Why Vegeta Was STRONGER Than Goku In The Cell Saga
Vložit
- čas přidán 24. 04. 2023
- In this video @LSMMIKE explains Why Vegeta Was STRONGER Than Goku In The Cell Saga of Dragon Ball Z.
INSTAGRAM:
tinyurl.com/ybs3al2l
TikTok: / lsmmike
Make sure to SUBSCRIBE & ENABLE NOTIFICATIONS to see ALL of my videos right away, when they come out! - Krátké a kreslené filmy
If I had to guess, I would say it's because Vegeta trained harder than Goku did in those 3 years. Goku spent his 3 years training with Piccolo and Gohan, who both saw huge leaps in power. Piccolo went from being about as strong as 2nd form Frieza to Super Saiyan level, but Goku himself didn't see very many gains. If I had to guess, it was because he was training with weaker people who didn't push him.
Vegeta, on the other hand, spent three years training at over 400 times gravity and in space. He was just much more motivated than Goku was. Imagine plotting revenge against Frieza, the man who subjugated/killed your entire family, your race, and your planet, only to be killed by him yourself and have to place your faith in someone else. Not only that, but have some random stranger show up later and kill him with a power you have craved your whole life. Vegeta seeing Trunks and Goku as Super Saiyans lit a fire under him not only to be a Super Saiyan himself but to be the strongest in the universe.
This makes the most sense
^ This.
This guy right here, has a PhD in the mid-eras of DBZ.
By the way, we saw in DBS how Vegeta's training in Yardrat increased his base strength alone.
I bet Goku's base got stronger as well from his time on Yardrat after Frieza Saga (though I wonder how much in comparison to Vegeta much later on in DBS).
Makes me wonder "How strong would Androids-Saga SS Vegeta had been if he also had the benefit of Yardrat training in addition to the 3 years of training?"
It actually kinda makes 18 breaking his arms seem a little horseshit
That makes sense.
training solo can help tho. without gravity chambers but its like training in the room of spirit n time. rosat. u train solo there also. n get huge gains...
who knows what off screen training goku and piccolo might have done. i know piccolo prob did his meditation thing at night. so they could have buff'd
piccolo n goku more.especially goku. but it was a way to make vegeta's first time acending to super saiyan something special. how underwhelmling would it be if he just turned ss but was still weaker then goku ss. lol.
but ya its weird it was so hard for vegeta to turn super saiyan the firs time. by saiyan warrior race standards he was deff the one who should
have attained the form first. being the strongest saiyan aside from broly on his planet. then fighting everyday of his life. gettin zenkais. which
sadly only kicked in after his battle with goku. they had to keep vegeta weak for goku and others to shine. u can feel vegetas pain n anger for real!!
that panel with goku and gohan coming out is so damn cool. one of the best panels in dragon ball honestly. not everything has to be action to be sick, and that panel evokes the perfect amount of anticipation we needed for goku, and even more so for gohan.
DBZ: training nonstop for 3 years will lead to the most gains
DBZ some episodes later: training nonstop for a year will kill your gains
Goku got excellent gains because he got exposed to 10-100 times gravity, got beat up and rejuvenated over and over. He went from 8-9k to over 100 million in a year. Vegeta had access to the best food, medical equipment, and training equipment money could buy. If he stole a rejuvenation chamber from a Frieza planet, he'd get the best gains in 3 years. Constant training without fair rest kill gains no matter how long you train.
Well in trunks case he was inexperienced with the grade 2 form without realizing it,s drawbacks, vegeta already knew it's weakness.
*DBS:* Training for a day can make Freeza go from barely SSJ-tier to ASSJ-tier.
@@deckzone3000 Without that training he wouldn't be able to transform. Rather his transformation wouldn't be as strong as it was when he fought Frieza.
Depends on what they're trying to train. In this case they were just trying to gain more power. The next case (HTC) they were trying to reach the next level, but they had to first master the form and lessen the strain the form puts on the body.
When we talk about Vegeta becoming pure of heart, I always think of it more in a sense of buddhism and temporary enlightenment. Enlightenment can be a moment or a realization, it doesn’t really have an eternal status unless you are THE buddha. I think he had moments of pure and genuine love, and that is what condones his overall change.
Yeah, its not necessarily about morality. Its supposed to mean clearheaded and singular, which is Goku's personality.
No.
Moments of pure genuine love might be a bit of a stretch. If that's suppose to be aimed towards Bulma and Trunks at that time? Even less so, after all this was the same guy who basically ignored Bulma and Baby Trunks getting shot down by Gero, and Future Trunks called him out on it.
Like in that period I don't see how that could be the case.
@@Naruku2121 Maybe so!
This video on Vegeta puts the biggest smile on my face. Vegeta is one of my all time favorite DBZ characters.
I think they were equal, at least in the Android Saga. While Goku already had 1 year worth of training on Yardrat when he returned to earth, Vegeta trained much harder than Goku in the 3 years of preparations for the androids, with 450x gravity and all.
I honestly agree.
Android saga Vegeta was stronger...19 had Kakarot's energy plus his own and Vegeta still washed him..I think coming back from the virus then going straight to the chamber and training with Gohan widened the gap between them after that
also dem late late nite after intense work out sessions with dat bulma.....
😊😆👌
@@Marcus_shawn Goku was already at a small fraction of his power while fighting 19, so he didn't get to absorb a lot of ki. It's not explicit how depleted Goku was, but Piccolo did say that his real power was nowhere close to what he used against 19. Plus, Vegeta stopped 19 before he could even absorb all of what Goku had left.
Vegeta definitely surpassed Goku at this point according to either Piccolo or Gohan, but 19 definitely wasn't able to assimilate all of Goku's ki.
@@Marcus_shawn you realize Goku had that heart virus I wonder why everybody ignore that most important detail
Thanks for putting this together!!! Was waiting for this video!
Knocking out these videos man! Glad to see you found your alspark!
Love these old-school videos, LSM!! Keep them coming! I'd love you to see you dig even deeper and go into the DB portion of the manga.
1:00 Vegeta's shoe size? "Size 9, please"
Great video!! I've always wondered that as well. Keep up the great content 🔥🔥🔥
Goku and vegeta were leap frogging each other
No sasuke and naruto was after Goku left the time chamber Vegeta never leaped him again and Goku when mocked Vegeta saying he way stronger than him when he and Gohan got out the time chamber
@@roxasbaker think about this though, for the majority of shippuden sasuke was stronger, and if not it was because he didnt unlock a new sharingan move lmao, however sage naruto was definetely on top of sasuke in that time period and later on, kurama chakra mode
@@JeromeProductions my bad forgot to mention Vegeta did past Goku in super when he went to train with whis for 6 months while Goku was on earth doing farming work
@@roxasbaker yep. His super saiyan 2 against beerus was stronger than super saiyan three goku because of how much he mastered it. And his super saiyan blue evolution form is stronger than gokus blue unless he uses kaioken, then of course has a stronger base form as we’ve seen from their training during Superhero.
I love you are making videos again Mike.
Well Prince Vegeta has always bigger stronger since he met Son Goku, but Goku would always be ahead of him in the end
What?
@@socialistbatman1211 dont act dumb dude one word missing and you cant use context to figure out what hes saying? or just a grammer police type guy?
They sling shot off each other power wise
It’s pretty clear their potential for power is the same
@@kamalvelmurugan4875 yeah but Goku having Kaio-Ken and masters always gave him a advantage
I was convinced Vegeta had actually surpassed Goku because of the strain and brutality of his training. And I never doubt the instincts of Piccolo who had declared it as well.😅
Great video
Love the content my dude!
This is one of Vegeta's best moments as he finally beats Goku as a ssj reason being he worked on his base form tremendously where it surpassed that of Goku's however he couldn't go ssj once he unlocked it he was now stronger than Goku with the 50x multiplier as his base is greater which gave him the ultimate win against 19 which was a badass win and Vegeta since he's such a chad after losing goes trains and achieves Super Vegeta making himself the strongest fighter yet again until he messed everything up
Wat do u mean he couldn’t go ssj
@@locdogg86 I meant before he went out into space
His intense training methods and survival instinct to surpass Goku and trunks really pushed him to that point.
@@freezasama5802 o ok
@@deckzone3000 it’s confirmed in diazenshu that the ssj transformation gives 50x base power level
A legend in the community. Thanks for all the content. You are the GOAT
Much like their differences in Super - ultra instinct and ultra ego - Vegeta has always seemed to have an edge in sheer will and power. Goku has that Zen thing going for him.
ya which is perfect beerus mentors vegeta now and whis has goku. ...the direction dragonball needed. seperate power routes and they fit the characters perfectly.
Get that DBS crap out of here!
Vegeta was only stronger than Goku when he first turned Super Saiyan. After training in the hyperbolic time chamber, Goku remained light-years ahead of Vegeta in strength, power and overall fighting prowess for the rest of DBZ
I don't know. There's so much speculation and this is one of those things where the writer leaves it open for the audience to interpret themselves. Vegeta often overestimates his power (pride is a big factor) and is surprised when he gets humbled by a stronger opponent. There's no way of knowing who was ahead at this point given Goku was compromised and couldn't be at his best.
Yeah I was thinking when Piccolo says he seems stronger we don’t know if that meant Goku that day or at his peak. Vegeta pushed himself harder but Goku was already far ahead to begin with
While I am not convinced that Vegeta was stronger than Goku during the android saga, since Goku wasn't at his peak during the fight with 19 due to the heart virus, I do think that Vegeta closed the huge gap between them to were they could be equals. Vegeta as a super saiyan was shown clearly stronger than super saiyan Future Trunks, same as super saiyan Goku. Goku could have been able to defeat 19 like Vegeta ultimately did if it wasn't for the heart virus, so Vegeta defeating 19 isn't enough to show that he's stronger than Goku. Even Vegeta saying that he's stronger than Goku isn't entirely reliable because of Vegeta's ego. Vegeta even thought he was strong enough to defeat the androids, but 18 singlehandedly proved him wrong. Piccolo's testimony that Vegeta might be stronger than Goku is more reliable, but I still don't think Vegeta surpassed Goku. He just became Goku's equal, especially since Goku didn't gain much from the 3 year training, while Vegeta gained a lot of strength.
The idea that Goku is better than Vegeta only ever started after Goku came out of the time chamber, and made official only in the Buu saga. Up to that point Goku was only ever stronger than Vegeta do to circumstances such as learning the Kaioken, Zenkai boost Shenanigans, and just so happening to meet the required conditions to become a super saiyan. Not that Goku wasn't awesome, just none of that meant he was better. In fact plain and simply Goku was not better than Vegeta. Vegeta was introduced into the story as a superior fighter that Goku would then have to work hard in order to surpass. After all the circumstances were brushed aside and the playing field was even again it was revealed that Vegeta was still slightly superior. Goku saw this in his sleep and reflected on what he had to do and then followed through with it in the time chamber to finally become the greatest saiyan of them all. Until Gohan lol
Zenkais were something that both had access to and Vegeta consciously used it on Namek as his main crutch to get stronger throughout that arc.
@ssj4ssbgogeta957 I completely agree with that, were you trying to disagree with me or whats going on
Majin Vegeta stated that Goku was the better fighter. Those are the actual facts. You're preaching opinions, and you're entitled to them. But that won't make them true.
@decepticonxhunter4850 You are projecting, you are lying while I am telling the truth. I did not say a single opinion, I analyzed a finite concrete work and stated the factual truth of what the author told to us the reader. Get a life
It's interesting because I agree that Vegeta had an idea of what level Trunks & Goku were at as Super Saiyans and was working to reach that level and then surpass it. Kinda reminds me of what Trunks said after leaving the time chamber the first time. He mentioned that Vegeta passed the threshold of SS1 only a few weeks after their training started but insisted that he continue to push further until he was satisfied.
Makes you wonder how the fight with Semi-Perfect Cell would've went if Vegeta had pulled a Frieza and instantly went to throw hands the second after gaining a new power. Truth be told, I don't think Super Vegeta would've bodied that form of Cell as easily as he did. He'd either have to work extremely hard to get the win, or he might actually have lost.
It all boiled down to Vegeta only gauging Cell from the strength he sensed from Gingertown along with Kamicolo's energy. At best, Vegeta would've been able to overpower the Android 17, 18, Kamicolo and Gingertown Cell. Not sure if he'd be able to take down Cell post-human absorptions & 16 with ease.
Overall, Vegeta always pushing beyond a certain point until he's satisfied has worked out in his favor!
I think Vegeta may have been slightly more powerful at the beginning of the Android Saga. As to why no one questioned if he were stronger than Goku, maybe they were sick of hearing his boasts. You know like that one guy who goes on and on about how great he is. Or they thought he was full of crap. “Sure, Vegeta. You’re stronger than Goku. Like when you kept going on about how you were a SSJ on Namek then got killed by Frieza….” Vegeta’s pride is simultaneously his greatest strength and his greatest weakness.
I remember there were some fight scenes coming down to the end of goku's and gohan's stay in the tine chamber where goku was running for his life throughout the brief clips.
They would tangle up and teleport, then tangle and teleport, then goku would fly off and gohan would go chasing his butt down. They had some brief closeups on goku's face during those scenes and you could tell he was more "running away from" than "training" gohan at those moments.
There's also 1 more quote you missed, Goku says after he wakes up "if vegeta cant win then neither can I". There's a few videos out there about it but maybe you should make a why Goku is stronger than Vegeta video. Id love to see you bring up how Vegetas you are number 1 speech says almost the exact stuff that Master Roshi says in his speech to krillin and goku near the very beginning of the series.
that only confirms that their powers are similar
@@allmen68 nah Vegeta was definitely stronger at that point... only reason 18 got the best of him because she didn't get tired and didn't rely on energy...she basically just wore him down
@@Marcus_shawn how do you know if Goku wouldn't have been comparable to 18 like vegeta was
@@mr.finesser6303 because we watched him struggle with 19... even before the virus kakarot wasn't winning that fight hell 19 was brushing off every attack...so how was he going to last against 18 who was way stronger than 19?
@@mr.finesser6303 goku wouldn't of done any better than trunks did Even Tien said it
It's simple. It's because something just snapped, something inside of him. He didn't care anymore, he didn't care about being better than Kakarot, he didn't care about being a super saiyan, he didn't care if he lived, he didn't care about anything. And then it happened.
This is one of those instances that I never thought was worth challenging. Everything points to Vegeta being the superior one.
Vegeta's Final flash against Cell must be the most destructive attack in all of DBZ
Agree with you here.
No it wasnt. The warped Kamehameha and the father son Kamehameha did more damage. It isnt even the most destructive in the ark
Really, at times they make it look weaker
@@zenkai4124 we could see a Gigantic beam from space, where father son kamehameha was way thinner.
@@ilyas_elouchihi width doesn't have much to do with how destructive it is
thank you mike
I'm not sure it's that simple. Goku makes a very good point when he leaves the hyperbolictime chamber when he says torture is not the same as training. We can see this in real life. If you spend all your time training and give yourself no time to rest, you don't have good enough gains. Goku gives himself time to rest and to improve. I would argue that even if goku was holding back, his gains should be just as viable as vegetas. They are probably the same as each other. Dbz takes its ques from real martial arts. Goku practices proper technique. Vegeta doesn't.
Maybe when it came to achieving the super saiyan transformation neither of them had technique but after that not only do they have it but vegeta always has more proper technique than goku.
I don’t think Vegeta has sloppy technique per se, I think it comes down to the fact that their martial arts styles are fundamentally different. His mixed martial art is of course far more reliant and built around alien freak power levels, all alien warriors we see in Z are flying and using ki blasts, even the weakest ones. From the Sayians to Friezas empire, we see the major cosmic military forces approach to combat was geared to that ever present threat in their opponents. The techniques/fighting style he learned on planet Vegeta and serving Frieza is going to be far less fleshed out than Goku’s earth based Kung Fu, Karate type style that was developed by humans with no real power level to speak of. Goku has a far more nuanced and expensive array of techniques to choose from in his hand to hand combat and has been shown to be craftier than just about everyone he fights due to his massive arsenal of techniques he’s drilled since childhood.
@@vladimirmendoza2645 when does Vegeta have proper technique?
@@somebeing803 in his workout routine. It's sloppy. You need rest in-between bouts of working out.
@Vladimir Mendoza no. I have no examples of goku using sloppy technique. I'm talking about his workout technique. Not his fighting style.
Hey Mike what website do you use for all your DBZ mangas? I want to start purchasing the mangas digitally but I don’t know which service to go with. Thanks Mike!
When i see Vegeta saying he achieved Super Saiyajin because of the rage he felt towards himself, i just can't help but imagine he did it like TFS Vegeta "I WANNA BE A SUPER SAIYAN I WANNA I WANNA I WANNA 😭😭😭" lol
Lolololol I remember those old tfs episodes
Actually, Goku trained in 150x Earth's gravity and Vegeta trained in 450x Earth's gravity.
I love vegeta
Maybe for the next video, you should talk about Piccolo’s strength compared to the others in the android/cell saga. You’d think Piccolo would be significantly weaker than the super saiyan forms, but after the 3 years of training, he was confident in defeating android 20/Dr. Hero who should be relative, if not stronger than android 19. The same androids who needed to be defeated by the super saiyan transformation.
I already made that video. You can find it here: czcams.com/video/0D2HuXLRJRI/video.html
Here's a request: Why didn't Trunks wish back his family and friends using the Dragonballs from the other timeline?
Because it's not DragonBall Super sadly.
1:10
I always loved when Vegeta scolds Goku like a father would a child whenever Goku does something stupid in a fight lol. I loved that dynamic between them(he did it when Goku spared the Ginyu Force). It's like he's angry whenever Goku does something stupid that ruins the idea he had of him in his head as the perfect rival. Also, I've never read the manga, but it looks like Vegeta has more of a poetic manner of speech in the books. It really suits him. 1:49
Vegeta & Goku have always kept surpassing each other in strength since Vegeta was introduced right up to the Buu saga.
They are viewed as equals in super now. Vegeta will never get the main win because Gokus the main character.
But Vegeta is there to get Goku to keep training and to keep getting stronger.
The hyperbolic time chamber is what widened the gap...Goku got stronger because he trained with Gohan whereas Vegeta was training by himself.. Vegeta and Goku were going back and forth but once Goku and Gohan got out the chamber Vegeta never surpassed him again
Imagine if goku and vegeta trained together in the time chamber, Cell would’ve been toast
Yeah Toriyama did Vegeta dirty lol least kishimoto made naruto stronger at one arc then sasuke in another arc til they was equal after they final fight even tho we know naruto held back
The same thing happened to piccolo. They went back and forth until the time chamber
@@UFunnyLowe then we don't have a show until maybe Buu🤣 they easily go ssj 2
@@ojpickle5923 piccolo surpassed them when he fused with kami..once chambers started getting involved the Saiyans took turns surpassing each other 😂
In fairness, Goku is basically in the middle of a heart attack while fighting the Androids. Not exactly a fair power comparison.
Also, as you said, full power Goku would splatter Piccolo and Gohan, so they definitely have never seen his full power.
Vegeta saying he's stronger doesn't really count for much considering at that point in the series, the last time he claimed that he ended up getting murked by Frieza effortlessly while Goku at least made him put some effort into the fight (before he went Super Saiyan).
Dont ever take Vegeta's word for fact nor Piccolo's
Could you do a video of when the Z fighters learned the first basic Ki blast.
Well 300x and 500x gravity is stronger then 100x and Vegeta wanted it so much he cried to be a super Saiyan
No no no, it's "My heart is pure: pure, unadulterated badass"!
Could you make a video about if Vegeta could’ve beat frieza if Goku or Trunks didn’t show up
He did a lot of push ups and sit up, and he he drank plenty of juice 😂😂😂
The 🐐
@Laughingstock media just to let you are wrong. He only surpassed goku temporarily even during this saga. Toriyama has even said this. Vegeta mentions this during the last battle with Cell. He gets extremely pissed that both Goku and Gohan are so much stronger than he is, and he is a prince. Toriyama has even said countless times that he just used Vegeta to help get Goku over the next hump that he needed to. I have read and watched everything Dragon Ball since the early 90s. I mean everything.
I personally believe it has more to do with their respective fighting styles.. Vegeta uses more knees , elbows, head butts,, etc. While Goku uses defense for his offense.. He parries and uses back fist,, body blows,, leg sweeps,, etc.. All in all I basically think Vegeta’s lack of mercy is what “closes the gap” in their rivalry overall
2:53
I forgot how edgy Vegeta was. God that manga was pure gold as a 12 year old boy.lmfao
what most people dont take into consideration in the debate between who is stronger between goku & vegeta is their base power levels.
for the vast majority of the time in Z, vegetas base power level is stronger than gokus. goku relied heavily of transformations & multipliers all throughout the series to “surpass” vegeta. only on namek was gokus base power level actually stronger than vegetas base power level. (& maybe after the hbtc, which is debatable because goku really mastered the ssj transformation & was able to tap into grade 4 which is a higher multiplier)
the ssj transformation is a 50x base multiplier. by the time vegeta reaches ssj at the beginning of the android arc, his base power level is much higher than gokus because of his intense training at 400x earths gravity. at this point in the series, vegeta has the strongest base power level of all the Z fighters alone. his ssj transformation multiplies that & then puts him well ahead of goku, regardless of the heart virus.
The heart attack is not Goku being weaker. Its literally him dying. Apart from that even Vegeta knew Goku was stronger the whole time. Vegeta was only stronger up till Goku recovered, if even. Even Vegeta was surprised at Gokus ki when he showed half of it to Korin after training with Gohan.
"Pure Unadulterated..Bad Ass."
The one thing I don't get about Vegeta, is that he had this Messiah complex, yet he never brought back his planet and his people.
I really wish we could have seen Goku vs Vegeta in their original super saiyan forms.. 😞
We gotta remember too that Vegeta in base form was way wayyyy weaker than Goku base form during those three years of training. The last fight either of them had in base form was against Frieza and we know how that turned out
No, Vegeta was 2.5 mil and Goku was 3 mil. Weaker but not way weaker. Goku did better because of the Kaioken.
@@bitterthenu7278 Kaioken nearly killed Vegeta Kaioken make a big difference
@@allmen68 what does this comment even mean, and what is the context
Can you make a video about the topic or who is stronger kid buu or buuhan
He has already, and its a stupid question wtf. Regular super buu is infinitely stronger than kid buu
@@bitterthenu7278 its definitely a stupid question I see everyone talking about it
@thatonedbdplayer56 Yeah and its ridiculous. I know the dub made it seem like Ss3 Goku could beat Buuiccolo but even then it shows Buutenks kicking gokus ass so how they think Kid Buu is above even Buuhan is beyond all understanding.
The Z warriors never had a chance to be stronger than 17 &18. Even trunks said these versions of the androids were stronger than his, proving at that time the androids must've been destined to be stronger. Nobody debated if Goku was weaker because nobody at that time was able to measure a super Saiyan strength properly Goku needed Korin to confirm that cell was stronger. if I had to guess i'd say Goku was using maybe 30% of his maximum due to the heart virus.
The dumbest comment ive ever read
Originally I was quite sympathetic to the idea, but I don't find the arguments convincing.
1. Vegeta's statement about surpassing Kakarrot.
Vegeta is not an unbiased source and is known to overestimate himself.
3. Vegeta trained more intensely than Gokuu.
Pushing yourself harder is not necessarily better.
4. Gokuu would not have been able to go at full power with Gohan and Piccolo.
There are several counter-examples to show that such a thing is not necessary. Gokuu also wouldn't be able to with Gohan for a large duration of their time together, yet his growth eclipsed Vegeta's two trips to the RoSaT. Weighted clothes training or similar methods have been used to increase training difficulty to good effect. At King Kai's, Gokuu would achieve great gain (20x+) without an opponent to push himself against and he likely did not spend the entire time doing such training. Etc.
5. Vegeta was able to sense Gokuu's power three years prior.
He sensed a suppressed Gokuu three years prior blocking a sword with a couple of fingers. I can believe him having a good grasp of Trunks' power if Trunks did indeed attack Gokuu seriously, but it's doubtful whether he could accurately measure Gokuu.
6. Visualization, etc.
Besides the fact that this is complete headcanon for how power ups work, image training is a specific ability of a trained martial artist (which Vegeta is not). I don't see a reason to conflate that with a Saiyajin's innate abilities to get stronger after healing.
7. Piccolo's quote regarding Vegeta.
Piccolo is comparing Vegeta to what we, the readers, have seen of Gokuu thus far, which is a weakened Gokuu after being afflicted with the heart virus. It wouldn't make sense for Toriyama to refer to any other version of Gokuu when writing this line of dialog, since it is the only one with in-universe relevance to the narrative he is writing--or even to what he'd be thinking of. Even with this, Toriyama still chose to write a cautious tone to the statement ("seemed") rather than an outright factual statement. Also, whether or not Piccolo does know the full extent of Gokuu's power is up for debate. This especially contradicts number 4, where it was proposed Gokuu couldn't go full power against Piccolo.
8. Vegeta's quote about him being more powerful because he is the prince.
This one is quite confusing. This quote obviously serves the role of setting Vegeta up for his inevitable fall. Vegeta's bravado is a staple of his character and Toriyama's writing, but this instance is doubly so because this prince spiel isn't new; it's a callback to his downfall versus Gokuu before.
9. Trunks thinks Vegeta is more powerful than Gokuu.
By the same token as number 5, Trunks does not know the full extent of Gokuu's power from three years ago. He does not know the full extent of Gokuu's power currently.
How strong would Gohan be in the Android Saga after the 3 Year Timeskip right before 19 & 20 ?
Vegeta's arc with finding the value of training is FAR better than Freeza's arc
Imagine goku mostly leveling up Gohan and piccolo because he wanted to die and train in other world? The ending of cell confirms that a bit and his lack of pushing himself as hard as he could have.
My heart it pure . pure evil to the core
I feel like vegeta was always naturally stronger, but just wasnt smarter and would quickly be eclipsed because of his lack of actual technique, but they play off each other too well to really leave the other in the dust. Really neat dynamic
I am pure.... Pure unadulterated BADASS!!!! loooollll
8:29
Vegeta was watching Goku’s fight against the androids
The Way Vegeta Trained To Achieve His Forms Throughout DBZ Is Completely Contradicted In Gt When He Became SSJ4...Tail Or Not. Loved Gt But It Was Definitely The Goku Show Lol
Vegeta did say pure evil in the Japanese version anime. Not the dub!
I think SSJ Vegeta , SSJ Future Trunks and SSJ Goku where allabout the same during the Android attack but it’s a good chance that Vegeta was slightly stronger than Trunks and Goku because Vegeta didn’t have to train Gohan and Piccolo to catch up him like Goku and he had better training Equipment than Future Trunks but Vegeta is definitely at least tied for being the Strongest Z fighter at this point though if you can consider him a Z fighter at this point of the story because even though he’s married to Bulma at this point in time he still has some evil in his heart at this point of the story with was revealed in the Buu Saga
Wait, in that panel where Vegeta says "So THIS is a super saiyan (watching Goku and F. Trunks)...." didn't Vegeta see a Super Saiyan for the first time (Goku) on Namek shortly before he got teleported to Earth? Or was that anime-only content?
Anime only
Perfect time
To be fair; Vegeta for the most part has always had a higher base power level than Goku. It was Goku's training and techniques that usually put him above Vegeta. So a Vegeta that beat himself up in the same way Goku did, but for 3 years, THEN turning super saiyan could be stronger than Goku at the time. But as I said befroe GOku';s training method's usually outstrip Vegeta's. Goku found that the old training methods wasn't as effective anymore, so he decided to focus on mastering Super Saiyan, something that Vegeta didn't figure out until after Goku did it. Vegeta didn't quite grasp training in the same manner as Goku until much later in season.
You know Saiyan Scholar? He seems to hate Vegeta, while you like him?
IDK both channels seem similar. Just came to mind.
Every intervention Goku got from god, Vegeta did 100 pushups, Sit-ups and drunk plenty of juice
Virginia! Hanging out with little boys in spandex, I see!
I mean look how hard Vegeta was hitting the gym... Hard work does show results. But yeah later on i suppose Goku's natural talent would later spike again
I've always wondered why the Senzu beans didn't work, because as a kid the way the anime plays out, with Gero saying "We are well aware of the restorative properties of the Senzu beans, but we will not allow you the time to recover" kind of implies that all Goku needed was time for the Senzu bean to kick in. Then there's a bit of crappy exposition about how "he needs the heart medicine". As a kid I was left confused, did Goku just need more time and not to get pummelled for the Senzu to work, or were the others right when they said he NEEDED the heart virus medicine? It's never really made 100% clear in the anime. I forget how many Senzu beans they had left at this point but it seems like they should have given Yamcha another bean to give Goku when they got home, just to see if it would work in the absence of being slammed around by android 19.
ya senzu cant cure diseases... so he needed the medicine future trunks gave him. senzu cures injuries and restores ur energy.
Gero didn't know what Goku was suffering from. Senzu beans have never been shown to cure an illness
Trunks mentioned to goku that there's no cure for the heart virus he'll catch in the DBZ timeline, the only cure they had is from the future which Trunks gave to Goku.
I don’t know if there’s anyway for us to really know… on another point of hand it almost seems implied that Vegeta, trunks, and Goku are all equal…
I suppose there’s certain things you can take to assume that Vegeta is the strongest… but I think it’s not actually by much if at all.
Now he is telling about the true manga which this is the real authentic variation
The only thing i think is completely stupid based on vegetas high iq combat ability is he went into the chamber came out ssj grade 2 knew not to go to the bulky grade 3 and goku walks out tells him the secret to the form and vegeta goes back into the chamber and comes out weaker now based on vegetas personality he obviously wouldn't have copied goku and gohan but he definitely would've tried to find another method to get stronger than goku especially after gauging his lvl upon goku leaving the chamber but vegeta comes out the 2nd time barely improved
He literally cried his way into SS kek
This is y I always had a problem with goku being stronger after 1 yr in the time chamber.
I alawys thought this was pretty clear-cut. Piccolo (who trained with Goku) says *twice* that Vegeta likely surpassed Goku; that should be enough confirmation.
So Broly DID one shot the South Galaxy! Thanks Mike!
Cell saga, no Goku was clearly stronger because he completely mastered super Saiyan in the hyperbolic time chamber. In the Android Saga, however, the argument could be made that Vegeta was more powerful than Goku.
So I think you make a few good points about Vegeta being stronger than Goku. I would say for sure that when Goku first transformed in Namek yes Vegeta is than Goku and even Trunks, simply because Trunks really couldn't hold his own against Androids 17 and 18 in the prime timeline vs his own where he has some chance. But as far as Vegeta saying he is stronger than Goku himself maybe he's going off of seeing him on Namek or up against Trunks but Vegeta has a really bad ego and even Piccolo brings it up after 18 beats him so I'm not sure Vegeta himself is a good indicator. The issue is for Goku to train and not get that much stronger I just can't see it. Another point that has to be brought up is how strong Piccolo got from his training by the time the androids arrive he is at least as strong as a Super Sayian given he is able to go toe to toe with Dr. Gero/android 20. Piccolo is a good measurer of people's power levels as during the fight with 18 he is able to see that Vegeta wasn't going to win and having gone up against Dr. Gero once Piccolo was confident he could win, but when looking at Vegeta compared to Goku at this point Piccolo says he might be stronger because he's just not sure. Being a fan of Vegeta I'd like to think he is stronger but the only time I know this happens for sure is when Vegeta exits the Hyperbolic Time Chamber with question for the Semi Perfect Cell fight he's stronger than Goku every other time here we just don't know.
I want to be a super saiyan I wanna I want I wanna I wanna I wanna I wanna
I find this to be a rather obnoxious discussion point because people seem to equate being "stronger" to having higher numbers in a scouter, but the way I notice, Vegita was always stronger power wise, but Goku was always a better fighter.
To Vegita this is enough for him to feel below goku when fighting, but believes he's more powerful after traing ONLY his body (aka his power level) in the gravity chamber.
Goku always focus in his fighting prowess, while Vegita on his raw power.
Now it's up to our own interpretation, what actually means "stronger".
Is it having higher ki? Then Vegita wins.
Is it fighting better? Then Goku wins.
Plus Goku says after he gets healed from the heart virus that Vegeta couldn't beat them he couldn't either
Always thought during the Android saga vegeta was a size 19 hahaha
He basically had the pain of lost of his pride not being able to transform and surpass goku .
The only time Vegeta was stronger than Goku during the Android/ Cell saga was when Vegeta came out of the Hyperbolic Time Chamber first. I would say Goku and Vegeta might have been on the same level when 19 and Gero appeared.
How strong do you think Vegeta would have gotten if his planet wasn’t destroyed? Since it happened when he was a child it’s safe to assume his training stopped as well. I doubt he learned anything from Nappa. So if Vegeta grew up with his planet and had access too sayian if there is any. I think he could have became or close to SSj
Now I'm wondering what led to Krillin thinking you had to be pure heart to be super Saiyan, he should know Goku was angry as hell when he became one, and I don't think Goku himself outright stated you had to be pure of heart, so where did Krillin get this logic from
Even as a Vegeta fan, I see we at the point of capping for views/clicks now….
Nah Vegeta is like a Size 8 I’m guessin 😂😂
vegeta became stronger simply because:
this was vegeta's first REAL training in dbz. Akin to how frieza trained for the 1st time in the return of F movie. Vegeta, being a natural saiyan prodigy, naturally got stronger than goku.
But of course, once vegeta trained, he never learnt about OVER-training or cooperating with others, which is what hinders him when training in the room of spirit and time
Because he is Vegeta and goku wants to be Vegeta but he can’t be vegeta Because Vegeta is Vegeta.
Where do you think future trunks went