Doubt Bob. Thanks for watching please subscribe and share my friend. Help me grow this channel and stay tuned.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I know you cover more of the Ford stuff but can you make a video covering the one and only turbocharged V6 that was in Pro Stock the Grand National based engine I believe they only used it for a few seasons but it managed to run with the big cubic inch Chevy's,Ford's, and Mopar's
@@keefespencer1173 I will mention it and maybe make a video. I think your talking about Buddy Ingersol he was winning and they outlawed it. I am more Ford and cleveland, but researching this, getting me pumped. Please subscribe and share and stay tuned.
It's been a long time so excuse me if my numbers are off ok. Ford cleveland p/s motors had something like an 8 or 10 degree valve angle which allowed a high compression ratio with a piston that had a minimal dome. The motor also needed less ingition timing because of that, timing is negative work because it's effectively trying to stop the piston prior to reaching TDC. Look at a modern p/s engine today they all have similar valve angles and piston domes. Glidden was unquestionably brilliant but the ford was a better mouse trap to start with.
P/S ?
There will never be another Bob Glidden...RIP
Rip. Stick around and see what goes down. I bet you get into it. Thanks
Exactly Dennis....................
@@THROTTLEPOWER No doubt.....
@@racingb67race21 Yall don't forget he has two very talented sons, who are keeping up the family traditions!
No doubt about that. What is Rusty up too Cliff?
way back in the 70s I bought a stock car engine from a guy who had recently been forced to stop running his 351C, many of the parts and machining had been done by Holman and Moody, the heads were heavily massaged, big custom valves, Roller Rockers, Studs, and Big Crower cam, I installed the beast into a 69 Mach 1 with a C6 and 4500 stall converter, 9 inch rear, narrowed and tubbed. The first day I pulled it out of my garage to take a short spin, pulled up to the highway and wham that motor spun up and I was wheels up down the road...right behind me a state trooper.....he asked if the car was street legal and I said yes, huge Carb poking up thru a hole where my scoop was supposed to be, had to build several custom oil pans with windage and trap doors and some other mods to keep it from pumping oil up, it sure was fun, Those heads were some custom-built one-offs I was told from the Holman and Moody Nascar shop, many custom parts, but she was a runner, the Engine block was Boss 351 and it also had received lots of work, Crank and rods were custom, shot peened and ground, balanced, everything was first-rate racing quality, Clevite bearings, Mellings oil pump, and custom drive shaft for distributor and oil pump, many parts extra....what I wouldnt give to have that engine today.
Don, you can build one along with me, if you really want to. I bet it was fast, love the trooper story,I bet we all have some of those for sure. Please subscribe, and share. Been busty at work with this virus, so need to get some vids done, hopefully this weekend. Thanks for taking the time.
Great video. I'll never forget in the 90's driving from Nebraska to the cup race in Michigan, coming home we detoured to Gliddens shop on Monday morning. Bob was sitting in the parking lot with a parrot on his shoulder. He was sincerely blown away that we drove that far on a chance we could meet him. He was incredibly grateful, we were flabbergasted. Received the whole shop tour and autographs. Topped the trip off at his neighbors, the late CJ Rayburn. A friend was running his chassis at the time, both were great men.
Wow, David, thanks so much for sharing, that would be epic. I would still be talking about it, lol. Send me a pic, be cool to see David, thanks for watching, stay tuned.
I remember, back in the day , reading an article in Hot Rod or Car Craft about Glidden doing this. They stated that he furnace welded his ports and combustion chambers to change their shape to gain that little extra HP. Of course there were articles about the aluminum raised port exhaust plates, everyone was using them. All the top Pro Stock Ford racers, Glidden, Gap & Rouge, Nicholson, et all ran the Cleveland. It was a glorious time. I would sneak a car magazine into school and read it in between the pages of the book we were studying.
I do too, it was like the best times all around growing up. No craziness out there. Cool music. Man to go back in time, well we can do it with this pro stock build. Thanks for watching please subscribe and share with your Motörhead buds and let’s keep rocking on. Much more in store
Dude' it's Gapp & Roush as in Jack Roush of Nascar fame. I wouldn't normally rip on a spelling error but too me, the PRO STOCK guys in the 70's were as close to racing god hood as you can get and Glidden ruled over them all..
@@JB-xp8xl Wayne and Jack were Ford engineers back then.
Anyone here remember the "Tijuana Taxi" 4-Door Maverick they ran in order to take advantage of NHRA's 'weight v. wheelbase' rule back then? 🤔
@@johnjohnsn7633 1 of my favs race cars of all time. Glidden ran a 70 Mustang at same time.
I remember a story Bob's family member told me once. He said Bob was a work-o-holic and never stopped till Etta raised Hell with him. At lunch time, he and his crew would break at a Diner and Bob would order himself something on the menu. Then order the same thing for the rest of his crew. He said it saved time. That was Mr. Bob Glidden in a nut shell.
That is funny. You get what you get and don’t have a fit. Thanks Robert for watching and enjoying my channel.
Bob was a man ahead of his time and all his competition!Love the channel brother!!!
Lots to explore. Thanks. More on the way.
When NASCAR and NHRA had a rules package that resulted in the 351C being the engine of choice there was a lot of engineering done by the race teams. Glidden, Gapp & Roush, Wood Brothers, Hollman & Moody, etc. The Aussie guys were there too. Once the Americans had moved on from the Cleveland architecture the Aussies continued to work on it for years. Lots of different production heads ( Boss, 302C, Pantera, 2v , 4v, big chamber, small chamber) for different applications. Combined with different blocks, crankshafts, intake manifolds, pistons, connecting rods, exhaust manifolds the combinations and permutations grew and grew. Then the idea of pot plates was introduced to change the air flow characteristics for various uses.
When the race team I was part of in the early 1990's decided to run a 351C in the NASCAR late model in order to be different we tracked down some of the guys who had raced the engine in the 70's. The rules required production parts; no race only blocks, heads, manifolds, etc. We were so outside the norm with what we were doing that it took us two years to develop an engine package that worked like we wanted. The benchmark was the Chevy that all but one other team ran; the exception was a Mopar. We broke a lot of rare and expensive parts. Once it was all developed we had a 358 cid, 14.5:1 Cleveland that would turn 7500rpm and live a whole season without a problem. I don't remember if we ever had an engine on a dyno but I would suspect it made power similar to the Chevy of the day.
Learned a lot but got tired of destroying stuff every weekend, rebuilding and repairing during the week just to do it again. So I use that experience and knowledge to restore cars now. Still having fun with it.
Thanks for watching and commenting with your experience. I have heard the same that down under they were still racing the old Clevo,and making it better. Can you share with us what you learned to keep them going 7500 for extended periods with circle track racing. It would be cool to see what did compared to what I have currently. Thanks again for providing us with your racing history. Please subscribe and share with your mates. And much more in store.
Dry sump?
@@larrynorsworthy8582 No, wet sump required by the rules
@@erikalarson6803 billet crank and H beam rods?
@@larrynorsworthy8582 I would say yes. I like to explore external wet sump or 3/4 stage dry. Thanks for watching. Stay tuned more on the way
When I was in my early 20s back in 2000 I was at a fun ford weekend event in Stanton Michigan. Bill Glidden had his black super street mustang there that weekend I saw it in the pits in between rounds Bill was working on something under the hood I was up close to it trying to see thru the tinted passenger door window to see the inside of the car Bob Glidden walked up to me and I thought he was going to tell me to back up away from the car but he opened the door and said go ahead and get in so I climbed into the passenger seat just after I got in the car Bill fired up the engine and hit the throttle a few times really cool memory I just remembered while watching this video
That's off the scale cool...man, you were right time, place, and people !!
That is an experience of a lifetime. I had similar experience. I went to see Billy’s Black Stang at national trail in Columbus. I was looking at it and Bob came up and gave me a hero card signed. He said he would love to talk but just can’t right this second. He apologized. He said come back, but I never got a chance. Those are the days. Much more in store stay tuned.
Glidden actually was racing a Pro 5.0 car at that time.....the black Fox
Dang man that’s pretty cool. That’s how bob glidden was. He loved people
Dude!!!! That's off the chain! I'm happy you got to make that memory....awesome!!!
thanks for posting this, I was a young man during the great Glidden family race era , and I got to see the family race many ,many times at Columbus raceway Springnationals. The thing that impressed me most about this man was that is that he was so simple in his basic approach to mechanical things. He began working on farm tractors and it ended with him being the greatest Pro Stock Champion of all time!!! This should give everybody hope for a greater end to where they are now. Bob Glidden is what I would call a great success story and will always be one of my greatest heroes for what he accomplished with what he had . And what he had was no formal education unlike Warren Johnson , who was a mechanical engineer or Bill Jenkins , who went to Cornell university. I believe this is the real reason WJ disliked Bob so much , because he was getting trounced his whole career by a" farm tractor mechanic" !!!! I began following pro stock drag racing when it blossomed from a super stock class called XSS by NHRA , meaning experimental superstock. This is the category of cars that made up this pro stock class when it started. I am from the York , Pa. area and watched Bill Jenkins regularly at York US 30 Dragway. Bill's car was the first successful pro stock car, followed by the dominance of Sox & Martin, Dick Landy, Bob Lambeck, Billy Stepp, Don Grotheer, Jack Werst, and later Dyno Don Nicholson, Gapp and Roush, Wally Booth, Maskin and Kanner, and on and on. To address why I believe Bob Glidden will forever be the greatest pro stock Champion in the history of the sport. You cannot look at his number of Championships alone as his accomplishments because what NHRA did to him to make the class competitive for the chevrolets was to keep adding weight to his cars so that they could compete. If you read the older copies of the pro stock rules in the nhra rulebook at that time , the rules state specifically that due to the "Unfair horsepower advantage" of the cleveland engine " the for racers are required to weigh in at a heavier level to make the class more competitive!!!!! If Bob's car had not ever been factored to weigh more than his competitors no one would have been able to beat him and there is no telling how many individual wins and championships he would have amassed in his career !!!!!!!!!!!! I am a diehard Mopar fan not a Ford fan ,but; watching what this man was able to do over his drag racing career, I became a great fan and follower !!!!! I honor this man's legacy and accomplishments and who Bob Glidden really is as an innovator , engine builder, driver, husband to his wife Etta, father to his sons Rusty, and Billy, and to the drag racing fans who had the privilege to see him in person and watch him race !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bob Glidden will never be forgotten by the people who Knew who he really was !! THANK YOU Bob for the hard working example you set for all of us, may you rest in peace!!!!
Thank you for this well stated article
Great synopsis my friend. Thanks for taking the time to recognize Bob and his accomplishments You are right about the weight factoring, kind of unbelievable that was the way Nhra worked it. I never knew anyone’s educational background, hmmm Grump went to Cornell, never knew it. Thanks again for contributing to my channel ans helping me build it. Stay tuned more to come hopefully this week.
The more i read and research info on Bob the more he amazes me. How he understood how the heads worked and how they needed to work is beyond me. Very intelligent guy. Thanks for sharing again Dragboss. Your very unique ability to bring us this info is second to none!! Thanks Steve
Thank you my friend. Glidden was one of those guys that just got air flow. It’s like a surgeon, they have the hands or not. I have worked with tons of surgeons from general surgery, plastic surgery, and 13 years of cardiac surgery. You can tell right away if the have the “hands”. It’s a gift. I apparently you watching and just wait until the interviews start. We all are going to learn a lot more. Thanks for watching and much more in store.
Love all your Fun Ford Facts . This is quickly turning into my favorite Channel to listen to while I work.
Thanks William. Way more on the way. Just trying to get Cougar figured out lots of issues but getting through it. Have quite a few live chats on the way. Glad your here William
Wow, Bob Glidden was an engine master !!!! thank you for showing these great pics and videos !!!!
Thanks Robby, share this vid with tour buds and help me build this channel. Stay tuned and there is much more to come.
Bob Glidden was THE MAN. He took a big, boxy, thoroughly un-aerodynamic Ford Fairmont and made it run the 1/4 mile in 8 1/2 seconds at 160 mph, winning the World Championship in 1980! That's absolutely amazing. Thanks for shedding some light on why his car's were always so fast. 👍 👍
Thanks for watching and contributing to the channel. It is growing fast. Got lots of updates. Yes he was the man, i love the stance of his Fairmount nose down for business. Please share with your friends. Stay tuned.
Wow you really know what your talking about spud Dick 🤣🤣
In fact you don’t even have a car just a keyboard 😆
Sorry to see you go spud Dick
Didn't he get it to 8.21 @ 164mph?
Awesome. Glidden is my favorite driver. Love seeing what he did. Thanks for showing us this stuff.
Can you imagine How many Championship's he would have won if it was like top fuel were they didn't refactor the Engine every time he won! The closest engine for factoring was the Small block Chevy and the Cleveland was 3/4 of a pound per cubic inch heavier!
Your welcome. Glad you stopped by. Please make sure you like 👍 and subscribe. Thanks
Back in 1978 I worked at Precision Automotive and Machine Shop in Flint, Michigan, we would stay over after 5:00 P.M. when the store closed and we would build a lot of "Grenades", the boss Clint didn't mind and that's exactly what we would do is build our own H/C heads by building up the area you showed in the video, but it was all Chevy small block heads. I wouldn't say we pioneered it but that's what we did was heat up the Cast Iron heads before building up those areas. I won't try taking credit for something unless I know I'm responsible for it, good or bad. I could share some stories with you but I don't know how this internet works with exchanging addresses without everyone ending up with mine and making crank emails. I just subbed, left a thumbs up, and a tap on the bell, I enjoyed your show. Bobby.
Thanks Bobby for watching, enjoying and subbing. Bob was doing this in like 75, when these pics were taken. I never knew that Chevy heads. Email me thpa351@gmail.com. Appreciated 🏁
We need to bring back Nostalgia pro stock. The greatest class ever ran specially when they had AHRA. I am a Oldsmobile man my self but bob is my hero
We do for sure. I like all engines, they have something unique. Thank for watching. I just got the mopar pro stock secret book, so look and see what else o can find. I like Warren Johnson as a driver too, the professor was a genius in his own right. Probably sucks and share with your friends. Stay tuned
I just wish they would make Pro Stock stock based with factory based powerplants and Lencos and wheel tubs. Period.
@@calvincooley1074 be a bad ass class. Lots of guys into it. You never know. But that is the racing that I enjoyed the most. Welcome aboard and enjoy. Lots of racing stuff period
In Hawai'i we still run nostalgia cars. Full bracket racing and a whole pile o nostalgia cars make the show....
You know Bob ran a Pro Stock Plymouth Arrow with the 360 'LA'-type engine for a while. Just as successful as his Ford days. 🙂
I was a Grumpy fan in the 70's, and was feeling really down when Glidden started winning all the time. And then I got really depressed when Maskin-Kanners started winning with the AMC. The AMC got competitive when Maskin sectioned some cylinder heads lengthwise at two different heights, then brazed them together to make tall, raised ports. The creativity and hard work that it took to make power back then was colossal.
I hear you Andy. Nhra did not like it either and kept penalizing Cleveland’s with more weight. It’s amazing every time I think about the work that all teams and brands out into it. Thanks forgot and please subscribe and share with your friends and help me build this channel. I may try and call Maskin and see if he will talk. Stay tuned.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Dick Maskin is a very intelligent man. Hands on Man. He may want to talk about the old days, may not. There where alot of things tried on the cleveland, including a fire path on the top of the piston where the spark plug intersected. Yup, the biggest thing was the heads flowed more than any other small block head. Plenty of things to overcome in that cleveland shortblock though.
I am certainly interested in the aussie's views on the oiling. weak point on the cleveland. Theres Dick maskin again......priority main oiling put in his dart blocks.
Look, GM pumped alot of cash at the NHRA, and that helped them with rules so their products performed well against Ford and Chrysler. However, you cant argue with the innovation that occurred and still occurs with GM products, alot of sharp racers out there....most dont talk.
That cleveland Head had soo many things right, designed in the 1960's...canted valves with a 10-11 degree intake valve angle. Big valves (which became hard to control at 9000 rpm due to weight, crappy thin wall casting, no steel crank available.......but still Many guys got them running blazing fast.
keep up the nice work, brings people back to the simpler days....days that corporate sponsorship didnt rule the day
@@harryharry3193 yes sir it would be awesome. I look at this way, I will try and if I can’t get I touch, will try again. If they say no way, no worries keep moving forward. Yes the block is the worst part, no doubt. But we can do things to keep them rocking. Yes the oil mods will be cool and compare to mine. Now a build with modern tech to a point will really make a difference in perfect and durability. Glad your into this channel. Please subscribe and share with your friends. All the racers were trying their hardest to succeed. America was such a different time, we will never get back there again. Stay tuned my friend
My biological father was doing the same thing with AMC heads back in the late 70's on circle track engines...he was the engine builder for a guy here in the midwest who was running at our local track in a late model...this is the honest to god truth ...he ran the entire season and didnt lose a heat,trophy dash for fast qualifiers or feature the entire season at our track and was more than consistent winner at 2 other tracks also . They outlawed his engine at the engine at the end of that year here so he quit running at our track,the closest feature finish all season was one guy who got within a half lap of that car in a 25 lap feature.
@@danielmurphy2164 amc guys like maskin did surgery on lots heads and intake. All impressive. Thanks for watching and please subscribe and share. More to come
Definately great content here!! What I love about the Cleveland is just how much more superior it was to the small block Chevy. It made more power, even when comparing stock to stock...like a Boss 351 to the Chevy LT-1 350, it just murdered every small block that Chevy had back in the day. Bob Glidden was very keen to recognize it's hidden potential.....and in an era of no aftermarket heads or blocks no less!!.
The small block Chevy engine is more popular, and always will be, but from a design standpoint, the Cleveland is worlds ahead of it!!
I agree with you. There is a lot of hidden potential you just have to find out the secrets. Also I think there is no other engine that looks as good as a cleveland, in regards to small blocks. Thanks for watching please share please your friends. Stay tuned.
That's true . Many wears ago I was a kid and I got to talk to a fellow that had a G Gas Monza . He told me that the ford motor was very good . He also had done a lot of work to his heads moving the ports and modifying the chambers . Horse power in made for a large part in the cylinder heads. That and turning the motor a lot of RPM and still making torque. I remember once I was told that going to the bearing size of the 283 small diameter made more hp . That and having a 98 and 99 percent ring seal .
@@jimkillen1065 all good info for sure. The Cleveand has a 2.75 main bearing which helps for sure with rpm. Ring is one of the most important things to maintain. Main issue with cleveland is block flexing and thin cylinder walls. That’s why we fill the water jackets with grout to keep ring seal. Thanks Jim for watching and commenting. Hope your getting into this for sure. Thanks
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I had a Cleveland that had the infamous core shift from casting. It was only bored 30 over but one the cylinders cracked at 6000 rpm that was the end of that motor.
@@dalefrahm9060 I hear you Dale. Not sure why there is such a core shift issue with Cleveands. If there was not, be a different aftermath story. Thanks for watching. Please subscribe and stay tuned
Here in the northwest at PIR in the late 70s (could have been early 80s) at the last national to ever take place there a local guy named Mike Garrett qualified #1 ahead of Glidden and also beat him in eliminations. The remarkable part is that Garrett was running a Cleveland as well and turning it damn near 12k rpm . He'd only get 2 passes out of a motor so he'd come to a race with a 6 pack of em.. the race was on the wide world of sports . I've been looking for it for years but haven't found it. This was a huge deal back then at least locally and the guy was considered a hero around these parts. Later in life I met Mike and started doing crankshafts for him. After he told me the story and showed me an ancient VHS tape of the race it all came back to me . I remembered going to this race with my dad when I was just a little kid. It's truly amazing what you can get when you're willing to buzz an engine that high and don't care if you're throwing parts at it.
Awesome story. Just need the video Pete , that would be wicked. I thought the limit was about 10.5k rpm, 12k and 2 runs must have past the ragged edge. Great stuff
I'd say you're right . 10500 probably is it and that's why Garretts engines only lasted 2 passes @ 12,k . The guy literally had like a thousand aluminum rods in crates around his shop that came out of those motors. He said every single one has loose threads . @@DragBoss351Cleveland
Glidden NEVER used Nitrous Oxide. Everyone else was cheating except Bob and Warren Johnson. The dodge boys, Jerry Eckman most of the field in fact. His sons told him they were all cheating but Bob didn't believe him. So Rusty and Billy took his old probe put nitrous on it and qualified ahead of their dad. Tank was in the weight ballast bar the lines ran through the frame rail to the mid engine plate which was gun drilled. From there it went through the hood scoop mount with a small jet which would give 90 more horsepower. Its been about 30 years so I may have forgotten some details. Anyway after a few races Bob told the NHRA his sons car had nitrous and that most of the field was cheating. They "Tech" couldn't find the nitrous until they showed them how it was hidden.
Thus guy is definitely on point. He has His facts right. If it got out that NHRA couldn't find the nitrous on the majority of the pro stock field, it would have been disasterous for them. Definitely better to sweep it under the rug. Tim, please keep these videos coming, I thoroughly enjoy them. Especially all the technical stuff.
Yes I’ve heard the same fake rumor about Bob Glidden using nitrous. I was like how? Because NHRA made Bob add 200 more pounds of ballast to his race car to help out the Chevy boys. That’s why NHRA went to big blocks because the Cleveland was killing the SBC. We all know that it takes hard work than deep pockets!
@@StainlessTIG2 you are exactly right I heard the same thing, even Glidden said it in an interview.
@@StainlessTIG2 the 351C 4V is the only small block to ever impress me... I am a hard core Pontiac guy, but I own four Clevelands and several sets of heads. First car was a 67 Cougar, I have owned it since 1982, and its getting a 4 bolt Cleveland with a 4" crank and 4V heads, fun daily driver engine with a 234-240@.050/110 cam. The 4V I put a 224/224 comp cam in back in the 80s was a monster, until it chucked a rod in the high mileage short block. Then I started building 400 and 455 Pontiacs, they were easier to find and I didn't need 7000rpm with them, not that my 4V lacked bottom end. It would smoke the tires on the 72 Mustang I had it in from idle just whacking the throttle, mild cam, headers, and a Holley 750 was all I did to it.
The chevy guys in my area hated me, they needed to spend double to four times the money to run what my low buck cars did, the C is amazing, the Pontiac grunts like a 428 FE and the chevy guys can't comprehend it. One of them said my GTO didn't sound like a race car, it sounded like I was going to the store for a loaf of bread. I sold all my FE stuff back in the 90s, it just cost to much to put them in anything, and that was about the time everyone started thinking the W was the best non chevy engine around..
The 455 is good for running 11s with a highway gear in a heavy car and only spending about $2500 to rebuild it. The C makes similar to more HP, with less torque, but man are they light and still easy to work on with good machining and design. If I am running a Ford vehicle, it is probably getting a Cleveland. The sbc just can't hang unless you throw the entire aftermarket at it, and thats to beat the stock C stuff. Kinda hard to find C parts these days though...blocks, cranks, heads, but the aftermarket is there if you want to spend the money. I like to do budget stuff with used parts.
I really enjoy making the chevy guys whine after they talked all big.
Micxjdad is correct about the fake dodge brake in and vandalism of there shop. Dodge couldn't even make the field without nitrous. Also Eckman was also band for a while from NHRA competition.
Yeah bob glidden was a legend in his own time. A true master of his craft. And always a good sport. Long live Bob Glidden 👍🏻🇺🇸😎
He was more than just a racer, a true pioneer in the world of pro stock racing. He was also down to earth and treated his fans the best. Thanks for watching Barry, pleas hang out and see what is next. It will be epic.
Love your show Bob glidden was my hero grownup as a kid. I remember in Seattle at SIR he’s son asked out my cousin lol.
I saw Bob Glidden crash his car in Pomona. I think most were surprised how quickly he emerged from his car and with a towel, covered up the intake manifold. Since there was no fiberglass or anything to cover it, he was enthusiastically trying to shield it from onlookers. I was personally amazed he wasn't injured. He displayed more regard to hiding his intake system.
I know that is crazy. I saw that back in the day. Takes a lot to win, when there’s only a few thousandths between some cars. That was racing. Love the first pro stockers, too. Explore the channel, so much to see. Thanks and stay tuned
He covered it with the "jacket" part of his firesuit, not a towel.
I had 351Cs in the late 80s when I started restoring Mustangs. I have learned a great deal watching your channel. If I ever get another car, it will have another 351C and I am going to use what you've taught me to make it RUN!!! Thank you!
Thanks so much. It makes me feel good that you can come here and learn, and not just be entertained. I try to make both happen. You will get another car, you need that cleveland in it.
Wow that's some declassified Area 51 recon mission type info right there. And I've said it before, it took UTG to open my mind and I've now liked and subbed to this channel. Great job Tim ! Looking forward to more.
Thanks for the great description it was out of this world. Yes stay tuned and we will turn this channel into something from outer space. Much more in store
For the sake of comparison, your C3 heads have to be what is called a "Heart Shaped" chamber. The AFD heads you have, use what is known as a "Kidney Bean" shaped chamber. Over the years, it's been my experience that a Kidney Bean style offers more quench "area" (flat area above piston for better quench) with dual quench pads, for example: added torque and detonation suppression when running unleaded pump fuels. However a Heart Shaped chamber makes better power in race engines, as you are not compressing the mixture behind tbe plug. They also unshroud the valves better. Which style to use is application specific, depending on what you are doing with it. The chamber is just an extension of the port. Chamber shape is a critical part of making power. Hope this helps.
I'm tuning in for the first time , this is amazing, I'm doing heads for my buddies 4.6liter ford , procharger , we are after 2500hp and will achieve it . I am a pro nitrous dragbike guy , my head I built myself. Literally built myself, big block of 7075 , 12 valve 8 plug , I went 6.58 with a single system small jets , my combustion chamber is same concept, pinch the combustion at the plugs , raise the stacks tunnel the air fuel across dimples to 2 large intake valves and out 1 large exhaust valve, I've used the same pinch concept on these car heads and I raised the intake ports and I pushed the plugs a little higher in the combustion chamber, the pinched combustion is right on track ,im impressed with this channel already , I'm excited to see more , I'll drop pics to this channel for you to see I'm doing a lot of what you are talking about and its awesome seeing others doing some of the same stuff , very cool
Jeremy sound like you an innovative for sure. That knowledge is all good and others here appreciate you commenting. Yes 2500hp 4.6 is sick for sure. Thanks for watching and subscribing. Don’t forget to share with your Motörhead buds.
I was such a fan of Glidden as a kid. He was dominant, he drove a Ford, and he seemed like a really smart, and nice guy.
He was the man. He could drive anything. He really took the time to say hi and talk with fans.
Very interested here, thanks for doing this. I bought a 65 fastback in 1975 and a short while latter acquired a complete 351CJ 4 bolt main engine. Of course I was also a devoted Glidden fan, even met him a couple times. My plans were to make that 65 into a Pro Street machine. Being just a kid who barely had any mechanical knowledge and no money that project never got off the ground. After all these years I still have the car and engine, but have the mechanical experience and means to do it this time.
If you're in Maryland anywhere near MIR I would like to offer my help with your project.
Sounds really sweet. Shock towers would be a bitch for header clearance though !!
@@arkhsm I have a set of special headers made by
Tubular Automotive Co. They claim will fit with no shock tower modification. This remains to be untried (mock up) and I'm sceptical, we'll see!
Also got these way back then,
not sure if their still in business.
Thanks for going the extra mile Erik.
You are right about the cylinder heads making the power, the lower end is just a air pump.
Bob was my hero. I meet him and his wife years ago. When I was building Clevelands I was stuffing molding clay in the combustion chamber to get my piston to valve clearance. Old school baby..
Cool Jeff. I usually put mine on the piston top. Whatever works, work it. Thanks. Great man and legend. Talked to Rusty yesterday, he and I are going to do a live chat soon.
the people that are into these old school drag heads are wanting to use this info for todays street cars !
These videos are great. Thanks for putting it together. Not enough quality Cleveland content on CZcams until lately. Cheers from Australia
Thank you. Need more mates from Australia to subscribe and share and tell their experiences of the Cleveland. Stay tuned....
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Especially the Clevos in the Bathurst winning GTHO Falcons of the early '70s !!
@@arkhsm some wicked videos on you tube. Love hearing the engine and shifting and watching the gauges.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland How Alan Moffat did 500 miles solo round that mountain track/road is off the scale skill; not even in a racing seat. His skin was literally being worn/rubbed from his body !!
@@arkhsm have to ck it out. I don’t remember if I saw it? Sound like a rigid SOB.
Lee Shepard heated and welded the L88 heads, Aluminum welding rods, Nice guy as well. Bob and his wife were hard working and smart!
I thought he got solid heads and drilled the water passages. He did weld a ton on them too. Agreed the Gliddens were working machines. Thanks Ron for watching and commenting. Please subscribe and share with your friends. Stay tuned
That is amazing 40+ years ago. No computers and super flow machines and electronics Just true HP from what THEY could do !!! It is awesome to see that. Thanks for the video
You’re welcome Ron. Amazing what they did back in the day with nothing in regards to technology of today. Real pioneers and innovators.
Always been a Chevy guy with the exception of the Cleveland, it's always been a favorite of mine
Cleveland always my favorite too.
Glidden took so many secrets to the grave. Changing immediately with the rules gave him his biggest edge. I talked with him once in '88, he was buttoning up his probe. Told him I recently drove through Whiteland, he said "You did?" Came over and talked to me like he'd known me all his life. I became one of his biggest fans.
Yes sir, treat people the way that you want to be treated. thanks for stopping by, please hang out, and subscribe. more to come.
Love Bob and his family, a true gentleman at the drag strip.
No doubt about that Pete.
I have a 1971 351c cj i have had it since 1990 its supoosed to be a low mile engine it came out of a wrecked cop car that was wrecked in 72 and the motor was stored ever since but being a kid i had to tear it down to do a overhaul and the project got side lined and in the core of all the years and all the moving i somehow lost the pistons and connecting rods but no big deal i plan now to finish it one for all time so i plan on getting a set of H beam rods and new everthing else then stuff it in my 79 capri rs or my 69 Cougar xr7 but your channels has revived my enthusiasm for the project
Thanks man. I have a lot of info, look through all the old vids, over 100. Plenty of good tips in there. Glad your back into it. Stay tuned and you pick up a lot of info.
Bob Glidden had heard from Ulrey brothers also from Indiana that the 352 FE hi po head chamber really worked well on the FE. This is pre 427. The brothers ran a White 61 or 62 galaxie. Mike Ulrey showed me the pictures of it when telling the story. I would bet Bob being the smart guy he is researched the chamber as to why it worked better. Bob took that to the next level. It helps the air flow around the seat/valve when shaped. I also remember Bob talking in a small restaurant in WI about how he was making the 429 wedge heads work better than the Boss 429 heads. I remembered it well because my mind 🤯. Bob's greatest asset was not his wallet. It was his relentless drive and work ethic. Through hard work. He would find a small improvement on something. Then putting a few of them together making large gains. I watched him drill a hole in his four link mount at the track that crossed into the adjoining holes! Just so the car would hook up a bit better. When other racer's would have picked one hole or the other. Making the revised mount next race. That's what made him a legend. His Plymouth Arrow and why he made that car was funny.
Create history hot rod, Love hearing these innovative stories. I believe it, heard some more stories about the 429 heads, also how he reworked the boss 429 heads for pro stock, before AR Hemi. Even that head he reworked exhaust as per Rusty. Great to hear the stories and history. I appreciate you sharing with us.
A guy here in Australia told me years ago that Chamber work similar to what your showing was good for 50-60 hp alone on a flow bench.So imagine what the correct piston,cam and intake could do plus......the torque increase. Cheers from Oz
Thanks Mate, I can dig exactly what you are saying. Phenomenal increase right there, that was his advantage, I have seen similar but not quite that modern shape. Darin Morgan said that combustion chamber shape with 25ftlbs. Glad your here from Down Under. Wait until you see the interview I did with Trickie, pretty cool, glad your here please share with your mates....
Sure miss Bob...........He was a great guy, would always see him running around town as just an every day guy like you and me.
that's the way I look at him too, just an average run around guy, who lived to race, and included his family. I appreciate you commenting, and please subscribe. and hang out...More to come.
Back in my racing days, 80's-early 90's the Cleveland was my choice of motors. It is true they are more expensive to build, but if done right you have a beast of a motor. Thank you Bob for all your insight about the 351 Cleveland. RIP
Hell Yeah! If you know their quirks, and build around that, can't beat them. Yes sir, Thank you Bob G, RIP
I loved when they cut off the exhaust side of the head completely and put a plate in ported to move the exhaust up from the stock location so the 4v head could actually flow. I think that may have had more to do with it than modifying the port area... but I could be wrong. Back in the 90s when I was still bracket racing I saw a ford ranger with a Glidden cleveland engine mounted in the bed... knew it instantly from the cut off exhaust and it was confirmed by the owner. Very cool tech ideas to overcome the few limitations that engine had from the factory.
I know. So much innovation back then. Thanks for watching and please subscribe and share with your friends. Hang out for a while.
reher morrison did the same with their big blocks, glidden probably did it first tho
@@travispfannmuller7717 Shepard, also took a head from GM, that was solid, without water passages, so he could radically surgerize every aspect. Weld it all back together, and drill their own water passages. David Rerher also told me the cylinders would fill up with water overnight, they would have to blow them out every morning before race day.
I was always curious to What Glidden did for his combustion Chambers... he was waaay ahead of his time...and a Great Engine Developer... Thanks Tim for all the Cool info...👍👍👊🇺🇸🇺🇸
Thanks Frankie, love your continental, it rules. Some of the mystery solved. Stay tuned for much more.
Dude, your work is amazing! I love vintage ProStock... I would love to see a vintage ProStock class based around the early rules!
That would be really cool
So would I Andy, it would be a dam interesting class, all old school..Hope your doing well my friend.
It would be far better than current NHRA Pro Stock.
@@johnwilburn I have to agree with you. I have no interest in current Nhra pro classes. Too much technology and computers. I am just old school. Please subscribe and share with your friends and much more in store.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Not to mention, it'd be Clevelands kick butt...part 2 !!
Because of the drag racers around 1967 I put an HVAC duct box on the hood of my 1963 Plymouth Valiant for more air, I was 16. Then I built a sheet metal and tubing manifold for a 1969 Triumph Spitfire to run a two barrel Carter ( I think ) because the SU's were toast and it bogged until 4000 and then took off like a scared rabbit, that was about 1975. Still doing weird shit to this day with a 5.0 1970 MGBGT Widebody. Thanks Bob and you DragBoss.
You are welcome Dan, appreciate it. Sounds like you have got lots of unique combos and experience. Thanks for coming aboard. Hope you subscribed.
Great video.Something that doesn't get mentioned anymore is that Glidden couldn't get the sponsorship he wanted from Ford for the '77 season (if I'm not mistaken of the year) so he switched to a small block Plymouth Arrow and won the championship in it.Can you imagine the short term R&D to accomplish that ? After they pooped their pants,Ford gave Bob a great deal for the next season !
Yes Tim your right, it was 79 when he switched to Mopar, and he won the championship too. 340 inch mopar. He said Chrysler paid him and supplied loys of parts too.
Jon Kasse was modifying heads like these in the early 70's in Cleveland. He went to work with Dyno Don and the rest is history.
Yes sir Frank. History is something we never want to forget. I hope I can get these high port Cleveland’s breathing fire again. Thanks for watching and please subscribe my friend.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Jon & I went to Case together. Jon & his buddy Bill Rolf were real innovators. I was interning with GM at the Chevy plant when Jon started to modify cylinder head trees to change the flow on skirt the rules. A set of Kasse heads were good for a couple of tens. The big difference was they looked stock. As i was told as a young engineer our modifications were creative engineering on Sunday but cheating on Monday if we got caught.
@@franknosko6215 Jon grew up and raced with my engine builder Donn Rhode, who died during my 409 build. You can see my video for details. Jon was going to help me build the all aluminum Cleveland block into 427 ci. But later we talked and he said he just could not do it with working 68 hrs a week and building a new shop. I was really disappointed. But I understand. He was so easy to talk to. That is cool history Frank for sure, thanks for sharing.
@@franknosko6215 That's awesome. Kaase seems like a really nice guy always spreading the credit around versus people like Gale Banks, who obviously knows his stuff, constantly reminding you how great he is. I would work for either for free just to be able to pick their brain but I think I would enjoy working for Kaase a lot more and probably learn more in the process.
Great video!, I managed machining/engine build for a major Nascar Team(Roush), you are correct, you cylinder heads are your first source to gain "hp", followed by your intake. I've machined/built engines/dyno endless motors, it's all about your "heads".
Welcome Paul, appreciate you taking the time to comment and contribute. Sound like you been there for sure. When did you work for roush, or are you still working for them. Share some of your thoughts with us. The heads dictate the power for sure.
I think part of the reason we have seen such a massive jump in power output over the past 20 years is because the internet has created an avenue for people like Glidden to share their knowledge and skills and to learn from others as well. It's a lot easier to make progress when you know for certain that doing this works but do that doesn't. Something that Glidden and people like him had to figure out on their own a lot of times.
So true the ease of communication with the net built up a huge knowledge base. And information is at the touch of your fingers. back then they did not share certain aspects of their technology, that’s why they were at the front of the line. Very few people knew that Bob was modifying his heads to this degree. And your right it is the basis for most modern combustion chambers when you compare them. It makes all the difference in the world to be able to avoid the same mistakes and waste money. Hopefully I can convey the same about building a Cleveland based off my experiences to you guys. Thanks for watching and contributing to my channel, 👍
The reason we have the high HP engines of today is because of guys that worked for & mentored under Glidden, Grumpy, "The Professor" Warren Johnson & all the other GR8s from the 70s & 80s, Dick Maskin, Bill Mitchell, John Kaase, etc, & the GR8 NASCAR engine builders too. The internet had little to do with it. Computer "simulations" help with ideas but fail as often as they are correct. The "common theory" may or may not be correct. Reher & Morrison told my buddy that he used the "wrong" Dart CNC heads on his 555 Chevy. When he sent them a time slip, their reply was that his engine made 50 HP more than their 555. That was even before he ran a 7.97/168 in Phoenix with 4,000ft Alt Air Density with his ALL MOTOR mid-80s Cutlas on race gas & a single Pro Systems carb, No juice, NO huffer & NO hair dryers!.
This is such a great series and the work that you put into finding out all this information is amazing. I love that someone is excited about Cleveland heads and engines as I am!!!! Ok, you got me beat on this but I love what you are doing.
Thanks Scott I missed this comment, thanks for stopping by. I sure do get crazy about them Clevelands, glad your into, make sure you subscribe, so you don't miss anything.
To be honest I am a chevy guy thru and thru but I am an engine guy and I am 46 so you are talking about racers I've either watched growing up or seen in person when I was old enough to go to Beach Bend in Bowling Green Ky. Point is that regardless of ford or whoever engine anything got my attention. The fact it helps explain what they were doing with them when I watched them is all a big bonus!
I like all engines and me being 55, I know exactly what you mean. I was also just getting into racing in mid 70s. Glad you like my channel my friend. Stay tuned.
Well it is like the 55-57 cars. Back in the day, yeah a 57 Chevy was glorious to see. Today, I'd rather eyeball a 55-57 Pontiac or Olds or even a Buick. Knowing they had a harder time to make it out alive...
@@kramnull8962 I do like 55 Chevy, with tunel ram and 2 fours. Stick car. Yep
My boss milled a bunch of material off the exhaust side of those heads and made a piece of aluminum and bolted it in place with allen bolts to recurve the exhaust to flow straight out instead of down filled some of the intake with putty that hardend and recurved the intake plus other things , run stack injection, chevy rods .made 750 hp. On the dyno, i saw the sheets !!
Who was your Boss? Great mod if you can deal with fitment and headers. Cool story. Thanks for sharing
Bob is my hero. I even have Etta’s autograph from beech bend in 76’.
They were “The Team”. First family of drag racing. Thanks
Already looking forward to what's next. Keep pumping them out!!
Glad your here, appreciate it.
Bob
One of the true ford guys
That will be missed and is missed
So true john, thanks for watching and commenting. Wait until you see my next video, premiers at 7pm, make you subscribe, so you don’t miss it. Thanks
I just watched a few vintage races on YT, I knew Glidden won Championships but I didn't know he was THAT dominant. I'm glad you stumbled across his secret and made a video.
Thanks man, he had to be making 825-40, with 343 ci. He was the man. Hoped you subscribed
I ran 351 Cleveland engines in my '69 & 71 Mach 1s and '69 Cougar. Those were very good drag race engines. Ton's of torque low and midrange and horsepower at the top.
Yep you just have to set them up right. I bet those were cool cars for sure.
Radiusing The Valve Seat .500... ✅ Is also One of the Biggest Improvement's
I, appreciate you, Dragboss! Keep the uploads, coming!
I sure will, just trying to make the time. I hope you share, really want to build this into something mo one else has in regards to content.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland You, definitely have, a great channel! I, love your enthusiasm, for the 351C! My favorite, Ford engine!
@@strokermaverick thanks my friend. Glad you enjoyed it. Trying to keep the Cleveland alive. More in store, so stay tuned.
And then came the 2Vclose chamber heads from Australia designed for the 302.
No-one thought to put them on a 351 because of detonation.. But..... They worked like a charm with the rite machining.
I know all about them, to a point but never knew anyone that ran them. I would think they would be like filled intake ports. What machine work do they need to work so to speak? Thanks for watching and please subscribe and share with your friends, much more in store.
Fords intended of use the canted valves Cleveland heads, and then chamber modifications were all getting that flame front in the middle of the piston so your burn was more complete, longer rod motors help keep the piston at the top of the bore longer for better dwell time, helps extend the burn time for more power in two valve arrangements. Without going to a hemispherical piston arrangement, you can still make some interesting power figures with the Cleveland engines. N351 heads were quite popular with road racing, obviously no canted valve arrangement for WIndsor style application, but all the other stuff is there for high flow numbers, flame path etc...
Yes all good info to learn and see on this channel. Thanks for watching and contributing. I have seen those N heads make close to 800hp. Make sure you subscribe so you don’t miss anything. Thank you.
Oh my god this is so interesting stuff! I understand all that work perfectly. I’ve always been kinda like that type of a guy myself. I like to test and tinker, I’ve never been a “bolt-on” type of a dude, and those “bolt-on” dudes don’t like me at all! 😁😂
Bob is a hero to me.
Yes all good stuff. Glad your checking out the channel some cool stuff. Yep lots of bolt ons stay and check it out. Yes Gliddens all great people for sure thanks for watching
The natural order of things is The chevys are faster than any ford. So when a ford wins a race he must be cheating.
In an interview with glidden,he claimed at every race NHRA Would force him to add weight to this car.
But you've finally got my attention.ive searched for years for gliddens secrets.
Keep up the great work.
I heard years ago that Bob glidden's sons were trying to get him to put nitrous on his car because everyone else was doing it, but he wouldn't do it.
The NHRA weight penalty was definitely one of the tactics designed to keep Glidden out of the winners circle but it was in the official rule book and applied to ALL Pro Stock competitors running Ford canted valve (Cleveland) cylinder heads.
Thanks Doug for watching glad your into my channel. Thanks for watching and stay tuned for much more.
@Hey Yo I just bought the pro stock secret book. Can’t wait to read it. Thanks For Watching and knowing your history
Another sorry loser Chevy fan
I bought a 74 Mustang ll from a Tim Halstead, younger brother of Bob in 79-80. Also my Grandfather worked on 351 C at Ford Dyno Lab, retired as head in 75, so I have fond memories of Ford Engineering Complex.
Very cool. It was a different Tim Halstead lol. That is cool about your grandfather be nice to hear some stories. I have driven by there many times. Thanks for watching please subscribe, hang out
Don't forget that Glidden and other Pro Stock racers were running engines that were only about 340 or so cubic inches. Getting high compression is very difficult in this situation where the cam is large and the valve reliefs have to be pretty deep. I'd say that he probably used welding so that his domes could be smaller for a given compression ratio.
Dave McLain you bring up another good point. I had almost forgotten about their combinations being such a small displacement.
I've seen tubing embedded in the hood focused above the carbs , the tubing had holes drilled in it ..this was in the mid 70's , guys would jury rig the radiator with tubing leading to the base plate of the carb..the contents inside the line was alcohol.. this served as a anti detonation.
Interesting. I have never heard or seen that. Be cool to see some pics. Thanks for commenting and please subscribe. Hang out for a bit.
Awesome 💪🏼🏁 , Just luv the oem old school Clevo stuff. Whoever can rework the original go-fast parts & make the most HP is king 👑 🏁...... expensive aftermarket goodies is almost too easy nowadays 🤷🏼♂️
I remember watching Bob at Brainerd with a friend, who was a Chevy guy. Bob and Lee Sheperd were tearing through the rounds and it looked like we were going to get a Ford vs Chevy final. Then Bob red lighted in the quarters or semis. I ended up buying the beer that night.
Cant win them all. So they say, must have been the time of your life.
Glidden's Fairmont was great! I owned a 1983 Fairmont Futura coupe for a while myself!😁👍🛠️
I sure want to build a pro stock for Mark. One project at a time stay tuned. Glad you like this Billy, what did you run in your Fairmont?
I love how the nostalgia stuff is coming back and in many ways guys are starting their own classes ims seeing more and more around here. A bit out of my price range but my car is set up like a mid 70's super stock car. Which isn't as cool because it just looks like an average muscle car but the parts and lots of the work and tricks are true to period. I have seen your videos and you got some cool shit. Great content.
Thank you for stopping in. Make sure you subscribe because getting 409 c dine and to the dyno. Also new fuel system. Love the average muscle car. All have style. Thanks and stay tuned
There was a guy up in Canada I think in the late 70s named Dieters he had a 70 cougar with a 351 Cleveland modified. For the longest time he was undefeated in the street racing did finally took a big block 396 Chevy to shut him down and that was only cuz deiters missed a gear
There's a video of him street racing his Cougar against a 69 Camaro.
Yes that is one of my favorite vids, Love that Cougar. It was actually part of the Ford Drag Team, from Canada, Barry Poole and gang.
Yessir...and he wasn't the only one doing it....Mickey Thompson and Roland Leong were doing that in the seventies too but they were modifying Boss 9 heads and Cammer heads....I only know because I used to own a MT/RL 427 cammer and that's what the combustion chambers looked like. They were obviously welded and ground to that shape....I knew it to be the heart shaped combustion chamber. I'm not 100 percent sure if that's the correct term...
Thats just what Roland called them.... Now, that particular engine is in the Ford Racing Museum. Cool stuff, brother. Love your videos. Blue Oval Bunch, Baby!!!
Thanks for watching and commenting. Please subscribe. That is something I never knew, that they were welding and machining combustion chambers on those motors. The shape is cartoid, so someone had pointed out. Glad you here, please subscribe and like 👍
I remember the first time I saw the intake manifold on Maskin and Kanners AMC. It wasn’t a thing of beauty and I thought what is that all about. It worked and they were very competitive at that time. When Glidden was running the small blocks at one race our pit was at the finish line. In qualifying at that race he was pushing in the clutch before the finish lime and still had over 2 tenths on the field. He was so dominate at that time.
Great history to hear thanks for sharing with us. Maskin was the first to run a sheet metal intake from what Darin Morgan told me. And in 1980 Bob was running one too. I have heard the stories of Glidden pulling the chute at the 1000….
Can't wait to find out about Cleveland oiling
I made a vid of the theory so to speak. Working on in depth vid next. Think you will really like it.
last time i checked quench / squish had to do with the distance at tdc between the top of the piston and the non chamber area of the head. get that number tight to .018 ish and then detonation doesn't really exist, pour the timing and coals to it as you will. but ? the epa then becomes concerned about NOX..... nuff said... enjoy all....
Tha is Jason to me it is the flat top of the piston and head distance. You are correct, tighter the better, that .018 is pretty dam close. I like it. I also like pouring the coal to her, great analogy. Thanks for watching and commenting and stay tuned for more.
Or hey, for a car build a replica of John Lingenfelters Cleveland powered Monza. I know he wasn’t Pro Stock but still a unique car just the same. Man, love all the Cleveland stuff, thanks for your time in showing all this to us👍
Hey you never know Although really love maverick or Fairmount. But need to see how it all come around. Your welcome. Share and help me build my channel.
I have always been a small block Pro-Stock fan. I remember an article (I think it was in a Popular Hot Roding "engines" special edition) that talked about the Gapp and Rousch 351C pro stock engine making 702 HP (2 horsepower per cubic inch). The article had all kinds of Cleveland tips and tricks, oil system, dome shapes, hi port plates etc.,etc. It was a totally awesome article.
I think I remember that too. That pretty serious hp per cube. If you find it share it with us.
His intakes were a Huge Secret as well. He was known to keep them covered at all times and all cost to keep eyes off of them.
So true. That was his hours and hours of blood, sweat, and tears. Thanks for watching and commenting. Please subscribe and share. Hang out for a while, lots to come.
Sooo right @DakFink he was the man,, I hated what the NHRA did to this fine gentleman, oneof My hero’s growing up,, he called out those Cheaters, using Nitrous , I remember they ( Broadcasts) wouldn’t even go in the pits to cover him it’s the reason why I don’t support the NHRA anymore, I don’t even turn the TV on them whenever they are on!! Glad Billy Glidden is still Repping the Family Business!!! Thanks
Thanks Ricardo, he was my hero too. That whole nitrous deal was way out of hand. Especially with the mopar boys explosion at National trail. I don’t even watch tv anymore, at least for the last 11 years. Thanks for watching and please subscribe and help my build this channel. Stay tuned.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I have subscribed, no worries, I love your content and you have my support!!❤️
@@ricardocorbie6803 thank you my friend. I appreciate it. Trying to get back up to speed. Stay tuned
They kinda remind me of the shape of the Trickflow Twisted Wedge 225R's from TEA. Which are called a wedge head 15* intake and 17* exhaust valves. Obviously these are a step up, but I see similarities
no doubt. TEA are some serious heads, I think they only do Windsor, inline stuff?
From my research they used to call them Kidney bean shaped combustion chambers, Awesome video mate.
Thanks my friend. The correct term is cortiod. I never knew it. I called it the same. Stay tuned for Trickie to come aboard with a video interview. All good stuff. Thanks for watching and please share.
I don't know how I stumbled upon this channel, but I sure am glad I did! Great stuff! I could talk about this for days!
You welcome. We all could so join in, lots of cool vids to check out and stay tuned. Subscribe and share
Loved going to Darlington for the Winter nationals in the late 80s watching the mad scientist bust all the dodge & Chevy asses !👍🤣
I bet those were the days for sure. Never be like again. Great memories Kram Thanks for watching and commenting. Don’t forget to subscribe 🏁
Have you seen the wreck Glidden got into, he gets out of the car first thing he does is take his jacket off and covered up the engine, He didn't want people to see the intake
Keeping his hard work safe, not spray.
I was in the grandstands at Atlanta Dragway the day that Bob had his accident. Being a huge Glidden fan, I had a serious concern for his safety when the car flipped but when he got out and immediately concealed what he had worked so hard to achieve, I knew all was well.
Yeah I was watching that race. I never missed NHRA racing back then. God I remember sitting on the edge of my seat, Bob Glidden vs Lee Shepherd in the 1983 NHRA Gator Nationals or the Us Nationals. I might be wrong about my dates, but that was the Ford vs Chevy rivalry back then before Lee Shephard passed away. I’d be like, come on Glidden put it on that Chevy! Great Pro Stock racing back then. It’s just sad that NHRA Pro Stock has turned into a spec engine class. Fords dominating the Factory Stock Showdown class!
@@StainlessTIG2 yes those were the days. Never be like that again. Your experience is something that you will never forget. Keeps you young and it is cool to step back in time when you can. More to come John.....
Raised intake ports.
I saw Bob Glidden race his Fairmont at the Winstons at Cayuga Dragway and had the pleasure of talking with him.
Very cool. You guys talk about anything in particular, racing, Chevy? Ford?
Bob was great, I had Clevelands back in the 70s and early 80s, I talked to him at indy one year about the work he did on the Cleveland heads, and he told me it too 40 to 50 hours of welding per head to make the horsepower he made. Also after he quit racing he helped develop the early Yates heads, makes you think doesn't it.
I believe it for sure. Did he tell he worked on the Yates head? I had Larry Wallace on a live chat, and he worked with Richard Yates, in developing the Yates head.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I know he was a "consultant " is what he described
@@No1414bodyOk, never heard then or forgot he mentioned Bob Glidden..
D.B. .............supposedly he did not use a engine stand ,it stressed the engine ,a lot of distortion from behind , I read it back in the day ???????
Can you imagine the stress on the block. Hauling it cross country to races in the back of a trailer hanging on a engine stand. We use to pump up truck tire tubes to keep the flex and cracked welds out of our front engine dragster.
He built motors sitting on 44 gallon drums.
@@johncarter7630 J.C. .............thats a new one on me , but since you said it , that makes a lot of sense a bunch of small stress for hours on end add up !!!!!!!!
I have been trying to research this online and the information is really scattered. What years were the Clevelands used in Pro Stock and NASCAR? How did they do each year and what was the competition? It would be cool to see the engine rules and vehicle weight too. If the NHRA and NASCAR would make the historic information more readily available, interest would grow. Likewise I live in Concord, NC which is the home of Z-Max Dragway. When you watch a Pro Stock race, at the track or on TV, there is no information on the engines and the rules. Fans want to know. It makes things more interesting for motorheads.
I couldn't agree with you more, as I tried to find out how much Bob's Fairmont weighed, but could not find an actual number; when I was trying to use a horsepower calculator online. His et and mph are on record, but I couldn't get the car weight !!
Im building a 351C right now with Open Chamber 4V heads and im going to use Trick Flows EFI Upper and Lower intake. Ive never seen anyone do a full 351C EFI and test it. Idk if Im putting it in my '80 Fairmont or 86 'Thunderbird but I love your channel. Keep it up!!
Cool deal. Have seen throttle body stuff but never Port injected. Great cars, the one to use will tell you. Fairmont 😉
I just finished watching and you have hit a subject near and dear to my heart .... I know my tag says autobody specialists but in a previous life i was a cylinder head porter and engine builder ... there's something you haven't touched on at all and is pretty important to youur story. i don't recall exactly what year it was but give or take a year around 1986 the Elliotts in NASCAR and Glidden in NHRA had something in common and that was the 351C motor. there was a cylinder head porter unlike any other i had had spoken with because he introduced the term "Swirl" into the vocabulary of everyone who worked on cylinder heads. in essence what it meant was to deliver the combustion chamber and the floor of the combustion chamber the most homogeneous air/fuel mixture possible and that was done through the research of studying wet airflow. If you correctly use the entry angle of the port keep the mixture from separating you can achieve a few important things, firstly you reduce the tendency to detonate or "knock" the engine, second you speed up the flame front and thus can reduce the amount of ignition timing needed to achieve peak cylinder pressure during the burn, you can also compress the mixture tighter without the tendency to knock the engine, you can consume less fuel thus decreasing drastically your brake specific fuel consumption for a given achieved horsepower level and lastly as i quickly think about this subject from years gone by you decrease exhaust gas temp exiting the cylinder head. I had the pleasure of having a man by the name of Larry W. (i wouldn't release his full name without his permission) he took me under his wing for a few letters and phone calls and he acted as a tutor to me teaching me the secrets to high swirl porting ... i raced a circle track car and had very little money to compete with much better funded operations so i could only beat them with my knowledge . i was taught that the secret to this type of cylinder head is to study the design of diesel cylinder heads and diesel engines. it was a quest i was on for two years and with much success.... my engines ran a compression ratio of 15.4 :1 on 110 VP race gas they ran camshafts with wild cam timing for the time period that they were built in (1985 & 1986) and BSFC number that were HALF! and lastly we ran an acceleration test on a dyno and the engine was able to accelerate from 5500 rpm to 8500 rpm faster than any other engine it competed with. ... if you would like a real world modern cylinder head to study refer to a honda accord cylinder head or a honda civic head, there you will find a TON of useful examples of the effects of swirl in cylinder head design. The mans name is Larry W. and his company was called Endyne. they were in Texas in 1986. The mans a genius and HE was definitely a factor to the elliotts and gliddens success .... my opinion. he never got the proper credit for it.
Thanks for such a great synopsis. You are so right. Larry Widmer is a magician with heads and has done a tone of Cleveland and Honda’s. He merged with Mast Motorsport, and Darin Morgan who does my head work has known Larry for years. Your so right on the movement of air/ fuel molecules and the “swirl” is contributory to improvement of the combustion process as you mention. So glad you took the time to comment here on my channel. Thanks for checking out my channel, there is so much more and more to come. Thanks and please subscribe and share with your friends.
High swirl combustion chambers and tight squish and quench is the key to power. The modern heads from all OEMs have really efficient chambers to reduce emissions and improve power. The Pro Stock and Nascar stuff from back in the day was phenominal.
A nice Bob Gliddens story he blew all his shit up and he used my mate shop in Houston to do an overnite fix, showed him everything he needed etc,then Bob said I need 1 more favor,I need you to leave!
That would have been an epic event for sure. I wonder what other secrets he had up his sleeve with his individual engine components. Thanks Colin.
What was the shop? I’ve lived in Houston all my life. I’m 50.
@@matthewnosal6893 Nickens Brothers.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland that's why he wanted him to leave!😉
@@colinmunro7337 I remember going to Nickens shop back in the late 80’s he has some small block on the dyno at the time. 10k rpm. Crazy stuff. His shop is in Conroe now. They do all the machine work on my Fords. Fixing to take my Cleveland up there in a month or two. They do amazing work.
Thanks for the information. I love Bob Glidden. He was a great asset.
No doubt! don't forget to subscribe, and share with your engine buds, thanks for watching.
Man i cant tell you how cool it is that you are talking about this my uncle back in the 70s my cousin i had one of the most kick but clevlands. indy motors is what originaly they were designed for is what we understood?Never the less quench chambered heads were the deal.Mickeyblueyes
Glad you stopped by to check it out, Pro stock mania Mickey. Lots more to come. They were really made for NASCAR originally. Explore the channel, and don't forget to like and subscribe...Stay tuned.
Not to knock any effort on the ford guys and the Amount of work it took to make there heads work but the A M C guys had it worse. I believe they were cutting heads in Half and porting them then welding them back together again while raising the ports to create flow. This was covered a book that talk about How to make horsepower with a A M C . Informative book . Lots of effort
No worries John. I don’t offense to that at all. You are exactly right radical surgery for sure. I may try to call maskin and get some info and maybe an interview. Don’t forget to subscribe and share. Stay tuned